bug: 1 title: Microsoft has a majority market share date-reported: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 00:00:00 -0000 date-updated: Wed, 10 Apr 2024 13:43:55 -0000 reporter: Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl) duplicate-of: duplicates: attachments: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1/+attachment/26604/+files/OEMpatch text/plain https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1/+attachment/98109/+files/recent-on-ms.jpg image/jpeg https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1/+attachment/115699/+files/dell-linux.patch text/plain https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1/+attachment/139437/+files/BUG-001-BuenosAires-2007-09-11_09.14.52.Palm.Treo_680.jpg image/jpeg https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1/+attachment/259968/+files/unnamed text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1/+attachment/286772/+files/unnamed text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1/+attachment/287525/+files/unnamed text/html; charset=UTF-8 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1/+attachment/293700/+files/unnamed text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1/+attachment/300494/+files/unnamed text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1/+attachment/300895/+files/unnamed text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1/+attachment/342412/+files/04092008%28001%29.jpg text/plain https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1/+attachment/360967/+files/Linux.gif image/gif https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1/+attachment/595221/+files/Press_Dossier_iUnika.pdf application/pdf; name="Press_Dossier_iUnika.pdf" https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1/+attachment/2821126/+files/New_Owner_Notes_Template.txt text/plain https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1/+attachment/3652944/+files/Ubuntu_has_a_majority_Chinese_market_share text/plain https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1/+attachment/3665949/+files/currys1.pdf application/pdf https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1/+attachment/3665951/+files/currys1.pdf application/pdf https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1/+attachment/3665953/+files/currys3.pdf application/pdf https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1/+attachment/3665958/+files/currys_a.pdf application/pdf https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1/+attachment/3665982/+files/currys_ceo_1.pdf application/pdf https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1/+attachment/3665983/+files/currys_ceo_resp.pdf application/pdf https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1/+attachment/3665985/+files/currys_reply_2.pdf application/pdf https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1/+attachment/3665989/+files/currys_resp_1.pdf application/pdf https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1/+attachment/3665994/+files/currys_resp_2.pdf application/pdf https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1/+attachment/3665995/+files/kodak2.pdf application/pdf patches: tags: canonical eoan iso-testing jammy kinetic lunar mantic microsoft noble package-qa-testing ville subscribers: Sverre Johansen (sverre-johansen) Sivan Greenberg (sivan) Cyphase (cyphase) Fredric Solstad (ohdung) Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl) Irvin Piraman (ippiraman) Alfred J.Tims (t1nt1n) Jonathan Carter (jonathan) Lloyd Dewolf (lloydde) Christy (cjbarnes) Nal (nalshdat) laggerzero (laggerzero) makgun (mustafa-akgun) Khandakar Mujahidul Islam (suzan) Ion (ionlng) Paul Flint (flint) Justizin (launchpad-jryan) hellfire (hellfire7-gmail) chrisblack (chris-wccp) Adrien Cordonnier (adrien-cordonnier) gtonic (tom-geiger) Gaurav Mishra (gauravtechie) Chris Rose (chris-vault5) Yao Wei (medicalwei) HighlandMagic (highlandmagic) David Trask (dtrask) Peter Antoniac (pan1nx) Loïc Corbasson (cnb) randyleepublic (public-randolphmlee) Nemes Ioan Sorin (nemes-sorin) Andy Brook (javahollic) R. Pereira Braga (rpereira) Conrad Knauer (atheoi) DA_lpn (dee-ayy) João Cruz (jalrnc) Leandro Gómez (leogg) Martin Eisenhardt (martin-eisenhardt) David Vasta (david-vasta) David Vasta (ubuntu-davidandkelly) Cesar (redspicom) john (johnvuspam) Alex Lowe (lengau) jawahar (ijawahar) Jesus Gamio (jgamio) DarkMageZ (darkmagez) David Bryan Sears (davidb-sears) Ajit Hatti (ajit-hattti) Jonathan Marsaud (zic) Nicola Rosati (supernaicol) Jan Kaláb (pitel) Nick_Hill (nick-nickhill) Adrien Cunin (adri2000) David Grenar (david-grenar) Ian Malone (ibmalone) John Pyper (jpyper) Erico Schuch (eschuch) D. 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Craig (dlc) Ramchandra Apte (ramchandra.apte) Stephan Springer (geryon) Alan Pope 🍺🐧🐱 🦄 (popey) Nithin Mukundan (proxypanther) Christian Andersson (christian-ld-andersson) theoras (theoras) hexafraction (rarkenin) Terry Jones (terryjones1983) Jeffrey (jeffrey) jessabella (jessabellabacia) agenkin (agenkin-p) Iordan Iordanov (iiordanov) Haneef Mubarak (haneefmubarak) Mozaic (mozaic) Dave Stroud (bigdavesr) Alexander Strekalov (iakrevetko) pahnin (pahninsd) Aminda Suomalainen (mikaela) XtoF Pernod (xtof-pernod) oscar.carlberg@hotmail.com (oscar-carlberg) George (george-labuschagne-gmail) Dmitry Ershov (edvice) Tim (avfnoxnj) See (mikadix) Julian Clark (julian.clark) Jorge Morais (jorgemorais) Jorgealda (jorgealda115) Tom (tjkirch) tuxar (tuxar) Achilles12 (cvg1-cool-man) BenX (benx) Marek Stasiak (marecki) Sheila Hadley (hadshe) kovax (kovax3) Angel Guzman Maeso (shakaran) Raul Dias (rsd) Anthony Wong (anthonywong) senya (senya) Önder (onder.bakirtas) Kris Borer (kborer) Yannik Völker (yannikv) Paulo Andres Jara Santibanez (paulojarasantibanez) Gramler (maxf) ledzepjes (ledzepjes) Chidananda Sahoo (chidanandsahoo8) Mark Terranova (markdude) Leslie Zhai (xiangzhai83) Ubuntu Review Team (ubuntu-reviewers) Alastair Gilfillan (alastair-a) hasi (whynot-nurfuerspam) Phoebe Cuthbert (phoebe-c) Hypnoiku (hypnoiku) Barry Drake (b-drake) TT Mooney (ttm) Patricio Carreño Mancilla (patriciologico) Vladimir Meremyanin (v-stiff) Roman Tsukanov (tsukanov) Seunghyo Chun (seunghyo-chun) Xavier Guillot (valeryan-24) Darik Horn (dajhorn) Felix Haller (felixhaller) Jeet (gour-jitendrasingh) Kevin and Jessica Havens (jessica-bentley2011) Morten (morten-hindsholm) Socrates (socrates-wei) William Paul Liggett (junktext-0) Parin Porecha (parinporecha) Benjamin Heil (benjamin-heil) Artem (artem4) JackT (anonymous352) Robert Sajdok (ris) exmen@mail.bg (exmen) Dynamicwork (dynamicwork) vpshastry (vrn-shastry) Jerome Warnier (jwarnier) mohican (mohican) rickard.b.hansson@gmail.com (rickard-b-hansson) Scott Ritchie (scottritchie) Matthias Klose (doko) রিং (toshazed) Michel-Ekimia (michel.ekimia) brian russell (vagemulo) Eddie J Carswell II (afrothundr) Danilo Schembri (danilo-schembri) patop (patop) fred adcock (adcockfred) bam (mybigspam) allen brooks (albrx2) themusicgod1 (themusicgod1) Hannie Zechariah Bunagan (ri2k18) improgrammer (wanxiangqian) JohnWashington (ubuntu-johnwash) Saptarshi Roy (sroypc) OEM Solutions Group: Engineers (oem-solutions-engineers) Sergei (kh-sergei) Hon Ming Hui (hm-hui) task: clubdistro status: Fix Committed date-created: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 01:03:40 -0000 date-left-new: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 01:07:17 -0000 date-confirmed: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:06:34 -0000 date-triaged: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:33:58 -0000 date-inprogress: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:33:58 -0000 date-fix-committed: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:33:58 -0000 date-left-closed: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:06:34 -0000 reporter: Manatsawin Hanmongkolchai (whs) importance: Critical assignee: milestone: task: compscibuntu status: Fix Committed date-created: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 21:19:26 -0000 date-confirmed: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 05:23:47 -0000 date-triaged: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:05 -0000 date-assigned: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 21:20:33 -0000 date-inprogress: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:05 -0000 date-fix-committed: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:05 -0000 date-left-closed: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 05:23:47 -0000 reporter: Olexandr Zanichkovsky (ozanichkovsky) importance: Critical assignee: Computer Science Ubuntu Bugs (compscibuntu-bugs) milestone: task: df-libreoffice status: Fix Committed date-created: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 19:20:11 -0000 date-left-new: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:11 -0000 date-confirmed: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:11 -0000 date-triaged: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:11 -0000 date-inprogress: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:11 -0000 date-fix-committed: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:11 -0000 reporter: NeonXP (neonxp) importance: Undecided assignee: milestone: task: dnr status: Fix Committed date-created: Tue, 10 May 2011 18:13:05 -0000 date-left-new: Wed, 11 May 2011 06:37:26 -0000 date-confirmed: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:18 -0000 date-triaged: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:18 -0000 date-inprogress: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:18 -0000 date-fix-committed: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:18 -0000 date-left-closed: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:18 -0000 reporter: Dylan Borg (borgdylan) importance: Undecided assignee: milestone: task: dylandotnet status: Fix Committed date-created: Tue, 10 May 2011 18:12:38 -0000 date-left-new: Wed, 11 May 2011 06:38:08 -0000 date-confirmed: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:27 -0000 date-triaged: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:27 -0000 date-inprogress: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:27 -0000 date-fix-committed: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:27 -0000 date-left-closed: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:27 -0000 reporter: Dylan Borg (borgdylan) importance: Undecided assignee: milestone: task: easypeasy-project status: Fix Committed date-created: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 02:03:44 -0000 date-left-new: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 09:47:52 -0000 date-confirmed: Sat, 02 Jan 2016 16:10:30 -0000 date-triaged: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:38 -0000 date-assigned: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 09:47:53 -0000 date-inprogress: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:38 -0000 date-fix-committed: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:38 -0000 date-left-closed: Sat, 02 Jan 2016 16:10:30 -0000 reporter: Thomas Misund (misund) importance: Critical assignee: Jon Ramvi (ramvi) milestone: task: ichthux status: Fix Committed date-created: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 18:39:17 -0000 date-confirmed: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:42 -0000 date-triaged: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:42 -0000 date-assigned: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 18:39:48 -0000 date-inprogress: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:42 -0000 date-fix-committed: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:42 -0000 date-left-closed: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:42 -0000 reporter: Raphaël Pinson (raphink) importance: Critical assignee: Raphaël Pinson (raphink) milestone: task: jl status: Fix Committed date-created: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 21:59:34 -0000 date-confirmed: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:49 -0000 date-triaged: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:49 -0000 date-assigned: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:55 -0000 date-inprogress: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:49 -0000 date-fix-committed: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:49 -0000 date-left-closed: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:34:49 -0000 reporter: Julian Andres Klode (juliank) importance: Critical assignee: jean-pierre charras (jp-charras) milestone: task: libreoffice status: In Progress date-created: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 12:10:33 -0000 date-left-new: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 12:11:08 -0000 date-confirmed: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 12:11:08 -0000 date-triaged: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 12:11:08 -0000 date-assigned: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 12:11:08 -0000 date-inprogress: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 12:11:08 -0000 reporter: Björn Michaelsen (bjoern-michaelsen) importance: Undecided assignee: Björn Michaelsen (bjoern-michaelsen) milestone: task: linux status: New date-created: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 18:49:15 -0000 reporter: Aidan Fell (islandmonkey) importance: Undecided assignee: milestone: task: linuxmint status: Fix Released date-created: Wed, 03 Aug 2011 15:57:12 -0000 date-left-new: Wed, 03 Aug 2011 15:57:33 -0000 date-confirmed: Wed, 03 Aug 2011 15:57:33 -0000 date-triaged: Wed, 03 Aug 2011 15:57:33 -0000 date-inprogress: Wed, 03 Aug 2011 15:57:33 -0000 date-closed: Sat, 03 Feb 2018 16:14:02 -0000 date-fix-committed: Sat, 03 Feb 2018 16:14:02 -0000 date-fix-released: Sat, 03 Feb 2018 16:14:02 -0000 reporter: Albert Pool (albertpool) importance: Undecided assignee: milestone: task: linuxos status: In Progress date-created: Thu, 27 May 2010 19:18:14 -0000 date-left-new: Thu, 27 May 2010 19:21:11 -0000 date-confirmed: Thu, 27 May 2010 19:21:11 -0000 date-triaged: Thu, 27 May 2010 19:21:11 -0000 date-inprogress: Thu, 27 May 2010 19:21:11 -0000 reporter: Matthew Carroll (mcarroll779) importance: Critical assignee: milestone: task: neobot status: New date-created: Sun, 26 May 2013 13:25:41 -0000 reporter: Removed by request (removed3995887) importance: Undecided assignee: milestone: task: novabot-xaiml status: New date-created: Sun, 26 May 2013 13:25:00 -0000 reporter: Removed by request (removed3995887) importance: Undecided assignee: milestone: task: openoffice status: In Progress date-created: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 04:58:44 -0000 date-confirmed: Thu, 27 May 2010 19:37:59 -0000 date-triaged: Thu, 27 May 2010 19:37:59 -0000 date-assigned: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 09:59:37 -0000 date-inprogress: Thu, 27 May 2010 19:37:59 -0000 date-left-closed: Thu, 27 May 2010 19:37:59 -0000 reporter: Alex Lowe (lengau) importance: Undecided assignee: maviya (lh-maviya) milestone: task: reactos-core status: Incomplete date-created: Wed, 14 Dec 2016 16:22:36 -0000 date-left-new: Wed, 14 Dec 2016 16:24:40 -0000 date-confirmed: Wed, 14 Dec 2016 16:24:40 -0000 date-triaged: Wed, 14 Dec 2016 16:24:40 -0000 date-inprogress: Wed, 14 Dec 2016 16:24:40 -0000 date-incomplete: Wed, 14 Dec 2016 16:24:40 -0000 date-fix-committed: Wed, 14 Dec 2016 16:24:40 -0000 date-fix-released: Wed, 14 Dec 2016 16:24:40 -0000 reporter: Erkin Alp Güney (erkinalp9035) importance: Undecided assignee: milestone: task: tabuntu status: Invalid date-created: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 02:29:59 -0000 date-assigned: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 02:36:36 -0000 date-closed: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 23:35:30 -0000 reporter: Tina Russell (tinarussell) importance: Critical assignee: Tina Russell (tinarussell) milestone: task: tivion status: Invalid date-created: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:36:38 -0000 date-left-new: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:38:50 -0000 date-assigned: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:38:50 -0000 date-closed: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:20:43 -0000 reporter: Angel Guzman Maeso (shakaran) importance: Critical assignee: Angel Guzman Maeso (shakaran) milestone: task: tv-player status: Invalid date-created: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 11:46:00 -0000 date-left-new: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 23:33:51 -0000 date-closed: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 23:33:51 -0000 reporter: Mario Restuccia (linkxvi) importance: Undecided assignee: milestone: task: ubuntu-my status: In Progress date-created: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:54:52 -0000 date-left-new: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:56:42 -0000 date-confirmed: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:56:42 -0000 date-triaged: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:56:42 -0000 date-assigned: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:56:42 -0000 date-inprogress: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:56:42 -0000 reporter: MFauzilkamil Zainuddin (apogee) importance: Critical assignee: MFauzilkamil Zainuddin (apogee) milestone: task: ubuntu-unity status: New date-created: Sat, 30 May 2020 07:57:09 -0000 date-assigned: Sat, 30 May 2020 07:57:30 -0000 reporter: Rudra Saraswat (rs2009) importance: Critical assignee: Rudra Saraswat (rs2009) milestone: task: wine status: Confirmed date-created: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 18:12:19 -0000 reporter: Mathew Hodson (mhodson) watch: https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10000 importance: Wishlist assignee: milestone: task: ubuntu status: Fix Released date-created: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 16:40:21 -0000 date-confirmed: Sun, 22 May 2011 17:45:31 -0000 date-triaged: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 04:18:01 -0000 date-inprogress: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 04:18:01 -0000 date-closed: Thu, 30 May 2013 10:38:56 -0000 date-fix-committed: Thu, 30 May 2013 10:38:56 -0000 date-fix-released: Thu, 30 May 2013 10:38:56 -0000 date-left-closed: Sun, 22 May 2011 17:45:31 -0000 reporter: Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl) importance: Critical assignee: milestone: task: archlinux status: New date-created: Sat, 14 May 2011 02:56:30 -0000 date-left-new: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 17:57:08 -0000 reporter: tacticalbread (tacticalbread) importance: Undecided assignee: milestone: task: baltix status: Confirmed date-created: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 12:39:27 -0000 date-confirmed: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 18:54:09 -0000 date-assigned: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 12:39:27 -0000 date-left-closed: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 18:54:09 -0000 reporter: Mantas Kriaučiūnas (mantas) importance: High assignee: milestone: task: debian status: In Progress date-created: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 09:19:28 -0000 date-confirmed: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 08:07:42 -0000 date-triaged: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 03:34:51 -0000 date-inprogress: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 03:34:51 -0000 reporter: 太和 (tayhe) importance: Undecided assignee: milestone: task: fedora status: Confirmed date-created: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:07:07 -0000 date-left-new: Sat, 21 Sep 2013 19:12:28 -0000 date-confirmed: Sat, 21 Sep 2013 19:12:28 -0000 reporter: Erkin Alp Güney (erkinalp9035) importance: Undecided assignee: milestone: task: fluxbuntu status: Confirmed date-created: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 06:41:00 -0000 date-left-new: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 04:00:01 -0000 date-confirmed: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 04:00:01 -0000 reporter: lopho (lopho) importance: Undecided assignee: milestone: task: gentoo status: New date-created: Wed, 10 Apr 2024 13:43:55 -0000 reporter: Erkin Alp Güney (erkinalp9035) importance: Undecided assignee: milestone: task: opensuse status: In Progress date-created: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:32:47 -0000 date-left-new: Thu, 27 May 2010 21:00:21 -0000 date-confirmed: Thu, 27 May 2010 21:00:21 -0000 date-triaged: Thu, 27 May 2010 21:00:21 -0000 date-inprogress: Thu, 27 May 2010 21:00:21 -0000 reporter: beyecixramd (beyecixramd) importance: Undecided assignee: milestone: task: tilix status: Incomplete date-created: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 14:09:30 -0000 date-left-new: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 08:25:35 -0000 date-confirmed: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 08:25:35 -0000 date-triaged: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 08:25:35 -0000 date-inprogress: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 08:25:35 -0000 date-incomplete: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 08:25:35 -0000 date-fix-committed: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 08:25:35 -0000 date-fix-released: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 08:25:35 -0000 reporter: Ilia Bazliancov (ilia-bulgra) importance: High assignee: milestone: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5161760673932583939==" MIME-Version: 1.0 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See Mark's closure comment here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/c= omments/1834 ------ Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to all." "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software gives e= veryone the freedom to use it however they want and share with whoever they= like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the spectrum it enable= s the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective experience and expe= rtise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the other, we are able t= o give access to essential software for those who couldn=E2=80=99t otherwis= e afford it =E2=80=93 an advantage that=E2=80=99s keenly felt by individual= s and organisations all over the world." =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0* http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/= our-philosophy Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and concentrates control over the technology which powers our society into the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious anti- features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic practices. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. Steps to repeat: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A01. Visit a local PC store. =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A02. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary= software. What happens: Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre- installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operating system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be proprietary. What should happen: A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0* http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0* http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guide= lines =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0* http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alexandru Bradescu-Popa (alexbradescv) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 01:13:21 -0000 Message-Id: <20041231011321.10292.48937.malone@macquarie.warthogs.hbd.com> I am in 97% agree with us but, let's be fair and tell all that: 1. All the PC's for sale shoud be clean and, when I go to buy it, to decide= what I want to have and the store to install it for me. 2. Ubuntu shoud be marketed in his way (the amazing way). It's an serious O= S user-friendly, but, like all in his gang (well almost all distros) not id= iot-friendly. 3. Totally agree with just one adnotation: The user itself must be upgrade = it. :-))) Here, in Romania, only the big magazines are selling the PC'es with windoze preinstaled, the little ones are selling their systems with Linux (various distros) but installed in a manner that makes the computer useless. :-)) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark W. Tomlinson (mark-tomlinson) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 02:04:14 -0000 Message-Id: <20050226020414.10657.15136.malone@macquarie.warthogs.hbd.com> Easily reproduceable in Southern California. I recently visited 3 different computer stores and could not find a single system running a free and open operating system. At one location, when I attempted to boot an Ubuntu LiveCD, I was asked to leave the premises! Shocking...I think the severity level very well could be raised on this one. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Cyphase (cyphase) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 22:18:01 -0000 Message-Id: <20050819221801.24581.88251.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I was able to reproduce this problem in an average of 85% of the cases. Seeing as this flaw concerns over ~85% of the worlds computer users, I think it should be given the highest severity rating. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: magilla (admin-seport) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:35:43 -0000 Message-Id: <20050921113543.3128.89049.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> This bug is extremely prevelant in Australia We may need aid packages! My status: Currently working on bugfix --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Fredric Solstad (ohdung) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 19:48:20 -0000 Message-Id: <20051005194827.16539.69837.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> This bug is dangerously widespread in Sweden as well. My current status: Working on bugfix --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: seb-open2 (seb-open2) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 06:50:23 -0000 Message-Id: <20051006065023.16539.53033.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> In Belgium the bug is extremely widespread, so much that people don't see it as a bug anymore and accept it as a fact of life... Must fix... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jarek Zgoda (jzgoda) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 07:26:35 -0000 Message-Id: <20051006072635.16539.3964.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> In Poland this bug is not as significant as elsewhere, as most of ready-mad= e computers are sold with FreeDOS or some flavour of Linux (Aurox and Mandr= iva predominantly). The only exception are the laptops, where only HP and A= cer sell notebooks without Microsoft software preinstalled. Maybe this is because in Poland we aren't as rich as people in other countr= ies? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Lam (lam-lac) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 15:33:49 -0000 Message-Id: <20051006153349.16375.84294.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I strongly disagree with Jarek. Of course, Poles are poor. It's true we buy computers with DOS (but rather DR-DOS to make it more "legal") or even Linux, but let's face the facts - the first thing people do on their new computers is installing pirated Windows copies. So the bug is even more significant, only not so obviously seen in PC stores. More significant because elsewhere (in more "civilised" countries) people can afford to buy Windows, only we know they pay money which then is used to stop innovation in software (among other evil things), but in Poland people are not only making market for Windows (use illegaly at home, then make your boss buy it at the office, because Windows is what you want to work on), but also stealing software (which is not right even if for some reasons we don't like the software or company in question). In case of Windows, Microsoft is silently agreeing to steal it (due to reasons mentioned earlier), but it creates the wrong assumption in users' minds (that it's OK to steal software at home, because we can't afford it). What people doesn't _realize_ is the fact that all of their computer work can be done with free software. I'm not talking about proffessionals using some bizzarre advanced tools. I'm talking about people using computers to browse web, send e-mail, talk to friends and print few pages a day at work. So this is the bugfix - end user education. Working on it :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alexandre Otto Strube (surak) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 23:55:28 -0000 Message-Id: <20051006235528.16539.3200.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Here in Brazil there is a manufacturer which is starting to distribute a custom Ubuntu as its default operating system option! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Zeus (zeussama) Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 00:21:12 -0000 Message-Id: <20051007002112.16375.7227.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Here in Indonesia the bug is very serious widespreaded. We trying hard to fix the bug. Couple months ago, Microsoft Indonesia sweeped all internet cafe that using illegal copy of Windows, after that moment most of internet cafe using Linux as it's operating system. It's a good start to introducing Linux to Indonesian. Now, most of Computers store installed Linux in newly build computers (including laptop). --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: abdulmueid (abdul-mueid) Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 12:07:45 -0000 Message-Id: <20051007120745.14682.96509.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> In Mozambique, Africa computers are not so widespread, let alone Windows or= Ubuntu. All the computer shops that I know have Windows pre-installed on i= t (mostly pirated). Linux is only known to ISP's and companies that need a = fileserver. The bug hasnt got a stronghold here yet since there aren't as many computer= s. A little help from outside might just stop the bug before it can infest = everywhere. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Sekt fault (the-pulse) Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 15:59:24 -0000 Message-Id: <20051007155924.14682.15658.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I think this bug has been introduced by a design mistake concerning the function create_software_industry(). It should have a variable parameter list rather than a sole pcompany attribute. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Lloyd Hardy (11811) Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 13:13:11 -0000 Message-Id: <20051008131311.14682.39557.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Until someone starts talking to Microsoft users, Ubuntu will never be in the high street. Talk to hosting companies and it'll be in hosting companies. *Newsflash: The general public don't use hosting companies* If we do not market to a wider audience, market opinion will never swing in our favour. The most you can get is what you ask for - you will never be given nore. If you actually want to do something instead of sittng around and complaining, get the debate: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=3D73132 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Lloyd Hardy (11811) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:59:00 -0000 Message-Id: <20051011215900.14138.49560.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Scrub that - join the marketing team: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?q?Jo=C3=A3o_Pio_=28joao-pio=29?= Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:16:37 -0000 Message-Id: <20051014151637.9393.47895.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> This bug is especially evident in Portugal. Most computer stores are barely= aware anything not related to windows. Most large computer store atendants will look strangelly if you ask them an= ything about linux. That or they will say that store does not support Linux= at all. Don't fool yourselves.=20 Most Computer stores in my country sell counterfit copies of windows, and e= ven tho most stores make you pay for fake goods no one cares about that, no= t even microsoft. Babies grow up spoon fed by windows and they will one day= be spoon fed windows adults. If at all possible this bug could have to do with the inability, or disconfort in most peoples mind that seems to tell them that Microsoft windows works and Linux might not. There should be a Forum in which people would put their success stories abo= ut what they installed and how. What is supported and what isn't. This is m= issing in practicly all distros I've seen. We in the linux world must make sure people can find out if their computer = works in Ubuntu. Marketing needs to be planned. If you market your solution just because you= have it, then if you fail your image is burnt. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Theo (launchpad-flame) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:53:38 -0000 Message-Id: <20051018095338.18604.42636.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> My little girl is six years old and spends hours on the computer playing educational games. Unfortunately the games she is interested in are only available on Microsoft - so as long as the suppliers of such software do not have the motivation to supply for the linux market the bug will perpetuate. That said, my little boy will be getting a motherboard, chassis, power supply, hard disk, cd/dvd drive and a linux cd when he turns six :-) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Boris de Laage (bbloup) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:27:12 -0000 Message-Id: <20051018162712.18604.40470.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I can reproduce it too, in France, in either small shops & big supermarkets. I'm working on a bugfix for several years, with many, many people. Maybe this one will take some time to hunt. But I feel we're on the way. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Shane Volpe (shanevolpe) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:34:30 -0000 Message-Id: <20051019123430.6466.34396.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I was able to repeat this bug in rural western Pennsylvania (USA) as well. Furthermore we have public schools that have not one open-source program installed on their computers! I know there are open source projects out there for schools but is there an= open source how-to or step-by-step program for integrating open source pro= grams into a public school system? Its great to have the software but we need a way to educate the educators o= n how to implement and use the software! We should also have a how-to attack plan: This would cover how someone (like me, an open source advocate) approaches a local school about using open source. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Adam A. (musicman2059) Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:22:54 -0000 Message-Id: <20051020172254.6857.47662.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> There's only one thing I have to say about this bug: "lol" --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Dan Watkins (oddbloke) Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 05:37:01 -0000 Message-Id: <20051023053701.20781.33122.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I was able to reproduce in the UK. In fact, in one instance, I couldn't even get a PC with a blank HDD, nevermind with Linux on! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jerome S. Gotangco (jsgotangco) Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 07:16:24 -0000 Message-Id: <20051031071625.29832.73093.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> There is a big chance for the asian market to squash this bug. We can actally buy HP and IBM laptops with no Operating systems. Linux is currently making the news (along with Ubuntu) and UNDP-APDIP initiatives like the IOSN are helping to fix this bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: PDT (venpandita) Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 12:31:08 -0000 Message-Id: <20051101123108.30348.57211.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I am able to reprodce it in Burma --- a South-East Asia country known for its main opposition leader and Nobel laureate, Daw Aung San Suu Kyi. Our country has refused to sign the international copyright and patent laws up to now. So it is perfectly legal to use pirated software!(Mostly MS Windows and related products) Even MS, with its enormous legal team, cannot sue us! There is almost no software industry here. PC clones are assembled and sold with pirated Windows, and any popular software you name, pre- installed by hardware vendors, who also undertake the responsibility of Windows help desk. All other software maintenance is done by users themseves by using manuals (pirated copies again!) and learning from private software courses. However, things must change sooner or later. At the time when the International IP laws come into effective here, all computers in Burma would grind to a halt since very few would be able to afford license fees. Who would help us to boot our computers at that time? Ubuntu, I hope. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: B Gates (udo-hoerhold) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 14:37:07 -0000 Message-Id: <20051104143707.24057.27721.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> As far as I am concerned, this behavior works as expected. It should be marked as a feature, not a bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jonathan Carter (jonathan) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 20:42:23 -0000 Message-Id: <20051105204223.18901.44494.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> If Steve Balmer can vow to kill Google, then I'm equally entitled to kill Microsoft. I will commit whatever free time I have to improve Ubuntu, and I won't rest until this bug is resolved. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Linoman (linoman) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:12:51 -0000 Message-Id: <20051113181251.25642.88073.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I must ask a question, this bug that faces not only Ubuntu/Kubuntu etc but Linux in general what is it really caused by? 1) Is it caused by unfair practices by certian large businesses? 2) Is it caused by customers that do not know more about Linux? We all know I guess that its caused by a combination of both. If Linux is to expand rapidly to the desktop user then more education is needed for the public. I live in South Africa (Western Cape) and here 99% of PC shops either just don't support Linux or for some reason have not heard of it. Come on, lets educate people who do not know the joys of Linux and especially Ubuntu --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Sarangan Thuraisingham (tvsaru) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 18:58:39 -0000 Message-Id: <20051114185839.25456.51438.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I see this bug time to time. I am not talking about the average joe who doesn't even know what an OS is. But, I am talking about Computer Scientists. Yes, you heard me right. Fellow students in my Computer Science degree, are as addicted to Windows as Hippies were addicted to "LOVE" in the 60s ;-) . Our university(University of Southampton, UK), has invested a lot of time, money and effort into providing us with a room full of Linux PCs with latest hardware. Yet, we see students flocking to M$ Windows PCs. Bug Fixes: 1. User awareness/education - I am working on it. So far managed to conv= ert my brother and four of my friends. Though, few revert to M$ often, due = to hardware incompatibilities, with time these issues can be resolved. 2. Advocate the fact the UBUNTU is free - Yes, your PC would be a lot ch= eaper if it wasn't for all the pre-installed software. May be with the savi= ng you can afford better peripherals or even a high spec PC. As abdulmueid = commented above[in bug#1's comments page], the use of Linux based computers= is the only way for computers to become widely available in developing cou= ntries. Mmmm will they still be called developing countries then... 3. Advertise in YELLOW Pages/Directory Listings for free Ubuntu consulta= tions - LUGs are a good idea. But people are hesitant while venturing into = the unknown(to them that is). So may be the LUGs can advertise, offering he= lp in local news papers, TVs etc. 4. Awareness initiatives - Government should allocate funds to create aw= areness among people. National Televisions should telecast programmes durin= g prime time-slots, to advise people about the open source software. I thin= k, people wouldn't want to break the law when there is a legal and free alt= ernative. Why pirate MS Office when you can use Open Office? Why get all th= e spam, spy ware, virus? Well, all this is my objectives for the future. I am just waiting for my chance. Until then I am just preparing myself and doing whatever I can to help. "Small drops make the mighty ocean" So do your bit to help.... -- Saru --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: MauricioHernandez (mhz) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 03:33:53 -0000 Message-Id: <20051123033353.25642.68909.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> In 2 opportunities I have visited the Technology Section of 3 big department stores in Chile (Falabella, Almacenes Paris and Ripley). I have requested to buy even the most powerful and expensive computer they have (either desktop or laptop) but with NO operating system. After some minutes, the very motivated sales persons come back with sad face to inform me that their supervisors have not allowed the procedure because OS is already installed. Incredible! I suggest we organize the Ubuntu Request Day. What's that? Let's ask each ubuntu fan to go to a store one day (same for all over the world) and ask to buy a computer with Ubuntu (Kubuntu, Edubuntu, or maybe Debian installed). Obviously, if by any case, the store agrees... we may have some excuses already planned :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Popa Adrian Marius (mapopa) Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 12:51:15 -0000 Message-Id: <20051203125115.22243.66507.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> We could ask vendors about machines without windows pre-installed=20 I have seen in my contry (Romania) that almost all laptops (90%) are with windows home/pro already on them .=20 There are some vendors that give you choice :Acer and Siemens sell some mod= els=20 with linux. One intersting article related to this bug=20 "Early results of the (Dutch) Windows refund survey" "Sometimes as a Linux user, you wish you could buy any computer with Linux = preinstalled, or if that's not possible, just without an operating system, = but that's not the reality. If that isn't possible, is it possible to buy a= ny computer with Windows pre-installed, and then, return the unused Windows= , and ask a refund for it? That's a question many non-Windows users ask the= mselves. The answer however, isn't clear to consumers. There's only one way= to find out: ask your hardware manufacturer. Or do they neither know the a= nswer? Time to find out." http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/49036/index.html --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Nal (nalshdat) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 21:42:23 -0000 Message-Id: <20051227214223.24593.65013.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Ok I found a major part of this bug. I finaly confinced a friend to go to linux, in the form of ubuntu. He LOVED it. Couldn't stop talking about the speed and ease of use and all that. Then it happened. We went to install a game. When it didn't work he looked at me and asked how do I get my games working. I then told him for most games you can use Cedega or wine, but some don't work at all yet, you also need no cd cracks for some also. At the point he looked at me and said, wait you mean I have to buy a program to get most my games working..then some wont work..and some that do I have to use a no cd crack....Just install windows. I would rather have all my games working. So there you have it. We fix this gameing prob and we can get more users. Most that I see switch right back when they find out about games and linux. They dont want to have to install new stuf then hope their game is supported. If we can some how make it work out the box on all games like windows we will be set. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jason Woyak (woyakj) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 15:09:53 -0000 Message-Id: <20060112150953.992.71021.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I completely agree with Nal's comment about games, with one slight change. I don't think the problem is getting games to work in Linux. I think the REAL problem is getting game designers to make a Linux version of their games (shipped on the SAME CD..) Why not? Just have 3 folders: DATA (for the game data files, Windows (for the windows runtimes) and Linux (for the Linux runtimes). That way save files from the games would transer easily, MORE people would buy the games (think of how much community support whichever company was the first to implement and advertise this would get!), and people that don't know any better could still just put in the CD and hit Install. Obviously there are A LOT of details to work out here, but I think that if Mark Shuttleworth wants to advance opensource, he should try kicking a large amount of money toward the first company like EA or Activision that would be willing to have static-compiled linux binaries of their games included on the CD. Even ONE of their popular games to start out. That game would sell MANY more copies that it otherwise would, and if it was implemented in such a way that followed software standards, EVERYONE would win (the game company who would sell more games and get LOTS of great PR on sites like Slashdot, the End User who would really get a fair choice of desktop os AND get to play the hot new game title, and the OSS community who would get a HUGE amount of exposure to people who would otherwise not be as interested). How about World of Warcraft?! My $0.02 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Bandit (bandit) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 20:58:28 -0000 Message-Id: <20060112205828.606.38214.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> This must be the biggest bug of all. I have been to many contries through o= ut the world and have been to almost every major city in the USA. This is d= efently a confirmed bug. M$ has plagued the entire world like a out of control virus spreading there= software on the un-knowing. Their evil business practices have brought the= m market dominance and thus this bug must be eleminated. I vote this bug must have the highest priority and I will also continue to = assist in eleminating virus as well. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jim McCormick (rantman-2000) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 22:08:19 -0000 Message-Id: <20060122220819.28395.73434.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Present on my university campus, too. While a lot of the backend uses Mac OS X, most of the student-accessable computers are running some form of MS operating system. One lab offers an older version of Gentoo as an option, but it's the only place where I can use a free system on campus other than my dorm room. Furthermore, due to drastic price cuts (the school has a contract with Microsoft to allow their students onto the local "site license" for 10x the cost of media), there's little incentive for things to change. I have been recommending free software to anyone who comes to me looking for computer help, and have even distributed LiveCDs of Ubuntu to anyone who comes to me for technical support in an effort to get people to consider leaving Windows. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: dwerf (douwe) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 00:52:47 -0000 Message-Id: <20060123005247.28441.54934.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Yep, in the Netherlands this is a major bug. The vast majority of system deals include the SMODNIM-system (get it? It's Window's newest nickname). I'm amazed at how hard to kill this bug is. Most nonbelievers are totally focussed on the disadvantages of Linux, but I made my dad swap to Linux and I'm talking many unhappy SMODNIM-users into letting me install that system that is so good "and this is for free?" People really liked Firefox and Thunderbird and really feel the difference and the vibe the open source community can give. SMODNIM should be very afraid, because people are switching! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom Oldani (txo8933) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 04:18:37 -0000 Message-Id: <20060123041837.15826.84286.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Indeed, games are strongly affected by this bug. I would like to add a few suggestions. First off, go to garagegames.com, and buy some of the linux games. The games there are all very high quality despite being low-budget. Second, if you're a game developer, consider using a multi- platform OpenGL engine for your game, as opposed to DirectX. Third, if you're a linux developer, find a way to distribute programs in such a way as to not require a separate binary for every distro/processor combo out there! These files should be easy to use and install, and should not necessitate compiling. Some people might not want to release their source. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Carlos Blanquer Bogacz (cblanquer) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 14:19:47 -0000 Message-Id: <20060123141947.28395.98880.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> This generalised bug is persistent. Microsoft trains its salesforce to lear= n about GNU/Linux and use arguments against it.=20 As of the tasks to overcome the current situation I dare to propose: 1. make GNU/Linux and between them Ubuntu distributions be known using a ea= r-to-ear strategy 2. make Ubuntu distributions easy to configure and to update, for breaking = the myth GNU/Linux requires technical or plenty-of-free-time users 3. ensure as many language tranlations as possible, giving the opportunity = to feel confident by using an own language version to more people 4. make Ubuntu become widespread so that people know there is the possibili= ty to choose - usually many do not even know that free sotware exists 5. focus on more "convertable" users: 5.1. business are not likely to switch easily but administrations or educat= ional institutes might;=20 5.2. the younger seem to be more attracted than the elder; 5.3. emerging an= d poorer countries have more potential of growth if distributions are suita= ble to the hardware and telecoms options And probably more, but we should focus on those at least. In order to start, each of us can contribute to the distribution evolution,= install at our homes, worksplaces if allowed and firends computers. This c= old be the best advertisment campaign. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Uwe Beutin (scrambler) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 16:46:27 -0000 Message-Id: <20060126164629.26274.58543.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> In German schools it is becoming nightmarish... kids are actually taking so-called Computer Classes and the first courses they can get their hands on is M$ Excel and Word because that is, they learn, what a Computer is All About! It seems as we are rather losing the knowledge of what a computer actually is; for our kids do not ever grasp the fact that what they are learning is bullsh.. and has nothing to do with computers. So I believe this bug is even more serious than we might have imagined... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?TWFudGFzIEtyaWF1xI1pxatuYXMgKG1hbnRhcyk=?= Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 00:18:06 -0000 Message-Id: <20060131001806.9344.46465.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Bug #29194 has Lithuanian translation of this bug, but bug #29194 is target= ed to Baltic states (Lithuania and Latvia). Also there is an issue with standards and document formats - government ins= titutions and public sector shouldn't force users to use closed formats and= non-free software, but currently lots of info in government institution we= b pages are only in closed document formats, like Microsoft Office (.doc or= .xls). --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Andreas Simon (andreas-w-simon) Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 19:30:18 -0000 Message-Id: <20060201193018.3906.66873.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Mark Shuttleworth worte: "Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restricti= ng access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the = ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally." Uh, so is Rosetta, Malone, and the whole launchpad is holding back innovation too? ;-) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: nelwa (adriaan-nellen) Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 22:34:04 -0000 Message-Id: <20060203223404.11709.19586.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> There are many reasons that causes MS to dominate the software market. In = my opinion the following issues must be addressed by the Open Source commun= ity before they can even consider to appeal to the masses.
  1. User Friendliness - When have you ever had to execute a command in = terminal to do something in Windows....commands are for geeks - write a vis= ual app for everything
  2. Third party software support - This will nat= urally follow after (1.) is implemented - but think of all the apps that ge= ts used in a business environment that has no linux support - Adobe, Macrom= edia, etc
  3. Games + Entertainment - Everyone who's ever got a new cel= lphone should have realised before that things don't really sell on their u= sefull features, but more on their entertainment related features
= Implement these things into Ubuntu, and it will appeal to the masses! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: nelwa (adriaan-nellen) Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 22:35:54 -0000 Message-Id: <20060203223555.29848.78168.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> here follows my post again without html tags: There are many reasons that causes MS to dominate the software market. In my opinion the following issues must be addressed by the Open Source community before they can even consider to appeal to the masses. 1. User Friendliness - When have you ever had to execute a command in terminal to do something in Windows....commands are for geeks - write a visual app for everything 2. Third party software support - This will naturally follow after (1.) is implemented - but think of all the apps that gets used in a business environment that has no linux support - Adobe, Macromedia, etc 3. Games + Entertainment - Everyone who's ever got a new cellphone should have realised before that things don't really sell on their usefull features, but more on their entertainment related features. In conclusion: Implement these things into Ubuntu, and it will appeal to the masses! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Markus Kienast (elias1884) Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 21:25:03 -0000 Message-Id: <20060204212503.29848.25747.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> The GAMERS hold the key!=20 If you have the gamer, you have them all! Why is that? People are not religous about their OS (well most are not). A bunch of people who are satisfied with office apps already traded their windows for Linux because it gave them an ADVANTAGE. The have all software for free, it just works out of the box, they don't have to worry about the damn viruses anymore and therefore the endless Windows reinstalles they had to perform are history. * But the share of people who solely use their PC for office stuff is relat= ively small.=20 * The share of the PCs that are solely used by that kind of people is even = smaller.=20 * However, PCs usually are used by the whole family and the most skilled on= e administers it.=20 * And the most skilled one is the gamer in the family, not the office user. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ So, if you have the gamer, you have the whole family!!! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ So give the gamer an ADVANTAGE and he will switch, no questions asked! And he will be happy to teach how to use Linux to his family as long as he gets to user ADVANTAGE in return. Make Linux THE MLTIMEDIA and GAMER OS on the market and the market is yours! No need for awareness campaigns, education, ... The games is capable of finding the info on the net and he will tell the ot= hers! He is the gatekeeper! He is the opinion maker! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Markus Kienast (elias1884) Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 21:31:48 -0000 Message-Id: <20060204213148.11612.84711.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I found a poll here about what is the most important kind of app for new users http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=3D73132 But this is not a helpfull question to ask. This is just to make your self feel better, because you know the most important is office apps and we are good in that. The question to ask is: What does prevent you from switching to Linux? Religion? Learning something new? Non-availability of MS Office? Non-availability of certain Apps? Which one exactly? Minor-availability of Games? Bad gaming performance? To much hassle to make the Games work? And you publish this poll in online magazines of certain peer groups. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: magilus (magilus) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 17:57:50 -0000 Message-Id: <20060228175750.22140.21765.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> elias: I had the same thoughts. The problem is that gamers say "I will go to Linux when my fav. games have Linux support". The game devs say "If our customers use Linux, we will give our games Linux support." That is the problem. So maybe the advantages in developing games for linux should be told to the game devs like: Improved stability (because the game has to compile under different compilers) and so on An other option would be to make something like Cedega, just easier and better, to release it under the GPL and to integrate it into Ubuntu. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Nicholas Wheeler (dragoncow2) Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 03:11:06 -0000 Message-Id: <20060307031106.8978.74061.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I am currently attending the FOSE conference, so as to address this bug at a US government level. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: DarkMageZ (darkmagez) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:02:04 -0000 Message-Id: <20060313080204.30057.6632.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> This bug is currently being allowed by the U.S government, due to the fact that they cannot force open-source developers to include backdoor's into *nix. (Notice how the U.S didn't put any sanctions against microsoft for being a monopoly?) The reason why the U.S government wants this ability to enforce back- door's on 90%+ of the worlds computers is due to the fact they are working on world domination. (http://www.loosechange911.com) Also, if alot of the Linux Distro's were to merge (reducing the number from 300+ to about 30), then big manufactors of pc's would start to loose the excuse of there being tooo many linux distro's for them to choose. Also, this would help focus the efforts of the opensource community into making 30 or so REALLY GOOD linux distro's, instead of lots and lots of half-there or almost there distros. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: rysiek (mikiwoz) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:21:17 -0000 Message-Id: <20060313222117.17018.98325.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Easily reproductible in Poland, although there seems to be a move to Linux = in the laptop market (quite surprisingly). Luckily enough, a whole lotta computers aren't being bought in the big stor= es, but rather in the small ones, where the user can choose every single op= tion of his new PC - including the pre-installed OS. P.S. Guys, this bug is, like, almost 2 years old, and still unfixed! Get a move-= on! ;) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Raichu (marmaladedoot) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 05:34:20 -0000 Message-Id: <20060314053420.17018.50184.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I have dual boot at home. My four year old kid asked me, "Dad, can I have a Linux account?" Maybe there's hope for the next generation! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Warbo (warbo) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 21:30:38 -0000 Message-Id: <20060314213038.30057.23522.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> This is definetly an education issue. People use excuses like "m$ office do= esn't work on Linux", but what about OpenOffice? Well, the problem is that = people don't ask the REAL FUNDAMENTAL question about computers - What do I = want to do? They should forget about programs, OS, architecture and EVERYTHING. This wa= y you focus on "I want to make documents and read email" then you can say "= Do you want =C2=A3100 windoze, or free Linux?", then "Do you want 3GHz, 64b= it, 2GB RAM PC or 400MHz PC off eBay?" If you go to somewhere like PC World= and you say "I want to play games" they will try and sell you a bleeding-e= dge PC system with windoze xp on it. Tell them you want to browse the web -= they sell you a bleeding-edge PC system with windoze xp on it. They make t= he most money this way, and also there are not that many cheap, low-end com= puters being made anymore (except embedded, but then they add extras like t= iny size which puts the price back up). If there is a slower computer out t= here, like one designed for thin client use at less than 500MHz which can b= e sold as an office PC with a free OS then this will be popular. As far as gaming there is the same fundamental question, it is not a matter= of "I have to pay for another program to use my windoze games?" you just j= ust shout very loudly at them "Free Linux + =C2=A39 Cedega =3D =C2=A39, =C2= =A3100 windoze =3D =C2=A3100. It's cheaper to use Cedega!" Also, if there was a great portable media computer out there (like the Cowo= n A2, find it on linuxdevices.com) that SAID it was Linux based then it wou= ld be great. The iPod is covered in Apple logos, and I know many people who= have switched to Mac because their iPod integrates easily. Linux is all ov= er the place, but because it is so customisable it is usually just in the b= ackground with no mention. Sell a Linux media layer as a Linux media player= , integrate it easily with Linux and maybe even include a LiveCD and Instal= l CD then you've got a winner (if people fork out money on a brand new arch= itecture because their iPod works with it think how many will install a fre= e OS (dualbooting should be easy to do) on their CURRENT computer to access= their all-singing-all-dancing Linux media device! Anyway, those are my opinions. To anyone looking for something easy to do t= o persuade people just goet the best looking system you can (XGL, Firefox, = etc.) on a laptop with the lowest specs possible and let people see you usi= ng the time-saving features of the software. Make sure you have CD images o= n the hard drive and a CDR drive and discs - when they ask you where you go= t this thing just tell them to buy Nero and how to write an image. Then rig= ht-click on the image icon, select "Write to disc" and say "Or you could ju= st do this." --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: laggerzero (laggerzero) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:16:39 -0000 Message-Id: <20060315071639.30057.5863.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> The bug has an even uglier side on society as a whole. The average Joe out there has now completely entangled the two terms hardware and software. I have noticed this trend for awhile now and it has to do with the way things are marketed. In a linux environment, problems are not generally referred to as =E2=80=9C= the computer is acting up=E2=80=9D but as the Operating System or the piece of software in general has an issue. In dark and sinister world of microsoft everything is referenced to the word computer. =E2=80=9CMake your computer run faster=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9CYo= ur Computer might be at risk=E2=80=9D. Phrases like those continue to dumb down society. It kind= of irritates me when I hang out with friends and they say =E2=80=9COh my compu= ter is acting up=E2=80=9D when all they need is flash installed. The point I'm trying to make is that by using the term =E2=80=9CComputer=E2= =80=9D to reference every problem has made the world more closed minded in general. If someone hears something other then what they normally hear they tend to get confused and scared. Try talking to someone that doesn't know a lot about computers about linux or any other operating system and you will almost always get a blank stare out of them. I'm not saying we should dumb down linux the way Microsoft has dumbed down windows and thus the entire PC user base. What would be good is a complete in depth guide to what linux is in plain english (or whatever language of the area is) words what linux is, why it is better then windows, and most importantly, why people should use it! A big solution to the bug is education. If people are educated about the choices they can make more people would probably switch over. The only problem is getting the message out and making it appear in a way that everyone can understand. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Vijay Kumar Mateti (vijaymateti) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 21:49:51 -0000 Message-Id: <20060318214952.26204.84846.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> This is a Major issue that we people are facing these days. I'm a die hard supporter to fix the Bug #1. M$ may be developing some cutting edge technologies and may the having the best brains, but these things doesn't matter much and what matters most is the freedom. These proprietary software are restricting our freedom to learn, freedom to share and freedom to distribute. India is a developing nation and I don't think that people in our country are rich enough to buy proprietary software. I'm a die hard supporter of GNU philosophy and I wish that Ubuntu is gonna put this thing to reality. I'm successful to certain extent to propagate Ubuntu in my family, friends and in my college. I believe that one day we are going to attain this freedom. There is lots of myth that's still in the brains of the people and I've seen Ubuntu just blown them in very first time. The future if Free and Open! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Nightwing (deadmatrix) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:45:01 -0000 Message-Id: <20060319094501.12254.76610.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Hardcore confirmation of the bug in Canada. Except we got it almost as bad as the USA does. Here we're either non existant [Linux/BSD/misc O/S users] or we're dual-booting, or swapping back to XP or worst of all -- PIRATING WINDOWS VISTA! Even after having swapped to Linux or BSD. My youngest brother comes to mind as a victum of this bug. He's running WinXP build 2600 stock, no Win Updates or anything, and he refuses to even upgrade XP, or to go back to Ubuntu or anything. Way back when Whistler just got out of Release Candidates and made RTM, he was at least playing around with nothing but FreeBSD R-4.9, BeOS and QNX and such.. Every single store I've EVER been in that sells computers in today's market is pureley Windows XP Service Pack 2 be it home edition or proffessional. At least Wal-Mart almost broke the trend. I remember reading on Neowin.net and I THINK Slashdot.org too that Walton's Market Place was trying to sell computers with Linspire [Formaley known as Lindows OS] on them but it didn't really take off I think.. Never really heard more on it. And now... The dark side lures everyone and corrupts there judgement.. FIX FOUND:=20 From Free-DOS A:\> fdisk /mbr A:\> deltree A:\> format C: Format Complete - 100%. A:\> reboot.bat [Insert Open Source Operating System of Choice here.] Hit [Enter] and follow on screen instructions to Install. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: laggerzero (laggerzero) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 10:13:05 -0000 Message-Id: <20060319101305.12186.40004.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> A postitive progress on the bug! I was in class the other day and my professor recommended Ubuntu to the class!! it might not mean much now but the word is getting out. People are starting to get interested in lunux and the massive hardware requirements of Vista might be the perfect oppertunity for linux to rise through the ranks. The big caller of vista is the 3d effects in the windows. Such effects in windows require a very powerful 3d accelerator (Radeon 9800 Pro +/ Geforce 5900 +). Linux with XGL on the horrizon doesn't require that powerful of an accelerator (I've gotten XGL running flawlessly on my Geforce 4 GO 4400 64MB). So for the eye candy lover that doesn't want to by a new comp to run Vista, linux might be the answer! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Patrik_L (pcfixaren) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 10:48:22 -0000 Message-Id: <20060319104822.26236.67328.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Many pepole on this forum has talked about gaming but one thing that no one has mentioned is the fact that most modern games needs OpenGL to run. In order to get these Open GL games to run they need drivers from either ATI or Nvidia corporation because that is what most gamers use on there computers. Neither ATI nor nvidia has made there drivers awalible as opensource so they can't be installed by default by ubuntu because ubuntu is 100% free software. I think this is the biggest issue of all the mentioned issues if the awarige gamer will ever start to use ubuntu as a gaming plattform Today the drivers for Nvidia are awalible from ubuntu repositories but when installing them you need to hack the /etc/x11/xfree86config. this is not wery user friendly for the awarige user. I thnk this issue needs to be solved before advertising ubuntu asa gaming plattform because otherwise the users that arewilling totry ubuntu willreturn towinXP thinking that linux is way to hard to learn. I can think of two posible solutions to solve this issue 1. Convince nvidia and ATI to make there drivers open source so that they can be included in ubuntu this can be tricky but if enuff peapole starts to mailing them about opensource drivers? who knows. 2. make ubutu less restricted about 100% free software and include the driv= ers anyway so that things work "out of the box " for gamers. there are other distros out there who has the nvidia drivers preinstalled = xandros, korora xgl, mepis etc --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?TEdCIFtHw6Fib3IgTMOpbsOhcnRdIChsZ2Ip?= Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:26:41 -0000 Message-Id: <20060320132641.8118.88032.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> A workaround for this bug for a special case: let's install Ubuntu for your father if you ask for some introduction using The Internet, especially if he does not know anything on computers so it's up to you what he will use in the future. This workaround worked for me. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Ptero-4 (ptero-4) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:41:31 -0000 Message-Id: <20060322224131.24634.72828.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I'm from Panam=C3=A1. This bug was at borderline critical both here in Pana= m=C3=A1 and in Costa Rica with almost everybody using Windoze XP from schoo= ls, offices and web shops. But There's some good news folks. Although My friends and me are still work= ing on a bug fix, my friends and me with the help of a friend who works as = a MacStore salesman found a workaround for this issue. We began to offer ch= eap G3 Macs with both OS X and Ubuntu at schools, offices and web shops, an= d also we convinced the MacStore training staff about giving training courc= es about computer basics and GNU/linux as well as giving free ubuntu (x86 a= nd PPC) CD's to those who attend those training courses. This isn't a perfe= ct fix of course, but at least it have decreased amount of victims of that = bug down to 30% of the population, buying time for a real bugfix to be rele= ased.=20 Workaround recomended specially in countries where this bug is dangerouslly= widespread. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 23:32:19 -0000 Message-Id: <4421DE83.2020606@canonical.com> That's a pretty sharp workaround. Especially if you are deploying it on thin client networks using old Power Macs in schools! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Lionel Dricot (ploum-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:17:36 -0000 Message-Id: <20060401111736.23707.80101.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Today is the official announcement of the Canonical-Microsoft fusion to fight Apple marketshare. I suggest to mark this bug as "Rejected" (as we are now all MS contributors) and open a new one against Apple marketshare. Congratulations to everyone involved ! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jonathan Carter (jonathan) Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 13:58:20 -0000 Message-Id: <20060401135820.5415.72359.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> That's a real lame April fools joke! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?q?Jenda_Van=C4=8Dura_=28jenda=29?= Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 14:51:01 -0000 Message-Id: <20060406145101.32233.62841.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I hear the Marketing Team is working on a fix - let's keep our eyes open! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mickey (michael.z) Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 23:25:53 -0000 Message-Id: <20060406232553.24486.54258.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> This bug breaks all patches that have been tried so far. Does anyone have a fix to this bug? Esp a newer deb that would be able to remedy the situation. antritrust-1.0-dsrg-ubuntu1.deb (fails at bought politician error while it = reloads the database) antritrust-2.0-dsrg-ubuntu3.deb is almost working but could swing either way. On serious note try coming into any store! The lineup of Microsoft products is everywhere. We need specifically linux hardware. So to make less hacking around windows only hardware. Eh, taking a deep Electronics course hope could build eventually some new hardware linux only platform. Microsoft be afraid, be very afraid! if my knowledge gets strong. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Teo (teo.ubuntu) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 14:06:46 -0000 Message-Id: <20060411140646.32313.44086.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Recently I had to buy new PC, because my old one crashed. And I had some strange observations. There is no single PC on the market without preinstalled Windows OS. Furthermore if you look at the web-sites of PC manufactures all of them recommend Windows as OS. You may prove it yourself. I interpret this as defense, because M$ is feeling the Linux power. I am based in Germany, Europe and I am a software developer. Unfortunately I am still newbie in Linux world, but I am learning. Till now I have developed software exclusively for Windows. I know its advantages, but I really would like to get involved in open-software. The M$ monopoly would not lead to anything good. At home I have a dual-boot system. Also I installed Ubuntu on my girlfriend's laptop and was pleasantly surprised when she asked me to leave Ubuntu as default boot OS. My appeal is: don't worry, be happy! There's hope! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: wyo (otto-wyss) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 19:17:11 -0000 Message-Id: <20060411191711.32233.28066.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Cross-platform (http://wyoguide.sf.net/index.php?page=3DCross- platform.html) probably won't fix this bug completely but it's definitely a first step. See also http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/54009/index.html O. Wyss --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tomi Urankar (tomi0) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:43:27 -0000 Message-Id: <20060419094327.21526.13367.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Unfortunetly its the same here in Slovenia. Here in Slovenia I even had to argue with the saler in a PC STORE that I want my notebook FLAT. Without any OS on it! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Eduardo Cereto (dudus) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 21:34:59 -0000 Message-Id: <20060419213459.8468.27245.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I second that. Here in Brazil you often have to buy proprietary software to get your hardware. Even if it's a major producer like HP --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Rui Castro (rui.castro) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 22:25:35 -0000 Message-Id: <20060419222535.8495.74975.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> This is in fact an annoying bug that keeps appearing all the time, even after we install ubuntu over and over in every machine we can get our hands on. We need to keep fighting this awful bug by installing ubuntu in more and more machines, especially they have windows installed :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Christopher_Linux (chris1010) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 00:38:09 -0000 Message-Id: <20060420003809.8495.32517.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> This bug is spreading like a virus! It has taken over florida! EVERY SINGLE STORE IN FLORIDA. I asked a representative at Tiger Direct if they had any computers with ubuntu or free software installed and they said "To tell you the truth, linux sucks and if we used ubuntu people would return thier PC's." This was so sad I told him he was completely wrong. I then asked him if he has ever used linux and he said....no. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: oscarnavas (onavas) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 21:45:04 -0000 Message-Id: <20060420214504.21557.9859.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> The bug has considerely decreased its potential damage here in Colombia, actually more people understands that free software initiatives gives them estability and freedom of mind. Anyway piracy have never let Microsoft have a meaningful "Market Share". --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Geeman (geemanuk) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 14:07:30 -0000 Message-Id: <20060421140730.30501.24210.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> until ubuntu gets simplified things like file sharing accross a home network, this bug is going to stay. Ask your mother/sister/girlfriend if they can share a folder with you on your computer. Can you explain how to do it on the phone? No...then its too complicated. Can you explain how to share files /printers folders accross a network in windows? Yes very easily. No manually editing any text files or reading 1000 line documents... Ubuntu should focus on simplifying common tasks if it wants to gain market share --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Erich Pawlik (erichpawlik) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 11:10:07 -0000 Message-Id: <20060422111007.30538.82905.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I agree with Geeman. However, there are two other issues: - As the developers at openoffice.org have learned, compatibility with the = Microsoft world is a critical success factor for any initiative planning to= give Microsoft a fight. Launchpad is full of bugs affecting compatibility = issues and those issues pop up on ubuntuforums, but according to discussion= s on launchpad, Ubuntu developers don't seem to consider those issues as hi= gh priority.=20 A point in case: In current Dapper, Windows networking has been broken as a= whole for quite some time (the root course could be a problem in winbind, = see bug #39990). As of today, access to network shares and printers via smb= is not possible and firefox aborts if I try to access a web site on a Wind= ows machine running apache. - Another problem is peripherals - the choice is much more limited than in Windows and it is a pain to install drivers not shipped with Ubuntu.(look for Minolta printers in the bug list on launchpad). Regards Erich --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: makgun (mustafa-akgun) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 09:12:57 -0000 Message-Id: <20060428091257.29040.3320.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Yes, same bug still working here in Turkey. But we are still working against to bug. We send over 30.000 pre-installed linux for desktop and over 2.000 installed linux for server computers to people and companies. to fix it is not easy to make free linux distro. (not enough i mean) Because people addicted to this bug and computer seller fall in love with this bug. There is law against to this bug. But law practicers is on bug-side.That is all going... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alan Tam (at) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 11:48:55 -0000 Message-Id: <20060428114855.30638.17467.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> A lot of people have given wrong points here. This is not a bug to promote "Linux is the heavens", or "Windows is the hell". This is a anti-non-free bug --- free is the heavens and non-free is the hell. If all games are available with Linux binary, and every gamer uses Linux, this bug is still unfixed. However, if Microsoft make Windows available under open source license, this bug is not far from being fixed. If you are unsure, go back to the original text again. It is not about majority of the people using a "foolish" OS, or no choice of OS on a new computer purchased, or the world's monotonicity on OS. Bug 1, in Mark's words, is about non-free software "holding back innovation in the IT industry". Think twice: if Mac OS X became the dominant OS, would you be happy? If you do not agree with the philosophy of this bug, please fork your ideas into another bug. Of course I strongly agree that this anti-non-free bug is more difficult to fix the (mostly perceived) anti-Windows bug, but are you happy with fixing a bug by creating another bug with similar severity? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Bjorn Tipling (bjorn-ambientchill) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 01:11:08 -0000 Message-Id: <20060430011108.16739.87395.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Beyond just observing the bug has anyone tried to fix it? Has anyone tried to 'sell' Ubuntu to retail stores? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Daniel Matysiak (dmatysiak) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 04:00:58 -0000 Message-Id: <20060430040058.16712.68952.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Another thing we can't forget is media playing out of the box. I've installed Ubuntu on traditional Windows users' computers and while they were happy with the lack of viruses and gator-like adware, they were also displeased with the lack of media playing ability. Out of the box, Ubuntu (totem!) has so far not been configured to play many video formats, and the typical user will not know how to get it working (nor should they have to). Additionally, the necessary plugins are not installed for Firefox by default to play video. While the lack of Flash is okay, since it is easily installable and Windows has not, to my knowledge, been shipping with Flash, something like video and music should come by default. How much of this is because of Ubuntu's policies, I don't know. However, I do think much progress has been made in the right direction. I admit that this may not be an easy problem to solve. But until this is addressed, casual users will probably be more likely to switch back to Windows. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Robert Nasiadek (robzon) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 22:19:00 -0000 Message-Id: <20060430221900.30606.88655.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Extremely critical in Poland. It took me a loong time to find a suitable no= tebook without non-free software preinstalled. Fortunately, the company I work for is working on the bug. We hope to start= selling Ubuntu-enabled PCs soon after Dapper is released :-) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Dennis Kaarsemaker (dennis) Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 09:51:05 -0000 Message-Id: <20060502095105.30638.16026.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Sadly, Breezy failed to correct this, so this has to be rejected. We'll have to hope that Dapper will improve the situation :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Matt (m4tt1muspr1m3) Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 19:43:33 -0000 Message-Id: unsubscribe On 5/2/06, Dennis Kaarsemaker wrote: > > Sadly, Breezy failed to correct this, so this has to be rejected. We'll > have to hope that Dapper will improve the situation :) > > ** Changed in: Ubuntu Breezy > Severity: Critical =3D> Normal > Priority: High =3D> None > Status: Confirmed =3D> Fix Released > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: DarkMageZ (darkmagez) Date: Thu, 04 May 2006 04:19:42 -0000 Message-Id: <20060504041942.7710.37748.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> there appears to be some serious work being done on this bug in cuba, they appear to have even fixed it. http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=3D23300 you will have to talk to your political people in your country's to see if they will apply the bugfix. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: casualprogrammer (casualprogrammer) Date: Thu, 04 May 2006 14:36:28 -0000 Message-Id: <20060504143628.24599.27292.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> This is not actually a bug, as long as Ubuntu ( as well as other Distributions ) don't get their homework done, Microsoft is rightfully in the lead. I tried Ubuntu Dapper from flight 5 now, everytime I have fixed something, the next upgrade breaks it and more. Currently trying to get some usability out of beta2 ( why anyone should call it a beta esvapes me though ) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Popa Adrian Marius (mapopa) Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 15:50:59 -0000 Message-Id: <20060505155059.20638.43778.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> We can attract some users by show-ing how good is ubuntu (even running on w= indows) without messing with partitions or if they are afraid to try livecd version= . =20 Try Ubuntu Virtual Machine appliance=20 "safe browsing you can do it on windows too" http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/app= liances/directory/browserapp.html http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/ubuntu.html ps: I used it on my amd 64 bit machine to make flash work in firefox browser --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Scott Beamer (angrykeyboarder) Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 13:46:32 -0000 Message-Id: <20060509134633.21547.48097.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I can confirm this bug as well. It not only affects purchases at your local PC store but it also affects most online PC purchases *cough*www.abs.com*cough*. This is highly critical and has been around for ages. Just my $.02... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Ion (ionlng) Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 12:23:43 -0000 Message-Id: <20060513122343.15142.15487.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> The easiest way to fix this bug would be to create advantageous conditions and to persuade programmers and companies to create more programs for Ubuntu. Maybe, a reasonable step would be to provide such companies with the necessary amount of Ubuntu CDs along with the programs they created for this software? Thus, even if the user does not have Ubuntu OS installed, he/she would still buy the program. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: towsonu2003 (towsonu2003) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 15:49:09 -0000 Message-Id: <20060516154909.15819.25212.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Did we receive any patches for this from Microsoft? It says "Hilf [US- based platform strategy technology manager at Microsoft] added that his team has contributed patches to the open-source community ..." here: http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/software/0,39044164,39360024,00.htm anyway, if we can get PC sellers to pre-install Ubuntu widely, or manufacturers to provide drivers/specifications for Linux, I'm confident that we'll be able to close this bug soon... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Nal (nalshdat) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 18:02:25 -0000 Message-Id: <20060516180225.15115.82549.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Untill we can Get game makers to support Linux equal to how they support Windows, and get all or most of all the current and dated games working 100% on Linux in a very easy to do way. The bug will still stand no matter how much other advancements linux has. Like I said before, I have about 30 to 40 people at work and about 6 friends that would glady go to ubunut, they love it....but wont because they can not play their games easy or not at all. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Sense Egbert Hofstede (sense) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 19:07:18 -0000 Message-Id: <20060516190718.15115.18623.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> This is confirmed for the Netherlands. Most of the computer-shops don't even have Linux! Only Windhoos(in dutch it is a word for hurricane(but it is much more smaller)! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Paul Flint (flint) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 17:18:20 -0000 Message-Id: <20060522171820.31072.82513.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Here in Vermont, we are all about changing Amerika. My best advice on this bug Mark is keep building good software. I suspect that if you do this the bug will go away on its own. Kinda odd for a bug! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Eric (kb3hkg-deactivatedaccount) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 17:43:30 -0000 Message-Id: <4471F842.6090002@gmail.com> Maryland isn't any better, I only ever saw Linux in a store once and it=20 was Suse. I have become a Linux advocate especially for Ubuntu. Are=20 there any _unique_ ideas as to how we can continue to spread the good word? Paul Flint wrote: > Here in Vermont, we are all about changing Amerika. My best advice on > this bug Mark is keep building good software. I suspect that if you do > this the bug will go away on its own. > > Kinda odd for a bug! > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jonathan Carter (jonathan) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 18:19:23 -0000 Message-Id: <1148321964.4552.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-05-22 at 17:43 +0000, Eric wrote: > Maryland isn't any better, I only ever saw Linux in a store once and it=20 > was Suse. I have become a Linux advocate especially for Ubuntu. Are=20 > there any _unique_ ideas as to how we can continue to spread the good wor= d? This time of the year, I gather all excess Ubuntu CD's that friends have (just before the release of a new version). Then I take them, and leave them in public places (malls, libraries, etc). I put them down at strategic places where someone will definitely take it, even if it's a shop assistant. At least that might get them to use Ubuntu (or even install Firefox/OOo from the live cd) which will get them interested in Ubuntu. I remember with the Warty CD's, I strategically places more than 300 CD's in a very busy mall in Bellville. MHUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA -Jonathan --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Scott Beamer (angrykeyboarder) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 18:56:06 -0000 Message-Id: <44720946.4090104@angrykeyboarder.com> On 05/22/2006 11:19 AM, * Jonathan Carter spake thusly: > On Mon, 2006-05-22 at 17:43 +0000, Eric wrote: >> Maryland isn't any better, I only ever saw Linux in a store once and it = >> was Suse. I have become a Linux advocate especially for Ubuntu. Are=20 >> there any _unique_ ideas as to how we can continue to spread the good wo= rd? >=20 > This time of the year, I gather all excess Ubuntu CD's that friends have > (just before the release of a new version). Then I take them, and leave > them in public places (malls, libraries, etc). I put them down at > strategic places where someone will definitely take it, even if it's a > shop assistant. At least that might get them to use Ubuntu (or even > install Firefox/OOo from the live cd) which will get them interested in > Ubuntu. I remember with the Warty CD's, I strategically places more than > 300 CD's in a very busy mall in Bellville. >=20 > MHUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA >=20 I'd not be surprised if the majority of them just got tossed, though. --=20 Scott www.angrykeyboarder.com =C2=A92006 angrykeyboarder=E2=84=A2 & Elmer Fudd. All Wights Wesewved --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: GPLed (sunnysachanandani) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 12:33:05 -0000 Message-Id: <20060526123305.23022.88529.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> This bug is highly prevelant in India. I am trying to fix the bug by converting people to Linux one at a time, but progress is unfortunately, painfully slow. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Eric (kb3hkg-deactivatedaccount) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 12:59:41 -0000 Message-Id: <6adaf0790605260559m66824c37wc34f461963ef5a8b@mail.gmail.com> As is progress almost everywhere. I saw they made a boxed set of ubuntu in Germany, how do we get this elsewhere? On 5/26/06, GPLed wrote: > > This bug is highly prevelant in India. I am trying to fix the bug by > converting people to Linux one at a time, but progress is unfortunately, > painfully slow. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 13:18:02 -0000 Message-Id: <4477000A.2070008@canonical.com> If there's a lot of demand for it in Germany, we'll figure that out :-) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Justizin (launchpad-jryan) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 16:46:03 -0000 Message-Id: <20060526164603.22978.58909.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Dude, this bug has been around for years, I'm glad to see someone is finally doing something about it! Interestingly enough, the incarnation of this problem is different in Japan. When I worked for TurboLinux, our 4.0 Workstation release outsold Windows 98 in retail outlets for several months, if I recall correctly. Do we need a separate bug for retail use cases? It is worth noting that, every now and again, users need to upgrade their desktop software. Maybe there is a bit of natural selection in the fact that Windows users in some cases have to go through a rejection process. If this is the case, it may be helpful for our cause for computers to ship with Windows. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Irvin Piraman (ippiraman) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 23:44:57 -0000 Message-Id: <20060526234457.24152.12503.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Only recently, PC shops in our province in the Philippines have started to pre-install Ubuntu. This is after the move of a region-wide organization to adopt free and open source software in businesses, schools, and government. However, end-users tend to reformat the computer and install mostly pirated copies Windows. What I see in this bug is that the solution does not just depend on PC retailers or marketing but also through training and education of the end-users. This way both ends meet. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: borneoo (borneoo) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 10:39:50 -0000 Message-Id: <20060527103950.9357.62100.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Of course, many things cause this bug,only one from me: The new computers are even cannot work with other OS because of the missing= drives, even there is no a serious Hardare Compatible database where I can= find supported hw-s before buy. If it would be, and would be good, searchable, it would improve the selling of those who are in, and maybe the others would loose this mark= et.... so it could be a general on for linux/bsd/.... thx --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Richard Elkins (texadactyl) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 13:46:05 -0000 Message-Id: <20060529134605.16269.104.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Awwwwww ... the original post could have been an enjoyable "one-liner". M$ is here for the long haul, for better and worse -- mostly the latter but they keep moving the desktop "bar" so that Linux and MacOSX have to play desktop-catchup. Its the only way that M$ will be dethroned someday -- no empires last forever, eh Europeans? The biggest desktop enjoyment holes right now IMHO: (1) ease of multimedia installation and usage although the latest Firefox MediaPlayerConnectivity extension goes a long way to help Internet access and (2) quality of video and audio streaming. Thoughts? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: 6205 (6205-reactivated-deactivatedaccount) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 15:02:53 -0000 Message-Id: <20060529150253.21922.86272.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> maybe ubuntu needs to be more visible to ordinary people, like firefox or openoffice. we should try to make some adds, or create campaign like was "spread firefox", convince people to try it instaead of other distros, because this is the best linux distribution to date and i'm sick of all those suse-chameleon-fetishists with all those 9.5 of 10 reviews of new bugy suse shit 10.1 - SPREAD UBUNTU ! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Bruce Cowan (bruce89-deactivatedaccount) Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 17:33:07 -0000 Message-Id: <20060530173307.2141.90962.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> First step would be to remove those awful "Designed for windows xp" crap things. Mind you it's ironic that if it really were "designed for windows xp", then how come it runs Ubuntu? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: hellfire (hellfire7-gmail) Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 09:27:12 -0000 Message-Id: <20060531092712.4978.47499.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> This bug is widely spread here in Bulgaria too. The problem concerns not only PCs but addon hardware too. For example several months ago i went to a PC store to buy a TV card. I asked if it was supported in linux and the answer i got was "The drivers on the disc will do all the job". Needless to say there were no drivers for linux on the disc which meant that the salesman didn`t know about linux or didn`t care about it (luckly i managed to get the card working very easily). Apparently this is the salesmen`s generic answer when asked about linux because when later i went to buy a MP3 player and asked if it would work with linux i got the same reply - "The drivers on the disk will do the job". The problem is especially serious in our educational program. All the computers in our schools are with Windows installed by deffault and most of the teachers either don`t care about linux or don`t know much about it. I`ve heard of several cases when students tried to persuade their teachers to use open source OS in school with little or no success. There are however exceptions. For example several months ago i attended to a conference about open source software in a school in my home town Sliven and there seemed to be great interest both from the students and from the teachers. So there is hope after all that this bug wil be solved. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Todd Lindner (mail-toddlindner) Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 14:47:00 -0000 Message-Id: <20060531144700.4978.37206.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Oh no! Only 9 hours until the dapper release, and there is STILL an outstanding critical bug!!! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: biffster (biffster) Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 23:05:11 -0000 Message-Id: <9d3466460605311605q6859e21cn9866defc07a2d435@mail.gmail.com> On 5/31/06, Todd Lindner wrote: > Oh no! Only 9 hours until the dapper release, and there is STILL an > outstanding critical bug!!! What's the critical bug? I just upgraded to Dapper last night, and some things are definitely wonky. I can't boot into the .15-k7 kernel at all, but the .15-386 kernel works without a problem. I thought that was very odd. And XFCE didn't import settings for the Panel, so I have to manually fix that. Otherwise, everything seems very nice. --=20 Michael Fierro biffster@gmail.com Y! Messenger: miguelito_fierro AIM: mfierro1 http://biffster.org http://weightjournal.com --- Weapons at best are tools of bad omen, Loathed and avoided by those of the Way. - Tao Te Ching, Ch. 31, Blakney --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: towsonu2003 (towsonu2003) Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 04:06:52 -0000 Message-Id: <20060601040652.5009.15005.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> > What's the critical bug? two that I see (and not counting how gksudo gets confused by caps passwords= ), they are: bug #37773 bug #47775 and two unconfirmed: bug #44112 bug #46060 And of course, this one :P Reference: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alan Tam (at) Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 04:52:58 -0000 Message-Id: <20060601045258.5009.57345.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> We all know that bugs that occur only in some specific hardware are difficult to be identified and fixed. We know that there are not many ubuntu developers. Given a certain amount of developers, only a fixed amount of work can be done. If a bug really cannot be fixed before the release, then it will not be. Critical bugs get higher priority, but it is still possible they cannot be fixed soon enough. This happens to every Linux distribution. This happens to Microsoft and Apple. After dapper is released, changes can go to dapper-updates. It will not get the CD fixed, but this is the best we can do. The developers are as unhappy as you to see critical bugs shipped. Please stop spamming this bug for such unrelated issue. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: towsonu2003 (towsonu2003) Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 05:36:44 -0000 Message-Id: <20060601053644.2224.77202.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> > Posted by Alan Tam at 2006-06-01 04:52:58 UTC First time I got such a flame in launchpad :confused: My intent was not to spam, but but to add my observations to the discussion= btw "Posted by Todd Lindner at 2006-05-31 14:47:00 UTC" and "Posted by biffster at 2006-05-31 23:05:11 UTC" Sorry for any inconvenience. As for > After dapper is released, changes can go to dapper-updates. afaik, releases don't get bug fixes ( http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu ) hmmm, so in addition to my (and others') previous suggestions of pre- installing ubuntu to sold computers and better driver support, microsoft's share may be hurt as well if ubuntu starts shipping bug fixes just like the security fixes are shipped as updates. But, would this render "releases" obsolete somehow? I'm not sure? well, this was my favorite thing during the Dapper development cycle: when you do dist-upgrades during development, you saw bugs (that you weren't even aware of) fixed... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Vladimer Sichinava (alinux) Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 10:29:40 -0000 Message-Id: <20060601102940.5009.71673.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> http://essedi.it/ This is computer on-line market, very popular in Italy, that sell computers with Ubuntu/Kubuntu or Windows XP preinstalled :) That's great I think! (Great to have 2 ways!) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Erik van Luxzenburg (evanluxzenburg) Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 12:00:59 -0000 Message-Id: <20060601120100.2224.1058.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I can agree with all above, here in the Netherlands, nearly every computer store, even the internet-based ones sell Windows pre-installed. There are some Linux Computer sellers, but they remain obscure. Also, trying to get printed info or advertisements on Linux, media-coverage is all hard to find! My suggestion is a bug fix, but that might need some huge investments, as I guess we have to start some bizz by ourselves! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Andy Kniss (akniss) Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 13:22:54 -0000 Message-Id: <20060601132255.5009.68344.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I can confirm this bug also, but I have figured out a workaround until the bug can be squashed permanently. 1) Go to https://shipit.ubuntu.com/ and register for an account.=20 2) Request several pressed Ubuntu Dapper CDs. 3) Wait 4 to 6 weeks. 4) Give them to your friends, show them the LiveCD and then help them insta= ll the system. ALTERNATE WORKAROUND: 1) Go to http://www.ubuntu.com/download and download the appropriate ISO. 2) Burn the ISOs to CDs. 3) Go to step 4 above. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: chrisblack (chris-wccp) Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 13:50:57 -0000 Message-Id: <20060601135057.2224.47291.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I've seen this bug appear all over Ireland - thanks Andy for the solution/workaround..... I'll pass this information on... Unfortunately your Alternate Workaround, isn't much of an option for a lot of places in this part of the world, as our wonderful govt and telephone suppliers, can't get their act together to supply us with a decent broadband infrastructure!!!! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 15:38:25 -0000 Message-Id: <20060601153825.4978.64027.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Violent ! here in Canada, Microsoft prevails. Thanks to large infusions o= f cash to the previous Liberal Gov't, nothing but Microsoft product can be = found. That gov't chose to install Microsoft product instead of superior, less exp= ensive Canadian software.=20 The only real advantage is that it is now much easier to cheat on your income tax thanks to "buggy" (is that as in horse and buggy?) Microsoft shitoftware. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: EriktheUnready (erik-pe) Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 16:34:27 -0000 Message-Id: <20060601163427.5009.62266.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Started on a bugfix, by sending out all new PC's without M$ preloaded with = Ubuntu. The main problem here, however is that the nice PC cases & branded = PC's have to sell with M$-xp.... Someone higher up is kissing bill's toes. The nice thing about Ubuntu is I've tested it on all our laptops and it wor= ks like a charm! Now to sell these ubuntu-powered laptops to government!!! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 18:06:04 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0606011106k3d56592fm66847a5646c09ed9@mail.gmail.com> Hi, any luck pre-loading UBUNTU onto laptops ? Allen On 6/1/06, EriktheUnready wrote: > > Started on a bugfix, by sending out all new PC's without M$ preloaded with > Ubuntu. The main problem here, however is that the nice PC cases & branded > PC's have to sell with M$-xp.... > Someone higher up is kissing bill's toes. > The nice thing about Ubuntu is I've tested it on all our laptops and it > works like a charm! Now to sell these ubuntu-powered laptops to > government!!! > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 > --=20 http://adventures-with-the-rascals.blogspot.com/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jeff Frazier (j-m-frazier) Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 04:06:03 -0000 Message-Id: <20060602040603.2224.59520.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> A possible work around for this bug isCo-Op dollars for the small retailer.= =20 A custom Pc builder can be *encouraged* to provide a product with a GNU/Lin= ux Os Vs. a bug infested, Closed Source, Money Hungry B$ operating syste= m. Co-Op dollars can be an effective *Bug* Spray ;-) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: nLIter (blogger2) Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 20:16:10 -0000 Message-Id: <20060602201610.2224.36621.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Do not despair folks. Although it looks like a pandemic (ref. Chicken Flu), some very adept peop= le have come up with a very potent drug(medicine) A team headed by Dr. Shuttleworth has been working very intensely for the last six months on a project called 'Ubuntu'. 90% of affected victims have been cured in=20 a matter of a few hours, after taking this amazing medicine and simultaneou= sly sniffing a drug called 'Synaptic'. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: xtsbdu3reyrbrmroezob (xtsbdu3reyrbrmroezob) Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 05:59:30 -0000 Message-Id: <20060604055930.4978.59114.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> root@livecd:~# WIN32_CHECK=3D$(cfdisk -P s /dev/hda | grep "NTFS" | cut -d " " -f 2); if [ $WIN32_CHECK =3D=3D "" ]; then echo -e "\nYou are not infected :-)\n"; else echo -e "\n@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@\= nYou are infected with Virus.Win32.Gates.NT...Install Ubuntu immediately\n@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@= @@@@@@@@@"; fi --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: kellemes (kellemes) Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 23:42:50 -0000 Message-Id: <20060604234250.2224.86283.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I really think this is a serious bug, for me mainly because of the lack of good alternatives for certain Windows software, the amount of good and easy to use software for Windows I simply can't find on Linux. There are stil a couple of reasons for me to boot Windows from time to time= ..=20 1- Gaming (Tuxracer? are you kidding?) 2- Dreamweaver (please, don't talk Quanta or NVU) 3- Delphi (what happened with Kylix!?) If we want to fix this bug we need to provide the Windows application- and webdeveloper with IDE's on the same level as the IDE's on Linux, instead of pointing to Emacs or VI. Mark - Amsterdam/Holland --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Christopher (captain-c) Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 17:30:09 -0000 Message-Id: <20060605173009.6022.11446.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> "There are stil a couple of reasons for me to boot Windows from time to tim= e.. 1- Gaming (Tuxracer? are you kidding?) 2- Dreamweaver (please, don't talk Quanta or NVU) 3- Delphi (what happened with Kylix!?) If we want to fix this bug we need to provide the Windows application- and = webdeveloper with IDE's on the same level as the IDE's on Linux, instead of= pointing to Emacs or VI." I couldn't agree more. I am in the same position. I love *buntu but i'm a pc gamer, and unfortunately, i'm reliant on Windows for it. Also, Dreamweaver is the best web development app available. Other than those 2 items, Kubuntu/Ubuntu is so much better than Windows. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Eric (kb3hkg-deactivatedaccount) Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 18:16:34 -0000 Message-Id: <6adaf0790606051116v57b48856pca2d25423da37d2f@mail.gmail.com> Have you used Bluefish? I used to be a die hard Dreamweaver fan to , until a slight problem I pointed out to Macromedia involving php files to which they offered me $100 discount on a newer version when I had already spent $700 already. I'd rather have free working programs then pay for nonworking ones any day. On 6/5/06, Christopher wrote: > > "There are stil a couple of reasons for me to boot Windows from time to > time.. > 1- Gaming (Tuxracer? are you kidding?) > 2- Dreamweaver (please, don't talk Quanta or NVU) > 3- Delphi (what happened with Kylix!?) > If we want to fix this bug we need to provide the Windows application- and > webdeveloper with IDE's on the same level as the IDE's on Linux, instead = of > pointing to Emacs or VI." > > I couldn't agree more. I am in the same position. I love *buntu but i'm > a pc gamer, and unfortunately, i'm reliant on Windows for it. Also, > Dreamweaver is the best web development app available. Other than those > 2 items, Kubuntu/Ubuntu is so much better than Windows. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: kellemes (kellemes) Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 21:38:08 -0000 Message-Id: <20060605213808.5989.79658.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Yes, most IDE's for Windows are expencive but I don't mind paying a price f= or tools I earn money from myself. That includes the OS itself.. I don't say Dreamweaver (or VS or Delphi or whatever..) is the best IDE for= everyone, and it maybe that for some it's not working flowlessly at all, b= ut if it doesn't work as expected or if I want to handcode I can always use= Emacs, VIM, JEdit or one of many free/open source editors available for Wi= ndows. There are a lot of Window alternatives for Bluefish but there aren't= any Linux alternatives for Dreamweaver. The best thing of Linux (Ubuntu ofcource) for me is choice, I'm not forced = to use one specific mediaplayer, IDE, emailclient, windowmanager or webbrow= ser. But if I want to develop my site or application on Linux it seems more effo= rt and more time is needed to get the same result. I think Linux will only go mainstream if the web/app-developer has more cho= ice of IDE's. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: biffster (biffster) Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 22:01:26 -0000 Message-Id: <9d3466460606051501w705a0fa2t2ab15ffa00dd36d4@mail.gmail.com> > There are stil a couple of reasons for me to boot Windows from time to ti= me.. > 1- Gaming (Tuxracer? are you kidding?) How about Quake IV? Doom3? Unreal Tournament 2004? Neverwinter Nights? There are some big-name games out there with native Linux clients. It is possible to waste a whole lotta time playing games in Linux. The choices just aren't as many. And then, of course, there's Cedega... --=20 Michael Fierro biffster@gmail.com Y! Messenger: miguelito_fierro AIM: mfierro1 http://biffster.org http://weightjournal.com --- Weapons at best are tools of bad omen, Loathed and avoided by those of the Way. - Tao Te Ching, Ch. 31, Blakney --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Marco Aicardi (launchpad-net-aicardi) Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 22:15:46 -0000 Message-Id: <20060605221546.5989.88956.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Here in Italy Bug #1 is 99.9% spread, it's behaving like a virus! Extremely easily reproduceable in 3 steps: 1) Enter a computer shop; 2) Choose the computer you'd like to buy; 3) Ask the seller "Hey man, nice PC; however I'd like to save =E2=82=AC90 a= nd have this computer without windoze". The seller's brain will go immediately in BSOD (Blue Screen of Death) and the virus code will be run with root... oops... Administrator privileges, starting saying random words like "Ehm", "Well", "Mmm", "Ehhhr"; after saying that "a computer is not a computer without windoze", he will crash in a loop saying that "It's not possibile" (a new version of "Division by zero" fault?). The only way to exit this loop is by using "the windoze style": give a kick in the ass to the seller (yeah, this is his ctrl-alt-del key combo!), and he'll reboot; then exit the store and try another one. Cheers. Stragnagn --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: kellemes (kellemes) Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 22:18:15 -0000 Message-Id: <20060605221815.6022.36616.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I'm somewhat surprised how many of you think software should be free when s= o many of us are making a living by using or developing software, I think i= t's fine when people have a choice of OS when they buy a computer but, for = example, if you want to run an online store you should be willing to invest= in software just like you'll have to invest in hardware.. I'm spending most of my life developing software for small bussinesses.. 1- Because I enjoy it. 2- I want to feed my family. Giving at away for free is not an option.. I spend a fair amount of time developing sites and apps for organisations a= nd friends etc.. for free, simply because they don't have the money and/or = I want to support them. But I have to make a living don't I? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: kellemes (kellemes) Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 22:27:46 -0000 Message-Id: <20060605222746.6022.28168.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> "How about Quake IV? Doom3? Unreal Tournament 2004? Neverwinter Nights? There are some big-name games out there with native Linux clients. It is possible to waste a whole lotta time playing games in Linux. The choices just aren't as many." Most homeusers buying a PC want to be able to play games available for there system, choosing Linux is not an option really.. It's not about the bussiness selling the hardware with Windows preinstalled, it's about the developers who are having a hard time getting the support developing highstandard games (and standard apps) for Linux. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Marco Aicardi (launchpad-net-aicardi) Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 22:33:28 -0000 Message-Id: <20060605223328.6022.72555.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Here in Italy Bug #1 is 99.9% spread, it's behaving like a virus! Extremely easily reproduceable in 3 steps: 1) Enter a computer shop; 2) Choose the computer you'd like to buy; 3) Ask the seller "Hey man, nice PC; however I'd like to save =E2=82=AC90 a= nd have this computer without windoze". The seller's brain will go immediately in BSOD (Blue Screen of Death) and the virus code will be run with root... oops... Administrator privileges, starting saying random words like "Ehm", "Well", "Mmm", "Ehhhr"; after saying that "a computer is not a computer without windoze", he will crash in a loop saying that "It's not possibile" (a new version of "Division by zero" fault?). The only way to exit this loop is by using "the windoze style": give a kick in the ass to the seller (yeah, this is his ctrl-alt-del key combo!), and he'll reboot; then exit the store and try another one. Cheers. Stragnagn --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: biffster (biffster) Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 22:41:36 -0000 Message-Id: <9d3466460606051541v6a07d605xdfc6448f5b9011f4@mail.gmail.com> On 6/5/06, Kellemes wrote: > I spend a fair amount of time developing sites and apps for organisations= and friends etc.. for free, simply because they don't have the money and/o= r I want to support them. > But I have to make a living don't I? Ah, but just because you want/need to sell your software doesn't mean that others must do the same thing. On the converse side, just because the GiMP team makes their software available for free (as in beer and speech) doesn't mean that Adobe cannot charge for Photoshop. Different strokes for different folks. I think that both paradigms get along fine. I have no problem shelling out money for good software for my computer (e.g. I bought Quake IV when it came out so I could play it on my Ubuntu machine). But I also enjoy using a free (beer/speech) operating system, office package (OO.o), personal information manager (Kontact), HTML editor (Bluefish), music library (amaroK), blog software (Wordpress), etc. --=20 Michael Fierro biffster@gmail.com Y! Messenger: miguelito_fierro AIM: mfierro1 http://apt-get.biffster.org http://weightjournal.com --- Weapons at best are tools of bad omen, Loathed and avoided by those of the Way. - Tao Te Ching, Ch. 31, Blakney --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Marco Aicardi (launchpad-net-aicardi) Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 09:38:07 -0000 Message-Id: <1149586688.8065.40.camel@localhost> Il giorno lun, 05/06/2006 alle 22.18 +0000, Kellemes ha scritto: > I'm somewhat surprised how many of you think software should be free when= so many of us are making a living by using or developing software, I think= it's fine when people have a choice of OS when they buy a computer but, fo= r example, if you want to run an online store you should be willing to inve= st in software just like you'll have to invest in hardware.. > I'm spending most of my life developing software for small bussinesses.. > 1- Because I enjoy it. That's great. > 2- I want to feed my family. This is right and good. However, please remember that it's possible to earn money even with FREE software: an example is Asterisk. If you want, you can have the totally free and open program, which is one of the most complete and complex program for VoIP and PBX and POTS telephone lines, with answering machines, fax, and a lot more. Or, if you want, you can BUY a customized version, or you can BUY premier support, or you can BUY a complete software/hardware solution. For the user, this is an option, and they live with the money they get from this part of the free software. They got RICH this way! > I spend a fair amount of time developing sites and apps for organisations and friends etc.. for free, simply because they don't have the money and/or I want to support them. I agree with you. You can develop apps for free, and make people pay for support, for example. > But I have to make a living don't I? You could try making something similar: make a Web site for a non-profit organization, maybe someone having to deal with children's health... Make if FOR FREE... You will make something great for the children and for you, and when users will see your personal Ads in that site, maybe some of them will come to your site and will ask you to pay in order for you to make a web site for them. Windows IS an option, and I think that, as long as companies can live giving away software for free, open software is one of the best choice ever. Cheers. Marco --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: encompass (encompass) Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 21:19:06 -0000 Message-Id: <20060606211906.5989.45709.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> One of the big problems I see is that many people use illegal versions of w= indows with their computers. I think Microsoft would be a good company if = they really made their software hard to copy. The harder the better. In addition... it would be a good idea if linux/ubuntu users, not to use il= legal versions of windows because it hurts the market of free software buy= giving someone a free but illegal alternative. Don't copy windows. Infact don't copy anything illegal. It hurts the free = software world the most! Purhaps we could all get jobs working for microsoft as anti-piracy gangs. = Like the straight edgers of the software world. Grr! =C2=B6: Let's hope Windows Vista is the hards dang thing to crack. Thanks for the comments everyone, Jason Brower --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: DarthMaul38 (tomasiwilly) Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 19:52:11 -0000 Message-Id: <20060607195211.3580.61468.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> This 'bug' you're talking about is 'by design', if I can say that. I studie= d IT on 286 computers with DOS on them, then Windows. I tried to switch to = Linux many times, but every distribution comes with at least one obvious pr= oblem that's very hard to solve by a beginner. Let me give you just a few e= xamples: - Mandrake 8, 9 and 10: none of them was able to recognize properly my Luce= nt Winmodem (the only Winmodem officially supported in Linux) - never fixed= even by people with experience in Linux - Redhat (cant remember version) failed to work with USB devices 5 years af= ter USB was implemented in Windows 98 - Ubuntu - cannot use my HP PSC multifunction printer, Midnight commander s= till shows crap in console mode - Freebsd - most user unfriendly OS These are maybe things that a Linux expert could fix easily, but hey, you w= ant a regular user to love a OS that doesn't help him very much.=20 I've seen 8 yrs old kids installing Windows XP themselves, including printe= r, video, etc. just because it's all very easy to setup. Want them to swith= c to a OS that has almost no games and it's a real adventure to configure? = I think THIS is Linux's biggest bug - wasn't build for users who want a com= puter help do their job, but for people who accept to be computer's slaves. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Marco Aicardi (launchpad-net-aicardi) Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 07:10:21 -0000 Message-Id: <1149750621.19798.11.camel@localhost> Il giorno mer, 07/06/2006 alle 19.52 +0000, DarthMaul38 ha scritto: > This 'bug' you're talking about is 'by design', if I can say that. I stud= ied IT on 286 computers with DOS on them, then Windows. I tried to switch t= o Linux many times, but every distribution comes with at least one obvious = problem that's very hard to solve by a beginner. Let me give you just a few= examples: > - Mandrake 8, 9 and 10: none of them was able to recognize properly my Lu= cent Winmodem (the only Winmodem officially supported in Linux) - never fix= ed even by people with experience in Linux > - Redhat (cant remember version) failed to work with USB devices 5 years = after USB was implemented in Windows 98 > - Ubuntu - cannot use my HP PSC multifunction printer, Midnight commander= still shows crap in console mode > - Freebsd - most user unfriendly OS >=20 > These are maybe things that a Linux expert could fix easily, but hey, you= want a regular user to love a OS that doesn't help him very much.=20 > I've seen 8 yrs old kids installing Windows XP themselves, including prin= ter, video, etc. just because it's all very easy to setup. Want them to swi= thc to a OS that has almost no games and it's a real adventure to configure= ? I think THIS is Linux's biggest bug - wasn't build for users who want a c= omputer help do their job, but for people who accept to be computer's slave= s. I agree with you that Linux is not easy to fix at the very beginning. But please note that even a 8yrs old boy can install Linux (say Ubuntu of Fedora Core, at least), if all the hardware is ok. Winmodem and Winprinters are a UGLY strategy for hardware companies to try to spend a very litte few bucks in order to save millions, and making YOUR CPU making the work that the modem or printer hardware would have to do. Winmodem and Winprinter are usually not supported in Linux, as the softRAID5, because hardware producers do NOT disclose driver sources, as in the drivers are kept the "secrets" on how they product work. This is NOT very kind to users. Hardware companies should support Linux! For what regarding user friendlyness, I agree with you that Windows is more user-friendly; but Linux is making BIG steps ahead to become more and more user friendly. At last, knowing a computer does not mean the user is a "slave" of the PC. You are SLAVE of Windows, because if you want to make something, you have to make it as Windows wants. Linux make you free of making what you want with your PC, but you have to know how the PC works! Many Windows user have NO idea on how internet works, on what "RAM" or "HD" is, what is a worm, what is the BIOS or the bootblock, what a partition is or which differences are between FAT, FAT32 and NTFS, because they actually do not know what a filing-system is!!! I think this is NOT a great way to use a computer. I mean... If you want to drive a car, you have to know the basis on how it works, and you have to know the laws you have to respect. Nothing is necessary to use a computer... Why shouldn't it necessary for users to know how a computer works? Knowledge is NEVER a fault! Cheers. Marco --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: kellemes (kellemes) Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 07:45:09 -0000 Message-Id: <20060608074509.3580.62950.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> The average user doesn't want to know how a computer operates and they shou= ldn't need to.. Like Ubuntu says somewhere, it should just work! I'm a proffessional user so I don't mind spending time getting things to wo= rk and I actually like it, but the average user wants a computer that just = works! I really don't see any reason for a user to know what the difference is bet= ween NTFS, FAT and FAT32 except when they need to know for there particular= job. I'm often surprised how little people know about there (Windows) syst= em and still being able to use it quit well for work or hobby. To be honest, I don't know anything about the internals of my tv-set, micro= wave-oven or washingmachine but I'm using it daily and it just works! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: kellemes (kellemes) Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 08:06:24 -0000 Message-Id: <20060608080624.3580.9890.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> "Ubuntu - cannot use my HP PSC multifunction printer" This is a good example of the lack of userfriendlyness on Linux. It's the difference between.. - Popping in the CD-rom and follow the wizard (Windows) - Follow directions here http://hplip.sourceforge.net/ (Linux) For the average user the Linux-way is too complicated and timeconsuming.. You shouldn't blame the user, they have the choice between the easy and the= hard way, obviously they choose the easy way.. The fact it's the more expe= ncive way is no issue (not in the western world any way) simply because peo= ple have enough cash to spend some money. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Marco Aicardi (launchpad-net-aicardi) Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 08:50:25 -0000 Message-Id: <1149756626.19798.34.camel@localhost> Il giorno gio, 08/06/2006 alle 07.45 +0000, Kellemes ha scritto: > The average user doesn't want to know how a computer operates and they sh= ouldn't need to.. Ok, but then they do NOT have to complain of computer virus, internet intrusions, private files disappearing as TCP port 139 is open and no hardware firewall installed, and so on. They do not have to complain, if they loose files in a system crash and they are not able to recovery. They do not have to complain, if they cannot restore the system after a BSOD and they loose data. > Like Ubuntu says somewhere, it should just work! Infact I have installed Kubuntu to 3 friends of mine, and they are working great with it. Such users were not even able to reinstall Windows. > but the average user wants a computer that just works! The average driver would like to drive a car WITHOUT having to loose time taking lessons and taking the license... But they simply cannot :-) > I really don't see any reason for a user to know what the difference is between NTFS, FAT and FAT32 except when they need to know for there particular job. For example because I'd like to know which security my system gives me? I want to know if my wife can or cannot open a file of mine, and you know that FAT/FAT32 have NO security flags, but 99% XP users do NOT know. I'd like that XP users know that leaving an Administrator password BLANK make your PC completely open: whoever, on your PC or on the internet, can access your files. But users simply do NOT know that! > I'm often surprised how little people know about there (Windows) system and still being able to use it quit well for work or hobby. Yes, as I'm surpised on how little people is able to prevent damages to software, is able to prevent internet intrusions or virus damages, and so on... > To be honest, I don't know anything about the internals of my tv-set, microwave-oven or washingmachine but I'm using it daily and it just works! The day when your microwave-oven will keep gigabytes of your own personal data (bank files, etc.) and that your tv-set will be internet-violable and your washingmachine will have it's Operating System to be reinstalled in order to work (or the OS upgraded in order not to destroy yellow while washing), I think that day you SHOULD KNOW how they operate. Cheers. Marco --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: kellemes (kellemes) Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 10:00:03 -0000 Message-Id: <20060608100003.3580.3643.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> "but then they do NOT have to complain of computer virus, internet intrusions, private files disappearing as TCP port 139 is open and no hardware firewall installed, and so on." When I buy a car there is a securitysystem installed, I only have to use it.. when I buy a computer there is nothing installed except for Windows-firewall, which isn't the best firewall out there.. A basic system to protect the user from the outside horror should be provided. I think users have all the right to complaint about viruses and trojan horses etc.. "FAT/FAT32 have NO security flags, but 99% XP users do NOT know." I really think the user only wants to know IF he can open the file, instead= of being able to technically explain WHY he can't open the file. "The average driver would like to drive a car WITHOUT having to loose time taking lessons and taking the license... But they simply cannot :-)" Marco, listen, there is a difference between driving the car (and maybe change a tire) and being able explain what's happening under the hood. I have my license but I'm not going to try to install a new oilpump or replace a crankshaft spacer , I'll visit the garage.. "The day when your microwave-oven will keep gigabytes of your own personal data (bank files, etc.) and that your tv-set will be internet-violable and your washingmachine will have it's Operating System to be reinstalled in order to work (or the OS upgraded in order not to destroy yellow while washing), I think that day you SHOULD KNOW how they operate." You know how an ATM-machine works? I agree a lot of users are very ignorant in using the PC, but that's the reallity, that will never change. Hardware- and software developers should provide for a complete and working system for this ignorant user also. Assuming at least we (as Ubuntu fans) want this system to go mainstream.. "I have installed Kubuntu to 3 friends of mine, and they are working great with it. Such users were not even able to reinstall Windows." There are avarage- (ignorant) users and power-users, also I had problems wi= th Windows in situations where Linux would do the job perfectly, but in gen= eral it takes more time and know how to get Linux running on a particular s= ystem then Windows.. The difference maybe that Linux is extremely open and = configurable where Windows is closed and hard to tweak.. But that's one of the strong points of Windows also.. it provides for a sys= tem that does it's thing the way B. Gates has chosen, maybe not fast, maybe= not safe, maybe not cheap but it works.. (in most cases that is..) If we want Ubuntu to go mainstream it should provide the ignorant user a wo= rking system without forcing him to recompile the kernel to get system-hibe= rnate running, it should work when this user clicks the hibernate-button! Ubuntu has a lot of work to do before this bug can be closed.. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Marco Aicardi (launchpad-net-aicardi) Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 10:18:09 -0000 Message-Id: <1149761917.19798.47.camel@localhost> Il giorno gio, 08/06/2006 alle 10.00 +0000, Kellemes ha scritto: > I agree a lot of users are very ignorant in using the PC, but that's the > reallity, that will never change. Hardware- and software developers > should provide for a complete and working system for this ignorant user > also. Assuming at least we (as Ubuntu fans) want this system to go > mainstream.. I agree with you. But such ignorance is NOT a good thing, I think. 15 years ago, people using a computer knew what a computer was, how it worked, and usually how to solve problems. Now with WindowsXP, every idiot in the world is able to install a virus on his own machine... I am NOT sure that this is the way things should go. Even if Windows would be the ONLY OS in the world, I think that users should KNOW the PC and know how to fix it... The simplest thigns, at least!!! This is MY vision of the IT world. > If we want Ubuntu to go mainstream it should provide the ignorant user a = working system without forcing him to recompile the kernel to get system-hi= bernate running, it should work when this user clicks the hibernate-button! >=20 > Ubuntu has a lot of work to do before this bug can be closed.. I agree with you and EVERY Linux Distro has a LOT of work to do. But note that in the last 3 years a lot has been done: now ignorant-users are able to use a preconfigured Linux system, I think in the next 2 years the gap between Windows and Linux user-friendlyness will be filled. Then, only user's intelligence will be the problem between fixing Bug #1. Cheers. Marco --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: kellemes (kellemes) Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 10:25:33 -0000 Message-Id: <20060608102533.3609.82270.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> "but then they do NOT have to complain of computer virus, internet intrusions, private files disappearing as TCP port 139 is open and no hardware firewall installed, and so on." When I buy a car there is a securitysystem installed, I only have to use it.. when I buy a computer there is nothing installed except for Windows-firewall, which isn't the best firewall out there.. A basic system to protect the user from the outside horror should be provided. I think users have all the right to complaint about viruses and trojan horses etc.. "FAT/FAT32 have NO security flags, but 99% XP users do NOT know." I really think the user only wants to know IF he can open the file, instead= of being able to technically explain WHY he can't open the file. "The average driver would like to drive a car WITHOUT having to loose time taking lessons and taking the license... But they simply cannot :-)" Marco, listen, there is a difference between driving the car (and maybe change a tire) and being able explain what's happening under the hood. I have my license but I'm not going to try to install a new oilpump or replace a crankshaft spacer , I'll visit the garage.. "The day when your microwave-oven will keep gigabytes of your own personal data (bank files, etc.) and that your tv-set will be internet-violable and your washingmachine will have it's Operating System to be reinstalled in order to work (or the OS upgraded in order not to destroy yellow while washing), I think that day you SHOULD KNOW how they operate." You know how an ATM-machine works? I agree a lot of users are very ignorant in using the PC, but that's the reallity, that will never change. Hardware- and software developers should provide for a complete and working system for this ignorant user also. Assuming at least we (as Ubuntu fans) want this system to go mainstream.. "I have installed Kubuntu to 3 friends of mine, and they are working great with it. Such users were not even able to reinstall Windows." There are avarage- (ignorant) users and power-users, also I had problems wi= th Windows in situations where Linux would do the job perfectly, but in gen= eral it takes more time and know how to get Linux running on a particular s= ystem then Windows.. The difference maybe that Linux is extremely open and = configurable where Windows is closed and hard to tweak.. But that's one of the strong points of Windows also.. it provides for a sys= tem that does it's thing the way B. Gates has chosen, maybe not fast, maybe= not safe, maybe not cheap but it works.. (in most cases that is..) If we want Ubuntu to go mainstream it should provide the ignorant user a wo= rking system without forcing him to recompile the kernel to get system-hibe= rnate running, it should work when this user clicks the hibernate-button! Ubuntu has a lot of work to do before this bug can be closed.. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: rabbitdude (rabbitdude) Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 16:55:34 -0000 Message-Id: <20060608165534.22460.57044.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> In Portland, this bug is around 75-95% prevailent. I know of the K12 Linux terminal Server Project, which supports linux in an education enviroment using thin-clients, and Free Geek, which gives refurbished Linux boxes (called a Freakbox) for either 24 hours of voulenteer work or building 6 computer systems (you keep the 6th). Some of the area schools have linux labs and people are distrobuting linux, but not much of an impact that some may want. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: franganghi (joered) Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 17:12:10 -0000 Message-Id: <20060608171210.22460.81357.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I found that in Italy the bug also infects the brain of the lusers: in many cases, lusers has been found standing in front of the monitor with the brain halted, watching WE DON'T KNOW WHAT while a picasso-like picture on the screen indicates that the system is performing a disk defragmentation. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: renatogini (rgini-inwind) Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 20:56:29 -0000 Message-Id: <20060608205629.22460.1198.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> In Italy (Milan) the bug is fully verified. The good new is that a few month ago I buyed a mobile computer with a scrat= ch HDD (no OS!); the seller was very interested in Linux, but also very ign= orant so he could not offer a Linux pre-installed. Go on fixing bug and the market share could be inverted! I agree with most people in this stream; also users must be reformatted aft= er Micro$oft virus infection. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Bartolomeo Nicolotti (bart-nicolotti) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 09:14:13 -0000 Message-Id: <20060610091413.25765.82925.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> With https://www.trustedcomputinggroup.org/home it won't be possible to eliminate bug#1 because it won't be possible to boot a non trusted operating system! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Marco Aicardi (launchpad-net-aicardi) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:08:43 -0000 Message-Id: <1150006124.27550.3.camel@localhost> Il giorno sab, 10/06/2006 alle 09.14 +0000, Bartolomeo Nicolotti ha scritto: > With https://www.trustedcomputinggroup.org/home it won't be possible to > eliminate bug#1 because it won't be possible to boot a non trusted > operating system! This is NOT correct; it will be possible to boot a non-TC operating system, disabling the TCPA features. But this will cause impossibility to open files produced under TC-enabled OSes (read: Windows) and browse the Web on TC-enabled web-sites (read: Windows Server hosted professional web sites) and hear digital music protected with the latest DPRM. However, with TC, fixing bug #1 will be a lot harder! Marco --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: D. Brodzik (amyrose) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:37:04 -0000 Message-Id: <20060612053704.25765.79606.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Yeah, I can verify this bug. When I bought my laptop, they said the only way I can get a refund for Windows is to return the whole laptop. So I was stuck paying for software I NEVER used. It's hard to find stores around here that will sell computers without Windows. I am sick of paying for software I don't use. (The computers that come with Linux were too expensive for me.) This bug is so critical, the only way to fix it on my laptop was to format the entire hard drive and install Ubuntu! I don't fully understand why PC manufacturers don't preinstall Ubuntu and other free OSes on their systems because they are royalty-free. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: abhijit_rao (vilabhi) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:23:00 -0000 Message-Id: <20060612152300.25765.40378.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> This bug took me down; when I was on my knees praying, Ubuntu was revealed = to me.=20 On a more serious note - I would not mind paying money for Ubuntu - I think= Ubuntu is wonderful. The money should be used to encourage more developmen= t. If one is really serious about getting rid of bug#1 - money should be ch= arged so that it can be used to fund new development faster.Let us think ab= out it - Ubuntu can reach bigger level of success. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: D. Brodzik (amyrose) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:42:36 -0000 Message-Id: <20060612154236.25801.67187.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Some of us are poor college students with no money who use Ubuntu partly because it's free. While it is also the best OS I've ever used, I would rather donate than be required to pay for it. Of course, I use it for other reasons, too, but the most convincing argument to give it a try is "It's FREE!" I'm still trying to find other workarounds for this bug, though. People don't seem to be willing to change. My girlfriend and I use Ubuntu, but we are trying to convince others to use it too. This bug is very critical because I have to format my computers to work around it, losing all data on the hard drive. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Eric (kb3hkg-deactivatedaccount) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:51:08 -0000 Message-Id: <6adaf0790606120951o798519afhf0d4f0f9d966130a@mail.gmail.com> At the same time if you are in college this gives you a great place to spread ubuntu around. I have used my own campus for this and though slow I have succesfully converted atleast 5 people in the last smester alone to ubuntu. On 6/12/06, Daniel Brodzik wrote: > > Some of us are poor college students with no money who use Ubuntu partly > because it's free. While it is also the best OS I've ever used, I would > rather donate than be required to pay for it. Of course, I use it for > other reasons, too, but the most convincing argument to give it a try is > "It's FREE!" > > I'm still trying to find other workarounds for this bug, though. People > don't seem to be willing to change. My girlfriend and I use Ubuntu, but > we are trying to convince others to use it too. > > This bug is very critical because I have to format my computers to work > around it, losing all data on the hard drive. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: outoforderuk (outoforderuk) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:57:45 -0000 Message-Id: <20060612165747.25801.60243.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Having same problem in england, i'm currently trying to buy a laptop, and everyone insists on giving me a windows license with it, i dont want it and it adds =C2=A360 to the price which is veru annoying --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: catty0320 (catty0320) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 17:47:04 -0000 Message-Id: <20060613174704.25765.15119.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> i am gonna hand out ubuntu and kubuntu CDs at digital life in new york, RIGHT BESIDE THE MICROSOFT BOOTH as they boast about vista beta 2. i downloaded it and so far it seems like what you find in a latrine --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: 1337 (neorser) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 02:43:00 -0000 Message-Id: <20060617024300.20083.75365.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I think this bug affects the linux kernel itself! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jordan Peacock (hewhocutsdown) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:16:42 -0000 Message-Id: <20060619031642.20041.96613.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> In Kuwait and indeed, much of the middle east, everything is pirated. The irony of this is that legitamite, free software, goes unrecognized even as horrid copies (some that work, some that don't) of overpriced commercial software sell on the black market. Secondly, there is no support, community or otherwise, as at best, most people are trained on a severely Micro-centric curriculum. Even Macintoshes are rarities. Severe condition on this, with education being the only major stopping point; people get their machines built from scratch, and virtually all copies of windows are pirated anyway. Change the understanding of the businessmen and this would change drastically. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Bruce Cowan (bruce89-deactivatedaccount) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:36:24 -0000 Message-Id: <20060623153624.29464.3171.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Reproducable in Scotland! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jeremy Lynton (lynton) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 19:08:29 -0000 Message-Id: <20060624190829.29559.80997.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I have found this bug to be widespread in Spain! It is so bad here that the downloadable programme for doing the annual tax declaration only work on the aformentioned 'windows', I have checked with the tax office and was told that if I bought a copy of 'windows' to do my declaration, I could not discount the price from my tax bill! I wonder if this so-called 'windows' is a bug at all; I am begining to think that it may be a conspiracy! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: sean (sean-rains) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 19:44:26 -0000 Message-Id: <20060624194426.29464.43914.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Of course it's a conspiracy. Everything that involves that much money and secrecy has to become a conspiracy. That's why you switch to free software, if everybody knows what's in it, there's no need to conspire! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Stromham (stromham) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 20:28:45 -0000 Message-Id: <20060627202845.17054.33938.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> what is the point of this? it is not a 'bug'. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Eric (kb3hkg-deactivatedaccount) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 20:54:07 -0000 Message-Id: <6adaf0790606271354r71a04c74vc0feb70c662ca19c@mail.gmail.com> It is something we are trying to fix though. On 6/27/06, Stromham wrote: > > what is the point of this? it is not a 'bug'. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: paniq (paniq) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 22:02:27 -0000 Message-Id: <20060627220227.17054.90050.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I have also noticed that within the demoscene, Microsofts market share is rather big. Programmers of freely available multimedia 3D presentations do usually not care much for Linux. I founded LinuxDemos.org to change this. We foster high-end development of graphics demonstrations on Ubuntu. The first stepstone is a competition within a competition on a german Demoparty in August. Let's see how this will progress. On a sidenote: searching for "wine", i noticed that winehq bumped up on the google rankings from #3 to #1. could this be a sign? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?TWlra28gTcOka2Vsw6QgKG1tbSk=?= Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 10:46:35 -0000 Message-Id: <20060630104635.17054.94587.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> We are working for the fix. We will release it before Christmas. All interested in participating can contact me: mmm@iki.fi. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: D. Brodzik (amyrose) Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 09:11:54 -0000 Message-Id: <20060702091154.17054.53197.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I'm in the computer hardware program, and in one of my classes, the teacher was bragging about how generous Microsoft is by letting college students get their stuff cheap. I raised my hand and said "Who needs this Micro$oft stuff cheap when you can get similar stuff for free? They just want to lead you in so they'll have you hooked for life!" I'm very public in my opinions, and I even refuse to use the college's computers most of the time (I can get on the wireless network using my Ubuntu- based laptop anyway). I am so sick of them saying they have the latest in Micro$oft software (and bragging about it .... ugh!) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: DarkMageZ (darkmagez) Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 12:11:40 -0000 Message-Id: <20060702121140.17054.206.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> (replying to Daniel Brodzik's previous comment) hehe yeah. it's even funnier that their latest is 3-5 years obsolete, depending on which peice of software we are talking about! even then that code isn't particularly new... they take the old code, add afew features, put some more polish on the user interface & modify the propriatory format just alittle so it breaks compadibility with the previous versions!. Now you HAVE to BUY the new version if you wish to beable to view that powerpoint presentation from your boss. It's also funny how that they give everyone Administrator (root) priverlages! .Then install some crummy program to lock you out of playing with settings, installing software & prevent you from using msn messenger! Which causes Internet Explorer!!! to crash on its first run everyday... THEN!!!, you're sitting there with internet explorer opened (because you ar= e not allowed to use Firefox or Opera) and porn pop-up's keep coming up whi= le you are trying to do work... and even when you are NOT using internet ex= plorer... the applications the teachers want you to write documentation for= ... for an assignment won't start because windows is corrupt... you know ho= w to fix it (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=3Dkb;en-us;3247= 67) but fixing it will break collage policy, and the network administrator will= be there in 1-6 months to fix it. (the above is a true story from just ONE year @ campus) OpenStandards Forever! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Eric (kb3hkg-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 13:01:33 -0000 Message-Id: <44A7C3AD.30502@gmail.com> What college is this? Beginning to wonder if a college team should be=20 setup complete with a list of which colleges use linux or use MS. Daniel Brodzik wrote: > I'm in the computer hardware program, and in one of my classes, the > teacher was bragging about how generous Microsoft is by letting college > students get their stuff cheap. I raised my hand and said "Who needs > this Micro$oft stuff cheap when you can get similar stuff for free? They > just want to lead you in so they'll have you hooked for life!" I'm very > public in my opinions, and I even refuse to use the college's computers > most of the time (I can get on the wireless network using my Ubuntu- > based laptop anyway). I am so sick of them saying they have the latest > in Micro$oft software (and bragging about it .... ugh!) > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: D. Brodzik (amyrose) Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 19:01:05 -0000 Message-Id: <20060702190105.17054.89577.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> This college says "Nobody uses that Linux stuff!" I remember trying to submit directions for using Linux to get on the wireless network (they had Windows and Macintosh directions for it), but they said "No! Nobody uses it!" I know they're partially sponsored by Microsoft (they have Microsoft banners all over the place)... The bug is really prevalent at WCTC (Waukesha County Tech College in Wisconsin)! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Scott James Remnant (Canonical) (canonical-scott) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 15:02:21 -0000 Message-Id: <20060703150222.17054.41942.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> moving the sysvinit task to some source package without bug contacts -- this is filling my INBOX and I *REALLY* don't care! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Freyr (freyr) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 16:37:34 -0000 Message-Id: <20060703163734.17086.69715.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> ##DarkMageZ## It is possible to use firefox without admin powers on a windows computer. Y= ou can use firefox zip off the firefox ftp sever with a few changes if you = want to leave no usage tracks or use portable firefox which is already set = up for you. http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/browsers/portable_firefox The college I went to in Missouri replace every computer on the hole campus with new ones so they could upgrade to Windows XP from 98/2000, why in the world you want to do that. Buy one new good computer for each classroom and make that into a server and turn all the old computers into thin clients. Each classroom in the IT building had atleast 20 computers and I don't even want to think about all the computers the staff was using that was replace campus wide. After the switch, all classes went up about $20 a credit hour >.< --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: DarkMageZ (darkmagez) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 22:54:42 -0000 Message-Id: <20060703225443.17054.54767.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> (replying to Freyr) actually no, after one kid did that... he got suspended for 2 weeks. then t= hey added an entre to that crummy lockdown program to prevent firefox from = loading... funny, it only took them a day to fix that one! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Andrew Ginty (gintya) Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 09:30:38 -0000 Message-Id: <20060710093038.27312.32.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> How about pestering internet cafes and the providers of those awful internet booths at airports and hotels to switch to Linux. a) They'll have a better, more secure, more functional user interface b) Ordinary people will have the opportunity to use Linux without even know= ing it=20 (except for "why can't I have that browser with the red and blue icon = on my home PC") c) Advocacy will come at the ground level from us Geeks to real people So get out of your bedrooms and down to the internet cafes. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mr. B.B.C. (mrbbc) Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:26:12 -0000 Message-Id: <20060711142612.27312.91917.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> First of all: it's most user-friendly to preinstall an OS. Installation is a very awful procedure. If you'd be forced to install Windows on your own it may lose at least 10 percent of its market share... Even installing Ubuntu takes time; BTW: a good OS installer would ask first for all settings among other things the root password, users and so on and then automatically installs with no more prompting. Second: there are loads of software the people want to run; especially video games, but maybe even some mirror cabinet managment software bought at Wal-Mart... because there are descriptions how you can run Half-Life 2 with WINE, I assume that you can get most Windows applications working - but you might need some kind of scripts doing installation and execution; the best coming with a tool that serves, downloads and manages them in a unified format. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: sopo (sopo-dan) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 17:17:16 -0000 Message-Id: <20060713171716.12867.45004.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> MARCO:=20 you're forgetting that 15 years ago computers were only used by IT speciali= sts. nowdays a computer is like a car, or a washing machine - everybody NEE= DS to use it to get something done, they don't need to LIKE it or understan= d it. you can't ask a secretary who just needs to answer e-mails and type documen= ts to understand why her box won't hybernate. it's the IT specialist's job = to make it hybernate when she pushes that particular button. and sadly in linux this and many other things don't "just work" yet the way= our little secretary would expect it. sure, you don't need to be a specialist to understand these things, but you= have to at least like them and be interested in them. but if you're neithe= r they just nned to work. and it can't be considered ignorance if someone isn't interested in compute= rs. we can't all have the same hobbies, can we? you don't expect everyone to understand how an internal combustion engine w= orks, or what the effects of a short shift gearbox are, but everyone expect= s a car to work as advertised. PS: you can substitute "secretary" for any other job you like, because everybody is more or less relying on a computer to get something done PS2: this is NOT a pro-MS statement, i'm just saying that linux still needs alot of work to be done on the "works out of the box" factor --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 23:48:14 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0607131648o5f973765t3396cc057083202f@mail.gmail.com> Halo Sopo !!! 23 years ago I was using a PC in my business, along with a colour monitor, and I was not an IT specialist. Even then there was a choice between DOS and Unix. But today everyone needs to access a computer and the 'net. Everyone needs to understand the computer they are driving. At this moment the only foolproof, desktop , system that I know of, within my limited scope is Ubuntu Linux . Windows, any flavour. is scary. Viruses, spyware, and just plain lousy code plague MS Windows. Bill Gates is the wealthiest man in the world, does he give a damn about lousy code ? Linux does work. Perhaps the only aspect of computer use is that we should trust is Linux. Flawed as it may be Linux s the only answer on the horizon . Allen On 7/13/06, sopo wrote: > > MARCO: > you're forgetting that 15 years ago computers were only used by IT > specialists. nowdays a computer is like a car, or a washing machine - > everybody NEEDS to use it to get something done, they don't need to LIKE = it > or understand it. > you can't ask a secretary who just needs to answer e-mails and type > documents to understand why her box won't hybernate. it's the IT > specialist's job to make it hybernate when she pushes that particular > button. > and sadly in linux this and many other things don't "just work" yet the > way our little secretary would expect it. > sure, you don't need to be a specialist to understand these things, but > you have to at least like them and be interested in them. but if you're > neither they just nned to work. > and it can't be considered ignorance if someone isn't interested in > computers. we can't all have the same hobbies, can we? > you don't expect everyone to understand how an internal combustion engine > works, or what the effects of a short shift gearbox are, but everyone > expects a car to work as advertised. > > PS: you can substitute "secretary" for any other job you like, because > everybody is more or less relying on a computer to get something done > > PS2: this is NOT a pro-MS statement, i'm just saying that linux still > needs alot of work to be done on the "works out of the box" factor > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 > --=20 http://adventures-with-the-rascals.blogspot.com/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Naresh V (nareshov) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:04:52 -0000 Message-Id: <20060726200452.3814.94720.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Very easily reproducible bug in any part of India. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Hil (freehil) Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 09:14:28 -0000 Message-Id: <20060801091428.5063.98641.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Undoubtedly reproducible at Building 118 at Microsoft North campus. Every PC in the Microsoft headquarter buildings is windows based except its Linux lab. I've never been there, so it does not count. Well, I put Linux on a old PC just to test the CD-ROM. No one here cared about if you put Linux on PCs as long as you get your jobs done --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: kubuntu_user (anibalmorales) Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 01:23:21 -0000 Message-Id: <20060803012321.5063.22298.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> My strategy is to go to each major computer store, i.e. CompUSA and the like, and ask "where are your Linux computers?." When they say they don't have them, then I leave disgusted. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Eric (kb3hkg-deactivatedaccount) Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 13:12:17 -0000 Message-Id: <6adaf0790608030612r3555d8fdt691299913e53779@mail.gmail.com> Tried it most of them don't know what Linux is and haven't heard of it, oddly enough this includes Best Buy who even sells Suse. On 8/2/06, kubuntu_user wrote: > > My strategy is to go to each major computer store, i.e. CompUSA and the > like, and ask "where are your Linux computers?." When they say they > don't have them, then I leave disgusted. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: 0001 (mark-franklin) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 18:15:10 -0000 Message-Id: <20060809181510.7656.68690.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Verified reproduced in blg 50 at Microsoft, Redmond. All the test machines and mail machines are running windows. Additional troubleshooting steps are too risky. Waiting to see what happens to the market when Vista bombs. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?q?Christian_Ad=C3=A9en_=28christian-adeen=29?= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 20:25:26 -0000 Message-Id: <20060812202526.24756.93534.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Before we even can think about making, Ubuntu Linux mainstream we MUST get all well know programs that work on a Windows PC to work on a Ubuntu PC. Ofcourse we have WINE, Win4Lin or Vmware that can, if you just take you're time. Work with almost any Windows program. But a regular user just want to click and install. A regular user don't want to open a Package manager or a terminal to install a program. Today I thing Linux has a really big problem because of games not working o= n Linux. This is prior to fix, I know that there are some games that are ac= tually working fine and almost easier to install in Linux than on windows. But what if I want to install a game from 95 or so, that will not be easy. So as an conclusion we can say that every thing that a user is about to do on a Linux computer shall be done with a maximum of ONE mouse click or ONE double click. If we together can manage to get this to work maybe we can think about taking market shares from Microsoft in about ten years or so. It's not the user fault that he or she don't use Linux it is and will always be Linux fault. It is just to hard to understand... Windows is a easy thing to understand, and learn. When I first met my computer, I didn't have Internet. Or any forums to ask for help in. I just learned with time. So please stop discussing this "bug" and start thinking in terms whit out forums, support or data admins. A Ubuntu computer shall work with out even having to visit a Ubuntu- forum. It shall just work with whatever the user wants to get done on his or hers Ubuntu computer, than we can get it mainstream. So for good sake don't look at Microsoft as an devil that just kill all ways of getting Linux mainstream, the problem lies within Linux, it is to hard to use for any regular user. And just so you know, I don't hate Windows and I don't love Linux, I just dont like them. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: nodata (ubuntu-nodata) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 08:03:51 -0000 Message-Id: <20060814080351.24756.92605.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> @Christian Aden "Before we even can think about making, Ubuntu Linux mainstream we MUST get= all well know programs that work on a Windows PC to work on a Ubuntu PC." We need _equivalents_ of _popular_ applications on a Ubuntu PC, not _all_we= ll-known_programs_. And for most applications, there is. "But a regular user just want to click and install. A regular user don't wa= nt to open a Package manager or a terminal to install a program." Well a user is going to have to open something to tell the computer that th= ey want a particular piece of software on their computer. As long as that s= omething is a piece of cake to use, the user will be happy. An "install sof= tware" icon, and a place to type is better than the Windows way: Find vendor website, register for download, click download link in e-mail, = run installer, ignore all the questions and keep clicking next, now reboot. versus Linux: find package using apt, install using apt. An easy gui wrappe= r will improve this for users. "Windows is a easy thing to understand" It seems easier because people forget that they learnt Windows. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?q?Christian_Ad=C3=A9en_=28christian-adeen=29?= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 09:07:43 -0000 Message-Id: <20060814090743.24639.10977.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> @Nodata "Before we even can think about making, Ubuntu Linux mainstream we MUST get= all well know programs that work on a Windows PC to work on a Ubuntu PC." <--We need _equivalents_ of _popular_ applications on a Ubuntu PC, not _all= _well-known_programs_. And for most applications, there is.--> Well it seams to me that this is the main problem, that developers of Linux and other open source OSes. And "We need _equivalents_ of _popular_ applications on a Ubuntu PC" Does not seam to have solved the problem. "But a regular user just want to click and install. A regular user don't wa= nt to open a Package manager or a terminal to install a program." <--Well a user is going to have to open something to tell the computer that= they want a particular piece of software on their computer. As long as tha= t something is a piece of cake to use, the user will be happy. An "install = software" icon, and a place to type is better than the Windows way: Find vendor website, register for download, click download link in e-mail, = run installer, ignore all the questions and keep clicking next, now reboot. versus Linux: find package using apt, install using apt. An easy gui wrappe= r will improve this for users.--> Of course the Linux way is an better way, but what happens if i the program I want to use don't exist in the apt-library? Than the Linux way is alot harder to understand. "Windows is a easy thing to understand" <--It seems easier because people forget that they learnt Windows--> My mother for an example does not know how to use Windows, but she would chose Windows because of it's user friendly way of learning. It is essayer to learn Windows she think. What I think we have to do: Create a "John Doe" and from this man create a target group. "John Doe" has to be that man who walks to a computer store and asks what computer to buy, and "John Doe" is the man who not ask why he should by that computer. Men and women like "John Doe" should be the target group, and Ubuntu should be developed for this persons only. A more advanced user should also be able to use Ubuntu. In the beginning of my Linux use age I was not "John Doe" I knew how to get help, from forums and wikis. But "John Doe" doesn't. When we know that "John Doe" can use Ubuntu, we can start marketing Ubuntu = for the resellers. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: nodata (ubuntu-nodata) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 07:31:47 -0000 Message-Id: <20060816073147.20172.57873.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> @Christian Aden "Well it seams to me that this is the main problem, that developers of Linu= x and other open source OSes. And "We need _equivalents_ of _popular_ appli= cations on a Ubuntu PC" Does not seam to have solved the problem." Well porting proprietary products to Linux would defeat the point of Linux. I don't see your point. "what happens if i the program I want to use don't exist in the apt-library? Than the Linux way is alot harder to understand." Yep. It has to be in apt, or they can't install it. "My mother for an example does not know how to use Windows, but she would chose Windows because of it's user friendly way of learning. It is essayer to learn Windows she think." She would chose what a technical person, or the shop recommends to her. Or = what was available. "Windows being easier to learn" is an opinion, an opinion I disagree with. = Compare Windows, with its cacophony of menus, with Gnome. Windows has a lot of strangeness. "Start" being used to shutdown the pc? Marvellous. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: ankush_kalkote (ankush-kalkote) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 22:15:48 -0000 Message-Id: <20060819221549.12488.69825.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> What u say is infinite loop; Bcz no linux has the same user-friendliness as Windows and morever The free= -software development has no direction whrereas the Microsoft is neatly org= anized and development is well directed. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Aaron (soulblade) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 23:15:38 -0000 Message-Id: <20060819231538.12488.21241.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> This bug can be found here in the UK. It is reproducible on my i386 / EMT64 based computers. Macs that are Based around the EFI were safe, but the bug can be reproduced using bookcamp. Also where I work around 5000 PC's have many versions of it. The worst being version 95 that does not need any user intervention to crash. And not close behind XP with its auto mass emailing function. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?q?Sebasti=C3=A1n_Ben=C3=ADtez_=28sbenitezb=29?= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 01:44:11 -0000 Message-Id: <20060820014411.12543.59700.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Here in Argentina is too extremely widespread. Even the government can be held accountable of spreading this bug, as seen in this page: http://www.programamipc.com.ar/ But what's worse is this bug is not only in a PC bug, also can be found in people's mind. It has stealth mode active by default when infects a new person, so it is totally normal for the host to think it isn't infected or there is something wrong. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: tinker404 (ptaylor404) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 08:06:34 -0000 Message-Id: <20060820080634.23667.41788.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> How many more times !!! It's not a bug it's a "feature". ;-P --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Utsav Pardasani (pardasaniman) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 17:18:53 -0000 Message-Id: <20060820171853.12488.81905.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Maybe "one step at a time" I'd like to see a "ubuntu compatible" logo on PCs that are out there. This way one can ensure a quality ubuntu experience, unblemished by random proprietary hardware. It's one thing to sell pre-installed, it's another to sell pre-installed AND usefull. There should be a gradual taking of marketshare, people are not going to understand why Ubuntu can't play MP3s/WMfishyFudge out of the box. They may pop in a driver CD for their webcam, USB toy, and then find it not work. They'll just return the computer to the store, perhaps, they'll even claim it's defective. Ubuntu's target market is the same as Apples: People who are somewhat computer literate, open minded and demanding an alternative. Apple has developed and "educated" its user-base with time, let's not lose perspective about the capabilities of our still young (albeit powerful) OS is. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tomas Pollak (tomaspollak) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 06:31:10 -0000 Message-Id: <20060821063110.23623.64143.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Here in Chile, the situation is basically the same as in all the other countries mentioned here. However, there's some light at the end of the tunnel. Some (select few) people in the government seem to know about Linux, and some good initiatives have been going on. For instance, we have an Educational Distro called EduLinux (www.elulinux.cl) which is financed by the government. As someone said above, I think the source of the bug resides mainly in people's heads. People are too lazy to try something else that Windows (even though they know it's gonna make their computing lives better!). And of course, the lack of marketing that Linux has ever had. All the FUD that Microsoft has succesfully spread across people and companies (specially them). Anyway, I'm quite optimistic as to what can be done, considering all that Ubuntu has accomplished in so few years, making Linux more popular. However, even though Ubuntu has had a lot of marketing due to is enormous community, I believe that Linux won't become _really popular_ unless there's more collaborative "spread the word" campaigns among distros. It seems that Ubuntu, Gentoo, SUSE, whatever, are actually "competing" between them (which is not bad in some ways, but for communicational purposes it is). Perhaps we should follow Firefox's example. What about something like SpreadingLinux? ;) I mean..."Hackers of the World.. UNITE!" --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: ChrisLees (christopher-lees) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 07:15:24 -0000 Message-Id: <20060821071525.23623.84784.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Like http://www.getgnulinux.org/ ? Bug replicated here in Perth, Australia; but at least there is Linux awareness. At least one guy who works at Dick Smith's Joondalup uses Linux, and I've found a computer store in that same suburb that I think probably sells Linux (has the Linux and Debian logos painted on the front window). --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Andreika (zorin-andrey) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 18:43:00 -0000 Message-Id: <20060821184300.12543.30079.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> This is one of ways to fix that bloody bug : taken from : http://www.dv1000forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=3D1328 Post subject: Get a refund for your Windows licence I've ordered my dv1000 from hpshopping. Unfortunately they do not offer the= dv1000 with FreeDOS or Linux (other laptops from HP that do not get sold o= n hpshopping come with the option of FreeDOS as an operating system and som= e other manufactureres even offer preinstalled Linux) so it came with Windo= ws XP Home. I did not accept the Windows EULA that gets displayed when firs= t booting up the laptop. The EULA clearly states: Quote: If you do not agree to the terms of this EULA, you may not use or copy the SOFTWARE, and you should promptly contact Manufacturer for instructions on return of the unused product(s) in accordance with Manufacturer's return policies. (See http://proprietary.clendons.co.nz/licenses/eula/windowsxphome-eula.htm= for the entire EULA.) So I called up hpshopping and explained that I didn't accept the EULA and wanted a refund for my Windows licence as stated in the EULA. The call center agent and her supervisor were both very friendly (but unfamiliar with the idea that someone might not want to use Windows or not accept the EULA) and the supervisor finally offered to refund $69 (the difference between XP Home and XP Professional). Hopefully, if more people ask for a refund they will start offering the option of getting a laptop without Windows in the first place." --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: b (ben-ekran) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 22:47:06 -0000 Message-Id: <20060825224706.5577.96218.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Here in Vancouver, BC Canada I can see that you can go to the local library and see a sign on the computers that says: "Internet and OpenOffice" And you can hapily create documents, particially, outside the market share of M$. Of course only particially since you still have to use openOffice on windows. Its a start. First time I have seen a big public institution installing OSS rather than MS for some tasks. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: deesy58 (deesy58) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 08:06:05 -0000 Message-Id: <20060828080606.17097.5388.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> After looking at Red Hat 7.0 and 7.3 a couple of years ago, I became curious about Ubuntu and Kubuntu. I also purchased the Official Ubuntu Book, so I know about Bug #1. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for this one to be resolved, however. Documentation, when it exists at all, is scattered all over the Internet. Dapper is, IMHO, relatively buggy, and the so-called "community" of Ubuntu users might, or might not provide help, support and advice to those users experiencing problems with installation and configuration. I have seen forum boards with questions from newbies that have gone unanswered for over a month. What kind of support is that? For the most part, Ubuntu and Kubuntu procedures seem counter-intuitive, and each installation of Dapper appears to perform a little differently. It appears that Ubuntu has taken on more of the characteristics of a philosophy or a religion than of a technology, and there are a good many evangelical believers out there. But I think you will be waiting for a very, very long time for a resolution to Bug #1. Criticize Microsoft and Windows all you want! Their documentation is centralized and comprehensive, and their support is prompt and conscientious. I have never had a question posted on a Microsoft Support Board go unanswered. It is relatively easy for a home user to purchase a shrink-wrapped Windows XP, take it home, and install it with no major problems. Ubuntu and Kubuntu can't day that. This product (ubuntu) is clearly not ready for "prime time." Just my opinion, but it is enough to make me want to give Red Hat, or maybe SuSE another try ... Deesy58 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alec Wright (alecjw) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 21:18:45 -0000 Message-Id: <20060829211845.5577.93398.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I've tagged it as a security risk becuase windoze, by default, has all of it's ports open and, worst of all, you might think your files are password protected, but the aren't encrypted in any way. Just put the HDD in a linux machine and voila - there are you personal files which are supposed to be password protected. Also, any other user can just remove your password in windoze. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: The-Excel (excel-2006) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 14:47:41 -0000 Message-Id: <20060830144741.17097.97169.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Is this a joke or just a humorous way to state your long-term goal? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alec Wright (alecjw) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:17:31 -0000 Message-Id: <20060830181731.17263.15549.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I think that this bug should have an importance level of its own because it is the cause of most of the rest of the bugs - most people use windoze so hardware manafacturers don't do drivers for linux. Also, there is a much smaller linux community, meaming that bugs don't get found or squashed quickly enough. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Arun John(Zack) (arunzjohn) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 18:22:50 -0000 Message-Id: <20060906182250.3977.98835.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> form a I-Team(inter connected via internet) to educate ppl bout ubuntu,provide them with ubunscores based on performance which they later can redeem..inject free trainings among corporate youth which would be hadled by the I-PR-Team..i hav a complete master paln for the rising..letz hav a con if at all to take this bug seriously.. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: jz (jz+) Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2006 22:06:34 -0000 Message-Id: <20060909220634.16647.24536.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I'm looking forward to the day when the built for windows stickers on machines are replaced with something that indicates Linux compatibility ("built for Ubuntu" maybe). I think the Ubuntu community could really be the force that finally gets PC manufacturers to examine more closely how their products are used and add better support for the growing Linux community. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Matthew McGowan (mmcg069) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 22:23:16 -0000 Message-Id: <20060910222316.12752.94118.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> This computer is built from technology that is openly documented. That sounds about right. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Luca Della Vedova (lucadellavedov) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 15:11:43 -0000 Message-Id: <20060912151143.17774.69986.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I think that a better graphic can increase linux popularity... For example most of my friends waits for windows vista not for new features but only for the graphics... I know that it's a quite stupid thing but it is very important for some people... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: darkbane (shanerc) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 03:56:23 -0000 Message-Id: <20060913035623.17774.80071.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I don't know if this was mention or not. I apologize if it has.... With Windoze preinstalled, they turn on their computer, it works, it to them it the concept of "if it's not broke, don't fix it". Their attitude would be the same if it was pre-installed with Linux. It's installed it works, don't change it. What if the consumer was given the option of an OS. Sell computers with a blank slate. Don't preinstall an OS. Let them choose. Give them the option of A.) paying about $1000 or more for the OS and office applications they need, or B.) give them an OS and all of the applications they need free of charge. This would a stronge attack on the bug for a lot of custom PC builders and smaller PC shops. Just a thought. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alec Wright (alecjw) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 16:01:58 -0000 Message-Id: <20060916160158.28823.69584.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Apparently (according to most computer manafacturers who I've contacted), there's a law in the UK that all computers have to ship with Windoze... The sensible solution to this would be to have windoze 95 on a 1GB partition on the hard disk, and as soon as the computer starts, linux reformats the windoze partition to swapfs... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Chris Rose (chris-vault5) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 12:03:34 -0000 Message-Id: <20060920120334.23105.71090.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> To prevent piracy computers must ship with /an/ operating system, not nessecerily with Windows. Dell ships some machines with FreeDOS for example. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: towsonu2003 (towsonu2003) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 03:14:40 -0000 Message-Id: <20060921031440.23105.78656.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> > To prevent piracy computers must ship with /an/ operating system, not nes= secerily with=20 > Windows. Is this according to UK law? that's nonsense at best. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Chris Rose (chris-vault5) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 09:13:06 -0000 Message-Id: <20060921091306.23036.60041.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> It isn't law, more a generally accepted industry regulation. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Popa Adrian Marius (mapopa) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 10:17:21 -0000 Message-Id: This book might help in moving enterprise desktops IBM has published a final draft of its "Redbook" titled Linux Client Migration Cookbook, Version 2: A Practical Planning and Implementation Guide for Migrating to Desktop Linux. The 376-page book, which targets enterprises needing to begin an evaluation of desktop Linux http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS5790800597.html --=20 developer flamerobin.org --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Popa Adrian Marius (mapopa) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 10:39:52 -0000 Message-Id: Road with cubic stones - myth On my street i live there is an interesting road with cubic stones Half of it is covered with asphalt and half is with old cubic stones , One day they old part will be covered too with asphalt but until then we use both paths. What this have to do with ubuntu/linux ? Old cubic stone path is representing windows with all the costs maintaining it (you need to pay workers to fix it and do manual repetitive work like reinstalls) and the new road is ubuntu/linux with modern look and feel (more secure too) We can try to be constructive and install linux with dual boot option (win/lin) also on all computers (where you are forced to use windows) you can install vmware player or qemu with free ubuntu images . Someday an installer should be created with both or live cd :1.install vmware player , 2. install/copy and run ubuntu image or live cd from within windows Search for ubuntu vmware images (or create new one with vmware server) http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/cat/48/ Another way to attract new users (designers) is to show them cool themes or 3d new look (xgl) http://www.supriyadisw.net/2006/09/ultimate-ubuntu-dapper-look-like-osx ps:another way is to show your coworkers that windows can work like an legacy image (in vmware) http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=3D84275 --=20 developer flamerobin.org --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Wolf Halton (saphil) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 19:55:29 -0000 Message-Id: <20060922195529.17562.13969.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Cubic stones fix does not work in Conyers GA metaphor has dependencies unmet. =20 UNIX is 20 years older than dos. UNIX is cubic stones here. Brick roads here have lasted for over 100 years. Asphalt fixes have to be replaced every year (like windows) Fixing old brick roads holes with new bricks takes longer than pouring some asphalt, but fix lasts 100 years, too. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: cyber_rigger (cyber-rigger) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 19:05:58 -0000 Message-Id: <20060928190558.2315.6882.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I've been keeping a list of some companies working on bug #1. Here are some companies selling preinstalled desktop Linux. http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23168/ I suggest that when you buy your next computer use a vendor that offers preinstalled Linux. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: towsonu2003 (towsonu2003) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:14:26 -0000 Message-Id: <451C2D22.2050209@gmail.com> cyber_rigger wrote: > I've been keeping a list of some companies working on bug #1. >=20 > Here are some companies selling preinstalled desktop Linux. > http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23168/ >=20 > I suggest that when you buy your next computer > use a vendor that offers preinstalled Linux. >=20 ah I wish they could sell brand name computers cheaper :) "an HP laptop [512MB RAM, core duo] with Ubuntu 6.10 $690" -> this would be a dream come true PS. thanks for the link --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: SlOrbA (lari-korpi) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 07:52:14 -0000 Message-Id: <20060929075214.2244.21114.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> The main problem is that the reseller gets more profit when the M$ tax is inuse. The computer business is not a fast growing market in developed world and the reseller aren't going to be compensated by the growing volumes, which in many cases would lead into need to do excess growth on the organization. So when the volume remains constant and the unit price rises the reseller are happier, because it's extra profit with no extra investments. A workaround to this bug there for include a increasement on unit price, no effect on volumes and thus increasing profit with option on widening the scope of providers. One solution that has these requirments is the service model if it can be introduced into the reseller chanels. In this the customer would buy the installation and the initial subscribtion from the computer reseller and the reseller would be able to collect profit from both of these transactions. The M$ dominance demonstrates that the bigest incentive is the ability make profit and the ability to provide your own added value comes after that. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Roger Filmyer (rfilmyer) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 22:05:55 -0000 Message-Id: <20061003220555.5260.94641.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Easily reproducible in PA. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: swamytk (swamytk) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 06:24:10 -0000 Message-Id: <20061004062411.8501.76681.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I have been assigned this task by myself. I use to talk about Linux,Ubuntu and free software when ever there is a space to talk. I use to get the Ubuntu CDs from shipit and distribute to non linux people (note that, i am not distributing to people who already use linux). I fix the Ubuntu stickers on my home, Bike and workspace,... I use to review Linux distributions and report bug if any. This is how I am working on this bug :-) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: ChrisLees (christopher-lees) Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2006 08:47:21 -0000 Message-Id: <20061007084721.5185.35163.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> While shopping for RAM, I reproduced the bug. Upon asking a computer salesperson if they would consider selling computers with Linux preloaded, I was given the reply "No; Linux is a good operating system but it doesn't have retail value". Also, a support customer was affected by the symptoms of the bug. Their computers were taking many minutes to start up due to the installed PC security suite, but migration of their computers was not possible because their child's school teaches Windows-specific computing. The bug obviously affects Edubuntu, and I suggest a report be filed against it. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Bernhard A. Jungert (bernhard-jungert) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 17:10:30 -0000 Message-Id: <20061016171030.6980.13953.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Partly present at my working place: All the "operative" infrastructure (3000 Small Servers + 100 bigger ones) i= s running Linux, but the whole Backoffice (about 2500 Machines) are running= Windows. All in all i just saw 2 programs which required Win, used on probably 10 - = 20 Boxes... Switching could be easy, even the Laptops were issued just work fine, i tri= ed with Knoppix and Ubuntu Live. I cant get it. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alex Tanner (alex-alex-tanner) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 15:12:01 -0000 Message-Id: <20061017151201.26971.73941.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I tried to boot kubuntu live CD at Bestbuy and got kicked out. I told the GeekSquad peice of crap that I was going to buy the PC if it could boot kubuntu but they still threw me out. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: towsonu2003 (towsonu2003) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:35:00 -0000 Message-Id: <20061017173500.29535.6581.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> > got kicked out like physically, really? lol > "No; Linux is a good operating system but it doesn't have retail value" so they think they can't make money out of it. linspire's approach may be a possible fix to this (approach vendors directly so they sell your distro). but instead of walmart, I'd approach HP & IBM etc. > because their child's school teaches Windows-specific computing I wonder what that means --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:13:25 -0000 Message-Id: <45356395.70405@canonical.com> Alex Tanner wrote: > I tried to boot kubuntu live CD at Bestbuy and got kicked out. I told > the GeekSquad peice of crap that I was going to buy the PC if it could > boot kubuntu but they still threw me out. > =20 Wow - that's pretty poor form on their part. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Marco Cimmino (cimmo) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:29:14 -0000 Message-Id: <20061019122914.29568.14912.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> In my opinion this bug is also a Linux failure. This is because there are THOUSAND of different distributions, kernels, pat= ched kernels, libraries ecc. I know this is an advantage for someone, but for companies that have to wri= te drivers and have: - different version of libs in different distros - different directory for libs - different way to install something - different kernel how can we ask to produce a driver for all these stuff? We have to make ONE= or TWO big distros and ask for support for those two, it's the only way th= at can save Linux and put up market share! Writing drivers, software and testing all this stuff in a so heterogeneous = environment cost too much!=20 Linux pay their free concept with less driver and apps. In my opinion of course! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: towsonu2003 (towsonu2003) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:00:17 -0000 Message-Id: <453776E1.1000008@gmail.com> Cimmo wrote: > In my opinion this bug is also a Linux failure. This is because there > are THOUSAND of different distributions, kernels, patched kernels, > libraries ecc. >=20 > I know this is an advantage for someone, but for companies that have > to write drivers and have: - different version of libs in different > distros - different directory for libs - different way to install > something - different kernel >=20 > how can we ask to produce a driver for all these stuff? We have to > make ONE or TWO big distros and ask for support for those two, it's > the only way that can save Linux and put up market share! Writing > drivers, software and testing all this stuff in a so heterogeneous > environment cost too much! they'll publish the specs, the community will do the rest... there usually is at least one person who knows how to write code *and* who uses one particular piece of hardware. not that hard for a company to publish information about their own hardware, is it? ;) or better yet, release the source code of the drivers: we'll compile the distro-specific binaries if necessary (when the source code of a driver is released under the GPL, afaik it is included into a later release of the kernel unless it's some poor coding). --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: DC@DR (bvdung81) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 21:50:59 -0000 Message-Id: <20061020215059.20673.77296.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> This is the most "funny" and so-true "bug" I've ever seen. It's sad but true. What can we do to spread out the word "FOSS/Linux/Ubuntu" to the whole world population?! I know it's tough, but rewarding, to get people to realize how powerful and _just_work_ FOSS/Linux/Ubuntu are...Damn, I would so desperately love to see Ubuntu growing as fast as Firefox does currently...It would be so great :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tommy Williams (talen-quickblade) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 15:29:17 -0000 Message-Id: <20061021152917.20734.16200.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I was able to confirm this bun in ~95% of instances during my testing. In addition I need to point out that some of the offices currently sporting this bug are chained to the Windows operating system by large software companies (like Intuit (author of Quicken products) that do not offer a ported version of their code. When discussing this bug with parties currently coping with its impact, all stated their willingness to correct the problem if their mission critical software ran on a linux Operating system. In response to this I would like to make an addendum to the above bug report: When observing / participating in the continuation of this bug: 1) Remind affected parties that applications for supporting windows softwar= e on linux do exist and are inexpensive compared to the cost of the Windows= Operating system (Crossover Office). And some free solutions are available= through not as feature rich (WINE). 2) Document which applications you or the affected party use that are not a= vailable in a linux flavor. 3) Email the respective companies questioning their lack of an available li= nux product. a) continue email correspondence with company until: * they explain why they do not offer a linux product. * they explain when (or why not) they will offer their product in= a linux flavor. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: SkySpy247 (account2) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 22:57:44 -0000 Message-Id: <20061023225744.29568.57367.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Funny approach to a very serious issue !! OSS desktop installs need to be "marketed" for what they are ... UPGRADES !! So far I haven't been able to find a distro that will gather all the appropriate settings and data (pictures, MP3's, documents, spreadsheets, preferences, bookmaks, e-mail settings, all of it !!) from the outgoing M$ environment and put them in their propper places when the "upgraded" system re-starts. It's too late for too many users to "start from scratch" and, no, folks will not properly backup their data to be incorporated in their new environment. The upgrade sequence needs to do it. On the up side, 6 of 7 of my home PC's run *nix (FC4, and PCLinuxOS). My employer won't let me dump XP on my work machine. Cheers !! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Douglas Moyes (aragorn-stellimare) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 23:23:53 -0000 Message-Id: <20061023232353.29371.79095.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I sell computers, specifically in the Los Angeles, CA, USA area (though I plan to open a shop up in Vancouver, BC, Canada in a year or so, but I'll probably leave an office in LA too). The problem goes very deep because the way that Microsoft requires OEM's and small PC builders like me to market PCs: When giving the price of a PC we're not supposed to list the Microsoft OS as a separate component with a separate price associated with it. This effectively hides from the consumer the fact that a little screwed up piece of software accounts for a significant cost of their PC. What I do to get around this is offer a =E2=80=9Cdiscount=E2=80=9D for not = shipping a computer win Microsoft Windows, or I offer custom systems simply with Linux or no operating system at all. For many people, they don't require the use of MS Windows or Microsoft Office, they can do everything they need in Linux, Open Office, and the 32-bit version of Firefox (Yes, the 64-bit versions of Linux should ship with a 32-bit browser so that the stupid Flash plugin can be installed so that all web pages, especially those made by incredibly stupid web designers, can be viewed-- there is no 64-bit or open source alternative available at this time). Anyone in the USA can get a Windows-Free laptop from me with GeForce graphics, and 100% Linux compatible hardware (including the wi-fi card). All of my PCs are built with Linux in mind. Bug me at sales@stellimare.com :-D For those of you in other countries-- I can't export yet. I am required by US law to get a permit for each country and type of hardware I wish to export (and, as you know, all permits cost money). Due to other screwed up laws, I can't export Linux because it has advanced encryption technology. I think the export laws in Canada will be a little more sane, but we'll see. There are many things in this country that have been screwed up since September 11, 2001 enough so to drive me out. Fear and hatred is a great way to excuse many things, just ask Adolph Hitler, Saddam, and Osama Bin Ladin. America now has it's secret police... Out the four Linux distributions I've used, Ubuntu is one of the better, wi= th a few Caveats: Why on earth aren't the compiler tools installed with the= default system!?! The C compiler is one of the the basic Unix tools, in ad= dition to the the Bourne Shell, VI, and cp! Not installing cc is a sacrileg= e! Also, not everyone has a high speed Internet connection, even in afflue= nt America, so if not all the available packages for a basic usable system= (which includes a video/DVD player like mplayer, and finance program like = GnuCash) fit on the CD, then separate ISO package CDs should be made availa= ble for offline install of software. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Yao Wei (medicalwei) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 00:17:54 -0000 Message-Id: <20061028001754.26024.9300.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> It is really a BIG PROBLEM. First, schools should teach the concept of free software, and how to use FL= /OSS. One day I asked the dean why our school doesn't teach FL/OSS, she men= tioned that the school is bound to teach commerical softwares because they = paid the softwares.=20 Second, software developers have to develop softwares for a wide wange of p= latforms.(most for game developers, because my classmates are poisoned in g= ames and also Windows.) Third, There is too variety of Linux distributions. It makes people hard to= determine which Linux distro they want to use. (Is it a connatural problem= ?) I consider Windows as a gaming platform, but it is useless to do something more important. /* poor grammer, sorry */ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 02:09:53 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0610271909t14f0f54qb0e87e7d778fcc06@mail.gmail.com> It looks like "Medical-Wei" has hit on one of the biggest problems, namely the "variety" of Linux distros. There is too much unnessary friction among the various groups, some for the valid reason that they are commercial, such as "RED HAT". But Debian-Ubuntu-Mepis for example should work together, they don't. This problem is as big as: "which is the best distro?" On 10/27/06, Medical-Wei wrote: > > It is really a BIG PROBLEM. > > First, schools should teach the concept of free software, and how to use > FL/OSS. One day I asked the dean why our school doesn't teach FL/OSS, she > mentioned that the school is bound to teach commerical softwares because > they paid the softwares. > Second, software developers have to develop softwares for a wide wange of > platforms.(most for game developers, because my classmates are poisoned in > games and also Windows.) > Third, There is too variety of Linux distributions. It makes people hard > to determine which Linux distro they want to use. (Is it a connatural > problem?) > > I consider Windows as a gaming platform, but it is useless to do > something more important. > > /* poor grammer, sorry */ > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 > --=20 > http://adventures-with-the-rascals.blogspot.com/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: towsonu2003 (towsonu2003) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:07:07 -0000 Message-Id: <4542D76B.2080303@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Allen Graham wrote: > It looks like "Medical-Wei" has hit on one of the biggest problems, namely > the "variety" of Linux distros. There is too much unnessary friction among > the various groups, some for the valid reason that they are commercial, s= uch > as "RED HAT". But Debian-Ubuntu-Mepis for example should work together, t= hey > don't. This problem is as big as: "which is the best distro?" >=20 I have to disagree on this one... distro variety is nice, until you get to a point where you can roll out your own distro (then you won't need to look around to choose a distro). the variety ensures that everyone gets a distro to their own specific needs & desires. These change according to a range of variables such as the aim one has (business / server / home use / gaming / showoff / other) in mind, the machine's age (very old / old / new-ish), the favorite X environment (gnome / kde / icewm / xfce / openbox etc), and even the favorite email client (thunderbird / mutt / evolution / etc). It's rather difficult to attract this kind of diversity with just one (or a couple of major) distros. and people don't like much to tweak this and that to get to what they need (especially if they can tweak this and that once, and roll the result out as a new distro). for the "which is the best distro" question, there never is an answer. (except) The best distro is the one that fits your needs and desires the best. Until you get to the point where you are ready to make a choice, you have to either try out a few or go to a site like http://www.zegeniestudios.net/ldc/index.php?firsttime=3Dtrue (google for "distro chooser") and trust in their answer after you take the survey. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFQtdqLM1JzWwJYEYRAjtyAJ9yncSGWv23i3SKu42r7KFscJtaLQCfTUsA zRZKeXcitohoFDBKk2YtLSo=3D =3Diios -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 06:10:43 -0000 Message-Id: <4542F463.1070104@canonical.com> Allen Graham wrote: > But Debian-Ubuntu-Mepis for example should work together, they > don't.=20 > =20 Actually, there's a tremendous amount of collaboration between those three. And then there are incidents where people disagree. If you look at the actual flow of code, there's a lot that goes in both directions. Mark --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 13:13:45 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0610290513x2e03e8ckf679486441093484@mail.gmail.com> We note that Mark makes an excellent point, but most of us believe that the spirit of co-operation emanates from "Ubuntu". Again, thanks to Canonical. We need more people like Mark, that would overcome the "BUG" problem !!!! Allen On 10/28/06, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > > Allen Graham wrote: > > But Debian-Ubuntu-Mepis for example should work together, they > > don't. > > > Actually, there's a tremendous amount of collaboration between those > three. And then there are incidents where people disagree. If you look > at the actual flow of code, there's a lot that goes in both directions. > > Mark > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 > --=20 > http://adventures-with-the-rascals.blogspot.com/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: towsonu2003 (towsonu2003) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 09:01:40 -0000 Message-Id: <20061031090140.17734.32253.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Only if we could get institutions like universities, government agencies, schools, NGOs to use linux, we would have a serious shot at eliminating this bug for good. people are exposed to and use these institutions' computers and get used to whatever they provide. this is my girlfriend's idea, who says if this was the case when she first started studying at her university, where she had to work extensively with that institution's computers, she wouldn't have any problems switching to linux for good. but right now, she is a Windows addict and there is no way she will switch (not until XP deprecates and I kinda "force" her to switch instead of purchasing a new pc). for now, even if a university has a linux box, they hide the OS as much as possible (for example, an old PC at UMBC's parking services runs Debian but hides this by locking the screen in such a way that anyone not familiar with Debian's bookmarks would think that's Windows running). institutions should be "brave" enough to run and show off their Linux boxes. Moreover, they should be "clever" enough to know that if they run linux, they won't be paying $$$ to licenses. On the issue of license fees, why would, for example, an animal shelter purchase Microsoft (or go thru the hops and tops of getting free licenses with much effort), especially when the $$ or the effort that goes to MS means their animals' lives... I don't get it... Institutions need to see how their budget would change for the better without the MS fees and security maintenance efforts... And unfortunately, I don't see a way to let them know about this except by contacting each and every institution one can think of to propose a switch to Linux. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: HighlandMagic (highlandmagic) Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 20:59:21 -0000 Message-Id: <20061101205921.1737.269.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Microsoft are a greedy shower, and as for gates, the man could by half the = world with all his personal fortune, or should I say a tiny biy of it? I have used computers for more than 15 years and in that time from dos 4.0 = through to Windows XP Pro I have never paid Microsoft and Gates one penny/c= ent. All my software I have found through friends and the internet and all = I CAN SAY IS thanks Bill baby you certainly have not profited from me! As for Linux I have to say it is far and away far more stable and so far, v= irus free, and as for ubuntu I have tried an old copy but it was, I have to= say, not very good at all, mandrake was excellent and various other flavou= rs, but none could ever get my winmodem to work, wonder if kubuntu can mana= ge it.I would love all vendors to sell computers software free, so we the e= nd user, could make an informed choice.=20 I will do my bit to distribute the free discs I shall be recieving shortly = (ubuntu) to undermine in a very small way, the swine that are Microsoft. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: unsung (shyguyfrenzy) Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 00:21:37 -0000 Message-Id: <20061103002137.12711.3820.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I have to admit myself, that this bug is huge in PA. People including myself have been pretty ignorant to the whole idea that there ARE other operating systems out there. For instance it wasn't until last year, that I even realized how badly I "wanted" a Mac or even knew how one ran. So when I bought a Mac computer, I was excited until I tried to use anything on it, and realized that in order to run a ton of major applications you needed UPGRADES. At the time my computer was running 10.2.8. So all the popular known installs would install bounce on the dock and disappear. A couple months later I sold it and got a PC. I've been using PC's for a number of years (I did start out on an old apple aloooong time ago but that's other news) so once again arrogance and ignorance is partially to blame. Then when I got my PC I discovered that the half wit who installed (he said he upgrade from NT to XP) XP he foobarred something and there wasn't any sound. At first it didn't matter, but you know you are doing something, project and you need tunes man. Well I tried fixing it myself, and came across someone who told me to try Ubuntu, I was hesitant because I'd never heard of "linux" before and was programmed to think that Windows was the end all of everything. I fought with the decision for a month, until I foobarred everything up so bad Windows didn't even run. I quickly burned off a copy and tried linux. Now, I admit it was an easy install. There wasn't 30 minutes of looking at the same splash screen of Microsoft XP features over and over again, and you could pretty much surf the web or other things while you install. But after installation I had no idea what to do next. I didn't know you needed to the gstreamer plugins, or to apt-get anything. I didn't know how to mount my drive because all of that stuff ALREADY WORKED in windows (aside from sound) which by the way sound worked right out of the box with Ubuntu. I think I reinstalled Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Xubuntu/Gentoo at least 6 or 7 times, and obtained Windows again which is what I'm currently running. I also have to admit, it isn't easy coming back now. I've been doing things the "ubuntu" way for a little over a month and still try and use the "terminal/command line" for everything. The only reason I came back to Windows? Compatibility with certain things I wanted (Last.fm never worked for me on Ubuntu, even Lastproxy or lastexit were duds) and games. (RO, which ended up eating up too much HD and was slow so I uninstalled.) The point of this is to show that I am indeed in that majority of the population who are pretty ignorant to ubuntu's ways. Ubuntu IS glorious, and I WILL go back (as soon as I get a livecd to work in this dang computer) but for now. M$ I guess. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Albert Cardona (cardona) Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2006 12:37:44 -0000 Message-Id: <20061104123744.27894.69951.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Education. Seamless hardware recognition. Education. Meet the users mental model. Education. What can be done automatically should never be visible from the desktop. Education. Early exposure to Ubuntu or other GNU/Linux: primary schools, home, high-school, universities. Education. And public awareness! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Manoj Nair (manoj.nair) Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:07:50 -0000 Message-Id: <20061108170750.25827.55077.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Lets face it, There are two major reasons for why microsoft dominates the desktop PC market. The first major reason for the success that windows enjoys is due to the fact that countless softwares exist for windows, for every small task from helping an individual make a PDF file to complete softwares. Anything you wanna do, There is already a software for windows that exists to make your life easier. Whats more convenient is that you can get this software for free from your friendly neighborhood warez site. Another glaring problem is the device support. Any linux user will agree that there is a lack for supported devices in the linux world. The supportive answer given by linux gurus is to make your own drivers. Yea, right... like every single individual is a computer science graduate capable of writing drivers as easily as writing a word document. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: towsonu2003 (towsonu2003) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 00:49:07 -0000 Message-Id: <45527B03.5050405@gmail.com> Manoj Nair wrote: > Lets face it, There are two major reasons for why microsoft dominates > the desktop PC market. Should we be adding one more reason for this bug's existance? Namely, Linux companies (Novell) willing to do business (that specifically promotes the patent fud) with Microsoft? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: christthi (christthi) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 08:15:47 -0000 Message-Id: <20061120081547.25975.74072.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> The main reason why Microsoft dominates the market is market pressure itself, which means pressuring distributors and dealers to sell its crappy merchandise through "cross-marketing" (selling expensive Windows licenses, proprietary products, etc) and paying , schools, universities, as well as IT professionals to use and work under their software. Everybody that uses Linux will confirm that this free OS has overcome in the recent few years most of the incompatibility issues it was known for for a long time. The reality is that you'll have a hard time finding a desktop computer, or even laptop, that can't digest a Linux installation without much problems. I'm an ex-Mac user, and know for sure how false ideas on non-Windose software and products usually keep getting tagged with being "incompatible" and "user unfriendly", and this, years after these issues have been solved. One poster here previously said that Linux is still not an "idiot-proof" OS, and it's damn right! I do agree it's about time to pressure computer stores into accepting Ubuntu into their systems, but it's very idealistic, and unless radical and original means of action are taken by the Linux users, that won't change for a looong time. I rather think organisations such as Canonical are the best positioned for convincing computer store chains and local retailers as well to opt for Ubuntu or some other user-friendly distro (especially Fedora Core, Mandriva or SUSE). Sellers usually receive "orders from the top", and then they respond to customer demand in relation to that; never to customer's demands alone... BUT, there is a market where Linux CAN potentially do a takeover within a reasonable timeframe, and it has proven to be very viable in many contexts: the public sector. I mean mostly education (higher and lower) and government, or community organisations. There's already many groups everywhere in the world doing pressure and education for this to happen, and it's progressing quite well as far as I know... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: towsonu2003 (towsonu2003) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 08:32:40 -0000 Message-Id: <45616828.40703@gmail.com> christthi wrote: [snip] > BUT, there is a market where Linux CAN potentially do a takeover within > a reasonable timeframe, and it has proven to be very viable in many > contexts: the public sector. I mean mostly education (higher and lower) > and government, or community organisations. There's already many groups > everywhere in the world doing pressure and education for this to happen, > and it's progressing quite well as far as I know... >=20 A spec of mine* (linked to this bug) comes to my mind while reading the above suggestion :) * "Promote Linux on Public Domains" -- https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/institutional-linux --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: omoti (omoti) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 18:58:02 -0000 Message-Id: <20061120185802.7625.17424.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> hello I am from Japan I have just registeredd to this service but I can not understand=20 hot to use this site. My project is that=20 I have a Japanese language CGI game and I want to translate this product into English. Can anyone teach me how to use this site? thanks. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Michael (michaeljt) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 14:10:43 -0000 Message-Id: <20061123141043.4063.91709.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I suspect that, unlike their Linux counterparts, most Windows users choose their operating system based on pragmatic considerations, including but certainly not limited to, what is already on their computer. My wife has tried out Kubuntu and decided that it has too many rough edges - such as that we have to start the wireless manually, as NetworkManager doesn't like our card with WPA - and these cost her time and energy. She uses Linux if the computer is already running it and she has no major work to do, otherwise she will boot Windows. If people here are serious about getting Windows users to switch, they might want to try the following: get a Windows user (or several) to test run Ubuntu for a while, taking notes about difficulties and annoyances they encounter. Then submit bug reports for as many of those as possible, or add comments to existing reports. This will ensure that issues get looked at which genuinely matter to Windows users, and will probably be more effective than just announcing to all that Ubuntu is better - even if it is for you, it may not be for those you would like to convince. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Michael (michaeljt) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 14:12:16 -0000 Message-Id: <20061123141216.30105.54088.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Re the last, see Novell's http://www.betterdesktop.org/wiki/index.php?title=3DMain --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jarno H. (jarno-hiltunen-saunalahti) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 20:44:00 -0000 Message-Id: <20061123204400.4063.97650.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> True. MS has gained most of the markets. But nothing lasts forever, it=C2= =B4s possible to get people on move thru corporate field. We are living int= eresting times my friends.=20 Corps are currently evaluating next OS, and comparison is done between Linu= x or Vista. MS is currently pushing wildly Vista to corporates, but Linux h= as huge advantanges on this round. Vista is totally new system, binary brea= k and so called secure OS is already falling apart. Pro list in Vista is sh= ort. Some what better gaming experience and DX10. Where corps need these fe= atures? They don=C2=B4t. Why corporates have choosed Windoze before? Simple= , because of Office applications. OpenOffice wipes table with current MS Of= fice packages, when comparing price/quality rate. They know this and it can= be seen as the "patent war". With this harrassing they try to drive corpor= ates to Vista and choose the "unrisky" OS. The line must hold in this "war". What I mean by getting Ubuntu to people thru corporate field? Who uses comp= uters in corporates? People. If corporate chooses Linux, then people are fo= rced to "learn" using Linux and they will notice how easy it is to use. Per= haps they will acquire Linux to home also after this.=20 My girlfriend wonder once what has happend to WXP desktop, when I installed= Ubuntu and had (gnome) desktop open. (I have dual boot, because I=C2=B4m g= amer.) She has this funny idea, that Linux is still the command shell OS an= d most of the people has this same idea also. This general misunderstanding= should be removed from peoples head. We should install new thoughts like y= ou can do same things than with MS OS, and for free. It=C2=B4s different bu= t you can still browse, use im, skype, send email and make documents. Remember folks, open standard has always won. Why not in OS side also. Big thanks to Mark for support. -JH --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tobster (toby-whaymand) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 22:08:47 -0000 Message-Id: <20061123220847.4063.57776.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> It true in the UK too PC World and all the other stores only sale computers with MS Windows on it, but it gets worst! You try and find non Microsoft software like Star Office, it impossible, the only way I know how to buy Star Office is by Sun Micro Systems own web page. The only real bug that Ubuntu got is that it driving me crazy trying to find a printer that I know will work on it. But I do love Ubuntu --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: gourou76 (jimmypierre-rouen-france) Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 10:39:29 -0000 Message-Id: <20061125103929.29624.71577.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> We have a slightly different problem in France. Machines in stores are preinstalled with XP and Vista quite soon for a few reasons : 1. Training on Linux not generalized and not delivered by training centres = equally in ratio with MS courses. 2. People use XP at work and associated desktop applications. They do not f= eel that they should use a different OS at home, hence be isolated in case = of problems.=20 3. Genrally, they do not buy these applications, they copy for personal use= and some editors allow this, antivirus for instance. 4. Primarily a language barrier problem, if one decides to go in at the dee= p end.=20 5. Then, we get into Technical Support, most of the guys at the stores don= =E2=80=99t have a clue of what is Linux. The techies play games on XP, so w= hy would they learn Linux? 6. Solidarity InterLugs. Why would somebody making a search on a search eng= ine and discover interlugs wars for supremacy and control of X city be inte= rested to be part of these communities, hence trolls. Linux appears in the = eyes of the layman as an OS for a class of knowledgeable people to start wi= th and that some Lugs will go as far as hacking other lugs site in order to= be seen as _the_ lug of X city? 7. I have sort mentioned that earlier, games and applications, not the same= on both platforms.=20 8. OEM agreements for selling motherboards etc? Just my two cents, Cheers, Jimmy --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: magilus (magilus) Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 09:48:53 -0000 Message-Id: <20061126094853.4063.2650.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Sorry for the spam, I tried to "roll back" mostly everything made by d_jedi. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: towsonu2003 (towsonu2003) Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 09:58:05 -0000 Message-Id: <20061126095805.29624.7777.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> fixed format for readability... was that Steve Balmer? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: randyleepublic (public-randolphmlee) Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 19:54:39 -0000 Message-Id: <20061126195439.4063.26787.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Microsoft deserves a majority market share. Despite its legion of warts, Microsoft Windows is the only operating system whose implementation approches understanding of the concept of the gui/command line dichotomy. THE GUI/COMMAND LINE DICHOTOMY: All command and control of the operating system should be available through= gui widgets. SIMULTANEOUSLY, all command and control of the operating sys= tem should be available through terminal commands. =20 Windows has high system status courtesy of the registry. Windows has guis to control almost all its sub-systems. Most Windows guis work intuitively as expected. Windows has terminal commands for most controls. The current state of Ubuntu is not even close. Some Ubuntu guis defeat the command line. Some Ubuntu gui widgets that fail to control the operating system. Many Ubuntu sub-systems can only be controlled by commands. Worse: Ubuntu's reliance on disoranized and poorly documented text files for configuration settings severely degrades its system status. Bug no. 1 will only be fixable through Ubuntu when Ubuntu offers a SYSTEM that is in the same league as Windows. public by randolphmlee no spam (" by " =3D "@", " no " =3D ".", "spam" =3D "com") --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: d_jedi (spymac-sucks) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 04:56:23 -0000 Message-Id: <20061127045623.24002.73390.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS. DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS. DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mommedia.com (dcodex2013-deactivatedaccount) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 23:36:20 -0000 Message-Id: <20061208233620.14514.26936.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Microsoft has a majority market share because MS provides drivers for almost all the existing devices, specially printers. With Linux/Ubuntu the printer drivers do not work; so how can you expect EUs to adapt to something that it's not fully functional? People will always have to depend on the money driven MS for that particular reason; but I can assure you that as soon as Linux starts providing universal support for all these devices and on line streaming features, then it will be the end of the Money Driven Empire. Lets face it, Ubuntu has come a long way and we should be thankful for it, I am! With that said, only you can make it a difference by educating the rest of the world about Linux/Ubuntu, forget about the U.S.A. they love they stock prices go up! Start by educate the developing Countries and have them move to Linux/Ubuntu today and then you will see a tremendous difference. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mommedia.com (dcodex2013-deactivatedaccount) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 23:40:56 -0000 Message-Id: <20061208234056.14380.33064.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Microsoft has a majority market share because MS provides drivers for almost all the existing devices, specially printers. With Linux/Ubuntu the printer drivers do not work; so how can you expect EUs to adapt to something that it's not fully functional? People will always have to depend on the money driven MS for that particular reason; but I can assure you that as soon as Linux starts providing universal support for all these devices and on line streaming features, then it will be the end of the Money Driven Empire. Lets face it, Ubuntu has come a long way and we should be thankful for it, I am! With that said, only you can make it a difference by educating the rest of the world about Linux/Ubuntu, forget about the U.S.A. they love their stock prices to go up! Start by educate the developing Countries and have them move to Linux/Ubuntu today and then you will see a tremendous difference. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mommedia.com (dcodex2013-deactivatedaccount) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 23:43:52 -0000 Message-Id: <20061208234352.16773.7927.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Your note key is China, get it! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mommedia.com (dcodex2013-deactivatedaccount) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 22:26:52 -0000 Message-Id: <20061212222652.27909.73156.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> =E3=81=93=E3=82=93=E3=81=AB=E3=81=A1=E3=81=AF2006-11-20 18:58=E3=81=AEomoti= =E3=81=8B=E3=82=89: 02 UTC =E3=81=93=E3=82=93=E3=81=AB=E3=81=A1=E3=81=AF =E7=A7=81=E3=81=AF=E7=A7=81=E3=81=8C=E3=81=93=E3=81=AE=E3=82=B5=E3=83=BC=E3= =83=93=E3=82=B9 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=E3=83=9A=E3=83=BC=E3=82=B8=E3=81=AF=E3=81=AB=E5=BE=93=E3=81=A3=E3=81=A6= =E7=BF=BB=E8=A8=B3=E3=81=99=E3=82=8B: =E8=8B=B1=E8=AA=9E=E3=81=8B=E3=82=89=E6=97=A5=E6=9C=AC=E8=AA=9E=E3=81=9D=E3= =81=97=E3=81=A6=E3=81=9D=E3=81=86=E3=81=A7=E2=80=A6. =E3=81=9D=E3=82=8C=E4=BB=A5=E4=B8=8A=E3=81=AE=E8=B3=AA=E5=95=8F=E3=82=92=E6= =9C=89=E3=81=99=E3=82=8C=E3=81=B0=E5=B9=B8=E9=81=8B=E4=BB=98=E5=8A=A0=E7=9A= =84=E3=81=AA=E5=8A=A9=E3=81=91=E3=82=92=E8=A6=81=E6=B1=82=E3=81=97=E3=80=82= =E7=A7=81=E3=81=AF=E3=81=93=E3=82=8C=E3=81=8C=E3=81=82=E3=81=AA=E3=81=9F= =E3=81=AE=E3=81=9F=E3=82=81=E3=81=AB=E5=83=8D=E3=81=8F=E3=81=93=E3=81=A8=E3= =82=92=E6=9C=9B=E3=82=80=E3=80=81 sayonara=E3=80=82 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: klittzzer (klittzzer) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 00:20:29 -0000 Message-Id: <20061214002029.16773.33130.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I have recently switched from windows to Ubuntu and now Kubuntu over the last couple of weeks after 18 years 'liking and lumping' Windows. Initially I found the 'rough edges' (Mentioned - 'Michael 23/11/06) to be nothing other than, for eg, having to configure my USB modem and tiscali UK ADSL connection. Having spent a small amount of time actually inputting a few commands into 'terminal' or 'konsole', I now regard these 'rough edges' (bugs??) to be hugely valuable and 'user friendly', dare I say it, aspects of the KDE GUI experience and have benefitted from not simply double clicking an icon and a few subsequent buttons in order to install a piece of modem script. Windows converts may not all share my feelings with regards to learning about the computers they spend time on and don't have the time to go through such procedures (times money, blah . . .), so I can see how the post mentioned above may be of benefit to bug#1 in the UK, which is virtually the US but a few months behind, and pounds below economically, and thus a large inflator of Microsofts share price. By far the most promising means of exposing such an inherently good operating system and all of its virtues is by making the best use of its best asset- the fact that it is free, and target those who do not live in obscene relative luxury (yet relative luxury nonetheless) in Western Europe and the USA, and those who reside in the less developed/un- developed(food, hygeine, etc is a priority and their right, along with comms) denizens of the world. In the UK, the education system is seriously strapped for cash and here is an operating system that 'teaches' people how to use it. If enough teachers can somehow be introduced to these benefits, and I am sure that some are already, would demand of that size create a supply of blank machines or Open Source loaded computers? I don't know for sure but it all points to targetting the less monied in a sensible way. I was converted in minutes of first booting Ubuntu and I had no idea how I was going to get on the web. Now I have an OS which far outstrips anything I have ever bought in a box. I feel there is a lot of promise in this software, agree wholeheatedly with bug#1, and will persist in looking in to it to try and help towards a solution. I would happily give my time in helping to address this bug for I feel compassionatley about the Open Source issue and ideology. If I can help in any way, not writing code or that kind of stuff yet, but if anything needs typing, printing, e-mails, letters, if stuff like that happens as a result of this site, don't hesitate to ask. klittzzer --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Nemes Ioan Sorin (nemes-sorin) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 23:26:50 -0000 Message-Id: <20061217232650.29893.25206.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> North of Romania - Bistrita - a small elegant town - December 2006 - I found that Ubuntu (6.10) was pre-installed on a new computer. How I found that. A friend of mine tell me he can not install Word (MS word) on his new computer. Going there I see that he tried to install MS Office on Ubuntu ;) So Ubuntu become a choice (that's good). Of course no video-audio codecs. The guys from PC magazine dont have patience to install gstreamer & other codecs from "ugly" part. Even with Automatix or Easy Ubuntu. I'll go there to teach that. Until now I do 8 Edgy Eft installations on my city. The big victory will be when I'll see Ubuntu on my city hall ( I need read-write on NTFS partition for that ). --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Josh (majik) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 20:18:54 -0000 Message-Id: <20061220201854.7714.70617.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Um, in Oregon we just run whatever operating system is appropriate for the job. Linux doesn't work for everyone in every application, so we see this as a feature, not a bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Axel de Mol (axeldemol) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 14:48:07 -0000 Message-Id: <20061221144807.7714.73186.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Well, here in het Netherlands it is also a major bug. I'm a student at a Business ICT education and almost everyone uses Windows over here. A few of my fellow classmates received Ubuntu CD's from me and tried it and were very satisfied with it. I'm all out of CD's so I already ordered some Ubuntu and Kubuntu CD's ;)) The problem for most of them is usability. They al want an out of the box, perfect performing operating system. The biggest problem we had with our laptops was wireless internet support, it's just one point that should be made easier. I know it's a driver problem but we will have to force hardware manufacturers to write drivers for other operating systems. Besides of that we have to use windows software, our teachers force us for example to make database designs with the windows program Dezign. If we can't, we have to use Microsoft Visio. It's a great problem for me to promote Ubuntu at our school and the teachers want to know nothing about Linux. We need good replacements for those programs that can change the opinions at the schools. If the user is still dependant on a program, it will never switch to linux. We also have to use programs like Word ofcourse, the .doc format is not that great but it's the only thing we can use. When I use open-office and send a file to a classmate, there are still some compatibility problems between the 2 programs. Open fileformats should fix that problem. Another big problem is games, alot of people at my study like to play games and still have windows installed because of that. Force the game- companies to support linux or invent a way to easily run them on Ubuntu. Alot of my classmates want to change operating systems because they get crazy from maintaining Windows but they won't because of the hard- and software support. I think that if you have the gamers using ubuntu and people in the working area, alot of people will switch. Another thing, the GUI of the operating system is very important. Most people don't want to use the terminal, make it easier for them and maybe add some gimmicks. Make instant desktop search standard. People like those things. With XGL/Compiz and Beryl some big steps are made, if they get more complete and professional it gets more attractive for people to switch, but it must be easier. Take the example of Mac OSX, looks beautiful and easy to use, better than Windows, but people are still dependant on certain hard and software, and that's why not everyone is switching. If it is possible, combine great looks with usability and good hard- and software support. Another thing, marketing. Get people to know about Ubuntu. Give free CD's with computer magazines and let them write articles about it. Individual users, promote linux with beginning computer users and install Ubuntu at peoples computers. There are a lot of ways to promote Ubuntu and the community can start with it. Well, this was my story and I hope someone can do something with my opinion. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Nemes Ioan Sorin (nemes-sorin) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 12:57:02 -0000 Message-Id: <20061224125702.7763.31665.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> .. Possible response / ideea for solution. Status - Critical. Resolution - we must do something .. Original (in romanian - from http://linux.hangar.ro/node/339 ): "..Am primit de curand o intrebare de la un "coleg de retea" care suna cam = asa Da ce pe linux poti sa asculti muzica?.Am ramas uimit si totodata exis= ta si ceva adevar...remarc o lipsa a siturilor care sa se adreseze mai mult= partii de Desktop a sistemelor Linux. Consider ca asta este cel mai mare i= mpediment in propagarea sistemelor Linux la noi in tara.Atat timp cat pe ma= rea majoritate a siturilor despre Linux gasim numai tutoriale legate de "sh= ell, scripts, console, mount points, shell scripting, iptables..etc " (inte= legeti unde bat..) cu siguranta utilizatorul de 12-18 ani nu va intelege ca= re ar fi "necesitatea unei distributii Linux". Consider ca ar trebui scoasa in evidenta mai mult partea Desktop decat cea = de Server a sistemelor Linux. ..." Translation :=20 ----------------------------- Recently, I received a question from a "network coworker " on this form : = - but in wich Linux I can hear music ?. I was shocked ..and I must recogniz= e how much truth I discovered here... I can remark a big loss regarding lin= ux websites targeting on Desktop part of Linux. I consider this is the big = bug on Linux propagation on our country ( and in world .NA ). As time as ma= jority of linux on-line revues post only tutorials about "shell, scripts, c= onsole, mount points, shell scripting, iptables..etc " ( U know what I mean= ... ) potentially new user with age between 12 to 18, certainly will not u= nderstand Linux role. " I consider that Desktop part of Linux should see the light on the same mann= er as Server side, if not more. -------------------------------- No comment. This is a point of view taken from Linux Hangar. So, to eliminate bug nr. 1, we dont need to destroy Bill Empire - Is not enough - but we must speak about us. Not anyhow - using a clean / clear language for all. Indeed > I wich Linux I can hear music ? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tommy (tom-h) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 18:09:14 -0000 Message-Id: <20061224180914.27503.87780.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Perhaps it's time for linux devs in general to think much more seriously about this one. After reading this: http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/world-domination/world- domination-201.html I come away agreeing on most points - particularly that of media support. Considering the real issues inhibiting distribution and function within Linux are almost all legal-based, maybe it's time to throw some money at the problem. It may sound absurd, but how much - feasibly, would it take to just buy the rights to the problematic codecs/formats/whatever? If this bug is to be solved before Vista becomes standard - or, if Vista isn't as much of a problem as many expect, Windows 64 - then I really don't think there are many options left open. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 12:45:09 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0612260445o718a3109vdcbf2c370209df71@mail.gmail.com> Thanks to Tom Halligan for pointing out the article by Messrs Raymond and Landley. The problem, to oversimplfy, is that articles such as that are so inaccurate that it clouds the real problem, first off I've been using a 64 bit O/S for 2 full years. Ubuntu Linux was the only system that I could get to work. True, the 64 bit system is not fleshed out, and Microsoft has made mockery of it with their XP-64. Apple is not even in consideration. "Throwing money" at the problem would be a drastic mistake. Most people that use Ubuntu are willing to share and help, but as Tom pointed out the legal problem, created by the U.S. Patent Office, aided and abetted by Microsoft, is the real culprit. As well people (like me) use Ubuntu on important (buzz=3Dmission critical) systems that can not tolerate failure. BUT, there is a learning curve to Linux, a big one, and Ubuntu may be the easiest approach, but not for the 'feint of heart'. Help us overcome the big nasty problem created by the "Patent Office", call or inundate with email, your elected representative, get him/her/it onside. The U.S. created the problem, but there are many more of us out here in the real world. Allen Graham (Canada-Mexico) On 12/24/06, Tommy wrote: > > Perhaps it's time for linux devs in general to think much more seriously > about this one. After reading this: > > http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/world-domination/world- > domination-201.html > > I come away agreeing on most points - particularly that of media > support. Considering the real issues inhibiting distribution and > function within Linux are almost all legal-based, maybe it's time to > throw some money at the problem. It may sound absurd, but how much - > feasibly, would it take to just buy the rights to the problematic > codecs/formats/whatever? > > If this bug is to be solved before Vista becomes standard - or, if Vista > isn't as much of a problem as many expect, Windows 64 - then I really > don't think there are many options left open. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 > --=20 > http://adventures-with-the-rascals.blogspot.com/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Efrain Valles (effie-jayx) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 23:15:44 -0000 Message-Id: <20070103231544.27070.67313.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> This Bug is very visible in my university.. www.urbe.edu . all technologies are oriented towards Microsoft Products. all education around microsoft. enabling university students to be only 90% ready for the real world... it will be our task to spread ubuntu. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Andy Brook (javahollic) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 09:13:44 -0000 Message-Id: <20070104091344.27070.5626.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> In my company (global audio brand) bar one (mainframe) exception, all office applications and related systems run on windows. Inroads have been made in some areas with Edgy being used for development boxes, production 'appliances' and development/production servers. We hand out Ubuntu CD's to anyone who expresses an interest but as with most corporate environments, we don't make the decisions, we can only demonstrate and advocate. Re:previous posters comment, I couldn't agree more. If people aren't educated with regards to the bigger picture of OS's, they are destined to become the corporate decision makers of tomorrow, persisting the bug. Self-preservation may also come into it - like 'nobody got fired for buying IBM kit' a decade or more ago, today 'nobody gets fired for buying M$ tech' - it maintains the status-quo and is within the decision makers comfort-zone (albeit quite small :) In any case, Ubuntu works (mostly) for me and is getting better all the time, keep the good work up! p.s. shameless bcm43xx bug plug: I _really_ would like this to work on a 64bit/2GB ram machine, though I'd settle for not causing a kernel panic :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: DA_lpn (dee-ayy) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 06:24:27 -0000 Message-Id: <20070113062427.5477.74892.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I think I know why this bug is so repeatable and I have a fix. Mark Shuttleworth practically stated the solution in his bug report, but in case my view is subtly different, I state it now and hope it will be considered. Mark Shuttleworth, Canonical Ltd. et al (or a new entity) needs hardware pl= atforms which already have Ubuntu installed, either by developing a hardwar= e division, or partnering with a quality hardware manufacturer. As Mark st= ated, "What should happen: 1. A majority of the PC's for sale should include ... Ubuntu" Heed the NEW in "Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace."! When I needed new hardware in the Summer of 2006, I wanted multi-core processors in a Shuttle Computer http://sys.us.shuttle.com/Scgsupport/NewProducts.htm or Mac Mini http://www.apple.com/macmini/ or AOpen http://www.aopen.com/ type small form factor. OS stability was the primary requirement, but I needed dedicated new hardware on which to run the OS. For the OS, my top candidates where Ubuntu, FreeBSD, and Mac OSX. Apple was stressing their unique and stable hardware/software integration at the time, and a dedicated graphics card was a low priority. Apple skimps on memory in general (main RAM and Graphics card memory). I really wanted the AMD 64 X2, but ultimately went with the Mac and OSX with 2GB RAM in spite of the 32 bit Intel Core Duo. For Christmas 2006, I again was in the market for new hardware. I really wanted a MacTablet convertible. Such a beast still does not exist as this appears to be only a slate http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ModBook. All the convertibles I considered was forcing MS Windows along with the purchase. I did visit Ubuntu to check on tablet support. Had I found a convertible I liked without MS Windows, I may have gone with Ubuntu; but instead I went with the top end 15" MacBook Pro with Intel Core 2 Duo (i.e. 64 bit), proving to myself that my real requirement was mobility and not necessarily the convertible tablet yet. My next hardware purchase may yet be a convertible tablet. Will Ubuntu be properly positioned? My personal purchases are migrating toward mobility. Perhaps a wearable PC is next on my horizon. I have the 3D Visor http://www.3dvisor.com/ but that did not work out as I hoped for the Mac Mini (BYODKM) -- now I remote in. I am considering something like http://www.myvu.com/ or something similar to Icuiti products http://www.icuiti.com/index.php?page_id=3D11. Please consider this emerging hardware market to bundle with Ubuntu. I did run Ubuntu on my MacBook Pro with VMware Fusion beta and may consider Parallels if VMware decides to charge for Fusion. But that was only because Tersus.com wanted a particular version of Eclipse which did not run on the Mac (no Rosetta joy either). VMware Tools did not seem "to take" BTW. Opening Apple hardware is an enjoyable experience in itself. Their design is awesome as well for everyday use. I even recommended an Xserve at my workplace (the Mac Mini and MacBook Pro were personal purchases). But I think Ubuntu can definitely compete and win in the OS arena. I mock Apple's (Mac OSX) and Sun's (Solaris) claims of "The world=E2=80=99s most advanced operating system" and "The most advanced oper= ating system on the planet" respectively, when they can't even resize a window anywhere other than the bottom right corner. But my main point is that hardware and software go hand in hand for NEW purchases. Position Ubuntu with "THE NEXT" hardware platform, and this bug will go away. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: calum (calum-gnome) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:12:47 -0000 Message-Id: <20070116221247.25372.74921.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Which version of Solaris are you using that you can't resize windows from any corner?! JDS (GNOME), CDE, OpenWindows, they've all allowed this... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: maba (mjb-tec) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 23:41:51 -0000 Message-Id: <20070117234151.20188.36956.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> It's in education and sales. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: cyber_rigger (cyber-rigger) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 18:03:21 -0000 Message-Id: <20070118180321.31571.90060.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> The bug is NOT in the Microsoft portion. The bug is in the various OEM sections. Here are some recent workarounds. http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23168/ Stop using the broken OEM versions. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: leexgx (leexgx) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 16:13:59 -0000 Message-Id: <20070120161359.5640.60669.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> bugs as i see linux at this time (20% better from 4-6 yrs ago as we now have an GUI installer and alot of drivers for stuff now work) the other 80% needs sorting As working for my self using Linux seems an good idea but as one stated there needs to be an GUI for every Terminal command or config file, if I give an pc with ubuntu on it not sure how long it take for them to ring me and ask me what do I do Ubuntu in some cases Hides useful GUI tools that need to be started from the Terminal, in that case is an step backwards Having to move mouse off every button to click on it needs fixing as well (you click on an button that was greyed out then comes clickable you try and click on it does Nothing until mouse is moved off and back onto it agene) 0 help on install of ubuntu is also an other problem (also stated some ware in there) if the norm user comes to Linux/ubuntu he should not need to use Terminal (basic limited help files) Adding new hardware - I have found its allot more easlyer to Reinstall Linux then it is to find out how I get an new peace of hardware to work (Kubuntu does an better job at this or should I say KDE), also adding an new hdd can be an task in it self on Ubuntu its wasted 4 hrs= of my time trying to work out how I get an hdd to format on ubuntu server = once I did there was NO GUI tools for settings security and using err=20 {the program in terminal that I do not know what=E2=80=99s its called ubunt= u had no info on what the commands do even me as an techy I need Basic to a= dv how-to and I work it out my self} but the info was not there like it was 6-7 yrs ago when I used Red Hat in = the end I gave up and loaded windows 2003 and formatted the disk in 30 sacs= after windows was installed all 6 disks worked as well I was only run like 2-3 programs on my server emule newsbin and IRC , and I wanted to be able to use them and Remote control (VNC) and that was crap as well it was Rendering each frame not accepting Mouse click all the time --- Windows wins out on GUI for configuring every thing <<< or maybe not I just= tried=20 -Mandria 2007 ONE But NO auto update unless you pay for it and the help fil= es do not work so i say no to this one -Open suse 10.2 had no problems (installing it not for novices though) << t= he way suse does this it has made me think linux be as good and user frendl= y a lot sooner then I thought before like 2 more yrs and I think we have an= usable dstros In windows VMware {as I have been typing this}=20 And all the GUI options was there like M$ windows has to an limited degree = >>> The OS needs to be user friendly and the Main menu needs to start at the bottom left (can=E2=80=99t give Gnome to a normal user as it though him rig= ht off the mark so I only use KDE only as main window) Even my self it take allot to make me got Linux more as I can get things done in M$ windows mostly instantly --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: oschra (oschra) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:27:00 -0000 Message-Id: <20070124182700.31836.45649.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> It's even more worse. There's a virus in there newest products that transforms developers into .PETs. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Michael Erskine (msemtd) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 13:36:43 -0000 Message-Id: <20070125133643.21584.46677.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Vista will fix this one ;) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 13:48:28 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0701250548p59cb6f7anf9e850afbe6b705e@mail.gmail.com> Right on !!!!!!!!! On 1/25/07, Michael Erskine wrote: > > Vista will fix this one ;) > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 > --=20 > http://adventures-with-the-rascals.blogspot.com/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: cyber_rigger (cyber-rigger) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:31:51 -0000 Message-Id: <20070125223151.23298.46493.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> The good folks at lxer.com have built an OEM patch database. The patches are listed by region and computer type. http://lxer.com/module/db/index.php?dbn=3D14 Remember, the patches won't work if you don't use them. A while back I did a patch count per distro. Ubuntu was in the lead. Oct 03, 2006 Summary, what vendors are preinstalling. Desktops: 24 (18.05%) Ubuntu 20 (15.04%) Suse 19 (14.29%) Fedora 18 (13.53%) Linspire 11 (8.27%) Redhat 8 (6.02%) Debian 8 (6.02%) Xandros 6 (4.51%) Mandriva 5 (3.76%) Gentoo 4 (3.01%) Centos 4 (3.01%) Slackware 2 (1.50%) mephis 1 (0.75%) ELX 1 (0.75%) Frontier 1 (0.75%) Icepack 1 (0.75%) PclinuxOS Laptops/Notebooks: 13 (22.03%) Ubuntu 10 (16.95%) Fedora 10 (16.95%) Suse 5 (8.47%) Debian 5 (8.47%) Redhat 4 (6.78%) Centos 3 (5.08%) Linspire 3 (5.08%) Mandriva 2 (3.39%) Gentoo 2 (3.39%) Slackware 1 (1.69%) emperorlinux 1 (1.69%) mandrake --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Paul Flint (flint) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:42:19 -0000 Message-Id: /************************************ Paul Flint 17 Averill Street Barre, VT 05641 http://www.flint.com/home skype: flintinfotech Work: (202) 537-0480 Fax: (703) 852-7089 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: towsonu2003 (towsonu2003) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 23:58:18 -0000 Message-Id: <45B9441A.8070606@gmail.com> Great patch by lxer -thanks for the link- cyber_rigger wrote: > The good folks at lxer.com have built an OEM patch database. > The patches are listed by region and computer type. >=20 > http://lxer.com/module/db/index.php?dbn=3D14 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: fremm (fremm) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:19:41 -0000 Message-Id: <20070126101941.22572.64533.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Hi, I agree with you. In France the "Commission pour la R=C3=A9pression des Fra= udes" begins to closely look to this restriction of customer's freedom. But there a point which could help to fix this bug: A website in which every hardware is analysed on three criteria: For those who want to build their computer (individual or corporate) 1) disclosure of the specifications so it's possible to write an open drive= r for it. 2) Manufacturer's global politic concerninf opensource community's relation= ship 3) degree of integration in the opensource software (supported by the kerne= l, source or compiled version of the driver etc.) For those who want a complete solution 4) Manufacturers who offer a solution complete and fully compatible with op= ensource for computers, printers, scanners, pda etc. When such a website will exist, the Linux users will first look at it, choo= se his hardware and will be very happy with the opensource solution. But it also will help to the birth of a OpenSource oriented hardware indust= ry (from manufacturers to OEM). --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: franganghi (joered) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 11:01:32 -0000 Message-Id: <20070126110133.23298.94795.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Yesterday evening i had to buy a pci s-ata adapter. I had three choices: Adaptec (130 euro) supporting every kind of raid setup on 4 ports, Exagerate (42 euro) only 2 ports supporting raid 0/1 and a Sil compatible adapter with 4 ports (14 euro). I knew that adaptec is the best and i know that it can sometimes make the difference, but i picked up the compatible one: on the enclosure, in a BOLD highlighted label was written "Supporting Microsoft 2K/XP, 95/98 and LINUX O.S.". It was enough for me and it was not specified on the other devices! In december my PIV died and i took a PIII that i had in my home as a spare (256mb RAM, Nvidia FX5700, now with [160 sys] + [200 edk] + [200 RAID 1 home] gb of disk space available): with ubuntu it is exactly what i need to do all the thinks i usually do at home and at work. Now i only need a Wii and all the games will be done! I converted to ubuntu 4 of my friend in the last 5 month: it means that it will be hard to win... but the battle will be epic! Ciao=20 Giovanni - ROMA - IT --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: slimdog360 (slim323) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 09:42:50 -0000 Message-Id: <20070128094250.22572.91906.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I think if Ubuntu (or Linux in general) were to support PTP cameras then millions of people would come rushing from Windows into Linux. So quick someone start incorporating PTP support into the Linux kernel. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Patrick Dixon (patrick-dixon) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 18:44:09 -0000 Message-Id: <20070128184409.22572.2194.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Having just spend two days (and failed) to get sound working on an ubuntu machine, I can understand why ;-( --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Wolf Canis (wolf-canis) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 19:37:15 -0000 Message-Id: <45BCFB6B.4040803@yahoo.co.uk> Hello Patrick Dixon, if you understand the problem, why you doesn't solve the problem. And If you don't know the solution, why you doesn't ask someone who knows the solution or make a request in launchpad or go to another Ubuntu forum. Go to http://www.ubuntu.com/community or http://www.ubuntu.com/support or http://www.ubuntu.com/support/documentation There are a lot of help and a lot of people who knows the solution. Just ask. Mr Canis Patrick Dixon wrote: > Having just spend two days (and failed) to get sound working on an > ubuntu machine, I can understand why ;-( >=20 =09 ___________________________________________________________=20 Now you can scan emails quickly with a reading pane. Get the new Yahoo! Mai= l. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: toxic76 (mr-guru18) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:57:20 -0000 Message-Id: <20070129105720.10243.72943.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I agree that pc should be sold clean.The first computer that i=20 bought was clean with no pre installed os..But that was a long time ago before windows 95. But i remember bying ms-dos 6.22 and windows 3.11 for workgroups wery cheap lol.. The only problem is that some people are stupid and they=20 don't know what to do with install cd:s My opinion is that ubuntu is more secure and faster then windows, and it's a choice to make what software you want=20 to use --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:31:06 -0000 Message-Id: <20070130103106.22572.74210.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I just watched The Daily Show and Bill Gates was on it plugging Windows Vista. He's getting old and its showing, e.g. when he walked off the stage before the end, surprising Jon Stewart. There are lots of parallels to be drawn with Windows... Mark Shuttleworth (youthful, photogenic, media-savvy guy that he is :) should be on TV more to get Ubuntu the (free ;) press it needs; TDS would be in the right demographic too, ne? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Yao Wei (medicalwei) Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2007 02:57:53 -0000 Message-Id: I talked with my friends of taiwan locoteam. Once I thought that we should have commercials on TV channels in =20 Taiwan, because lots of computer in taiwan is still using Windows. However, it is the problem that we don't have money to purchase it - =20 the commercial is so expensive. Could Mark promoting Ubuntu in America to try the attrations of =20 commercials?(not only the software, but the spirit.) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2007 04:01:21 -0000 Message-Id: <20070203040121.5548.30302.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Medical-Wei: There are lots of ways to get publicity without paying for commercials. The news media will often cover stories of people holding an event; maybe have an Ubuntu Installfest Day for the release of Feisty. Write letters to the editor of your local newspaper with regards to their coverage (or lack of coverage) of Linux (or contrast it to Vista's coverage; was Linux mentioned even once as an alternative?). Set up a booth in a prominent location to distribute Ubuntu disks, etc. etc. The only limit is your imagination; consider some of the more interesting things done to promote Firefox, e.g.: http://lug.oregonstate.edu/index.php/Projects/Firefox/Firefox_Circle --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Paul Flint (flint) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 19:34:53 -0000 Message-Id: Greetings List Lurkers, Good news for a change! Or good news for change, take your pick! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6332441.stm Regards, Flint /************************************ Paul Flint 17 Averill Street Barre, VT 05641 http://www.flint.com/home skype: flintinfotech Work: (202) 537-0480 Fax: (703) 852-7089 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: PowerUser (i-am-sergey) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 06:15:36 -0000 Message-Id: <20070206061536.9891.37949.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Well, enough is enough.M$ is finally getting mad.Jailing innocent school teachers is an awful overkill, "copyright" !=3D "The God mode is on".As a Russian I will do everything I can to make M$ sorry for doing so.Please distribute this news as wide as you can so everyone can see true MS face.Btw, there is strong MS lobby in Russia so we Linux people are having hard times here fighting with MS propaganda.Everyone who can, please assist: spread the word! In particular, for Russians these links are ok to make every tech people to awfully afraid Vista :) http://emdrone.livejournal.com/176676.html?view=3D2406692#t2406692 http://the--listener.livejournal.com/28720.html?view=3D70192#t70192 There is nice technical description of evil Vista DRM featires, used sabotage and rights restriction schemes, AACS, anti-user things, etc.Those who read these links once are seems to afraid Vista as if it is "more evil than satan himself" (which is apparently true) :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: towsonu2003 (towsonu2003) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 18:54:44 -0000 Message-Id: <45C8CEF4.4080502@gmail.com> Hi, As you might guess, I graduated from Towson University, and I recently learned that it has started to consider whether and when to switch to Vista[1]. We all know that Vista requires new hardware and as far as I know, they just bought new computers from Dell... And I cannot see why an educational institution would want to switch to Vista so early, which doesn't bring anything new to the table but eye candy... So I find it a little foolish what they're doing... At first, I wanted to contact them and advise them to switch to Linux, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't take me seriously. Towson University is part of the Maryland University system, and if Ubuntu were to enter Towson, it could function as a nice gate into the broader system, including schools like College Park and UMBC. This would also be a perfect implementation for institutional- linux[2]... This sounds more like an utopia to me, but what if Canonical and / or Ubuntu's marketing team contacts them? Would that be possible? Thanks a lot for considering Addresses: * Administration and Finance: http://wwwnew.towson.edu/adminfinance/ * Office of Technology Services: http://wwwnew.towson.edu/adminfinance/ots/otscommunications/ [1] http://wwwnew.towson.edu/applications/dailydigest/databases/news/20070205_1= 05806AM_avoith_1625.asp [2] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/institutional-linux --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: borneoo (borneoo) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:12:33 -0000 Message-Id: <20070210141233.26116.97524.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Many small company are using Ms SBS servers, I think this Is a point where= a good preconfigured distributions can achive something !!!! It doen's need too much, Only Samba PDC, Postfix with IMAP, spam filter, an= d some antivirus sw, ALL with LDAP management,=20 like Ubuntu have "LAMP server" install option...,the small companies are more flexible to change --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: JLR (artirj) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 20:10:48 -0000 Message-Id: <20070211201048.26116.18767.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> This bug will be solves thanks to Ubuntu :) Ubuntu really owns --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: 1337 (neorser) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 03:02:54 -0000 Message-Id: <20070212030254.848.9948.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> This bug has not been fixed in 2.25 years yet, and we need to fix this bug and fast before Vista is widely adopted. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 07:51:19 -0000 Message-Id: <20070213075119.18880.70936.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> mommedia: if you have specific issues with Ubuntu, the best place to get help is http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Eric Polin (eric-polin) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 12:31:47 -0000 Message-Id: <20070218123147.31849.49456.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> This bug is even more common on laptops than desktops, and much more on desktops than servers: while is it possible to buy a server without MSWindows from any manufacturer, I have never, ever seen a laptop without it (or Apple's OS) for sale in Switzerland's or France's popular shops: there must be some, but they are not carried by the main distributors. Ubuntu has it right to make things simple to casual users, which is the right challenge. There is still plenty of work to do about it, if I rely on my current experience: I am installing Ubuntu on my brand new laptop I bought from a local manufacturer (precisely in order not to pay for MSWindows), and neither the CD-ROM nor the WiFi work... and I have not tried the USB yet! This is really where the chicken-and-egg challenge is, as we all know: the manufacturer, not MS, tested their product w/ Windows, but they did not with Ubuntu... Fortunately, MS is helping resolve the bug by making its own products always slower and, above all, impractical. To be honest, I care less than the average in this community about paying for the software; the only thing that matters to me is its quality. The reason of my move to Linux, and to Ubuntu in particular, is the constant regression of MS software's quality since W2K: I hate system administration, but I hate coping with flourishing bugs in MS-Word or MS-Outlook, or waiting for MSExplorer to do tasks I have not requested, much, much more. To me, MS's current situation looks very much like IBM's in the 1980's: prices were high, technology was lagging, and only reputation and installed base kept them afloat... until they suddenly crashed. The momentum now clearly stands with companies like Ubuntu, Google and, to some extent, Sun or Oracle. It is my impression that Ballmer's more financially- and less technically-focused management than Gates' was greatly increases the opportunity for the leaders of the Linux world to do significant progress in the resolution of that bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: LI Daobing (lidaobing) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 06:31:13 -0000 Message-Id: <20070224063113.18382.58219.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I can't reproduce this bug. I did a statistic in my lab, there are about 100 computers, so stat error is about 10%. 90 of them install linux (2 ubuntu, and others are debian), 10 of them install windows. so I can estimate the Microsoft's market share is 0~20%. and 20% can't be called as a majority. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 09:13:07 -0000 Message-Id: <20070224091307.1765.68647.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> LI Daobing: The bug specifically says "Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace." Unless your lab also sells new computers, that's not a valid example :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Kory Malmrose (zaryzen) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 23:44:04 -0000 Message-Id: <20070228234405.12905.17309.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I have been able to reproduce this bug in berkeley, california, i am currently trying to convert my freinds, so i am trying my best. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: AMD (mcommm) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 01:48:56 -0000 Message-Id: <20070301014856.11785.26335.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Sorry for my english I think Microsoft is a very dangerous company for all(Not only for users li= ke us but also for companies software developers for windows). they started with OS an Office software but now they take more of the marke= t they want to take in their hands Server market, software for developers, = games, antiviruses, divertisment soft and i think in the near future profes= sional software like Adobe Photoshop, 3D StudioMax , Autocad and this compa= nies will die because Microsoft has a bigger potential and knows his OS bet= ter than others so application programed by MS for MS OS(like windows) will= work smoothly and will be sold chipier than concurent products. I think that at this moment all Linux companies Must join and create a big union and to atract big companies like NVidia,ATi,HP,ACER,Canon... and make just one Linux but with all standartized and also to atract big software developers to colaborate making software for this new Linux. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: AMD (mcommm) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 01:53:53 -0000 Message-Id: <20070301015353.14888.1420.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> The software developers must understend Free OSes a best base for their software indiferent of type of software free o nonfree --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Stefano Pedretti (stefano-pedretti) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 14:04:39 -0000 Message-Id: <20070301140439.10973.77058.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> To fix this bug we need to spread preinstalled Ubuntu PCs in big distribution. Dell seems going in this way. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Ashley Avileli (ashleymail4u) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 12:32:24 -0000 Message-Id: <20070305123224.16355.65856.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Ubuntu has made its impact now only time will tell who wins.=20 Once we solve the problem of keep it simple we hit windows hard ....I mean = really hard. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Peter Funk (pf-artcom-gmbh) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 12:26:17 -0000 Message-Id: <20070306122617.25166.32738.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I had to replace my 5+ yrs old Dell Inspiron 8000 because the display=20 cable broke. I went shopping and finally decided to buy a=20 HP Compaq nw 9440. Nice machine. Of couse it came with XP "preinstalled". I erased this soon after unpacking and installed Ubuntu 6.10.=20 Works mostly fine, although there are still some minor issues with ACPI Standby. It would be nice, if HP Compaq could be convinced to deliver these machines with Ubuntu preinstalled. ;-) Some examples which I think needed to be improved in Ubuntu: * Third party software vendors still have problems to package software for installation on Linux systems. By default Ubuntu still mounts CDROMs with ``noexec`` and users have no choice to even execute an "install.sh" or=20 a "Run_me_first.sh" on a software CD. This is too paranoid for the avera= ge desktop user. * Third party Software vendors have no easy way to figure out, which version of Ubuntu is installed on a particular computer in order to deal with bac= kward=20 compatibility issues: There is no ``/etc/Ubuntu_version`` and the file=20 ``/etc/debian_version`` still tells ``testing/unstable``. =20 * Plugged a DV-Camera into the firewire port: I (as an experienced user) h= ad no problem to figure out, why I had no permissions on /dev/raw1394 and=20 that I had the choice to either add me to the group ``disk`` or modifiy=20 ``/etc/udev/rules.d/40-permissions.rules`` and taking the risk, that some = other user might eventually gain root priviliges by plugging a rogue firewire d= isk into my notebook. But what about Joe Randomuser who simply wants to make a DV= D=20 with some recordings of his kids (I use ``kino`` a rather great program B= TW)? But I guess that the average Joe Randomuser still has problems to figure = out what to do with the CDROM, that came with his Canon, Sony or whatever Camera which simply says, that Windows 98/nt/2000/xp is required to run the incl= uded software package. Enough ranting. Ubuntu is marvelous, but there is still work to be done. Regards,=20 Peter Funk --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Aurelien Naldi (aurelien.naldi) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 13:13:14 -0000 Message-Id: > * Third party Software vendors have no easy way to figure out, which vers= ion > of Ubuntu is installed on a particular computer in order to deal with b= ackward > compatibility issues: There is no ``/etc/Ubuntu_version`` and the file > ``/etc/debian_version`` still tells ``testing/unstable``. /etc/lsb-release exists, and should be used instead. --=20 aurelien naldi --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Bob Wallum (rbw3) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 14:12:57 -0000 Message-Id: <20070311141257.12088.67087.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Games, Games, Games and more Games! That is my prescription for this outrageous bug! Get the games on Ubuntu like Obilvion, Counter Strike et al, run them QUICKER on Ubuntu. The nasty bug will be squished overnight! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: David Vasta (ubuntu-davidandkelly) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:31:26 -0000 Message-Id: <20070311183127.32399.66856.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I come at this from a very different angle. Microsoft owns the data center. We all can see that and after being in IT for over 17 years I have grown tired of having to baby sit Microsoft Servers for one reason or another. I have also seen companies like IBM threaten to move their entire company to Linux on their desktops and laptops, and at the end of the day seems more like a PR stunt than a plan of action. Ubuntu being certified for DB2 was a move in the right direction. Now we need to do more. We need to work with IBM to get Lotus Domino certified for Ubuntu, Lotus Notes installer for Ubtuntu, and all of the other programs they have running on Linux with an RPM installer needs to have a deb version as well. This of course is not going to solve the problem, but it points out a direction we need to take. I am going to pick on IBM as I have the most exposure with them. They also have a dog in this fight as they always have seen Microsoft as a partner selling their OS on Intel Servers and as a foe. There also needs to be a push inside of the Ubuntu Project to show how Ubuntu Servers can directly replace Windows Servers. I know this has been done a million times by the "Linux" community, but there need to be an installer for SugarCRM that makes it easy to install on Ubuntu. There needs to be a Mail Server that is a package that installs and replaces Exchange without any fuss. If you Raid the Data Center and start replacing Servers and systems and start saving IT shops money you will see a rash or movement. Right now IT shops everywhere are paying a high price with Microsoft to keep the place up and running. We also need to have "Distributions/Installers" or "CDs/ISOs" that just install a Server like LAMP does now. Where we can just pick an option and have a file and print server with a GUI to control it. You have to beat Microsoft at the Wizard level to get the MSCE techs to work on it. Most don't know how to do anything without a wizard. I hae to dumb down Linux but in order for the majority MCSE to jump on board there has to be a move to cater to them, because most of them are afraid of a command line and a text file. I am not picking on them, this is just 17 years of IT talking. CITRIX would be a nice little app to replace as well. It eats up IT budgets and is really not needed from CITRIX. There are plenty of easy to use cheaper alternatives out there and no one is pushing them. Then we can talk about replacing the desktop and laptop systems. The bulk of the employees in any company I have worked with need some of the following apps on Windows. Office Telnet (TN5250 - I am an iSeries Admin) JDE Fat Client via Citrix eMail Web Browsing High Level Excel Stuff ODBC from Office Suite (Excel) to iSeries and other data. Lotus Notes Client Outlook Client That is pretty much it. We could grow the list but you have to bet Microsoft in the workplace and not on Home system. Apple has gone after the home user and while they have done well they are not making huge strides like they could if they had run full steam into the data center. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: towsonu2003 (towsonu2003) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 18:06:36 -0000 Message-Id: <45F6E82C.3030502@gmail.com> For the last month or so, Dell was overwhelmed by requests to pre-install linux on their laptops and desktops via http://www.dellideastorm.com/ . About 110,000 ppl voted for a Linux-preloaded Dell system. Dell seems to be interested in this idea (again) and is now asking for how people would like their Linux boxes to be :) You can see (and participate in) the survey here: http://www.dell.com/linuxsurvey I thought you might want to know :) Thanks PS. Ubuntu (along with Novell, Red Hat, openSuse and Fedora) is one of the choices they offer in the survey as the default/preferred linux system. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Paul Flint (flint) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 13:33:04 -0000 Message-Id: Dear Mark, While you are indeed accurate in the positive statements mentioned on your = blog recently as to how to solve bug #1, thanks to your (you and your=20 brilliant teams :^) efforts, I discover that I have become more ignorant. This morning, I had to spend several minutes to discover the expansion of=20 the acronyms WGA (Windows Genuine Advantage) and WGN (Windows Genuine=20 Notification). When I researched these acronyms, what I found out about=20 the end of personal privacy really scared me. I must attribute my=20 ignorance of these insidious products to you (plural). It appears my=20 ignorance is directly the result of running a single boot Ubuntu system=20 for the last 2 years. I languish in this ignorance, and due to my lack of = interest or need for proprietary systems that advantage themselves over=20 their customers, it appears that my economic viability as a consultant is=20 diminished. Simultaneously, I revel in my ignorance of operating systems=20 incursion into my personal computer. Thanks for the ignorance! I suspect = this feature of invasive operating systems on the part of the Micro$oft=20 Corporation may be their contribution to the mitigation of bug #1. Kindest Regards, Paul Flint /************************************ Paul Flint 17 Averill Street Barre, VT 05641 http://www.flint.com/home skype: flintinfotech Work: (202) 537-0480 Fax: (703) 852-7089 Free advice .~. is worth /V\ exactly what /( )\ you pay for it. ^^-^^ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Cesar (redspicom) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 21:13:30 -0000 Message-Id: <20070316211330.30513.81323.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I agree with Bob Wallum. I'm from M=C3=A9xico and this bug is big here too. I can't really talk for all my country, but in my state is awful. You go to a store and all you can see is mocosoft everywhere. The small stores sold "win" illegal copies like candy. All of this assembled pcs come whit this virus (mocosoft) and the worst is that the owners of the store most of time don't know how to use this toy even in the "easy tasks". So, according to Bob, and i know most of you will not be very satisfied, but i think is the truth (ok, 75% of the truth). Most people run their computers to play games, of course there exist another virus (consoles) which most kids use, but i'm talking about teenagers near the adult face. For years i decide not to move to GNU (even if i tried) just because of the damn games. Of course i tried to make dual boot, but in that time my hard disk were to small. Now that's not a problem. Games is a great launch vault just because you are getting people who cares, even if they are kids, which i think it's the best part. Most of you who are trying to educate adult's and just think in adults, will fail. Remember the phrase: the kids are the future. Don't try to make ubuntu #1 in OS to happen in the next 2 years, that not gonna be a purpose but a dream. We need to start thinking in future if we really want to advance. Games are a great idea just because if you can hit the young people, they will stick with the system. Most adults doesn't really want to know how to change to a better OS but just jubilate and get a long vacation. Most secretaries don't care if the GNU will make their job efficient. Most owners of companies don't want their workers to think, but to make right the day's job. So i think most people is getting the picture just so wrong. Of course few business man want the best of the OS installed on theirs worker's pcs. Of course some secretaries want to do the job right, of course few people want to be better, but like in the first post in this bug #1, like Alexandru say, most don't (he said this in stronger words, well, not stronger for me). So think in the popular first if you want to make a good advantage over the= competitor, over the corrupts and the lamers who release defective softwar= e (and now hardware). I know popular is not a popular word in the GNU world, but damn, is the bes= t way to grown fast JUST DON'T MISS THE WAY like the popular word can corru= pt everything, but i know this enormous community will not make that mistak= e. GAMES, MUSIC, VIDEO SYSTEMS (we really need a good one here), CHATS, BLUETOOTH, OFFICE, and a great compatibility and hardware detection must be the prime priorities to grown, of course, may not be the best, but just think in the next question: Which are the software your neighbors use every day? .I give 10 points to Beryl, compiz and the new Metisse for their efforts to= make a lot of innovative work for the desktop and the 3D environment. some= disagree with the popularity they are gaining but man, you can see the 3D = Desktop fever <--- still don't trust in my idea?, this is the prove it can = work. .I agree to not carry proprietary software with the Faisty Fawn, i don't like the idea of compiz in it, i think beryl is best, but even that, compiz in Feisty Fawn (at least till today) isn't easy to make it run for the common user <--- -10 points for this. I have another idea, it's not common but i think it'll work a little for th= e effort. I and a friend will be mounting a site of cute girls of and for my state (l= ater for my country). I'm planning to give Ubuntu a lot of publicity as als= o another GNUs communities, organizations and softwares (Ubuntu will be the= #1 priority, you'll see). I even plan to take shots of the girls to make Ubuntu's wallpapers so any u= ser can download it. Honestly this is not a project thinking of ubuntu, but why not to give ubun= tu the chance to be in my project?. Of course i'm going to make a really nice ubuntu site with videos of the be= ryl desktop and a lot of info and links to resources. The point is, why don't you make something like that?, of course i'm not saying you to do the same, but something similar. I think ubuntu by it's own can't do the job of exterminate bug #1, but they are out there a lot of things that can give it a hand. The one of obtaining the support from a big company like Dell sounds damn good and i think is another good way to fight for. Thanks towsonu2003 for the links. Do a really popular of most to see project for the common people and put Ubuntu next to it, i think this is a great way to grow the community, spread the word. I can spent all the day giving ideas, but damn, i have to work. So view my profile later or contact me if you like some this ideas and let's see if i could be of use for this great community (i hope i can). "to beat mocosoft you need to be best, more popular, affordable, friendly, easy and crazy..." I think the fail is in the popularity and a little in the friendly too. Let's work mates! -------------------------------------- C=C3=A9sar Rub=C3=A9n Red Spider http://www.redspi.com Mail redspicom at redspi dot com Messengers cesar.ruben at yahoo fantasifactory@hotmail.com --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?q?David_Bala=C5=BEic_=28xerces8=29?= Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 21:47:00 -0000 Message-Id: <20070317214700.5385.27950.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> missing NTFS functionality is a holdback for many that want to move from Wi= ndows to linux. Now there is a working solution (ntfs-3g). But the Ubuntu Feature Specification for it doesn't even have a Priority as= signed : https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/write-support-for-nt= fs --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: john (johnvuspam) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 04:57:27 -0000 Message-Id: <20070318045727.5574.58549.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I'm a complete newbie at this and I thought I would share some comments. I love anything Open and found out about Ubuntu when installing OpenOffice.= Have been using Gmail and Firefox for years. I have never taken any computer courses in my life. However I'm the 'administrator' in the house and I'm in charge of my parents computer (which I switch to Mac because they could not figure out the XP interface). Scary? Very common.... Made the CD image, which was easy. Tried to boot on the desktop: took me some googling to know how to access t= he BIOS set up (never had to do that with windows before), then found out t= he whole thing froze, did not know why, some more googling before I realize= I don't have the Fat32 format (no idea how to switch over and definitely n= ot interested in potentially screwing up my files doing so). Gave up on tha= t machine, Went on an older machine my kids were using (the 9 year old thought it was the coolest thing since it's not MS and he heard something about Linux). Boot it no problem from the CD. Got Firefox going then realize all the sites the kids like require plug-ins to be installed (they were getting impatient at this point), then went on VMK.com and Shockwave is required, then realize it's not going to work with Linux. The kids walked out of the room.... So I love the idea of open software, but for some reason I don't think Ubuntu is promoted right (OpenOffice either). You see Firefox everywhere, gets promoted everywhere and its virtues are well known to the general (non geek) public like myself. The installation and running needs to be a lot more intuitive ( I don't have any computer taught to me, it's always been intuitively pushing button to see what happens....). I definitely have no idea how to write a script. Sure I could have the option of buying a computer with Linux preinstalled but I'm not a computer geek per se and if I'm scared I'll be going back to either Mac or Windows and want something to work right out of the box. Hope that helps. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 12:44:30 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0703190544s7d454f42r6b99ee96195dfe84@mail.gmail.com> John, you said it all !! Thanks, Allen On 3/17/07, john wrote: > > I'm a complete newbie at this and I thought I would share some comments. > I love anything Open and found out about Ubuntu when installing > OpenOffice. Have been using Gmail and Firefox for years. > > I have never taken any computer courses in my life. However I'm the > 'administrator' in the house and I'm in charge of my parents computer > (which I switch to Mac because they could not figure out the XP > interface). Scary? Very common.... > > Made the CD image, which was easy. > Tried to boot on the desktop: took me some googling to know how to access > the BIOS set up (never had to do that with windows before), then found out > the whole thing froze, did not know why, some more googling before I real= ize > I don't have the Fat32 format (no idea how to switch over and definitely = not > interested in potentially screwing up my files doing so). Gave up on that > machine, > > Went on an older machine my kids were using (the 9 year old thought it > was the coolest thing since it's not MS and he heard something about > Linux). Boot it no problem from the CD. Got Firefox going then realize > all the sites the kids like require plug-ins to be installed (they were > getting impatient at this point), then went on VMK.com and Shockwave is > required, then realize it's not going to work with Linux. The kids > walked out of the room.... > > So I love the idea of open software, but for some reason I don't think > Ubuntu is promoted right (OpenOffice either). You see Firefox > everywhere, gets promoted everywhere and its virtues are well known to > the general (non geek) public like myself. > > The installation and running needs to be a lot more intuitive ( I don't > have any computer taught to me, it's always been intuitively pushing > button to see what happens....). I definitely have no idea how to write > a script. Sure I could have the option of buying a computer with Linux > preinstalled but I'm not a computer geek per se and if I'm scared I'll > be going back to either Mac or Windows and want something to work right > out of the box. > > Hope that helps. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 > --=20 > http://adventures-with-the-rascals.blogspot.com/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mommedia.com (dcodex2013-deactivatedaccount) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 02:19:29 -0000 Message-Id: <20070322021929.5152.57213.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Please, this is not a bug, this is a choice and people have the choice to continue to use MS or not. I do not blame most consumers, I would not want to have to deal with drivers and other issues after paying so much for a PC. And it just happens that MS does provide that... If I am paying I would choose something that is functional out the box and MS delivers. For me, I rather deal with drivers and other issues, and that is my choice, because I choose to not to deal with running other ten applications for some security nonsense problems. That as a result, for that same reason by the time I am finish running those applications, I have turn on the computer to take care of that and not be productive, lets not mention having to spend more money on other programs just to keep it on. If that was the case I prefer not to use a computer at all. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mommedia.com (dcodex2013-deactivatedaccount) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 02:22:37 -0000 Message-Id: <20070322022238.23891.93847.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Svp, ce n'est pas un bogue, c'est un choix et les gens ont le choix =C3=A0 continuer =C3=A0 employer la MME. ou pas. Je ne bl=C3=A2me pas la plupart d= es consommateurs, je ne voudrais pas devoir traiter des conducteurs et d'autres issues apr=C3=A8s avoir pay=C3=A9 tellement un PC. Et il se produi= t juste que la MME. fournit cela... Si je paye je choisirais quelque chose qui est fonctionnelle hors de la bo=C3=AEte et la MME. livre. Pour moi, je trai= te plut=C3=B4t des conducteurs et d'autres issues, et c'est mon choix, parce q= ue je choisis =C3=A0 de ne pas traiter courir dix autres demandes de quelques probl=C3=A8mes de non-sens de s=C3=A9curit=C3=A9. Cela en cons=C3=A9quence,= pour cette m=C3=AAme raison avant que je sois finition courant ces applications, j'ai pour mettre en marche l'ordinateur au soin de prise de cela et ne pas =C3=AAtre productif, laisse pas la mention devant d=C3=A9penser plus d'argent en d'autres programmes juste pour le garder dessus. Si c'=C3=A9tait le cas je pr=C3=A9f=C3=A9rez ne pas utiliser un ordinateur du tout. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mommedia.com (dcodex2013-deactivatedaccount) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 02:23:21 -0000 Message-Id: <20070322022321.5152.29629.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Bitte ist dieses nicht eine Wanze, ist dieses eine Wahl und Leute haben die Wahl, zum fortzufahren, MS zu verwenden oder nicht. Ich tadele nicht die meisten Verbraucher, w=C3=BCrde ich nicht Treiber und andere Ausgaben besch=C3=A4ftigen m=C3=BCssen wollen, nachdem ich soviel f=C3=BCr einen PC = gezahlt hatte. Und er geschieht gerade, da=C3=9F MS voraussetzt das... Wenn ich zahle, w=C3=BCrde ich etwas w=C3=A4hlen, das aus dem Kasten funktionell ist= und MS liefert. F=C3=BCr mich besch=C3=A4ftige ich eher Treiber und andere Ausgabe= n, und die ist meine Wahl, weil ich zu, beschlie=C3=9Fe nicht das Laufen lassen anderer 10 Anwendungen f=C3=BCr einige Sicherheit Unsinn Probleme zu besch=C3=A4ftigen. Das infolgedessen, aus diesem gleichen Grund, bis ich das Ende bin, das jene Anwendungen laufen l=C3=A4=C3=9Ft, habe ich, den Compute= r zur Nehmenobacht von dem einzuschalten und produktiv nicht l=C3=A4=C3=9Ft zu se= in, nicht die m=C3=BCssende Erw=C3=A4hnung mehr Geld f=C3=BCr andere Programme = nur ausgeben, um es an zu halten. Wenn der der Fall ich war, ziehen Sie, es vor einen Computer nicht an allen zu benutzen. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mommedia.com (dcodex2013-deactivatedaccount) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 02:23:59 -0000 Message-Id: <20070322022359.5152.87100.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> =CE=A0=CE=B1=CF=81=CE=B1=CE=BA=CE=B1=CE=BB=CF=8E, =CE=B1=CF=85=CF=84=CF=8C = =CE=B4=CE=B5=CE=BD =CE=B5=CE=AF=CE=BD=CE=B1=CE=B9 =CE=AD=CE=BD=CE=B1 =CE=B6= =CF=89=CF=8D=CF=86=CE=B9=CE=BF, =CE=B1=CF=85=CF=84=CF=8C =CE=B5=CE=AF=CE=BD= =CE=B1=CE=B9 =CE=BC=CE=B9=CE=B1 =CE=B5=CF=80=CE=B9=CE=BB=CE=BF=CE=B3=CE=AE = =CE=BA=CE=B1=CE=B9 =CE=BF=CE=B9 =CE=AC=CE=BD=CE=B8=CF=81=CF=89=CF=80=CE=BF=CE=B9 =CE=AD=CF=87=CE=BF=CF=85= =CE=BD =CF=84=CE=B7=CE=BD =CE=B5=CF=80=CE=B9=CE=BB=CE=BF=CE=B3=CE=AE =CE=B3= =CE=B9=CE=B1 =CE=BD=CE=B1 =CF=83=CF=85=CE=BD=CE=B5=CF=87=CE=AF=CF=83=CE=BF= =CF=85=CE=BD =CE=BD=CE=B1 =CF=87=CF=81=CE=B7=CF=83=CE=B9=CE=BC=CE=BF=CF=80= =CE=BF=CE=B9=CE=BF=CF=8D=CE=BD =CF=84=CE=B1 =CE=BA=CF=81=CE=AC=CF=84=CE=B7 =CE=BC=CE=AD=CE=BB=CE=B7 =CE=AE =CF=8C=CF=87=CE=B9. =CE=94=CE=B5=CE=BD =CE= =BA=CE=B1=CF=84=CE=B7=CE=B3=CE=BF=CF=81=CF=8E =CF=84=CE=BF=CF=85=CF=82 =CF= =80=CE=B5=CF=81=CE=B9=CF=83=CF=83=CF=8C=CF=84=CE=B5=CF=81=CE=BF=CF=85=CF=82= =CE=BA=CE=B1=CF=84=CE=B1=CE=BD=CE=B1=CE=BB=CF=89=CF=84=CE=AD=CF=82, =CE=B4= =CE=B5=CE=BD =CE=B8=CE=B1 =CE=AE=CE=B8=CE=B5=CE=BB=CE=B1 =CE=BD=CE=B1 =CF=80=CF=81=CE=AD=CF=80=CE=B5=CE=B9 =CE=BD=CE=B1 =CE=B5=CE=BE=CE=B5=CF=84= =CE=AC=CF=83=CF=89 =CF=84=CE=BF=CF=85=CF=82 =CE=BF=CE=B4=CE=B7=CE=B3=CE=BF= =CF=8D=CF=82 =CE=BA=CE=B1=CE=B9 =CE=AC=CE=BB=CE=BB=CE=B1 =CE=B6=CE=B7=CF=84= =CE=AE=CE=BC=CE=B1=CF=84=CE=B1 =CE=BC=CE=B5=CF=84=CE=AC =CE=B1=CF=80=CF=8C = =CE=BD=CE=B1 =CF=80=CE=BB=CE=B7=CF=81=CF=8E=CF=83=CF=89 =CF=84=CF=8C=CF=83=CE=BF =CE=BC=CE=B5=CE=B3=CE=AC=CE=BB=CE=BF =CE=BC=CE=AD= =CF=81=CE=BF=CF=82 =CE=B3=CE=B9=CE=B1 =CE=AD=CE=BD=CE=B1 PC. =CE=9A=CE=B1= =CE=B9 =CE=B1=CE=BA=CF=81=CE=B9=CE=B2=CF=8E=CF=82 =CF=83=CF=85=CE=BC=CE=B2= =CE=B1=CE=AF=CE=BD=CE=B5=CE=B9 =CE=BD=CE=B1 =CE=BF=CF=81=CE=AF=CE=B6=CE=B5= =CE=B9 =CF=84=CE=BF =CE=BA=CF=81=CE=AC=CF=84=CE=BF=CF=82 =CE=BC=CE=AD=CE=BB=CE=BF=CF=82 =CF=8C=CF=84=CE=B9... =CE=95=CE=AC=CE=BD =CE= =B5=CE=AF=CE=BC=CE=B1=CE=B9 =CF=80=CE=BB=CE=B7=CF=81=CF=8E=CE=BD=CE=BF=CE= =BD=CF=84=CE=B1=CF=82 =CE=B8=CE=B1 =CE=B5=CF=80=CE=AD=CE=BB=CE=B5=CE=B3=CE= =B1 =CE=BA=CE=AC=CF=84=CE=B9 =CF=80=CE=BF=CF=85 =CE=B5=CE=AF=CE=BD=CE=B1=CE= =B9 =CE=BB=CE=B5=CE=B9=CF=84=CE=BF=CF=85=CF=81=CE=B3=CE=B9=CE=BA=CF=8C =CE=AD=CE=BE=CF=89 =CF=84=CE=BF =CE=BA=CE=B9=CE=B2=CF=8E=CF=84=CE=B9=CE=BF = =CE=BA=CE=B1=CE=B9 =CF=84=CE=BF =CE=BA=CF=81=CE=AC=CF=84=CE=BF=CF=82 =CE=BC= =CE=AD=CE=BB=CE=BF=CF=82 =CF=80=CE=B1=CF=81=CE=B1=CE=B4=CE=AF=CE=B4=CE=B5= =CE=B9. =CE=93=CE=B9=CE=B1 =CE=BC=CE=B5, =CE=B5=CE=BE=CE=B5=CF=84=CE=AC=CE= =B6=CF=89 =CE=BC=CE=AC=CE=BB=CE=BB=CE=BF=CE=BD =CF=84=CE=BF=CF=85=CF=82 =CE=BF=CE=B4=CE=B7=CE=B3=CE=BF=CF=8D=CF=82 =CE=BA= =CE=B1=CE=B9 =CE=AC=CE=BB=CE=BB=CE=B1 =CE=B6=CE=B7=CF=84=CE=AE=CE=BC=CE=B1= =CF=84=CE=B1, =CE=BA=CE=B1=CE=B9 =CE=B1=CF=85=CF=84=CE=AE =CE=B5=CE=AF=CE= =BD=CE=B1=CE=B9 =CE=B7 =CE=B5=CF=80=CE=B9=CE=BB=CE=BF=CE=B3=CE=AE =CE=BC=CE= =BF=CF=85, =CE=B5=CF=80=CE=B5=CE=B9=CE=B4=CE=AE =CE=B5=CF=80=CE=B9=CE=BB=CE=AD=CE=B3=CF=89 =CE=BD=CE=B1 =CE=BC=CE=B7=CE=BD = =CE=B5=CE=BE=CE=B5=CF=84=CE=AC=CF=83=CF=89 =CF=84=CE=BF =CF=84=CF=81=CE=AD= =CE=BE=CE=B9=CE=BC=CE=BF =CE=AC=CE=BB=CE=BB=CF=89=CE=BD =CE=B4=CE=AD=CE=BA= =CE=B1 =CE=B5=CF=86=CE=B1=CF=81=CE=BC=CE=BF=CE=B3=CF=8E=CE=BD =CE=B3=CE=B9= =CE=B1 =CE=BC=CE=B5=CF=81=CE=B9=CE=BA=CE=AC =CF=80=CF=81=CE=BF=CE=B2=CE=BB=CE=AE=CE=BC=CE=B1=CF=84=CE=B1 =CE=B1=CE=B7= =CE=B4=CE=B9=CF=8E=CE=BD =CE=B1=CF=83=CF=86=CE=AC=CE=BB=CE=B5=CE=B9=CE=B1= =CF=82. =CE=91=CF=85=CF=84=CF=8C=CF=82 =CE=BA=CE=B1=CF=84=CE=AC =CF=83=CF= =85=CE=BD=CE=AD=CF=80=CE=B5=CE=B9=CE=B1, =CE=B3=CE=B9=CE=B1 =CE=B5=CE=BA=CE= =B5=CE=AF=CE=BD=CE=BF =CF=84=CE=BF=CE=BD =CE=AF=CE=B4=CE=B9=CE=BF =CE=BB=CF=8C=CE=B3=CE=BF =CF=8E=CF=83=CF=80=CE=BF=CF=85 =CE=BD=CE=B1 =CE=B5= =CE=AF=CE=BC=CE=B1=CE=B9 =CF=84=CE=AD=CF=81=CE=BC=CE=B1 =CF=80=CE=BF=CF=85 = =CF=84=CF=81=CE=AD=CF=87=CE=B5=CE=B9 =CE=B5=CE=BA=CE=B5=CE=AF=CE=BD=CE=B5= =CF=82 =CF=84=CE=B9=CF=82 =CE=B5=CF=86=CE=B1=CF=81=CE=BC=CE=BF=CE=B3=CE=AD= =CF=82, =CF=80=CF=81=CE=AD=CF=80=CE=B5=CE=B9 =CE=BD=CE=B1 =CE=B1=CE=BD=CE=BF=CE=AF=CE=BE=CF=89 =CF=84=CE=BF=CE=BD =CF=85=CF=80=CE=BF= =CE=BB=CE=BF=CE=B3=CE=B9=CF=83=CF=84=CE=AE =CE=B3=CE=B9=CE=B1 =CE=BD=CE=B1 = =CF=86=CF=81=CE=BF=CE=BD=CF=84=CE=AF=CF=83=CF=89 =CE=B1=CF=85=CF=84=CF=8C= =CF=82 =CE=BA=CE=B1=CE=B9 =CE=BD=CE=B1 =CE=BC=CE=B7=CE=BD =CE=B5=CE=AF=CE= =BC=CE=B1=CE=B9 =CF=80=CE=B1=CF=81=CE=B1=CE=B3=CF=89=CE=B3=CE=B9=CE=BA=CF=8C=CF=82, =CE=B1= =CF=86=CE=AE=CE=BD=CF=89 =CF=8C=CF=87=CE=B9 =CF=84=CE=B7=CE=BD =CE=B1=CE=BD= =CE=B1=CF=86=CE=BF=CF=81=CE=AC =CF=80=CE=BF=CF=85 =CF=80=CF=81=CE=AD=CF=80= =CE=B5=CE=B9 =CE=BD=CE=B1 =CE=BE=CE=BF=CE=B4=CE=B5=CF=88=CF=89 =CF=80=CE=B5= =CF=81=CE=B9=CF=83=CF=83=CF=8C=CF=84=CE=B5=CF=81=CE=B1 =CF=87=CF=81=CE=AE=CE=BC=CE=B1=CF=84=CE=B1 =CF=83=CE=B5 =CE=AC=CE=BB=CE=BB= =CE=B1 =CF=80=CF=81=CE=BF=CE=B3=CF=81=CE=AC=CE=BC=CE=BC=CE=B1=CF=84=CE=B1 = =CE=B3=CE=B9=CE=B1 =CE=BD=CE=B1 =CE=BA=CF=81=CE=B1=CF=84=CE=B7=CE=B8=CE=B5= =CE=AF =CE=B1=CE=BA=CF=81=CE=B9=CE=B2=CF=8E=CF=82 =CE=B5=CF=80=CE=AC=CE=BD= =CF=89. =CE=95=CE=AC=CE=BD =CE=B1=CF=85=CF=84=CE=AE =CF=83=CF=85=CE=BD=CE=AD=CE=B2=CE=B7 =CF=80=CF=81=CE=BF=CF=84=CE=B9=CE=BC= =CF=8E =CE=BD=CE=B1 =CE=BC=CE=B7=CE=BD =CF=87=CF=81=CE=B7=CF=83=CE=B9=CE=BC= =CE=BF=CF=80=CE=BF=CE=B9=CE=AE=CF=83=CF=89 =CE=AD=CE=BD=CE=B1=CE=BD =CF=85= =CF=80=CE=BF=CE=BB=CE=BF=CE=B3=CE=B9=CF=83=CF=84=CE=AE =CE=BA=CE=B1=CE=B8= =CF=8C=CE=BB=CE=BF=CF=85 =CF=8C=CE=BB=CE=BF=CE=B9. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mommedia.com (dcodex2013-deactivatedaccount) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 02:24:35 -0000 Message-Id: <20070322022435.24013.45694.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Prego, questo non =C3=A8 un insetto, questa =C3=A8 una scelta e la gente ha= la scelta da continuare ad usare la MS oppure no. Non incolpo della maggior parte dei consumatori, non desidererei dovere occuparsi dei driver e di altre edizioni dopo il pagamento cos=C3=AC tanto un pc. Ed accade appena che la MS assicura quella... Se sto pagando sceglierei qualcosa che fosse funzionale verso l'esterno la scatola e la MS trasporta. Per me, piuttosto mi occupo dei driver e di altre edizioni e quella =C3=A8 la mia scelta, perch=C3=A9 scelgo a non occuparsi del funzionamento delle altre dieci domande di alcuni problemi di assurdit=C3=A0 di sicurezza. Quello di conseguenza, per quel stesso motivo per il momento in cui sia rivestimento che fa funzionare quelle applicazioni, ho accendere il calcolatore in cura dell'introito di quello e non essere produttivo, lascia non la menzione che deve spendere appena pi=C3=B9 soldi su altri programmi per mantenerli sopra. Se quello fosse il caso io preferisca non utilizzare un calcolatore affatto. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mommedia.com (dcodex2013-deactivatedaccount) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 02:25:17 -0000 Message-Id: <20070322022517.24013.19930.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> =E3=80=81=E3=81=93=E3=82=8C=E3=81=AF=E8=99=AB=E3=81=A7=E3=81=AA=E3=81=84=E3= =80=81=E3=81=93=E3=82=8C=E3=81=AF=E9=81=B8=E6=8A=9E=E3=81=A7=E3=81=82=E3=82= =8A=E3=80=81=E4=BA=BA=E3=80=85=E3=81=AB=E6=B0=8F=E3=82=92=E4=BD=BF=E7=94=A8= =E3=81=97=E7=B6=9A=E3=81=91=E3=82=8B=E9=81=B8=E6=8A=9E=E3=81=8C=E3=81=BE=E3= =81=9F=E3=81=AF=E3=81=AA=E3=81=84=E3=81=82=E3=82=8B=E3=80=82=E7=A7=81=E3=81= =AF=E3=81=BB=E3=81=A8=E3=82=93=E3=81=A9=E3=81=AE=E6=B6=88=E8=B2=BB=E8=80=85= =E3=81=AE=E8=B2=AC=E4=BB=BB=E3=81=AB=E3=81=97=E3=81=AA=E3=81=84=E3=80=81=E7= =A7=81=E3=81=AFPC =E3=81=AE=E3=81=9D=E3=82=93=E3=81=AA=E3=81=AB=E6=94=AF=E6=89=95=E3=82=92=E3= =81=99=E3=82=8B=E3=81=93=E3=81=A8=E3=81=AE=E5=BE=8C=E3=81=AE=E9=81=8B=E8=BB= =A2=E8=80=85=E3=81=9D=E3=81=97=E3=81=A6=E4=BB=96=E3=81=AE=E5=95=8F=E9=A1=8C= =E3=82=92=E5=8F=96=E6=89=B1=E3=82=8F=E3=81=AA=E3=81=91=E3=82=8C=E3=81=B0=E3= =81=AA=E3=82=8A=E3=81=9F=E3=81=84=E3=81=A8=E6=80=9D=E3=81=86=E3=80=82=E3=81= =9D=E3=81=97=E3=81=A6=E3=81=9D=E3=82=8C=E3=81=AF=E3=81=A1=E3=82=87=E3=81=86= =E3=81=A9=E6=B0=8F=E3=81=8C=E3=81=9D=E3=82=8C=E3=82=92... =E6=8F=90=E4=BE=9B=E3=81=99=E3=82=8B=E3=81=93=E3=81=A8=E8=B5=B7=E3=81=93=E3= =82=8B=E6=94=AF=E6=89=95=E3=81=88=E3=81=B0=E7=A7=81=E3=81=AF=E7=AE=B1=E3=81= =8B=E3=82=89=E6=A9=9F=E8=83=BD=E3=81=A7=E3=81=82=E3=82=8A=E3=80=81=E6=B0=8F= =E3=81=8C=E6=B8=A1=E3=81=99=E4=BD=95=E3=81=8B=E3=82=92=E9=81=B8=E3=81=B6=E3= =80=82=E7=A7=81=E3=81=AE=E3=81=9F=E3=82=81=E3=81=AB=E3=80=81=E7=A7=81=E3=81= =AF=E9=81=8B=E8=BB=A2=E8=80=85=E5=8F=8A=E3=81=B3=E4=BB=96=E3=81=AE=E5=95=8F= =E9=A1=8C=E3=82=92=E3=82=80=E3=81=97=E3=82=8D=E5=8F=96=E6=89=B1=E3=81=84=E3= =80=81=E3=81=9D=E3=82=8C=E3=81=AF=E7=A7=81=E3=81=8C=E3=81=82=E3=82=8B=E4=BF= =9D=E8=A8=BC=E3=83=8A=E3=83=B3=E3=82=BB=E3=83=B3=E3=82=B9=E5=95=8F=E9=A1=8C= =E3=81=AE=E3=81=9F=E3=82=81=E3=81=AE=E4=BB=96=E3=81=AE10 =E3=81=AE=E9=81=A9=E7=94=A8=E3=82=92=E5=8B=95=E3=81=8B=E3=81=99=E3=81=93=E3= =81=A8=E3=82=92=E5=8F=96=E6=89=B1=E3=82=8F=E3=81=AA=E3=81=84=E3=81=93=E3=81= =A8=E3=82=92=E3=81=AB=E9=81=B8=E3=81=B6=E3=81=AE=E3=81=A7=E3=80=81=E7=A7=81= =E3=81=AE=E9=81=B8=E6=8A=9E=E3=81=A7=E3=81=82=E3=82=8B=E3=80=82=E7=A7=81=E3= =81=8C=E3=81=9D=E3=82=8C=E3=82=89=E3=81=AE=E9=81=A9=E7=94=A8=E3=82=92=E5=8B= =95=E3=81=8B=E3=81=99=E7=B5=82=E3=82=8F=E3=82=8A=E3=81=A7=E3=81=82=E3=82=8B= =E3=81=BE=E3=81=A7=E3=81=AB=E3=81=9D=E3=81=AE=E5=90=8C=E3=81=98=E7=90=86=E7= =94=B1=E3=81=AE=E3=81=9F=E3=82=81=E3=81=AE=E3=81=9D=E3=81=AE=E7=B5=90=E6=9E= =9C=E3=81=9D=E3=82=8C=E3=80=81=E7=A7=81=E3=81=AF=E3=81=9D=E3=82=8C=E3=81=AE= =E5=8F=96=E5=BE=97=E5=BF=83=E9=85=8D=E3=81=AB=E3=82=B3=E3=83=B3=E3=83=94=E3= =83=A5=E3=83=BC=E3=82=BF=E3=82=92=E3=81=A4=E3=81=91=E3=82=8B=E3=81=93=E3=81= =A8=E3=82=92=E6=8C=81=E3=81=A1=E3=80=81=E3=81=9D=E3=82=8C=E3=82=92=E4=BF=9D= =E3=81=A4=E3=81=9F=E3=82=81=E3=81=AB=E7=94=9F=E7=94=A3=E7=9A=84=E3=81=A7=E3= =81=AA=E3=81=84=E3=81=93=E3=81=A8=E3=81=AF=E3=80=81=E4=BB=96=E3=81=AE=E3=83= =97=E3=83=AD=E3=82=B0=E3=83=A9=E3=83=A0=E3=81=AB=E3=82=88=E3=82=8A=E5=A4=9A= =E3=81=8F=E3=81=AE=E3=81=8A=E9=87=91=E3=82=92=E3=81=A1=E3=82=87=E3=81=86=E3= =81=A9=E4=BD=BF=E3=82=8F=E3=81=AA=E3=81=91=E3=82=8C=E3=81=B0=E3=81=AA=E3=82= =89=E3=81=AA=E3=81=84=E3=81=AA=E3=81=84=E8=A8=80=E5=8F=8A=E3=82=92=E5=8F=AF= =E8=83=BD=E3=81=AB=E3=81=99=E3=82=8B=E3=80=82=E3=81=9D=E3=82=8C=E3=81=8C=E7= =A7=81=E4=BA=8B=E5=AE=9F=E5=85=A8=E7=84=B6=E3=82=B3=E3=83=B3=E3=83=94=E3=83= =A5=E3=83=BC=E3=82=BF=E3=82=92=E4=BD=BF=E7=94=A8=E3=81=97=E3=81=AA=E3=81=84= =E3=81=9F=E3=82=81=E3=81=AB=E5=A5=BD=E3=81=BF=E3=81=AA=E3=81=95=E3=81=84=E3= =80=82 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mommedia.com (dcodex2013-deactivatedaccount) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 02:25:51 -0000 Message-Id: <20070322022551.23891.6992.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> , =EC=9D=B4=EA=B2=83=EC=9D=80 =EB=B2=8C=EB=A0=88=EA=B0=80 =EC=95=84=EB=8B= =88=EB=8B=A4, =EC=9D=B4=EA=B2=83=EC=9D=80 =EC=84=A0=ED=83=9D =EC=9D=B4=EA= =B3=A0 =EC=82=AC=EB=9E=8C=EC=9D=80Ms=EC=9D=84 =EC=82=AC=EC=9A=A9=ED=95=98= =EA=B8=B0 =EC=9C=84=ED=95=98=EC=97=AC =EA=B3=84=EC=86=8D=ED=95=A0 =EA=B2=83= =EC=9D=B4=EB=8B=A4 =EC=84=A0=ED=83=9D=EC=9D=B4 =EB=98=90=EB=8A=94 =EC=95=84= =EB=8B=88=EB=8B=A4 =EC=9E=88=EB=8A=94=EB=8B=A4. =EB=82=98=EB=8A=94 =EA=B0= =80=EC=9E=A5 =ED=81=B0 =EC=86=8C=EB=B9=84=EC=9E=90=EB=A5=BC =EB=B9=84=EB=82=9C=ED=95=98=EC=A7=80 = =EC=95=8A=EB=8A=94=EB=8B=A4, =EB=82=98=EB=8A=94 =EC=88=9C=EC=A0=84=ED=9E=88= PC=EC=9D=84 =EC=9C=84=ED=95=B4 =EC=A7=80=EB=B6=88=EB=8B=A4=EC=9D=8C=EC=97= =90 =EC=9A=B4=EC=A0=84=EC=82=AC =EA=B7=B8=EB=A6=AC=EA=B3=A0 =EB=8B=A4=EB=A5= =B8 =EB=AC=B8=EC=A0=9C=EC=A0=90=EC=9D=84 =EB=8B=A4=EB=A3=A8=EC=96=B4=EC=95= =BC =ED=95=98=EA=B3=A0 =EC=8B=B6=EC=A7=80 =EC=95=8A=EC=9D=84=ED=85=90=EB=8D= =B0. =EA=B7=B8=EB=A6=AC=EA=B3=A0Ms=EC=9D=B4 =EC=A0=80=EA=B2=83=EC=9D=84... =EC= =A0=9C=EA=B3=B5=ED=95=9C=EB=8B=A4 =EA=B3=A0 =EA=B7=B8=EA=B2=83=EC=9D=80 =EB= =8B=A4=EB=A7=8C =EC=9D=BC=EC=96=B4=EB=82=9C=EB=8B=A4 =EB=82=98=EA=B0=80 =EC= =A7=80=EB=B6=88=ED=95=98=EB=A9=B4 =EB=82=98=EB=8A=94 =EC=83=81=EC=9E=90=EC= =97=90=EC=84=9C =EA=B8=B0=EB=8A=A5=EC=A0=81 =EC=9D=B4=EA=B3=A0Ms=EC=9D=B4 = =EB=B0=B0=EB=8B=AC=ED=95=98=EB=8A=94 =EB=AC=B4=EC=96=B8=EA=B0=80=EB=A5=BC =EC=84=A0=ED=83=9D=ED=95=A0=ED=85=90=EB=8D=B0. =EB=82=98=EA=B0=80 =EB=AA=87= =EB=AA=87 =EC=95=88=EC=A0=84 =EB=82=9C=EC=84=BC=EC=8A=A4 =EB=AC=B8=EC=A0=9C= =EB=A5=BC =EC=9C=84=ED=95=B4 =EB=8B=A4=EB=A5=B8 10=EA=B0=9C=EC=9D=98 =EC=8B= =A0=EC=B2=AD=EC=9D=84 =EB=8B=AC=EB=A6=AC=EA=B8=B0=EB=A5=BC =EB=8B=A4=EB=A3= =A8=EC=A7=80 =EC=95=8A=EA=B8=B0=EA=B2=83=EC=9D=84=EC=97=90 =EC=84=A0=ED=83= =9D=ED=95=98=EA=B8=B0 =EB=95=8C=EB=AC=B8=EC=97=90, =EB=82=98=EB=A5=BC =EC= =9C=84=ED=95=B4, =EB=82=98=EB=8A=94 =EC=9A=B4=EC=A0=84=EC=82=AC=EC=99=80 =EB=8B=A4=EB=A5=B8 = =EB=AC=B8=EC=A0=9C=EC=A0=90=EC=9D=84 =EC=98=A4=ED=9E=88=EB=A0=A4 =EB=8B=A4= =EB=A3=A8=EA=B3=A0, =EC=A0=80=EA=B2=83=EC=9D=80 =EB=82=98=EC=9D=98 =EC=84= =A0=ED=83=9D =EC=9D=B4=EB=8B=A4. =EB=82=98=EA=B0=80 =EA=B7=B8 =EC=8B=A0=EC= =B2=AD=EC=9D=84 =EB=8B=AC=EB=A6=B4 =EB=81=9D =EC=9D=B4=EC=9D=84 =EA=B7=B8 = =EB=95=8C=EA=B9=8C=EC=A7=80=EB=8A=94 =EC=A0=80 =EB=8F=99=EC=9D=BC=ED=95=9C = =EC=9D=B4=EC=9C=A0=EB=A5=BC =EC=9C=84=ED=95=B4 =EC=A0=80=EA=B2=83 =EA=B7=B8 =EA=B2=B0=EA=B3=BC=EB=A1=9C= , =EB=82=98=EB=8A=94 =EC=A0=80=EA=B2=83=EC=9D=98 =ED=8F=AC=ED=9A=8D =EB=B0= =B0=EB=A0=A4=EC=97=90 =EC=BB=B4=ED=93=A8=ED=84=B0=EB=A5=BC =EC=BC=A0=EA=B2= =83=EC=9D=84 =EC=9E=88=EA=B3=A0 =EA=B7=B8=EA=B2=83=EC=9D=84 =EC=9C=84=EC=97= =90 =EC=A7=80=ED=82=A4=EA=B8=B0 =EC=9C=84=ED=95=98=EC=97=AC =EC=83=9D=EC=82= =B0=EC=A0=81 =EC=9D=B4=EC=A7=80 =EC=95=8A=EC=9D=8C=EA=B2=83=EC=9D=80, =EB= =8B=A4=EB=A5=B8 =ED=94=84=EB=A1=9C=EA=B7=B8=EB=9E=A8 =EB=8F=88=EC=97=90 =EB=8D=94 =EB=8B=A4= =EB=A7=8C =EC=86=8C=EB=B9=84=ED=95=B4=EC=95=BC=EA=B2=83=EC=9D=84 =ED=95=98= =EB=8A=94 =EC=95=84=EB=8B=88=EB=8B=A4 =EC=96=B8=EA=B8=89=EC=9D=84 =EC=8B=9C= =ED=82=A8=EB=8B=A4. =EC=A0=80=EA=B2=83=EC=9D=B4 =EC=82=AC=EC=8B=A4 =EB=82= =98 =EC=9D=B4=EC=9C=BC=EB=A9=B4 =EB=AA=A8=EB=91=90=EC=97=90 =EC=BB=B4=ED=93= =A8=ED=84=B0=EB=A5=BC =EC=82=AC=EC=9A=A9=ED=95=98=EC=A7=80 =EC=95=8A=EA=B8= =B0 =EC=9C=84=ED=95=98=EC=97=AC =EC=A2=8B=EC=95=84=ED=95=98=EC=8B=AD=EC=8B=9C=EC=9A=94. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mommedia.com (dcodex2013-deactivatedaccount) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 02:26:19 -0000 Message-Id: <20070322022619.24013.6457.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Por favor, este n=C3=A3o =C3=A9 um erro, esta =C3=A9 uma escolha e os povos= t=C3=AAm a escolha a continuar a usar o MS ou n=C3=A3o. Eu n=C3=A3o responsabilizo a m= aioria de consumidores, eu n=C3=A3o quereria ter que tratar dos excitadores e das outras edi=C3=A7=C3=B5es ap=C3=B3s ter pagado assim muito por um PC. E acon= tece apenas que o MS fornece aquele... Se eu estiver pagando eu escolheria algo que =C3=A9 funcional para fora da caixa e o MS entrega. Para mim, eu trato rath= er dos excitadores e das outras edi=C3=A7=C3=B5es, e aquela =C3=A9 minha escol= ha, porque eu escolho a n=C3=A3o tratar de funcionar outras dez aplica=C3=A7=C3=B5es p= ara alguns problemas do absurdo da seguran=C3=A7a. Isso em conseq=C3=BC=C3=AAncia, por= que aquele a mesma raz=C3=A3o pelo tempo eu sou revestimento que funciona aquelas aplica=C3=A7=C3=B5es, mim tenho girar sobre o computador para o cuidado da = tomada daquela e n=C3=A3o ser produtivo, deixa n=C3=A3o o mention que tem que gast= ar apenas mais dinheiro em outros programas para mant=C3=AA-lo sobre. Se aquele for o caso mim prefira n=C3=A3o usar um computador em tudo. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mommedia.com (dcodex2013-deactivatedaccount) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 02:26:52 -0000 Message-Id: <20070322022652.5103.65398.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> =D0=9F=D0=BE=D0=B6=D0=B0=D0=BB=D1=83=D0=B9=D1=81=D1=82=D0=B0, =D1=8D=D1=82= =D0=BE =D0=BD=D0=B5 =D0=B1=D1=83=D0=B4=D0=B5=D1=82 =D1=87=D0=B5=D1=80=D0=B5= =D0=BF=D0=B0=D1=88=D0=BA=D0=B0, =D1=8D=D1=82=D0=BE =D0=B1=D1=83=D0=B4=D0=B5= =D1=82 =D0=B2=D1=8B=D0=B1=D0=BE=D1=80 =D0=B8 =D0=BB=D1=8E=D0=B4=D0=B8 =D0= =B8=D0=BC=D0=B5=D1=8E=D1=82 =D0=B2=D1=8B=D0=B1=D0=BE=D1=80, =D0=BA=D0=BE=D1=82=D0=BE=D1=80 =D0=BD=D1=83=D0=B6=D0=BD=D0=BE =D0=BF=D1=80= =D0=BE=D0=B4=D0=BE=D0=BB=D0=B6=D0=B0=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=B8=D1=81=D0=BF=D0=BE= =D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B7=D0=BE=D0=B2=D0=B0=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=93=D0=9E=D0=A1=D0=9F= =D0=9E=D0=96=D0=A3 =D0=B8=D0=BB=D0=B8 =D0=BD=D0=B5. =D0=AF =D0=BD=D0=B5 =D0= =BE=D0=B1=D0=B2=D0=B8=D0=BD=D1=8F=D1=8E =D0=B1=D0=BE=D0=BB=D1=8C=D1=88=D0=B8=D0=BD=D1=81=D1=82=D0=B2 =D0=B5=D0=B4= =D0=BE=D0=BA=D0=BE=D0=B2, =D1=8F =D0=BD=D0=B5 =D1=85=D0=BE=D1=82=D0=B5=D0= =BB =D0=B1=D1=8B =D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=89=D0=B0=D1=82=D1=8C=D1=81=D1=8F =D1=81 = =D0=B2=D0=BE=D0=B4=D0=B8=D1=82=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8F=D0=BC=D0=B8 =D0=B8 =D0=B4= =D1=80=D1=83=D0=B3=D0=B8=D0=BC=D0=B8 =D0=B2=D0=BE=D0=BF=D1=80=D0=BE=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BC=D0=B8 =D0=BF=D0=BE=D1=81= =D0=BB=D0=B5 =D0=BE=D0=BF=D0=BB=D0=B0=D1=87=D0=B8=D0=B2=D0=B0=D1=82=D1=8C s= o much =D0=B4=D0=BB=D1=8F PC. =D0=98 =D0=BE=D0=BD =D0=BA=D0=B0=D0=BA =D1=80= =D0=B0=D0=B7 =D1=81=D0=BB=D1=83=D1=87=D0=B0=D0=B5=D1=82=D1=81=D1=8F =D1=87= =D1=82=D0=BE =D0=93=D0=9E=D0=A1=D0=9F=D0=9E=D0=96=D0=90 =D0=BE=D0=B1=D0=B5=D1=81=D0=BF= =D0=B5=D1=87=D0=B8=D0=B2=D0=B0=D0=B5=D1=82 =D1=82=D0=BE... =D0=95=D1=81=D0= =BB=D0=B8 =D1=8F =D0=BE=D0=BF=D0=BB=D0=B0=D1=87=D0=B8=D0=B2=D0=B0=D1=8E, = =D1=82=D0=BE =D1=8F =D0=B2=D1=8B=D0=B1=D1=80=D0=B0=D0=BB =D0=B1=D1=8B =D1= =87=D1=82=D0=BE-=D1=82=D0=BE =D1=84=D1=83=D0=BD=D0=BA=D1=86=D0=B8=D0=BE=D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=BD=D0= =BE =D0=B8=D0=B7 =D0=BA=D0=BE=D1=80=D0=BE=D0=B1=D0=BA=D0=B8 =D0=B8 =D0=93= =D0=9E=D0=A1=D0=9F=D0=9E=D0=96=D0=90 =D0=BF=D0=BE=D1=81=D1=82=D0=B0=D0=B2= =D0=BB=D1=8F=D0=B5=D1=82. =D0=94=D0=BB=D1=8F =D0=BC=D0=B5=D0=BD=D1=8F, =D1= =8F =D0=B4=D0=BE=D0=B2=D0=BE=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=BD=D0=BE =D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=89=D0=B0=D1=8E=D1=81=D1=8C =D1=81 =D0=B2=D0=BE=D0=B4=D0=B8= =D1=82=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8F=D0=BC=D0=B8 =D0=B8 =D0=B4=D1=80=D1=83=D0=B3=D0=B8= =D0=BC=D0=B8 =D0=B2=D0=BE=D0=BF=D1=80=D0=BE=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BC=D0=B8, =D0=B8= =D1=82=D0=BE =D0=B1=D1=83=D0=B4=D0=B5=D1=82 =D0=BC=D0=BE=D0=B9 =D0=B2=D1= =8B=D0=B1=D0=BE=D1=80, =D0=BF=D0=BE=D1=82=D0=BE=D0=BC=D1=83 =D1=87=D1=82=D0=BE =D1=8F =D0=B2=D1=8B=D0=B1=D0=B8=D1=80=D0=B0=D1=8E =D0=BA= =D0=BD=D0=B5 =D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=89=D0=B0=D1=82=D1=8C=D1=81=D1=8F =D1=81 =D0= =B1=D0=B5=D0=B6=D0=B0=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=B4=D1=80=D1=83=D0=B3=D0=B8=D0=B5 10 = =D0=BF=D1=80=D0=B8=D0=BC=D0=B5=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BD=D0=B8=D0=B9 =D0=B4=D0=BB= =D1=8F =D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BA=D0=BE=D1=82=D0=BE=D1=80=D1=8B=D1=85 =D0=BF=D1=80=D0=BE=D0=B1=D0=BB=D0=B5=D0=BC =D0=B2=D0=B7=D0=B4=D0=BE=D1=80= =D0=B0 =D0=BE=D0=B1=D0=B5=D1=81=D0=BF=D0=B5=D1=87=D0=B5=D0=BD=D0=BD=D0=BE= =D1=81=D1=82=D1=8C=D1=8E. =D0=A2=D0=BE =D0=B2 =D1=80=D0=B5=D0=B7=D1=83=D0= =BB=D1=8C=D1=82=D0=B0=D1=82=D0=B5, =D0=B4=D0=BB=D1=8F =D1=82=D0=BE=D0=B9 = =D1=82=D0=B0=D0=BA=D0=BE=D0=B9 =D0=B6=D0=B5 =D0=BF=D1=80=D0=B8=D1=87=D0=B8=D0=BD=D1=8B by the time =D1=8F =D0=B1=D1=83= =D0=B4=D1=83 =D0=BE=D1=82=D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BB=D0=BA=D0=BE=D0=B9 =D1=82=D0=B5 = =D0=BF=D1=80=D0=B8=D0=BC=D0=B5=D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BD=D0=B8=D1=8F, =D1=8F =D0=B8= =D0=BC=D0=B5=D1=8E =D0=B2=D0=BA=D0=BB=D1=8E=D1=87=D0=B8=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=BA=D0=BE=D0=BC=D0=BF=D1=8C=D1=8E=D1=82=D0=B5=D1=80 =D0=BA =D0=B2=D0=BD= =D0=B8=D0=BC=D0=B0=D1=82=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=81=D1=82=D0=B8 = =D0=B2=D0=B7=D1=8F=D1=82=D0=B8=D1=8F =D1=82=D0=BE=D0=B3=D0=BE =D0=B8 =D0=BD= =D0=B5 =D0=B1=D1=8B=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=BF=D1=80=D0=BE=D0=B8=D0=B7=D0=B2=D0=BE= =D0=B4=D0=B8=D1=82=D0=B5=D0=BB=D0=B5=D0=BD, =D0=BF=D1=80=D0=B5=D0=BF=D1=8F=D1=82=D1=81=D1=82=D0=B2=D1=83=D0=B5=D1=82 = =D0=BD=D0=B5 =D0=BF=D0=BE=D0=BC=D0=B8=D0=BD=D1=83 =D0=BF=D0=BE=D1=82=D1=80= =D0=B0=D1=82=D0=B8=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=B1=D0=BE=D0=BB=D1=8C=D1=88=D0=B5 =D0=B4= =D0=B5=D0=BD=D1=8C=D0=B3 =D0=BD=D0=B0 =D0=B4=D1=80=D1=83=D0=B3=D0=B8=D1=85 = =D0=BF=D1=80=D0=BE=D0=B3=D1=80=D0=B0=D0=BC=D0=BC=D0=B0=D1=85 =D0=BA=D0=B0= =D0=BA =D1=80=D0=B0=D0=B7 =D0=B4=D0=BB=D1=8F =D1=82=D0=BE=D0=B3=D0=BE =D1=87=D1=82= =D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=8B =D0=B4=D0=B5=D1=80=D0=B6=D0=B0=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=B5=D0=B3= =D0=BE =D0=B4=D0=B0=D0=BB=D1=8C=D1=88=D0=B5. =D0=95=D1=81=D0=BB=D0=B8 =D1= =82=D0=BE =D0=B1=D1=8B=D0=BB=D0=BE =D1=81=D0=BB=D1=83=D1=87=D0=B0=D0=B5=D0= =BC =D1=8F, =D1=82=D0=BE =D0=BF=D1=80=D0=B5=D0=B4=D0=BF=D0=BE=D1=87=D0=B8=D1=82=D0=B0=D0=B9=D1=82=D0= =B5 =D0=BD=D0=B5 =D0=B8=D1=81=D0=BF=D0=BE=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B7=D0=BE=D0=B2=D0= =B0=D1=82=D1=8C =D0=BA=D0=BE=D0=BC=D0=BF=D1=8C=D1=8E=D1=82=D0=B5=D1=80 =D0= =BD=D0=B0 =D0=B2=D1=81=D0=B5=D1=85. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mommedia.com (dcodex2013-deactivatedaccount) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 02:28:01 -0000 Message-Id: <20070322022801.24013.82816.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Por favor, esto no es un insecto/bicho, esto es una opci=C3=B3n y la gente tiene la opci=C3=B3n a continuar utilizando a MS o no. No culpo a la mayor= =C3=ADa de los consumidores, no desear=C3=ADa tener que ocuparme de los conductores= y de otras ediciones despu=C3=A9s de pagar tanto una PC. Y apenas sucede que = el MS proporciona eso... Si estoy pagando elegir=C3=ADa algo que es funcional fuera de la caja y el MS entrega. Para m=C3=AD, me ocupo algo de los conductores y de otras ediciones, y =C3=A9sa es mi opci=C3=B3n, porque elij= o a no ocuparme de funcionar otros diez usos para algunos problemas del absurdo de la seguridad. Eso consecuentemente, por esa misma raz=C3=B3n para el momento en que sea final que funciona esos usos, tengo girar la computadora al cuidado de la toma de eso y no ser productivo, deja no la menci=C3=B3n que tiene que pasar m=C3=A1s dinero en otros programas apenas = para guardarlo encendido. Si =C3=A9se era el caso yo prefiera no utilizar una computadora en todos. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mommedia.com (dcodex2013-deactivatedaccount) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 02:36:50 -0000 Message-Id: <20070322023650.23891.50698.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Por favor, esto no es un insecto, esto es una opci=C3=B3n y la gente tiene = la opci=C3=B3n a continuar utilizando a MS o no. No culpo a la mayor=C3=ADa de= los consumidores, no desear=C3=ADa tener que ocuparme de los conductores y de otras ediciones despu=C3=A9s de pagar tanto por una PC. Y apenas sucede que el MS proporciona eso... Si estoy pagando elegir=C3=ADa algo que es funcion= al fuera de la caja y el MS entrega. Pero yo, prefiero preocuparme de los conductores y de otras ediciones, y =C3=A9sa es mi opci=C3=B3n, porque elij= o a no ocuparme de las funciones de otros diez progrmas y sus problemas del absurdo de la seguridad. Por eso consecuentemente, esa misma raz=C3=B3n por el momento en que use la computadora noy hay tiempo para nada mas, y no menci=C3=B3nar que tiener que pagar m=C3=A1s dinero en otros programas solo= para tener la encendida. Si =C3=A9se fuese el caso yo prefiero no utilizar una computadora! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: towsonu2003 (towsonu2003) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 03:18:27 -0000 Message-Id: <4601F583.7090308@gmail.com> please respect the community code of conduct: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 04:21:52 -0000 Message-Id: <20070322042152.5152.59721.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> "If I am paying I would choose something that is functional out the box and MS delivers." Actually most people would argue that if you want to pay for proprietary software, Apple delivers far better than MS ;) "this is a choice and people have the choice to continue to use MS or not" How is it a choice when people can't easily buy a prebuilt system locally without an OS or with a free OS preinstalled? ("Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-installed.") Sure, people can choose to download and install Firefox, but you don't usually see it preinstalled. If Firefox was preinstalled on all Windows computers, how many people would go out of their way to install IE7? (not many I think) The same thing with VLC or OpenOffice.org or the GIMP, etc. etc. even though those all exist for Windows; preinstallation of proprietary software on retail computers is a barrier to usage of FOSS. Fortunately, even with this barrier to overcome, the message is getting out; as per http://www.xitimonitor.com/fr-fr/technique/firefox- mars-2007/index-1-1-3-77.html nearly a quarter of all Europeans using the internet are using Firefox! (with a high of 44.5% in Slovenia :) And once they're using Firefox on Windows, its not a big leap to using Firefox on Linux... of course, if they can find a computer to buy with preinstalled Linux that is. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mustafa A. Hashmi (mhashmi) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:40:41 -0000 Message-Id: <20070322124041.5152.56196.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Here in Pakistan, Microsoft is everywhere. Large corporates are using it legally, but for the most part, it is readily available by any software vendor at something like 1.5 USD. This is on a per CD basis and one can get any version one wants. Being open-source consultants in this region, we have had the pleasure of turning large corporates completely away from Microsoft. So much so, that our partnerships with local vendors were questioned and our partners threatened by Microsoft for having dealings with us. You know you're doing it right when you piss Microsoft heads off for the entire region ;) Recently, we have successfully migrated and moved forward with a financial institution which will deploy 255 branches nationwide in 4 years with Ubuntu (on the desktop) and Debian on the server side. We are exclusively working with Ubuntu on the desktop side, though we do support all Linux distributions, and doing what we can to stop this virus. Luckily, with the Vista strain looking to infect, our job seems to be made even easier. Our company had the pleasure of meeting Mark Shuttleworth when he was in Pakistan, and setting our goals for the future, we have strategic (software) plans which will help fight this virus even more effectively. Mark, we shall be in touch! Regards, -- Mustafa. P.S: Current Status: Deploying bug fix. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: N. Mazzoni (nmazzoni) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 23:25:56 -0000 Message-Id: <20070322232557.24013.26827.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> major bug fix breakthrough: http://www.linspire.com/lindows_news_pressreleases_archives.php?id=3D213 http://www.linspire.com/linspire_letter.php --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alex Latchford (alex.latchford) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 17:47:20 -0000 Message-Id: <20070323174721.32487.69863.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Can I ask who filed this bug against Firefox?? Thanks, Alex. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 18:45:27 -0000 Message-Id: <46042047.4070505@canonical.com> Alex Latchford wrote: > Can I ask who filed this bug against Firefox?? > =20 Good point - this info isn't exposed in the UI, I'll get that fixed asap. Mark --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mihai Felseghi (mihaifelseghi) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 18:45:37 -0000 Message-Id: <20070323184537.4465.69773.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Hello, I am from Romania and here microsoft is the majority even if many t= ry to spread opensource.Here you can find computers with linux preinstalled= but those who buy them are simply doing that because are cheaper without a= microsoft license and when they go home they simply reformat the hard disk= and install a pirated version of windows.One day someone even offered me 2= 5$ just to delete the preinstalled Red Hat on his computer.So I think that = the problem is not Microsoft but the people who are using computers, you se= e most of them just buy a computer to watch movies listen to music or brows= ing the web and most of them don't even care about the software cause I saw= many windows users who install programs with a double click and uninstalli= ng them using ctrl+a del :) I worked for mobile telephony company which used a browser based aplicatio= n for making contracts and whe asked if I could just install Ubuntu they w= ent crazy... the same thing when I have set up OpenOffice.It seems everybod= y are scared of Linux and nobody want to give a try and whe i say that I am= talking about the basic computer users they don't want to see a console th= ey don't want to use wine to play games or hack lirc to use a remote.I thin= k linux will spread when will be more idiot friendly. I am and will be a Ubuntu and open source advocate and i think is up to us= to change the way people think about ubuntu and linux in general I even of= fered free consultation and help just to make and keep people using Ubuntu = so this the the thing we all have to do to beat "the enemy " :) and win the= war. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Kilz (kilz) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 18:24:12 -0000 Message-Id: <20070324182413.23891.27061.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> The gap in market share may get worse. 32bit hardware is no longer being so= ld or manufactured. The 64bit version of Ubuntu doesn't "just work". In fac= t on large segments of the Ubuntu English Forums people are told to install= the 32bit version.=20 Common complaints about the 64bit version are missing applications, inabili= ty to install some applications, and the inability to install 32bit applica= tions as a stop gap measure. Multiarch has stalled in Debain. RPM based dis= tro's are increasingly multiarch. SuSE is completely multiarch. All the while development of the 32bit version is the main priority of Ubun= tu. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 01:45:33 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0703241845g154611fci5e0fc359681b2d74@mail.gmail.com> Hold on Kilz !!!!!!!!!!!!!ill For 2+ years Ubuntu 64 bit was and is the only O/S that will work and does work on my 64 bit system. On 3/24/07, Kilz wrote: > > The gap in market share may get worse. 32bit hardware is no longer being > sold or manufactured. The 64bit version of Ubuntu doesn't "just work". In > fact on large segments of the Ubuntu English Forums people are told to > install the 32bit version. > Common complaints about the 64bit version are missing applications, > inability to install some applications, and the inability to install 32bit > applications as a stop gap measure. Multiarch has stalled in Debain. RPM > based distro's are increasingly multiarch. SuSE is completely multiarch. > All the while development of the 32bit version is the main priority of > Ubuntu. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 > --=20 > http://adventures-with-the-rascals.blogspot.com/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alex Lowe (lengau) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 04:55:56 -0000 Message-Id: <20070325045557.24013.44080.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> The fix for this inside of Firefox is committed as of version 2.0 (firefox and other non-Microsoft browsers are gaining popularity with ever-increasing speed), but still has yet to be released, as seen by IE's 80+% market share. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mommedia.com (dcodex2013-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 06:02:27 -0000 Message-Id: <20070325060227.4570.55288.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Hello, I have no idea what you are talking about, I am presently using Firefox/2.0= .0.3 and this security issue is very serious and far from fixed. The brows= er keeps changing the setting on its own, to remember, passwords and all th= e crucial information an EU has entered on forms.=20 I have received false e-mails about someone trying to access one of my accounts with false information and requesting access to the bank account. However, the Bank had a protection that the computer from where the EU is logging on has to be authenticated via e-mail, that, is the only reason why it did not work for whomever has tried to enable this browser security setting. Guys... this is serious, and I hope that you know that with the millions of= individuals using Firefox, this could just be tremendous mess. So, hold o= n to your hats! F+P --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 14:25:29 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0703250725n67b65353gc2850ea52bf0c5ae@mail.gmail.com> To: F+P at mommedia, first, uninstall Firefox completely after you have saved your bookmarks.Nex= t, install 'Opera' or Konquerer or ?? This assumes you have done a full antivirus, sweep, and anti-everything , ads, popups, etc. Which Distro are you using ? If you're using a Windows O/S you will have to re-install, and if it's pirated it will cause endless problems. Then use Opera or X for 4-5 days, see if it still happens. RE: false e-mails, most of us get those after we have visited a site that promises to "never" share our email address !! The rest of the things you describe are common "spoofs" Allen On 3/25/07, mommedia.com wrote: > > Hello, > I have no idea what you are talking about, I am presently using > Firefox/2.0.0.3 and this security issue is very serious and far from > fixed. The browser keeps changing the setting on its own, to remember, > passwords and all the crucial information an EU has entered on forms. > > I have received false e-mails about someone trying to access one of my > accounts with false information and requesting access to the bank > account. However, the Bank had a protection that the computer from > where the EU is logging on has to be authenticated via e-mail, that, is > the only reason why it did not work for whomever has tried to enable > this browser security setting. > > Guys... this is serious, and I hope that you know that with the millions > of individuals using Firefox, this could just be tremendous mess. So, ho= ld > on to your hats! > F+P > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 > --=20 > http://adventures-with-the-rascals.blogspot.com/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: willem43 (willem-overmars) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 23:32:38 -0000 Message-Id: <20070325233239.4465.17121.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Well lets get a bit more optimistic. As far as I can see, the open source community went very far already in fixing this bug. Henry Ford had a large advantage after inventing the T-ford. That car dominated the market for decades. But in the end, a monopoly is against nature. Its too rigid. Its uncontrollable. It becomes a burden. It is too costly to maintain. Its an offense to other peoples inventiveness and intelligence. Different brands for different users ask for continuous differentiation. Linux is the perfect answer for that: not only open and free, but endlessly adaptable to new situations and for other people. It is the uniformity that always loses in the end. Adaptability will... well, adapt and change. And that' s what matters. I do see it happening around me. Being a lover of decentralised things and organisations, I adapted linux as a user years ago. In that time, it took me quite some time and effort to really use linux for day-to-day production (I started with suse, and now use Kubuntu - yes, feisty 5). But I saw the INCREDIBLE PROGRESS of the linuxes, made possible by the linux communities. I really needed dual boot, as a bunch of apps at that time were not good en= ough or good but too nerdy for me. But in just a few years, program after p= rogram reached the standards for really good quality. So, at this moment, m= any months pass without the need for me to switch to Windoze. In the period= of a few years, almost all programs I need are as good, and often better t= han windows equivalents. Although I do have a wishlist of course (Why cant = I make / play presentations with embedded video in Impress ?? I do need to = go back to powerpoint, and hence maintain dual boot on my laptop), I am ver= y trustfull that the very flexibility and adaptability of linux will surviv= e windows in the end.=20 Poor Bill, he probably already knows a monopoly cannot and will not survive= , and M$ just wants to prolongate the happy years of unethical high profits= as long as possible. The firm is just postponing the inevitable end of its= monopoly. In 10 years, we probably will have MS linux. (well, ehm, if it's= not there already. Bill is very keen in buying good stuff, always was, was= n't he.) Another very strong point is, that pandora' s box is open already. There ar= e many brands of linuxes in the field. There is a legion of volunteers work= ing on open source. There is linux in the servermarket. Large firms are be= ing founded on linux. This cannot be undone.=20 That really is Microsofts problem: if they join the movement, they have to = open themselves to the world. The alternative is buying linux. And they can= not buy linux. Even the richest firm on earth cannot buy exclusively what i= s common and general property, and in fact is not ownable, if you understan= d what I mean. Poor old wordperfect could be killed, but linux will allways= pop up somewhere in a new form. So the best strategy for microsoft is : 1) keeping the influx of money from windows open as long as possible 2) preparing for a share in some kind of linux as large as possible 3) look around for unexpected new chances. Weapens are: market dominance (included temporarily acceptance of piracy as= a way to dominance), legal fights all over the place to hold positions, bu= ying patents and standards to strengthen the own position, and the same to = take promising competition out of the market. For me, strong points in the above discussion are: - games. I do not play games, but others certainly do :) , and there really= should be improvement in this field. Personally, I do think that persuadin= g the large firms to include linux versions is a vain effort. Better invent= something new and better for linux only. - costs. In countries where M$ prices are unaffordable high, pirated versio= ns of windows are common. Nevertheless this is a good opportunity for gaini= ng market share for linux. But in the richer countries as well -- in the en= d spending fortunes for windoze and for apps isn' t that clever. Someone in= the finance department must discover that sooner or later. - politics: the US favors M$. Logically, other countries will favor other o= s' s. What about Red Flag Linux ? Would be fun to have dual boot Kubuntu / = Red Flag. - continuous and ever lasting improvement. So large a community will keep o= n improving things - for free, for fun, for money. Important things, but s= mall nice things as well, and everything in between. - greed. Bill Gates richness envies lots of people. Although linux is free,= in using linux , developing apps, implementing and what not, a lot of mon= ey can be earned. Against the inventiveness of " the rest of the world" M$ = will lose its monopoly in the end. As Henry Ford did. So what I really see before me is a PC-world emerging from a narrow- minded monopolistic " early-years" period, and widening into a blossoming future of variability, flexibility and adaptability. Watch the market share of M$ going down the next 10 years. :D And please enjoy the fun now. Really important changes in world history are very rare. We are the lucky guys and girls to be there in the right time. Don't wait for your old age to remember these heroic days. Enjoy them now. And, happily, it is very probable that new, important and very unexpected things are going to happen (what is google doing ?), and will add to the fun of our changing world. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mommedia.com (dcodex2013-deactivatedaccount) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 02:11:06 -0000 Message-Id: <20070326021107.27963.8276.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I am using linux/Ubuntu. I have also run the antivirus and nothing comes up. I am hoping that is exactly what you have describe. Thank you, AG --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: subiet (subiet-rastogi) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 07:19:51 -0000 Message-Id: <20070327071951.27963.4052.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> 100% reproducible in India, I recently wanted to purchase a laptop, but without a MS OS, 99% of the laptops available had one, and only very low end ones were available with Linux. So I contacted Dell, Lenovo and HP and told them that if I purchase a laptop from them, what are the procedures that I should follow for a refund of the cost of the MS OS if I don't wish to use it. (The EULA clearly states that my vendor is legally obliged to refund the amount to me, if i do not wish to use the bundled OS). The only reply I got was "Sorry, sir, but we are not offering this service". When I told them that they are legally bound to do it, they told me they are not aware of it. Dell was audacious enough to tell me that they are not running any such promotion, and I was like what the hell damn it, i am not asking for a discount or something it is my legal right. Maybe I will settle with something like N100 (a35), one of the very few laptops with dual core processors and without a bundled MS OS. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?q?Asbj=C3=B8rn_Ulsberg_=28asbjorn-ulsberg=29?= Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 11:23:16 -0000 Message-Id: <20070327112316.14116.87913.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I can confirm that this bug is prevalent in Norway as well. My status: Working on a bug fix. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mommedia.com (dcodex2013-deactivatedaccount) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 04:23:30 -0000 Message-Id: <20070329042330.1085.6774.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Dear Conrad Knauer, This is regarding your reply to my previous comments and to proof to you, that this is not a BUG! =E2=80=9CHow is it a choice when people can't easily buy a prebuilt system locally without an OS or with a free OS preinstalled? ("Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-installed.")=E2=80=9D I can built you all PCs you need without OS; and better yet with UBUNTU or any LINUX Distros, where do you want them, how many do you want ship! You see, this is not a bug. a bug is something that destroys your OS and MS does not do that, as of recent it has become lame, but it does not destroy a PCs OS. And do not get me wrong, I like linux over MS... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 09:45:37 -0000 Message-Id: <20070329094537.1085.44045.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> mommedia.com: The problem with your 'proof' is the "build" and "ship" part. Its easy enough for us, who are deeply aware of the problem, to go to an online retailer and order a custom Ubuntu computer. It is not easy however for the 'average computer user' to walk into a store and be offered a choice of operating systems. At best they might see a Mac with OS X next to a PC with Windows Vista, but neither of those are software libre. Usually however they will just see Windows computers and buy something 'off the shelf'. Even the major online retailers (e.g. Dell) which offer customizable computers online, don't make it easy at all to get anything except Windows preinstalled (hopefully this will change soon). As per the 'its not a bug' assertion, I will only agree with you to the extent that bugs are accidental things; the Windows stranglehold on preinstalled desktop operating systems is much more like malware. The lack of preinstalled Linux is only one symptom of the larger bug description: "Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally." as I illustrated by mentioning the lack of preinstalled Firefox, OpenOffice.org, etc. earlier. Any complaints you have about hardware not functioning well in Linux are also a symptom of this greater bug, e.g. non-redistributable firmware supplied with Windows drivers. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Scott (shatheruk) Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 08:20:53 -0000 Message-Id: <20070405082054.844.58580.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I have a partial fix...don't visit your local PC store, build your own PC f= rom parts and install ubuntu yourself, and do the same for non-technical fr= iends and family. Linux dominance is inevitable. :-) I take it this bug was logged on the 1st of april ? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: jawahar (ijawahar) Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 05:34:33 -0000 Message-Id: <20070406053433.10514.12238.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Ubuntu can improve the usability when compared to MS using the following trick. Assume I wanted to know the CPU type of my laptop. It would take 3 mouse clicks in MS. It would take 4 mouse clicks in Ubuntu. Hence I request Ubuntu to focus on reducing the number of mouse clicks required for every feature. ijawahar@gmail.com --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: EricDHH (ericdhh) Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 14:19:14 -0000 Message-Id: <20070407141914.11449.45733.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Lets have a view to the future, millions of computers need much more power in graphics and cpu to drive only the MS Vista. So the MS bug cause us million of tons more CO2 for faster Earth demolition. Offering smaller operating systems like xubuntu or fluxbuntu on energysaving hardware will save electric power to protect the planet from the MS overkill. Eric --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: suntin (gerard-payne) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 09:16:55 -0000 Message-Id: <20070409091655.11449.40930.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I had exactly this problem with a new DELL that I ordered, only the bug seems to be getting worse. The purchase options gave a choice of 4 versions of something called "Windo= ws Vista", I had been unfortunate enough to have been exposed to this befor= e when it was in BETA and despite searching for and option that said "I do = not want to buy a new PC and have it run slower than my old PC" but alas I = could find none. Due to a policy implemented by my IT mis-manager I had no other supply sour= ce so I reluctantly resigned myself to this. However I FOUND A WORK AROUND the machine arrived, some 20 days after it was ordered, I was impressed tha= t their business service delivery reflects the speed at which you can expec= t the new OS to run. But imagine the horror when I switched the machine on to be greeted by the = sound of money being flushed down the toilet. But fear not, there is actually a downloadable repair disk that will get machines infected with Vista to work reliably, at a reasonable speed, with no DRM or privacy infringements AND it negates any concerns about that awful EULA. You can download the "Vista is a toilet" repair disk here: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Eddie M. (eddiemartinez) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 14:16:27 -0000 Message-Id: <2791b3a20704090716i65809bb2p51b1c06799887f7@mail.gmail.com> that's the best patch I've seen for the bug to date. Good work. On 4/9/07, suntin wrote: > I had exactly this problem with a new DELL that I ordered, only the bug > seems to be getting worse. > > The purchase options gave a choice of 4 versions of something called "Win= dows Vista", I had been unfortunate enough to have been exposed to this bef= ore when it was in BETA and despite searching for and option that said "I d= o not want to buy a new PC and have it run slower than my old PC" but alas = I could find none. > Due to a policy implemented by my IT mis-manager I had no other supply so= urce so I reluctantly resigned myself to this. > > However I FOUND A WORK AROUND > > the machine arrived, some 20 days after it was ordered, I was impressed t= hat their business service delivery reflects the speed at which you can exp= ect the new OS to run. > But imagine the horror when I switched the machine on to be greeted by th= e sound of money being flushed down the toilet. > > But fear not, there is actually a downloadable repair disk that will get > machines infected with Vista to work reliably, at a reasonable speed, > with no DRM or privacy infringements AND it negates any concerns about > that awful EULA. > > You can download the "Vista is a toilet" repair disk here: > http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a member of Mozilla > Bugs, which is a bug contact for firefox in ubuntu. > > -- > Ubuntu-mozillateam-bugs mailing list > Ubuntu-mozillateam-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listi= nfo/ubuntu-mozillateam-bugs > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Kristpoher Craw (kcraw) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 02:27:19 -0000 Message-Id: <20070410022719.18187.18476.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I completely agree with the idea of games being a major bar to mainstream Linux. However, I've often wondered, how OpenGL compares to directX10. There exists a chicken and egg scenario for Linux games, but if OpenGL, in addition to being cross-platform, actually allowed developers to take games further than directX, they would have zero reason for not using openGL, and the scenario would be sidestepped. I believe for developers, the reliance on directX is the biggest reason to not release Linux versions. Certainly if Firefox can create both Windows and Linux binaries, so can major game studios. So, why not put more focus on OpenGL? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: suntin (gerard-payne) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 03:45:00 -0000 Message-Id: <20070410034500.17400.91387.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I second that. But would it be possible to create "openX" or similar, essentially as a tra= nslation library for DirectX->OpenGL -I have absolutely no idea but the only thing keeping Windows on my home sy= stem is my addiction to I have heard rumours of people running under WINE but so far I've only been= able to get the software to go to the login screen, it can't render the mo= dels for the characters at that screen though I suspect this is because I'v= e not spent enough time with it. I know the company making the game went crazy giving support for Vista, how= ever even under Win 2k parts of the game use a huge amount of systems resou= rces. I personally would rather have seen them say "we aren't supporting Vista be= cause its overhead means you can't realistically play" as for DX10... are there any released games using it yet or are they all DX9 still? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 06:12:57 -0000 Message-Id: <20070410061258.17400.76623.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> > would it be possible to create "openX" or similar, > essentially as a translation library for DirectX->OpenGL As per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Direct3D_and_OpenGL "Several partially functional ports of the Direct3D API have been made by Wine, a project to port common Windows APIs to Linux, but this work is difficult due to the dependency of DirectX as a whole on many other components of Windows." IOW, Wine is your best (software libre) option at the moment. > the only thing keeping Windows on my home system is my addiction to Do a search on http://appdb.winehq.org/ to see to what extent people have gotten that game you want to run working. You might also want to consider virtualizing a version of Windows just for gameplay if it turns out that it doesn't run great yet... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: franganghi (joered) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:39:11 -0000 Message-Id: <20070410073911.17400.9839.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Yes, i have a dream: i dream of a world where every king of game is both a game and a live linux distro so that you can put the cd in your reader, reboot and play the game virtually without the need for an OS. I dream of a world where any game is sold with a .deb an a .rpm installation file included for linux systems. Is it just a dream? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alex Lowe (lengau) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:11:48 -0000 Message-Id: <20070410121148.18096.12064.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> @Kristopher: From what I've seen, OpenGL is both more powerful and faster than DirectX (= in fact, DirectX is still basically a copy of the OpenGL libraries). In add= ition, any developers who compile their games for both Mac and Windows (pro= vided they do that by actually making just one core and making it mainly pl= atform-agnostic) should have no trouble porting their games to *nix/X11. Th= ese game studios are scared that they'll lose money on their Linux ports, b= ecause (a) Linux ports in the past [mostly before 2002] have lost money [pa= rtially because they seldom ported it well] and (b) they don't see Linux's = marketshare [mostly because it's pretty much impossible to track, so there = are probably way more Linux users than people think]. That said, however, Firefox is a very different beast from most games. Still, your point is taken and true, because some high-end games (Quake 4, for example) are available for Linux, so others should be, too. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Wayne Schuller (k-wayne) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 21:42:53 -0000 Message-Id: <20070412214253.19484.63046.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> This has not been a bug in my household since 1999. We have several pc's and cannot reproduce this bug at all. Please close. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alex Lowe (lengau) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 02:23:53 -0000 Message-Id: <20070413022353.23998.21230.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> @Wayne (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/338) I disagree. = It depends on multiple things. The bug does not show up on certain hardware. For example, I cannot reprodu= ce this bug on PowerPC or 68k desktops/laptops at all. However, the bug is = extremely common on prebuilt x86 computers. Although it is reproducible, th= e bug does not seem ver prevalent on x86 hardware that is assembled by the = user (my desktop, for example). On smartphones and other smaller devices, t= he bug sometimes (but not always) manifests itself. I have a workaround as well as a patch for the problem. The workaround should be quite easy to implement, but the patch will be difficult and take a long time. Workaround: Buy computers solely from vendors which sell computers with Free Operating systems preinstalled. These include those on the previously mentioned LXer page and possibly in future, Dell (on certain models). Strictly speaking, in order to workaround this particular bug (Microsoft's majority market share) rather than the general class of similar bugs (Proprietary software having a majority market share), Apple computers are also decent implementations of this workaround. This is not, however, a patch. It is merely a workaround, because this bug will not manifest itself in our computers (and possibly the computers of those around us). Patch: This patch is, as far as I can tell, one of only two ways to do this (the other way is for Microsoft to go out of business). This patch will involve years of work from the full community, and preferably money to spend on advertising campains. We will need to educate users about software freedom. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: asdfagsdfgqertwert (fsfasdgsdtertert45-deactivatedaccount) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 21:53:08 -0000 Message-Id: <20070420215308.8230.13477.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> That's the way to fix this. Most users don't even know what is free software. Most people think a computer comes with a monitor, a keyboard, and windows! We must educate users. A good start is http://www.getgnulinux.org, which is written in such an easy language "that any windows users would be able to understand" :P I totally agree to the main point "Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry". While people thank MS for what they have done with personal computers, I believe they have simply limited the natural evolution of technology, by creating abusive technological dependencies, by filing ridiculous software patents, by manipulating public standards, and by misinforming policy makers. In the future, this kind of practices will be illegal. Today, people still think it is OK, the same way they thought slavery was OK back in the 1800s. Cheers, Julian --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mchan (michaelchan-telus) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:33:49 -0000 Message-Id: <20070422173349.8230.87867.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> It is sad most of us thinking that this is a bug, it is only a marketing me= thod that MS flex its muscle, the way that we can beat MS is to make Ubuntu= OS simple with user friendly and best of all put the onus onto the users t= o maintain its effeciency by allow them to do update with clear instruction. Once these support available, this will aloow vendors offer this simple OS = attached to their products to compete against their competition. Demands dictate supply. MC --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mchan (michaelchan-telus) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 21:04:31 -0000 Message-Id: <20070422210431.732.91340.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Allen Graham=20 To: mchan=20 Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 11:34 AM Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share Hi "M C Chan " You are correct !!!! At this point few Ubuntu members, paid and unpaid, se= em willing to persue this simple course. To add to this Microsoft and other companies vigorously enforce patents tha= t are questionable which is the stumbling block that inhibits proper develo= pment.=20 Allen My response to Allen: _______________________ *** __________________________________ Allen, To fix this Ubuntu must have a clear target and it must be a acheiveable on= e. =20 What strategy that Ubuntu and its developers have in terms of capture a fra= ction of market shares? (2-3% Macs while 92-97% MS OS), I might be able to help in this area becaus= e of my marketing training and know how. =20 I believe if Ubuntu target 10% of OS users and focus on revive old PCs and = deliver high performance from the revived PCs and personal devices, it does= not take rocket scientist to figure out if the targeted objective achievab= le or not. This in turn will turn vendor's heads to offer the Ubuntu as alternative on= the new hardware. =20 In making this statement, beside public relations and marketing strategy, I= personally see Ubuntu need to polish some applications installation within= its packages such like: (Missing and need) SIP communications (Java SIP phones /SJLabs soft phones)= :-=20 This softphone will play a major communication role in the near future to s= hape the cell phone industry and its service providers, by offer this as pa= rt of the package, Ubuntu is also in competition with MSN/IM and AOL/IM =20 (Missing and need) PCMCIA card driver (Wi-Fi PCMCIA support third party har= dware / Linksys etc):- With every MS OS devices are wi-fi built-in, Ubuntu must have the ability t= o convince consumers to change and adapt without fear of changes, wi-fi ena= ble will be a major obstacle for ubuntu to capture the market shares withou= t auto run to install wi-fi driver of third devices. =20 Media player (VLC media player / real player):- Almost 90% of to-day and future of PC users are using Internet for entertai= nment purpose, Ubuntu OS need to make consumers feel at ease in using Ubunt= u as their choice of operating system beside MS, entertainment control cent= er is also a major influence to attract or capture market share =20 Document management (PDF creator / PDF995):- I know that ubuntu already came with PDF viewer but how to offer a PDF crea= tor using PDF995 offering will be another issue. This is a straight performance and easy to use issue beside cost =20 e-mail and anti-spam and personal firewall:- This is a straight forward security issue, and I believe to-day all related= education been established =20 =20 There are 4 basic usage when people using a PC: e-mail, on-line browsing, word processing, reading or creating presentation= through various third party software. =20 As long as tools are available for users to meet these four basic demand, t= hen all extra applications are just add-on, this will put onus on users to = manage and bring the best out from developers because this in term turned U= buntu into an virtual arena for third party software providers to compete t= o meet demands of consumers at large. =20 This is just my view of what Ubuntu can do to be a better product and captu= re a bigger market share, and it does not mean that Ubuntu is not a good pr= oduct as it is. =20 regards, MC --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mommedia.com (dcodex2013-deactivatedaccount) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:27:32 -0000 Message-Id: <20070423222732.4876.13567.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Wow! the speed and the look of the new Ubuntu 7.04 is nice. But there is something wrong with the Wireless Network Adapter Drivers, it does not authenticate the connection. I get an error about Atheros being/using an incomparable driver. However, after long hours of configuration and figuring out the right Wirel= ess Card=3Dcomparable chipset on wireless device, it's not longer an issue = with Ubuntu 6.06. So therefor, why would I want to deal with that issue al= l over again with Ubuntu 7.04? =20 The big question is; wasn't the new version suppose to fix the wireless car= d drivers comparability issues and make easy for wireless configuration/det= ection? I am confused! My personal opinion is that this is the biggest set back with Ubuntu, EUs with laptops and their other devices are not going to be bother with drivers incomparability. This will result in going back to the early days of MSW; when we/EUs spent hours searching and figuring out drivers from the Internet for hardware. Why would anybody want to choose to go back, instead of forward? Learn from MSW Vista, is not moving off the shelves as Daddy had conjectured, because of the outrageous price tag and its applications/drivers incomparability. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Operatester (operatester) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 07:42:33 -0000 Message-Id: <20070426074233.15044.90503.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Comment --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: minty-morky-mindy (minty-morky-mindy) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 10:48:19 -0000 Message-Id: <20070426104820.20532.9160.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Funny first bug post ! In 10 years M$ developers will say the same thing about Ubuntu ! ;) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: suntin (gerard-payne) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:43:50 -0000 Message-Id: <20070427104350.15141.71399.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> @ Conrad Knauer I know about the WINE port but what I was thinking was literally "openX" The calls direct x developers use to the engine are widely documented. If you replicated function names and even objects but wrote the code from s= cratch to do much the same thing using openGL libraries I doubt there would= be a case for copyright. You wouldn't be taking any code from M$ you would be creating a compatible = piece of software. It would be huge though, device drivers, openGL in fact it would probably b= e more of a chore than the original DX with all the work to get those thing= s functioning. But it works on a different level, WINE allows you to run DX software for W= indows, I'm talking about an open source piece of software for the develope= rs. Kind of "All your game code works in the same way as windows, you just comp= ile it with different libraries for opengl/linux." Like I say, only the vaguest idea about this kind of development but I think the key is persuading game developers they don't need to write a game twice, just compile twice. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?q?Emir_Beganovi=C4=87_=28emxba=29?= Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 13:43:05 -0000 Message-Id: <20070502134259.17842.55720.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Dell's decision to sell hardware with Ubuntu Feisty Fawn preinstalled will surely make Microsoft's market share lower and promote Ubuntu more than ever. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 23:25:40 -0000 Message-Id: <20070502232540.21577.76388.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> http://i.dell.com/images/us/segments/dhs/ubuntu_banner_728x400.jpg Just beautiful :) I note however that the page on which the image appears: http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu?c=3Dus&cs=3D19&l=3D= en&=3D has an error on it: "Dell recommends Windows Vista=E2=84=A2 Home Premium." An article on NewsForge described the phrase "[OEM] recommends Windows [ver= sion]" as the "Mark of the Microsoft Beast" http://trends.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=3D06/07/25/2018237 and mentions how its part of a MS-OEM "marketing agreement" (IOW, MS pays t= hem to say that) and specifically mentions Dell, Lenovo, HP and Acer. The next indicator of progress towards resolving Bug #1 will be to watch for the "Mark" to drop off the websites of various OEMs... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 10:46:58 -0000 Message-Id: <20070505104658.30600.90493.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> A small update to my previous comment: though it is still on the pages for computers with Windows, I note that "Dell recommends Windows Vista=E2= =84=A2 Home Premium." has been stricken from the 'Coming Soon' page (which I also note redirects from http://www.dell.com/ubuntu :) Also of note regarding the Dell systems, they WILL be cheaper than equivalent Windows systems (as stated by a Dell spokesman; see http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/314124_dellfolo03.html) Buy Ubuntu systems and save the Microsoft tax! ;) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jesus Gamio (jgamio) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 08:18:55 -0000 Message-Id: <20070511081856.4554.69253.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Here in Venezuela the last week in the mailing list of Ubuntu Venezuela Team https://launchpad.net/~nejode talked about his first Ubuntu Customization to Spanish language by default without using Internet get Spanish packages. This idea was welcome he's work was just the start and It was converted in a project https://launchpad.net/venezuelaiso Why ? Very simple: ( Just what I thing ) 1) If you can read the first screen You can test Ubuntu. For example the last week I left my Cd in the computer my wife turn on the computer She saw English next She turn off the computer She called me Jesus the computer isn't working.( My wife use Xubuntu but she doesn't know nothing about installers She cant read English to know what is that? ) Microsoft has Spanish Installer by default we need one no like a F2 option we need by default. ( I differ to other people we need all the possibilities in languages options) 2) Remember here no everybody has Internet ( It=C5=9B difficult to the new user install without Internet ) Windows doesn't need connect to Internet to start to apparently work in ours language . We need us languages packages by default. If a user can install Ubuntu we have more probability to get a new user. Another Idea Here the majorities of the people at home use shippers machines by the cost no HP no Dell no others ( I thing this apply for many countries ). In fact HP sales computers with free D.O.S why ? ? why not use Ubuntu . The people talk about Dell but haven't see more that 20 Dell computers in my live. Maybe we can start to talk with the computers retails to ship Ubuntu CD with the machine maybe with no default install but the people can wondering what is it ? put the Cd in their languages and say Woh . ( I think maybe can work here because the Government is migrating to Gnu/Linux) Finally I think in Latinoamerica we can't talk about user friendly Ubuntu yet Why ? if the people can understand English Goodbye user friendly no everybody understand English no everybody has Internet at home. by the way excuse my English is not good enough yet. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 11:44:46 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0705110444r527cd0c2tb85606a7e949b7df@mail.gmail.com> Buenas Dias ! y hola Jesus ! You have raised some excellent ideas, (muy poco Espanol) It would be very easy to start a business such as this one: http://system76.com/index.php/cPath/1 And with "Vista" coming from Microsoft it will be very difficult for students to buy new computers, it is very expensive, with big demands on the hardware ! Downloading Ubuntu is very easy, but you need a fast Internet connection. Get one copy and make many copies from it. Mexico has an even bigger problem than your country, now the economy in Mexico is growing faster than the U.S. of A. and even my country, Canada ! Yet, there are NO servers to support Ubuntu in Mexico, but there are many colleges. In the winter I live in Mexico and see these rapid changes. The first problem is that English is the language of the Internet. Changes to computer use must start within the Latin-American countries. In the future I will live permanently in Mexico and I plan to work on that problem !! Thanks for your input, Allen Bobcaygeon, Ontario, Canada On 5/11/07, macuto wrote: > > Here in Venezuela the last week in the mailing list of Ubuntu Venezuela > Team https://launchpad.net/~nejode talked about his first Ubuntu > Customization to Spanish language by default without using Internet get > Spanish packages. > > This idea was welcome he's work was just the start and It was converted > in a project https://launchpad.net/venezuelaiso > > Why ? Very simple: ( Just what I thing ) > > 1) If you can read the first screen You can test Ubuntu. For example the > last week I left my Cd in the computer my wife turn on the computer She > saw English next She turn off the computer She called me Jesus the > computer isn't working.( My wife use Xubuntu but she doesn't know > nothing about installers She cant read English to know what is that? ) > Microsoft has Spanish Installer by default we need one no like a F2 > option we need by default. ( I differ to other people we need all the > possibilities in languages options) > > 2) Remember here no everybody has Internet ( It=C5=9B difficult to the n= ew > user install without Internet ) Windows doesn't need connect to Internet > to start to apparently work in ours language . We need us languages > packages by default. If a user can install Ubuntu we have more > probability to get a new user. > > Another Idea > > Here the majorities of the people at home use shippers machines by the > cost no HP no Dell no others ( I thing this apply for many countries ). > In fact HP sales computers with free D.O.S why ? ? why not use > Ubuntu . The people talk about Dell but haven't see more that 20 Dell > computers in my live. Maybe we can start to talk with the computers > retails to ship Ubuntu CD with the machine maybe with no default install > but the people can wondering what is it ? put the Cd in their languages > and say Woh . ( I think maybe can work here because the Government is > migrating to Gnu/Linux) > > Finally > > I think in Latinoamerica we can't talk about user friendly Ubuntu yet > Why ? if the people can understand English Goodbye user friendly no > everybody understand English no everybody has Internet at home. > > > by the way excuse my English is not good enough yet. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --=20 > Time and weather ? click here : http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=3D148 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: dsula (dsuvt) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 11:48:19 -0000 Message-Id: <20070511114820.23034.24459.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> The difference between windows and linux is, that windows simply works, whereas for linux you need a degree in software enginnering to get it to run right. I'm using Linux for 10 years now, and things haven't improved much. I installed the kubuntu 7.04 and guess what, blank screen on boot. Easy fix? Sure you boot in console mode, edit a few config files, download a few drivers and packages, compile everything, read a few forums and eventually you get it to work. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 12:07:33 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0705110507i2f8f13f3g9181c2dc0715e612@mail.gmail.com> Hi, to me Linux is so superior to Microsoft Windows or Mac that I put up with the problems, BUT , you're right. And I keep a MS Windows laptop handy. Allen On 5/11/07, dsula wrote: > > The difference between windows and linux is, that windows simply works, > whereas for linux you need a degree in software enginnering to get it to > run right. I'm using Linux for 10 years now, and things haven't improved > much. I installed the kubuntu 7.04 and guess what, blank screen on boot. > Easy fix? Sure you boot in console mode, edit a few config files, > download a few drivers and packages, compile everything, read a few > forums and eventually you get it to work. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --=20 > Time and weather ? click here : http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=3D148 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Porfirio (porfirio-ribeiro) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 15:10:06 -0000 Message-Id: <20070511151006.4465.90285.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Hi i am from Portugal! I use Windows daily, and you want to know why i dont use Linux ( i say linu= x not Ubuntu because this bug applyes to the Linux community not only Ubunt= u ) ? Well first because my modem is very hard to get it to work ( the so know Sp= eedTouch 330 gray, worse my isp uses PPPoE/Bridging ), you have to do some = strange stuff to get it working. But then i have a WinTV usb FM card, and its hard as hell to get it to work= with Radio and TV ( i haven't been able to do it yet ) In windows i just have to install the drivers and reboot But the worse problem i face is: I own a small shop and i have a Software for Point of Sale, the program is = 10 years old ( although my pc is 3 years old... ) , its made in Visual Basi= c ( 5 i suppose... ), it uses a USB drive as a protection key ( this compan= y is harder than M$ lol ), the program is buggy and it costed as much as 50= 0=E2=82=AC ( it have to be signed by the government or something ) its made= by Portuguese company. So what have i thinked, lets try to run it over Wine, but it doesn't shown up i just see VB runtime errors etc, and i cant submit a bug cause no one can get the program for free or something But ok i could get it to work on windows VMWare, but this is damn important stuff and i get scared to loose my precious Data On my daily work i only use, apart from the POS soft, open source programs = like Gimp, Inkscape, scribus, Firefox, Thunderbird, Gaim ( theres no Kopete= for windows :( ) etc... So switching to Linux would be easy! About Gaming... I dont game that mutch i am more a software developer ( the IDE's i use are cross plataform too ), but still theres nice cross plataform games that i run on my windows like xmoto, action cube, alienarena etc... Also i was almost forget to mention that my GFX card is a Radeon 9200, wish dont have more suport for proprietary drivers, although the open source one works ok ( i wish i could get better resolution... ) I just got today my Kubuntu shipit cd ( i also got Ubuntu one some days ago ) and i put some stickers of Ubuntu that came in package on my pc and shop So my road to Linux is going slowly, and i only have this pc here on my Sho= p ( its a small Shop and i have free time )=20 Also i wish that KDE was more suported by Ubuntu, When Ubuntu 7.04 went off= , big annoucements ad site changes were made, for kubuntu just posted a ann= oucement, also well Kubuntu is a KDE operative system but why it cant come = with GTK app's Wheres Firefox, Thunderbird installed by default? Ubuntu have some nice programs to configure system, put 3D desktop etc, why= cant they be shiped with Kubuntu too? So my shoice is, install ubuntu and do sudo apt-get install kde-core About buying a pc on shop with ubuntu: It wont happen here, not only ppl don't want Linux as sellers dont want to = sell Once i got a problem on my shop program and i needed to get assistense from= teh sellers, they didn't liked to see that i had Linux installed( not ubun= tu, a Portuguese distro called CaixaMagica ) This bug is far from being closed :( --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: David A. Benitez (dbenitez) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 17:07:47 -0000 Message-Id: <20070511170747.4554.2767.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> It has probably been said before, but how about this? Take some money and get two ads in two newspapers in the US, Canada, Africa, Europe, South America, etc. I know in the USA, the two major newspapers are "The New York Times" and "The Wall Street Journal". I figure if some company bigwig can get their eyes to see this new Ubuntu operating system that's more secure and reliable than Microsoft's Vista, I'm sure it will spread through word of mouth. Perhaps they can ask their IT departments to check out what it is, and all that. I'm sure you've heard of the Firefox ad campaign, how about you do somethin= g like that? Info below: Oh well, that's my quarter-of-a-cent opinion there. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: David Vasta (david-vasta) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 17:13:37 -0000 Message-Id: <20070511171320.17842.95712.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> "Hi, to me Linux is so superior to Microsoft Windows or Mac that I put up with the problems," The battle rages on the figure out this problem. While I make it known I am a Mac user I am also a big fan of Linux and evangelis on Ubuntu to anyone who will listen. We all can agree that Windows is largely accepted and largely hated all at the same time. For the most part it is disliked for all the right reasons. I can and will help anyone out who wants to transition from Windows to some other platform. I take the argument that Linux us better than MacOSX. I find that odd. I think Linux as far as usability has exceeded Windows and can take it on in most common situations. I would like however for Linux to take a look at the biggest issue and that is ease of use. MacOSX has embodied ease of use and had made the OS very simple. It also doe snot take a MIT grad to help you get things working and the integration between apps is remarkable. I would push anyone who is struggling with this question about how to make Linux the best it can be would to take a look at MacOSX and start emulating it's strong points. Ease of Use and Integration between apps. We need to make this ever so simple and ever so strong all at the same time. Let's start talking how we make Linux the OS better and stop talking about how much we hate Windows. Making Linux better will only force Microsoft hand. It will create movement towards Linux and away from Windows. It's all about fostering Linux and letting Microsoft fall to the way side. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Paul Flint (flint) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 18:14:55 -0000 Message-Id: Dear David, The most persuasive form of advertisement is fairly obvious, and is called = word-of-mouth, or sometimes the "Golden Chain". Often this form of=20 advertisement starts in a ground swell, or at a grass roots level. Please consider the following example of the power (and economy:^) of this = form of advertisement: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DnWIrxuF5NSo I would value your thoughts on this. Kindest Regards, Paul On Fri, 11 May 2007, David A. Benitez wrote: > Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 17:07:47 -0000 > From: David A. Benitez > Reply-To: Bug 1 <1@bugs.launchpad.net> > To: flint@flint.com > Subject: [Bug 1] Ads in Major Newspapers >=20 > It has probably been said before, but how about this? > > Take some money and get two ads in two newspapers in the US, Canada, > Africa, Europe, South America, etc. > > I know in the USA, the two major newspapers are "The New York Times" and > "The Wall Street Journal". > > I figure if some company bigwig can get their eyes to see this new > Ubuntu operating system that's more secure and reliable than Microsoft's > Vista, I'm sure it will spread through word of mouth. Perhaps they can > ask their IT departments to check out what it is, and all that. > > I'm sure you've heard of the Firefox ad campaign, how about you do someth= ing like that? Info below: > > > Oh well, that's my quarter-of-a-cent opinion there. > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > /************************************ Paul Flint 17 Averill Street Barre, VT 05641 http://www.flint.com/home skype: flintinfotech Work: (202) 537-0480 Fax: (703) 852-7089 Free advice .~. is worth /V\ exactly what /( )\ you pay for it. ^^-^^ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 10:20:49 -0000 Message-Id: <20070512102049.4465.80045.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> David A. Benitez wrote: "It has probably been said before, but how about this? Take some money and get two ads in two newspapers [...] I'm sure you've heard of the Firefox ad campaign, how about you do something like that?" Mark Shuttleworth replied to a very similar qestion on April 25th: "all in good time" :) Quoting from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekfeisty/askmark2 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: DarkMageZ (darkmagez) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 10:09:28 -0000 Message-Id: <20070513100928.23034.37669.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> part of the problem is a lack of an active directory replacement. sure it's possible to hack parts of what active directory does to happen, but without a proper replacement with all the important features... ubuntu stands no chance in big organizations on the desktops. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: David Vasta (david-vasta) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 15:39:20 -0000 Message-Id: <20070514153920.4554.29588.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> @ DarkMageZ I would agree with you 100%. I think if we look at my history of Blog post and comments buisness adoption is the key to global adoption. The Active Directory is a wonderful tool. I present that even with it's pretty GUI and integration is still falls short of what Novell offers, but there is the rub, and an argument for another day as well. Novell Netware is the only large scale contender to AD. In fact I think in some cases(NOVELL) has a better portfolio. Novell has made a huge effort to move all it's apps and tools to SuSE SLES Linux, and in doing that has created what we all have been asking for. A centralized Linux tool that manages the entire networks from servers to desktops. Problem is Novell is having a hard time selling it. I have used it and it's pretty easy to use and pretty easy to set up, then you take the mail solution they have with Evolution and you really have a pretty sound solution. I would like to see Ubuntu work on the same things but the more time I spend here working and reading about the direction of Ubuntu they seem to focused on desktops and not on large scale implementations and if we all do our history that is what almost killed Apple? Linux needs to go big time in corporations. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Rudd-O (rudd-o) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 12:38:33 -0000 Message-Id: <20070515123833.17842.83399.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I can confirm the pervasiveness of this bug in Ecuador. No computer store sells computers with Linux preloaded -- almost everyone chooses to install unlicensed Microsoft Windows copies, which increases Windows market share. Computer manufacturers are under the delusion that Microsoft Windows is somehow easier to use than Ubuntu. Need fix! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mommedia.com (dcodex2013-deactivatedaccount) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 23:30:07 -0000 Message-Id: <20070515233007.13488.44237.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Hello everyone, does anybody know, how the latest news from MS; will affect the OpenSource = Community and the future of Ubuntu? =E2=80=9CBy making a pact with Novell, Microsoft also implied that anyone w= ho downloaded or bought Linux from another vendor was doing so illegally=E2=80= =9D Can that corrupt entity actually interfere with the future global vision of Ubuntu and OpenSource alternatives? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mommedia.com (dcodex2013-deactivatedaccount) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 23:37:21 -0000 Message-Id: <20070515233721.13488.6521.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Hola a todos, Ultimas en noticias del MS; =20 =C2=BFafectar=C3=A1 a la comunidad de OpenSource y al futuro de Ubuntu? =E2=80=9CHaciendo un pacto con Novell, Microsoft tambi=C3=A9n implic=C3=B3 = que cualquier persona que transfiri=C3=B3 o compr=C3=B3 linux de otro vende= dor hac=C3=ADa tan ilegal=E2=80=9D=20 =20 Mi pregunta=3D=C2=BFPuede esa entidad corrupta interferir realmente con la = visi=C3=B3n global futura de las alternativas que Ubuntu y OpenSource ofrec= en? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mommedia.com (dcodex2013-deactivatedaccount) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 23:40:14 -0000 Message-Id: <20070515234014.17842.25710.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Bonjour, fait quiconque connaissent, comment les derni=C3=A8res nouvelles de la mill= iseconde; affectera la Communaut=C3=A9 d'OpenSource et le futur d'Ubuntu ? =C2=AB En faisant un pacte avec Novell, Microsoft a =C3=A9galement impliqu= =C3=A9 que n'importe qui qui a t=C3=A9l=C3=A9charg=C3=A9 ou a achet=C3=A9 le Linux d'u= n autre fournisseur faisait tellement ill=C3=A9galement =C2=BB Cette entit=C3=A9 corrompue peut-elle r=C3=A9ellement interf=C3=A9rer la fu= ture vision globale des solutions de rechange d'Ubuntu et d'OpenSource ? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mommedia.com (dcodex2013-deactivatedaccount) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 23:41:05 -0000 Message-Id: <20070515234105.14584.8554.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Ol=C3=A1! todos, faz qualquer um sabem, como a not=C3=ADcia a mais atrasada do MS; afetar=C3= =A1 a comunidade de OpenSource e o futuro de Ubuntu? =E2=80=9CFazendo um pacto com Novell, Microsoft igualmente implicou que qua= lquer um que transferiu ou comprou o linux de um outro vendedor estava fazendo t=C3=A3o ilegal=E2=80=9D Pode essa entidade corrompida realmente interferir com a vis=C3=A3o global futura de alternativas de Ubuntu e de OpenSource? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mommedia.com (dcodex2013-deactivatedaccount) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 23:41:58 -0000 Message-Id: <20070515234158.17842.61666.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Hallo, tut jedes wissen, wie die sp=C3=A4testen Nachrichten von Mitgliedstaat; bee= influ=C3=9Ft die OpenSource Gemeinschaft und die Zukunft von Ubuntu? =E2=80=9E, indem die Herstellung eines Paktes mit Novell, Microsoft, andeut= ete auch h, da=C3=9F jedermann, das Linux von einem anderen Verk=C3=A4ufer heru= nterlud oder kaufte, tat so illegal=E2=80=9C Kann dieses verdorbene Wesen den zuk=C3=BCnftigen globalen Anblick Ubuntu u= nd OpenSource der Alternativen wirklich behindern? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 04:39:09 -0000 Message-Id: <20070516043909.13488.74017.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> mommedia.com: if you must translate your posts into multiple languages, please post them as a single post rather than as multiple ones. To answer your question though, its primarily FUD. It probably doesn't affect FOSS outside of the US and in the US its a bit tenuous; this has all the hallmarks of a 'protection racket'. Note that Microsoft *refused* to publicly state which patents were involved. See a post I made about the subject on http://limulus.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/microsofts-new-business-model- extortion/ for more details. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 13:12:17 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0705160612j68c7bbbbpd9300855ef98573b@mail.gmail.com> Hold it ! Right there ! we're going to be sued en masse. Microsoft has flatly stated that we Linux users violate 235 patents. OK ! Let's co-operate, and each one of us should send all of our source AND binary code, from every computer that we own to Microsoft, yes, let's 'fess up. Let Microsoft, that benevolent behemoth, tell each one of us , individually, which patent(s) that we infringe upon so that we can remove this offense code and get on with our lives. If Microsoft doesn't respond, then we should help out, AND send it again !!!!!!!!!!!! Most of us old timers know full well that Microsoft had to use Unix code in the '80's, we saw it, thought it was OK, but didn't think of it as "patent infringement". We saw Microsoft buy up companies (like Spinnaker who created 'Works') and use code that was taken from everywhere. Of course Microsoft now has to show ALL of it's proprietary code to prove theur case. Allen Graham, an 'oldtimer' from Bobcaygeon Ontario (prev: Toronto and Key West , yes that AG) On 5/16/07, Conrad Knauer wrote: > > > http://limulus.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/microsofts-new-business-model- > extortion/ for more details. > > --=20 > Time and weather ? click here : http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=3D148 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 13:15:02 -0000 Message-Id: <20070516131503.14491.74294.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Hold it ! Right there ! we're going to be sued en masse. Microsoft has = flatly stated that we Linux users violate 235 patents. =20 OK ! Let's co-operate, and each one of us should send all of our source AN= D binary code, from every computer that we own to Microsoft, yes, let's 'fe= ss up. Let Microsoft, that benevolent behemoth, tell each one of us , indi= vidually, which patent(s) that we infringe upon so that we can remove this = offense code and get on with our lives. If Microsoft doesn't respond, then we should help out, AND send it again !!= !!!!!!!!!! Most of us old timers know full well that Microsoft had to use Unix code in the '80's, we saw it, thought it was OK, but didn't think of it as "patent infringement". We saw Microsoft buy up companies (like Spinnaker who created 'Works') and use code that was taken from everywhere. Of course Microsoft now has to show ALL of it's proprietary code to prove theur case. Allen Graham, an 'oldtimer' from Bobcaygeon Ontario (prev: Toronto and Key West , yes that AG) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Ajit Hatti (ajit-hattti) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 10:16:26 -0000 Message-Id: <20070531101626.14356.95927.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> The bug is very significant and easily seen in India.=20 Melinda Gates foundation is ensuring that bug shouldn't get solved easily. = Under the name of charity, Micro$oft is sowing seeds to produce more and mo= re Micro$oft users and professionals in future. Micro$oft is doing Business= in disguise of Humanity, =20 But still handful enthusiasts are striving hard to solve the bug, My Status : Working on the bug fix. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 20:13:30 -0000 Message-Id: <20070531201330.19617.15560.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> rvv by polopolo --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Stephan van Ingen (stephanvaningen) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 15:51:06 -0000 Message-Id: <20070609155106.30172.67746.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Don=C2=B4t worry: M$ itself is dued by the world=C2=B4s biggest patent hold= er for the same reason: every victory M$ wins against Linux world is a presendent( Just letting you know that we have a bugfix (albeit in pre-alpha stage righ= t now) here in Poland. Here's the deal: quite a lot of users in Poland usually buys their boxen in computer shops, = where they are able to pick every single component to their liking; or they= have their machines assembled by a friend, so the problem of so-called "Wi= ndows-tax" is not that apparent. Unfortunately, for those users who prefer buying their machines in big depa= rtment stores, there was always only one way - the Windows way. Well, "was"= is the right word here, as for quite some time we are observing growing Li= nux availability on the laptop market - almost all major laptop distributor= s have Linux-based laptops in their stock nowadays; AND just a month ago or= so one large supermarket network (Carrefour) and one huge electronic marke= t network (MediaMarkt) both introduced Linux (Mandriva, but I can live with= that ;) ) based desktop computers. And they are actually advertising them, so that a John Doe has the possibil= ity to get informed that there is something called "Linux"... It's big, I can tell you that, as most of the people here simply don't know about Linux. And when they get to know - believe me, it's fantastic how many of them make the switch. So, just to sum-up, we're in pre-alpha with this patch here. Cheers and keep spreading the word ;) rysiek --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: waldschrat (unumsaxum) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 08:21:06 -0000 Message-Id: <20070619082106.23426.32810.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> In march 2007 there was a tiny step to bug fix in france. The national assembly of france (Assembl=C3=A9e nationale) decided to use ubuntu on all = of their 1154 workstations - to save money and to be able to configure each system to the users individual needs. They decided to use firefox 2.0 and openoffice.org2. Even though its a minor step compared to the number of private workstations in france, it is an improvement. waldschrat --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jonathan Marsaud (zic) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 08:37:52 -0000 Message-Id: <20070619083753.23426.4443.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> NdR : It's not Ubuntu for the national assembly of france, but it's Kubuntu. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Bitou (therealbitou) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 04:34:04 -0000 Message-Id: <20070620043404.20932.57762.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I found one company in France which sell desktop and laptop and let the ch= oice for the user. But you only choice between Fedora Core 6, Windows or nothing. No Ubuntu ye= t.=20 The website is also in English. It's for everyone. Contact me if you want to know the name of the company. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Andrew Jorgensen (ajorg) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:46:51 -0000 Message-Id: <20070622184651.29605.18353.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> This article on Groklaw may indicate a relevant shift in the market: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=3D2007062209235346 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tyler Jensen (tylerj-netbrick) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 01:29:52 -0000 Message-Id: <20070626012952.19813.12352.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I disagree with the premise of this bug. I've never bought a computer with a pre-installed OS. Systems without pre-installed software have been available since before 1987 when I bought my first x86 machine. Yeah, yeah, I know the Great and Powerful and Evil MS dominates the market and free software shoudl rule the day. But it doesn't. Not even close. Not even with all the magical strides touted here. Don't kid yourself. The market works. People "buy" what they want and they often prefer to "pay" for a product they want even when a product they don't want is free. Go figure. Stupid humans. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tscheesy (tscheesy) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 18:01:06 -0000 Message-Id: <20070627180106.16498.86085.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> As i understand dell and hp are with us now ?=20 HW related part of this bug seems to become healty. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Nick_Hill (nick-nickhill) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2007 14:24:13 -0000 Message-Id: <20070701142413.19914.18397.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> People don't usually buy computes to run Microsoft Windows on, or to run GNU/Linux on. They buy computers to do their word processing, spreadsheets, web browsing, email, ebay selling, playing DVDs, playing MP3s, accessing the media files they 'own' etc. So long as a user isn't addicted to specific windows-only applications, encouraging people to move to Linux is very easy. A big step is to demonstrate to people they don't need to use Microsoft Word or Outlook. It only takes clicking on the Openoffice icon and literally 30 seconds for someone to realise they don't need MS-Word. In fact, I have been helping out in a computer shop and moved everything to OpenOffice. On several occasions, customers have asked if it has 'word' or 'office' on it and on those occasions, when the customer clicked on the OOWriter icon, they discovered to their satisfaction that it had, in their mind, 'word'. In any case, Microsoft seem to be working on this bug very effectively. They have introduced WGA (Microsoft call this "Windows Genuine Advantage") which in the traditions of true doublespeak, disable unauthorised copies of Windows. Microsoft are cracking down on sellers distributing computers with unauthorised copies of Windows. And hopefully, they'll introduce WGA for other programs which benefit from Windows Update, such as Microsoft Office. As Microsoft snip away at the borders of the network which has built the value of the windows platform in order to raise revenue to warrant the current MS share price, we'll see increasing space on the desktop for genuine Free Software. Added to this, users migrating to MS-Office 2007/Vista will have a usability shock which doesn't exist with a migration to OpenOffice. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Joe Holloway (jholloway7) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 18:07:39 -0000 Message-Id: <20070702180739.1385.31272.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Just upgraded a PC for my 77-year old father to browse the web, e-mail, view pics of the grandkids, etc. I was faced with moving him from Win98->Vista. Seemed a bit like taking a dumptruck to the grocery store to me. Long story short, he's running Ubuntu and couldn't care less. I think the learning curve is actually shorter going from Win9x->Ubuntu than Win9x->Vista. I guess that's one less PC that can recreate this bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Amir E. Aharoni (amir-aharoni) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 16:31:20 -0000 Message-Id: <20070704163120.2781.48320.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Ubuntu is both a popular distribution and one that is relatively purist about Free Software. Despite that, i couldn't find an *easy* way on any Ubuntu-related website, or anywhere on the web, to test whether a computer will work with Ubuntu without the need to use restricted drivers and firmware *before* i buy the computer. Until now everything was an afterthought - for years i installed Linux after i bought the computer and all the time i ran into problems because there were no drivers at all or because there were no free drivers. Now i want to test that a computer will be completely usable with only Free Software without binary blobs and proprietary firmware - but i couldn't find any sane way to do it without being a hardware guru, kernel hacker and master lspci decryptor. I already looked at the gNewSense webpage ( http://wiki.gnewsense.org/Main/RecommendedHardware ) and FSF's Hardware compatibility page ( http://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/ ). Still too hard to decypher. I looked at a few "linux laptop compatibility" sites that i found on Google, but it didn't help - they are all a mess. I know that it is all a volunteer community effort, but i think that it is a problem. I asked about it on some forums and mailing lists several times. Some people say "buy a Dell/System76" - well, at least some Dells and System76's use NVidia drivers, which are either non-Free or technically crippled. Some say "Google is your friend" - but no, in this case it is not: It is damn hard to check every single device and be sure that it has a free driver. Some people say that i worry too much and that this matter is just not too important. I understand a few things about software, but i really don't claim to understand ALL of the technical implications of non-free drivers and firmware, so one could say that i listen to Richard Stallman's preaching about freedom too zealously; but i believe that this might be important to Ubuntu considering Mark Shuttleworth's announcement of the extra-free Gutsy Gibbon edition. Who will bother to try to install it, if it's too damn hard to find a properly free computer which can run it? I know that this sounds very pretentious and i am not even close to being a notable member of the Ubuntu community, but i think that this is a bit of a meta-bug in itself and that the famous "Bug #1" cannot be fixed before this issue is addressed somehow. Any ideas how can that be made easier? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 18:58:54 -0000 Message-Id: <468BEDEE.1090706@canonical.com> It's definitely important to be able to know if a device will work with free software drivers only. I think the radically-free Live CD would be one way to do it. Another might be if we build this information into the hardware device manager... perhaps just booting normal Ubuntu and running the restricted drivers manager gives useful info? Mark --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Amir E. Aharoni (amir-aharoni) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 21:15:11 -0000 Message-Id: <20070704211511.15520.91664.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Mark - thanks for the reply! Your suggestion may work, and i may try it, but even i am embarrassed by it; note - i want to know that the system is free *before* i buy it. Theoretically i can pop a live CD in the store, but it is embarrassing and time-consuming. Being able to prepare for this before going to the store would be better. What i would be happy to see is a website with a directory of laptops, such as the www.dpreview.com directory of digital cameras, where i can find a laptop according to its parts and EASILY filter out the non-free ones. It's really weird that in 2007 i couldn't find such a website, and i searched for a few days. Even simply making a section called "Ubuntu-recommended hardware" on the main ubuntu.com page would be nice. Currently the links to "Hardware program" and "Ubuntu Hardware Database" don't lead to any information which is useful to the end user. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 22:19:12 -0000 Message-Id: <468C1CE0.4030404@canonical.com> Amir E. Aharoni wrote: > What i would be happy to see is a website with a directory of laptops, > such as the www.dpreview.com directory of digital cameras, where i can > find a laptop according to its parts and EASILY filter out the non-free > ones. It's really weird that in 2007 i couldn't find such a website, and > i searched for a few days. > =20 That is because, right now, I don't think you could find such a laptop :-( Even a really good vendor like Intel still has the odd propietary blob (on the way out, but still there). Those are improving, but right now it's hard to see how one could recommend any laptop as being entirely free-software-enabled. Mark --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Amir E. Aharoni (amir-aharoni) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 10:24:05 -0000 Message-Id: <20070705102405.26289.82021.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I found two wishlist bugs that proposed something similar to what i am proposing: Bug #77311 and Bug #63192 . Both were marked as invalid. I guess that this time i'll give up and buy a restricted laptop, but i'd really like to be able to use the radically-free Gutsy without installing additional freedom-reduced drivers one day. Until there's an *easy* way to find radically free computers, there won't be much use for a radically-free Ubuntu :( --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Paul Flint (flint) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 11:06:51 -0000 Message-Id: Dear Mark, How about having a division of Canonical certify that certifies hardware=20 and supporting driver software as "Ubuntu Compliant"? This could be a=20 supportable enterprise. Fees paid by manufacturers to allow them to=20 display the "Certified Ubuntu" product logo on their equipment might pay=20 for the web site. BTW thanks for the excellent software and... Kindest Regards, Paul Flint /************************************ Paul Flint 17 Averill Street Barre, VT 05641 http://www.flint.com/home skype: flintinfotech Work: (202) 537-0480 Fax: (703) 852-7089 Free advice .~. is worth /V\ exactly what /( )\ you pay for it. ^^-^^ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Paul Flint (flint) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 13:13:22 -0000 Message-Id: On Thu, 5 Jul 2007, Paul Flint wrote: Note the removal of extra "certify" in first line of message... >=20 > Dear Mark, > > How about having a division of Canonical that certifies hardware > and supporting driver software as "Ubuntu Compliant"? This could be a > supportable enterprise. Fees paid by manufacturers to allow them to > display the "Certified Ubuntu" product logo on their equipment might pay > for the web site. > > BTW thanks for the excellent software and... > > Kindest Regards, > > Paul Flint > /************************************ Paul Flint 17 Averill Street Barre, VT 05641 http://www.flint.com/home skype: flintinfotech Work: (202) 537-0480 Fax: (703) 852-7089 Free advice .~. is worth /V\ exactly what /( )\ you pay for it. ^^-^^ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Amir E. Aharoni (amir-aharoni) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 10:59:07 -0000 Message-Id: <97f280ea0707060359g169b2e80s16f77dc710a1d087@mail.gmail.com> On 05/07/07, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > Even a really good vendor like Intel still has the odd propietary blob > (on the way out, but still there). Sorry to wander further off-topic, but this really intrigued me: What do you mean by "on the way out"? My primary concern now is the wireless drivers. Most laptops that i could find where i live have Intel a/b/g wireless cards, which Ubuntu considers restricted. When i popped a 7.04 live CD into a Toshiba laptop in a store, that's the only restricted driver it complained about. I can feel more content if i buy this one knowing that some day there'll be a true free driver. However, when i googled for "linux wireless driver blob" i couldn't find anything substantial. There were mostly stories on making one for OpenBSD and they also said that it will probably not work for Linux. Or did Intel announce that they are releasing the source? (Please excuse my cluelessness. I know that it's all hard work and i don't expect kernel hackers to produce a driver just for me; i'm just a curious monkey tring to follow the Free Software ethic.) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 11:10:12 -0000 Message-Id: <468E2314.70002@canonical.com> Amir E. Aharoni wrote: > On 05/07/07, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > =20 >> Even a really good vendor like Intel still has the odd propietary blob >> (on the way out, but still there). >> =20 > > Sorry to wander further off-topic, but this really intrigued me: > > What do you mean by "on the way out"? My primary concern now is the > wireless drivers. Most laptops that i could find where i live have > Intel a/b/g wireless cards, which Ubuntu considers restricted. When i > popped a 7.04 live CD into a Toshiba laptop in a store, that's the > only restricted driver it complained about. I can feel more content if > i buy this one knowing that some day there'll be a true free driver. > =20 Yes, Intel is working on a free driver (with closed firmware, but that's not unusual at this stage and is more acceptable IMO). --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 13:39:02 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0707060639u12d20421u41d9578fedb7b325@mail.gmail.com> Thanks OK Amir ! Lots of us are equally curious. With the latest forays into cross-licensing and other such ilk it would seem apparent that "proprietary drivers" will be ground into dust. There are many "free" operating systems, most will just "hack' the drivers, or come up with a workaround. The problem (good) is that Ubuntu plays by all of the rules so it requires the user (me, you etc) to employ other methods or simply sign a "E.U.L.A." that may be distasteful. Intel, Nvidia, Broadcom, S.I.S. and many more have created this problem for wireless drivers. I have two machines with Broadcom, wireless, chips, what a nuisance ! When building my working system I shopped for parts that have free drivers. Atheros on wireless etc. There may be 40 million Linux users and growing, most of us are technically minded and help many others make decisions on buying. So, we have an influence. Note that I've found it easy to install Ubuntu 7.04 in Dell laptops. regards, Allen On 7/6/07, Amir E. Aharoni wrote: > > On 05/07/07, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > > Even a really good vendor like Intel still has the odd propietary blob > > (on the way out, but still there). > > Sorry to wander further off-topic, but this really intrigued me: > > What do you mean by "on the way out"? My primary concern now is the > wireless drivers. Most laptops that i could find where i live have > Intel a/b/g wireless cards, which Ubuntu considers restricted. When i > popped a 7.04 live CD into a Toshiba laptop in a store, that's the > only restricted driver it complained about. I can feel more content if > i buy this one knowing that some day there'll be a true free driver. > > However, when i googled for "linux wireless driver blob" i couldn't > find anything substantial. There were mostly stories on making one for > OpenBSD and they also said that it will probably not work for Linux. > > Or did Intel announce that they are releasing the source? > > (Please excuse my cluelessness. I know that it's all hard work and i > don't expect kernel hackers to produce a driver just for me; i'm just > a curious monkey tring to follow the Free Software ethic.) > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --=20 >http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/allen.onpizzazz/my_photos >http://www.speedtest.net/result/63662323.png --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alec Wright (alecjw) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 17:01:33 -0000 Message-Id: <20070706170133.25372.63922.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I have attached a patch for Dell. It will hopefully fix this bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Richard Carter (ricket) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 18:36:51 -0000 Message-Id: <20070706183651.25354.73840.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> This makes me laugh. Until Ubuntu is as easy to set up, use, and as stable as Windows, as well as universally-supported, Ubuntu will never replace Windows. Chances of that happening in the near future? Slim. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Nick_Hill (nick-nickhill) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 19:36:48 -0000 Message-Id: <20070706193648.25354.16733.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Ricket Said: This makes me laugh. Until Ubuntu is as easy to set up, use, and as stable as Windows, as well a= s universally-supported, Ubuntu will never replace Windows. Chances of that happening in the near future? Slim. Hello Ricket I have set up several windows machines recently, not out of choice. From getting from an XP disc to a fully patched system with all miscellaneous drivers installed and productivity software installed typically takes 2-3 hours. If you replace a motherboard on an XP machine, you need to re-install. If you change a motherboard, you often either need to buy a new license for =C2=A395 or hassle a license out of Microsoft. On the other hand, you can swap a hard drive with Ubuntu installed between machines / change motherboards without having to re-install etc. If you need to re-install from scratch, takes 23 minutes INCLUDING a whole selection of productivity software. In terms of support, I wouldn't say that any operating system has universal support. More different programs currently run on windows than Ubuntu, that is true. However, most people who use computers will find software on Ubuntu which does what they need. In terms of stability, Windows is much more stable than it used to be, but ignoring problems exchanging hardware and malware compromises etc which more seriously impact windows reliability than Linux, still appears to me far less stable than Linux. Of the 6 machines I administer, which work very hard delivering web applications and database to thousands of users, the average uptime amongst them is 6 months - that is without trying to maintain uptimes or being bothered about reboots. In terms of hardware support, as manufacturers become increasingly aware of the Linux customer base, they will begin to ensure Linux compatibility before release, not as an afterthought. Life is relatively easy for Apple who don;t have to worry much about hardware compatibility, as Apple mostly chooses the hardware ther OS runs on. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Toni Ruottu (toni-ruottu) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 08:21:08 -0000 Message-Id: <1183969286.2321.1.camel@thunderchild> > My primary concern now is the wireless drivers. http://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/net/wireless/cards.html --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Amir E. Aharoni (amir-aharoni) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 08:32:51 -0000 Message-Id: <97f280ea0707090132i2c4e90cbmc6dd08ff55aefbe8@mail.gmail.com> > > My primary concern now is the wireless drivers. > > http://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/net/wireless/cards.html I am familiar with this page. Good luck trying to find an actual laptop that comes with one of those cards. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Saivann Carignan (oxmosys) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 19:18:04 -0000 Message-Id: <20070710191804.18298.21208.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> This bug is really critical in Canada too. Here's my opinion about major problems that causes this bug to exist ( this is a bit long ). There's 2 aspects to fix around this bug 1. The technical aspects ( making Ubuntu a better system which will be far = more than just usable) 2. The " people " aspects ( or how to bring Ubuntu to the public, a very ha= rd step ) Technical aspects have a very great evolution. But it isn't flawless : 1. Linux is fragmented. On a side, we have a hegemonic Microsoft which is all-in-one and the only one, in the other side we have Linux, fragmented over thousands of distributions. I think that Ubuntu should invite the OpenSource world to work in team and not in all separate projects, each point of view is good, we just need to find a way to fusion all ideas. This could lead to a thunder-evolution of Linux and avoid tons of wasted work. For an exemple, KDE and Gnome have too great way to abord the Desktop environment, why these teams don't work together to give to user more choice in a all-in-one Desktop solution. It would be pretty much better than "take one ot take the other". Combine the qualities! It's the same idea for some functionnalities that are missing in Linux Ubuntu ( example : Fax functionnalities ). 2. Compatibility. Linux Ubuntu is a great step to a Linux which is compatible with a lot of hardware, but it's still not sufficient for some configuration. We need to ask brands like Brother, AMD, nvidia to cooperate and show them that Linux isn't a rare system, it's the future and the future is there! We should not have any doubts on the power of OpenSource software, we know that it can lead computer to another level! People aspects is a step which have a big work to do on it : 1. What is Linux? Majority of people will don't even know that Microsoft is a software and that something else exist. Linux is not know or is just " a complicate OS " for people. This aspect can be fixed in too ways. We should take the time to speak and show Linux to people. This will have a long time impact if people like it and keeps showing Linux to their friends, family. Big Linux advantages ( like security and absence of viruses ) can be very interesting for people once they know it! Another important point is to make Linux Ubuntu informations webpages, online groups, etc. very available over Internet. It should be very easy to undersand in two click What is Linux Ubuntu ! ubuntu-fr.org is a good example of user-friendly webpage which gives a lot of information to the final user! It should be pretty much easier to understand that Linux can be a Microsoft Windows alternative with a lot of advantages. Easy to use and understand ressources should be available on Internet to help people with what they want to do. I give technical support to people at home. When I see a situation where Linux Ubuntu could be interesting for my customers, I take the time to show them the OS, give them informations and documentations as they can make very clear choices about their computers and know what they do. This makes people very happy to have Linux Ubuntu when they take this decision and they generally don't want to use Microsoft anymore. 2. Publicity. People will be curious around Linux if they see it! If people don't see Ubuntu on stores, publicities, etc. They will be more " closed " about it. For an example, if Dell would show more widely Dell with Linux Ubuntu systems, this would make an incredible publicity. " What? This is not Microsoft XP or Mac OS? So what is this? Is that a new powerful invention? " People will become curious about Linux Ubuntu. More Linux Ubuntu will be shown, more people will want it and more companies will offer it! The popularity of Linux Ubuntu will depends of the quality of the user interface ( attractive, powerful, easy to use ), the functionnalities and the stability. I will continue to show Linux Ubuntu to my customers and give support and documentation for them --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Toni Ruottu (toni-ruottu) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 07:37:22 -0000 Message-Id: <1184139442.29420.53.camel@thunderchild> > Linux is fragmented. That is why you don't consider Linux an operating system, and that is also why you use Ubuntu in first place. Ubuntu is not fragmented in that way. I see no reason why you should expect Ubuntu to be compatible with some other operating system, say Fedora. It happens to be far more compatible with Fedora than Windows ever was, but that is a good feature and not an issue. > I think that Ubuntu should invite the OpenSource world to work in team > and not in all separate projects, each point of view is good, we just > need to find a way to fusion all ideas. Pouring all administrative tasks to one entity will probably just crush it, not make it stronger. Are there some specific synergy benefits you are looking for. Never the less, Ubuntu is already allowing anyone to join. > tons of wasted work. Duplicating some functionality is not necessarily waste. It is useful to compete. Multiple copies of certain functionality also allows you to fall back to another one when the implementation you normally use fails. > For an exemple, KDE and Gnome have too great way to abord the Desktop > environment, why these teams don't work together to give to user more > choice in a all-in-one Desktop solution. They are. See http://freedesktop.org/ > Fax functionnalities The (and any other missing) feature is missing because no-one is interested in coding/paying for such feature and/or, because no-one has the talent and will to work as an organizer between the interest groups. i.e. Collect the money from interested and find a skilled bounty coder. Depending on strategy the task may contain financial risk and/or be profitable to the organizing entity. > We need to ask brands like Brother, AMD, nvidia to cooperate and show > them that Linux isn't a rare system, it's the future and the future is > there! I guess this is what Canonical is working on right now, for the sake of Ubuntu. > 1. What is Linux? Majority of people will don't even know that Microsoft > is a software and that something else exist. Linux is a kernel originally written by Linus Torvalds. Microsoft is a company. When it comes to Ubuntu, creating an abstract image of values and feelings in people, is more important than explaining any technical details. "Linux" is also a word packed with many positive and negative feelings and I'm not sure, if using it when advocating Ubuntu is a good idea at all. Iirc it is currently used because it is well known. Maybe one day Ubuntu will be a well known brand and using word "Linux" to gain attention stops being necessary. > Big Linux advantages ( like security and absence of viruses ) can be > very interesting for people once they know it! I don't think people are usually that interested in security. At least not as long as lack of it doesn't disturb their daily activities. > Another important point is to make Linux Ubuntu informations > webpages, online groups, etc. very available over Internet. They are not? > I give technical support to people at home. When I see a situation where > Linux Ubuntu could be interesting for my customers, I take the time to > show them the OS, give them informations and documentations as they can > make very clear choices about their computers and know what they do. > This makes people very happy to have Linux Ubuntu when they take this > decision and they generally don't want to use Microsoft anymore. I've done this too, but then they all call me when they get some trouble, because I'm the only Ubuntu skilled person they know. I'm wondering, if some sort of peer guidance program would help to solve the lack of free time this causes to me and people alike. Of course the problem is not that big. Just a bit annoying. More importantly it limits the amount of people I can recommend Ubuntu to. > I will continue to show Linux Ubuntu to my customers and give support > and documentation for them Thanks for your support to Ubuntu. I wish you luck and hope you don't get too many support phone calls per day. :-) --Toni --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Kilz (kilz) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 17:25:28 -0000 Message-Id: <20070711172528.15419.66430.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> One has to wonder why, with the first step towards fixing this bug (Dell coming pre installed). Why those 64bit computers come with the 32bit version of Ubuntu installed. Perhaps if the 64bit version was good enough to pre installed it would give buyers another reason to choose Ubuntu over the 32bit Windows versions on the Dell. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Amir E. Aharoni (amir-aharoni) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 18:54:46 -0000 Message-Id: <97f280ea0707111154j3cd94476h59f49631d939a8f0@mail.gmail.com> On 11/07/07, Kilz wrote: > One has to wonder why, with the first step towards fixing this bug (Dell > coming pre installed). Why those 64bit computers come with the 32bit > version of Ubuntu installed. I also wondered about it for a long time, and a friend of mine solved the mystery for me: The OS itself is OK, but some desktop applications don't work well in a 64-bit environment. The most notable example is the Flash plugin. There are few others that i can't recall now. The 64-bit is OK for a server with a large memory. You can read more about it in the FAQ's in the forums: http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=3D134 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Kilz (kilz) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 17:45:34 -0000 Message-Id: <20070714174535.21795.36671.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> With the availability of nspluginwrapper (I wrote a install script that dos= e it in 30 seconds) Flash is a non issue. Giving me a link to the 64bit sec= tion is like giving someone a map to their home. :) I also know that a larg= e amount of Fud, that gets repeated by quite a few people outside of the 64= bit section may be slowing some of the 64bit adoption. Things like "There a= re fewer programs" "Things dont work right" "Something is missing" and "You= dont really need it", are just that, FUD. This (nspluginwrapper) is going to be part of Gutsy from what Im told. Will= we see 64bit Ubuntu installed on 64bit hardware then? Secondly, if things= are missing from the 64bit version, that have work arounds available, why = are they not in Ubuntu? Nspluginwrapper has been available since before Edg= y's release. With only 64bit hardware being sold, when will development foc= us on the 64bit version? There is a clear advantage, offering a operating system that matches the ha= rdware. Something that Windows is having problems with. Why not use the adv= antage? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 18:15:15 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0707141115j3dfa91feu701245cfc68de8f9@mail.gmail.com> Right on !! Kilz !!! good going. 64bit Ubuntu works great, no other O/S can cut it. And for "mission critical" stuff it's the only way. Looking forward to seeing your "nsplugin wrapper', although , thanks to Ubuntu, no strong need here (yet). Tell people the truth ! There are way too many choices with Ubuntu, like a "kid in a candy shoppe", makes me giddy just thinking about it. FUD is like carmel candy, sickly sweet and sticks in your mouth. Flash a non-issue !!! can hardly wait. On 7/14/07, Kilz wrote: > > With the availability of nspluginwrapper (I wrote a install script that > dose it in 30 seconds) Flash is a non issue. Giving me a link to the 64bit > section is like giving someone a map to their home. :) I also know that a > large amount of Fud, that gets repeated by quite a few people outside of = the > 64bit section may be slowing some of the 64bit adoption. Things like "The= re > are fewer programs" "Things dont work right" "Something is missing" and "= You > dont really need it", are just that, FUD. > This (nspluginwrapper) is going to be part of Gutsy from what Im told. > Will we see 64bit Ubuntu installed on 64bit hardware then? Secondly, if > things are missing from the 64bit version, that have work arounds availab= le, > why are they not in Ubuntu? Nspluginwrapper has been available since befo= re > Edgy's release. With only 64bit hardware being sold, when will development > focus on the 64bit version? > There is a clear advantage, offering a operating system that matches the > hardware. Something that Windows is having problems with. Why not use the > advantage? > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > -- >http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/allen.onpizzazz/my_photos --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Kilz (kilz) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 20:25:08 -0000 Message-Id: <20070714202508.31578.95477.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Forgot to add a link last time. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=3D476924 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Rabi Poudyal (rabipoudel) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 05:41:08 -0000 Message-Id: <20070715054108.21795.52882.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I want to share the condition of Nepal, where more than 90 percentage of co= mputers are based on pirated softwares, OS is pirated windows. Madan Purask= ar Pustakalaya is translating linux in Nepali language. Here are very few n= umber of Ubuntu users, I am newbie to Ubuntu, just installed in my machine = and trying to use it as far as possible. And I am dreaming that here a chan= ge will definitely come, all pirated windows user will shift towards the fr= ee linux distro. And being the most popular linux distro, Ubuntu must try t= o attract such users as soon as possible being more user friendly. Thank you. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Saivann Carignan (oxmosys) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 04:23:15 -0000 Message-Id: <20070720042315.12871.34179.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Tony Ruottu said : Ubuntu is not fragmented in that way. I see no reason why you should expect Ubuntu to be compatible with some other operating system, say Fedora. Yeah I think that Ubuntu made a big step into gathering people and functionnalities were Debian had already made big works. Here I don't want to critic the huge variety or the way Open Source software are created because that's very great. I speak about accessibility and simplicity. To the end user, everything is a question of simplicity. The question was about the major place of Microsoft in the world of the OS, I think that if Ubuntu can gather all the treasures of the OpenSource world in a easy to use way, it would lead to a serious popularity. Most of people already use Ubuntu because it's all automatic, easy to use and with serious extension possibilities. Tony Ruotty said : They are. See http://freedesktop.org/ Yeah I knew that, I was talking more about a fusion between KDE or Gnome but It's maybe pure dream, I don't know the technical details beside all these projects. I just meant that working in team makes the projects stronger. I don't approve the hegemonic Microsoft position and the "all- in-one-unique-solution" and I certainly don't expect the OpenSource world to follow that, but I think that the talents of the OpenSource teams that all work on their side could lead to powerful results if there was less division. There's some projects that are separated because they do very different work, but I think that there's a lot of projects that try to aim the same target. Why these projects should be separated? Wouldn't they be better and stronger if they work together? Wouldn't that be easier for people that will search for a music program? This could lead to the creation of more complete programs. Tony Ruotty said : I don't think people are usually that interested in secu= rity. At least not as long as lack of it doesn't disturb their daily activities. Yeah you're right. But the point is that 80% of PCs are infected. Finally, people care about security because they almost all experience problems about it. Tony Ruotty said : They are not? I've seen serious complete information website about Ubuntu. ex : ubuntu-fr.org . But like I said earlier, I think that all this massive information could be more and more accurate, detailled, classified, translated to make more complete information sources. Not just blogs here and here but very complete information sources. People need to find comprehensive solutions! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Dan Trevino (dantrevino) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 16:54:35 -0000 Message-Id: <20070722165435.17061.44830.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I'm finding this bug is still unfixed. Is there a way to upgrade users? Can I "sudo dpkg --purge clueless-users" and then install better ones? Or do I have to build from source? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Fonss (aomanchuria) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 17:20:36 -0000 Message-Id: <20070722172036.17111.62768.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I get tired of reading soo many blogs, but I wish I could read all of this quickly. Can we put some effort in the text to speech engines? F-Microshift, eat my short Bill. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Amir E. Aharoni (amir-aharoni) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:00:28 -0000 Message-Id: <97f280ea0707230300x4a25c197p6e8b84349a31c8cf@mail.gmail.com> On 22/07/07, Fonss wrote: > I get tired of reading soo many blogs, but I wish I could read all of > this quickly. Can we put some effort in the text to speech engines? > F-Microshift, eat my short Bill. There is a point here. I just thought about it today: Where does the computing world go? Not just Ubuntu - the whole industry. Even Microsoft is in trouble here. What more can we do with computers? What will computers do five years from now that they can't do today? Writing documents and university papers can't get much better than MS-Office, OpenOffice, TeX and DocBook. Each of them caters rather well to their respective markets (except some interoperability issues, which are really rather minor if you put the bizness bullshit aside.) Music, Movies, Animation? You can't improve this field much more in the home market, and the high-end market of professional artists and studios is rather narrow. (Although ideas expressed in Lawrence Lessig's book "Free Culture" can make it wider ... you can read it on the web for free - it's amazing.) Business v1.0 software - databases, billing, CRM, ERP? It is a market of reliability, not innovation. Websites, communications and social networks? True innovation in that area hit a glass wall long ago, if you ask me. Some websites make up nicer AJAX tricks, but that's about it. So i thought that the really innovative thing that can useful on a major scale may lie in the field of Linguistics (disclaimer: I am studying for a B.A. in Linguistics). Speech recognition, text-to-speech and automated translation - all of them are related to Linguistics; none of them can be done right without proper scientific Linguistic preparation. Microsoft puts "improved" speech recognition into every version of MS-Office, but it is very far from doing it right. Xerox and IBM tried something in their respective (and respected) research labs, but it didn't see the light of day (at least yet). Google are rumored to be doing something with statistics-based automated translation. But no-one has anything finalized. The first one who does it right will rule the market for years to come. Of the current players, Google seems to have the best chances to succeed, but it can also be a startup company created by an anonymous undergraduate Liberal Arts student in India, Nigeria or Ukraine (or Israel :) ). If Canonical wants to make it big AND on the way make the world a better place in the spirit of Ubuntu, it should hire that student. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Dan Trevino (dantrevino) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 12:35:46 -0000 Message-Id: On 7/23/07, Amir E. Aharoni wrote: [...] > Writing documents and university papers can't get much better than > MS-Office, OpenOffice, TeX and DocBook. Each of them caters rather > well to their respective markets (except some interoperability issues, > which are really rather minor if you put the bizness bullshit aside.) > > That little interoperability thing IS important. Open standards are critical to a true free exchange of ideas. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Amir E. Aharoni (amir-aharoni) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 12:52:44 -0000 Message-Id: <97f280ea0707230552s401982e3o63f90c5e34c9185e@mail.gmail.com> On 23/07/07, DanTrevino wrote: > On 7/23/07, Amir E. Aharoni wrote: > > Writing documents and university papers can't get much better than > > MS-Office, OpenOffice, TeX and DocBook. Each of them caters rather > > well to their respective markets (except some interoperability issues, > > which are really rather minor if you put the bizness bullshit aside.) > > That little interoperability thing IS important. Open standards are > critical to a true free exchange of ideas. Of course it is - but there is no real engineering problem; it's *business bullshit*. And of course the public perception of "openness" - the public doesn't care how open the specs are, they just want their documents to work, NOW and unfortunately Microsoft uses it very well. But i was trying to talk about a much larger scale... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Dan Trevino (dantrevino) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 14:06:48 -0000 Message-Id: On 7/23/07, Amir E. Aharoni wrote: > On 23/07/07, DanTrevino wrote: > > On 7/23/07, Amir E. Aharoni wrote: > > > Writing documents and university papers can't get much better than > > > MS-Office, OpenOffice, TeX and DocBook. Each of them caters rather > > > well to their respective markets (except some interoperability issues, > > > which are really rather minor if you put the bizness bullshit aside.) > > > > That little interoperability thing IS important. Open standards are > > critical to a true free exchange of ideas. > > Of course it is - but there is no real engineering problem; it's > *business bullshit*. > > And of course the public perception of "openness" - the public doesn't > care how open the specs are, they just want their documents to work, > NOW and unfortunately Microsoft uses it very well. > > But i was trying to talk about a much larger scale... > Fair enough, I think we agree. I misunderstood your "interoperability issues, which are really rather minor..." statement. It sounds to me like you're saying interoperability is not an issue. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Daniel Kelly (dkelly360) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 16:08:02 -0000 Message-Id: <20070723160802.13173.76868.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Strictly from a business standpoint what we need to do is get computer- sharp people to use Ubuntu to get the snowball going - people who are willing to switch over... Your average home or office user is not going to do it just yet for obvious reasons. When the demand for this os is high enough, everything else we wish for will follow. The open-source movement is far more capable to adapt to demand then a private corporation, we just need the demand to be there... so how are we going to make it happen? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Stephan van Ingen (stephanvaningen) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 16:35:49 -0000 Message-Id: - Whenever you are asked by a friend, an Uncle, your mother, whoever, ... to help them with their computer, install Ubuntu - no discussion. The only files on their windows system are probably just some .doc, .xls, .ppt, .jpg-pictures from holidays and some mp3's -- all easilly usable on Ubuntu. - Whenever someone is talking about poblems with their computer (error messages on screen most likely to be '...Your Windows installation is not proven to be genuine...' or something), tell them you can help them by re-installing their computer and re-install it. On 7/23/07, Daniel Kelly wrote: > > Strictly from a business standpoint what we need to do is get computer- > sharp people to use Ubuntu to get the snowball going - people who are > willing to switch over... Your average home or office user is not going > to do it just yet for obvious reasons. When the demand for this os is > high enough, everything else we wish for will follow. The open-source > movement is far more capable to adapt to demand then a private > corporation, we just need the demand to be there... so how are we going > to make it happen? > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --=20 http://stephanvaningen.net stephanvaningen@gmail.com -- --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Daniel Kelly (dkelly360) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 17:37:39 -0000 Message-Id: <20070723173739.13123.33850.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I disagree with you, here's why... The Ubuntu UI is great, but they aren't familiar with it. I don't know enough about linux to fix some of the issues they may have -and- what about when they want to use a new windows program that comes out and doesn't work on emu's... Gamers will stick with windows until linux has everything and has all the proprietary drivers they need. I don't think thats the best way to promote it because it will paint Ubuntu in a bad light when they experience an issue that has no resolution, or they simply get too frustrated to learn the UI and openoffice. I could see a lot of my friends using Ubuntu for certain things and if they like it they'll keep it, if not they'll wipe it and install windows. Lets get the people who are likely to stick with Ubuntu to use it for now and focus on people who will get frustrated and bash it later. We can increase the demand for drivers, better software, and overall more functionality if we get people who actually use it. Gradually, open source software will replace software running on Windows, like Microsoft Office, IE, etc. Its already happening. Pretty soon there will be no need to run windows anymore except because of familiarity. Then Ubuntu will get pushed on them naturally and they will have to switch. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Nick_Hill (nick-nickhill) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 17:49:47 -0000 Message-Id: <20070723174948.7767.82651.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> My experience, which may differ from others, especially Stephan Vanigan, is that compelling people to upgrade from Windows to Ubuntu causes a lot of damage. I have tried strong encouragement and inducement, and found that users will fall back on me to push them every inch of the way. It is just not worthwhile doing it like that. Ultimately, there'll be nothing you can do to make them happy with _YOUR_ decision. People who are induced do not own the decision. The initial surprise of the differences will cause a shock. Unless they have already bought into it and know why _they_ bought into it, I have observed that they become very damaging detractors, telling people why they shouldn't use Ubuntu or other GNU/Linux systems. I have found that if you are completely honest and open with users, give them the choice, and explain the pros and cons of each system, those who decide (who are the majority) to use Ubuntu will become positive members of the community. They become people who talk about Ubuntu and GNU/Linux positively and become people who are willing to help the system on the way. THEY made the decision to buy into Ubuntu. It is THEIR decision. They own the decision, they get to love their decision, and the Ubuntu system. Their love of the system spreads to their friends.They look for reasons to love it, and try to fix any reason to hate it. If unsure of the above, please check out Leon Festinger's cognitive Dissonance theory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance My 7 years experience of introducing people to GNU/Linux has taught me to Never, Never induce someone to use a system which s different to one they are used to. Also, never Appear Zealous http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/zealot My tips on making constructive members of the Ubuntu community are: 1) Whenever possible, let people passively observe you using the Ubuntu sys= tem. 2) If they have questions, answer them honestly and openly. Talk about the = benefits and the pitfalls. Talk a little about the history and the philosop= hy behind the system. 3) If they appear interested, let them know that you'll be happy to install= the system on their computer and give some help. Also let them know you ca= n legally give them a disc if they want to install it themselves. 4) Wait for the request for you to re-install their system with Ubuntu and = show them at least how to use the package manager, Openoffice, Firefox and = advise them that they will probably never use a CD to install software - so= ftware automatically downloads and installs. CDs from libraries will not wo= rk, nor will Windows games CDs.=20 A very common mistake ex-Windows users make is to download an .exe file or hope to download something resembling a .exe file to install software. They need to know that is just not how it is done on Ubuntu. A completely different paradigm. Perhaps we need a handler for .exe files so that when a user tries to run one for the first time, they are told how to get and install software on Ubuntu. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Daniel Kelly (dkelly360) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 03:18:16 -0000 Message-Id: <20070724031816.29787.81543.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Very well put Nick. Ubuntu users must adhere to a growth strategy in order for this to work... Many people are not willing to give up windows yet and that's all well and fine. Ubuntu is not ready to provide everything that certain market segments need, and thats just where we're at right now. Hopefully, Ubuntu will gradually gain more and more 'market share' if you will and it should be exponential as exposure increases and improvements are made. A user should never have to use the terminal, but in many cases they have to - take eclipse pdt for example, or trying to get the beryl window manager installed on many systems. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Amir E. Aharoni (amir-aharoni) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 06:54:14 -0000 Message-Id: <97f280ea0707232354o5a8b8acfl3ea6cfa975622cea@mail.gmail.com> On 23/07/07, Stephanvaningen wrote: > - The only > files on their windows system are probably just some .doc, .xls, .ppt, > .jpg-pictures from holidays and some mp3's -- all easilly usable on Ubunt= u. Not quite. Maybe in English-speaking countries, but not here in Israel. MS-Office documents written in Hebrew don't open so well in OpenOffice. Also, VBA macros don't work in OpenOffice, and many people depend on them - that's a global problem. That is the only reason that i, despite all my dedication to Free Software, gave up and bought licenses for Vista and Office - i just have too much Office files in Hebrew, which i need for academic work. (I use Ubuntu for everything else). Microsoft has a good reason to fight OpenOffice and keep the Office file formats locked in the vault... :( --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Stephan van Ingen (stephanvaningen) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 07:00:42 -0000 Message-Id: ok! Thank you for your reaction! (I'm not good in monologues :-)) I agree with you both with the arguments you give - absolutely, and here's my point now: - Microsoft never had to convince its audience with so many care and tactics: you see a nice example of this if you look at the difference between office10 and office2007: an average end-user sees two different programs, a lot of differences in look and feel and in behaviour, and I am sure that noone of Microsoft needs to carefully convince people to start using their new product. What I see there is that Microsoft pushes its programs through updates in companies, where employees have no choice of using it and then: - after a while need to install it also at their homes because they need to do work at home and must be compatible - because they get illegal copies from work can only use those to install it at home --> I don't see this careful procedure in the Microsoft-environment: what are we doing wrong then? Stephan. On 7/24/07, Daniel Kelly wrote: > > Very well put Nick. Ubuntu users must adhere to a growth strategy in > order for this to work... Many people are not willing to give up windows > yet and that's all well and fine. Ubuntu is not ready to provide > everything that certain market segments need, and thats just where we're > at right now. Hopefully, Ubuntu will gradually gain more and more > 'market share' if you will and it should be exponential as exposure > increases and improvements are made. A user should never have to use > the terminal, but in many cases they have to - take eclipse pdt for > example, or trying to get the beryl window manager installed on many > systems. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --=20 http://stephanvaningen.net stephanvaningen@gmail.com -- --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Paul Flint (flint) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 07:33:20 -0000 Message-Id: Dear Amir, Are you having trouble operating Ubuntu in Hebrew? I would refer you to: sudo apt-get install language-pack-he=20 https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-he/+members Note that I do not speak Hebrew, so I would be interested and attentive to = your results. Regards, Flint On Tue, 24 Jul 2007, Amir E. Aharoni wrote: > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 06:54:14 -0000 > From: Amir E. Aharoni > Reply-To: Bug 1 <1@bugs.launchpad.net> > To: flint@flint.com > Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > On 23/07/07, Stephanvaningen wrote: >> - The only >> files on their windows system are probably just some .doc, .xls, .ppt, >> .jpg-pictures from holidays and some mp3's -- all easilly usable on Ubun= tu. > > Not quite. > > Maybe in English-speaking countries, but not here in Israel. > > MS-Office documents written in Hebrew don't open so well in OpenOffice. > > Also, VBA macros don't work in OpenOffice, and many people depend on > them - that's a global problem. > > That is the only reason that i, despite all my dedication to Free > Software, gave up and bought licenses for Vista and Office - i just > have too much Office files in Hebrew, which i need for academic work. > (I use Ubuntu for everything else). > > Microsoft has a good reason to fight OpenOffice and keep the Office > file formats locked in the vault... :( > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > /************************************ Paul Flint 17 Averill Street Barre, VT 05641 http://www.flint.com/home skype: flintinfotech Work: (202) 537-0480 Fax: (703) 852-7089 Free advice .~. is worth /V\ exactly what /( )\ you pay for it. ^^-^^ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Amir E. Aharoni (amir-aharoni) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 08:47:18 -0000 Message-Id: <97f280ea0707240147g1250ce4ex37bf5737d3a765ad@mail.gmail.com> On 24/07/07, Paul Flint wrote: > Dear Amir, > > Are you having trouble operating Ubuntu in Hebrew? I would refer you to: > > sudo apt-get install language-pack-he > https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-he/+members > > Note that I do not speak Hebrew, so I would be interested and attentive to > your results. Thanks for the link. As far as i am concerned, the worst bug in Ubuntu (a big bunch of bugs really) that seriously hurts its adoption in Israel is that OpenOffice very often opens documents in Hebrew quite badly, especially if they have tables or other tricky formatting. It's really stupid, but when people email each other jokes and beautiful pictures in PPT or DOC format and they can't see them correctly, it really bugs them and they dismiss Ubuntu immediately. Translating OpenOffice's menus doesn't fix that (i contributed a few translations myself). There's also another problem - some important Israeli websites are IE-only in a very bad way. I didn't have to resort to IE for any non-Hebrew website since about 2004, but in Israel it's still a catastrophe. I occasionally email the webmasters, trying to remind them that there are some people that don't use Windows, but they rarely bother to reply, let alone fix their sites. OpenOffice and Firefox are not Canonical products, but they are (rightly) part of the core default installation and that's what most users see and use. Can Canonical do something about it?.. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Nick_Hill (nick-nickhill) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:33:56 -0000 Message-Id: <20070724103358.29787.54775.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Hello Amir Perhaps we need to evaluate and consider priorities for R-L language support, by considering how much an initiative put into improved R-L support will pay back with increased community contribution. To bring GNU/Linux to critical mass quickly, it is essential to focus on areas where we can generate a strong positive feedback effect. A very practical way users of R-L languages can help is by filing high quality test-case bugs against Openoffice and Firefox. Either through Ubuntu Launchpad, or through Firefox/OpenOffice's own bug tracker. Better still, write patches for the programs. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Daniel Kelly (dkelly360) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 17:23:01 -0000 Message-Id: <20070724172301.29787.80812.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Stephan, we're not doing anything wrong! We just need to keep on the Ubuntu path and improve it. We also need to get others to use it without any undue frustration. If as many people use Ubuntu as do Macs then we will be well on our way to a full fledged, usable and free OS adoptable by the home desktop world. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: jawahar (ijawahar) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 07:48:42 -0000 Message-Id: How far Wall Street firms are using Ubuntu? On 7/24/07, Daniel Kelly wrote: > > Stephan, we're not doing anything wrong! We just need to keep on the > Ubuntu path and improve it. We also need to get others to use it > without any undue frustration. If as many people use Ubuntu as do Macs > then we will be well on our way to a full fledged, usable and free OS > adoptable by the home desktop world. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tama00 (tamrix) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:00:33 -0000 Message-Id: <20070726080033.20456.70040.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Where is it written that Linux or the GNU organistation wanted to dominate the market share for desktop operating systems? WHER?!?!~! Linux's aim was never to be the number one most used OS. NEVER i dont even care if mark himself says it. The aim of GNU/Linux was to create a free (As in speech) operating system. Dont go around pressuring your friends to use Linux, if they dont want to use it fine. I dont care.. Linus doesnt care.. Theres NO shareholders in Linux so they wont care.. No one is losing any money.. Linux is developed by the user for the user. Sure tell your friends to try it out and help em.. But for god sakes Linux is not the solution to microsoft.. ITs a completely different OS for people who have completely different needs. It will never completely replace microsoft as long as they keep developing. Its a chicken and egg problem. Some of you may just want to get back at microsoft. But thats no need to drag other people in with you!! Untill Linus himself says, "Linux was created to take microsofts market share" will be the day untill i beleive what is said here. Microsoft being number 1 on the OS is NOT A BUG. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Porfirio (porfirio-ribeiro) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:01:02 -0000 Message-Id: <20070726090102.6248.47408.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I am with you. We cant force no one to jump into Linux. Linux is great, thats a true, but for some people it might not be If in all your life used and learned using a PC with Linux, for sure when you get into windows you would say "Where the hell is my apt-get? Why is so hard to get and build programs from source? DLL Hell!! " Thats what appen when someone used to windows go to Linux, they miss the things they are used too, they ask "Where do i get a AntiVirus\Spy\MallWare and firewall for Linux? Where the $$%#$$%"#$%/ program is?" Linux is not Windows! Both have good and bad points, it all depends on your uses. I am a Linux lover but i am stuck to Windows because of my business program ( its being impossible to run it on wine :( ) Long life Linux, one day it will be ready for everyone, just a matter of choice --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:54:30 -0000 Message-Id: <20070726095430.20456.4217.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Fonss wrote: "I get tired of reading soo many blogs, but I wish I could read all of this quickly. Can we put some effort in the text to speech engines?" Its maybe not quite what you want, but there's a frontend for the festival speech synthesizer called "Fala" which can be downloaded as a DEB from here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/fala You could just copy and paste the text in there and set it to read. Tama00 wrote: "Where is it written that Linux or the GNU organistation wanted to dominate the market share for desktop operating systems? [...] Untill Linus himself says, "Linux was created to take microsofts market share" will be the day untill i beleive what is said here." http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Linus_Torvalds quotes him as saying: "Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect." ;) Tama00 continued: "Microsoft being number 1 on the OS is NOT A BUG." It makes for a catchy title for the bug, but if you read the description, M$ is just the largest example of the real problem, "Non- free software", which "is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry." So "Microsoft being number 1 on the OS" is indeed a symptom of the bug just as much as if Apple were #1. Currently, IMHO, one of the biggest gaps in terms of FOSS replacements Ubuntu faces in this regard to this bug is the lack of a mature Flash-alternative. Gnash is plodding along and eventually we'll see it hopefully installed by default. Alternately, Adobe could get their act together and GPL Flash as Sun did with Java... but I'm not holding my breath. Maybe M$ will scare them into it by getting some traction with their 'flash killer' "Silverlight" (though if its anything like their 'iPod Killer' "Zune", Adobe has nothing to worry about ;) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Nicola Rosati (supernaicol) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:59:07 -0000 Message-Id: <20070726095908.6348.47945.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> @ Tama00: you're right: in its own MS having a majority market share is not a bug: bu= t you're not considering some consequences: due (also) to their policies, o= ften we have to handle with proprietary formats and protocols (doc, xls, wm= a, ecc.); due (sometime) to their pressure some hardware manufacturers neit= her release drivers designed for linux nor they permit reverse engineering = of windows one; so their behaviors influence also people, like me and you a= nd Mark Shuttlespace and John Doe here, that in complete freedom have made = a different choice. They don't want us to be comfortable with our choice. This is, in my very supponent opinion, the worst bug that can even exist. W= e have to change this situation. Maybe it's not a matter of market share, i= can agree, but at least is a matter of knowledge... Another little one: >ITs a completely different OS for people who have completely different needs It's a completely different OS, but i feel that my needs are exactly the same of Luca's (my friend that enjoy runnign MS Windows). Bye all. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Saivann Carignan (oxmosys) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:25:14 -0000 Message-Id: <20070726192514.2365.77463.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I think that the Microsoft majority market share is a bug because we don't expect Linux or Microsoft either to be THE OS. The minority of Linux Ubuntu would be a better name for that bug. Of course, the initial goal of Linux isn't to replace Windows and I don't think that Linux Ubuntu try to aim that goal, Linux Ubuntu just aim to expand itself and be a good OS for everyone, for the developper, professionnal and for the home user! Why not? Linux is a very great OS that could be interesting for a lot of people needs. And Linux Ubuntu don't aim to force user to use it!!!! Like Tama00 said, Linux isn't a company and don't make any profit, but it doesn't mean that Linux Ubuntu don't aim to have a bigger affluence, because it's a great project that aim to win popularity, like Firefox! Because Linux Ubuntu goal is to have more satisfied users, it will evolve it that way. This is not forcing people to use Ubuntu but inviting people and being more adapted to their needs, and invite them to give participation in the evolution of that OS. That's a great goal! This gives more value and visibility to the Linux kernel which can be more popular, not for money purposes but just because a project that don't touch anybody doesn't have the same value than a project that have a lot of testers, users and a big amount of people around it. A project like this, it's gold. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: pitwalker (pitwalker) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 09:33:49 -0000 Message-Id: <20070729093349.4284.75084.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> (sorry for my bad english) Ubuntu is well known at now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DE4Fbk52Mk1w But, this is dangerous in this level of the ubuntu installer! Because thousands and thousands of unexperienced computer users trying with run the installers on the home PC's with an existing OS and important = data. And then this users erase all of the "important data" on the computer! And this users starts hate Ubuntu and Linux. From ignorance. Hard core developers must change the installers DEFAULTs for this chases. For irresponsible users. "For humanity with others." Because Ubuntu "Is Lin= ux for human beings", and not only for computer gurus and system administrators. And a wery BIG ISSUE: the quality ot the TRANSLATIONS! I think of "cfdisk", "fdisk" or other DANGEROUS TOOLS! When TRANSLATORS work badly: this resoult in very much cases: DATA LOSS in = unexperienced users. I think: best solution is a non translated tool (in informatical english) than a BADLY TRANSLATED. best regards: pitwalker --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Nick_Hill (nick-nickhill) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 10:21:12 -0000 Message-Id: <20070729102112.20556.54177.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Pitwalker; Nobody with a little computer experience, and a rough understanding of the installer language should risk loosing data unless they choose to ignore a warning that they should understand.. The program which installs Ubuntu from the live CD is called Ubiquity. If the warnings are not clear to you, please file a bug against ubiquity and provide an example of how the installer can universally communicate the risk of data loss, and instruct the user on how they can prevent loss of valuable data. In general, the easier it is to loose large amounts of data, the clearer the warnings need to be. However, ultimately, any user who has valuable data must either make backups or loose it (hardware failures and user errors will always eventually eat data which is not backed up). --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: pitwalker (pitwalker) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 11:05:14 -0000 Message-Id: <20070729110514.6332.89040.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Nick_Hill; right, this is the true. But we speak -from this things- for nothing in most cases. Peoples <> gurus. I can see problems the whole Ubiquity. In most cases new triers want dual b= oot. (Or some person like I boot easily up to 9 OS with GAG, or other similar EX= TERNAL tool) Peoples want a NOT complicated dual boot, that newer fails. And the beginners hates an situation while the default boot entry changed, when beginners cannot set the default boot entry from the Ubiquity. When these users try with other os, the booting mechanism can easily destro= yed, and for these users cannot restore the booting all of the installed OS. rig= ht? for example: https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-terminal/+question/10352 https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/10581 https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/10529 https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/7540 ... for the infinity this and similar thing are common problems --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: hanselang (lesnah) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 14:41:55 -0000 Message-Id: <20070803144156.13462.53731.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> @Pitwalker You are absolutely right, I killed my PC today (hopefully parts replacement= was on warranty) as well as two full days of attempting to get Ubuntu to d= ualboot with Windows XP on SATA RAID0 and an IDE drive. I find it very sad that this little task (installation) took up an extraord= inary amount of time where the same process in Windows XP would have taken = 20 seconds to load a 3.5" floppy disk into the floppy drive, press F6 to lo= ad [Specific Drivers] and choose which SATA RAID0 drive to begin Windows in= stallation. While this is a personal situation, I have found numerous unanswered posts by newbies who JUST wanted to have their cake and eat it. i.e. Dual boot and install with little hassle. To draw an analogy, no point furnishing a house beautifully if you don't own the key to that house. The mantra of "you must backup your data" has to go. It goes against the ph= ilosophy of bringing an OS to the people. Microsoft Windows 2000/XP/Vista is about serving the people (with some comp= romises) They have anticipated and researched well market trends and responded. I would like Ubuntu to do the same. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Saivann Carignan (oxmosys) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 18:40:07 -0000 Message-Id: <20070803184007.16340.40858.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I think that Microsoft and Linux Ubuntu aren't on the same egal ground to this point. Microsoft Windows will NEVER give the choice to a user to dual boot with another system but Ubuntu will.. but we shouldn't expect Ubuntu to be completely flawless when working with closed technologies that they didn't invented ( like FAT32 or NTFS ), it's already a miracle that Linux can work with NTFS partitions, I think that this should be always improved but we can't expect it to work without risks, even in Microsoft installer anyway. And the RAID drivers you got for Windows, does the producer of your RAID makes drivers for Linux?? I have doubts. I agree with you to say that Linux Ubuntu should be more "all working in few easy automatics steps" and I think that it already beat Microsoft on some point with installation because Linux detect everything and make all works when drivers exists. The bitter point is that Ubuntu have access to a restricted driver list, this would be a very important point to be improved! I don't personnaly know about RAID 0 so maybe that Ubuntu have to make some works on this. And I TOTALLY agree that there should be a REALLY more easy way to manage dual boot in Linux, editing /boot/grub/menu.lst isn't pretty user friendly. But I don't think that you can install Microsoft Windows without loosing all your data, except with another partition which will not be erased, but that's all the same for Windows or Linux. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Stephan van Ingen (stephanvaningen) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 23:41:21 -0000 Message-Id: If we keep thinking in this alley wse won't get anywhere. Some people say 'don't force it on people', while M$ does, succesfully Some people say 'ubuntu leaves space for other OS's', while M$ doesn't, succesfully, Some people say 'we aren't doing anything wrong', while M$ does, but they still are succesful ;-) it hurts but it's the truth, we must dare to play that role too, plain simple. I think that we just don't have a clear strategy to build on... On 8/3/07, Mertiki wrote: > > I think that Microsoft and Linux Ubuntu aren't on the same egal ground > to this point. > > Microsoft Windows will NEVER give the choice to a user to dual boot with > another system but Ubuntu will.. but we shouldn't expect Ubuntu to be > completely flawless when working with closed technologies that they > didn't invented ( like FAT32 or NTFS ), it's already a miracle that > Linux can work with NTFS partitions, I think that this should be always > improved but we can't expect it to work without risks, even in Microsoft > installer anyway. And the RAID drivers you got for Windows, does the > producer of your RAID makes drivers for Linux?? I have doubts. > > I agree with you to say that Linux Ubuntu should be more "all working in > few easy automatics steps" and I think that it already beat Microsoft on > some point with installation because Linux detect everything and make > all works when drivers exists. The bitter point is that Ubuntu have > access to a restricted driver list, this would be a very important point > to be improved! I don't personnaly know about RAID 0 so maybe that > Ubuntu have to make some works on this. And I TOTALLY agree that there > should be a REALLY more easy way to manage dual boot in Linux, editing > /boot/grub/menu.lst isn't pretty user friendly. > > But I don't think that you can install Microsoft Windows without loosing > all your data, except with another partition which will not be erased, > but that's all the same for Windows or Linux. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --=20 http://stephanvaningen.net stephanvaningen@gmail.com -- --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: franganghi (joered) Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 02:40:49 -0000 Message-Id: <20070804024049.907.53145.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> You're right! I think we have only one goal to reach at the moment: we must arrange think= s to make ubuntu the best os for US, not for nobody-knows-who! One day, "other people" will envy our desktop, our cube, the usability of o= ur system and so on... and for Microsoft THAT DAY will be a "cloudy" day. Asking ourselves which is the best strategy to follow NOW will lead us nowhere. -- Stephanvaningen message -- If we keep thinking in this alley wse won't get anywhere. [...] --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: MankyGitt (dnadruff) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 02:01:48 -0000 Message-Id: <20070809020149.23065.88476.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I think it is important to note that Telstra - Australia's majority telco that provides phone, internet, and paytv solutions to the consumer market specifically refuses to support dialup, ADSL and CABLE broadband users on ANY operating system other than MS Windows, and MAC OS. This telco locks in the user by requiring "heartbeat" software to be installed on the client pc. Thats correct - there is no documented nor supported method to allow a hardware device other than the PC itself to keep the connection alive. I called their technical support and spent a very long and exhausting time trying to get their technical team to support connecting a laptop to a cable device where the laptop was running Ubuntu (Feisty). I chased my request through several support tiers and at each level was told "I'm sorry we do not support that operating system". Therefore I assert that BUG #1 is indeed perpetrated in australia by third party companies operating in collusion with that particular Software Vendor. I strongly urge anyone that operates within the domain of this telco to log support calls for Linux OS broadband support to encourage a change of attitude and allow a freer market to operate. Regards MankyGitt --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Amir E. Aharoni (amir-aharoni) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 05:13:14 -0000 Message-Id: <97f280ea0708082213t73203ce7o952a079f0d18c0b6@mail.gmail.com> On 09/08/07, MankyGitt wrote: > I think it is important to note that Telstra - Australia's majority > telco that provides phone, internet, and paytv solutions to the consumer > market specifically refuses to support dialup, ADSL and CABLE broadband > users on ANY operating system other than MS Windows, and MAC OS. Most people won't care about it at all, but those who do can make a change. It's just like the recent discussion about the hardships of buying a laptop that supports Free Software. People who care about it, should choose the vendors with whom they work according to their level of support for Free Software. An ISP doesn't support Linux? Don't complain and find another ISP. I changed an ISP, because the old one didn't support Linux. (Actually, in Israel most ISP's actively support Linux.) It's applicable in many fields. I am looking for a new health insurance plan now and i am trying to choose the one whose website works best in Firefox. Or, more correctly: *all* health insurance websites in Israel suck at their Firefox support and i am choosing the one that sucks the least and i am calling their support people and i am telling them that. That's probably the best thing that average caring citizens can do, and it's much more than nothing. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Benjamin (benjamin-hbsys) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 07:05:44 -0000 Message-Id: <20070811070544.17887.84001.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I am very much in favour of Ubuntu and Open Source software and would really like to see Microsoft getting some serious competition. I agree with the comments regarding games being a reason why many people wont switch. Another big reason is that for business to switch it would need a good alternate to the accounting packages available on windows, which unfortunately in South Africa are almost non existant. We need something that is equivalent to the Pastel range of software. Something that obviously goes hand in hand with a good accounting package are good printer drivers for a wide variety of printers - this is really lacking in Ubuntu and Linux in gereral. In summary solve the gaming, accounting and printing problems and you will go a long way in convincing users to make the switch. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Marko Jung (mjung) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 12:21:23 -0000 Message-Id: <20070811122123.17887.86693.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Despite DELL is officially now offering systems with pre-installed Ubuntu in it's German online store, I was not able to order an Inspiron 6400 notebook, which appeared as the only search result after selecting Ubuntu Linux as operating system. All links to configure this system or get more details only offered Vista(tm) infested systems. I think Ubuntu staff should check this and contact DELL to fix this. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Stephan van Ingen (stephanvaningen) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 17:48:53 -0000 Message-Id: I think it is also good if you as a customer would react to the company (Dell) about it... On 8/11/07, Marko Jung wrote: > Despite DELL is officially now offering systems with pre-installed > Ubuntu in it's German online store, I was not able to order an Inspiron > 6400 notebook, which appeared as the only search result after selecting > Ubuntu Linux as operating system. All links to configure this system or > get more details only offered Vista(tm) infested systems. > > I think Ubuntu staff should check this and contact DELL to fix this. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --=20 http://stephanvaningen.net stephanvaningen@gmail.com -- --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: stephan.aubert (stephan-aubert) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 15:50:42 -0000 Message-Id: <20070812155043.26656.81197.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Hello A great way to get rid of this bug and to promote Ubuntu would be the possi= bility to personalize the installation for those who have not yet the choic= e to purchase a new computer. In other words, a choice should be offered to create & download & write a s= pecific CD with all the details provided by the user before he downloads, i= n order to enable a selection of the most=20 appropriate tools for his computer. Period. As an example: I have a fujitsu-siemens "scenic T i845D" computer with a = hyundai "ImageFlat L50A" monitor, a Logitech Acer "M-SBJ96" mouse, a frenc= h-switzerland Acer "SK1688" keyboard, and a Logitech" Quickcam Communicate = STX". Assuming that there could be a selection on a main page, where I could ente= r all the hardware description I currently have, therefore it would be alre= ady extremely simple in as much as all the right stuff would be selected at this very first step and be written on a i= nstall CD for my computer and my computer only(*). I wrote this, because b= etween the time of my first attempt with Linux and now, there has been seve= ral weeks of hectic quest and search amongst various forums. Finally, and t= hanks to a user name "Jean-lux" on a french ubuntu forum who took several h= ours of his time to help me online, my installation has been done "aux peti= ts oignons" (to match exactly the hardware installed in my computer). And i= f I wrote this, it is also because the main "bug" in installing Ubuntu is t= he terrible feeling of being lost in a strange world, while with M$ everyth= ing is made to hold your hand firmly until everything works fine. Or so. Forgive please the lenght of my message and my terrible english. In french = I would certainly do it better. Kind regards to everybody and thank you, Mark Shuttleworth! Long life to Ub= untu! ---------------------------------- (*) would that kill the sharing spirit of Ubuntu? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: s.a.top (s.a.top) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 22:09:28 -0000 Message-Id: <20070812220928.15827.88992.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> i got an idea: what about first fixing the other 31562 open bugs ? then we have a super quality linux distro ! :-) then bug #1 will be fixed too ! ;-) (don't take me serious) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: teesandie (teesandie) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 16:58:31 -0000 Message-Id: <20070819165831.14676.21177.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> ITS FUNNY BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE WANT FREE THINGS SO I STRONGLY DISAGREE --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Indy (indy90-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 10:34:35 -0000 Message-Id: <20070826103435.30580.9972.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I could say that this bug is 100% valid in Greece. On any single computer shop, the 80% of computers, have Windows pre-installed, and the rest 20% have MacOS X. Not a single computer with an open-source operating system pre-installed, in computer shops. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: AlesUbu123 (ales-maver) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 13:10:05 -0000 Message-Id: <20070826131005.8471.42475.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Confirmed for Slovenia.=20 But it is improving with the growth of open-source community efforts. We sh= ould improve compatibility with other OS's and try making GUI's more frien= dly to make rate of growth of open source user-base even faster. I'm contin= uing to spread good word about Ubuntu in Slovenia - my share to fixing this= bug :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jasey (jason-rivers) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:15:51 -0000 Message-Id: <20070830121551.30892.50182.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I have been working on this bug recently: First of, I have moved my fathers computer, his servers and all the systems in his house to use Linux. this consists of around 10 systems. Then I moved onto the Girlfriend, I told her I didn't want windows in my house, so she now uses Ubuntu Studio (she does alot of music work), then I sorted out her parents and her 2 brothers, they are now all on Linux too. Then came the office, it seems most in our office are slowly moving over to Ubuntu Linux, and I have even got my boss using it on his system for our conference for demonstrations to our customers. This consists of around 20 computers in the last, say.... 3 months, it's not brilliant, but i've lost count of how many times i've ran through the conversation of: # "And this is completely free?" # "yes, completely" # "and you're sure I won't get into trouble for using it?" # "100% Sure, its completely free" I see the problem as people are just not aware that this is completely free. I am a gamer, as is my brother, and we both use Ubuntu, my Brother plays Wo= rld of Warcraft alot over Cedega, I play alot of PlaneShift and some Unreal= Tournament 2004 (can't wait for the new one) There's plenty of very good L= inux native games - Free or not, I don't care about paying =C2=A330 for a g= ame, if it works. actually, the fact that games do not work under Linux jus= t saves me money, so i'm not going to complain too much, if game manufactur= ers made games for Linux, I would be happy to buy them, though I might need= a pay rise.....=20 if every Linux user could "convert" 20 or so people every 3 months, then we would have the "pyramid" effect and could combat this bug in little time. one other note: - My father builds PC's and he's now offering Ubuntu Linux based systems (he still offers windows as he doesn't want to go out of business just yet) and this is another step in the right direction. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Amir E. Aharoni (amir-aharoni) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:33:53 -0000 Message-Id: <97f280ea0708300633m75bf6c6fv86a2fa1ae156b49d@mail.gmail.com> Hi, i saw your reply on Bug #1 and this is a personal reply. On 30/08/2007, Jasey wrote: > Then I moved onto the Girlfriend, I told her I didn't want windows in my > house, so she now uses Ubuntu Studio (she does alot of music work) Is she actually happy about it? I'd love to move my band to from Windows/Cubase to Free Software. Although i work as a programmer, i could never really get the hang of music software, but our singer is the Cubase guy. He uses Windows and he has never seen anything else. Is there a chance that he could actually use it for recording? And use his numerous VST plugins? And his Firepod? If you / your girlfriend don't mind, i would like to hear about your experiences. Thanks in advance. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alan Shenton (solitudebytheshore) Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 16:47:49 -0000 Message-Id: <20070901164749.2134.81654.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I splatted this bug dead a few months ago when I installed Kubuntu 7.04 on my PC! I'm slowly going through all my friends and familys computer killing this bug as well! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Stephan van Ingen (stephanvaningen) Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 19:18:50 -0000 Message-Id: Seems like we're on the same frequency here :) This is quite similar to my strategy On 8/30/07, Jasey wrote: > > I have been working on this bug recently: > > First of, I have moved my fathers computer, his servers and all the > systems in his house to use Linux. this consists of around 10 systems. > Then I moved onto the Girlfriend, I told her I didn't want windows in my > house, so she now uses Ubuntu Studio (she does alot of music work), then > I sorted out her parents and her 2 brothers, they are now all on Linux > too. Then came the office, it seems most in our office are slowly moving > over to Ubuntu Linux, and I have even got my boss using it on his system > for our conference for demonstrations to our customers. > > This consists of around 20 computers in the last, say.... 3 months, it's > not brilliant, but i've lost count of how many times i've ran through > the conversation of: > > # "And this is completely free?" > # "yes, completely" > # "and you're sure I won't get into trouble for using it?" > # "100% Sure, its completely free" > > I see the problem as people are just not aware that this is completely > free. > I am a gamer, as is my brother, and we both use Ubuntu, my Brother plays > World of Warcraft alot over Cedega, I play alot of PlaneShift and some > Unreal Tournament 2004 (can't wait for the new one) There's plenty of very > good Linux native games - Free or not, I don't care about paying =C2=A330= for a > game, if it works. actually, the fact that games do not work under Linux > just saves me money, so i'm not going to complain too much, if game > manufacturers made games for Linux, I would be happy to buy them, though I > might need a pay rise..... > > if every Linux user could "convert" 20 or so people every 3 months, then > we would have the "pyramid" effect and could combat this bug in little > time. > > one other note: - My father builds PC's and he's now offering Ubuntu > Linux based systems (he still offers windows as he doesn't want to go > out of business just yet) and this is another step in the right > direction. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --=20 http://stephanvaningen.net stephanvaningen@gmail.com -- --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Nemes Ioan Sorin (nemes-sorin) Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 19:33:55 -0000 Message-Id: <46D9BEA3.6030306@gmail.com> Same here my friend - I just return to my home - other Vista killed=20 today, I wish to plan a Vista per Day but this is not possible always as=20 I wish. Good Hunting to all !. Sorin Alan Shenton wrote: > I splatted this bug dead a few months ago when I installed Kubuntu 7.04 > on my PC! >=20 > I'm slowly going through all my friends and familys computer killing > this bug as well! > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Paul Flint (flint) Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 20:41:46 -0000 Message-Id: Greetings, I am very much in favor of the several Vistas a month kill, however I am=20 trying another approach. I set up a dozen computers at a local church for anyone to play with.=20 People will believe in almost anything in a church... They all run Ubuntu. In truth, I am hunting the young ones. I suspect=20 that it will be easier to kill off the Vista if you begin by never letting = it take root. Regards, Flint /************************************ Paul Flint 17 Averill Street Barre, VT 05641 http://www.flint.com/home skype: flintinfotech Work: (202) 537-0480 Fax: (703) 852-7089 Free advice .~. is worth /V\ exactly what /( )\ you pay for it. ^^-^^ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Amir E. Aharoni (amir-aharoni) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 10:24:18 -0000 Message-Id: <20070902102418.25259.96584.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I have a Toshiba Tecra laptop with Vista and Ubuntu Feisty. My wife urgently needed to connect to the Internet a few days ago, so she went to the Rambam hospital in Haifa, which has free access points. She's not an avid GNU/Linux user like i am, so she tried to connect with Vista and it didn't work. She tried calling the local tech support, who tried to help her, but gave up and said that she should have installed XP. She was badly frustrated and then i had a crazy idea - why not try it with Ubuntu? I rebooted, turned on the Intel wireless card in restricted drivers drivers manager and the network worked PERFECTLY. (Later she had trouble using an IE-only website, but that's a different story.) So there - Linux, despite its troublesome history in wireless support won over Vista quite easily in this case! Keep it in mind when you see someone struggling with WiFi in Windows. Watch this space for part 2 of the story ... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Amir E. Aharoni (amir-aharoni) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 10:27:39 -0000 Message-Id: <20070902102739.25259.19487.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> ... So, i am having fun surfing the web with Ubuntu and Firefox in the Rambam hospital in Haifa and i have a warm fuzzy feeling that i am providing a good example of using Free Software and helping the Ubuntu community to solve this Bug. A guy in his fifties approaches me and asks: Guy: Do you connect to the Web with your laptop here? Me: That's right, i do. Guy: I have a laptop and it didn't work for me here. How do you connect? Me: Well, i just have this icon here, which shows which networks it detects and i click and connect and it's pretty simple ... Although there's a good chance that you don't have the same operating system as i do. Guy: Oh, it is the same - i have Windows XP. Me: Ehh ... this is not Windows XP, this is Linux ... And this is a big of a problem - i am not sure that he understood what i said. (I must be lucky that he knew what an "operating system" is.) I am certainly NOT in the camp that hates KDE and Gnome because "they look too much like Windows". Looking like Windows is not a bad strategy, when correctly applied. But apparently some people don't even notice that it's not Windows, so, while it is a success at making the desktop look easy and familiar, it may also work against the marketing and branding efforts. It's food for thought for designers and marketers of Ubuntu and Gnome ... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: A.K.Karthikeyan (mindaslab) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 18:04:46 -0000 Message-Id: <20070904180447.3739.9863.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> We must add voice command recognition to Ubuntu. Windows Vista has got it. It makes people interact with computer a lot easier. Possibly even an illiterate can own a computer if voice commands are possible. Children can use computers before they could goto school, computers can behave like teachers teaching children to speak, and so on............ Possibilities are limitless. Refer this blueprint URL : https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/spoken-system-and-voice- command --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Saivann Carignan (oxmosys) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 19:48:53 -0000 Message-Id: <46DDB6A5.4090208@gmail.com> I agree! Voice command recognition is a important step to bring Linux Ubuntu more easy to use for anyone. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: ThyMythos (thymythos) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 10:05:50 -0000 Message-Id: <20070910100551.6463.4212.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I think this bug should be a differentiated into: 1. "Microsoft has a majority market share in buissness servers" - I DO NOT agree in this! 2. "Microsoft has a majority market share in buissness desktops" - I think this is true, although I'm not so familiar with it. IBM is a good example that it's maybe not true everywhere. - What can we do about it? I think this is the most difficult part of the bug. 3. "Microsoft has a majority market share in government desktops" - At least here in Germany this is about to change. Have a look at Munich for example. 4. "Microsoft has a majority market share in personal desktops" - This is the most severe part of the bug. - What can we do about it? The problem is, I think, the ordinary desktop user wants to buy a computer that just works and is cheap. Linux is great for that, but unfortunatly a lot of cheap hardware does not work under linux and no manufacturer is going to change that, because it's not the cheap hardware they make money with. 5. "Microsoft has a majority market share for hardcore gamers" - This is true - What can we do about it? Hardcore gamers buy the latest and most expensive hardware, so if gamers wanted to play under linux, manufacturers would have to deal with it. So how can we convince gamers to play under linux? My idea would be to set up live-DVDs with one or more games that already work perfectly under linux and distribute them at LAN-partys. By this, the gamers would realize how easy it is to play games together without having to install the same patchlevel of a game everywhere. It s more like playing on a console: Just put the DVD in and start the computer. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Stephan van Ingen (stephanvaningen) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:06:38 -0000 Message-Id: On 9/10/07, ThyMythos wrote: > > I think this bug should be a differentiated into: > > 1. "Microsoft has a majority market share in buissness servers" > > - I DO NOT agree in this! This has nothing to do with 'agree' or not: just do the math. Of course, parameters and interpretation can be an issue: 'number of servers' of 'number of end-users attached to a server (CAL)'? Maybe checking for mainframe or midrange adding in the math would give another end-result: but I think we must not take that into accound and just count the 'pizza-box-alike servers in a rack with AMD/intel or other kind of hardware' where Microsoft *can* be installed. So to change the first sentence from "Microsoft has a majority market share in buissness servers" to "Microsoft has a majority market share in bussiness servers on which Microsoft software *can* be installed", that is true. 2. "Microsoft has a majority market share in buissness desktops" > > - I think this is true, although I'm not so familiar with it. IBM is a > good example that it's maybe not true everywhere. > > - What can we do about it? I think this is the most difficult part of > the bug. > > 3. "Microsoft has a majority market share in government desktops" > > - At least here in Germany this is about to change. Have a look at > Munich for example. > > 4. "Microsoft has a majority market share in personal desktops" > > - This is the most severe part of the bug. > > - What can we do about it? The problem is, I think, the ordinary desktop > user wants to buy a computer that just works and is cheap. Linux is > great for that, but unfortunatly a lot of cheap hardware does not work > under linux and no manufacturer is going to change that, because it's > not the cheap hardware they make money with. > > 5. "Microsoft has a majority market share for hardcore gamers" > > - This is true > > - What can we do about it? Hardcore gamers buy the latest and most > expensive hardware, so if gamers wanted to play under linux, > manufacturers would have to deal with it. So how can we convince gamers > to play under linux? My idea would be to set up live-DVDs with one or > more games that already work perfectly under linux and distribute them > at LAN-partys. By this, the gamers would realize how easy it is to play > games together without having to install the same patchlevel of a game > everywhere. It s more like playing on a console: Just put the DVD in and > start the computer. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --=20 http://stephanvaningen.net stephanvaningen@gmail.com -- --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: MarianoAbsatz (el-baby) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 16:33:41 -0000 Message-Id: <20070915163341.22868.93781.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Apparently, not only Microsoft is involved, but also Ford... see the attached picture... (Sorry, couldn't resist it) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?q?Joseph_Pich=C3=A9_=28josephpiche=29?= Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:30:13 -0000 Message-Id: <20070919153013.19700.78867.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> As much as a do wish Ubuntu has a larger userbase, I cringe when I read this bug report. Microsoft having a majority market share is not a bug. This is something that in no way effects how ubuntu works or functions. If it was anyone else who filed this "bug" it would have been marked as invalid. Example: I file a bug that "3D graphics doesn't work without proprietary ati drivers" it would immediately be marked as invalid and told to go write a better opensource driver. I hope someone else understands. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Stephan van Ingen (stephanvaningen) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 21:29:12 -0000 Message-Id: I understand your opinion; but I don't think that we have to look at this as a bug, in the literal sence of the word, it's just that it must have a forum-space 'somewhere'... and this is it: at bug#1... On 9/19/07, Joseph Piche wrote: > > As much as a do wish Ubuntu has a larger userbase, I cringe when I read > this bug report. > > Microsoft having a majority market share is not a bug. This is something > that in no way effects how ubuntu works or functions. If it was anyone > else who filed this "bug" it would have been marked as invalid. > > Example: I file a bug that "3D graphics doesn't work without proprietary > ati drivers" it would immediately be marked as invalid and told to go > write a better opensource driver. > > I hope someone else understands. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --=20 http://stephanvaningen.net stephanvaningen@gmail.com -- --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: franganghi (joered) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 22:45:47 -0000 Message-Id: <20070919224547.19751.62956.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> > Microsoft having a majority market share is not a bug. This is something > that in no way effects how ubuntu works or functions. Yes, you're right but [Bug 1] affects MS users, not the gnu/linux Ubuntu OS! We must remember that people who are reading this comments are already list= ed somewhere in a home workstation passwd file! The effects of the bug are individually tangible and can be marked as bugs,= but we can't create an istance of the bug report system to trace user's is= sue! So, the BUG 1 - in this prospective - is just a way for us to say ourselves= "Ok, we are not affected by any bug because we're using Ubuntu (or any oth= er kind of gnu/linux kernel based distribution): now we have to work to und= erstand the reasons why other "humans" are still affected by such a strange= kind of bug we used to call MS, and finally we MUST craete a patch.". And what do i mean by "patch"? How can we patch an "human"? I simply mean future releases such as 7.10, 8.04, 8.10 ans so on... This is just what humans can do for other humans in a cooperation based evo= lutive environment. PS - Excuse me for my bad english. rif: [manifest] Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'Humanity to others', or 'I am what I am = because of who we all are'. The Ubuntu distribution brings the spirit of Ubuntu to the software world. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: A.K.Karthikeyan (mindaslab) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 04:01:57 -0000 Message-Id: <20070920040157.19751.99563.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I think this is the ultimate FOSS and Free and open source hardware nirvana https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-processor --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: jawahar (ijawahar) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:58:18 -0000 Message-Id: <20070921125818.20191.12191.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Has Ubuntu considered hallway usability testing? http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000043.html --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Diego Viola (diego-viola-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 06:35:52 -0000 Message-Id: <20070922063552.15978.67782.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Hi I have a story to tell, today I went to eat pizza with my friends to the shopping and there was a cybercafe inside the shopping... I went there and saw like 8 computers, 7 of them had old versions of windows installed and one had Linux with KDE 3, a woman was using the Linux/KDE 3 computer and I was looking how she was using it, she was using that computer really happily without any problems at all... I was really happy to see that and I can't wait to see more people using Linux/KDE computers like that, I was thinking to offer my help to them and when KDE 4 is out to install Linux/KDE 4 in some/all of their computers, that will be awesome :) BTW, I live in Asunci=C3=B3n - Paraguay. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Rob Haag (rhaag71) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 13:01:34 -0000 Message-Id: <20070922130134.6735.28391.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> This bug is affecting me in a big way for months. Heres the story: I enrolled into a Software Development program at major Community College here in Columbus, Ohio. I'm sure this happens at other institutions too. The problem is this, last semester I registered for 3 classes. I finished one, and it has not much to do with coding, Business Management 101. First I tried to start my beginning algebra class, it is a hybrid, mostly web based with a once a week class meeting. I was promptly informed that I will need to use Adobe Flash and MS Internet Explorer, No problem! Yeah right, after creating the work-a-rounds I made further progress into the web site only to be stopped by a message informing me that they only allow users with MS Windows, no go here! I ended up dropping the class and losing my money. My other class, Intro to Operating Systems turned out to be 99% based on, you guessed it, MS crap. To make things even worse they made little mention of Linux or Mac and when they did they portrayed them both to be of old useless (to the 'normal' user) technology. Linux was said to be mainly for servers and has little use on the Desktop. Mac OS was said to be it's own Operating System invented by apple and all they taught was a little abouts it's GUI, never a mention that it is a Unix (now officially) and no mention of any other OS's either. Oh, except for MS-DOS how could I forget. This is quite irritating to me, I paid good money to go to school and learn something, not be fed BS by someone who is, in my opinion, not even qualified (maybe she is on paper, I don't even know) to teach this subject anyhow. I thought I was enrolled to learn how to program, code, be innovative even. Not here, I am quite disappointed. This semester has just started this week, and guess what? More of the same story only this time with a little different description, lets see....The little one credit beginning HTML class, which is web based, tells me that I MUST use MS Windows XP (quite specific) and all assignments must be written using MS's Notepad, I don't think they would know the difference if I use Gedit, but thats not the point. The 'PC Applications' course, well it's mis-titled, should be MS Office. And I also decided to abort the second attempt at the math and OS classes, futile. I just want to learn to program, and not for MS. Maybe, since I am already broke, I should just dedicate my time to open source projects and forget the degree until I can afford to not use MS, thats a twist! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Rob Haag (rhaag71) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 13:48:39 -0000 Message-Id: <20070922134839.6735.84048.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I forgot to mention, I did make 3 converts through my class and passed out about 5 CDs. One guy I have confirmed made the total transition and became a true lover of Linux saying "I'll never go back" --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Manatsawin Hanmongkolchai (whs) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 12:58:44 -0000 Message-Id: <20070923125845.15978.43439.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Here, Thailand. Many computers sell with Windows in past but now, some of them don't load any OS and some are loaded Linux(Acer sells PCs and laptops running Windows,Linux and no OS but the Linux and no OS PC or notebook when go to dealer, they install warez Windows on it) but many dealer and users install warez Windows on it. 3 years ago there is "Computer Ear Ar Thorn"("Ear Ar Thorn" in Thai is usually use to translated "ubuntu" in to Thai) campaign from the previous PM(dr. thaksin shinnawat) which NECTEC installed LinuxTLE(Thai linux distribution based on Mandrake then Redmond then Fedora then Ubuntu, for now it is 8.0) 5.5 based on Fedora core but many users(including me, I use Linux for only 5 months) install warez Windows on it. (I like its keyboard, no Micro$uck logo on it :) ) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Dmitry Agafonov (dmitry-agafonov) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:44:34 -0000 Message-Id: <20070924104434.1976.47115.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Let me propose the way to see the progress: http://www.google.com/trends?q=3Dubuntu%2C+windows nothing special, but it shows up constant evolution. In fact REvolution is needed to solve the bug #1 in reasonable time... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: David Vasta (david-vasta) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 15:13:31 -0000 Message-Id: <20070924151332.1926.65901.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Agafonov - Nice little tid bit of info. I like it. Only one problem. Maybe all the Windows users are using Microsoft Live not and not Google since it's so good....LOL. I am kidding. I think we are winning the battle. I do small PC work on the side and have had to help people with Vista. Let me say. Not my favorite OS, never was, but it's pretty sad. So these people with Vista are not liking it much either. They all want to move back 6 years to XP. So I ask them what they use their computer for. These people are not power users, they are just people at home with a laptop or desktop. Most of them say Email. Web, Photos, and some light office task. Bingo. Ubuntu is in. Out of the last 7 - 10 Vista users I have converted 2 people to Ubuntu. I think that's a good start and I have two others who are thinking about it. I think if they have to pay me another $50 to come show them how to do something they used to know how to do in XP it's going to kill them. I told them as well, Ubuntu support from me is free. While I charge $50 an hour for Windows support, I do not charge anything for Linux or MacOSX support. I do have my limits but I am willing to take one for the team in order to help people just use their computers not fight with them. I would encourage all of you to do this if you make some scratch helping people with PCs. While I know the Ubuntu and MacOSX because I want to, I think people should have to pay for the information I retain because it helps pay the bills and it is just bad karma owning something that does not work. That is enough Blah Blah Blah from me. Long live Ubuntu. Help everyone for FREE and spread the love. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Balaam's Miracle (balaam-balaamsmiracle) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:03:10 -0000 Message-Id: <20070925100310.5548.2550.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Possible partial fix, proposed by a EU thinktank: http://www.globalisation.eu/briefings/competition-policy/unbundling- microsoft-windows-200709231241/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Pyper (jpyper) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:11:56 -0000 Message-Id: <20070928101156.31905.53128.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> This bug is easily reproducible in Washington State[1], USA. I live in Kent[2], WA, which is about 20 or so miles south of Redmond[3]. In all this land, the bug is so critical that upon attempting to fix it gets you shunned in your own workplace. When Gutsy Gibbon[4] is officially released in October, I'm going to send a plea to Canonical[5] to ship me 500 gutsy-desktop CDs and 50 gutsy-server CDs. I find it my top priority to relinquish Microsoft's stronghold here and give the end users who buy new PCs or build something from old parts a choice and a chance to try Ubuntu. This will let them see that there's more of a choice available, and best of all, IT'S FREE! When was the last time Microsoft just willingly sent a CD with their operating system on it to anyone without charging them something for it? I've never heard of anything like that. Canonical makes it easy for anyone to get a copy of Ubuntu with their ShipIt[6] site. It may take a few weeks to get the disc, but once you have it, you run Ubuntu either directly from the CD without harming your system, or you can get the best out of Ubuntu by installing it to the hard drive. [1]: http://wa.gov/ [2]: http://www.ci.kent.wa.us/ [3]: http://redmond.gov/ [4]: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon [5]: http://canonical.com/ [6]: https://shipit.ubuntu.com/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Redd (djc-oakley) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:07:19 -0000 Message-Id: <20070928180719.11640.74039.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I agree with what you say. We should have the right to buy a PC and install what OS we want. At least have the choice. But do we? NO. What is our choice? Micro$oft. People that has been around computers for awhile know there is a choice of an OS's that is MUCH better than Micro$soft as for security. I find there is a lot of people here in Quebec, Canada that are still in the dark that don't know Ubuntu exists. More and more people are buying pc's even old generations are getting into computing. And all they know is there is Micro$soft.Why? Cause nobody will tell them there is a choice. Even in schools is there anything other than Micro$oft installed on there machines? I don't know any. Its ALL Micro$soft. Personally I think Ubuntu is a great place for schools to use instead of Micro$soft. I am totally new to Ubuntu and lot's to learn. But I think it is 100% worth it! And with that I will stop now and thank ALL the people who helped develop Ubuntu. Still a few bugs, but hey its all worth it in the end. :-) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?q?=C3=89tienne_BERSAC_=28bersace=29?= Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 21:57:08 -0000 Message-Id: <20070930215708.17895.18755.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Hi, The problem occurs also in embedded devices. Luckily, the status is less sucking than in desktop/laptop. See also the good work of opened hand ( http://o-hand.com/ ) and Gnome Mobile initiative ( http://www.gnome.org/mobile/ ). =C3=89tienne. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Matt Rossi (matthew-penguincentral) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 12:30:44 -0000 Message-Id: <20071001123044.9536.25685.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> it is quite funny how Microsoft is bug no 1 in Ubuntu :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Erico Schuch (eschuch) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 04:01:37 -0000 Message-Id: <20071002040137.23615.41424.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> This is not a bug at all, but the result of many bugs, as folow: 1 - Market place is dominated by money. 2 - The governament (at least in Brazil) make rules "far from the people's = eyes" in deteriment of the lobby power. 3 - The consumer is used to use windows. 4 - The saler push the OS price to the consumer. 5 - The consumer acept the price for its convenience. So, to fix eatch previus bugs, you must: 1 - The market place will always be ruled by the money. Ther is no fix for it at all; 2 - Push the lobby power to Linux way, using money to pay to the politician= s to approve laws that increases the use of Linux. Note: At least in Brazil, and its may seems to be contraditory, but the g= overnament has expecial financial credit lines to computer(desktop and note= books) that is sell with Linux, also has rules to incentivate the use of li= nux on public department. Also the ABNT (Brazilian Agency of Tecnical Stand= arts[free translation]) just aproved the use of the OFD as a official Brasi= lian Documents Standart. So the use of lobby culd be very low; 3 - Get the final user to be used to use linux, starting at school the use o linux, using the fix number 2, aproving laws that is mandatory or high recomended the use of Linux on schools, not only public, but private also; 4 - To fix bug #4 need a small explanation: If you buy a computer and it has a OEM install of Windows, if you don't acc= ept the terms (http://www.microsoft.com/brasil/windowsxp/pro/eula.mspx), yo= u receive a ~U$50 refund back referring the licence price. Making comercial= that show this diference, requesting people that buy computer with Windows= OEM pre-instaled to not accept the terms and ask the manufactory to give t= he money back, will pushing the manufactory industrial to give free softwar= e on its computers; 5 - It's fixed using all the above fixes. Its is a long way to fix this bug, but can be done. Also, to increase the speed of fixing this bug, the folow things can be done (no order at all): 1 - Call to "agency against piracy" and relate all the piracy of your city = and ask to them to execute some action against it. Note: This seens to be a extremus act, but you are just helping the use of = Linux, as it is FREE. 2 - Companies that sale computer with Linux (or the cosumer that purchase the computer) culd receve a ~U$50 back per licence, with they still using linux after a year, with all the updates. Canonical, Ibm,HP, Sun, Google (why not?), Red Hat and others can rise a fund to it. 3 - Make a Standard. Yes, make a standard. All this companies (Ibm, Sun, HP etc), witch one running to one direction. Why they don't stop pushing Linux to all direction and starting to push Linux to ONE direction? For example, IBM can sale a expecific program to run on a sistem, but the system is the same for the HP products. Ok be open, but better run together. 4 - To impruve or in a better way, to unify a certification program. Put LPI, IBM, HP, Sun, Canonical, Debian, Red Hat, Mandrake, DELL, Apple (why not?), Gnome, XFCE4, Apache, Samba, OpenLDAP, OpenOffice, Gimp, Kernel.org, *BSDs, and many many others that make all the GNU exist, make a BIG and together certify program, mabe making tousands of diferent certs. but all in the same program, and make it free! 5 - At the same time, all this companies are make comercial of linux. Put a video on television showing ubuntu+compiz, showing giants companies server with Linux (GNU), helping other companies to make "Get the REAL facts" with GNU. And show it on many pages on internet. Google can help it! Please companies, don't only USE linux. HELP LINUX to get BETTER ! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, this is the bug fix. Its long, its hard, and its is expensive. And it= may not work at all. Note: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE sorry about my TERRIBLE POOR English. I'm not a native English spoken, and I'm not using it in a long time. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: usr (usrlp-deactivatedaccount-deactivatedaccount) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 03:10:54 -0000 Message-Id: <20071005031055.27267.36577.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I fixed this bug with K/Ubuntu Dapper (Since October 2006 I use Kubuntu, KD= E is fantastic). Until 2004 I used different ditributinos, but with living Windows always. I= n June 2006 (thanks to Dapper) I can use the machine with a big family of u= sers (the community), and helpping to Ubuntu and to free software with my s= mall help. GNU/Linux it is not an O.S., it is THE O.S. Thank you for Kubuntu, O.S. of the future now! And the O.S. of the humannit= y! P.S: Excuse my bad English. :-S --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: RasEpsilon (epsilon-meb) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 18:23:39 -0000 Message-Id: <20071007182339.15172.39823.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Don't mind my pessimism... but Microsoft has a market share because it gave away its OS in the early stages. I hope, and I'm sure we all hope that the FreeOS movement doesnt go the same way. Somebody said it before... that the average person doesnt know about linux... We need to get to the stage where every box shipped has (at least) a dual boot setup.. win/linux Ises. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: darx (rabidphage) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 10:27:55 -0000 Message-Id: <20071009102755.20346.84169.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> This bug is viral. This bug should be named the MRSA (Microsoft's Rampant Software Atrocity) bug. My family is thankfully immunized. As it stands now, the normal FLOSSa isn't powerful enough against this pathogen. A power diet of FLOSS is recommended. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Paul Flint (flint) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 12:55:03 -0000 Message-Id: Dear Darx, FLOSSing regularly is good for you and your family's health. Regards, Flint On Tue, 9 Oct 2007, darx wrote: > Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 10:27:55 -0000 > From: darx > Reply-To: Bug 1 <1@bugs.launchpad.net> > To: flint@flint.com > Subject: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > This bug is viral. This bug should be named the MRSA (Microsoft's > Rampant Software Atrocity) bug. My family is thankfully immunized. As it > stands now, the normal FLOSSa isn't powerful enough against this > pathogen. A power diet of FLOSS is recommended. > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > /************************************ Paul Flint 17 Averill Street Barre, VT 05641 http://www.flint.com/home skype: flintinfotech Work: (202) 537-0480 Fax: (703) 852-7089 Free advice .~. is worth /V\ exactly what /( )\ you pay for it. ^^-^^ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Gaspard Leon (gaspard.leon) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:36:04 -0000 Message-Id: <20071010023604.9382.88294.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I recommend a refreshing trend view: http://www.google.com/trends?q=3Dwindows+vista%2C+ubuntu&ctab=3D0&geo=3Dall= &date=3Dall&sort=3D0 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Richard Elkins (texadactyl) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:46:21 -0000 Message-Id: <20071013144621.22272.36980.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Gaspard, That is only "search volume" in the Y-axis in the Google link. I'd love to see what actual installation volumes of non-techies are. I know that Windows is still way ahead but the trends would be interesting to note, especially in Europe. Right now, I have converted 3 non-techie families from Windows and M$ Office (illegal copies, of course) to Ubuntu + OpenOffice (100% legal). It wasn't easy. They had to re-learn everything (painful) and they lost significant application functionality (E,g, Photoshop. Do *not* mention Gimp; they find it very difficult). It was almost as difficult as learning a new Human language. However, in the end, bye bye Windows 98/2000/XP and .......................= ..... * no laws are broken * no virii * no ad creepies * very stable * very fast =20 * more vendor choices They were all delighted at how easy USB devices plug in and just work as ea= sy as Windows.=20 I just had to convert all of their office docs with the automated tool....n= ot too bad. So, there is hope. Probably, Europeans are more adventurous and more likel= y to buck the US monopolistic trends. Qu'est-ce qu'on fais alors? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 15:15:46 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0710130815q73e57f7p683146ed7965ec8d@mail.gmail.com> Well done Richard, a step... Look at Richard's comments re: converting docs, and Photoshop, note that G-Thumb image viewer will do most things that most users need and is part of the UBUNTU package, http://gthumb.sourceforge.net BUT: the real demon in this picture is best described on GROKLAW, namely: Groklaw - Patent Infringement Lawsuit Filed Against Red Hat & Novell - Just Like Ballmer Predicted So. It's all about Patents and the wildly outdated Patent Office(US) Microsoft has used the USPO for it's extreme financial pleasure, yes, it's all about money and greed ! Allen On 10/13/07, Richard Elkins wrote: > > Gaspard, > > That is only "search volume" in the Y-axis in the Google link. I'd love > to see what actual installation volumes of non-techies are. I know that > Windows is still way ahead but the trends would be interesting to note, > especially in Europe. > > Right now, I have converted 3 non-techie families from Windows and M$ > Office (illegal copies, of course) to Ubuntu + OpenOffice (100% legal). > It wasn't easy. They had to re-learn everything (painful) and they lost > significant application functionality (E,g, Photoshop. Do *not* mention > Gimp; they find it very difficult). It was almost as difficult as > learning a new Human language. > > However, in the end, bye bye Windows 98/2000/XP and > ............................ > * no laws are broken > * no virii > * no ad creepies > * very stable > * very fast > * more vendor choices > > They were all delighted at how easy USB devices plug in and just work as > easy as Windows. > I just had to convert all of their office docs with the automated > tool....not too bad. > > So, there is hope. Probably, Europeans are more adventurous and more > likely to buck the US monopolistic trends. > Qu'est-ce qu'on fais alors? > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --=20 http://www.flickr.com/photos/olsneezy/sets/ try the "slideshow" --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Nicola Piovesan (piovesannicola) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:06:54 -0000 Message-Id: <20071015130654.13871.62696.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Here in Italy this bug is very spread because a lot of people don't know GNU/Linux and because is very difficult to buy a PC without Windows. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: ionospheric (berthold1) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 19:40:02 -0000 Message-Id: <20071015194002.22272.53321.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> The bug will be fixed once most people come to the conclusion that it is better for them to run Ubuntu rather than Windows, and have the ability to do so. LiveCDs, OpenOffice, and Mozilla have been very helpful in that regard. Microsoft has also helped out nicely by introducing the "activation" feature and by secretly installing updates on people's computers, even when automatic updating was turned off. Today, I spent an hour trying to print a Web page under Windows to a PDF and gave up because it was crashing. Within the same amount of time, I installed Gutsy RC and all updates on a different computer and printed to PDF with the included CUPS-PDF driver, without any problems. That's what I mean by "better".. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Baloon (reachbaloon) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 14:10:38 -0000 Message-Id: <20071017141039.15699.83898.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Hi Generally people always look for some thing out of the box.. What ever it may be. OS is also the same. MS have a strategy of giving whatever people want and they get good backup also from all the Equipment manufacturers. It is a fact that OS and drivers will grow by complimenting each other. meaning, Equipment manufacturer will develop their drivers for most popular OS and people will prefer to buy OS which has more driver support - out of the box. This is the basic strategy. In case of linux it is not possible - meaning we cannot have a single linux to which every one 'should' focus on. I guess once the Linux driver project comes to a stable level, things will improve. The way Kernel is being developed, if drivers are also going to be a central development team, then all the flavours can take the drivers project and attach to their distribution. The difference is going to be only look and feel - but still compatibility and all will be much better. I like linux - b'se it gives tremendous opportunity for people to learn invent and grow ... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Baloon (reachbaloon) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 14:13:55 -0000 Message-Id: <20071017141355.15699.80849.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> =20 You cannot fix this bug b'se linux is there because windows is there. and it is going to be there. if windows is not there there will be some thing else because linux is there !!!! lets wait till google comes up with their OS .. I read some where that g= oogle is going to come with an OS by 2010 .. not sure how true it is ... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Stephan van Ingen (stephanvaningen) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 15:23:08 -0000 Message-Id: Great, 1/2 My sister had Windows problems, again. Installed release-candidate of 7.10 ... great! all worked fine, out of the box. No questions like "and can I do word processing now?" (answer: pre-installed), "can I watch movies now?" (answer: pre-installed) "can I look mpeg's from my digi-cam now?" (pre-installed)... 2/2 Can Canonical or someone else design mail-signatures to attach? I'ld like to send a mail with a great footer like "I'm a satisfied Ubuntu user!" -> That keeps the discussion going 'on the field'. I'm sure my sister would love to have that same email-signature on her outgoing mails, at least better than the yahoo-ad-banners linking to useless commercial wesites. Stephan. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: maruscia (maruscia) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 17:25:19 -0000 Message-Id: <4716457F.2090503@maruscia.it> I think this would be very useful, or, as you said, at least better than many of the .com ad-footers around. Stephanvaningen wrote: > 2/2 Can Canonical or someone else design mail-signatures to attach? I'ld > like to send a mail with a great footer like "I'm a satisfied Ubuntu user= !" > -> That keeps the discussion going 'on the field'. I'm sure my sister wou= ld > love to have that same email-signature on her outgoing mails, at least > better than the yahoo-ad-banners linking to useless commercial wesites. >=20 > Stephan. >=20 --=20 Mara Sorella maruscia@maruscia.it ~ maruscia@azzurra.org ------------------------------------------- Linux registered user # 456178 Ubuntu registered user # 17944 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: gunashekar (gunashekar) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 07:52:04 -0000 Message-Id: <20071018075204.31928.99392.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Some steps in the bugfix: 1. develop a laptop version=20 2. rework the distribution strategy to include a separate team working with= hardware manufacturers making it attractive for them to offer Ubuntu only = products 3. Use serious market research=20 4. build a community team for publicity publishing more wows 5. consider extending UBUNTU brand to Hardware products or develop a relate= d Hardware brand , products and company I would love to volunteer on a Market Research team bcos that happens to be= my profession I would love to devote the rest of my career working for a hardware company= marketing Servers, Desktops, laptops and accessories promoting something l= ike ubuntu --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Stephan van Ingen (stephanvaningen) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:06:16 -0000 Message-Id: Great! I hope someone who has organisational authority in canonical or in ubuntu comunity picks this up! I would also love to give end-user support in a user-support group: I did subscribe myself in an Ubuntu-site where I could leave my co=C3=B6rdinates on a a Google-map for other people to conta= ct me for installing Ubuntu or giving some initial end-user support, but there's no response: maybe these channels need to be marketed as well as a part of one bigger marketing strategy! BUT let it never rule the technology: it needs to co-exist next to, not on top of the current communities which create this great range of quality software On 10/18/07, Gunashekar wrote: > > Some steps in the bugfix: > 1. develop a laptop version > 2. rework the distribution strategy to include a separate team working > with hardware manufacturers making it attractive for them to offer Ubuntu > only products > 3. Use serious market research > 4. build a community team for publicity publishing more wows > 5. consider extending UBUNTU brand to Hardware products or develop a > related Hardware brand , products and company > > I would love to volunteer on a Market Research team bcos that happens to > be my profession > I would love to devote the rest of my career working for a hardware > company marketing Servers, Desktops, laptops and accessories promoting > something like ubuntu > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --=20 http://stephanvaningen.net stephanvaningen@gmail.com Tired of Windows bugs? I am a happy www.ubuntu.com user -- --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Paul Flint (flint) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 23:48:17 -0000 Message-Id: Greetings List Lurkers, I just tried to hook up and older gentleman with one of the charity=20 systems we built from the state surplus stuff. The system boots Ubuntu=20 6.10 Dapper Drake. The verizon Westell DSL access modem comes up with=20 three lights. The system gets an IP address and a web page comes up.=20 Technically the system is cherry. Then a Verizon web page appears and tells me that it cannot support this=20 operating system, and when I call their support desk, they tell me that I=20 have to use a Windows client or a Mac client. I thought the Carphone case allowed me choice in my telecommunications=20 options. Why would I want this company to be able to sell this crapy=20 backwards technical system to Fairpoint? What can I do to help this old guy get online? Regards, Flint /************************************ Paul Flint Barre Open Systems Institute 17 Averill Street Barre, VT 05641 http://www.bosivt.org http://www.flint.com/home skype: flintinfotech Work: (202) 537-0480 Fax: (703) 852-7089 Free advice .~. is worth /V\ exactly what /( )\ you pay for it. ^^-^^ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Wolfram Riedel (taisto-web) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:51:59 -0000 Message-Id: <4718A86F.8080903@web.de> Paul Flint schrieb: > I just tried to hook up and older gentleman with one of the charity=20 > systems we built from the state surplus stuff. The system boots Ubuntu=20 > 6.10 Dapper Drake. The verizon Westell DSL access modem comes up with=20 > three lights. The system gets an IP address and a web page comes up.=20 > Technically the system is cherry. >=20 > Then a Verizon web page appears and tells me that it cannot support this = > operating system, and when I call their support desk, they tell me that I= =20 > have to use a Windows client or a Mac client. >=20 > I thought the Carphone case allowed me choice in my telecommunications=20 > options. Why would I want this company to be able to sell this crapy=20 > backwards technical system to Fairpoint? >=20 > What can I do to help this old guy get online? Maybe this blog entry will help you out: http://www.bensdrivel.com/?p=3D142 Really a pity some telcos are still that unflexible. Greetings, Wolfram Happy Ubuntu User from Berlin, Germany --=20 Wolfram Riedel http://wolframswebworld.de "Wer Sicherheit der Freiheit vorzieht ist zu Recht ein Sklave." -- Aristoteles --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Thangalin (thangalin-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 09:04:57 -0000 Message-Id: <20071020090457.15802.95885.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Linux, specifically Ubuntu, has seen an amazing amount of progress. But Microsoft has nothing to worry about, and I will explain why. The reason is in the mindset of its developers, and their ignorant dischord with my piano teacher. My piano teacher is 86 years old. He is a brilliant pianist; he is also smart, witty, warm, charismatic, and an absolute computer novice. He uses Mac (OS X) for e-mail, web browsing, printing photos from his digital camera, and video conferencing with his friends in the United States. I regret that as we exchanged piano lessons for computer lessons we did not record the latter, as to see computers through his eyes was as illuminating an experience for me as it was to be immersed in his world of music. I will now recount an experience I had while upgrading from 7.04 to 7.10. This is not to demonstrate bugs in the install process, nor to have people retort, "Oh, we can fix that." The bugs in Linux (and Ubuntu) run much deeper than a poorly resizing window, or a misconfigured button. Intertwined, I will give you an example of the questions my piano teacher would ask me during the upgrade. These questions do not need answers; they serve to exemplify his hypothetical first impressions of Ubuntu. [UPGRADE] A window appears entitled, "Configuration File Change". TEACHER: What is a Configuration File? [UPGRADE] Inside this window reads a message, "Replace the customized configuration file '/etc/default/apache2'? You will lose any changes you have made to this configuration file if you choose to replace it with a newer version." TEACHER: What does /etc/default/apache2 mean? TEACHER: What is apache2? TEACHER: We don't want to lose any changes, do we? [UPGRADE] Click "Show Difference". The screen shows: "22:13:18.000000000000 -0700 +++ ath0^NO CARRIER", or some such garbly gook. TEACHER: ...? [UPGRADE] The window is resized to see the full diff. Even I would prefer to see a colour-coded side-by-side comparison, rather than a dump suitable for patch'ing. But there is an even better option, which I'll suggest later. I confirm the changes. The next time the same window appears, the sizing is all messed up. Strange. At this point my teacher would not get frustrated, but would be woefully confused, and probably feel a little on the dense side. Let me reiterate: he is far from stupid. Advanced users might want to see a diff of configuration files. Power users might want to see just the lines removed and the lines added. Regular users would rather a backup copy made and be done with it. Novice users would rather not have to think about configuration files -- ever. You get the idea. Here's one way to fix it. Give the user three choices at installation (or upgrade): 1. Easy (i.e., Just Do It) 2. Medium (i.e., Tweak Some Details) 3. Advanced (i.e., Ultimate Power) Easy (the default option) means "do the right thing". Make a backup of files that are about to be changed, and subsequently change them without pestering the user. Automatically partitioning the drive in an intelligent fashion (/, /home, swap, /tmp, and maybe /usr or /opt). Do not pose questions like "Replace the customized configuration file '/etc/default/apache2'?" My piano teacher would like nothing more than the limited time he spends in front of his machine to be easy and productive. If you bright folks can make an operating system that even my piano teacher can use, then piano teachers will use it. And gradeschool teachers, and dance teachers, and English majors, and stay-at-home parents, and cheerleaders, and even football players. This "mindset" (for lack of a better term) is everywhere. I removed a harddrive a few months ago. Each time I reboot, my system constantly complains about a missing harddrive. I have to press CONTROL-D to continue the boot process. Why does it ask me this ... every single time? (The question is rhetorical, by the way.) Such behaviour stems from not understanding the needs of average users, and even average software developers. An understanding that Microsoft had, long ago. Something which most developers who write Open Source Software are aware of, yet do nothing about. When developing software, ask, "Would this confuse a piano teacher?" Or, "Is this simple enough for a piano teacher?" When the answer is "no" to the first and "yes" to the second, Microsoft will have cause to worry. Keep up the great work, you're definitely on the road to get ahead of Microsoft. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Saivann Carignan (oxmosys) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 17:49:55 -0000 Message-Id: <20071020174955.18045.2361.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I share your point of view, in a deeper way! I think that the idea of creating a option into Ubuntu that would give choice between "Expert" and "Beginner" would be very interesting. When people would choose "Expert", a lot of more advanced options could appear in Ubuntu Apps and the system would ask more "technical" questions while it would not if the user choosed "Beginner". Maybe that this idea is not necessary yet but could be interesting in the Ubuntu future. It may be also very simple to just add a more comprehensive dialog in that windows during the upgrade process like this "The customized configuration file '/etc/default/apache2' is about to be replaced. This file can contain your preferences and the way you configured one of your programs. If you choose to replace the file by the new one, you may have to configure again this program. Do you want to replace this configuration file for the new one?" This would be better, and I'm sure we can do much better! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Thangalin (thangalin-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:37:18 -0000 Message-Id: <20071020193718.17995.86905.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Hi, Sa=C3=AFvann Carignan. You wrote: "It may be also very simple to just add a more comprehensive dialog in that windows during the upgrade process like this "The customized configuration file '/etc/default/apache2' is about to be replaced. This file can contain your preferences and the way you configured one of your programs. If you choose to replace the file by the new one, you may have to configure again this program. Do you want to replace this configuration file for the new one?"" This is the off-kilter mindset I was trying to explain throughout my post. The words "configuration file" have no meaning to a novice user. Novice users know nothing of Apache, or grep, or gij, or kernels, or vertical refresh rates, or /var/logs, or xterm ... and nor should they! You can explain up the wahzoo what "configuration file" means. You can explain what "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" means. (1) People don't care. (2) People want something that "just works". (3) It wastes their time. (4) People should not need to know. (5) People abhor technical minutia. There is nothing you can do, nothing at all, to make that "Configuration File Changed" window correct. The whole idea behind it is fundamentally flawed. And it's the idea that gave birth to such a window that underlies the mindset I am trying to highlight. That mindset needs to grow, must shift from a focus on the needs of the technical elite to the needs of the novice -- without forgetting the us uber-geeks. It's a challenge. It won't be easy. But you folks are clever. Do you understand? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: xyzt1234 (xyzt1234) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 21:43:06 -0000 Message-Id: <20071020214306.18045.62647.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Thangalin, yes... having spent most a day trying to figure out what was wrong with a recent install, instead of doing what I'm expected for, and although I'm sure I even could fix the thing -- if at least I knew where to start, I agree with you. And I've been around computers before configuration files existed. It just happens I have things that must be done and that's that, no dilly-dallying with figuring out the system any more. Although I also remember many things that don't work with The Other OS. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: D. Brodzik (amyrose) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:01:09 -0000 Message-Id: <20071023170110.24713.84076.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Yeah, no change here in Wisconsin. Most computer shops here have never heard of Linux. :( --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Daryl Lublink (dlublink) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:23:21 -0000 Message-Id: <20071023172321.10376.13434.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I think that this bug should not be a seperate bug, it appears to be a system of several other bugs: 1. Hardware compatibility with Linux ( there is still a lot, albeit less, h= ardware that is not supported. The video out on my laptop is one example ) 2. Software compatibility with Linux ( the biggest gapping whole is video g= ames, and the smaller software companies that cannot be bothered to make Li= nux version. The only reason I am using Windows at home is because Nero Vis= ion is not available for Linux, the closest is DVD slideshow, but I cannot = ask my wife to use this software. I recently installed Windows XP for my si= ster in law because her school is teaching them Microsoft office instead of= Openoffice.) 3. Linux startup times ( Fresh Ubuntu install on my laptop takes 2 minutes = + to load whereas a fresh Windows Install takes 45 seconds ). If these three points were address, I could convert everyone I know to Linux in about 22 minutes ( 2 minutes to convince + 20 minutes to install ) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Porfirio (porfirio-ribeiro) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 19:22:17 -0000 Message-Id: <20071023192217.10281.37853.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> >3. Linux startup times ( Fresh Ubuntu install on my laptop takes 2 minutes + to load whereas a fresh Windows Install takes 45 seconds ). Wait a seccond!!! When you fresh install Ubuntu, you are done, you have most of the drivers, you have office, you have image editing software and all that When you fresh install Windows, you dont have nothing, you can even connect to internet or you will get tones of viruz, after half day or more for: Install Grahics driver Install Sound Driver Install Printer Driver=20 Install any other Drivers ( do a bunch of reboots ) Install office ( if is MSOffice it will takes lots more time than if its OO= o ) Install some program for image editing Install Antiviruz Install Firewall Now reboot your computer and tell-me.... Dont it takes LOTS of more time to boot? i BET it does!!! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: D. Brodzik (amyrose) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:27:52 -0000 Message-Id: <200710231527.52402.amyrose1024@gmail.com> On Tuesday, October 23, 2007 02:22:17 pm Porfirio wrote: > >3. Linux startup times ( Fresh Ubuntu install on my laptop takes 2 > > minutes + to load whereas a fresh Windows Install takes 45 seconds ). > > Wait a seccond!!! > > When you fresh install Ubuntu, you are done, you have most of the > drivers, you have office, you have image editing software and all that > > When you fresh install Windows, you dont have nothing, you can even > connect to internet or you will get tones of viruz, after half day or > more for: > > Install Grahics driver > Install Sound Driver > Install Printer Driver > Install any other Drivers > ( do a bunch of reboots ) > Install office ( if is MSOffice it will takes lots more time than if its > OOo ) Install some program for image editing > Install Antiviruz > Install Firewall > > Now reboot your computer and tell-me.... > > Dont it takes LOTS of more time to boot? i BET it does!!! That's a very good point, Porfirio! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: CypherDelic (maik-masling) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 11:01:06 -0000 Message-Id: <20071025110106.20270.70673.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Porfirio: I don't know what your 2 minutes are about, but if i watch the time ubuntu= takes to load, from Loading Grub to Logging On, it is about 2:30 mins, BUT= I need to insert two times LuksCrypt Passphrase (sum up ~ 30 Chars), so th= is at least takes a minute. I guess my mashine will boot up within 1 Minute= without encrypted FS. To go on, showing not to compare apples and oranges:= What about the Services? In my 2:30 minutes all servers, services that i n= eed, have been started. Maybe starting UAC, WGA and all the other piece of = crap on the top of M$ OSes? Additional, please take the time XP or Vista needs from logging in to finished logging in and compare it to Ubuntu. My desktop with Compiz is ready within 6 seconds. Further more according to boot time, what's about restarting in Windows for every little piece of change. I never walked inside a computer store and buyed a computer. I always build= my desktop-pc by myself, indeed it is cheaper at all, because buying over = the internet indeed is cheaper. My friends fear that, because of Guarantee = issues, BUT i can build out every single component and send it back to the = reseller, never had huge problem. More problems i would have if i buy a hol= e PC, neither can i at least open the case because of warranty void. I don'= t really care about manufacturers giving the option for preinstalled Linux,= making it cheaper than the M$-one, but it's definetly a good idea to fix t= his bug. Maybe we could open Bug #2 - Greed has the stranglehold over the w= orld. Every PC-Shop, every Company, not only M$ I'm waiting for the day that I was hunted, because Linux would be illegal. = M$aims on that and money makes the world turn, just a question of the provi= sions of state law.=20 At some point in the future, a small gremium, composed of bribed M$-Friend, or M$-Employees elected by bribed politicans, offically decide "YES, all Linux violate M$-patents" (in fact all they saw was a high amount on their giro) and M$ will found a Anti-Linux-Taskforce. Freedom is our vision. Our vision represents their greatest fear. So be warned, they don't care about anything but their money.=20 Please don't compare Ap-pel with Ubuntu. Ap-pel is intentionally controlled by Billie, from the beginning. Without Ap-pel, M$ would loose all of the cartel treatments, today. They are not really competitors, but linux and M$ are. So keep on fixing this bug, by assuring (that's very easy compared to vista) users and remove NTFS from partition tables. Report bugs, send in translation, help developping or supporting. Thanks. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: CypherDelic (maik-masling) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 11:20:06 -0000 Message-Id: <20071025112007.20270.61914.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> One thing i forget to mention: Most of the people simply haven't got the money to buy proprietary stuff, hardware is expensive enough, energy and food too, those people learn to find cracks on the internet from their first week using M$. They have been constrained for that by an environment, that requieres money for everything. The funny thing is, that M$ became popular by these people, whom now will be hunted. All i saw is that Companies (Power/Gas,Food,etc.) increasing their prices for no adequate reason but profit. Politicans support this, because of the provision they get from these companies to guarantee them profits. Linux is the better OS in any way, claiming for Active Directory, another stranglehold for the IT- World, doesn't convince me. The MAIN reason why I use Linux is, that I am fed up with world-wide corruption and the daily claim, that we are absolutely free. The problem of my, yours and every free opinion has been FIXED by the frames of confession. I think Linux is the ONLY way to take advantage of any freedom. Peace out. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: CypherDelic (maik-masling) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 05:50:20 -0000 Message-Id: <20071026055020.20270.65179.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Another thing that might could help: A lots of people are using notebooks and modern processors like core2duo. I, for example, run 2.6.22-14-amd64-generic... but would't be a tickless kernel be quiete better?! Yes, but it's not available yet for amd64. I tried to install that 2.6.22-14 and recognized that WakeUps are still the same (400-500) and that my nvidia-module wasn't loaded. I checked out the stable 2.6.23 with prepatch 2.6.24 and I got less than 10 Wake-Ups per second. This tickless kernel for amd64 is highly important. Maybe in a short time, you should consider making amd64 the most important release because neither AMD or Intel build 32bit chips anymore. Furthermure I personally recommend to make color reformation for ubuntu, I can't find out why somebody should like orange, it's quiete awful, as I firstly downloaded it, the main point that i was thinking about, was changing themes and colors. So let me sum up a bit: 1. Tickless AMD64 Kernel <--- I thought it should came with gutsy :( 2. Compiz Upgrade / Compiz Profile Presets 3. Speech Recognition <--- This would be amazing. One thing i miss too is the AMD64 support of VBox, i can't manage to instal= l amd64 on the virtual mashine. I rely on it. These four will take us nearer to fix this bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Kristen Thiesen (kthiesen) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 11:58:57 -0000 Message-Id: <20071028115858.28187.10248.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Hello I'm new to the site, so I think a quick presentation is in order. My name is Kristen (a male name in Denmark), I'm 42 years old and I'm married to Marianne. We're both working with IT, Marianne is an IT-consultant/project manager. I'm a partner in a small firm selling IT products to business and private customers. This in mind we have been a bit reluctant to take on Microsoft. We are Microsoft resellers and that is fine for most of our customers right now. This weekend I have been looking at Kubuntu since it's the distribution that looks most like winslows. I think it's important to take the customers by the hand and make baby steps away from the mastodont known as Mickeysoft. ;-) I must say I'm impressed with what I've seen this weekend. I installed Kubuntu 7.04 from a magazine-cd just to see how a windows user might do it. The install was flawless, although I think the part on partitioning the harddisk could be a little more user friendly. I made a backup, resized my hard disk and installed. This all went very well. Then I updated through ADEPT. Also very easy. Then I realized I was working on an "old" distribution. On to Google and find out how to update to 7.10 - the instruction on how to do this was less than 10 lines..... Wine is also installed - and that was incredibly easy - installing a windows program with winefile is also straight forward. All in all I'm very pleased with the new Ubuntu/Kubuntu. Next step is buying an x-one notebook and installing a Kubuntu on it. Then we can probably sell the notebook for around the equivalent to 700 US$ - this is cheap in Denmark. I'm looking forward to working with Kubuntu! Greetings from Denmark Kristen --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: iBART (mogio) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:45:14 -0000 Message-Id: <20071029114514.21799.92180.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> bug confirmed in italy too. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Flarkit (flarkit) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:06:31 -0000 Message-Id: <20071031080632.32302.73367.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I hope I'm not repeating previous comments, but I think this bug would be best addressed if the distros were consolidated down to specific Linux OS packages, such as "Linux Enterprise", "Linux Studio" and "Linux Home/Office" (or Linterprise, LinStudio and LinHoff). I believe that whilst the community continues to splinter off like this, the result will be slower progress. Fewer companies and individuals really trust an OS which consists of dozens of competing factions, IMHO. If all the incredible mental resources around the world (that are currently almost competing on various distros), were to focus on such specific platforms, would this not be sufficient to topple the behemoth? Whilst competition may encourage new ideas, it hampers the overall improvement. With visionary architects like Torvalds, Shuttleworth and co. overseeing the direction of everyone's work, I believe Linux would continue to evolve into the leading OS, whilst retaining the benefits of OSS. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: HappySpaceInvader (richard-cross) Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 08:45:07 -0000 Message-Id: <20071101084507.22328.27350.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> " What should happen: 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software lik= e Ubuntu." Why? People are happy to pay for the complete bundle including Windows. If people weren't happy to pay extra for commercial software, they would complain. The only people I hear complaining are Linux geeks. "2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and benefits would be apparent and known by all." So, who's going to fund that? And what are these amazing benefits and features anyway? Myself and my 5 colleagues have been using Ubuntu for 3 months now for Java Development and every single morning we each waste between 10 and 30 minutes trying to get the damn thing connected to our WPA2-protected wireless network instead of the unsecured wireless network on the floor below that belongs to a different company which Ubuntu seems to connect to by default. What's the benefit of automatically connecting to the first unsecured wireless network you find? I see that as a major security flaw and, in the UK where it is a criminal offence to connect to a wireless network without prior permission (see articles on BBC News website about this), it lays Ubuntu users wide open to allegations of stealing network access. So Ubuntu fails before I've even managed to get any work done. And why does everything run so slowly? Firefox takes nearly a full minute to load on a laptop with an Intel 1.66GHz Core Duo and 2GB RAM. "3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes." Quite. But at the moment, this is still an operating system for Unix nerds. I've used Windows, Linux, Solaris and OS X as desktop operating systems and I don't really see any as being significantly better or more secure than any other. So far, Windows and OS X come way out top for usability and interoperability while Linux trails far behind with Solaris. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: D. Brodzik (amyrose) Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:21:43 -0000 Message-Id: <20071102152143.28599.76556.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> > Why? People are happy to pay for the complete bundle including Windows. > If people weren't happy to pay extra for commercial software, they would = complain. > The only people I hear complaining are Linux geeks. The average user thinks Windows is freeware. They are totally unaware that = the cost of their computer includes the cost of Windows. If you don't belie= ve me, search the Internet, and talk to an average computer user. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Curaga (lauri-kasanen) Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 18:25:14 -0000 Message-Id: <20071102182514.28500.82512.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I'm also able to replicate this bug in Finland. Actually, it's 99% dependable to happen. Sucks. > The average user thinks Windows is freeware. I agree. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: David Vasta (david-vasta) Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2007 03:42:34 -0000 Message-Id: <20071103034234.9169.69464.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> You know we here at Ubuntu have good days and other days. Today is a good day. Wal-Mart in the US is offering sub $200 PCs with a new version of Ubuntu on them. I am excited about the offer and have ordered mine just to keep around. It's not the most power box on planet earth but it's a step in the right direction. We are winning the desktop battle. I have removed Vista from brand new laptops and put Ubuntu/Kubuntu on them. http://davidandkelly.com/iSeriesAddict/2007/11/01/200-ubuntu-pcs-wal- mart/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: INCA (nazgul72) Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2007 14:47:02 -0000 Message-Id: <20071103144702.1033.37498.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I'm telling you now, if Linux supported all those Windows only games, there would be a tsunami of gamers porting over to a Linux distro. I've been playing Crysis and Call of Duty 4 demos in WinXP and boy if they could run that well in Linux I could completely say adios to every Windows version that I ever had to use. Until this glaring problem is fixed Linux will still be ridiculed and not gain many from the Microsoft user camp. I love Ubuntu, my mom loves Ubuntu but we are the only 2 I know personally that do. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Stephan van Ingen (stephanvaningen) Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2007 20:25:15 -0000 Message-Id: agree, that could use a push: there are steps, but maybe needs more speed, preferably native: that is: without WINE http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS4727367100.html On 11/3/07, INCA wrote: > > I'm telling you now, if Linux supported all those Windows only games, > there would be a tsunami of gamers porting over to a Linux distro. I've > been playing Crysis and Call of Duty 4 demos in WinXP and boy if they > could run that well in Linux I could completely say adios to every > Windows version that I ever had to use. Until this glaring problem is > fixed Linux will still be ridiculed and not gain many from the > Microsoft user camp. I love Ubuntu, my mom loves Ubuntu but we are the > only 2 I know personally that do. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --=20 http://stephanvaningen.net stephanvaningen@gmail.com I am a happy www.ubuntu.com user -- --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Andreas Troschka (signupbox) Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 21:17:14 -0000 Message-Id: <20071111211714.7967.18883.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Yes, maybe, but I wouldn't be so shure. Who says that? How much can be considered true what is stated? =20 What happens to unsold computers? I don't think Windows will be uninstalled= and then installed on the new models... What is the market? Who says how much cubes "the market"? =20 If we compute how many people don't have any M$ product and compare this wi= th how much people do have at least one, not how much licences are sold or = the like!... I've four different Windows Licences with the corresponding CD-R on the she= lf, but no one is installed on my computers (12 PCs) Most companies I know having M$ products own more Windows licences as PCs w= ith Windows inside.=20 M$ and other american coadvertisers recently stated that Microsoft has the = majority of the server market share. They should get better sources for the= ir information! Linux kernel dependant operating systems aren't on the market by definition= . Linux isn't sold, so there is no market share to compare to. In this sense Microsoft has the majority market share, yes it does! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: DeadandGone (deadandgone) Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 22:20:43 -0000 Message-Id: <20071111222043.31787.71180.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> This Bug is being Squashed! daily. Thanks to Ubuntu, I bought my Dad a brand new e17 gOS gPC (which comes by default with a Ubuntu based derivative). I bought this for him online at Walmart for less then $200. He loves it! He gets his cable connection for the internet installed on Tuesday, I will show him how to install PokerTH and he will be overjoyed! My Dad is 71 and this is his first computer! The future belongs to Linux, Walmart has sold out of current stock of all the gOS gPC's! There are plenty of Windows Vista computer available, well of course there is, nobody wants Vista. Well at least the demand for a Ubuntu based OS computer is higher then a computer with Windows. The masses of America have spoken, the demand for Linux desktop computers is overwhelming. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: HappySpaceInvader (richard-cross) Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 08:59:13 -0000 Message-Id: <20071115085913.26543.43457.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> >> Why? People are happy to pay for the complete bundle including Windows. >> If people weren't happy to pay extra for commercial software, they would= complain. >> The only people I hear complaining are Linux geeks. >The average user thinks Windows is freeware. They are totally unaware that= the cost of their computer includes the cost of Windows. If you don't beli= eve >me, search the Internet, and talk to an average computer user. Exactly - ignorance is bliss... and ignorant people tend not to appreciate geeks coming along and spoiling their blissful existences. Nor do they appreciate elitist snobs telling them what they should or shouldn't be doing. Trying to convince ordinary people to use Linux instead of Windows is rather like trying to get people to read Dostoevsky instead of Dan Brown. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Stephan van Ingen (stephanvaningen) Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 09:40:35 -0000 Message-Id: Well, isn't that a noble attempt? ;) On 15/11/2007, HappySpaceInvader wrote: > > >> Why? People are happy to pay for the complete bundle including Windows. > >> If people weren't happy to pay extra for commercial software, they > would complain. > >> The only people I hear complaining are Linux geeks. > >The average user thinks Windows is freeware. They are totally unaware > that the cost of their computer includes the cost of Windows. If you don't > believe >me, search the Internet, and talk to an average computer user. > > Exactly - ignorance is bliss... and ignorant people tend not to > appreciate geeks coming along and spoiling their blissful existences. > Nor do they appreciate elitist snobs telling them what they should or > shouldn't be doing. Trying to convince ordinary people to use Linux > instead of Windows is rather like trying to get people to read > Dostoevsky instead of Dan Brown. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --=20 http://stephanvaningen.net stephanvaningen@gmail.com I am a happy www.ubuntu.com user -- --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Nemes Ioan Sorin (nemes-sorin) Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 12:02:12 -0000 Message-Id: <473C3544.4080000@gmail.com> This is a good point of view but only one face of the problem (1000 left...). The central point here is not to ask average users to read Dostoievsky,=20 or Hesse or Aitmatov - but to convince system integrators and computer=20 vendors to read Dostoievsky because they can (and they are the=20 difference not this large mass of Joe Doe). At this point - they can put a linux Flavor on each computer - for a=20 better price per system but they are afraid about client reactions like=20 -> "I can't install MSOffice on my new computer !!!..." (and examples=20 can continue). I see that here - a friend call me to see why he can not install=20 MSOffice - he buy a computer with Ubuntu - and he dont' know he has=20 Linux - he's only problem was why he can easy install MSOffice on his=20 old computer - but on the new computer he can't. I realize that the computer vendors don't know [Computer + Ubuntu +=20 Crossover Office] are less expensive than [Computer + MSWindows]. In fact computer vendors don't know too much about Crossover Office, they don't test it to obtain a reliable solution - so we have to=20 contact/help/encourage computer vendors to implement this better solution. Here we need to put the big focus - else... convincing every single=20 people will take 1000 years probably. Stephanvaningen wrote: > Well, isn't that a noble attempt? ;) >=20 > On 15/11/2007, HappySpaceInvader wrote: >>>> Why? People are happy to pay for the complete bundle including Windows. >>>> If people weren't happy to pay extra for commercial software, they >> would complain. >>>> The only people I hear complaining are Linux geeks. >>> The average user thinks Windows is freeware. They are totally unaware >> that the cost of their computer includes the cost of Windows. If you don= 't >> believe >me, search the Internet, and talk to an average computer user. >> >> Exactly - ignorance is bliss... and ignorant people tend not to >> appreciate geeks coming along and spoiling their blissful existences. >> Nor do they appreciate elitist snobs telling them what they should or >> shouldn't be doing. Trying to convince ordinary people to use Linux >> instead of Windows is rather like trying to get people to read >> Dostoevsky instead of Dan Brown. >> >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber >> of the bug. >> >=20 > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?R2VyZ2VseSBNw6F0w6kgKHNwb3J0ZW1iZXIp?= Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:35:27 -0000 Message-Id: <20071116203527.20330.61078.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Lot of legal problems occures related with media codecs. Please see this for ideas and brainstorming: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/multimedia-packages-policy In a nutshell, we would need a patent royalty broker (or other solution) to be able to legally serve media-codec libraries - in some - highly computerized - jurisdiction, at least. It is essential to empower our users, it is essential to do that legally, and it is essential to do that in a way that keeps them also in a legal path. A possible solution would be a service to let the users pay for patent royalties they want (or need, in a business environment) use. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: d_jedi (spymac-sucks) Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 03:05:19 -0000 Message-Id: <20071117030519.13312.4653.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> not a bug. functions as intended. your pal, Bill G, --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Colin Watson (cjwatson) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 19:35:14 -0000 Message-Id: <20071122193514.13876.17070.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Declining the per-release tasks. I appreciate the sentiment, but please let us use those tasks for release management purposes. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Colin Watson (cjwatson) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 19:36:01 -0000 Message-Id: <20071122193601.23528.76745.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> (Don't misread; obviously I would *love* it if Ubuntu 8.04 took away Microsoft's majority market share. :-)) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Elliott (emahler) Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 08:43:28 -0000 Message-Id: <20071123084328.13517.80046.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> In my eyes, the #2 thing holding this back are the driver issues. There is always always always some issue with drivers that causes problems ranging from annoyances to system-stopping errors. Until this is worked out, ubuntu (and linux in general) will never be mainstream. The#1 thing is obviously the fact that 98% of all ssoftware out there is intended forr Windows, and not all of it runs smoothly in programs like wine. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Stephan van Ingen (stephanvaningen) Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 09:51:05 -0000 Message-Id: 1/2: "Drivers": I can agree on that: that is not easy and has different roots, its mainly that suppliers must be convinced to cooperate: some already do provide linux drivers, which is good! 2/2: "software windows<->linux." 98%? Have you kept score? I was amazed to see the amount of programs running (also) on Linux, if you search for it ... and with Synaptic in Debian (& Ubuntu), the searching has become less necessary & much easier than windows for installation and (automatic) upgrades! On 23/11/2007, Elliott wrote: > > In my eyes, the #2 thing holding this back are the driver issues. There > is always always always some issue with drivers that causes problems > ranging from annoyances to system-stopping errors. Until this is worked > out, ubuntu (and linux in general) will never be mainstream. > > The#1 thing is obviously the fact that 98% of all ssoftware out there is > intended forr Windows, and not all of it runs smoothly in programs like > wine. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --=20 http://stephanvaningen.net stephanvaningen@gmail.com I am a happy www.ubuntu.com user -- --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: CypherDelic (maik-masling) Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 14:20:01 -0000 Message-Id: <20071124142001.6830.80087.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> This this bug serious, so lets get get serious. > In my eyes, the #2 thing holding this back are the driver issues. There > is always always always some issue with drivers that causes problems > ranging from annoyances to system-stopping errors. Until this is worked > out, ubuntu (and linux in general) will never be mainstream. Vendors will not spend as much work in open source drivers than absolutely neccessary. People using OSS OS'es should increase pressure on those vendors that don't support open source drivers. Ubuntu is mainstream in my opinion, because mainstream hardware is fully supported, no matter if certain hardware is not officially supported. > The#1 thing is obviously the fact that 98% of all ssoftware out there is > intended forr Windows, and not all of it runs smoothly in programs like > wine. You said, that its easier to get packages via synaptic. SO basically, you forget open source maintainly when you say, that 98% of all software is for microsoft windows. That is not true. Maybe 98% of proprietary software is for windows, yes, but open source has got very very much applications for any kind of thing to do. When talking about a shareholder market position of a corporation like micr= osoft, you can't be seriuos, because microsoft is not acting serious. In my point of view, the effort of the isle of man, the distribution of ubuntu, should be in absolute focus for a greater success. Members of Ubuntu and of course users should ask themself the right questions. What can they do to support Ubuntu? This project is definetly absolute on the right way to share a high value of practical freedom to the world. It will succeed, no matter of no talking guru, that motivates and animates Investors and spends money for children in the 3rd World. You merge all classes of the world. You are the investment.=20 You are No.1 market place shareholder.=20 You can grow to whatever, nobody will stop you. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Amir E. Aharoni (amir-aharoni) Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 15:56:56 -0000 Message-Id: <97f280ea0711240756p10ebda3au2240ad7c60f00e12@mail.gmail.com> > People using OSS OS'es should increase pressure > on those vendors that don't support open source drivers. The only sensible way to pressure vendors that i can think of is to refuse to buy hardware which is not supported. Instead, people try to make Ubuntu work with their Windows machine. Pre-installed Ubuntu machines from system76 and Dell are not necessarily workable with 100% free drivers, which is also a problem. I don't see what's the point in using a Free OS and ignoring the issue of Free drivers. Ubuntu made a good step with the restricted drivers manager - people need to click another button to enable a proprietary driver, but after they click the button, they forget it. Future versions should be more educational, i guess. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Guffmonger (hilton-mcgough-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 20:47:27 -0000 Message-Id: <20071125204727.31623.3609.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I can confirm that this is a bug of mammoth proportion and severity. A bug of this nature needs to be tackled at the right level. Let the courts in the European Union rule against PC vendors who "only" del= iver their products pre-bundled with Microsoft OSs. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Stephan van Ingen (stephanvaningen) Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 21:56:11 -0000 Message-Id: That makes sence, but it does send out negative energy: is there a possibility to do a similar approach in a more positive way? On 25/11/2007, Hilton McGough wrote: > > I can confirm that this is a bug of mammoth proportion and severity. > > A bug of this nature needs to be tackled at the right level. > Let the courts in the European Union rule against PC vendors who "only" > deliver their products pre-bundled with Microsoft OSs. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --=20 http://stephanvaningen.net stephanvaningen@gmail.com I am a happy www.ubuntu.com user -- --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Nemes Ioan Sorin (nemes-sorin) Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:52:49 -0000 Message-Id: <474B4031.9010503@gmail.com> No problem, you're right. Colin Watson wrote: > Declining the per-release tasks. I appreciate the sentiment, but please > let us use those tasks for release management purposes. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Nemes Ioan Sorin (nemes-sorin) Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:08:58 -0000 Message-Id: <474B43FA.8090902@gmail.com> Ubuntu need to be bulletproof itself before that ...realistic speaking=20 few releases and few years are necessary to see this objective personified. But I'm afraid, Ubuntu need to step on front(of other linux'es) -=20 regarding the UI metaphor. We all need that - best thing right now - is the sweet taste of liberty=20 which is in the air. So no problem - I don't misread the previous post ;) - I'll keep my=20 hands away. Respect, best regards, Sorin Nemes. Colin Watson wrote: > (Don't misread; obviously I would *love* it if Ubuntu 8.04 took away > Microsoft's majority market share. :-)) > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Paul Flint (flint) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:53:02 -0000 Message-Id: Greetings, Last night, I dreamed of a new law. This new Software Development Lifecycle Law, related to any and all=20 software unsupported by the original vendor, manufacturer or developer=20 (OEM). This law would require that the source code escrow agents of these = supposedly obsolete and unsupported software products and systems either=20 demonstrate contract with an agent supporting this code system or end=20 their stewardship and disclose the source code in escrow. In this dream, I was using Dbase and editing with Wordstar, as they were=20 now open source, ( I was thinking about switching to Edix :^). In this dream Micro$oft suddenly was supporting all versions of its=20 software starting at MS DOS 3.0. All windows versions prior to Windows=20 2000 were supported under a contract with Computer Associates. While at a = ridiculous price, windows 2000 and onward were supported directly by=20 Micro$soft. Warty Warthog under this law, was placed in the public domain... Can anyone else think of the unintended consequences of this type of=20 Software Development Lifecycle Law (SDLCL)? Thank you and... Kindest Regards, Paul Flint /************************************ Paul Flint Barre Open Systems Institute 17 Averill Street Barre, VT 05641 http://www.bosivt.org http://www.flint.com/home skype: flintinfotech Work: (202) 537-0480 Fax: (703) 852-7089 Free advice .~. is worth /V\ exactly what /( )\ you pay for it. ^^-^^ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:48:50 -0000 Message-Id: <20071127174850.1446.47515.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> http://resources.zdnet.co.uk/articles/features/0,1000002000,39291080,00.htm While I doubt they have heard of it, or even realize how similar it is, the fact remains that the #1 thing out of "Ten things holding back tech" is our Bug #1. As a matter of fact, Open Source answers almost all of those issues. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: GNUlancer (gnulancer-safe-mail) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:59:24 -0000 Message-Id: <20071128145924.2975.21433.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Successfully fixing in Russia by helping ppl to adapt to Ubuntu and fix essential incompatibilities. Already convinced one of my customers to completely move to Ubuntu. He, in = turn convinced 4 ppl in his city and so on.. Word-of mouth and consistent p2p help seem to be the best ways to eliminate= the bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Dennis Murczak (dmurczak) Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 21:17:36 -0000 Message-Id: <20071201211736.21146.87112.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> This bug is so widespread in Germany that you even can't get Macs in normal stores. Smaller stores will happily build you a custom PC without an OS, though, but this will involve an additional service fee. The only way to get a Linux-powered PC in Germany is through Dell. I have been working on this bug since about 2 years, but only managed to fix it on my girlfriend's PC and some other 35 PCs that were sorted out at my workplace, had no Windows license but shouldn't be sold naked, either. I have not been informed about where those PCs went and how many of the receivers reinstalled it with some weird proprietary stuff, so I can not give accurate status numbers here. Apparently my success was very limited given the effort, but because this bug is a severe show-stopper, I will continue to work on an effective fix until I see satisfying results. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: treetaxi (treetaxi) Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 23:06:46 -0000 Message-Id: <20071201230646.21096.2232.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> One way to work on this is to increase visibility. My favorite tactic is to visit a store that sells peripherals and ask "what operating system does this work with?" -- When they say "PC" , I try to find some colorful and creative way to inform them that "PC" is NOT synonymous with microsoft. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Dennis Murczak (dmurczak) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 13:48:00 -0000 Message-Id: <20071202134800.21096.58183.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I agree with you, treetaxi. This is the ultimate cause that blocks fixing the bug. Missing games and other vendor support are only symptoms of this. Hardware and software vendors will mostly ignore us desktop- wise until Linux is a driving force there, i.e. a good sales target. Because everybody thinks there is no money in desktop Linux, and Shuttleworth hasn't started a massive worldwide ad campaign yet, we are left with our grassroots work. We know it can work because grassroots activism made Firefox insanely popular. We must make *buntu known enough to the public that you can read about it all over the web (not only on tech sites), and finally in the mainstream news. I recommend setting up some professionally made viral videos and placing them on youtube. That would be a good start to draw a significant amount of general attention to *buntu. As a KDE zealot, I also emphasize that we stress there are several editions of Ubuntu, or make separate videos for the different Buntus :-) We could, no, should, also start a campaign demanding that hardware vendors should mention Linux in the system requirements on the box when there is clearly Linux support for that hardware. The vendor just has to shove in a live CD or consult a HCL for that, so it's not much effort needed on his side. We must do everything to increase the Linux user base, because it will mean more people working on the rough edges that are left and irritate new users, more software packagers and bug fixers, more commercial software/games, more people that don't get an irritated look when we start talking Linux and more pressure on MS to adhere to open standards. We can only win, we know that, but progress is AWFULLY slow when we limit ourselves to mouth-to-mouth propaganda and reinstalling a few PCs here and there. We need some sort of central voice and viral marketing. That's where it all starts. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Stephan van Ingen (stephanvaningen) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 21:43:05 -0000 Message-Id: I did a similar action last week: walked in a shop and started asking if they sold alternativesfor Windows - response negative. Then (after explaining I was not talking to them on the 'customer-side') talked with them about how they can offer customers a free solution, with free support via the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList, possibly by (in Belgium) a map with location of persons who are willing to give demo or assist on installation (http://map.ubuntu-be.org/index.php), this to show the shop-owner that it does not end after providing the customer with a free OS on their PC: this also makes their PC's cheaper to sell with same profit, so there's something in it for the shop owners as well as for the end-customers --> makes sense? --> I was wondering if it is possible that we can provide shop owners with displays about Ubuntu to place in their store, posters to place on their windows, ... ? Via Canonical? ... On 02/12/2007, treetaxi wrote: > > One way to work on this is to increase visibility. My favorite tactic > is to visit a store that sells peripherals and ask "what operating > system does this work with?" -- When they say "PC" , I try to find some > colorful and creative way to inform them that "PC" is NOT synonymous > with microsoft. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --=20 http://stephanvaningen.net stephanvaningen@gmail.com I am a happy www.ubuntu.com user -- --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: huiii (a00ps) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 22:02:49 -0000 Message-Id: <20071202220250.17057.58042.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> well, i agree on bug nr 1. microsoft. i work a lot with video-editing-suits for professional use and its frustrat= ing to still have to boot on windows to run premiere pro or aftereffects. m= ac has a better feeling than windows but ubuntu feels like home and it made= wonderful improvements. everything works smooth and barely hangs. plus all= the other super-top-features. if there would be some kind of commercial s= oftware market for the "middle-class" linux freelance video-editors or arti= sts, that would help a lot. so i will have to live double lives, windows and mac for professional audio= /video-editing, linux for all the rest: internet, experimenting, vj, daily-use, etc... :( --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Loucas Soteriou (sotloykas) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 19:41:31 -0000 Message-Id: <20071204194131.23362.65337.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> I agree with Dennis.The founder of Ubuntu doesnt start any campaign adverti= sing or pr campaign.The loco teams doest seem to have any resourses to figh= t.Eventhough the shop of Ubuntu makes 2-3 weeks to send cds that you baught= In europian countries(EU)normally in other shops with the same air mail th= e cds are coming in 4 days.So we must fight alone for this idea which calle= d Ubuntu.....I hope this suggestions to be listen from the management Thanx a lot --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 12:35:04 -0000 Message-Id: <20071219123505.11723.67944.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> http://www.ubuntu.com/ "Ubuntu CDs contain only free software applications; we encourage you to us= e free and open source software, improve it and pass it on." --- http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/84 "I hear you when you say =E2=80=9Cusers want proprietary codecs=E2=80=9D. T= hat=E2=80=99s why we make sure these items ARE available, at the user=E2=80= =99s option, as packages on the network repositories. That allows users who= need that functionality, or who choose that functionality over free altern= atives, to exercise that choice freely. We don=E2=80=99t make that choice f= or them, though of course there is huge demand from real users for that. An= d we will stay firm in that regard. Ubuntu does not, and will never, includ= e proprietary applications." --- http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2007/12/18/38935.aspx one step forward... "Today, we're adding Ubuntu 7.10 (a.k.a Gutsy Gibbon) to the Dell Consumer Linux line-up for customers in the United States. It will also be available on the Inspiron 530 in England, France, and Germany later this week." two steps back... "Pre-installation of [Adobe's] Flash for a better web experience" "we now include built-in DVD movie playback with all Ubuntu 7.10 systems" u= sing LinDVD (http://www.intervideo.com/jsp/Product_Profile.jsp?p=3DLinDVD) --- While its one thing if Dell wants to preload flashplugin-nonfree (which still is clearly NOT in the 'spirit of Ubuntu'), I am much more concerned by the fact that they're using LinDVD to play a restricted format, as its not available in Ubuntu's repositories (contrast with a case like MP3 support via gstreamer0.10-fluendo-mp3). The LinDVD page says "LinDVD, InterVideo's Linux software DVD player, is currently available only to manufacturers for evaluation and integration." Is this only legally available to Dell owners then? It looks like Dell wants to create a DellOS distro based on Ubuntu with various of proprietary things in the mix (ala Linspire) to help sell their computers. There's nothing stopping them from doing that, but is it really fair for Dell to be calling this "Ubuntu" though? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 12:50:01 -0000 Message-Id: <47691379.8080800@canonical.com> The question of OEM's adding proprietary bits to Ubuntu has been the=20 subject of long discussions here. In the end we concluded that customers=20 always have the option of buying the systems and installing Ubuntu=20 themselves, without those. Most folks who are primarily freedom-focused=20 and self-powered will do that, and many of them then add Flash in any=20 event. But folks who are buying a complete solution have said they want=20 the DVD playback, and want it pre-installed for them. Ubuntu itself is unaffected by this decision. Folks who want Linux, with=20 those capabilities installed, can get it. Mark --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:29:59 -0000 Message-Id: <20071219132959.11723.98026.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> "we concluded that customers always have the option of buying the systems and installing Ubuntu themselves, without those." I can buy a computer from Dell with Windows on it and overwrite the HD with Ubuntu, but that's also sub-optimal. Adobe's Flash plugin is gratis; AFAIK, LinDVD is not however. As it is bundled with Dell's Ubuntu systems, have we not just started trading the 'Microsoft tax' for a different 'proprietary software tax'? Is that really any better in the long-run? Philosophically, how does this 'Dellbuntu' really differ from Linspire? "Starting with the best that open source has to offer Linspire adds [...] proprietary software [...] and codecs" http://www.linspire.com/products_linspire_whatis.php --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 18:25:29 -0000 Message-Id: <20071219182529.27353.5987.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Providing a "free" OS if different from delivering a free OS. Yes, Dell is adding there "value add" to Ubuntu. Have you looked at a Dell Windows PC lately? If you want a clean Windows install on a Dell, you reinstall Windows. An entire project (The Dell Decrapiffier) was created just to address this. It is not a surprise that they also want to put a stamp on the Ubuntu desktop, and if we try and stop that, we are stepping on Dell's freedom. And having them ship a commercial project shows the viability of the Linux market, and this is not a bad thing. While Dell mucking about with the desktop (any desktop) is a ugly thing, it is a sign of a very good thing; the adoption of Linux by the infrastructure that made the wintel standard so powerful. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 00:34:29 -0000 Message-Id: <20071220003429.2983.97392.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> "It is not a surprise that they also want to put a stamp on the Ubuntu desktop, and if we try and stop that, we are stepping on Dell's freedom." If they wanted to rebrand the systems 'Dellbuntu' that would be different. This cheapens the name Ubuntu and mocks its core principles. It is also a step backwards; a proprietary Flash plugin and DVD player software are examples of exactly what Bug #1 is about: "Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry." Up until now, despite some annoyance I've had about the way Dell was going about handling its Ubuntu systems (including not selling them here in Canada ;), I planned to replace my current system with a Dell when it got older. But if they're going to pull games like this too, I'm going to reconsider. I note that Mr. Shuttleworth has blogged about the proprietary DVD playback as a good thing: "the US patent landscape makes that impossible, so for the moment this requires proprietary software" http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/133 Why does it have to be preinstalled though? Why can't users be given the option to download it like Real Player from Canonical's partner repository? If its not even gratis, that is a very slippery slope Dell is heading down indeed. But arguments for 'legal' encrypted DVD playback aside, what justification is there for the preloaded proprietary Flash plugin? Also I note in the comments to that post: "Excellent news! Next step is audio and video codecs - mainly mp3, wmv and others." What is there to stop Dell from including all sorts of non-free codecs and STILL calling it Ubuntu? At what point does Ubuntu slide down the slippery slope and the "Ubuntu promise" become a bad joke? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:03:34 -0000 Message-Id: <476A2FE6.1000906@canonical.com> Conrad Knauer wrote: > What is there to stop Dell from including all sorts of non-free codecs > and STILL calling it Ubuntu? At what point does Ubuntu slide down the > slippery slope and the "Ubuntu promise" become a bad joke? > =20 The Ubuntu promise has always been that *we* will publish a system which=20 has only free software applications, but that we would work with=20 proprietary vendors to make sure their stuff works on Ubuntu because=20 Ubuntu users have every right to choose a proprietary application if=20 they want. We took the difficult step of deciding to include proprietary=20 drivers precisely because we WANT people to experience free software,=20 even if their hardware provider has not yet figured out how to do Linux=20 properly. In this case Dell is the user, and Dell is also acting on=20 behalf of their customers. The underlying idea is that Ubuntu should express the best of free=20 software, but that it should also be useful to EVERYONE and a platform=20 on top of which people can build even if they don't have entirely the=20 same set of values. We are not trying to beat freedom into the skulls of=20 those who do not want it, we are showing them what is possible and=20 leading them towards that freedom one step at a time. The set of people who will build their own kernel with all the firmware=20 removed is very, very small, and they can help themselves. We, at=20 ubuntu.com, aim to reach a wider audience, which is people who are=20 passionate about free software and want a trusted, convenient place to=20 get it. They will make their own decisions about non-free applications=20 they might add, just as you describe. Dell is aiming for a slightly=20 wider audience, of people who are willing to try something more advanced=20 or new, but don't want to stumble on something they consider a basic=20 element, such as DVD playback, just because there are US patents on that=20 technology. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Paul Flint (flint) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:11:17 -0000 Message-Id: Dear Mark and Conrad, On Thu, 20 Dec 2007, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > The underlying idea is that Ubuntu should express the best of free > software, but that it should also be useful to EVERYONE and a platform > on top of which people can build even if they don't have entirely the > same set of values. We are not trying to beat freedom into the skulls of > those who do not want it, we are showing them what is possible and > leading them towards that freedom one step at a time. > As some of you all may be aware, I admire the free software movement from=20 the supine position of an acolyte, thought I would wish to posses the=20 skills and think the thoughts necessary to be an author, a writer of good=20 software. I believe that what Ubuntu and the open source movement is=20 about is the recognition and celebration of those touched by the muse of=20 software, who follow the endless cycle; edit, save, compile, debug,=20 edit... The image that I wish to include as part of my understanding of the Dell=20 issue is the Grand Canyon, also in the United States: http://www.oursaviorchurch.org/school/faculty/gthorp/wp- content/uploads/2007/05/tour_grand_canyon_1.jpg Look at this image and it becomes very clear that there are layers of=20 stone set one on top of another. This dovetails with my vision of the=20 software world. This vision is quite beautiful, yet for many, barren. The open source movement represents a force moving through these layers.=20 this force of software freedom is not irresistible in its effectiveness,=20 yet it is immutable. Sometimes it goes around an intransigent sedimentary=20 layer, sometimes under, maybe over, but always in the end this elemental=20 force cuts through. It wins out. Several days ago I celebrated my birthday, the years I have lived now far=20 exceed a half of a century. In my life I have seen damn few miracles.=20 The water of the Colorado River that cut the Grand Canyon may be one, but=20 the Open Source Software movement exceeds even this wonder. I urge you=20 all to continue to squabble, connive and complain, continue to argue,=20 debate, shout and above all, continue to edit, save, compile, debug,=20 edit... Let the water do its work. Kindest Regards, Paul Flint /************************************ Based upon email reliability concerns, please send an acknowledgement in response to this note. Paul Flint Barre Open Systems Institute 17 Averill Street Barre, VT 05641 http://www.bosivt.org http://www.flint.com/home skype: flintinfotech Work: (202) 537-0480 Fax: (703) 852-7089 Free advice .~. is worth /V\ exactly what /( )\ you pay for it. ^^-^^ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alperen Yusuf Aybar (alperen) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 14:34:16 -0000 Message-Id: <20071220143417.7906.38884.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > The Ubuntu promise has always been that *we* will publish a system which > has only free software applications, but that we would work with > proprietary vendors to make sure their stuff works on Ubuntu because > Ubuntu users have every right to choose a proprietary application if > they want. +1 This is what I call freedom ! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:20:39 -0000 Message-Id: <20071220162040.25433.45028.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Conrad, I think you miss-remember Bug #1. "Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix." For every Ubuntu, Linux Mint, Linspire or Apple Mac that is sold, we get a little fix to that bug. And more non-microsoft means less MS-only apps and websites. Also, the more Ubuntu has mind share, the more likely people will be to code and product test to the base Ubuntu. (The one we like, not the Dell version. No one codes to Dell Windows either) Now the reason DVD playback is a good thing is my sister. If it does not have it, she won't use the system. And no, she won't (She believes that she can't, but that is a different bug) add it her self. Vendors like Dell make there money selling to people like my sister, and that is why Dell includes DVD, Flash, Support, and other things that you or I don't need. The alternative is to leave them to Microsoft, and now we are back to Bug #1. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Kevin Cole (kjcole) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:51:38 -0000 Message-Id: <20071220185138.23496.23528.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > The set of people who will build their own kernel with all the firmware > removed is very, very small, and they can help themselves. We, at > ubuntu.com, aim to reach a wider audience, which is people who are > passionate about free software and want a trusted, convenient place to > get it. They will make their own decisions about non-free applications > they might add, just as you describe. Dell is aiming for a slightly > wider audience, of people who are willing to try something more advanced > or new, but don't want to stumble on something they consider a basic > element, such as DVD playback, just because there are US patents on that > technology. Is there any commitment on Dell's part to promote the philosophy, and encourage the unencumbering of DVD playback, etc? If so, then embrace them. However, if I tell people that I sell Coke and Pepsi, but then dilute one with the other simply to satisfy folks who want Pepsi in a Coke bottle, then it's not the right direction to go. Eventually it will become so diluted and polluted that the names will mean nothing, the differences between them will mean nothing, and the philosophy will mean nothing. Point in case: OpenOffice. I've had Free (libre) zealots sing the praises of the OpenOffice suite. When I commented that WordPerfect had a more intuitive "openness" several people at a LUG meeting swore up and down that OpenOffice's "show hidden characters" was as good as "Reveal Codes". Even the choir is starting to preach off-key. It took an actual comparison for them to realize what's been lost by assuming that MS Office is the pinnacle of creation. Fine, we don't want to beat them into subversion. (We all know they should use bzr.) Or as I like to say: "If you don't behave, we'll invade and bring freedom and democracy to your country." But we do want to keep them clear on what the differences ARE. And Dell needs to be a part of that. For people who don't care, there's always Microsoft Windows. For others, there's Linux -- in whatever flavor you choose, the sloooowly evolving Haiku Project, and countless things we've never dreamed of either already happening or being thought up by some 5-year-olds with vision and no dogma to stop them. But without the will to help change things from companies like Dell, Microsoft will eventually win patent rights, etc, and distributions will lose, just because it becomes too much of a pain in the ass for the average Joe to fight the system. You and I will continue to take the watch apart, and put in a better mainspring, and we may be able to do it for our friends. But we'll be the outlaw watchmakers and locksmiths, and still relatively small in numbers. It's happened with other technologies... (See the documentary "What Ever Happened to the Electric Car?") --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Kantastisk (kantastisk) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 22:11:14 -0000 Message-Id: <20071225221114.30141.95040.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> *Bug confirmed in Denmark* MS Windows is used on nearly every single institutional PC in the country, and on the vast majority of home PC's as well. Courses on the usage of specific proprietary software (nearly all of them Windows apps) is a mandatory part of public education. The majority of people will recognize Internet Explorer as 'the internet', Windows (Live) Messenger as 'chat', Excel as 'spreadsheet' and viruses and malware as 'a serious and daily threat to my files'. The list goes on. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Elantrix (elantrix) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 07:55:02 -0000 Message-Id: <20071227075502.28055.94926.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> As much as I agree with you's, but unless Linux and Ubuntu had better support with the hardware manufactors and software developers especially the gaming industry, Unbuntu and the rest of the open-source free software will never get accepted by the general windows user as it's very unpredictable to determine bugs or newly introduced bugs as testing is only focused on the MS Windows platforms. If Ubuntu had a major sponsor to back up their effort, then we may have to get peoples attention though computers with pre-ubuntu, advertisements etc. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: alpharay (wrongloop) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 14:50:07 -0000 Message-Id: <20071227145010.28158.14683.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I think the only way to get big companies and/or stores to preinstall linux on Pc's is that people/customers ..we resquest it more I mean pople or kids go for the fancy I even wanted to go for th Vista but It was pretty expensive but once I got beryl on ubuntu I think is better and with 4 gigs of ram its like a fish on water. we should request Linux more in the stores so they can make their minds.... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 16:07:21 -0000 Message-Id: <47751F39.6070104@hal-pc.org> Ubuntu QA Tracker wrote: > ** Tags added: iso-testing >=20 St=C3=A9phane Graber wrote: > ** Tags removed: iso-testing > Darn! I REALLY wanted to see that iso! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: JC Cheloven (jc-cheloven) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 05:31:48 -0000 Message-Id: <20071231053148.29009.28262.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> No report from Spain so far?... well, here is one. This "bug" is widely spread over here, although things are going better: - Some 50% among my colleagues and friends (mostly engineers) know about li= nux, and some 15% have a distro installed. Although usually as a secondary = option, in a smaller partition than windows... but it's a start point. - On the other hand, I've found in my town (medium size, 400k inhabitants) = several shops shipping linux in their computers, as an option. One has to a= sk for it, no advertisements, but I got surprised anyway. I thought there = was no option but MS in my town. - Several official entities have adopted linux as their OS. For example, th= e region of "Castilla -La Mancha" has officially promoted a distro called M= olinux, based on Ubuntu 7.10 !!!!! A big step. Please see http://www.molinu= x.info I came here after using MS since the very begining of DOS (25+ years ago?).= Now I wanted an option to get a bit apart of forced expensive updates (or = piracy-guilty feelings), viruses, uniformization, etc, and heard about tha= t free-software movement. I like it, and I choose Ubuntu as my gateway to t= hat world. Thus I'd like to help with some positive criticism: --> Keep it stable! The user thinks "I'm on linux, this is extremely robust= ". But I experienced system crashes doing routine tasks, as logging as anot= her user, or powering off the system. --> Enhance partnership/relationship with software developers. The main rea= son for me to continue using XP (to my regret) is that quality software for= editing musical scores, sound recording/editing/sequencing, and the like, = are not supported in linux. The same applies for many other specialized tas= ks, important to other people. (I know, is propietary software... but worth= it at the moment). --> Keep on the way of making it more and more user-friendly.=20 ...Well doing my best to fix the bug in my neighbourhood ;-) ______________________________ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: DanFoxDavies (danfox) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 00:46:08 -0000 Message-Id: <20080103004609.8787.63839.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> This bug is also very serious throughout West Yorkshire, UK. Can be repeate= d in EVERY large chain store and 95% of smaller shops. I too am helping to work on the bugfix, but it's going to take some time. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: LTSmash (lord-ltsmash) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 23:44:14 -0000 Message-Id: <20080106234414.9661.87997.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Bug confirmed in Aguascalientes, Mexico, where everybody sell Windows, however I can manage to buy OSless systems. I also sell PC's with Kubuntu preinstalled. JC: There is good mixing software like Audacity --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: >Jesus|Freak (mcarr0007) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:00:16 -0000 Message-Id: <20080110220016.8267.15767.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Bug confirmed on the Portland State University campus. All the workstations in the non CS departments on campus use Windows XP with some iMac workstations in some classrooms, though the Meseeh College of Engineering and Computer Science uses and supports Ubuntu with a few Windows and Solaris labs in MCECS. There is also a supercomputer on campus that uses Linux. I am personally helping out on working on bug by informing my classmates and friends about Linux, as well as posting about Ubuntu on FaceBook and MySpace. Assessment: Bug is under control in the computer science and engineering departments while running amock on the rest of the campus including labs in Cramer Hall, Newburger Hall, Millar Library, the campus administration in Newberger Hall, Campus Security, Smith Memorial Student Union, and Food for Thought Cafe, which is student-run where there are 2 XP workstations for recreational websurfing. Most Student owned laptops I have seen around campus run Windows or Apple. Portland State does host an Ubuntu mirror for downloading Ubuntu systems, but it is mostly Windows outside of the CS and Engineering Departments. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tina Russell (tinarussell) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 02:36:36 -0000 Message-Id: <20080111023636.14423.75065.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Microsoft has no competition in the tablet computer space. Moreover, the Windows tablet features are actually pretty good. Fortunately, us open- source types thrive on such challenges. Windows being the only operating system suitable for tablets for most users is a bug that severely limits the choice of operating system for tablet users. We will fix this by allowing users to install a tablet- friendly version of Ubuntu, or easily add such features to an existing Ubuntu installation. This will, in turn, fix a related bug: the lack of tablet-focused software for Linux systems. We will create a sea change in Linux, computer, and creative culture, but we will do it one commit at a time. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tina Russell (tinarussell) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 02:43:39 -0000 Message-Id: <20080111024339.14309.77113.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Sorry for above; I added this bug to the new "Tabuntu" project and that was the comment I confirmed it with. Errr, so it's out of context. Sorry about that. Thanks for the report, Jesus Freak; I'm a Portland native, and we seriously ought to be Linux Central. This bug is also confirmed at the University of Oregon, where despite near-universal disdain for Microsoft among computer-science students, all you can find everywhere on campus, even after searching high and low, are Windows machines and some Macs. (The Macs, of course, are more popular.) If you're a graduate student, you may even get access to _Solaris._ So, yes, this bug persists. If you have any suggestions on how to fix this bug in this particular location, contact me. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Bruno Laturner (renrutal) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:23:01 -0000 Message-Id: <20080117212301.6984.72356.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Confirmed in Brazil as of 2008. What is even worse, some distros used by some hardware manufacturers even help them at maintaining their share because of their abyssal quality control. Not to say that the same manufactures might ship hardware not supported on Linux. At least some governmental organizations, like the Ministry of Education, require that all the hardware to be bought by them must be Debian 4 compatible. However their benchmarks to test the quality of the hardware is done via Sysoft Sandra. Ubuntu, save us! I've never seen a store with PCs running Ubuntu. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Paul Flint (flint) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:46:00 -0000 Message-Id: Greetings List Lurkers, My contribution to this bug report is to point out that it is pervasive.=20 It appears that you cannot get a job in the U.S. without using Microsoft=20 Products. Please read below: Should a preference for Open Source Software be considered a mental=20 handicap for Human Resource Specialists? Is there any study or citation in the Human Resources area regarding the "programmed in " bias that products such as erecruit, SAP or PeopleSoft exhibit? The result of such a bias, if I am correct in identifying it, is to guarantee the perpetuation of Microsoft Products in the workplace. I realize this is maybe too damn much for a Monday, but I appreciate your thoughts and imaginative response. My recent, admittedly imperfect, understanding and modest research=20 indicates that in many cases the commercial closed source program=20 "erecruit" which is used by the many large Human Resources Departments,=20 has been known to negatively impact on applications made using the Firefox = web browser. One known defect is that security features used in the Firefox browser=20 which prevent, "pop-ups" and other annoying, involuntary, unwanted and=20 possibly malicious effects on my personal computer excludes properly=20 applying for positions in my State Government. Internet Explorer, on the=20 other hand, famously allows these "Active X" security risks by default.=20 Sadly enough, it has been my professional mission for the last few years=20 to point out the advantages of Free and Open Source Software, such as=20 Firefox, as viable, modern and thrifty alternatives for just such reasons. What appears to be happening is simply put, if I do not use Microsoft Internet Explorer, I cannot apply for a State Government position. Thus, this singular support of the Microsoft Internet Explorer browser=20 actively discriminates against between 12.5 to 65 percent of all Internet=20 users. The effect of this bug in "erecruit" may cause this application to=20 only process candidates that use Microsoft products. I would suggest that = exclusive use of Microsoft products is not in the best interests of any=20 Human Resources Department's recruiting mission, or a necessary hiring=20 goal, but I could be wrong. My conclusion here is that my professional preference for Open Source Software could be considered a mental handicap. I use Linux not because I am a petulant a-hole (not that I am not :^), but honestly, because it makes more sense to me than Microsoft Windows products. Could this be considered a defect such that I could claim accommodation under the Americans with Disabilities Act? I would appreciate information from anyone who has gone through this in=20 their own job search. Regards, Flint /************************************ Based upon email reliability concerns, please send an acknowledgement in response to this note. Paul Flint Barre Open Systems Institute 17 Averill Street Barre, VT 05641 http://www.bosivt.org http://www.flint.com/home skype: flintinfotech Work: (202) 537-0480 Fax: (703) 852-7089 Consilium gratuitum .~. valet /V\ quanti /( )\ numerantur ^^-^^ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: peter (cpjkennedy-shaw) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 15:08:57 -0000 Message-Id: <20080121150857.2676.35633.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> In Canada it is virtually impossible to buy a new computer without Microsoft products pre-installed. Don't get me wrong, I don't have any problem with having the option of installing Microsoft products on my computer, I just want the choice. On the bright side, I now have an excuse for doing my own build from scratch, and can avoid low end components! ;-) Oh, by the way, my four year old has started using Ubuntu and thinks it's cool! Salut, Peter --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Andreas Troschka (signupbox) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:30:01 -0000 Message-Id: <20080122183001.6574.61613.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> It seems this bug has at least an autoestinguence gene. ;-) So, just to announce what's going on *in the real world* (not in that fanta= sy world of the american marketing research institutions one!):=20 1. recently the british Ministry for education has disposed the cancellatio= n of every M$ license and the substitution of o.s.' and software applicatio= ns with Open Source Linux stuff in british school's PCs;=20 2. the italian Parliament (during the last weeks) has deliberated to "get t= echnological and economical independence" terminating any license contract = with M$ for 3500 notebooks, desktops, palmtops of its institution, at first= , saving not less then 9MEuros/year. All named computers will be provided w= ith Open Source software and Linux o.s.. This new politic tactic will be sp= read to all over the italian institutions ensuring proportional savings (we= are speaking about hundreds of thousand, if not millions, of PC units!). There are news about this kind of actions every day from all over the world. It should be interesting to concentrate numbers related to this item on a single (multimirrored) Internet site. Regards --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Chris Perrod (c-perrod) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 08:41:38 -0000 Message-Id: <20080126084138.29672.67419.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> For instance, French D=C3=A9put=C3=A9s have now Ubuntu working computers : = I guess this is not due to philosophical reasons but trivial money sparing... Oh, I hope Mr Sarkozy never find out this.... Chris --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 22:47:42 -0000 Message-Id: <20080130224742.12730.25574.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> Details on Chris Perrod's mention of "French D=C3=A9put=C3=A9s have now Ubu= ntu working computers": French police deal blow to Microsoft http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iU4Lq7tOR_WVOJLZ3IeRaIH03x6w Excerpt: "There are three reasons behind the move, Geraud said at the Solution Linux 2008 conference here. The first is to diversify suppliers and reduce the force's reliance on one company, the second is to give the gendarmerie mastery of the operating system and the third is cost, he said." There's also an important lesson in that article on how to successfully migrate to software libre; start by replacing the various programs one uses with libre equivalents and then when Windows is just a skeletal framework on which they hang, replace it with a libre OS; the apps will be identical and the final transition almost completely painless. This suggests that a good step to fighting Bug #1 would be to convince OEMs which preload Windows to include lots of software libre on their Windows systems; OpenOffice.org, Firefox, etc. Dell is 'considering' this, but has not made any commitments yet: http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/62245/Have_Firefox_preinstalled_as_de= fault_browser http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/62047/PreInstalled_OpenOffice__altern= ative_to_MS_Works__MS_Office --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Gustavo Narea (gnarea) Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2008 13:46:05 -0000 Message-Id: <20080209134605.10297.40216.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> The suggestion on Bug #190452 might be a big step toward the fix of this bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2008 14:50:36 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0802090650g62210300i7de4bd92c4b269a8@mail.gmail.com> A sr, Narea, which suggestion ? gracias, Allen (in Mexico, where MS dominates) * My suggestions: Allow as many people as possible to use your Linux system Load Ubuntu / Linux on systems belonging to your friends On systems previosly ruined by"bugs and bots" refuse to re-load any flavor of MS Windows, Refuse to repair any system with more than 4 problems caused by "Windows, IE Explorer and MS mail clients. * On Feb 9, 2008 6:46 AM, GustavoNarea wrote: > The suggestion on Bug #190452 might be a big step toward the fix of this > bug. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Confirmed > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Source Package "bum" in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in Source Package "casper" in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in Source Package "djplay" in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in Source Package "firefox" in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in Source Package "ubuntu-express" in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in Source Package "linux" in Debian GNU/Linux: New > Status in Tilix Linux: Invalid > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > Steps to repeat: > 1. Visit a local PC store. > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software > like Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features > and benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --=20 http://www.flickr.com/photos/olsneezy/sets/ try the "slideshow" --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 01:12:44 -0000 Message-Id: <20080211011245.6568.73110.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> rvv --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 01:17:03 -0000 Message-Id: <20080211011703.23368.94819.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> RVV! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 01:19:58 -0000 Message-Id: <20080211011958.13819.51129.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> unsure if the status was vandalized too; resetting. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 01:20:54 -0000 Message-Id: <20080211012055.23368.158.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> unsure if the status was vandalized too; resetting to "new". --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: ptoye (i-launchpad-ptoye-com) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:05:45 -0000 Message-Id: <20080212110545.12268.81169.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> I regret that I have to agree. I've been in IT for about 40 years, and have just decided to have a play with Ubuntu Linux on an old system box. No problems installing from the downloaded CD, but things just don't work out of the box. "Video mode not supported" on my monitor during the boot process (I think t= here's meant to be a splash screen there). That I can live with, but would = scare the unsophisticated user. "Failed to construct test pipeline..." on when trying to get my USB sound card to work. The forums (fora?) are very useful here, but again the "normal" user would be completely at sea. With Windows, it just worked. And looking through the forums and help files, getting a wireless LAN to work needs a couple of doctorates. I've not dared try. Again, it just worked with Windows. (That ndiswrapper isn't included with the distro doesn't help - how can one download it without access to the net?). The forums are very helpful, but the solutions usually tell the user to issue commands as a sort of magic spell, without any guarantee of their success, or how to regress if they fail. Personally, I'm very cautious about issuing commands (especially with sudo) unless I have some understanding of what they do. For any Linux to get a foothold, things just have to work out of the box. If this needs manufacturer support in providing drivers, that's where effort should go. Although this forum is dedicated to Ubuntu, and it's the only one I've tried, I suspect that many of the problems occur with other distros. To sum up, Microsoft.Windows has many faults, but manufacturers are prepared to invest effort into overcoming them, which makes it possible for unsophisticated users to buy a box in the knowledge that most things will work OK. Linux is still too geeky to make this possible. Some large customers can afford the effort to use it. Small ones can't, so they won't. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:10:33 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0802120610k5b3142b2ned5b4476639981e1@mail.gmail.com> Note: "ptoye" makes some valid, and strong points. Every user will have a different experience and one aspect will be the type of equipment that person is using. How many of us "shop" for Linux friendly computer equipment ? Four years ago my system of choice, for Ubuntu was an AMD 64 based mobo. With full intentions of dual-booting. Ubuntu was great, forget Windows at that time ! And the first wireless, WiFi card installed was a real challenge. Ubuntu and Canonical are ethical in the extreme, no pirated drivers, or proprietary software, yet we use said drivers, how does a "newbie" figure this out. All distos are not the same, some will simply use purloined drivers and software. Is Ubuntu the right choice for a new Linux user ? Perhaps. We know it works, the word is ''robust". What is needed, on occasion is telephone support, on a volunteer basis. And I strongly support Canonical's pay to use support. see: Canonical Global Support Services | Ubuntu Allen On Feb 12, 2008 4:05 AM, ptoye wrote: > I regret that I have to agree. I've been in IT for about 40 years, and > have just decided to have a play with Ubuntu Linux on an old system box. > No problems installing from the downloaded CD, but things just don't > work out of the box. > > > "Video mode not supported" on my monitor during the boot process (I think > there's meant to be a splash screen there). That I can live with, but wou= ld > scare the unsophisticated user. > > "Failed to construct test pipeline..." on when trying to get my USB > sound card to work. The forums (fora?) are very useful here, but again > the "normal" user would be completely at sea. With Windows, it just > worked. > > And looking through the forums and help files, getting a wireless LAN > to work needs a couple of doctorates. I've not dared try. Again, it just > worked with Windows. (That ndiswrapper isn't included with the distro > doesn't help - how can one download it without access to the net?). > > The forums are very helpful, but the solutions usually tell the user to > issue commands as a sort of magic spell, without any guarantee of their > success, or how to regress if they fail. Personally, I'm very cautious > about issuing commands (especially with sudo) unless I have some > understanding of what they do. > > For any Linux to get a foothold, things just have to work out of the > box. If this needs manufacturer support in providing drivers, that's > where effort should go. Although this forum is dedicated to Ubuntu, and > it's the only one I've tried, I suspect that many of the problems occur > with other distros. > > To sum up, Microsoft.Windows has many faults, but manufacturers are > prepared to invest effort into overcoming them, which makes it possible > for unsophisticated users to buy a box in the knowledge that most things > will work OK. Linux is still too geeky to make this possible. Some large > customers can afford the effort to use it. Small ones can't, so they > won't. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Confirmed > Status in Launchpad Translations: New > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Source Package "bum" in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in Source Package "casper" in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in Source Package "djplay" in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in Source Package "firefox" in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in Source Package "ubuntu-express" in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in Source Package "linux" in Debian GNU/Linux: New > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > -- stop junk mail,look here: http://www.ambysoft.com/ideas/reduceJunkMail.html --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: ptoye (i-launchpad-ptoye-com) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:32:21 -0000 Message-Id: <20080212193222.13819.51306.malone@gangotri.ubuntu.com> Thanks for your positive feedback Allen. As only a casual user (and not that yet until I can get the problems sorted) I felt a bit diffident about speaking up with so many experts about. But there are many types of user, and is Linux (whichever flavour) right for all of them? If all you want to do is connect to the Internet with your built-in Ethernet card, surf the web, use email, maybe use bits of the Open Office suite, it's fine, robust (as long as your Ethernet card is supported). But how do you find that out? The shop won't tell you because it doesn't know (unless Linux was included with the system). There's the elderly piano teacher mentioned in bug 154459 who needs a total lack of hassle. There's the reasonably computer-savvy type (like myself) who knows the sort of thing that can be done, but needs some pointers as to how to do it.There's the professional computer support guy who knows a lot about the subject, but wants to minimise the hassle he gets from the OS - he gets more than enough from the users (in my last job I asked why I couldn't have a Linux box rather than an NT Server and was told that supporting one version of Unix - Solaris - was enough for the support team and that Sun boxes were too expensive). And the super-geek who's willing to spend hours dredging through forums to find the solution and doesn't mind reinstalling twice a week when it all falls over. And while Linux has the reputation of catering only for the last of these in all but the simplest of cases, there just won't be the sales to make it worth while the shops installing it. I can't speak for other countries, but at the retail level in the UK we have consumer protection laws, and selling kit the doesn't work out of the box will result in expensive refunds, and the shops will be left with a load of "just-used" kit which they can't easily sell. OK, Linux may be cheaper, but nothing's cheap if it doesn't work! > How many of us "shop" for Linux friendly computer equipment ?=20 Well, I would if I knew what was Linux-friendly. But (in my case) looking a= t the list of supported WLAN cards on the Ubuntu forum, there doesn't seem = to be one which will work without downloading extra software. So which one = should I buy if it may not even work? Another point which I didn't mention is the sheer number of distros about, all fighting each other for market share. All too reminiscent of the 1980s, with dozens of Unixes squabbling, and Microsoft laughing all the way to the bank. The only reason I chose Ubuntu was that it's easy to get hold of at minimal cost; as I'm just trying to see if I can get my USB sound card to record I don't want to spend money on kit that may not work. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Toni Ruottu (toni-ruottu) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:24:12 -0000 Message-Id: <1202851459.15718.9.camel@localhost> > But there are many types of user, and is Linux (whichever flavour) right > for all of them? If all you want to do is connect to the Internet with > your built-in Ethernet card, surf the web, use email, maybe use bits of > the Open Office suite, it's fine, robust (as long as your Ethernet card > is supported). But how do you find that out? The shop won't tell you > because it doesn't know (unless Linux was included with the system). I want to point out that https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw is quite useful. They check that there is public driver source code available for the hardware they recomend. When community has the source, the hardware can be supported even, if the OEM doesn't care about Linux support. I checked the site before buying my wireless card and guess what, no hassle with any restricted or semilegal stuff. --Toni --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: wyo (otto-wyss) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:32:49 -0000 Message-Id: <20080220083249.29764.40488.malone@gandwana.ubuntu.com> It's now almost 2 year since I've written something about this bug here (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/62) and it's now about 1 year since I've lost fait that this bug will be solved before I die. Yet it's time to make a review if anything has changed regarding this bug. To draw a resume: Ubuntu has nothing achived in this last year. It couldn't gain anything on Windows, it only margially gained on other Linux distributions and it even lost on MacOSX. How can anybody spend his spare time (his most precious live time) for a project with doesn't make any progression! Nothing significant has been achieved in this year. Windows ist still the vast leading system and even seems to gain in some parts. Windows doesn't anymore trap that often into a blue screen. Windows drivers are mostly delivered through Windows Update and are mostly uptodate. And there are still countless of Windows-only applications out there. There is still no easy usable Mailer/Calender/Communicator application in Ubuntu. There are still only these horrible GTK+ applications available. There are still countless driver problems when using new or even sometime old hardware. Installing and accessing printers is still something which often doesn't work. The display through X-server looks awfull, fonts are more or less not viewable. I'm asking, does Ubuntu really plan to fix this short commings anytime or has it given up? O. Wyss --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:28:17 -0000 Message-Id: <47BBF2B1.2080907@hal-pc.org> wyo wrote: > It's now almost 2 year since I've written something about this bug here > (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/62) and it's now about 1 > year since I've lost fait that this bug will be solved before I die. Yet > it's time to make a review if anything has changed regarding this bug. >=20 > To draw a resume: Ubuntu has nothing achived in this last year. I guess you see what you want to see... I am sure my perception is=20 slightly biased as well, but I still have some points to counter. 1) Have you tried printing lately? With Gutsy, cups made a huge gain.=20 Now most HP and Xerox printers are auto-detected, even on the LAN, and=20 installed with no "searching." See me do thins with my laptop has=20 prompted a few "Wins" at client sites with me saying nothing. 2) If your screen is ugly, you have a problem. My screen looks better=20 than most Windows screens, and fonts render correctly in everything.=20 No, nothing has been compiled. This is all with packages in repositories. 3) This year I have been able to engage business to a level I never have=20 before, in considering Linux desktops for non-technical users. I have=20 several Proof of Concepts out that should convert into roll-outs. And I=20 have been selling Ubuntu "Guest PCs" quite well for some time now. 4) Drivers have changed quite a bit as well. Along with the CUPS stuff=20 above, nVidia drivers are auto-detected, and installed by clicking a=20 bubble that pops up. Several NICs work this way too. Trying to view a=20 file without a codec prompts you on what codec to install and how. Now this has not yet translated to a 50% market share, but it has made=20 the platform much more viable for people that don't care about=20 computers. And showing how easy my life is without Windows is the best=20 advertising. Do you know how impressive it is to print out my invoice=20 at the client site on their printer without looking for a disk or asking=20 for an IP address? (Or if you do, it is "Which one of your 6 HP 4220s=20 is that one? .22?") To someone that has only run Windows, this looks=20 like magic! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: franganghi (joered) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:16:11 -0000 Message-Id: after a fresh install, 70%-90% of the hw is working without installing any driver. direct download of any application you may need. email, chat, music, video, many tools and a full customizable gui on any workstation. torrent, edk, kad with a few clik. with 3 commands in a batch script you can backup your system for a disaster recovery. with rsync you can migrate a machine on another machine while it is running! and last but not least, you can share it with a friend without being pointed as a pirate! i personally think it is not comparable with any ms os! ciao franganghi 2008/2/20, houstonbofh : > > wyo wrote: > > It's now almost 2 year since I've written something about this bug here > > (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/62) and it's now about 1 > > year since I've lost fait that this bug will be solved before I die. Yet > > it's time to make a review if anything has changed regarding this bug. > > > > To draw a resume: Ubuntu has nothing achived in this last year. > > I guess you see what you want to see... I am sure my perception is > slightly biased as well, but I still have some points to counter. > > 1) Have you tried printing lately? With Gutsy, cups made a huge gain. > Now most HP and Xerox printers are auto-detected, even on the LAN, and > installed with no "searching." See me do thins with my laptop has > prompted a few "Wins" at client sites with me saying nothing. > > 2) If your screen is ugly, you have a problem. My screen looks better > than most Windows screens, and fonts render correctly in everything. > No, nothing has been compiled. This is all with packages in repositories. > > 3) This year I have been able to engage business to a level I never have > before, in considering Linux desktops for non-technical users. I have > several Proof of Concepts out that should convert into roll-outs. And I > have been selling Ubuntu "Guest PCs" quite well for some time now. > > 4) Drivers have changed quite a bit as well. Along with the CUPS stuff > above, nVidia drivers are auto-detected, and installed by clicking a > bubble that pops up. Several NICs work this way too. Trying to view a > file without a codec prompts you on what codec to install and how. > > Now this has not yet translated to a 50% market share, but it has made > the platform much more viable for people that don't care about > computers. And showing how easy my life is without Windows is the best > advertising. Do you know how impressive it is to print out my invoice > at the client site on their printer without looking for a disk or asking > for an IP address? (Or if you do, it is "Which one of your 6 HP 4220s > is that one? .22?") To someone that has only run Windows, this looks > like magic! > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Nemes Ioan Sorin (nemes-sorin) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:57:19 -0000 Message-Id: <47BC159F.7040105@gmail.com> he still has his right points. we advanced in manny points - on other points - we are in the past. we need to change some structural concepts. Nautilus for example [take a=20 look at pathFinder on Mac OR to Dolphin on KDE4 to see where the modern=20 file managers go..]. Gnome simplicity does not mean 'hi integration of=20 functionalities' ..yet. [ Also Nautilus take sometime 5-7-8 seconds to open a small folder.=20 Nautilus open quick a big ntfs partition and slow a desktop folder.] Gnome in general must offer advanced functionalities - then let user to=20 choose from - not to offer some 'ready made'layouts by a group which=20 think for the masses. So gnome must be more, more configurable. By default Gnome UI design is not 'user driven' but 'Gnome devs.=20 driven'. there are different functional needs for different groups of=20 users, we need to give them all - then they choose what they need and=20 hide the rest. This is a thinking level that Gnome / Ubuntu / linux in general must=20 reach in order to touch the normal user (for enterprise level situation=20 is different). Also - Printing system - is much better than in the past 2 years but=20 still not completely integrated into desktop - here are a lot of new=20 drivers too. On Hardy for example I have 3 icons for print (Gnome=20 Control Center) -> Printing, Printing and Default Printer. This is=20 confusing for an average user (an XP user for example). Why not a single=20 icon ( Printers / Faxes / Scanners ) with an UI where user can choose=20 step by step all things he / she need. Multimedia. Wrong Players. I use compiz now in my Hardy up to date. The=20 only player which can play well almost any multimedia file (music or=20 video) with compiz enabled or not. Totem the default player is less usable. Other video player does not work OK with compiz, only MPlayer -> until=20 you do some Pro settings. But simply users don't know to do those settings. They expect to click=20 and play. So I can't understand why the wxVLC is not default video player in Ubuntu. Rhythmbox default music player - is poor compared with the death Listen=20 or with Exaile. Why no one can see that - and reinvent Listen ?. I use a beta version=20 0.6 - not on the repos' which work perfect. Why this version is not on=20 the repositories ? Screen and Graphics is broken on Hardy, Videocard detection - broken,=20 language settings are broken, keyboard detection and sound are broken=20 too, device detection are in someway strange and worst than into Gutsy=20 (on Gutsy all of these work OK). A lot of things - now in alpha stage - must be fixed JUST to work as in=20 Gutsy, until the final release so ...too lite space for new=20 functionalities / features that will add Ubuntu on the 50% of world=20 desktops. I just started a big list of needed changes on structure / UI /=20 fundamental metaphors / + mockups. Finally I am curious if this huge effort will count somewhere in the=20 devel land. ..we will see, anyway I keep the fight but I have a moderate opinion,=20 because a lot of things are ...just not OK. houstonbofh wrote: > wyo wrote: >> It's now almost 2 year since I've written something about this bug here >> (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/62) and it's now about 1 >> year since I've lost fait that this bug will be solved before I die. Yet >> it's time to make a review if anything has changed regarding this bug. >> >> To draw a resume: Ubuntu has nothing achived in this last year. >=20 > I guess you see what you want to see... I am sure my perception is=20 > slightly biased as well, but I still have some points to counter. >=20 > 1) Have you tried printing lately? With Gutsy, cups made a huge gain.=20 > Now most HP and Xerox printers are auto-detected, even on the LAN, and = > installed with no "searching." See me do thins with my laptop has=20 > prompted a few "Wins" at client sites with me saying nothing. >=20 > 2) If your screen is ugly, you have a problem. My screen looks better=20 > than most Windows screens, and fonts render correctly in everything.=20 > No, nothing has been compiled. This is all with packages in repositories. >=20 > 3) This year I have been able to engage business to a level I never have = > before, in considering Linux desktops for non-technical users. I have=20 > several Proof of Concepts out that should convert into roll-outs. And I = > have been selling Ubuntu "Guest PCs" quite well for some time now. >=20 > 4) Drivers have changed quite a bit as well. Along with the CUPS stuff=20 > above, nVidia drivers are auto-detected, and installed by clicking a=20 > bubble that pops up. Several NICs work this way too. Trying to view a=20 > file without a codec prompts you on what codec to install and how. >=20 > Now this has not yet translated to a 50% market share, but it has made=20 > the platform much more viable for people that don't care about=20 > computers. And showing how easy my life is without Windows is the best=20 > advertising. Do you know how impressive it is to print out my invoice=20 > at the client site on their printer without looking for a disk or asking = > for an IP address? (Or if you do, it is "Which one of your 6 HP 4220s=20 > is that one? .22?") To someone that has only run Windows, this looks=20 > like magic! > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:20:29 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0802201420k138b710excc77cf82ee04c42c@mail.gmail.com> Wow ! Mr. O Wyss is one ticked-off user. Starting from the bottom. Mac O/SX which is "sloppy" at best is a Unix/Linux derivative and I've only used it when helping Mac owners, is not impressive. Is Ubuntu stalled ?? No . While the number of computer users grows wildly worldwide, especially here in Mexico , Ubuntu and other distros will not and can not keep pace. Microsoft and Macapple have marketing budgets derived from profits. Note, Ubuntu grows no monetary profit. If Ubuntu was sold for profit then it would change along with the support and the forums, like this one. Microsoft spawns parasites like Norton, McAfee and hosts of others, that help perpetuate Microsofts products. Ask any 'tech', Microsofts' poorly written software puts money in their pockets, "been there, done that". Spy-bots, trojans, viruses OH! the glory of Microsoft. Is Ubuntu growing ? Yes Mr Wyss, we are. Changing ? slowly. It will always be this way. IF Canonical could infuse 2-3 Billion USD or better Euros, into a marketing program, the change would be electrifying . How many Ubuntu users worldwide ? Using which version ? I've put Ubuntu not those below, on many systems. Ubuntu Editions [image: Kubuntu] [image: Edubuntu] [image: Xubuntu] [image: Gobuntu] see also : DistroWatch.com: Put the fun back into computing. Use Linux, BSD. Ubuntu has grown and will continue to grow, perhaps not at a pace that will satisfy many. And think "Linux" generally, many fellow users employ several distros. Join in regards, Allen (in Mazatlan Mexico, part of the Global Community) ********** On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 1:32 AM, wyo wrote: > It's now almost 2 year since I've written something about this bug here > (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/62) and it's now about 1 > year since I've lost fait that this bug will be solved before I die. Yet > it's time to make a review if anything has changed regarding this bug. > > To draw a resume: Ubuntu has nothing achived in this last year. It > couldn't gain anything on Windows, it only margially gained on other > Linux distributions and it even lost on MacOSX. > > How can anybody spend his spare time (his most precious live time) for a > project with doesn't make any progression! Nothing significant has been > achieved in this year. Windows ist still the vast leading system and > even seems to gain in some parts. Windows doesn't anymore trap that > often into a blue screen. Windows drivers are mostly delivered through > Windows Update and are mostly uptodate. And there are still countless of > Windows-only applications out there. > > There is still no easy usable Mailer/Calender/Communicator application > in Ubuntu. There are still only these horrible GTK+ applications > available. There are still countless driver problems when using new or > even sometime old hardware. Installing and accessing printers is still > something which often doesn't work. The display through X-server looks > awfull, fonts are more or less not viewable. > > I'm asking, does Ubuntu really plan to fix this short commings anytime > or has it given up? > > O. Wyss > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Confirmed > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Source Package "bum" in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in Source Package "casper" in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in Source Package "djplay" in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in Source Package "firefox" in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in Source Package "ubuntu-express" in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in Source Package "linux" in Debian GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > -- stop junk mail,look here: http://www.ambysoft.com/ideas/reduceJunkMail.html --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 03:16:01 -0000 Message-Id: <20080221031601.5091.60516.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Dell's Bug 73961 shows how Dell is (unintentionally?) contributing to Ubuntu Bug 1: "Make Ubuntu laptops cheaper than Windows laptops (in all countries)" http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/73961 I noted today via http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/02/20/dell-charges- ubuntu-vista that: "on Dell's cumbersome UK website the price of the cheapest Inspiron 1525 with Vista home premium is =C2=A3359. The same specification machine with Ubuntu is =C2=A3379." Sad but true. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: blackghost (doctormapache) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:27:20 -0000 Message-Id: <20080221162720.5191.59177.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> This bug is also very spread in Spain, I try to get a non OS computer for m= y sister in law, you should see the faces of the sellers going blue after m= y request (BODS blue to be precise. I=C2=B4m working in this bug refusing to become a free tech support for win= dows. if somebody comes to me to fix something windowes-related I politely = say that the only support I give is to Linux and Linux related products. If somebody is telling me to install pirate software I blantantly refuse an= d I told them about the free (on both senses) software. If a friend gives me a crushed computer to fix I install Ubuntu with no mer= cy as this is my fee. Also I recommend my friends to install free softare in their windows machin= es, Firefox and Open Office mainly, so they got the flavour of it. The best doesn=C2=B4t meant perfect but Linux could be better and better, l= et=C2=B4s market it as it deserves. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: verb3k (verb3k) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:22:39 -0000 Message-Id: <20080222102239.30674.86796.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> This bug is also really wide-spread where I live, the vast majority of people think of computers as "Windows XP" they don't even realize what an OS is and , devastatingly true, they don't even know that the copies of Windows they are using are pirated and unoriginal copies, which is really unfortunate :( Well, I am here helping the ubuntu community in the hope I will contribute to fix this bug, and I think this bug will eventually be solved ^_- --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Anders Pamdal (anders-pamdal) Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 14:49:20 -0000 Message-Id: <20080224144920.21941.98235.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> IMPORTANT: Include and enable btnx default in Ubuntu is one step closer to solve bug #1 ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1 ) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/146160 Regards, Anders Pamdal --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Adrian R Goalby (argoalby) Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 07:12:05 -0000 Message-Id: <20080229071205.7562.22960.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> 18 MONTHS TO FIX INSTALLER =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D I think this is the first bug that I have been interested in and actually seen fixed. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/90575 Its got 26 duplicates already, probably still more to come. First duplicate reported 2006-10-29 Marked as Fix Released 2008-02-29 Of course it won't actually be fixed until next release is made. I think there may even have been earlier bug reports about similar problems. I get the impression (whether right or wrong) that nothing is fixed in Ubuntu, it just inherits fixes from upstream, Debian or security alerts. Though it does generate some of its own special bugs, whenever it decides to diverge from upstream or Debian normal policies. This type of performance will really, really worry Microsoft, NOT. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: alpharay (wrongloop) Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 07:27:10 -0000 Message-Id: <47C7B436.4060300@gmail.com> I went to a Fry's store las weekend and the I asked a guy if "he" knew=20 if any webcam would work off the shelf, and he is like sorry dude --=20 You'll have to use whatever you have -- "I am like yea but I mean..."=20 sorry I can't help you. I am like okkkkk. and I just got an HP but didn't work so I installed=20 windows in my laptop which I don't use very much and is the only way to=20 use it and Podcasts. --I haven't been able to hear "podcasts" directly=20 from like MIT. Adrian R Goalby wrote: > 18 MONTHS TO FIX INSTALLER > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > I think this is the first bug that I have been interested in and > actually seen fixed. > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/90575 > Its got 26 duplicates already, probably still more to come. > First duplicate reported 2006-10-29 > Marked as Fix Released 2008-02-29 > Of course it won't actually be fixed until next release is made. > > I think there may even have been earlier bug reports about similar > problems. > > I get the impression (whether right or wrong) that nothing is fixed in > Ubuntu, it just inherits fixes from upstream, Debian or security alerts. > Though it does generate some of its own special bugs, whenever it > decides to diverge from upstream or Debian normal policies. > > This type of performance will really, really worry Microsoft, NOT. > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: ChrisTomalty (christomalty-deactivatedaccount) Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:15:29 -0000 Message-Id: <20080229151529.7942.14231.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> This bug has been observed in Tunisia. Internet cafe owners own many pirated installations of MS Windows, and the Tunisian government seems to ignore the problem. Even foreign companies (France's Baguette et Baguette particularely) are using pirated versions. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Todd Deshane (deshantm) Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 22:51:56 -0000 Message-Id: <20080229225156.7562.7663.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> alpharay: https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl) Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 12:53:10 -0000 Message-Id: <47C951B6.6010407@canonical.com> Adrian R Goalby wrote: > I get the impression (whether right or wrong) that nothing is fixed in > Ubuntu, it just inherits fixes from upstream, Debian or security alerts. > =20 A quick look in the bug database suggests there are 155,000 bugs ever=20 reported against Ubuntu, and 46,000 marked fixed. That's from a team of=20 30 full time engineers and about 100 committed volunteers, an amazing=20 effort by people who care about Ubuntu. We do try to work closely with both upstream and Debian. In a=20 collaborative ecosystem like the free software world, it is most=20 efficient if each team is an expert in their field and there are really=20 excellent tools for collaboration. This way, work happens where people=20 are best suited to it, but good work is not trapped in one community, it=20 spreads quickly throughout the ecosystem. Each upstream has people totally focused on that one component - they=20 know more about it than anyone else. The piece of the puzzle that we=20 most care about is the integration of those components into a coherent=20 role. We see our contribution to the free software ecosystem primarily=20 in providing a *release platform* on a predictable basis, against which=20 folks can do development and deployment. It makes much more sense for us=20 to specialize in that piece, because we have a real competence for it,=20 and it requires generalists which is how I would describe our community=20 and team. A bug reported against Inkscape in Ubuntu is very likely to be=20 something that affects other communities and so needs to be looked at=20 upstream, where the expertise in that codebase resides. Of course,=20 Ubuntu users and developers will try to assess if the bug relates to=20 packaging, in which case it is probably best analyzed by Ubuntu or=20 Debian developers, depending on who did that work. In case you think Ubuntu doesn't make any contribution to those upstream=20 projects and Debian, I would urge you to look at the relevant bug=20 trackers, and search for patches contributed by Ubuntu developers. A=20 huge amount of code is produced during the integration and testing part=20 of building Ubuntu, and most of that flows to upstream and/or Debian.=20 Though it isn't always well received, we do make a huge effort to=20 cultivate a culture of work passing upstream. I don't mean to ask you to change your opinion, only to point out that=20 one could draw different conclusions from a look at the actual data. And=20 if you are willing to return the favour of Ubuntu, you might want to=20 join the Ubuntu Bug Squad at https://edge.launchpad.net/~bugsquad and=20 triage a few bugs a day. Mark --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Adrien Cordonnier (adrien-cordonnier) Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 15:14:37 -0000 Message-Id: <20080301151437.7562.70896.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Many comments Ubuntu's missing functionalities. Indeed, the bug report suggests a better usability will fix this bug. It is just hard for techies to realise this bug is about economy and consumer rights, not about technology. Installing Ubuntu on a Windows computer will never fix the problem: Microsoft will still have 100% MARKET share even if its USER share decreases. There is only one way to fix this bug: being able to refuse Microsoft EULAs and not to pay for it; being able to buy ANY computer without accepting a CONTRACT; not having to PAY for terms we do not agree with. In the last few months, three French people came to court [1]. They asked to be refunded for Windows and other software according the EULA refusal conditions. They won. The courts ruled they must be refunded between 100 and 300 Euro for the software. The prices are based on OEM retail prices and amounted up to 60% of the total price. When consumers will consider installing Ubuntu to save several hundreds Euro, they may prefer this option even if they think the functionalities are not as good. If you are French, a how-to [2] has been released to explain refund process and proceeding. If you live in a free country, you can similarly try to refuse EULAs and ask to send the software back such as mentioned in the EULAs. Then you may have to go to court if you cannot get a refund or a decent price or decent return conditions. If you live in a non-free country, you may be clamped to agree to Microsoft terms to buy the computer of your choice, even if you use Ubuntu. [1] http://www.aful.org/communiques/multiplication-proces-remboursement-rac= keticiels/ [French] [2] http://www.racketiciel.info/guide [French] --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Nemes Ioan Sorin (nemes-sorin) Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2008 14:48:05 -0000 Message-Id: <47CABE25.5050502@gmail.com> In addition to Mark... Well it was a time when I was tired by reporting bugs and receiving back=20 messages like - your report has multiple keypoints inside - please make=20 a detailed report for each one and send him to the corresponding team ... Pretty annoying yeah ? - maybe 5 from 100 will follow the recommended way. Because I don't like to renounce, In I tried to adapt to their=20 (imperfect in my mind) model and guess what. We adapt both. Yes - in time I learn Linux (becoming a linux geek) and=20 they learn from their inevitable(for a new baby born)=20 mistakes(communicational + other nature). So I can see the empathy working here - they work hard to adapt and=20 improve communication with users ( bug reporting, patching, wish lists,=20 etc ) - and we realize that the things are in change pretty fast, and we=20 are a part of this process. My tired face is not automatically set from=20 now one when I see a problem - instead I know if I report that problem -=20 if is a true problem - they will solve that as soon as they can. Now Ubuntu is a Linux territory where the battle for the future of=20 computing is on it's big fires. Bugs, flame wars, frustrations,=20 brilliant but unseen ideas - all are here (it's a place where Natural=20 Selection Live) and is normal for an concept who want to change in=20 better a part of this world. After my first steps I understand they know about imperfections - but=20 any problem has it's own time, and things are changing fast here. For example : I prepared some screen shoots and some txt files to report=20 2 nasty bugs form me ( after each login -> a pop up with "language EN_US=20 did not exist ..." and a bug regarding fglrx and impossibility to set a=20 default screen resolution ..from gconf OR xorg.conf - because always=20 Ubuntu choose the biggest resolution for me and was nasty ...). Before I=20 was able to send my reports -> after a daily upgrade I see they where fixed. So mr. Adrian or other like - solution is not to blame or to numbering (=20 time wasted activities ) - solution is to help if you can OR to wait for=20 a better future coming in a batter day (hoping until then that a brave=20 soul will win all nasty battles for you). About M$ bug -> don't forget M$ has over 70.000 employees - and they do=20 What ?. Innovations ? - ah yes Innovations - they all like to talk about=20 that(all time if I remember well)- but I'm waiting on the last 100 years=20 or some too see some really new ...(I think I'm a bit blind here or my=20 memory lost some RAM, sorry this is my fault) - Better software ?=20 ..please tell me one or 2 pieces. Hardware yes - I read an old Morse=20 code message talking about M$ hiQ PC components (mouses, keyboards,=20 audio systems) - and I believe that. But about software - they never listen final client, simply M$ user -=20 because - in their vision not the client should make rules for the=20 future - only M$ rules, M$ standards, world can be a M$ world or can not=20 be at all... Or according to my vision - peoples / clients / users must dictate=20 Software Future not a people or 2, from some dark office. The first affirmation is the Ubuntu way. Maybe not perfect yet - but=20 it's an idea that's OK to die for. I remember I wrote mails / sign petitions few years as a webdesigner to=20 complain about IE big problems. No M$ ear hear. When Firefox rise, what we see ? - a Galactic Revolution. All M$ peoples=20 that can carry a gun( even some womans ..it's a legend now), start to=20 work on IE 19 / 24 to erase the enemy. Or this is not a sign of a big, respectable company(and I know what i say). I was nothing until Firefox, then automatically M$ hear my voice "...=20 loud and clear" an we become instantly friends - we change our phone=20 numbers, and we call each other by nicknames (Don' ask me now for Bill=20 phone nr. - I promise him to keep this number secret [ free only for IE=20 users ..but their number decrease as the seconds gone ..I don't remember=20 to see any one here ...from the last week ]). So in 3 words - I prefer to die on the light side - with all their=20 imperfections - instead of being a gray slave for a dark master.=20 Certainly, here I feel I'm in life. I have bugs - yes, but I have freedom also. Dark side slaves (still)had bugs, But they had walls around also. Which is better ?. Think about liberation now ... Well that said -> back to killing / reporting bugs / writing blueprints=20 / make wish lists / drink coffee /..and so - cigar pause is over. ;) Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > Adrian R Goalby wrote: >> I get the impression (whether right or wrong) that nothing is fixed in >> Ubuntu, it just inherits fixes from upstream, Debian or security alerts. >> =20 > A quick look in the bug database suggests there are 155,000 bugs ever=20 > reported against Ubuntu, and 46,000 marked fixed. That's from a team of=20 > 30 full time engineers and about 100 committed volunteers, an amazing=20 > effort by people who care about Ubuntu. >=20 > We do try to work closely with both upstream and Debian. In a=20 > collaborative ecosystem like the free software world, it is most=20 > efficient if each team is an expert in their field and there are really=20 > excellent tools for collaboration. This way, work happens where people=20 > are best suited to it, but good work is not trapped in one community, it = > spreads quickly throughout the ecosystem. >=20 > Each upstream has people totally focused on that one component - they=20 > know more about it than anyone else. The piece of the puzzle that we=20 > most care about is the integration of those components into a coherent=20 > role. We see our contribution to the free software ecosystem primarily=20 > in providing a *release platform* on a predictable basis, against which=20 > folks can do development and deployment. It makes much more sense for us = > to specialize in that piece, because we have a real competence for it,=20 > and it requires generalists which is how I would describe our community=20 > and team. A bug reported against Inkscape in Ubuntu is very likely to be = > something that affects other communities and so needs to be looked at=20 > upstream, where the expertise in that codebase resides. Of course,=20 > Ubuntu users and developers will try to assess if the bug relates to=20 > packaging, in which case it is probably best analyzed by Ubuntu or=20 > Debian developers, depending on who did that work. >=20 > In case you think Ubuntu doesn't make any contribution to those upstream = > projects and Debian, I would urge you to look at the relevant bug=20 > trackers, and search for patches contributed by Ubuntu developers. A=20 > huge amount of code is produced during the integration and testing part=20 > of building Ubuntu, and most of that flows to upstream and/or Debian.=20 > Though it isn't always well received, we do make a huge effort to=20 > cultivate a culture of work passing upstream. >=20 > I don't mean to ask you to change your opinion, only to point out that=20 > one could draw different conclusions from a look at the actual data. And = > if you are willing to return the favour of Ubuntu, you might want to=20 > join the Ubuntu Bug Squad at https://edge.launchpad.net/~bugsquad and=20 > triage a few bugs a day. >=20 > Mark > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Philippe Coval (rzr) Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 08:04:20 -0000 Message-Id: <20080303080421.4081.41334.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Adrien Cordonnier wrote on 2008-03-01: > [1] http://www.aful.org/communiques/multiplication-proces-remboursement-r= acketiciels/ [French] > [2] http://www.racketiciel.info/guide [French] Here are English version of the site : * http://www.racketware.info Also a map was created to show that the problem is worldwide : * http://frappr.com/oem (sorry swf) Good luck --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: ubuntusky (ubuntuskyx) Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 09:27:20 -0000 Message-Id: <20080303092720.20719.42344.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> the idea of creating a option into Ubuntu that would give choice between "Expert" and "Beginner" would be very interesting. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: SneakyWho_am_i (sneakywho-am-i) Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 06:18:12 -0000 Message-Id: <20080304061813.13048.52095.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Various thoughts after reading the first 120 comments on this bug... Yes, games are a big, big issue. To really convert to Ubuntu, you need to f= orget how to use Windows (well, ok, not forget, but when you look at "C:\>"= it should be disorienting and confusing).... Many Ubuntu converts still have Windows for games. Sad but true, I can only= give anecdotal evidence, but it's a popular reason for dual booting. Belie= ve it or not, Dual booting may be part of the problem ;p ... I used to be a= gamer and this was me. I haven't used Windows in at least six months, exce= pt occasionally at work. My life is better for it. So, games.... There are great games available for Linux, largely from ID Software and the likes..... They don't do the whole "autorun" thing though (as far as I can recall) and that's a big handicap. I used illegal copies of Windows for many years, often dual booting. I tried many times to switch to Xandros, Red Hat (3 . 1), Mandrake 8 (which I paid eighty bucks for, complete with a pretty box, a user guide and a refernce handbook) and other distributions. I tried Dragonlinux when it first came out, which installs on a virtual filesystem up to two gigabytes in size on your Dos/Win98 disk, has KDE2 or something and no sound, and runs slower than..... a slow thing. The above of course in no particular order. None of those satisfied. Windows never satisfied me either, and I moved from Windows 95 to 98 to 2000 to ME (then back to 2000 cause ME was RUBBISH), and then finally (reluctantly) to (illegal like everything before it) XP. And yes, I filled out surveys from time to time - what Operating System do you have at your place? Windows. It's the only thing I don't screw up after a week. Now, though? Yeah I'm using Ubuntu full on. No longer Ultraedit and Winamp,= now Kate and Amarok. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DKRegExpEditor has saved my life.=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D .... - I use it daily. Here's my suggestion for a fix. Installing Ubuntu on old computers seems li= ke a logical step because it creates a support crew for new users. It's great, but it's not the answer. First up, the fight isn't really for Ubuntu proper to come out on top. No. = It's free software. Forcing everyone to use one distribution would be just = as bad as forcing everyone to use Windows (OK OK it so wouldn't but run wit= h me for a sec) The end doesn't justify the means. A level playing field in the OS market i= s not going to be brought about by putting all your eggs in the Ubuntu bask= et. Debian, Suse, Mandrake, Red Hat... To varying extents, they are all also free software. They are not your enemies. They have a common enemy (or two) and when you tell people that Suse is shitty, you're doing nothing to help the open source cause. Suse is excellent. I don't use it, but that's my personal preference. Linux is just best for everyone. Linux is best for _me_. I need a variety o= f tools to perform serious development and documentation work. I can get th= ose tools on Linux for nothing, halving the Total Cost of Technology owners= hip. I still don't really wholly understand what's going on on my own machines, = but I can't afford to buy the things I need on Windows, and I don't think t= hat I should be allowed to use them without paying. People should be able to reap the benefits of their work. Windows is worth every cent, it's just a shame that using it doubles the price of a computer and I can't afford that. Yes, Windows is entrenched and locked in. What is needed to move it? User c= onversion? Well... Yes. But Windows can do things that Linux can't. And vice versa. Even if that we= re not true, that's how it looks when you try to convert. Perhaps if all I'= d ever used was Linux, it wouldn't look that way to me. Therefore Windows users will never really be satisfied, and Linux will neve= r perform for them, unless they have someone more skilled with it (read: ra= ised-on-Linux) to show them the ropes. Use in schools is not going to convert the kids themselves. Kids don't care= (mostly) and won't remember. I was quite bright at school but in my classr= oom we had a computer with a monochrome screen and no mouse..... Hey, I sti= ll don't have a clue what was installed, could have been a Commodore or Ami= ga or........ Man it could have been sent by space aliens for all I knew. I= t's not like Primary school kids get superuser accounts on the classroom co= mputers anyway, now, is it? If open source operating systems wish to follow in proprietary footsteps and take a proportional and suitable market share, then they're going to have to follow in proprietary footsteps. Windows's success appears to be partially that it came preinstalled on new 386 and 486 boxes. A whole generation converted in one hit. The proper approach to resolving this bug is to use the same strategy. No g= uerilla warfare; if you want to make an omelette, you're going to have to b= reak some eggs. Converting computer salesmen is the right way to go about it. Abusing them = for refusing to install it is great fun, but it probably just makes us look= crazy. WHY can't they sell Windows-less boxes?? Probably in part it's because of Dell-like sales strategies. These computer= places are really just buying their hardware from other computer places (u= pstream) and therefore are fakes and shouldn't be expected to have the expe= rtise to configure operating systems anyway. No, they were just nerds at sc= hool and think they know everything ;) As an entrepreneuer you need to find a way to cut the cost of your stock an= d your consumables. A good way, if you're retailing, is simply to find a ch= eap supplier. A good example of a cheap supplier with quality components is Dell. Why are= Dells so cheap? How come they have so much bundled software at such a low = price?? Dell's marketing strategy hijacks the lock-in strategy. Windows is preinstalled. And other commercial products are installed to inn= oculate the user base and increase exposure. You have my permission at this point to jump up off your chair and shout "A= dvertising!!" Yes, it is advertising. That's why it's so cheap. Dell, in installing all t= his proprietary software, is being paid for it as a kind of advertisement-p= ublishing system. This also explains why some computers come preinstalled with a lot of useless CRAP. So your local computer store, depending on where they get their computers, = is not actually capable of uninstalling Windows - at all. It probably comes= preinstalled on the machine before they buy it as a kind of cost cutting m= echanism. The salesman cant' tell you that because he: - doesn't know or - is stupid or - is paid to just sell Windows or - would be giving away some kind of inside information If the computer has "made for Windows Virus" written on its badges, it was probably assembled by the computer shop's manufacturer, in my opinion. Probably a Microsoft Certified Distributor, or something. You have to go up the chain. Who is supplying the computer shop? Can you convince them to create and act= ively market a computer with free software on it? Can they make money off o= f that? How? Once computers can be in computer stores with Linux installed, if Linux is = really all that we believe it to be, then people will see them side by side= and pick the superior system (at THIS point we need to kick computer sales= men in the pants) if a manufacturer were to move enough boxes with Ubuntu preinstalled INTO r= etail stores, it would be a breakthrough and probably correct about 7000 li= nes for this bug. They need motivation to do this. Where is it going to com= e from? Canonical? Does Canonical push manufacturers to release Ubuntu preinstalled on their h= ardware? Is this cheaper than WIndows in the long run for a manufacturer?? Ubuntu in the long run will be suitable for everyone, and not just Microsof= t employees. Why? Because it was created by everyone, and not just Microsof= t employees. Marketing and interface won't do it though unless it is right = there in people's faces. Joe Bloggs is not going to go to all the effort of= ditching Windows to try out some unpopular and experimental Operating syst= em, but to be in the cool crowd he might buy it if it's preinstalled on his= first computer and $400 cheaper. The computer manufacturer normally installs the OS, in my mind. Remember th= at. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 08:34:44 -0000 Message-Id: <20080304083445.4219.96404.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> "SneakyWho_am_i" wrote: "if a manufacturer were to move enough boxes with Ubuntu preinstalled INTO retail stores, it would be a breakthrough and probably correct about 7000 lines for this bug. They need motivation to do this. Where is it going to come from?" I note that Dell recently announced (http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/corp/pressoffice/en/2007/20= 07_10_22_rr_000) that it will be selling their systems in retail stores (e.g. here in Canada Staples recently announced that they are selling Dells). As they're the only major OEM to ship Linux systems to average users, I suggest that we consider them the primary focus for our efforts. Consider Dell's Ideastorm Idea #103088: Get GNU/Linux Machines in Retail Stores http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/103088/Get_GNULinux_Machines_in_Retai= l_Stores --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: SneakyWho_am_i (sneakywho-am-i) Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 14:23:49 -0000 Message-Id: <20080304142349.8938.56585.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Ha! Conrad, you're so right! I apologize for my ignorance, and for looking past your comments earlier, you're so right, more has been committed there than what I thought! If at times Dell has sold Ubuntu-ified systems at higher prices, that's not ideal but if someone at least is prepared to ship them, I think that's a really positive step. Of course, new computers may not be able to install by themselves. A couple of common themes I see here - you may or may not agree - interoperability and availability. But yes, Dell, offering Ubuntu systems, retail stores!! Here in New Zealand we all get Dell circulars in the post constantly. Amusingly, if you buy the parts yourself you can easily undercut them ;) (as in easy to find cheap parts, not easy to file the #$^ paperwork). They all come with Windows!! I had no idea that somewhere in the world (here also, I now assume) they're selling Linux boxes. The point about running a lot of portable (as in cross platform) applications in Windows by default so that the desktop which users are inoculated with is reproducible on a free system is also a good one (the Police). If we are going to sit on the individual desktop level, then OpenOffice.org= and the likes are important of course - a clear advantage lies in the cons= istent interface. And Firefox. We all know why so many people use Internet Explorer. I'm a we= bmaster and want to see the end of it just because it behaves so differentl= y to all the other browsers. I need to write two copies of every page - one= clean version and one IE version - important to note here: II am one of the crazy people who believe that Internet Explorer is deliber= ately made to be a terrible browser, so that webmasters are forced to waste= time and effort coding for the lowest common denominator. Webmasters make web applications. If we didn't have to waste so much time, money and effort coding for IE wit= h its bugs and lack of basic decade-old standards support, our web applicat= ions could be as responsive and usable as desktop applications. GMail as it= is now would be rather average and uninteresting. When all your applicatio= ns run from your browser, why do you need a fancy operating system at all? So anyway.... Yeah, manufacturers shipping operating systems I think will increase the re= tail availability in a far more effective way than converting individuals o= r Small-Medium-Enterprises. I believe that's how Microsoft did it... So to = basically repeat things that Conrad has said, here are some interesting lin= ks on the subject: http://linux.dell.com/ http://www.dell.com/open/ http://www.dell.com/linux That's pretty cool and I'm very excited to learn about it!! I understand that it may be difficult for manufacturers to install free sof= tware as they lose that advertising revenue in doing so: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell#Second_attempt_in_2007 Hewlett Packard is thinking about doing similar: http://crn.com/hardware/197800591 These may also be notable, sorry for link spam: http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23168/ http://lxer.com/module/db/index.php?dbn=3D14 Can physical retailers be motivated to buy "Linux boxes" from online vendors? Ultimately that can mean creating a generation of users who have never even touched Windows... Which could result in more code being written, more commits in Launchpad, more user-contributed documentation..?? (but for the law of diminishing returns and all that) I haven't read even this whole thread, let alone tried to read up on the marketing strategy in these parts, but in my simple mind, moving from the top down (manufacturer) is cool. I reckon that subtle infiltration of "plug and play" supply will lead to the exposure that creates demand. I tried to talk to an American friend today on the internet and she asked: " (17:39:18) username: yes but whats ubuntu? " :) I sometimes wouldn't mind seeing: " username2: yes but whats windows? " Also a typo in my last comment (a big one), I meant to say that it's NOT for everyone, but IS for me. I love free software. I create very humble scripts in php and suchlike myse= lf, and some of my work is decidedly NOT free. I agree, people should be ab= le to charge whatever they want to sell their hard work. But I don't have the money to pay for that sort of thing. Software like Ubuntu allows me to own a computer without breaking the law d= aily to use it (not that I could be forced to break the law, it's a person'= s own choice to break the law when they do so). Help fix intellectual property issues and piracy, ESPECIALLY Windows. Help = developers to get whatever is specified in the software license. Everyone s= eems to think that software piracy can be OK if you don't get caught, or ca= n't afford it. It's not. Microsoft's developers ask payment for use of thei= r software and have every right to it. our friends will look at you like yo= u're crazy if you try to get them to remove the illegal software but theft = is theft...... I'm sure that none of us would like to have others stealing = our work, so everyone including Microsoft benefits if software piracy beco= mes socially unacceptable - just speculation. I wonder if the acceptability of software piracy is due in part to the vill= ainization of software monopolies and record companies?? :) I should shut up now. Thanks again for the info Conrad. This is hard for me to type but I suspect= that my next new computer might be a Dell ;) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: ^rooker (rooker) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 21:49:30 -0000 Message-Id: <20080305214930.17244.39039.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> The university of Vienna (Austria) offers a current workaround for this bug: http://www.univie.ac.at/ZID/ubook-software-ubuntu/ (german only. sorry) They offer notebooks with pre-installed operating systems, but also include a free OS: Ubuntu Gutsy. : ) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Rainer Eli (claushellsing) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 23:26:18 -0000 Message-Id: <20080305232618.17090.53433.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> In Nicaragua the groups of linux user impulsed by the Ubuntu-Ni group promove the open source with a iniciative called LINUX TOUR that promove the open source aroud the country. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alfred J.Tims (t1nt1n) Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 14:40:09 -0000 Message-Id: <20080309144009.882.26598.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Bug's can mutate into cannibals according to biotechnological research ! This is exactly what is happening in one of the strongholds(incubators) of Microsoft - Finland (incidentally, also the birthplace of the GNU/Linux kernel). Frantic measures are being taken by both Microsoft and it's stooges in Finland to try and curb this mutant behaviour of the bug they have been breeding. The Finnish Prime Minister Mr.Vanhanen was recently on a crash visit to Redmond,WA to meet Mr.Gates, who gifted 'him' a special version of Windows for use in schools and colleges, to enhance 'innovation' as usual ! In reality the gift was intended to keep those thoroughly disappointed with the mutant(VISTA) at bay. Much to Mr.Vanhanen's regret he has come under fire from more educated people in Finnish society - who say that he has swallowed a fishing-hook. Further, a leading Finnish bank SAMPO got it's fingers bitten and bleeding = by this mutant bug, and decided to fall back on using WindowsXP again. Even= if it has been proven to lack security and stability - at least it won't b= ite their fingers(so they think) ! Wish they educated themselves about Ubuntu, it is free after all ! =20 We are drawing closer my fellow Ubunteros to exterminating this bug. Keep faith, watch our flanks, and keep that torch that 'sabdfl' lit - waving high ! Freedom is our right, and we will have it !!! Long live Ubuntu. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Dennis Murczak (dmurczak) Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 19:26:56 -0000 Message-Id: <20080309192656.24605.94232.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Considering how Linux has indeed made some impact in the consumer market during the last months, and Microsoft is meanwhile approaching debt because it still thinks it can just "buy" innovation, maybe we should change the bug's status to "In Progress"? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: wyo (otto-wyss) Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 20:22:18 -0000 Message-Id: <20080309202218.1038.38322.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> > A quick look in the bug database suggests there are 155,000 bugs ever > reported against Ubuntu, and 46,000 marked fixed. That's from a team of > 30 full time engineers and about 100 committed volunteers, an amazing > effort by people who care about Ubuntu. I do not question the work and effort done by Ubuntu engineers and volunteers nor do I question anything done by Debian or any other OpenSource project. It's a tremendous achievement worth any respect. Yet I do questions the result of this effort. It seems regardless how much effort ever is spent it has no effect at all on Microsoft's market share. Microsoft's position is even stronger than it was 2 years ago. It has the power to press a horrible UI (Office 2007) onto users without any market share impact. Microsoft still isn't pressed to do anything improving Outlook except providing sync SW for smart phones etc. On the other side Microsoft can threaten to overpower Mozilla and IMO it's just a matter of time when IE will take over the lead again pressing Silverlight onto us. Microsoft has done much to improve Windows and I do fear it's also just a matter of time when Windows will start threatening Linux on servers as well. Just let me show you another sample. Most web developers don't have the time caring for multiple browsers. So they develop just for their most used user's browser (you know which this currently is) hopping it will do for others as well. Sure the other browsers manufactures are pressed to cope with this situations, absorbing many unnecessary resources. Yet if you give these web developers a tool which helps them doing their work faster/easier/nicer they will start using it. And if this tool cares for correct web code as a side effect, all browser manufactures are much less pressed and can use these resources for other tasks. Back to Bug #1 and the desktop. In 2005 the then called OSDL made a survey why the Linux desktop each year was announced but never became true (http://old.linux- foundation.org/dtl/DTL_Survey_Report_Nov2005.pdf). Yet even if reasons now where obvious, nothing happened. The full OpenSource community kept going on as before, neglecting this survey completely. Not even an additional survey to dig deeper was done. So IMHO regardless how much effort the Ubuntu and Debian community ever will spend there's no chance to ever make any progress regarding Bug #1. I showed a possible way out of this situation 2 years ago, but I'm not anymore sure if it isn't already too late. I am positive that it's possible to prevent Microsoft domination in the web yet quite some effort is needed. But again it seems the OpenSource community isn't able to to take the right steps. O. Wyss --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 07:02:56 -0000 Message-Id: <20080310070256.6064.49935.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> wyo: I can understand your frustration, but its not as bad as you describe and there are certain factual points I take issue with. (oh and BTW I got a 502 error on the URL you posted; is it the same as https://www.linux- foundation.org/images/3/3b/DTL_Survey_Report_Nov2005.pdf ?) First: "It seems regardless how much effort ever is spent it has no effect at all on Microsoft's market share." There are two metrics you can use for that: (1) the first is new computers sold. The situation has improved recently, most notably with Dell doing Ubuntu preloads (in the U.S., U.K., France, Germany, Canada, Latin America and now China: http://limulus.wordpress.com/2008/02/24/dell-continues-to-expand-its- ubuntu-sales-area/) and the rise of low end systems (e.g. gPC @ $200 US) and sub-notebook (e.g. Eee PC; see http://limulus.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/153/ I also note HP is planning a similar system: http://apcmag.com/8342/hp_preps_eee_pc_killer with a Linux version that's supposed to be quite a bit ($150 or ~25%) cheaper than the Vista version, probably due to a combination of reduced hardware requirements and a free OS). In order to really crack the MS monopoly there has to be significant inroads here. (2) the second is the overall market share (as in what is actually installed on computers right now, irrespective of what they were sold with) and that's where Desktop Linux has the bulk of its market share. What I have noticed is that just about every technically-inclined person online (I'm going to define that as someone who can install an OS... that rules out most 'average users' IMHO) has at least head of Ubuntu and a very large percentage have tried it. Any computer not up to Vista *realistic* requirements (so... manufactured before 2007 unless heavily upgraded ;) is an excellent candidate for Ubuntu. When my neighbor (a nice older lady) bought herself a used computer (with Windows 98) several years ago I ended up doing tech support for it (or, as I recall, more like babysitting that machine). I imagine that most people who have tried Ubuntu end up getting asked for help with others' PCs. When she was in the market for a new computer a couple years ago I made sure that the first thing we did was to put Ubuntu on it. My primary reason to go over there now is to get her system to install new versions every half year (though she did the last one by herself via the update manager; I was so impressed! :-) and to deal with Bug #83286 (but its an easy fix :). I think it is reasonable that a lot of XP systems will get a second life this way. I also think that a strong base has been built here, though I would like to hear some recent numbers about the number of Ubuntu users out there. Second: "Microsoft's position is even stronger than it was 2 years ago." I think the opposite; previously Microsoft had XP and people were happy enough with it because of resistance to change. Microsoft still ran ads about how great XP was. After Vista was released, things didn't go very good at all. The switch was flipped and suddenly Vista was 'the most secure Windows ever' and so Microsoft basically admitted that yes, XP wasn't really secure at all. But Vista wasn't a prize itself and (as I mentioned earlier) had significantly increased hardware requirements. Microsoft has anti-trust worries in the EU. Apple is selling a *lot* of systems. "It has the power to press a horrible UI (Office 2007) onto users without any market share impact." The UI of Office 2007 isn't the important thing about it, its the default document format. I am glad to say that MS might not get its DOCX made into an ISO standard, but we shall see (keep an eye on http://www.groklaw.net/ for updates). "Microsoft can threaten to overpower Mozilla" But Microsoft is losing the second browser war! Regardless of the source, if you look at Firefox's market share year-to-year (month-to- month can be volatile), FF continues to climb against IE. Here's a nice graph I made of the stats from the data on w3schools.com (actual numbers are only for that site, but the trends are there) http://members.shaw.ca/Limulus/files/w3sbw2-0801.png IE7 adoption has plateaued, web-wide quite possibly at a level below IE6. S= ee also: http://limulus.wordpress.com/2007/10/04/microsoft-must-be-hurting-for-marke= t-share-no-more-wga-for-ie7/ IE6+7 continues to drop as FF rises. See also: http://limulus.wordpress.com/2007/11/17/jancos-browser-wars-graph-1997-2007/ Further crunching the numbers from that site, it looks like a LOT of the Vista adopters (>50%) use Firefox: http://limulus.wordpress.com/2008/02/09/w3schools-firefox-marches-on- in-2008/ "and IMO it's just a matter of time when IE will take over the lead again pressing Silverlight onto us." Silverlight is an interesting problem; I really think that Adobe might have= to GPL it to save Flash from Microsoft; but as much as MS wants it to beco= me a Flash killer, I don't think IE itself will get it here; e.g. Have you = seen the European browser stats? http://limulus.wordpress.com/2008/01/26/xitimonitor-browser-data-microsoft-= has-effectively-lost-control-of-australia-and-half-of-europe/ They'll have to convince Firefox users to install it and that's a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem for MS. "Microsoft has done much to improve Windows and I do fear it's also just a matter of time when Windows will start threatening Linux on servers as well." Hasn't MS always 'threatened' Linux on servers? But to raise a point I read elsewhere, what major web companies (e.g. Google, Yahoo, etc.) that aren't MS use MS servers? To bring up a point MS loves to try to twist in its favor, the TCO of MS servers is far greater. Basically so long as MS charges for its software, software libre will survive. But right now its doing better than that IMHO, so cheer up a bit :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alfred J.Tims (t1nt1n) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 10:57:44 -0000 Message-Id: <20080310105744.557EB233C1@ws5-3.us4.outblaze.com> Hi Otto, > I do not question the work and effort done by Ubuntu engineers and > volunteers nor do I question anything done by Debian or any other > OpenSource project. It's a tremendous achievement worth any respect. People who don't respect themselves, certainly cannot respect the 'PRODUCTI= VE EFFORTS' of others ! The work done by the free-software and open-source communities deserves a 1= 00 Billion tonnes of respect my fellow human-being.=20 Further, this work is done from the heart dear friend, for fellow mankind -= not just for the money !! > It seems regardless how much > effort ever is spent it has no effect at all on Microsoft's market > share. Strange seems you read too much of Microsoft propaganda, the bull about TCO, blah, blah.. !! > Microsoft's position is even stronger than it was 2 years ago. It has > the power to press a horrible UI (Office 2007) onto users without any > market share impact. =20 Believe me, Microsoft has laid its own tombstone with VISTA and DRM, my pos= t 18 hours ago might 'ENLIGHTEN' you about this. The reports quoted by me a= re 'factual evidence'. > So IMHO regardless how much effort the Ubuntu and Debian community ever > will spend there's no chance to ever make any progress regarding Bug #1. > I showed a possible way out of this situation 2 years ago, but I'm not > anymore sure if it isn't already too late. I am positive that it's > possible to prevent Microsoft domination in the web yet quite some > effort is needed. But again it seems the OpenSource community isn't able > to to take the right steps. Otto, Ubuntu and Debian are making 'HEADWAYS' which you seem to be totally = ignorant of ! Personally, I would strongly suggest you did some serious rea= ding before you go about 'SPAMMING' this sacred forum with Microsoft propag= anda ! Wish you well.=20 =20 =3D Nantucket vacations NYTimes.com has articles and advice to help you plan your next trip. http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=3Dc918c1126a1429198d526= 0f0de87b02f --=20 Powered by Outblaze --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:59:07 -0000 Message-Id: <47D54CBB.4010003@hal-pc.org> wyo wrote: >> A quick look in the bug database suggests there are 155,000 bugs ever >> reported against Ubuntu, and 46,000 marked fixed. That's from a team of >> 30 full time engineers and about 100 committed volunteers, an amazing >> effort by people who care about Ubuntu. >=20 > I do not question the work and effort done by Ubuntu engineers and > volunteers nor do I question anything done by Debian or any other > OpenSource project. It's a tremendous achievement worth any respect. Yet > I do questions the result of this effort. It seems regardless how much > effort ever is spent it has no effect at all on Microsoft's market > share. It seems that everything I posted back on February 20th in response to=20 your last post still applies...=20 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/580 You still see=20 only what you want to see, and nothing else. Why? Since I was=20 wondering, I followed your links until I came to your "Cross Platform"=20 site. So it seems you have an agenda... (Stalled for over a year=20 http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=3Dwyoguide-users)=20 An agenda that others seem to find unworkable, so you continue to beat=20 them over the head. I think you have it backwards. Ubuntu and Open=20 Source have made amazing strides in the past 2 years, and your project=20 has not moved. You might want to revisit your own ideas before casting=20 stones at others... I actually think your concept is sound, but you do=20 it a disservice by presenting it like this. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: wyo (otto-wyss) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 10:43:41 -0000 Message-Id: <20080311104342.9067.29514.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Sure wyoGuide is stalled. Since especially the Portland group isn't interested, there's no sense in keeping it going on. Besides I've delved into other regions and don't have the necessary time anymore. If you are interested in wyoGuide, it's OSS you may have it. It's not my fault that the OSDL report isn't anywhere available on the net anymore. If the LinuxFoundation doesn't consider it important enough, I can't do anything. This is IMO yet another sign that important parts of the OSS scene aren't willing to change anything. Microsoft's market share on the desktop was around 95% 2 years ago, it's now around 95%, it will be in 2 or 10 years. If there's one gaining market share, it's Apple but not Linux. I come back to bug#1 from time to time not to flame you but to hold up the mirror and ask you, look yourself what you have achieved. It's no question Ubuntu has done much in improving is, yet it has failed to make any progression here. O. Wyss --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tina Russell (tinarussell) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:09:00 -0000 Message-Id: Actually, hasn't Linux made about a 100% jump in marketshare over the past year or two? Obviously, that's something like 0.5% to 1%, but it's significant. Linux has never been big on the desktop... its big area of deployment has always been servers. Making it big on the desktop has always been something we knew would be a long and difficult battle. But, since the future of computing depends on it, it's one we're willing to take up. And I don't think anyone here is sad that Apple has been Microsoft's big contender, lately. Notice that the bug is titled "Microsoft has a majority market share," not "Linux does not have a majority market share." The whole problem, the bug, if you will, is the stunning _lack_ of competition in the desktop space. If Vista's implosion leads people both to Mac and Linux, that's all the better for competition, which is all the better for consumers. Besides, you must have noticed the surge in budget-priced PCs, laptop and desktop, natively running Linux, in the past year. Everyone wanted to get in the "cheap Linux PC" game. In Portland, the beautiful city which I hail from, we have a community recycling center that takes old PCs, refurbishes them, installs Ubuntu, and offers free tech support and classes, and gives the PCs to volunteers, schools, and local nonprofits. Only using Linux could we cheaply turn old, clunky computers into ones that are fresh, fast, and reliable. Linux's market share is always going to be infinitesimal if it requires people to install an entirely new operating system on top of the (clunky and bloated, but usable) one they already have, the one they think "just works." Now that Linux is showing its birth pangs as a default desktop platform, it's time for the Linux community to show its stuff, support the new users making the bold transition, and prove that Linux is ready for prime time... it's vital that "cheap Linux PCs" become a permanent presence in the desktop space and not merely a fad. That's why now is the time to be bold and aggressive, and not the time to think, "waaah, Microsoft's so big, we'll never beat them." And remember, Microsoft's market-strangling dominance is a utilitarian issue as well as a philosophical one. It not only limits choice and competition, but Microsoft's fear of open standards holds back innovation in technology in society in more ways than I could possibly count here. Also, nearly every computer in the world running an operating system for which security is a tacked-on afterthought is an enormous petri dish for horrifying new kinds of crime. So it's a real fight, and though we may be a slim minority now, it's worth it to hang on until Linux can mature into a serious competitor for Microsoft. Besides, as our marketshare continues to fluctuate in the niche range, Linux has been getting better and better. Five years ago, somebody new to Linux practically had to be a CS major to install and maintain a Linux system. Now, there's a decent chance that an Ubuntu Live CD will run right out of the box. Ubuntu does absolutely everything that your average user needs Windows for, and much, much more... before ever even installing any of the amazing plethora of free applications available with a few clicks of the mouse (and one--count it, one--password prompt). If you look at Linux's maturation, you'll notice another pattern... we're not _losing_ anybody. Once you've made the switch to the penguin, there's no going back because the difference is night and day. I'd say a slow crawl to more and more users, more and more marketshare, and a more and more robust operating system is good news all around. And now... we finally have our chance to strut our stuff on PCs that you can buy off the shelf. Now is the time for hope. Now is the time to congratulate Apple on its inroads, and now is the time to congratulate Microsoft on its twenty years of dominance that are slowly coming to an end. On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 3:43 AM, wyo wrote: > Sure wyoGuide is stalled. Since especially the Portland group isn't > interested, there's no sense in keeping it going on. Besides I've delved > into other regions and don't have the necessary time anymore. If you are > interested in wyoGuide, it's OSS you may have it. > > It's not my fault that the OSDL report isn't anywhere available on the > net anymore. If the LinuxFoundation doesn't consider it important > enough, I can't do anything. This is IMO yet another sign that important > parts of the OSS scene aren't willing to change anything. > > Microsoft's market share on the desktop was around 95% 2 years ago, it's > now around 95%, it will be in 2 or 10 years. If there's one gaining > market share, it's Apple but not Linux. > > I come back to bug#1 from time to time not to flame you but to hold up > the mirror and ask you, look yourself what you have achieved. It's no > question Ubuntu has done much in improving is, yet it has failed to make > any progression here. > > O. Wyss > > > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a bug assignee. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: SneakyWho_am_i (sneakywho-am-i) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 00:32:06 -0000 Message-Id: <20080312003206.9205.55205.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> > I do questions the result of this effort. It seems regardless how much > effort ever is spent it has no effect at all on Microsoft's market > share.=20 http://members.shaw.ca/Limulus/files/w3sbw2-0801.png Above: Firefox is now more popular than any version of IE, and will soon be= more popular than all versions of IE. Firefox is a massive threat to Windo= ws (a la Netscape 1995) as it allows clever programmers to develop applicat= ions directly for the browser, bypassing the Operating System. more users o= f standards compliant browsers means more webmasters coding for standards c= ompliant browsers - which will make it more difficult for Microsoft to reve= rse the decline in popularity of their browser. http://www.seopher.com/images/landscape/vista-players.gif Above: Great excitement on the internerd when Vista was released. Now, alth= ough it's used a lot, nobody is really as interested in it any more. Where = is that green line going to sink to?? http://www.seopher.com/images/landscape/everyone.gif To put it into perspective, Vista is still very popular. NOTE: Google Trends is not a great source for meaningful statistics. http://www.w3.org/2005/Talks/200509Berlin/mobiledevice-stats.PNG Above: As more powerful browsers (From Opera, Safari and Mozilla) emerge on= handheld devices, Internet Explorer suffers (although the effect must be m= inimal). ... In any event, Opera Mini/IE users have to ask themselves now: = Why does this website look so much better on my cellphone than it does on m= y desktop? And it DOES! Opera Mini has a far higher level of CSS support th= an IE, and is only a few kilobytes in size. Even Lynx is more powerful than= IE. It's about fifty times as fast, a thousand times more secure, and it s= upports HTML and XHTML (neither of which are supported by Internet Explorer= - IE can't even discover linked RSS yet, can it?? Haaaaa ha!) http://cru.cahe.wsu.edu/WebLog/ColumbiaPlateau/Daily_Used_Operating_Systems= .png Above: On a day to day basis, The number of Vista users visiting internet s= ites looks comparable to the number of Linux users. Could it be that people= are buying Vista and throwing it away?? Of course, I'm only looking at thi= s one graph. You should make your own graphs if you doubt my methods. Below, let's take a look at some initiatives which you might be aware of bu= t perhaps don't grasp the gravity of. Google is eating Microsoft for breakfast: http://code.google.com/opensource/wine.html Wait, Gooooooooogle is doing all that work on WINE? WIne Is Not an Emulator?? YES. Steve B from Microsoft: "I'm going to fucking Kill Google!" Also note their adsense fetish for converting users to Firefox. It's working though. Thanks partly to Google's efforts and $$$, Photoshop C= S2 runs on Linux under WINE (slowwwwwly): http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=3Dphotoshop+cs2+wine Microsoft is continually breaking things; Linux offers the stability that w= e NEED in our Offices, in our Arcades, in our radio stations. Linux will gi= ve you years of uptime without a reboot under certain configurations. That'= s more than notable. http://wastingtimewithmikeandari.wordpress.com/2008/01/31/linux-has-better-= windows-compatibility-than-vista/ Note that the above post could be considered heavily biased flamebait.... But even the fact that it can be said honestly btu not disputed honestly is a big thing. Even in the most pessimistic chart I could find (does anybody else notice h= ow the points add up to more than 100% of the total market share??) shows s= ome goodness: http://www.seopher.com/images/ostrends/vista.gif Some sources (Microsoft Probably included) will tell you (and believe) that Vista is making a meteoric rise. Even if it's true, XP's popularity is understandably falling. Who's picking up the slack here. Sure, Vista is growing on this graph faster than XP is falling, but, nonsensically, Linux is also growing - at almost the same rate in the decline in Vista. So there, even the most pessimistic and ass-backwards measurements say that while small, Linux is gathering speed and making inroads. It is!! Now for some more pessimism: Ubuntu is the future of Linux? Maybe. Partly. If you're wondering that, you= 're asking the wrong question. You should be asking, will Microsoft still b= e on top in twenty years? I don't think so. Twenty years? Yeah. I'm being pessimistic. With computer manufacturers and = retailers supplying Linux and a growing casual user base, the rate of growt= h here is expected to accelerate. It only makes sense. It's viral. Don't expect a mass migration to Linux like I did when I was twelve. Don't expect All your favourite applications to be ported overnight. Do expect miracles. You know how the saying goes: "BE REALISTIC: PLAN FOR A MIRACLE" So you know, I am. Browsers are the biggest thing to me right now; partly b= ecause I do so much work with them and partly because the Internet is Micro= soft's natural enemy. I use FIrefox at home most of the time (extensions)..= .. And I am always trying to convert people - but I don't push Firefox as hard= as I can. I will defend Firefox, but I will support anyone who decides to = try out Opera. The main thing is that they're not using Internet Explorer. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 08:10:16 -0000 Message-Id: <20080312081016.7775.7443.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> SneakyWho_am_i wrote: --- http://members.shaw.ca/Limulus/files/w3sbw2-0801.png Above: Firefox is now more popular than any version of IE, and will soon be= more popular than all versions of IE. Firefox is a massive threat to Windo= ws (a la Netscape 1995) as it allows clever programmers to develop applicat= ions directly for the browser, bypassing the Operating System. more users o= f standards compliant browsers means more webmasters coding for standards c= ompliant browsers - which will make it more difficult for Microsoft to reve= rse the decline in popularity of their browser. --- Please note that my graph only shows stats *for that site* specifically; Firefox is almost certainly *not* the browser with largest market share worldwide. Note however that there is disagreement about which is and what Firefox's market share is too: http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D2 Net Applications: February 2008 IE7: 44.03% IE6: 30.63% FF2: 16.30% http://www.onestat.com/html/aboutus_pressbox57-firefox-mozilla-ie-browser-m= arket-share.html OneStat: February 18, 2008 IE6: 53.95% IE7: 29.06% FF ALL: 13.76% http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php W3Counter: February 29, 2008 IE6: 39.00% FF2: 22.89% IE7: 22.67% The reason I graph the data from w3schools.com is that they have numbers going back six years and the major trends they show (FF rising steadily at the expense of IE, no major third browser uptake (IE+FF hovering at a stable, high level), IE6->IE7 adoption plateauing unlike IE5->6 adoption) *do* seem to be reflected across the web. For a long-term graph of global trends, Janco has a decade of IE data: http://limulus.wordpress.com/2007/11/17/jancos-browser-wars- graph-1997-2007/ I took their graph and added approximate release dates for IE and FF: http://members.shaw.ca/Limulus/files/Browser_Wars_Janco.png Note that IE's market share has been falling since *at least* mid-2004 and probably started at the beginning of 2003. (Aside: these dates are interesting since they line up closely with the early development of Firefox; the first dev version, named "Phoenix" with version number 0.1 was released in September 2002 and the first "Firefox" dev version, 0.8, was released in February 2004.) SneakyWho_am_i also wrote: --- NOTE: Google Trends is not a great source for meaningful statistics. --- You can learn a few things though; consider: http://www.google.com/trends?q=3DFedora%2C+Debian%2C+Ubuntu%2C+SUSE&ctab=3D= 0&geo=3Dall&date=3Dall&sort=3D0 Among major Linux distros, Ubuntu is the leader of the pack... http://www.google.com/trends?q=3DXP%2C+Vista%2C+Ubuntu%2C+Mac&ctab=3D0&geo= =3Dall&date=3Dall&sort=3D0 but still has a way to go before catching up to Windows and Mac OS in terms= of being a 'household name'. --- I am always trying to convert people - but I don't push Firefox as hard as = I can. I will defend Firefox, but I will support anyone who decides to try = out Opera. The main thing is that they're not using Internet Explorer. --- But if they are going to use IE, make sure to push hard that they're not using IE6! :) If you need to, direct them here: http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=3D170212 (a bit old, but its still pretty much the same IE6 and just plain SCARY!) Right now you can get Windows (XP/Vista) users to try: IE7 IE8 beta FF2 FF3 beta Safari 3 beta Opera 9 Opera 9.5 beta Lots of choices; I'm sure one of those would do and chances are they'll pick something that's not IE. Maybe do a 'browser-a-day challenge' with all of them ;) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jeremy White (jwhite-codeweavers) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:22:33 -0000 Message-Id: <20080318182233.11744.93803.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> See also this bug: http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D10000 I would argue that bug 10,000 is a blocker to, or at least prevents a more = rapid closure of, bug #1. Cheers, Jeremy --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: suchys (psuchomel) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:42:04 -0000 Message-Id: <20080321204205.15643.44941.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Well, just found this bug looking at 8.04 Beta :-). But I contributed few days ago.. got a new notebook with Vista Business ins= talled, so here is how to: 1) Charge the notebook 2) Prepare & burn Kubuntu CD meanwhile 3) Insert CD to charged notebook 4) Boot, make sure CD booted correctly 5) Follow instructions, use Entire disk when asked about install destinatio= n and continue After a little while the bug is fixed on another hardware ... Now a bit seriously, new Sony Vaio SZ7 has some issues especially with driv= ers, hope this will get fixed soon :-) Thanks, Petr --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Brad Jensen (bradwjensen) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 12:48:24 -0000 Message-Id: <20080322124824.15229.57880.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> I noticed on DELL.com that they use very crappy and plain images to define Ubuntu.. like this one: http://i.dell.com/images/us/segments/dhs/q1wk01_ubuntu_banner_728x200.jpg I think for Hardy Heron - someone here should get an image of dell computers actually running Hardy Heron with its new default Wallpaper and theme, and then get the dell guys to change their images to those. Actually market Ubuntu's looks, cos it has those too. I think i read Mark S. once say that looks sell. This would spark more interest in people about Ubuntu filled computers as people would actually get to see right from dells website what Ubuntu looks like on a computer.. Having that dull, boring, white background with the Ubuntu log with the word "ubuntu" on it says nothing about what the system looks like to people whom have no idea. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: zzzxxx (michalski-deactivatedaccount-deactivatedaccount) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 04:23:14 -0000 Message-Id: <20080325042314.2083.59622.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Reproduced at local Staples store in New Minas, Nova-Scotia (Canada) Informed Store Manager and he promissed to have a fix by March 2008, nothing done yet --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Blaster (holst-niels) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:49:42 -0000 Message-Id: <20080325084942.2626.980.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I'm working hard on a bugfix. So far the beta release of Hardy has helped me eliminate the bug on more than 10 pc in Denmark. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: yostane (yostane) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:39:47 -0000 Message-Id: <20080325133947.17146.25344.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Algeria also has this bug, but the majority of PCs have a cra... version of windows. Windows (XP and Vista) here is as free as Linux. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tina Russell (tinarussell) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:05:39 -0000 Message-Id: I don't know, I think this bug is a critical security issue. Though it's fair to say that Linux would be the target of many more viruses and malware applications if it were as popular as Windows, it would also rather help if everyone were using an OS where security is built in from the ground up, as in Linux, rather than tacked on as an afterthought, like Windows. The fact that it's accepted wisdom that an ordinary, unprotected computer running Windows out of the box will soak up spyware like a sponge as soon as it's connected to the Internet is one of the biggest threats to computer security today, especially since cybercrime now relies on hijacking the computers of casual users and assimilating them into vicious and powerful botnets. This can all be traced back to a widespread view that Windows is the "default" operating system, and an inefficient and unsustainable model that says the entire wired world's security problems should be taken care of entirely by overworked programmers in Redmond, their patches released once a month. Windows is simply not equipped to deal with today's computer security threats, and that's not Microsoft's fault so much as it shows how outmoded their thinking is. So, with botnets being the latest, biggest frontier in online crime, I think it's clear that Bug #1 is the harshest and most pressing security issue in IT today. On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 3:03 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas wr= ote: > ** This bug is no longer flagged as a security issue > > > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a bug assignee. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Iain Buclaw (iainb) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:51:20 -0000 Message-Id: <20080326215120.2254.7757.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I've just committed a fix. We must aim to be a leading provider for the younger generation. I have a huge family of brothers ranging from 10 to 20. And tests have shown these results: Brother 1 at the age of 20 is disinterested in Linux and/or Technology alto= gether.. Brother 2 at the age of 16 thinks Linux is a load of crap, and loves his WI= ndows Box. Brother 3 at the age of 15 gives a slight moral interest towards Linux, but= will never switch. Brother 4 at the age of 13 Plays on Linux games such as Sauerbraten, FretsO= nFire and Toribash. But he is smart enough to figure out that they are too ava= iliable for Windows, so he becomes yet another victim to this bug. Brother 5 at the age of 10 Plays with Linux alot, he does not yet understan= d the differences of technology but prefers the user friendliness and the "totally pwning" (hi= s words, not mine) 3D Desktop Cube. And sometimes on the odd occasion makes unruly remarks suc= h as "Linux Rules" and "Windows Sucks" But to be honest, as much as I would like to say the same. Alas my view isn= 't as locked down as a stereotypical "warzone" view of things. I believe that we have the freedom to choose what we wish to with no pressu= re to differ us between one or the other. That's why I sometimes dream that I walk into a corporate sleaze of a PC St= ore (cough, *pcworld* cough) only to find that there are an equally amount = of PCs ranging from every OS imaginable and all at the same price. Complete unbiased competition. That is what I'm for. But back to the point, as many of you may of noticed, there is a trend going on here. Therefore I have official committed a fix. Get your children into Linux before it is too late! Iain --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 03:00:49 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0803262000s17978b34r48d9f0f3b546e679@mail.gmail.com> Good post Iain !!! The problem is not "lack of interest" to that we could add: "in what" ? My friends who visit me here, in Mazatlan Mexico have no choice but to use my Ubuntu laptop, do they complain, not once ! Oh they miss the blue screen of death, but... They notice that it's quicker, easier, but figure that I've "tricked it out ". (No) Everyone has been a 'mature' user, with me so far ? No one plays games, just get their email, pay a few bills, check the news and weather, make reservations and phone on Skype. Games involve patents ! We are all up against the world's biggest patent hog and troll ! So there ! Several developed a keen interest in Ubuntu, not Linux.. Ok that's a start, but let's look at the fragmented world of Linux. Little cohesion, we're all independent people, not mindless zombies. Perhaps the real solution lies with free and open source sofware FOSS. Patent free software. Or we could spend over a billion USD dollars each year promoting Linux and fighting the patent war. The best flagship for attacking this problem lies here: GROKLAW Join in, help in a positive way, thanks, Allen On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 2:51 PM, tinivole wrote: > I've just committed a fix. > > We must aim to be a leading provider for the younger generation. > > I have a huge family of brothers ranging from 10 to 20. > > And tests have shown these results: > Brother 1 at the age of 20 is disinterested in Linux and/or Technology > altogether.. > Brother 2 at the age of 16 thinks Linux is a load of crap, and loves his > WIndows Box. > Brother 3 at the age of 15 gives a slight moral interest towards Linux, > but will never switch. > Brother 4 at the age of 13 Plays on Linux games such as Sauerbraten, > FretsOnFire and Toribash. > But he is smart enough to figure out that they are too > availiable for Windows, so he becomes yet > another victim to this bug. > Brother 5 at the age of 10 Plays with Linux alot, he does not yet > understand the differences of technology but > prefers the user friendliness and the "totally pwning" > (his words, not mine) 3D Desktop Cube. > And sometimes on the odd occasion makes unruly remarks > such as "Linux Rules" and "Windows Sucks" > > But to be honest, as much as I would like to say the same. Alas my view > isn't as locked down as a stereotypical "warzone" view of things. > I believe that we have the freedom to choose what we wish to with no > pressure to differ us between one or the other. > That's why I sometimes dream that I walk into a corporate sleaze of a PC > Store (cough, *pcworld* cough) only to find that there are an equally amo= unt > of PCs ranging from every OS imaginable and all at the same price. > Complete unbiased competition. That is what I'm for. > > But back to the point, as many of you may of noticed, there is a trend > going on here. > > Therefore I have official committed a fix. > > Get your children into Linux before it is too late! > > Iain > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Confirmed > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Source Package "bum" in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in Source Package "casper" in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in Source Package "djplay" in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in Source Package "firefox" in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in Source Package "ubuntu-express" in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in Source Package "linux" in Debian GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > -- stop junk mail,look here: http://www.ambysoft.com/ideas/reduceJunkMail.html --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: rhinoFinn (itrem) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:39:08 -0000 Message-Id: <20080327143908.3466.37831.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> I'm not so sure whether this bug is due or only due to Microsoft, bcause I (once again) tried to start use Linux ... tried to install latest OpenSUSE, Mandriva on my laptop ... installation failed ... then tried Ubuntu (actually latest beta 8.04) and wow, it succeedet to install. Only problem was with wlan - turn out that Ubuntu can't connect if wlan- server hides its name (SSID). When I managed wlan-station and set that it broadcasts its SSID-name, managed Ubuntu to establish wlan- connection. I have installed over a year ago Windows Vista Ultimate on this same laptop and it installed with no problem and has worked like a charm ... I have tried some times earlier years to use linux too, but after a while with problems and frustration of googlind and searchin guides and reading too much just unnecessary talkietalkie there, returned back to windows that works and guides are good and fully informative - they just tell all the things that one need to know to do things. And installation of additional hardware is so simple in windows with graphical driver- installation programs (much easier compared so often needed kernelcompaling, editing and timewaste of googling information among talkietalkie linux-boards). So now I have 3G mobiledatamodem Option iCON 225 and have installed and use= it easily in Windows Vista. Now I have found some information how to install it on Ubuntu too. But guid= es and information lack so much or are not suitable for Ubuntu 8.04 so that= I haven't managed yet to installa it and get it working ... so I think the= re's some kinga chronical bad disease in Linux open source world: it is not= capable of handling those numerous different distros of Linux and can't ma= ke adequate guidance how to do things, installa new hardware ... now it see= ms that there is driver (hso) and utility program (rezero) but NOT ANY dece= nt guide how to installa them on Ubuntu 8.04 So maybe computer hardware sellers are now WISE and AWARE this information not so open source -problem in Linux-world and that's why they keep rid of it :D So if somebody can just complain this and not to tell how 3Gmobiledatamodem Option iCON 225 CAN BE INSTALLED ON Ubuntu 8.04, please don't bother to comment this discovery of chronical Linux disease :D - - - - - - - Please use energy and effords to make things happen more easily in Linux-wo= rld too - and stop complaining about Windows until that. Why isn't there good website/wiki or something else that could inform how to install additional hardware on linux in the variety of distros and their versions? so guides withoud that mas of talkietalkie (or it in separate section at least) and with full guides, telling all and nothing but the truth how to installa on linux that hardware or something else. so short good guide - would that be too much to ask for those who waste time barging windows while keeping own nest in such a mess :D --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 19:15:27 -0000 Message-Id: <47EBF24F.2000809@hal-pc.org> This is a verry good example of Bug1 which is perception, not reality.=20 So, I am including this "perception patch" that should be tactfully=20 applied whenever you find this bug in a running system rhinoFinn wrote: > I'm not so sure whether this bug is due or only due to Microsoft, bcause > I (once again) tried to start use Linux ... tried to install latest > OpenSUSE, Mandriva on my laptop ... installation failed ... then tried > Ubuntu (actually latest beta 8.04) and wow, it succeedet to install. > Only problem was with wlan - turn out that Ubuntu can't connect if wlan- > server hides its name (SSID). When I managed wlan-station and set that > it broadcasts its SSID-name, managed Ubuntu to establish wlan- > connection. Computers are hard. Installing stuff is hard. Wireless is junk. This=20 is why we get the big bucks. > I have installed over a year ago Windows Vista Ultimate on this same > laptop and it installed with no problem and has worked like a charm ... Right now I am having to reinstall Windows XP to a customer system. It=20 has a nVidia graphics card, and a gigabyte GA-8I945PM-RH motherboard.=20 This is a OEM motherboard, and there is NO WAY TO FIND THE DRIVERS FOR=20 IT! How did I do it? I installed Ubuntu (which worked perfect out of=20 the box) looked at the drivers and found the Windows versions. Driver=20 problems are not the fault of the OS. In some cases Windows will win,=20 and in some cases Ubuntu will win. In all cases it is the hardware=20 manufactures responsibility to provide drivers. Sometimes they fail...=20 And not just for Linux. > I have tried some times earlier years to use linux too, but after a > while with problems and frustration of googlind and searchin guides and > reading too much just unnecessary talkietalkie there, returned back to > windows that works and guides are good and fully informative - they just > tell all the things that one need to know to do things. There are good and bad guids on both sides. You just happen to know=20 where the good guides are for Windows. If you had been in Linux a while=20 you would know where to look there as well. > And installation > of additional hardware is so simple in windows with graphical driver- > installation programs (much easier compared so often needed > kernelcompaling, editing and timewaste of googling information among > talkietalkie linux-boards). In 25 years of computer work from DOS to several flavors of Unix to=20 Linux, I nave NEVER compiled a kernal. I still don't know where this=20 myth comes from, but you don't need to compile kernals to use Linux. It=20 just ain't so. And as to the "editing and timewaste of googling=20 information among talkietalkie linux-boards" Have you ever seen technet=20 or edited the registry? > So now I have 3G mobiledatamodem Option iCON 225 and have installed and u= se it easily in Windows Vista. > Now I have found some information how to install it on Ubuntu too. But gu= ides and information lack so much or are not suitable for Ubuntu 8.04 so th= at I haven't managed yet to installa it and get it working ... so I think t= here's some kinga chronical bad disease in Linux open source world: it is n= ot capable of handling those numerous different distros of Linux and can't = make adequate guidance how to do things, installa new hardware ... now it s= eems that there is driver (hso) and utility program (rezero) but NOT ANY de= cent guide how to installa them on Ubuntu 8.04 I can't make any sense of this at all... It could be part of the=20 problem. If you can not clearly articulate your problem, no one can=20 ever solve it. > So maybe computer hardware sellers are now WISE and AWARE this > information not so open source -problem in Linux-world and that's why > they keep rid of it :D Every single one of my vendors also sells systems with Linux. All of=20 them... I am also regularly selling Linux systems to users. Generally=20 the only place I see the problem you describe is from moderately=20 experienced people who think that they know COMPUTERS, when actually the=20 know WINDOWS. As a beginner in Linux you expect to have a similar lever=20 of knowledge as you do in Windows. This is the problem. > So if somebody can just complain this and not to tell how > 3Gmobiledatamodem Option iCON 225 CAN BE INSTALLED ON Ubuntu 8.04, > please don't bother to comment this discovery of chronical Linux disease There is also some hardware that does not work in Vista. If you buy it=20 and don't check first, you will be disappointed. That is the case here.=20 Personally, I never try to make bad hardware work. I simply only buy=20 supported hardware. This includes systems that are planned to be used=20 in Windows. That way, whatever I pull off the shelf just works,=20 regardless of the system I put it in. This removes vast amounts of=20 stress from my life. > Why isn't there good website/wiki or something else that could inform > how to install additional hardware on linux in the variety of distros > and their versions? so guides withoud that mas of talkietalkie (or it in > separate section at least) and with full guides, telling all and nothing > but the truth how to installa on linux that hardware or something else. > so short good guide - would that be too much to ask for those who waste > time barging windows while keeping own nest in such a mess :D There are thousands of them. However, in most cases there is no need as=20 most stuff just works on boot. For example, my WiFi card just comes up=20 if I plug it in any Ubuntu system post Feisty. Windows can't even say that. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Drascus (enchantedvisionsband) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:29:36 -0000 Message-Id: <20080328192936.1060.72020.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> I agree Microsoft has too much of the market share and Free Software should be kicking their butts. I have to correct the bug report a bit though. One way we could achieve this Free Software bliss is by only having Free Software in the Ubuntu Base install (by the FSF guidelines). Richard Stallman has often said that a distro with non-free packages creates the space for more proprietary software to creep in. This seems to be true with the current state of things. I don't thing that Ubuntu should sacrifice Functionality just replace the Functionality of the Proprietary Software with Free Software packages that do the same job. The only way to achieve this is by Rejecting the Proprietary Software and force developers to either release their code in a free software license or by replacing their code with ours. Then we will have both the amazing powered Software and the full power of Free Software Ethics at our disposal to trample the competition. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Karunadheera (karunadheera) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 02:39:32 -0000 Message-Id: <20080331023932.24828.98076.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Here in Sri Lanka the story goes the same. Most of the PCs and Laptops are sold with Windows pre-installed. Although these machines come with also antivirus software, they are much prune to attacks. I bought an Asus laptop with a clean hard disk as I needed Ubuntu on it. But the general user prefers a pre-installation. Sri Lanka is a developing country. People in this small country should not make microsoft rich. They should not get used to pirated software even, when they have the ability to embrace the freedom of software. * We need to make computer hardware agents/resellers/buyers understand the = true story of software. Working on it :-| --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: doorknob60 (doorknob60) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 02:59:18 -0000 Message-Id: <20080331025918.2883.80900.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> This bug is confirmed here in Oregon in the US too. Everyone I know uses Windows, and a few use Mac. Only the people in my family use Linux as far as I know. Luckily, Dell sells laptops preinstalled with Ubuntu now, but not many people know that. There's also System76, but again, very few people know about them. Let's work our best to get this fixed! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: TGM (tommann.home) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 09:35:12 -0000 Message-Id: <20080331093512.7737.23320.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> In Response to Drascus - There is a version of Ubuntu called Gobuntu which aims to only use free software. However Ubuntu gives us more choice than anything RMS could come up with - it gives us a choice, for example, to get the best out of our 3D cards, or to move over to Linux and use programs with an interface we already know well, or even to play our compressed audio/video files and sync our ipods. I'd love to see free software come out on top over the rest - but now is not quite the time. Mixing proprietary and open-source gives us all the best of both worlds, and we have the choice to opt out of proprietary if we choose. In terms of Linux taking over - Microsoft have Embrace-Extend- Extinguish. Maybe we need a special phrase for a good method to improve global share. I'm going to suggest Imitate-Educate-Rehabilitate - Imitate is to show people the open source alternatives that do the same j= ob. - Educate is to show people the good points of open source without attackin= g proprietary - we need to show people we're the good guys, but also show i= mpartiality, e.g. let people know that movement is happening in the open s= ource world to 3D drivers but at this point in time you'll get more perform= ance from the proprietary one. (Ubuntu does a good job of this in it's rest= ricted drivers manager) - Rehabilitate is to introduce Ubuntu to the persons life and show them how= they really do not need Windows anymore. (OK Games are the exception at th= e moment - but I don't see that staying that way for too much longer) The above is a first draft - any input? :-D --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Shane Fagan (shanepatrickfagan) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 14:13:31 -0000 Message-Id: <20080331141332.7623.92677.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> ok all right it is a very large nasty bug but hope isnt far I learned about linux and ubuntu in college and switched quickly!! I think education is the fix for this bug! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Andy Brody (abrody) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 04:46:41 -0000 Message-Id: <20080402044641.22638.41777.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> I tried to file this bug upstream (with Microsoft), and was slammed with a WONTFIX. We should really work on this issue. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Stephan van Ingen (stephanvaningen) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 15:52:43 -0000 Message-Id: http://stephanvaningen.net/index.php?title=3DMy_Ubuntu_hitlist! Next to this I keep telling anybody who asks support for his Windows installation that I can not help him/her because it costs a lot of time and I do not want to keep illegal installation running. I then kindly invite them to try Ubuntu while I give them a copy of the CD :-) --=20 http://stephanvaningen.net stephanvaningen@gmail.com I am a happy www.ubuntu.com user -- --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: JD (jacobdorne) Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 04:44:44 -0000 Message-Id: <20080403044444.13835.95732.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> All software should be ported to Linux... Except maybe Symantec Nortons crap. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 08:40:00 -0000 Message-Id: <20080403084001.30541.4080.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Jacob wrote: "All software should be ported to Linux..." This is relatively easily done with software libre, but as for proprietary software, most of which will never be ported, you can always use Wine ("an Open Source implementation of the Windows API on top of X, OpenGL, and Unix. Think of Wine as a compatibility layer for running Windows programs."), which should hit version 1.0 by summer! (June 6 appears to be the goal) Please see: http://www.winehq.org/?issue=3D343#Approaching%20Wine%201.0 http://www.winehq.org/?issue=3D344#Detailed%20reports%20of%20Wine%201.0%20p= rogress Once Wine 1.0 is released, it would be nice to see an organized push towards getting companies to test against it. Even if they aren't going to release a native port, something that *works* under Linux would be a nice step (consider Google's Picasa software). --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mihai.ile (mihai.ile) Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 14:21:57 -0000 Message-Id: <20080403142158.30541.35897.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> So after all this time... how does every Ubuntu release stands? Just made a google trends and here are the results: http://www.google.com/trends?q=3Dubuntu+breezy+%7C%7C+ubuntu+5.10%2C+ubuntu= +dapper+%7C%7C+ubuntu+6.06%2C+ubuntu+edgy+%7C%7C+ubuntu+6.10%2C+ubuntu+feis= ty+%7C%7C+ubuntu+7.04%2C+ubuntu+gutsy+%7C%7C+ubuntu+7.10&ctab=3D0&geo=3Dall= &date=3Dall&sort=3D0 I think we're on the good way. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 14:49:56 -0000 Message-Id: <47F4EE94.5070103@hal-pc.org> mihai007 wrote: > So after all this time... how does every Ubuntu release stands? > Just made a google trends and here are the results: > http://www.google.com/trends?q=3Dubuntu+breezy+%7C%7C+ubuntu+5.10%2C+ubun= tu+dapper+%7C%7C+ubuntu+6.06%2C+ubuntu+edgy+%7C%7C+ubuntu+6.10%2C+ubuntu+fe= isty+%7C%7C+ubuntu+7.04%2C+ubuntu+gutsy+%7C%7C+ubuntu+7.10&ctab=3D0&geo=3Da= ll&date=3Dall&sort=3D0 I find this one more interesting...=20 http://www.google.com/trends?q=3Dubuntu%2C+Windows+98%2C+windows+2000%2C+Wi= ndows+vista&ctab=3D0&geo=3Dall&date=3Dall&sort=3D0 > I think we're on the good way. We may be doing better than anyone knows... The Vista graph and the=20 Win2k graph surprised me. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mihai.ile (mihai.ile) Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 08:22:40 -0000 Message-Id: <20080404082240.21059.42386.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Well to actually have a complete overview we should put Windows XP to the m= ix: http://www.google.com/trends?q=3Dubuntu%2C+Windows+98%2C+windows+2000%2C+Wi= ndows+vista%2C+Windows+XP&ctab=3D0&geo=3Dall&date=3Dall&sort=3D0 And yes, I am impressed with the results, keep up the good work! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mihai.ile (mihai.ile) Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 08:30:40 -0000 Message-Id: <20080404083040.15145.72889.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Oh well back with bad news this time, and I think those match better with t= he reality: http://www.google.com/trends?q=3Dubuntu%2C+vista%2C+xp&ctab=3D0&geo=3Dall&d= ate=3Dall&sort=3D0 People actually don't search or write about "Windows vista" but actually ab= out "vista". This is a big difference. Note: "vista" means other things that "windows vista" but you can see from = data that comes from 2004, 2005 that it's not that relevant (I'm talking ab= out the fact that it could boost vista's search volume, but it's irrelevant= )... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Brad Jensen (bradwjensen) Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 08:46:43 -0000 Message-Id: <20080404084643.14987.35169.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> or how about: http://www.google.com/trends?q=3Dubuntu%2C+windows&ctab=3D0&geo=3Dall&date= =3Dall&sort=3D0 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: JC Cheloven (jc-cheloven) Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 13:03:12 -0000 Message-Id: <20080404130312.14987.36168.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Mhhh... I daily read posts at this "bug" since dec07, ... too much "Google-Trends-based guessing", imho. The ubuntu audience is an important parameter (it should be, otherwise we wouldn't spent so many time writing about it ;-). It deserves some better measure. What about including something as a 'one time button' in ubuntu (not mandatory, of course), that simply would send a +1 to a counter at ubuntu's servers? Not quite a registration. I'm sure almost every user would be proud to push the button, and this would provide us a better idea about how the bug's progress. And surely would give us a nice surprise too... JC, a happy thankful gnu linux debian ubuntu user. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: M1N3R (m1n3r2) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 09:26:41 -0000 Message-Id: <20080405092641.14641.32143.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> This bug is evidently a top priority to solve, since it is strange how people don't see the potential in open-source. Plus the kernel linux has is so hardware-friendly that I can't find the words to tell:P (Now, really, I've been using Microsoft since the very beginning, some programming, some source codes came my way. They were well-fabricated and yet windows doesn't work. Vista has and evidently better support of hardware, yet it keeps on crashing when I want to put it to sleep. Just an example) Now linux is better, this need not be told another word about, it is just that the software industry never develops for it. So many of my friends just don't care about the bad behavior of windows because games mostly run on windows only (and of course, they are lazy to try something NEW). Next year, perhaps, at university, I will do a better work solving this issue. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Prateek (smartygoldenfish) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 16:04:18 -0000 Message-Id: <20080405160418.1225.85382.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Yeah..this bug is in India too where people do not go beyond The Start Menu, Microsoft Office, and now Windows Vista comes preinstalled so people dont think twice in shelling out their hard earned money for 2 GB RAM and a Core 2 Duo processor and what they do with...Microsoft Word and Solitaire! Seriously, if Intel(AMD) based PCs come with Ubuntu or its derivatives the= n the hardware requirement (and the Customer Support or AMC) both will go d= own drastically, because the only virtual requirement for Ubuntu is Interne= t and nothing else!=20 This is a sincere request to all those companies saying "xxxxx recommends M= icrosoft Windows Vista Ultimate for business", comeon DO YOU EVEN USE WINDO= WS AT YOUR OFFICE? What you say us to do, do you do that? =20 The world is going towards an Free and Open Enviroments, Microsoft should n= ote that though Google (its Ultimate rival) is a Free internet search engin= e and GMAIL the best free email service with 0 Ads. Windows is good, but it needs to grow up for a million years more to come at the level of Free and Open Source Ubuntu. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: foosean010 (foosean010) Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2008 21:48:01 -0000 Message-Id: <20080406214802.13038.35050.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> I see a couple things holding Linux back from becoming the dominate operating system that all of us know that it can be. 1. There are too many versions/window managers/ways of doing things within= different Linux distros. If there were some way that there could be 1 *MAIN* version/distro of Linux= that beginners could learn on and would be COMPLETELY user friendly; that = hardware companies could write drivers for; that game companies could make = compatible with their games; that software companies could create programs = for, then I think that Linux would definitely give M$ a run for their money= . This would especially help the developing countries in that they could *= teach* this main version of Linux. This does not mean that we would not st= ill have all the other distros that we know and love, including Ubuntu, wou= ld have to go... those would all still be available.=20 2. We need to market this *MAIN* version of Linux to the public as a super= ior OS when compared to M$ Windoz. =20 We would need to get some kind of sponsorship that we could air commercials= in different countries and languages, do online ads, billboards, celebrity= backup... do everything the same that any other product is marketed. Give= people something to be curious and excited about. If we can do these things and all the other things (that make sense) listed above, I believe that we can give M$ a run for its money. But if we cannot, and we keep our current course with so many distro's, little hardware support, and no marketing other that passing out live cd's... I personally don't ever see any form of linux/unix accomplishing the goal of this bug report. I cant really think of anything else to add to the bug report right now... but I will update if anything comes to mind. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 06:27:57 -0000 Message-Id: <20080407062757.13867.59793.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> foosean010: Regarding the number of Linux distributions, while there are a lot (around 350 "active" ones listed on DistroWatch as per http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=3D20080331), the vast majority are minor players (just getting started, winding down, niche, etc.) I put some of my notes about that here: http://limulus.wordpress.com/2007/06/29/pclinuxos-popularity/ IMHO there is really only one "main" Linux distribution; that would be Ubuntu :) Yes, you can find others that do particular things better and/or differently, but Ubuntu is usually voted the most popular, the one by which others tend to be judged these days and as a whole it does a very good job. As far as a "COMPLETELY user friendly" Linux distro, I would suggest calling it 'Utopia OS' since NO OS is "COMPLETELY user friendly". The best you can do is continually work at it :) Regarding proprietary games, with Wine 1.0 coming out soon, I would suggest that would be a better focus for compatibility than any particular Linux distro. Regarding your point #2, with just a little pickyness when selecting hardware, Ubuntu is the "superior OS" compared to Windows (*especially Vista* http://limulus.wordpress.com/2008/04/05/an-unscientific-poll/ ;) so I suppose that it really IS just a question of marketing now. My personal prediction is that the third LTS Ubuntu release, which should be 10.04, will achieve a 'Windows 95' type breakthrough (the oft- predicted 'year of the Linux desktop'; http://limulus.wordpress.com/2007/08/13/2010-the-year-of-the-linux- desktop/) I think the trick to getting advertising will be getting the OEMs onboard. Dell is still being timid about showing off their Ubuntu systems. If a couple more OEMs started preloading Ubuntu, then we probably will see some ads going up as they compete with each other for sales. Anyway, just a little closing thought; I am running Ubuntu Hardy (pre- release) on a three year old computer (2 GHz 32-bit AMD (single) Processor, 1 GB RAM, 128 MB ATI Radeon 9250-based video card, DVD RW drive) that is probably worth less than $500 US (including the monitor) now and yet it runs like a dream; my windows are wobbly, my 'desktop' is a cube, and when I press super-k I get stars around my cursor (its the little things that make me happy :) I am not in a constant state of paranoia over malware, my software didn't cost a large percentage of my hardware, my documents are saved in formats that I should easily be able to open in a decade, and there is no DRM to be seen anywhere ^_^ I've been talking to a young guy who works at a local computer store and he is just in awe of Ubuntu; its like magic to him ('WOW' moments included: free cost, EULA (yes, please do make copies for your friends :), LiveCD, Synaptic, Compiz fun, predictable releases). Once there is a 'critical mass' of 'average' people who know about Desktop Linux in its current form, I don't think that OEMs will be able to ignore the demand. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Stephan van Ingen (stephanvaningen) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 07:58:54 -0000 Message-Id: atheoi / Conrad: I completely agree with you, apart from *all the hard work of all the persons working on the 'background'*, a breakthrough of Linux/Ubuntu to the foreground is indeed for a huge part "*just a matter of marketing*" So go for it! - Go to your *local* computer hardware store and suggest to add Ubuntu as an OS to their 'pre-install' list with 100$ off on that same computers - Talk to *people* about Ubuntu/Linux about it's strong points: stable, secure, free, fast, growing, - Give Canonical additional idea's on *global* marketing 'stunts' like: * Give a cosmonaut an 'Ubuntu'-sticker on his helmet or something, whatever,... * or sponsor a sports-event by developing & running the statistics programs on Ubuntu servers (like IBM does on some tennist events, like HP does on ski-events somewhere, ...) * just a brainstorm-idea: try to run a project with Swatch-Switserland or something and install Ubuntu on a newly developped Swiss watch with flash-memory & bluetooth-enablement so it's also a wireless memory stick, a remote mail-reader if you're in the neighbourhood of your PC (cfr. a Tux-droid function), ...: this will be in the local news also if you push national press-agencies (like Belga in Belguim,...) to publish it as an article - local newspapers and TV stations get their news-info 80% from there anyway... * or something completely new so people really 'see' it... (just quickly writing this mail in-between a small break of work so no break-through-idea's yet:-/)... *Marketing*!!!! We are too 'friendly' and very honest: this is good, but it may be joined with a bit of raging marketing for the good cause! 2008/4/7 Conrad Knauer : > foosean010: > > Regarding the number of Linux distributions, while there are a lot > (around 350 "active" ones listed on DistroWatch as per > http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=3D20080331), the vast majority are > minor players (just getting started, winding down, niche, etc.) I put > some of my notes about that here: > http://limulus.wordpress.com/2007/06/29/pclinuxos-popularity/ IMHO > there is really only one "main" Linux distribution; that would be Ubuntu > :) Yes, you can find others that do particular things better and/or > differently, but Ubuntu is usually voted the most popular, the one by > which others tend to be judged these days and as a whole it does a very > good job. > > As far as a "COMPLETELY user friendly" Linux distro, I would suggest > calling it 'Utopia OS' since NO OS is "COMPLETELY user friendly". The > best you can do is continually work at it :) > > Regarding proprietary games, with Wine 1.0 coming out soon, I would > suggest that would be a better focus for compatibility than any > particular Linux distro. > > Regarding your point #2, with just a little pickyness when selecting > hardware, Ubuntu is the "superior OS" compared to Windows (*especially > Vista* http://limulus.wordpress.com/2008/04/05/an-unscientific-poll/ ;) > so I suppose that it really IS just a question of marketing now. My > personal prediction is that the third LTS Ubuntu release, which should > be 10.04, will achieve a 'Windows 95' type breakthrough (the oft- > predicted 'year of the Linux desktop'; > http://limulus.wordpress.com/2007/08/13/2010-the-year-of-the-linux- > desktop/) > > I think the trick to getting advertising will be getting the OEMs > onboard. Dell is still being timid about showing off their Ubuntu > systems. If a couple more OEMs started preloading Ubuntu, then we > probably will see some ads going up as they compete with each other for > sales. > > Anyway, just a little closing thought; I am running Ubuntu Hardy (pre- > release) on a three year old computer (2 GHz 32-bit AMD (single) > Processor, 1 GB RAM, 128 MB ATI Radeon 9250-based video card, DVD RW > drive) that is probably worth less than $500 US (including the monitor) > now and yet it runs like a dream; my windows are wobbly, my 'desktop' is > a cube, and when I press super-k I get stars around my cursor (its the > little things that make me happy :) I am not in a constant state of > paranoia over malware, my software didn't cost a large percentage of my > hardware, my documents are saved in formats that I should easily be able > to open in a decade, and there is no DRM to be seen anywhere ^_^ I've > been talking to a young guy who works at a local computer store and he > is just in awe of Ubuntu; its like magic to him ('WOW' moments included: > free cost, EULA (yes, please do make copies for your friends :), LiveCD, > Synaptic, Compiz fun, predictable releases). Once there is a 'critical > mass' of 'average' people who know about Desktop Linux in its current > form, I don't think that OEMs will be able to ignore the demand. > > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > -- http://stephanvaningen.net stephanvaningen@gmail.com I am a happy www.ubuntu.com user -- --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: aidave (aidave) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 17:31:01 -0000 Message-Id: <20080407173101.31014.79271.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> I think Ubuntu has to fully support suspend/resume on laptops if it needs to be a true solution. Recently I bought a Dell and they don't even have that working out of the box! According to them, suspend/resume is a bug in Ubuntu. How can you recommend Ubuntu to people, if when you open up your laptop, Ubuntu hangs and you need to reboot every time? Its EMBARASSING, and I cant in good faith, recommend to people a broken system! I would love to promote Ubuntu more, but having such a fundamental feature not supported, is a deal-breaker. Please fix this! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: koraycaglar (q-root-koraycaglar-com-tr) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 09:23:40 -0000 Message-Id: <20080408092340.5702.5394.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> koraycaglar, reporting from istanbul, Turkey: in Turkey we have a number of computer chain-stores such as Media Markt, Te= knosa, Bimex, etc... all of which seem to be selling only windoze pre-insta= lled computers. Sometimes price-oriented companies such as Carrefour, Real,= etc... promote linux installed computers as "cheap computers" but when tho= se computers are displayed next to shining v.stas and xps; they get no inte= rest from the customers. Because, linux installed computers are displayed w= ithout any eyecandies, 3d effects, desklets and mostly at vesa mode. They a= re not even installed in Turkish. That's why, even if someone buys the pc, = he installs windows on it as soon as he gets home. I also have to talk about some web-stores such as www.hepsiburada.com www.t= eknosepet.com. Two months ago I ordered an Acer Aspire 5520 for my wife fro= m www.hepsiburada.com. On the product page, it was stated that the notebook= comes with "linpus" pre-installed. I had no idea about the linpus distro, = but got excited that I was going to meet and use a new distro. The notebook was delivered, and I found out that linpus had been installed = without the graphical environment. And the computer kept asking for a passw= ord which had not been provided by acer. I installed Mandriva (my wife pref= ered it) immediately. I am sure that %99 of everyone who bought this notebo= ok also removed "linpus" and installed windoze on it. I beleive that if the companies selling linux-preinstalled computers could = install a usable distro in Turkish, preferably with compiz-fusion and prope= r graphic drivers; many of their customers would be happy with what they ha= ve bought. www.koraycaglar.com.tr --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Pjotr12345 (computertip) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 22:44:11 -0000 Message-Id: <20080412224411.6237.97458.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Ubuntu 8.04 is going to be so good, so stable, so user friendly.... And on top of that, it'll be an LTS release, with three years of security updates.... This is the one, people! The one that will blast it's way into the computing world. The (almost) flawless one. And we can help to make this happen. I for one am glad to be part of this! Greetz, Pjotr. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Todd Deshane (deshantm) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 23:04:46 -0000 Message-Id: <20080412230446.11001.42963.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Pjotr: I agree, Ubuntu 8.04 is the best yet. Don't let the nay-sayers discourage you. No software, especially an operating system environment can ever be perfect/flawless--that's for sure. But I agree that this one is "good enough" for a lot more people than ever before. Let's hope that the OEMs start agreeing that 8.04 is ready for a lot more people too... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Todd Deshane (deshantm) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 23:05:09 -0000 Message-Id: <20080412230509.10860.69219.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Pjotr: I agree, Ubuntu 8.04 is the best yet. Don't let the nay-sayers discourage you. No software, especially an operating system environment, can ever be perfect/flawless--that's for sure. But I agree that this one is "good enough" for a lot more people than ever before. Let's hope that the OEMs start agreeing that 8.04 is ready for a lot more people too... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Shane Fagan (shanepatrickfagan) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 19:10:50 -0000 Message-Id: <20080413191051.29714.47234.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> But still the main problem is that many people have never heard of Ubuntu o= r Linux. And problem 2 is that software producers are also just making thei= r software for microsoft systems because of demand. Problem 3 is that Gover= nments aren't standing up for competition in the OS market. =20 We need to make a stand each one of us in this community should show ubuntu= to your friends and give them a cd. Ubuntu is a good OS all we need to do = is get it out there how good! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: monk (monktruman) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 06:55:28 -0000 Message-Id: <20080418065528.14132.31614.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Now Microsoft is falling upon Yahoo. Both yahoo and google use linux, which is a big pain for M$, and one of the= reasons M$ is taking on yahoo. Help yahoo resist m$ at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/anti-ms- takeover-yahu --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:29:57 -0000 Message-Id: <20080418112957.14270.81519.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Two years ago Michael Dell said: --- "People are always asking us to support Linux on the desktop, but the quest= ion is: 'Which Linux are you talking about?' If we say we like Ubuntu, then= people will say we picked the wrong one. If we say we like and support Ubu= ntu, Novell, Red Hat, and Xandros, then someone would ask us, 'Why don't yo= u support Mandriva? The challenge we have with picking one is that we think= we'd disenchant the other distributions' supporters. It's not that there a= re too many Linux desktop distributions, it's that they're all different, t= hey all have supporters, and none of them can claim a majority of the marke= t. If you look at DistroWatch, you'll see zillions of these distributions. = Which one should we do? And, everyone keeps telling us that they want diffe= rent distributions. So, our conclusion is to do them all and let the custom= er decide." --- http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS3822185143.html A year ago they started selling Ubuntu systems. Today I read this: "No Consumer Linux from Novell or Red Hat" http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/blogs/mcallister_on_software/144799/n= o_consumer_linux_from_novell_or_red_hat.html Basically, Novell and Red Hat won't be trying to get consumer desktop market share, focusing instead only on the 'enterprise' desktop market; Fedora and openSUSE thus appear to be relegated to 'hobbyist OS' level. Ubuntu is now THE distro of choice for home use, with no major competitors, but I think we've known that for some time: http://www.google.com/trends?q=3DFedora%2C+Debian%2C+Ubuntu%2C+SUSE%2C+Mand= riva&ctab=3D0&geo=3Dall&date=3Dall&sort=3D2 (note that we're due for a big bump in the search results in about a week :) So going forward with Hardy, its time to focus on a new trend graph: http://www.google.com/trends?q=3DXP%2C+Vista%2C+Ubuntu%2C+Apple&ctab=3D0&ge= o=3Dall&date=3Dall&sort=3D2 :-) XP is on its way out; Vista is mediocre at best and an excellent example of bloatware, but still has inertia helping it along; OS X is tied to Apple's hardware, so the mid-to-high end of the market. There's going to be a tipping point soon; the "race to the bottom" that Son= y, et al are terrified of: $300 (or less) sub-notebooks and similar devices. http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9879798-7.html That's not Apple's market. Vista won't run on them. XP, even discounted, would add a significant percentage cost. Then there's Ubuntu :) I hope to see Hardy Heron really take flight and see some Ubuntu preloads from new sources this year. On store shelves for Christmas would be nice :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: barx (thebarx) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 04:06:38 -0000 Message-Id: <20080426040639.5211.50192.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> That bug fix can be resolved. Like in Polland and another countries we use guindouze's pirate software, because it's the only OS that they know. I'm now a properly Linux User, but Linux wasn't something that I could in a store. Here in Guadalajara (Mexico), in the University of the Technological Institute of the Superior Education of Mexico in Spanish ITESM many people is strating using Linux, Why? easy. Exists some cancer for Microsoft Named "Windows vista" Even people that never had been related to computers knows that Vista is Unfunctional, Unstable and many of the times troublesome. Technicians in the Tec(we prefer call with that nickname to the university) have been working with fedora core 2, by many years, and is instaled in some computer in a bootable sesion. One year Ago I have promoted Ubuntu to my classmates, teachers and many, many people. And some of them finally experimented to put ubuntu on their laptops. So, I have seen, and my classmates, friends, teachers, that Virus, for me is unrelated, haha, I have not to spend in programs and people to install me programs and I can print and have good wireless internet reception, well that was when I had my HP-laptop. Nowadays I got a Toshiba Satellite AMD 64 turion, and Ati, yes, many tarballs and steps to have configured, the alsa driver I had to donwload from a web page, the video driver I got i the restricted drivers and now to go wirelss I have to open everyday the realtek modified driver folder, ./makedrv and ./wlan0up. It's too unconfortable the steps I had and have to do to get a prepared toshiba, is not impossible, but promoting in school I know that many people will change to linux, and that will make to enterprises not only to preinstall OS on new computers, maybe they'll do RPM's Echo's or Deb's ready to install for drivers and many, other things. And I have the hope . . . One day Ubuntu will be named by all, and used by majority. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Srikrishna Das (srikrishna) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:10:52 -0000 Message-Id: <20080428181052.21395.8778.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Well, atleast I didn't get a high end linux laptop on a search of about 1 month. At last, I bought an Acer 4315. Any company who claims to be selling linux = models are doing that only on low/medium models. All high end models are Vi= sta certified and shipped.=20 I can't get a refund on unused copy of Vista, said my dealer. So I took a m= id-config laptop. About resolving the bug, I put exclamation on my face whenever I go to any net cafe or PC distributo= r having windows. I tell them that the new hotness is linux; clear some dou= bts (it's fun to see their mouths go wide open when I show them my lappie r= unning linux without antivirus and virus) and then final touch - leave a co= py of ubuntu there. :P --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: naryl (cy-ngs) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 20:41:01 -0000 Message-Id: <20080428204101.22266.75377.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Reproduced in St. Petersburg, Russia. In 95% of the cases PC comes with OEM Vista. The other 5% are low-end laptops with XP(approx. 3,5%) or FreeDOS(1,5%). Not a single linux. And they refused to give me refund for Vista. Actually it's so bad that the majority of PC users think that "In order for computer to work it must have Microsoft Windows installed". --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Stephan van Ingen (stephanvaningen) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:36:54 -0000 Message-Id: I like these tactics! I do kind-of these confrontations in shops too :-) 2008/4/28 Srikrishna Das : > Well, atleast I didn't get a high end linux laptop on a search of about > 1 month. > > At last, I bought an Acer 4315. Any company who claims to be selling linux > models are doing that only on low/medium models. All high end models are > Vista certified and shipped. > I can't get a refund on unused copy of Vista, said my dealer. So I took a > mid-config laptop. > > About resolving the bug, > I put exclamation on my face whenever I go to any net cafe or PC > distributor having windows. I tell them that the new hotness is linux; cl= ear > some doubts (it's fun to see their mouths go wide open when I show them my > lappie running linux without antivirus and virus) and then final touch - > leave a copy of ubuntu there. :P > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --=20 http://stephanvaningen.net stephanvaningen@gmail.com I am a happy www.ubuntu.com user -- --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Leandro Pereira de Lima e Silva (leandro-limaesilva) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 13:35:18 -0000 Message-Id: <20080429133518.32124.87366.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Here in Brazil (specifically Rio de Janeiro) we observe several computers with Linux on stores, but as soon as the users gets its hands on it, they switch back to Windows without even giving it a try. I also bought a laptop with linux (Mandriva). It came all misconfigured, if it had happened to someone that doesn't actually is used to using linux, that would have created a terrible impression. Selling pc's with Linux here has the same effect as selling pc's with pirate copy of Windows. I think some education measures should be taken in order to fix this bug completely. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Srikrishna Das (srikrishna) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:13:11 -0000 Message-Id: <20080429181311.32124.33942.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> My laptop came with linpus and no X. Thats really great!!! And moreover atheros wi-fi was not working in linpus = either.=20 They could just have put any graphical version or atleast mention in their = website specifications for laptop. It just says Linux! Well, a click on shi= pit would have given free CD. If its windows, they'd write Genuine ...... and also provide a link to micr= osoft. Can't they write linux distro name and provide a link to that. Saves them t= ime to explain what is being provided. Laptop vendors supporting linux is just a matter of saying. Would they ship Vista without half the things working? No. They'd even take time to install their drivers on it. This behaviour is because Linux distros are still not seriously being considered worthy for commercial market. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:06:23 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0804291306y3c4f2568l96b5042c1bc2c674@mail.gmail.com> Good point !! On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Srikrishna Das wrote: > My laptop came with linpus and no X. > > Thats really great!!! And moreover atheros wi-fi was not working in linpus > either. > They could just have put any graphical version or atleast mention in their > website specifications for laptop. It just says Linux! Well, a click on > shipit would have given free CD. > If its windows, they'd write Genuine ...... and also provide a link to > microsoft. > Can't they write linux distro name and provide a link to that. Saves them > time to explain what is being provided. > > Laptop vendors supporting linux is just a matter of saying. Would they > ship Vista without half the things working? No. They'd even take time to > install their drivers on it. > > This behaviour is because Linux distros are still not seriously being > considered worthy for commercial market. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Confirmed > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Source Package "bum" in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in Source Package "casper" in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in Source Package "djplay" in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in Source Package "firefox" in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in Source Package "ubuntu-express" in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in Source Package "linux" in Debian GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --=20 http://picasaweb.google.com/allenggraham/Mazatlan --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Robin Winslow (nottrobin) Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 20:46:25 -0000 Message-Id: <20080505204625.19304.23974.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Presumably, although they are scarce, there are some retailers who do deliberately sell new computers with distros of Linux on them, and in some cases Ubuntu. I even read near the top that there was a provider in Brazil was it? - that provided computers with customized Ubuntu on it - and that was three years ago! I think Ubuntu should have a prominent page on their website that lists all retailers that sell computer with Ubuntu pre-installed, and perhaps a secondary list of providers that sell computers with other Linux distros. Maybe it could even have a search feature to find your nearest store? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: SneakyWho_am_i (sneakywho-am-i) Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 08:54:26 -0000 Message-Id: <20080507085426.28808.62278.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Every day I use this distribution I come to love it more. Some guy tried to mock me because I said that I had been an adept Windows u= ser, but hadn't had it installed for a year. He said "and you're probably u= sing Ubuntu, Mr 'adept' Windows user". Well, yeah, I am using Ubuntu. Somet= hing wrong with it? He was just being grumpy cause I caught him lying about= his occupation (claimed to program computers in a hundred odd languages, b= ut didn't know what the stuff was called that you eventually compile and ru= n) and mocking OS X users. (I was an adept Windows user, though. At least by my standards. I could wri= te .bat files, Disable automatic restarts after updates through the managem= ent console, Change the MTU in the registry, rename everything, edit the me= nus.... None of these things are easy for Windows users. See how many your = Windows friends can do...) Verily, even after using Mandrake, Xandros etc on and off for a few years, = Ubuntu sounded terrible.. Very popular, with a rapidly increasing market sh= are... Sounds like an interface dumbed down enough for total newbies, but w= ith the same cryptic, intimidating, overwhelming, unstable rubbish under th= e hood that had required me to try compiling my own drivers for winmodems, = etc, etc, etc..... - I was right. By default it is very simple to use. You can just drop in a = CD and immediately surf the net. Turns out that was a good thing - I was right, it does seem very complicated under the hood when you switch= from Windows. It's not though, it's just not trying to hide everything fro= m you. Also a good thing. - I was wrong about the drivers. Ubuntu has drivers for all my hardware in = the repositories I haven't had to lift a finger in that regard, unlike on W= indows where I spent a week hunting down drivers (which came with all this = horrible management software which you couldn't uninstall and never had a u= se for) A Windows user the other day asked for advice cause she thought there was a= keylogger on her system. I know that most keyloggers are stealthed now but= the antivirus thing picked up nothing so why not start with the obvious? A= list of running processes. the command "ps" was not found on the system. There's a console-based equivalent which ships with Windows Server. It'd be= en so long I had had to look it up. She didn't have that. psList, downloaded through microsoft.com, did not run on her system for som= e unknown reason. In the end she gave up. heard nothing from her for a while and she had Prin= tScreened taskman repeatedly, glued together the screenshots in photoshop, = and then uploaded that. This process took about half an hour in all. Way to= o much effort. What was Windows XP Pro five years ago, four hundred bucks? = And Photoshop CS2, eight hundred? Both are great programs, but I don't thin= k someone who has spent $1200 on a drawing program and an operating system = should have to spend half an hour gluing together screenshots of their task= list. Photoshop is a fantastic program. Windows is great too, sure. And there pro= bably is a built-in command-line tasklist in Windows... But if there was, w= hy did we go to all that effort!?!?? The user had never even heard of Ubuntu. If I mention it again, she probabl= y will have forgotten? But in any event, it's events like this that make it very clear why Windows= retains its market share.... Humans are suckers for punishment. I'm still just slowly learning to use Linux properly, and rapidly (sadly) f= orgetting Windows... But I am not JUST surfing the internet or using emails= ., or using an instant messenger. I LOVE bash (can't script in it yet but l= ove it anyway)... No need to spend an extra 999 years to load a google SER= P a browser to try to download software :P when one can just type in three = little words: "apt-cache search whatever" Why wait half an hour for taskman to start on an older system, when I can j= ust bang out a handy "killall whicheverapplication" ?? I can do more in Ubuntu with the ALT, F2 and ENTER keys than what I can do = a mouse, a tech support helpdesk, and 10 coworkers standing by for any advi= ce I don't need. Or at least, I can do it faster. I'm ranting and being a *nix fanboy. I know. I confess. I don't want to rant about it at work or anything. They will figure it out = for themselves. Some of them already have. It's clear there how happy I am = with Linux now, when I am trying to use Office and I can't convert a data t= ype in Excel because it mishandles paste special. Or when I'm swearing beca= use cutting and pasting in Excel can produce different output (on paste) to= copying and pasting. Or when I'm getting angry because someone in another = office thinks it's funny to send me Excel Spreadsheets with "-" hyphens to = represent "zero" values. yeah, very funny, when it throws the chart thing o= ff. Some of the values are naturally negative! There is no regular expressi= on find and replace in Excel! There are no VisualBasic programmers at my wo= rk! Everything I try to do something with the software they prescribe at work, = I have to go to google and look for some program to do it. Highly frustrati= ng. Like I said, I think Windows is great. It's a fantastic, profoundly useful and very impressive collection/piece of software. It's just not "Me-Compatible" any more. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom Gruben (deflayer) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 20:00:06 -0000 Message-Id: <20080508200007.6688.42607.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> I am happy to report that there's a fair number of retailers selling/supporting Ubuntu on desktops as well as laptops in the Netherlands. They appear to be working on a fix for this little glitch. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 09:25:11 -0000 Message-Id: <20080509092511.780.39340.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Asus has had very good sales of their EeePC; they're cute little devices, but while they run Linux, their distro is a Xandros derivative and I won't support that (here's why: http://limulus.wordpress.com/2007/06/05/xandros-sells-out-to-microsoft- over-patents/) Now, with the latest version, the 900 (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASUS_Eee_PC#Eee_900_Series), they're offering a choice of Windows or Linux... at the same price* * except there's a hardware difference; as per http://eeepc.asus.com/global/900.htm --- S.S.D. Storage (Solid-State Disk) 12GB (4GB built-in + 8GB flash) SSD (Microsoft Windows OS Version) 20GB (4GB built-in +16GB flash) SSD (Linux OS Version) --- So the 'Microsoft tax' is on the order of ~$50 US (roughly speaking, based on the difference in price of 8 and 16 GB USB thumb drives these days and assuming that what Asus pays Xandros per system is small) which is about standard for large OEMs iiRC. (e.g. http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070525-windows-tax- is-50-according-to-dell-linux-pc-pricing.html) BUT... A report from Australia: http://apcmag.com/windowsbased_eeepc_cheaper_than_linux_one.htm --- Asus will sell the Windows XP model of its Eee PC 900 for a substantially c= heaper price than its Linux counterpart, raising questions about the compan= y's long term commitment to the Linux marketplace. At a Sydney launch event for the much-anticipated Eee PC 900 model, local product manager Albert Liang revealed that the XP model would sell for $599 in Australia, while the Linux model would be $649. To cover the licence cost associated with Windows XP Home and Microsoft Works =E2=80=94 = which replace a custom version of the Xandros Linux distribution and OpenOffice =E2=80=94 the XP model has just 12GB of storage, while the Linux version has 20GB. The machines, which sport a wider 8.9 inch screen and weigh in at just under a kilogram, will go on sale in Australia at the end of May. Adding to the impression that Linux is now the poor cousin, the XP version will be sold through "selected retailers" while the Linux machine will be available through "computer resellers". (Translation: No more Linux machines in Myer.) The original Eee PC, launched in Australia in November last year, has been a major success, selling one million units worldwide. "It has generated a tremendous amount of noise into the market," Liang said. While the presence of Linux clearly hasn't been a barrier to consumers buying the notebook to date, Asus appears keener to promote the presence of XP on the new range than to expand the Linux market. "Microsoft has been a longstanding supporter of Asus," Liang said. "People are asking for the familiar and compatible Windows interface that they've used in the past," said Keith Holtham, the account manager for Asus at Microsoft Australia. "The goal was to provide a platform that allows users to have access to their favourite applications." Holtham made much of the presence of Windows Live applications on the box, including Communicator, Photo Gallery and OneCare Family Safety. He then totally undermined the credibility of the latter by noting that his teenage children seemed able to find anything they wanted online regardless of such filtering software being present. APC played briefly with the machines on show at the launch. The XP version of the Eee boots quite speedily for a Windows box, but is still notably slower than its Linux counterpart. Even Asus' press release promoting the product acknowledges that the Linux machine is faster to get started. "It provides a fast boot-up time, ideal for quick internet access while waiting for public transport or taking notes on-the-go," it breathlessly proclaims. Apparently, "the Linux version is suited to users who desire an icon-driven= and easy point-and-click interface =E2=80=93 well suited for children or u= sers with limited computer experience". We'll leave the reader to deduce wh= at that implies about the XP interface.=20 --- (as per http://www.xe.com/ucc/ the $AU is ~ to the $US right now) So it appears that the Microsoft tax there is ~$0. Did Microsoft give them a special deal where they're offering Windows for next to nothing in exchange for promoting the Windows machine over the Linux one? Regardless, it shows how Linux (while a superior and less expensive OS, as the article notes) faces an uphill battle due to the OEM bottleneck. Consider Ubuntu: - free of cost - basically free of malware/virus risk - modest hardware requirements - good hardware support - quite usable etc. etc. etc. But consider the 'average computer user': - will never install an OS... ever. Wubi is a great leap that will probably get a lot of ACUs to try Ubuntu, but the machines they buy will still come with Windows unless something can be done to really breakthrough the Microsoft stranglehold on the OEMs. I will suggest as a goal that for the Christmas season, another Major OEM besides Dell should be shipping Ubuntu systems (and hopefully not hide them on their site either ): SABDFL can do the arm twisting in private ;) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tina Russell (tinarussell) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 09:55:30 -0000 Message-Id: On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 2:25 AM, Conrad Knauer wrote: > Asus has had very good sales of their EeePC; they're cute little > devices, but while they run Linux, their distro is a Xandros derivative > and I won't support that (here's why: > http://limulus.wordpress.com/2007/06/05/xandros-sells-out-to-microsoft- > over-patents/ > ) > I don't know, I think that it's a Xandros derivative rather than Xandros itself matters. A large component of open source is that the code, time, and effort is never invested all in one single leader. I know that Eric Raymond has said genuinely despicable things over the course of his career, but I imagine I probably use quite a bit of his code through regular daily use of my computer. So, I don't think we should assume that Xandros's unfortunate failure to stand up to Microsoft's bogus patent racket means that downstream code is somehow tainted. I agree with what you say, though, totally... we must ensure Ubuntu gets on desktops so that people can see what it's made of, and Asus' half-heartedness is a little dissappointing. (It's funny that the Windows laptop has less HD space; I wonder how much of that space is even left after Windows is installed!) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jose (josea.munoz) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 15:44:25 -0000 Message-Id: <20080509154425.780.35313.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> If Windows XP starts to work as Vista (have a look in http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=3D08/05/09/1258229), we will close this bug soon, hehe. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 07:17:42 -0000 Message-Id: <20080511071742.10339.91640.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Some good news to share :) This was posted to the ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list just a few hours a= go: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2008-May/004196.html --- Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 21:38:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Azinger Subject: I would just like to say... =20 This post is for all of you out there who have developed or contributed to = Linux/Ubuntu projects and all of the open source coders who read this.I do = not know where to send a post like this so I hope this one email will find = its way in the sea of posts out there. I thank you to the point of tears. Earlier this week I installed Kubuntu on a refurbished AMD computer I purchased for $184 from a discount online vendor, it came with no OS. It now runs like a champ. We cant afford much and this was my 14 year old daughter's birthday present this past week. She is overjoyed. And she is already trying to tackle Adept Manager and exploring Linux; adding bling and her music, of course. I cant tell you how much I appreciate the work you all have done. Its a work of art. If I could thank each and every one of you I would. You have given her the world to learn and explore. So if you get frustrated or tired in your work for Open Source/Free Software, just remember that somewhere in Missouri there is a 14 year- old girl named Hope, an A-student who runs on the track team, who is now your biggest fan and one of the newest users of Linux/Ubuntu. Thanks most sincerely, R.B.A. Missouri --- --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: LimCore (limcore) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 06:10:29 -0000 Message-Id: <20080514061029.31491.83950.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> I like Ubuntu and all, and I'm grateful to everyone for the nice work. But still, unfortunately, Ubuntu is quite buggy. Number of bugs in main components, and in security is quite bad. Main des= ktop applications have serious problems, firefox 3 have issues, GUI doesn't= work very well (xgl-new and Xgl and compiz problems) and the recent security bugs. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/230180 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Vladimir Meremyanin (v-stiff) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 07:07:02 -0000 Message-Id: <20080514070702.31366.2763.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> I switched to xcompmgr - it works quite stable. Firefox - b5 is COMPLETELY unusable, sometime I get a feeling that no on had ever run it before releasing. I downloaded b4 (without flash) and had just a couple crashes (veeery goood!) for few months. Epiphany is veery stable, but is so primitive, missing some features. Frankly, I don't understand all the talks above about marketing - we need to sell computers with ubuntu, etc. Don't you wonder, why Apple doesn't bother selling Dell's with Mac OS X? Because it just works. People will buy it anyway: for money, with losing most of their freedom, with disagreement to management process behind it, but they buy and forget for some time about crashes, kernel compilations ( please, don't tell me it's not required: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/191137 ). They just use it. As for me it is absolutely impossible with current state of ubuntu - I always MUST care about my OS. setup - configure fonts, compiz, ff, etc.. (I care of my freedom and don't have a mac (yet?)) If you really want to help ubuntu fix/report bugs, share configuration that works, all people need is a good product - they will get it anyway, even if windows is installed by default. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: donflint (don-pacific-sailing-deactivatedaccount) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 20:51:19 -0000 Message-Id: <20080516205119.9389.78374.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Easily reproduced in Santa Barbara. Government and corporate CEO's have beg= un a media blitz utilizing the "fear campaign" and have suggested that the = use of Free and Open Software is a threat to National Security and the well= being of the human race. In my opinion, a patch won't be enough and recomm= end a complete service pack release to combat this malicious activity. If only my Ubuntu would remember window positions.......... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Chris Roddy (cmr) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 20:56:38 -0000 Message-Id: <20080522205638.21497.9714.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Close as invalid. This is a deeply misguided priority. Making Ubuntu the best it can be does not require a majority market share. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: David Vasta (david-vasta) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 01:56:50 -0000 Message-Id: Chris, Someone finally said it and I think you are one the money. Bug 1 should be major adoption because it's the best OS for Home and Business. I think we would be taking a play out of the Microsoft hand book if we did what they did 20 years ago and just focused on delivering a top notch OS and let the rest sort itself out! Bravo! On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 4:56 PM, Chris Roddy wrote: > Close as invalid. > > This is a deeply misguided priority. Making Ubuntu the best it can be > does not require a majority market share. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --=20 David Vasta Charlotte, NC UNIX Certified Systems Administrator www.davidandkelly.com www.iSeriesAddict.com --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Adrien Cordonnier (adrien-cordonnier) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 06:45:06 -0000 Message-Id: <20080523064506.654.57581.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Chris, you understood the bug report the opposite way. Indeed making Ubuntu the best it can be does not require a majority market share: the bug report suggest that a majority market share for Ubuntu requires it to be the best it can be. IMHO, this alone won't fix the bug because if you buy a laptop to install Ubuntu, it is likely to be pre-installed with Windows, so Windows market share is unchanged. The only bugfix I can see is being able to refuse Windows EULA and get refund for unused Windows licences such as: French Judge Orders Refund For Pre-Installed XP http://news.slashdot.org/news/08/05/19/0154224.shtml Money more than free excellence will make people shift to Linux. When people will they save 130=E2=82=AC (~ 200$) to use Ubuntu, it will make a b= igger difference than a bunch of nice features and bugfixes. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Vladimir Meremyanin (v-stiff) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 07:59:28 -0000 Message-Id: <20080523075928.5182.12004.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> >> Money more than free excellence will make people shift to Linux. When people will they save 130=E2=82=AC (~ 200$) to use Ubuntu, it will make a b= igger difference than a bunch of nice features and bugfixes. Completely disagree. People want their tool work. Predictability, simplicity is what some of us ready to pay for. Look at Mac OS. It costs money - yet, it has more users than Ubuntu does. What do you like more: broken car for free, or a good reliable for money? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: HappySpaceInvader (richard-cross) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 08:09:38 -0000 Message-Id: <20080523080938.5182.46290.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> @LimCore To be honest, it's not the bugs in Ubuntu that prevent it from gaining market share, it's the archaic design that requires users to be computer geeks. For example, I want to be able to have Pidgin instant messenger launch at login. Can I select this in the preferences? No. Can I drag the Pidgin launcher from the menu into the Sessions 'Additional Startup Items'? Unfortunately not. If I choose Add Startup Program, can I select from a nice list of applications? I can't even do that. Whart I have to do is click on Add (in the Sessions/Additional Startup Items pane) whereupon I'm present with the opportunity to browse (note, I'm not able to search) the filesystem for the binary file that launches Pidgin. And by default, it dumps me in my home directory as a place to start looking. This is crap. Of course, you could run 'locate pidgin' in a terminal... or you could look at the launcher settings for Pidgin in Preferences->Main Menu... but how is anyone other than a Linux geeks supposed to know that? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: alpharay (wrongloop) Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 05:58:51 -0000 Message-Id: <4837AE9B.7030908@gmail.com> Vladimir Meremyanin wrote: >>> Money more than free excellence will make people shift to Linux. When >>> =20 > people will they save 130=E2=82=AC (~ 200$) to use Ubuntu, it will make a= bigger > difference than a bunch of nice features and bugfixes. > > Completely disagree. People want their tool work. Predictability, > simplicity is what some of us ready to pay for. Look at Mac OS. It costs > money - yet, it has more users than Ubuntu does. > > What do you like more: broken car for free, or a good reliable for > money? > > =20 It's not to show off, but I got my computer by around 300 dls, without=20 the monitor, I got everything myself, it was my first time doing it so I=20 had some problems as I got the cheapest memory, 400 gbs for around 100=20 buck which now I have to replace. but still was a great buy as I got 3.4=20 ghz, still got 2 gb of memory, and around 700 gb of space. with ubuntu I=20 got everythink I nee. --Thanks to Linux I am not paying Windows. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Vladimir Meremyanin (v-stiff) Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 07:29:29 -0000 Message-Id: <5d6dbf610805240029kf7868cahc72d38189000b41f@mail.gmail.com> What should we understand from this example? Majority of people do it that way? Five years ago, or so, it was funny for me to play with hardware, as you describe. Now it's not. And by looking around, most people (not all, I now a lot of examples of geeks who are using their own Linux from scratch) are using computer just as a tool. Ubuntu is targeted exactly those people as far as I understand it (they are sometimes called 'beginners'). My point is: if Ubuntu was perfect, I can bet no one will ever use Windows. Any step to perfection means more users =3D market share, automatically leading to adoption on laptops/computers. On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 9:58 AM, alpharay < francisco.javier.santiago.ruiz@gmail.com> wrote: > Vladimir Meremyanin wrote: > >>> Money more than free excellence will make people shift to Linux. When > >>> > > people will they save 130=E2=82=AC (~ 200$) to use Ubuntu, it will make= a bigger > > difference than a bunch of nice features and bugfixes. > > > > Completely disagree. People want their tool work. Predictability, > > simplicity is what some of us ready to pay for. Look at Mac OS. It costs > > money - yet, it has more users than Ubuntu does. > > > > What do you like more: broken car for free, or a good reliable for > > money? > > > > > It's not to show off, but I got my computer by around 300 dls, without > the monitor, I got everything myself, it was my first time doing it so I > had some problems as I got the cheapest memory, 400 gbs for around 100 > buck which now I have to replace. but still was a great buy as I got 3.4 > ghz, still got 2 gb of memory, and around 700 gb of space. with ubuntu I > got everythink I nee. --Thanks to Linux I am not paying Windows. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Fernando Miguel (fernandomiguel) Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 10:35:03 -0000 Message-Id: <200805241135.06787.Ubuntu@bugabundo.net> Ol=C3=A1 Adrien e a todos. On Friday 23 May 2008 07:45:06 Adrien Cordonnier wrote: > IMHO, this alone won't fix the bug because if you buy a laptop to > install Ubuntu, it is likely to be pre-installed with Windows, so > Windows market share is unchanged. The only bugfix I can see is being > able to refuse Windows EULA and get refund for unused Windows licences It took me 3 months to choose a brand new laptop, since I wanted one that w= ould not bring a pre-installed proprietary OS. After I bought it, I found out that I couldnt use my wifi card (an Intel ag= n 4965). After much looking in google, ubuntu wiki, Launchpad, forums, I en= ded up on several dead ends. Finally I found a bug tracker for IntelLinuxDrivers but even that didnt fix= my problem. So I opened up a LP Question (#32865) but that didnt help much, and after a= bit of talk with the only person interested in helping, I converted it int= o a bug ticket. So to answer to your email, to me, the problem is not to get a PC/Laptop wi= th free (as in Libre) OS, but hardware support. I now have this laptop for = 3 weeks and am still unable to use the wifi card. For many ppl this would b= e a strong argument to not use Ubuntu or any other GNU/Linux OS. Still I use it every day, as the single OS installed on my machine, and sti= ll promote Ubuntu every day to anyone I can, give initiation courses to reg= ular users, bug store managers to pre-install Ubuntu and so on. Now are you or anyone else on this huge bug report, able to take a look at this ticket of mine and help me continue to promote Ubuntu the best way possible so we can make it BETTER and used by more PEOPLE (more market share)? https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/32865 --=20 BUGabundo :o) (``-_-=C2=B4=C2=B4) http://Ubuntu.BUGabundo.net Linux user #443786 GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Botscharow (jbotscharow) Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 17:57:21 -0000 Message-Id: <20080524175722.21887.95085.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I switched to Ubuntu from Windows at the beginning of April 2008 and I love it. I also joined the marketing teman today because that is the one area where I feel U can contribute the most to the commubity. You see, unlike most people who use any Linux distribution, I am not a vomputer "wonk" or "geek" or whatever other term you wish to use. The reason I switched to Ubuntu rather than any other Linux distro is that it was recommended to me by the person who owns my web host as a Linux distro that is easy to set up and use and does not require a lot of technical expertise. I've noticed that there is a lot of emphasis on distributing Ubuntu at LUGs, which to me is like taking coal to Newcastle, to use an old cliche. We need to market Ubuntu to Windows users - people who do not get very much involved in the technical aspects of owning a computer. They want software that works without a lot of fiddling with configuation - which describes Ubunru. We also need to make it as easy as possible for people to run Windows based software - like the most popular computer games - on Ubuntu distros. I have three other computers in my house - all of them Windows, because I can't figure out how to make those programs - mainly games - that my wife and children use work in Ubunru. If we can do this, that will help in the short term to convince Windows users to switch to Ubuntu. In the long term we need to break the monopoly that Windows has on what OS computer manufactures install on their new systems. That will not be easy for the same reason that I do not switch my other three computers. The software manufacturers are also being monopolized by Microsoft. The only way this monopoly can be broken in the USA is political action. We need the same sort of legal results in the US Supreme Court as what happened in the EU Supreme Court. Microsoft is an illegal monopoly but there is little effort on the part of US regulatory agencies to enforce the laws when it coems to Microsoft. We need to somehow motivate the US government to break the stranglehold that MS has on US computer and software manufacturers. That will be very very difficult and will get more so the longer the monopoly exists. I think our best hope is to start with the independent software manufacturers and help them design Ubintu-friendly and user- friendly versions of their software, especially the manufacturers of the more popular online and computer games. I have a couple in mind as prime targets, but not sure if it is permitted to mention specific manufacturers here. Peace! John Botscharow --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Shane Fagan (shanepatrickfagan) Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 18:43:58 -0000 Message-Id: <20080524184358.5852.10339.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Ubuntu can do most of what windows can do only faster and for free. Its not impossible to have most programs working under Linux its just that the market isnt flexible enough to change easily. Computer shops, manufacturers, software engineers need to all agree and at the moment they are all in Microsoft's pocket and the only way to force change is to get the public to switch. Its the case of "if you build it they will come" If the public switch the market will switch accordingly. Maybe get the word out there and to do that maybe we need some corporate sponsorship to fund TV adds etc to get the public talking. In my opinion the best way to solve this problem is to make Ubuntu more stable and more usable. If we as a community continue to support Ubuntu and help in any way we can, we can bring software into the 21st century and stop Microsoft from halting innovation by keeping computing locked in a monopoly. Maybe then we will have some real choice but at the moment this is only a dream of our entire community. Shane Fagan --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Wander Nauta (info-wandernauta-deactivatedaccount) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 15:47:18 -0000 Message-Id: <20080526154718.5182.8847.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> I would know something that might help to fix this bug; create a Great Game - stuff other people pay 50 bucks or more for - and have a trailer at the beginning. People then know what FOSS is, what Ubuntu is, etc. and I have a cool game that I can play for free. Fair deal. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Botscharow (jbotscharow) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 17:55:54 -0000 Message-Id: <20080526175555.26171.89310.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Wouldn't designing proprietary software - this Great Game - put us in the same category as Microsoft? We would no longer be open and free. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?q?Rui_Ara=C3=BAjo_=28rui-araujo=29?= Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 21:14:05 -0000 Message-Id: <20080526211405.25634.15780.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> You can create a Great Game and STILL be open and free... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Botscharow (jbotscharow) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 03:43:47 -0000 Message-Id: <20080527034347.3497.56828.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> At this point, the only viable way to begin to fix this bug is for as many Ubuntu users as possible to evangelize for Ubuntu wherever and whenever possible. Everything we say and do Ubuntu-wise is marketing for Ubuntu. We must all become guerrilla marketers for Ubuntu with anyone and everyone we know who owns a computer and especially with those people who use Windows. You need to act as if every Windows user wishes they had an alternative to Windows - and most of them do!!!! Give Ubuntu as presents or even a tip for your favorite waitress! If you are in school and your school uses Windows, tell them about Ubuntu - especially any teachers or professors that teach computer science or anyone you know who does IT for the school. If you have a blog and use Ubuntu, talk about Uvubtu on your blog. Put a link to the site in your web links. Help build Ubuntu.s Google ranking to bring more people to the site and to Ubuntu. We need to convert the "pagans" - Windows users - one soul at a time. The more of us willing to do it, the bigger the snowball gets and the faster it grows! Evangelize and evangelize often!!! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Nick Ellery (nick.ellery) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 04:03:42 -0000 Message-Id: <20080527040343.25634.57563.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> I agree with exactly what John said. Converting three of four people into full time Ubuntu users would that they would convert their share too, who would convert even more. I personally believe that the only way to spread Ubuntu is to make it known, and for EVERY single computer user to be aware that they do have a choice! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: alpharay (wrongloop) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 05:19:36 -0000 Message-Id: <483B99E8.7020100@gmail.com> Nick Ellery wrote: > I agree with exactly what John said. Converting three of four people > into full time Ubuntu users would that they would convert their share > too, who would convert even more. I personally believe that the only > way to spread Ubuntu is to make it known, and for EVERY single computer > user to be aware that they do have a choice! > > =20 Absolutely, that is the way to do it, but If you got some friends that=20 barely know how to search for something or say google something for an=20 answer; well it's kind of hard like me, I got this friend that he could=20 be asking questions for like 4 hours and not search by himself. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Nick_Hill (nick-nickhill) Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 11:18:10 -0000 Message-Id: <20080605111810.3820.14307.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> From discussing on IRC and between friends, it seems uncontroversial to suggest 8.04 has more bugs than we'd like. Far more than we'd like for an LTS. Many of them being regressions. Not to mention beta Firefox. At the same time, there are perhaps millions using Ubuntu, and I often have opportunities to be the first bug reporter (sometimes for show stoppers), despite being busy, and not focusing on finding Ubuntu bugs. 10 friends are Ubuntu users. None file bugs unless shepherded by me, where I give them real-time directions on how to actually report bugs in Ubuntu. I therefore propose a thought experiment; take 10 average half-computer- literate people who have encountered Ubuntu before, so already have a rough idea of how to launch an application, and know where to find the administration menu. Point out to each in turn something which is clearly not functioning the way it should. Very few of them, unless previously primed will ask out loud, or ask themselves "How do we tell Ubuntu about this?". Therefore, users of Ubuntu must be primed to report bugs. This should be a clear part of the Ubuntu design; prime users to report bugs! Stage two of the thought experiment: Ask each user in turn to inform Ubuntu about the bug. Maybe 10-30% will have found Launchpad before giving up. Probably from typing "Ubuntu bug" in google. 70-90% of these previously primed people will likely have completely lost their way before getting to the BTS. For stage three, we need to imagine the original sample size was much larger. So we'll talk in terms of percentages. Of this 10% left, who found their way to Launchpad, who have already been primed from personal contact, many are likely to get lost in Launchpad, finding their way out of the Ubuntu page, searching projects on Launchpad, rather than searching bugs in Ubuntu. We are probably down to 3-5% of primed people by now even having successfully performed a search for their bug on Launchpad. Stage 4. Of that 3-5%, if the bug has not already been filed, I estimate perhaps 0.5-1% will actually report a bug, and not be put off by 1) not being able to identify with a good degree of confidence, which package the bug is supposed to be filed against and 2) Having to register / have a valid email address etc. I therefore suggest that with the current BTS arrangement, maybe half to one percent of 'ordinary computer users' personally primed, will successfully file any bug. If not primed, perhaps one in 1000 or 1 in 5,000. The number of bugs considered of good quality and as a basis of a fix will be much smaller still. I would welcome a debate on how to make the Ubuntu bug tracking user interface, right away along the line from detecting a bug to triage, inclusive to 'ordinary computer users'. I'll kick off by suggesting: 1) When a user account is created, by default, beg users to file bugs, and = point them to the BTS 2) The Ubuntu bug tracking system should have only Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Edubunt= u or other siblings which share the same packages - there should be no way = for users to get lost in other projects on the same bug tracking system.=20 3) The root of the Ubuntu bug tracking system should actually be at an easy= to remember URL such as http://bugs.ubuntu.com/ . (This URL does currently= re-direct to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs). 4) The hardest part - make it much easier for users to identify which packa= ge the bug is related to. I am an experienced user and find this step chall= enging. Maybe a clear decision tree, with unambiguous, easy questions, or s= ome graphical system. 5) When a bug is marked as a duplicate, the title of the bug should remain = searchable (at least for months) as a 'common user' may identify a bug usin= g different words to those used by the developer. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Botscharow (jbotscharow) Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 11:59:06 -0000 Message-Id: <20080605115906.24336.28787.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> As one of those "half-literate" computer users that Nick Hill mentioned in his comment, I would like to offer a more comprehensive suggestion which would incorporate Nick's recommendations: The entire user support system needs to be re-organized so that is is designed for "half-literate" dunnies like me and not for "fully literate" geeks :-) The geeks may be heart and soul of Ubuntu, but if we want to chip away at Microsoft's market share, Ubuntu needs to be "half- literate"-computer-user-friendly The first thing that needs to be done is to change the menu on a user's Launchpad page to provide easy-to-find links to documentation, filing bug reports, and other useful resources for the new user As someone who just recently switched to Ubuntu from Windows XP, one of the real attractions of Ubuntu is belonging to a REAL community of REAL users and, at least on the mailing lists, the fact that I am only "half- literate" has not been a drawback Some users, at least, take pity on us poor dummines :-) A final comment for Nick: One of the reasons that these "half-literae" users do not report bugs may be that they are not even aware there is a bug I, for one, find Ubuntu 8.04 a hell of lot less buggy, from the perspective of the average user, than my daughter does her Windows Vista LOL Now, if we could get Ubuntu to run World of Warcraft, I could probably get my kids to switch to Ubuntu!!!! Especially if it worked better on Ubuntu than on Windows!! THAT would be a real marketing coup!!! Peace! John Botscharow --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 15:56:21 -0000 Message-Id: <48480CA5.9010603@hal-pc.org> Nick_Hill wrote: >>From discussing on IRC and between friends, it seems uncontroversial to > suggest 8.04 has more bugs than we'd like. Far more than we'd like for > an LTS. Many of them being regressions. Not to mention beta Firefox. Understatement. Company wide, we have frozen on Gutsy other then one=20 home test system and my Laptop. I curse at both regularly. :)=20 Slightly less lately, so an upgrade may be soon. [lots of other good comments omitted] > I'll kick off by suggesting: > 1) When a user account is created, by default, beg users to file bugs, an= d point them to the BTS > 2) The Ubuntu bug tracking system should have only Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Edubu= ntu or other siblings which share the same packages - there should be no wa= y for users to get lost in other projects on the same bug tracking system. = > 3) The root of the Ubuntu bug tracking system should actually be at an ea= sy to remember URL such as http://bugs.ubuntu.com/ . (This URL does current= ly re-direct to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs). > 4) The hardest part - make it much easier for users to identify which pac= kage the bug is related to. I am an experienced user and find this step cha= llenging. Maybe a clear decision tree, with unambiguous, easy questions, or= some graphical system. I beg to differ here. Make it irrelevant. Have an "advanced" and a=20 "beginner" setting early in apport, and the beginner steeing just makes=20 guesses behind the scenes. Yes this is more work for the bug wranglers,=20 but it makes it much simpler for the user. Moreover, the user sees=20 instant action in e-mail. Let me repeat that. THE USER SEES INSTANT=20 ACTION ON HIS BUG IN E-MAIL. Compare that to Microsoft... If the bug=20 tracker is made easy, not only will we get better bug reports, it=20 becomes an amazing marketing tool. So much for the "Linux has not=20 support" FUD. > 5) When a bug is marked as a duplicate, the title of the bug should remain searchable (at least for months) as a 'common user' may identify a bug using different words to those used by the developer. 6) Either fix the policy problems that prevent known broken systems=20 from being fixed, or figure out a way to tell a new user that leaving=20 his app broken is better for him. Specifically the QEMU issue in Gutsy with BOCHS BIOS and version freeze=20 is a good example. When a showstopper bug can only be fixed by a=20 version upgrade, it stays broke for 6 months. New users are baffled by=20 this, and if the app is critical, they will go back to Windows rather=20 than find the fix. (A backported BOCHS BIOS in this case) I understand=20 the reason, but I still shake my head in wonder occasionally. However this is a very good plan. The bug tracker is an amazing=20 marketing tool, because MS has nothing like this. My mother (the=20 classic example) files a bad dupe of a common bug. She gets an e-mail=20 saying it is moved to an existing bug. She gets an e-mail saying it is=20 worked on. She gets an e-mail says fix uploaded. She gets a fix for=20 her bug. She feels a dev was dispatched to fix HER BUG. She tells the=20 ladies in her knitting group how that nice man fixed her bug so fast.=20 (actually she does not knit, but I love clich=C3=A9s...) How cool is that? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom Janes (portals) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 09:35:36 -0000 Message-Id: <20080606093536.16476.59583.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Breaking News! Little did anyone know, but Microsoft has been working in conjunction with Linux programmers and users to completely, and for all time, erradicate this problem. They have been working covertly, though. In the latter part of 2007, Microsoft released the new Vista OS. However, the company never informed anyone that Vista was marketed as a ploy to get everyone to switch over to a Linux based deriviative OS. This was accomplished by Microsoft programmers, who, deciding they've had enough from their employer, wrote code that was user unfriendly in both its operation and functionality. Because of this, millions of new Linux users are streaming into the market, dumping their Windows products to load up a new OS that is far, far better. I know, as I am one of them. After spending over $1000 on two new machines that came loaded with Vista, I am now in the process of scraping every Microsoft product from my library, and I will smash my machines into a million pieces before I ever install that junk again. To all Linux, Ubunto, Kabunto, and others programming these systems, I just want to say thanks. I would also like to extend this thanks to all Microsoft's programmers as well, for if it was not for their incompetence, I would not have made the change. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: soumyajit (iamwhatiam-soumyajit) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 10:29:11 -0000 Message-Id: <20080606102911.16476.31809.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> GOOD ONE TOM! :-). I also confirm the same effect. My friend bought one top of the line laptop pre-installed with vista... it took him two days to get frustrated... then i offered him my hardy heron CD. since then he is as happy as ever! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Shlomi Fish (shlomif-gmail) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2008 09:12:16 -0000 Message-Id: <20080607091216.30282.86190.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> May my soul die with Philistines! This bug I filed - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/237852 - was closed on the grounds that it wasn't a software bug with Ubuntu. However, it pointed out a real issue in the Ubuntu community. This bug is not a software bug, either, and it's not real: you don't see a bug on the Mozilla bug-tracker saying that some people are still using Internet Explorer, or on the KDE bug-tracker that some people are still using GNOME, etc. So I demand this bug to be closed too. Or else my other bug should be open. See also http://community.livejournal.com/shlomif_tech/11379.html Regards, Shlomi Fish --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Oli (oli) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2008 11:41:38 -0000 Message-Id: <20080607114139.30282.64861.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Shlomi: Grow up. Chase your issue across the community support in the forums, not on unrelated threads in Launchpad. Proclaiming Ubuntu dead just because you can't get your issues answered immediately isn't helping matters either. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: blackghost (doctormapache) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 00:40:24 -0000 Message-Id: <20080608004024.30782.49866.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> @ Shlomi Yes, it is not a software bug but: 1.- Nobody dies using some sense of humor. 2.- It's good to know people people helping to others to get into free software. 3.- If you are piss with somebody from Canonical use the correct communications ways. and yes, it's a bug from Mozilla people using IE (and thinking that IE is THE browser). ------ The PC needed Windows Vista o greater, this is why installed Ubuntu. [Linux= User # 468588, Ubuntu user # 21305] --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Vivirito (gnomefreak) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 11:19:39 -0000 Message-Id: <484BC04B.8000905@gmail.com> Shlomi Fish wrote: > May my soul die with Philistines! > > This bug I filed - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/237852 - was > closed on the grounds that it wasn't a software bug with Ubuntu. > However, it pointed out a real issue in the Ubuntu community. This bug > is not a software bug, either, and it's not real: you don't see a bug on > the Mozilla bug-tracker saying that some people are still using Internet > Explorer, or on the KDE bug-tracker that some people are still using > GNOME, etc. > > So I demand this bug to be closed too. Or else my other bug should be > open. > > See also http://community.livejournal.com/shlomif_tech/11379.html > > Regards, > > Shlomi Fish > > =20 Shlomi, Please understand complaining about freenode channels is not a bug but something that should be brought infront of the community council since that is why it exists. This is a bug filed by the founder and chief of Ubuntu and this bug isnta complaint it is a goal for the community. Please refrain from bringing your complaints or issues that you have about IRC to Launchpad as that is not why launchpad is here. We have your posts to IRC mailing list and if you dont get anywhere with it please feel free to add it to community council agenda at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda --=20 Sincerely Yours, John Vivirito https://launchpad.net/~gnomefreak https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnVivirito Linux User# 414246 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Pyper (jpyper) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 21:13:08 -0000 Message-Id: This complaint only starts flame wars on comment forums such as this. While this may not be a real bug in the software, it is a bug in society. Microsoft has a very powerful armada of marketing genuises who push their products out the the consumers almost blindly. The Ubuntu staff and community doesn't have this paid crew to do the same. My views about Ubuntu and Linux in general is that my computer is liberated from costly and licensed lockdown. I am free to install Ubuntu and any other Linux distro on any number of systems without the worries of knowing that my software is either pirated or unsupported. Most Linux software is open source. That meaning, if I don't like something, I can change the code and submit patches to the author to help make it better or fork the original source and make my own program as long as I give a lead to the original source where my program came from. Also, the community is usually very helpful and can tell you how to fix problems you may be having. If you have a problem with something, and it's legit, file a bug against the software and hopefully it will be resolved soon. On IRC, your complaint should be held in #ubuntu-offtopic since your issue you bring up doesn't pertain to the functionality of Ubuntu itself. There are also sections on http://ubuntuforums.org/ as well for stuff like this. I'm sorry if I came off sounding like a bad person here, but this is not the place for dealing with IRC issues. I would like to help you, but you really should present yourself in a bit of a more professional manner. John Pyper BaD_CrC & BaD-Laptop on Freenode On 6/7/08, Shlomi Fish wrote: > May my soul die with Philistines! > > This bug I filed - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/237852 - was > closed on the grounds that it wasn't a software bug with Ubuntu. > However, it pointed out a real issue in the Ubuntu community. This bug > is not a software bug, either, and it's not real: you don't see a bug on > the Mozilla bug-tracker saying that some people are still using Internet > Explorer, or on the KDE bug-tracker that some people are still using > GNOME, etc. > > So I demand this bug to be closed too. Or else my other bug should be > open. > > See also http://community.livejournal.com/shlomif_tech/11379.html > > Regards, > > Shlomi Fish > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: yamfox (yamfox) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 18:50:42 -0000 Message-Id: <20080611185042.15218.56356.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> In the US this is about to change. The US department of Education wants all educational facilities switched over to Edubuntu by 2010. In my school, we've already started using Open Office and Firefox to prepare us for the switch. When I heard this on NPR (National Public Radio), I was completely overjoyed with the feeling of accomplishment. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: soumyajit (iamwhatiam-soumyajit) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:59:29 -0000 Message-Id: <20080611205929.16448.18631.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> that's a great news. in india the situation is not about to change soon as most people use pirat= ed copy of windows and microsoft doesn't want to be very strict about it a= s being strict will lead to massive switchover from windows to linux.. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jonathan Jesse (jjesse) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 16:54:39 -0000 Message-Id: yamfox, can you please provide a link to the us department of education statement you make? Thanks, Jonathan --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Sam Dodrill (shadow-h511) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 15:32:35 -0000 Message-Id: <20080616153236.19188.58210.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> as of intrepid, I don't think that there will be much debate but you have got to see that we are the rebels fighting against the empire my two cents --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Sam Dodrill (shadow-h511) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 15:33:02 -0000 Message-Id: <20080616153302.21283.18865.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> as of intrepid, I don't think that there will be much debate but you have got to see that we are the rebels fighting against the empire through the fire and the flames, we carry on my two cents --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mikems (mike-guy59) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 17:25:07 -0000 Message-Id: <20080616172508.21283.65702.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I think the next market Linux will seep into is the power user market. This market is filled with people from the technological press and needs special care in that case. These are the people who review free software. They will be fairly critical (as they are with anything proprietary). When they are critical, people listen. We know this from how Windows Vista is doing so far. Vista is not a good upgrade from XP, but much of the commentary on Vista has been a result of average users exaggerating what these power users have said. Average users trust power users, when technology concerned, and thus, average users defend Windows, MacOS, or Linux, based on what technology publications have said. Then others listen to these average users, and lack the knowledge of the bigger picture. I am not trying to compare Linux to Vista, or Free Software to Proprietary, I am saying that Linux is going to need to grind its teeth (do penguins have teeth? :D), and to a good extent, tend to the criticisms of power users, to ensure they do not give Linux (and specifically Ubuntu), a bad reputation. They are not going to go easy on Linux, they are not meant to be that forgiving. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Eric Kuzmenko (gralco) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:22:36 -0000 Message-Id: <20080626082237.25152.16897.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> I love everyone in Launchpad, thank you for living. Have an amazing day =3D). When ever this bug is fixed there should be a huge flash hug! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tim Johnson (tuxim-deactivatedaccount) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 13:40:28 -0000 Message-Id: <20080630134028.14161.35260.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> 1. Create an specification for applications (binary, packet format) 2. Create implementations for all popular operating systems 3. Software developer will use it 4. Users will choose their operating system independent of their software You'll see that is the only good way to fix this bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: apinunt (apinunt) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:44:18 -0000 Message-Id: <20080708144418.15715.81871.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> If Linux, Ubuntu in particular wishes to make a dent in MS's market share a greater emphasis needs to be placed on providing a better and more congenial support base. Too much variation exists in the system hardware and it is extremely difficult for first time users to get all features, often important ones, to work properly if at all. One can spend a lifetime googling, reading help forums, and asking questions on IRC channels, often accumulating more and even more difficult to resolve problems when the desire to help exceeds the ability. There needs to be a source of knowledgable help one can access for assistance in getting the primary features of their computer to function without having to weed through chats, and questions related to advanced features. If Ubuntu could make the process of getting a new users installation up and working quickly and easily, fewer would give up and just reload WinXP. It took me nearly a year to help a friend to get his wireless to work under Ubuntu and had I not helped he would now be another WinXP user. He still has problems but has learned to live with them. It should not take months or a year to resolve problems that are possible to resolve with the proper knowledge. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 15:33:58 -0000 Message-Id: <20080708153358.15792.65494.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Greetings from .CZ I believe the ultimate solution for this bug is hidden in this article (http://limulus.wordpress.com/2007/08/13/2010-the-year-of-the-linux- desktop). The history teaches us that Windows didn't win "the desktop wars" because it was the best available choice at the time... on the contrary - it actually survived despite the fact it was at least one of the worst solutions just because Microsoft was "somehow" able to make hardware vendors bundle Windows instead of competing alternatives. According to this fact, all we need to do in order to get rid of Microsoft = once and for all is cutting their connections with hardware vendors because= as I have already mentioned, they could never make it to where they are to= day if it wasn't for their support - as Mark noted in the very beginning of= this debate, bundling Windows with the majority of new computers (most not= ably laptops) and therefore denying ICT users' the right to freely choose t= heir OS is probably the the fundamental cause of all this mess. Once the users have absolute freedom to buy their desired hardware without = being tied to any particular system, we're probably gonna walk all over Mic= rosoft in no time, even though less technically skilled people (and those t= oo lazy to learn anything new) who got used to work with computers in certa= in way (which is making them literally addicted to current state of things = and afraid of any change) will still choose to pay for Windows. That's why i suggest we should do our best to make bundling illegal by some international treaty, so starting and/or supporting any ongoing effort to achieve this goal in your countries would perfectly serve this purpose (I got the idea because I heard something about European Union - which has recently been charging Microsoft pretty painful fines - discussing to ban selling new computers with pre-installed OS; it's actually funny how little effort was needed to Google the thread discussing this right on our own forums: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=3D558841). Hope this helps our cause and thank you for all the blood, sweat and tears you're pouring into liberating the ICT world from shitware (by the way, the "blood, sweat and tears" cliche reminds me of this article: http://www.bbspot.com/News/2001/06/gates.html; check it out, I believe it's gonna cheer you up big time). --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: jawahar (ijawahar) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 15:41:45 -0000 Message-Id: <20080708154145.20354.7112.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Here is the strategy on how Microsoft captured Lotus market share. http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000052.html As of today Cell Phones and ATM (Automatic Teller Machines) are very EASY f= or a layman to use when compared to Windows. Hence I'd suggest Ubuntu to follow the USABILITY principles for ATMs and Ce= ll Phones to capture the Windows market share. Cheers, ijawahar@gmail.com --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Robin Winslow (nottrobin) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 15:53:47 -0000 Message-Id: <5b75ef30807080853x56c7d4afhc1a17daa8407984e@mail.gmail.com> I agree that Microsoft does have an unfair advantage in this sense, but anyone who is at all tech-savvy can uninstall windows and replace it with whatever they like. You make the assumption that given the choice, people would choose Linux and probably Ubuntu 9 times out of 10. I don't think this is at all the case. Everyone has a go at Microsoft for every little thing that's wrong with their operating system (and there are a lot) but the fact remains that many people genuinely *choose* to use it. I consider myself to be an extremely tech-savvy user. I am a computer science graduate and have been a developer for 3 years, I am very comfortable with using Unix, but I uninstalled Hardy just a few months after installing it because I found it had just too many bugs to cope with. And I have ended up using Vista. I know, I know it has a worse security model, it's stupidly resource heavy, and shamelessly subscribes to DRM, and believe me I'm a principled guy, but at the end of the day it's still so much nicer to use than Ubuntu! Trust me, I really believe in open source. I hate what Microsoft has made the software world into, and I feel that all software should be community-based to help speed the development of all software. But despite this I still don't feel there is actually an open-source operating system good enough for me to use at the moment. Sure, take away any unfair advantage of Microsoft's that you can, but at the end of the day Ubuntu, above all, needs to be easy to use. That is what will win the war. Robin. 2008/7/8 =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB : > Greetings from .CZ > > I believe the ultimate solution for this bug is hidden in this article > (http://limulus.wordpress.com/2007/08/13/2010-the-year-of-the-linux- > desktop). > > The history teaches us that Windows didn't win "the desktop wars" > because it was the best available choice at the time... on the contrary > - it actually survived despite the fact it was at least one of the worst > solutions just because Microsoft was "somehow" able to make hardware > vendors bundle Windows instead of competing alternatives. > > According to this fact, all we need to do in order to get rid of Microsof= t once and for all is cutting their connections with hardware vendors becau= se as I have already mentioned, they could never make it to where they are = today if it wasn't for their support - as Mark noted in the very beginning = of this debate, bundling Windows with the majority of new computers (most n= otably laptops) and therefore denying ICT users' the right to freely choose= their OS is probably the the fundamental cause of all this mess. > Once the users have absolute freedom to buy their desired hardware withou= t being tied to any particular system, we're probably gonna walk all over M= icrosoft in no time, even though less technically skilled people (and those= too lazy to learn anything new) who got used to work with computers in cer= tain way (which is making them literally addicted to current state of thing= s and afraid of any change) will still choose to pay for Windows. > > That's why i suggest we should do our best to make bundling illegal by > some international treaty, so starting and/or supporting any ongoing > effort to achieve this goal in your countries would perfectly serve this > purpose (I got the idea because I heard something about European Union - > which has recently been charging Microsoft pretty painful fines - > discussing to ban selling new computers with pre-installed OS; it's > actually funny how little effort was needed to Google the thread > discussing this right on our own forums: > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=3D558841). > > Hope this helps our cause and thank you for all the blood, sweat and > tears you're pouring into liberating the ICT world from shitware (by the > way, the "blood, sweat and tears" cliche reminds me of this article: > http://www.bbspot.com/News/2001/06/gates.html; check it out, I believe > it's gonna cheer you up big time). > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Confirmed > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the= ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. Th= is bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-ins= talled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 16:50:31 -0000 Message-Id: <20080708165032.5009.10161.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Don't get me wrong - I never made the assumption you mentioned. The point is, that even if the ratio is much lower (say 2:8), the GNU/Linux user base will start growing much faster and at some point all the problems with 3rd-party support will be gone, leaving only the bugs causing problems with usability for average joe standing in our way (I guess we can all agree that majority of ICT users are nothing more than average joes knowing nothing more than just how to use their machines for basic tasks). The problem is that although (using your own words) "anyone can uninstall windows and replace it with whatever they like", they still make you pay for the bundled OS with absolute disregard to whether you actually use it or not and getting your money for unused license back is almost impossible despite the fact this right is granted to everyone by Microsoft's own EULA; you see where this is going - this way you literally pay Microsoft the ransom for being so bold to purchase a computer, giving them the money they need to survive and recover from failures like the one with ME & Vista. If this can be stopped, they wouldn't be able to withstand too many failures which make them loose money and expend their reserves... I agree GNU/Linux isn't ready for prime time quite yet, but it's already pretty suitable for user who doesn't need anything more than browse the internet, play his multimedia and use the office suite (I agree that multimedia can be hell of a pain in the ass if hardware acceleration of these things doesn't work on your machine, but that's exactly the kind of 3rd-party support I meant; the same thing understandably goes for the lack of drivers for the WinSomething kind of "hardware"). What I'm trying to tell is: all present OSes suffer from usability problems to the certain extent, so it's something we can deal with, but that is not the case of any unfair advantages Microsoft has over us... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Pyper (jpyper) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 22:04:43 -0000 Message-Id: If the average Joe would buy parts individually and build a computer instead of getting a pre-built one, we wouldn't have this "Microsoft tax" to deal with. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy a pre-built solution, but they are there for those who eight don't know much about computers or don't want to take the extra bit of effort to match up the colored wires to the back of the box. Just my 2 cents, and I want a penny back. :) John Pyper BaD_CrC on Freenode #ubuntu,#ubuntu-offtopic Kent, WA, USA On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 9:50 AM, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB wrote: > Don't get me wrong - I never made the assumption you mentioned. The > point is, that even if the ratio is much lower (say 2:8), the GNU/Linux > user base will start growing much faster and at some point all the > problems with 3rd-party support will be gone, leaving only the bugs > causing problems with usability for average joe standing in our way (I > guess we can all agree that majority of ICT users are nothing more than > average joes knowing nothing more than just how to use their machines > for basic tasks). > > The problem is that although (using your own words) "anyone can > uninstall windows and replace it with whatever they like", they still > make you pay for the bundled OS with absolute disregard to whether you > actually use it or not and getting your money for unused license back is > almost impossible despite the fact this right is granted to everyone by > Microsoft's own EULA; you see where this is going - this way you > literally pay Microsoft the ransom for being so bold to purchase a > computer, giving them the money they need to survive and recover from > failures like the one with ME & Vista. If this can be stopped, they > wouldn't be able to withstand too many failures which make them loose > money and expend their reserves... > > I agree GNU/Linux isn't ready for prime time quite yet, but it's already > pretty suitable for user who doesn't need anything more than browse the > internet, play his multimedia and use the office suite (I agree that > multimedia can be hell of a pain in the ass if hardware acceleration of > these things doesn't work on your machine, but that's exactly the kind > of 3rd-party support I meant; the same thing understandably goes for the > lack of drivers for the WinSomething kind of "hardware"). > > What I'm trying to tell is: all present OSes suffer from usability > problems to the certain extent, so it's something we can deal with, but > that is not the case of any unfair advantages Microsoft has over us... > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 22:29:05 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0807081529y218a777ejf6a83fb489953624@mail.gmail.com> Note to John and others : *building a PC*. Anyone can go to ANY small computer shop, talk to a techie, and have a computer built, CHEAPER and BETTER ! Ask your techie which O/S he/she is using, if it is not Linux, get another techie. Every techie that I know that is any good, uses Linux. Most think Ubuntu is too mainstream. (who cares) For a price, they will load Linux, even Ubuntu !!!! It may cost the same as MS Windows, again, who cares ?!?! Most users only want a system that "just works". Tomorrow I'm going to a friends' house to repair a "Windows Vista" system, it has a few viruses, lots of Spybots, and is now generally slo=3Do=3Do=3DoW ! To install Ubuntu and totally configure it will take me too long. <<<< wrote: > If the average Joe would buy parts individually and build a computer > instead > of getting a pre-built one, we wouldn't have this "Microsoft tax" to deal > with. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy a pre-built solution, but they are > there for those who eight don't know much about computers or don't want to > take the extra bit of effort to match up the colored wires to the back of > the box. Just my 2 cents, and I want a penny back. :) > > John Pyper > BaD_CrC on Freenode #ubuntu,#ubuntu-offtopic > Kent, WA, USA > > On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 9:50 AM, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB wrot= e: > > > Don't get me wrong - I never made the assumption you mentioned. The > > point is, that even if the ratio is much lower (say 2:8), the GNU/Linux > > user base will start growing much faster and at some point all the > > problems with 3rd-party support will be gone, leaving only the bugs > > causing problems with usability for average joe standing in our way (I > > guess we can all agree that majority of ICT users are nothing more than > > average joes knowing nothing more than just how to use their machines > > for basic tasks). > > > > The problem is that although (using your own words) "anyone can > > uninstall windows and replace it with whatever they like", they still > > make you pay for the bundled OS with absolute disregard to whether you > > actually use it or not and getting your money for unused license back is > > almost impossible despite the fact this right is granted to everyone by > > Microsoft's own EULA; you see where this is going - this way you > > literally pay Microsoft the ransom for being so bold to purchase a > > computer, giving them the money they need to survive and recover from > > failures like the one with ME & Vista. If this can be stopped, they > > wouldn't be able to withstand too many failures which make them loose > > money and expend their reserves... > > > > I agree GNU/Linux isn't ready for prime time quite yet, but it's already > > pretty suitable for user who doesn't need anything more than browse the > > internet, play his multimedia and use the office suite (I agree that > > multimedia can be hell of a pain in the ass if hardware acceleration of > > these things doesn't work on your machine, but that's exactly the kind > > of 3rd-party support I meant; the same thing understandably goes for the > > lack of drivers for the WinSomething kind of "hardware"). > > > > What I'm trying to tell is: all present OSes suffer from usability > > problems to the certain extent, so it's something we can deal with, but > > that is not the case of any unfair advantages Microsoft has over us... > > > > -- > > Microsoft has a majority market share > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > > of the bug. > > > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Confirmed > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --=20 http://picasaweb.google.com/allenggraham/Mazatlan --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 22:59:43 -0000 Message-Id: <20080708225943.15792.87942.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> As I said, this issue is most notable with laptops - would you guys really be comfortable with paying more for the same or inferior hardware to get the laptop clean or would you rather buy a better one with bundled Windows and then take a long shot on trying to get your money back for unused license? All I'm saying is that one of the most important steps towards our victory over Microsoft's monopoly is to deny them the luxury of having almost every pre-built computer sold with pre-installed Windows without even having to ask it's user if that's really what he wants knowing the hardware vendor will do his best to avoid returning the money for unused license regardless of Microsoft's own EULA... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: ordcestus (ordcestus) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 02:05:50 -0000 Message-Id: <20080709020550.14859.72538.malone@palladium.canonical.com> The big problem i have with the linux community is constant "windows whinin= g". This energy should instead be spent on windows compatibilty software li= ke WINE and distributing linux yourself. I provide free linux support to my= city to whoever asks and i also spend time burning large numbers of Ubuntu= , Kubuntu and Edubuntu CD's. Spend time doing this and give them to local c= omputer stores to sell. I promise they'll put them on thier shelves and i a= lso spend time setting up new computers with Linux for these computer store= s. You cannot win if you don't work.=20 Ease of use is what will win this for us. Windows has that and Ubuntu has l= ess. Standard Ubuntu won't play a DVD the moment you put it in and installi= ng software that isn't inside the basic Add/Remove programs can be a pain. = Windows has autorun where you put the disk in and it walks you through an i= nstallation very easy. I'm not a devoloper nor do i know how to use code very well but those of yo= u who do should build software based more on ease of use than power and ext= ras.=20 "Work don't Whine" that should be Ubuntu's motto --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 06:28:19 -0000 Message-Id: <20080709062819.24756.12952.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Ordcestus, you get that right and I really appreciate all your hard work. I= wished I had the resources to do as much as you're doing right now but bel= ieve me I'm definitely not "the user who sits on his hands warming them with his own exhaust while everybody else does the work". The problem is you don't seem to get what I mean - doing our best distribut= ing GNU/Linux even using our entire user base is nothing to compared to how= much of their shit Microsoft is able to get to people every day the way I'= m talking about without even trying. I think calling to arms to make these practices stop as soon as possible is= definitely not something to be thought of as "Windows whining" in any way. Although many of us do whatever they can, convincing people to switch becom= es increasingly difficult the more they get addicted to Windows and seeing = the results of all my efforts falling far short to Microsoft's distribution= machinery, I really don't think that despite all our massive grassroots ac= tivity (or "guerila warfare" if you wish) can't really make any significant= difference in the long run. Think of it this way - taking this unfair advantages from them right now will definitely save us much work in the future because if Microsoft keeps constantly pumping Windows into every pre-built computer out there (especially with the increasing market share for laptops which are where the problem is most obvious), we will soon find ourselves in the situation when we have no audience interested in our "now average joe- proof" system. And finally, all the user friendliness as you see it is caused by patent restrictions (I think this is the case of the DVD playback you mentioned and unfortunately for us it's something we can't help) and unlimited 3rd party support which we'll never get unless there's enough of us, so again - trying to stop this machinery is in our best interest and should be a priority. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: jawahar (ijawahar) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 07:49:02 -0000 Message-Id: <20080709074902.24756.66698.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> @Ordcestus I am writing from India. I'd like to provide 24x7 free real-time Ubuntu support through GTalk gadge= t=20 http://www.google.com/talk/ Would you like to join me? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: barbed_saber (harryallington) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 09:17:58 -0000 Message-Id: <20080709091758.20306.70054.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Improving in Adelaide (Southern Land down under) My local computer store still sells windows vista primarily, but they do ha= ve ubuntu 6.06 cd's hidden away in a corner. I will tell you when they get a spot in the middle of the counter. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 09:26:21 -0000 Message-Id: <20080709092622.20354.30156.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> John wrote: "all we need to do in order to get rid of Microsoft once and for all is cutting their connections with hardware vendors [...] bundling Windows with the majority of new computers (most notably laptops) and therefore denying ICT users' the right to freely choose their OS is probably the the fundamental cause of all this mess. [...] i suggest we should do our best to make bundling illegal" I've been thinking about this thread on-and-off all day and just a few minutes ago a possible solution struck me: What if OEMs were required to sell the software separately from the hardware, BUT still be allowed to preinstall? Specifically, think of this scenario: Major OEM makes notebooks and preloads them with Windows, but does NOT activate them. The notebook has one price and a sealed envelope with the OEM Windows Key Sticker, backup CDs, etc. has a different price. If the user wants to buy Windows for the notebook, they just pay the extra $ for the envelope too and when they first bootup the machine they enter the code and affix the sticker as per the EULA. Oh wait, what's that other stack of disks next to the Windows envelopes? Ubuntu Linux disks? What's that you say; they're FREE? And Ubuntu can do pretty much everything Windows can and a few things it can't? And if I don't like it I can come back next week and still buy the OEM Windows disks? Hmm... P.S. Glad you liked my article BTW John :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Stephan van Ingen (stephanvaningen) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 09:40:16 -0000 Message-Id: That's a conrete constructive suggestion: *organize this*! If hundreds of volunteers spend a few minutes per day being active on such a 'channel' this can be revolutionary! :-) I join, *show me how* 2008/7/9 jawahar : > @Ordcestus > > I am writing from India. > > I'd like to provide 24x7 free real-time Ubuntu support through GTalk > gadget > http://www.google.com/talk/ > > Would you like to join me? > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Robin Winslow (nottrobin) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 10:29:35 -0000 Message-Id: <5b75ef30807090329r3b8715eco50313e753595e940@mail.gmail.com> Yeah, good plan. So how do we make this happen? 2008/7/9 Stephan van Ingen : > That's a conrete constructive suggestion: *organize this*! If hundreds of > volunteers spend a few minutes per day being active on such a 'channel' t= his > can be revolutionary! :-) > I join, *show me how* > 2008/7/9 jawahar : > >> @Ordcestus >> >> I am writing from India. >> >> I'd like to provide 24x7 free real-time Ubuntu support through GTalk >> gadget >> http://www.google.com/talk/ >> >> Would you like to join me? >> >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber >> of the bug. >> > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Confirmed > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the= ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. Th= is bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-ins= talled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: jawahar (ijawahar) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 11:11:58 -0000 Message-Id: <20080709111159.14936.73049.malone@palladium.canonical.com> @Stephan I have created a common login at gmail.com so that we can solicit Ubuntu su= pport queries and solve them in real-time using http://talkgadget.google.com/talkgadget/popout Username : im.ubuntu Password : iamubuntu Please share this with your friends, family and well wishers. "The best way to escape from a problem is to solve it." --Alan Saporta --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 11:37:24 -0000 Message-Id: <20080709113724.14936.89353.malone@palladium.canonical.com> 2 Conrad: I just posted something like this on that thread on our forums while voting= "sort of...". When I was discussing the thing with one of my "Windows fell= as", he said hi likes the idea and suggested something practically the same= approach, so nobody would probably object against this since everyone woul= d have a chance to try GNU/Linux without any risks and return for the OPTIO= NAL (this part is the most important thing from all I have said - BUNDLING = ANYTHING WITH PRE-BUILT COMPUTERS SHOULD ALWAYS BE NOTHING MORE THAN JUST O= NE OF THE OPTIONS, LEAVING IT'S USER TO BE THE ONE TO DECIDE WHAT'S IT GONN= A BE!) Windows license if he finds the alternatives don't suit his needs. By the way - I don't have any personal experience with these practices, but= pre-installing probably means something similar to the first phase of Wind= ows XP installation procedure when the installer lets you create the partit= ions and then copies itself to the installation one, since the second phase= starts with accepting the EULA, which is a formal agreement between you an= d Microsoft, so the hardware vendor doesn't have the right to express your = approval with it for you... I don't have any objections against bundling or pre-installing stuff as long as I'm free to get the same hardware without the burden of license fees for system I'm not gonna use, but which nobody is willing to sell the machine without or return the money! 2 jawahar & nottRobin: Sure thing. Starting official ubuntu jabber server with conferences like he= lpdesk-cz@ubuntu.com and letting the users know they're there with lots of = other users willing to help novices with any issues in real time could solv= e a thing or two. I'm already doing something like this by actively assisti= ng all the people I convinced to switch so consider me in. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Robin Winslow (nottrobin) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 11:50:00 -0000 Message-Id: <5b75ef30807090450w351ef319o316b192615b608bc@mail.gmail.com> John, would you mind keeping the subject as "[Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share" - so that it stays in the same email conversation within Gmail? 2008/7/9 =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB : > 2 Conrad: > I just posted something like this on that thread on our forums while voti= ng "sort of...". When I was discussing the thing with one of my "Windows fe= llas", he said hi likes the idea and suggested something practically the sa= me approach, so nobody would probably object against this since everyone wo= uld have a chance to try GNU/Linux without any risks and return for the OPT= IONAL (this part is the most important thing from all I have said - BUNDLIN= G ANYTHING WITH PRE-BUILT COMPUTERS SHOULD ALWAYS BE NOTHING MORE THAN JUST= ONE OF THE OPTIONS, LEAVING IT'S USER TO BE THE ONE TO DECIDE WHAT'S IT GO= NNA BE!) Windows license if he finds the alternatives don't suit his needs. > By the way - I don't have any personal experience with these practices, b= ut pre-installing probably means something similar to the first phase of Wi= ndows XP installation procedure when the installer lets you create the part= itions and then copies itself to the installation one, since the second pha= se starts with accepting the EULA, which is a formal agreement between you = and Microsoft, so the hardware vendor doesn't have the right to express you= r approval with it for you... > > I don't have any objections against bundling or pre-installing stuff as > long as I'm free to get the same hardware without the burden of license > fees for system I'm not gonna use, but which nobody is willing to sell > the machine without or return the money! > > 2 jawahar & nottRobin: > Sure thing. Starting official ubuntu jabber server with conferences like = helpdesk-cz@ubuntu.com and letting the users know they're there with lots o= f other users willing to help novices with any issues in real time could so= lve a thing or two. I'm already doing something like this by actively assis= ting all the people I convinced to switch so consider me in. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Confirmed > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the= ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. Th= is bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-ins= talled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Vadim Peretokin (vperetokin) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 17:14:24 -0000 Message-Id: <20080709171425.24756.81973.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> 700 comments now. Wow! Definitely shows that Launchpad can scale well on an individual bug :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Pyper (jpyper) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 18:29:24 -0000 Message-Id: @barbed_saber If you go to http://shipit.ubuntu.com/ and make a comment on your order of a few CDs, they can provide you with a little cardboard display box to hold the CDs. I got one back when 5.04 was released and I still use it to this day. I just download the ISOs of the various *buntu flavors and burn them to cheap store brand CDs and put them in the display for people to take freely. I've had lots of people come back to me and thanking me for giving them something new and interesting to play with on their computers. Many of them have switched to *buntu full time. John Pyper BaD_CrC on Freenode #ubuntu,#ubuntu-offtopic Kent, WA, USA On 7/9/08, jawahar wrote: > > @Ordcestus > > I am writing from India. > > I'd like to provide 24x7 free real-time Ubuntu support through GTalk > gadget > http://www.google.com/talk/ > > Would you like to join me? > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Pyper (jpyper) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 18:34:05 -0000 Message-Id: @jawahar I am game for building some sort of communication tool based on Jabber to hopefully get Canonical/Ubuntu behind it for basic community support. All *buntu releases come with Pidgin, which is capable of using Jabber by default. Let's see what kind of rabbits I can pull out of my hat. John Pyper BaD_CrC of Freenode #ubuntu,#ubuntu-offtopic Kent, WA, USA On 7/9/08, jawahar wrote: > > @Ordcestus > > I am writing from India. > > I'd like to provide 24x7 free real-time Ubuntu support through GTalk > gadget > http://www.google.com/talk/ > > Would you like to join me? > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Pyper (jpyper) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 18:43:34 -0000 Message-Id: @John See, if Microsoft would do something similar to what the Linux community has done by releasing their Windows product as a LiveDVD, it surely would give the end user the choice of what they can do with their computers. Sure, running any OS from CD/DVD is incredibly slow, but it gives the end user a taste of what they can expect. Yes, Microsoft does allow people to download their Windows products and give them a 15-30 trial to use it, but it nags them about registering the product. On top of that, Windows _HAS_ to be installed on the hard drive for it to be functional in their minds. If you obtain a copy of XP/Vista, you have to register/purchase it within the 15-30 day limit, or you're left with a useless computer. That's why LiveCD/DVD is the route to go to give people the choice of what they want to do with their computers. John Pyper BaD_CrC on Freenode #ubuntu,#ubuntu-offtopic Kent, WA, USA On 7/9/08, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB wrote: > > 2 Conrad: > I just posted something like this on that thread on our forums while voti= ng > "sort of...". When I was discussing the thing with one of my "Windows > fellas", he said hi likes the idea and suggested something practically the > same approach, so nobody would probably object against this since everyone > would have a chance to try GNU/Linux without any risks and return for the > OPTIONAL (this part is the most important thing from all I have said - > BUNDLING ANYTHING WITH PRE-BUILT COMPUTERS SHOULD ALWAYS BE NOTHING MORE > THAN JUST ONE OF THE OPTIONS, LEAVING IT'S USER TO BE THE ONE TO DECIDE > WHAT'S IT GONNA BE!) Windows license if he finds the alternatives don't s= uit > his needs. > By the way - I don't have any personal experience with these practices, b= ut > pre-installing probably means something similar to the first phase of > Windows XP installation procedure when the installer lets you create the > partitions and then copies itself to the installation one, since the seco= nd > phase starts with accepting the EULA, which is a formal agreement between > you and Microsoft, so the hardware vendor doesn't have the right to expre= ss > your approval with it for you... > > I don't have any objections against bundling or pre-installing stuff as > long as I'm free to get the same hardware without the burden of license > fees for system I'm not gonna use, but which nobody is willing to sell > the machine without or return the money! > > 2 jawahar & nottRobin: > Sure thing. Starting official ubuntu jabber server with conferences like > helpdesk-cz@ubuntu.com and letting the users know they're there with lots > of other users willing to help novices with any issues in real time could > solve a thing or two. I'm already doing something like this by actively > assisting all the people I convinced to switch so consider me in. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: jawahar (ijawahar) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 10:22:46 -0000 Message-Id: <20080711102246.26202.7556.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> @John Are you suggesting something similar to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilli= an_(software) for Ubuntu? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Simon Lugi (simon-lugi) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 15:07:33 -0000 Message-Id: <20080711150733.5419.53579.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> I stumbled upon this forum a few days ago and have been reading through thi= s discussion with great interest and decided to add my 5c worth. I would describe my self as a non computer geek who has started using Ubunt= u recently (4 months ago) partially out of curiosity and partially because = I felt ripped off by Microsoft. I thoroughly enjoy using Ubuntu and really = hope one day Ubuntu or any other OS will seriously challenge Windows domina= nce. However the reality is all Linux OS are still very far from becoming = serious contenders. Just because a product works, is stable and has a number of features that i= ts competition does not have, does not mean it will be successful. It takes= a lot more. Some earlier writers have pointed to the success of Firefox, h= owever there is a huge difference between a web browser and an OS. =20 Purely based on personal observations and what I pick up from literature it= really looks like Linux OS's are designed for computer geeks and people li= ke me who like to fiddle. That is the market segment that Linux caters for,= which at best will probably never exceed 10% of the global market. There a= re dozens of other market segments each with their own needs. Some of the b= iggest market segments are gaming and multimedia which can be further broke= n down into video and audio.=20 What Microsoft has managed to do over the years is to make Windows so prevalent in the market, that the majority of users these day probably cannot even distinguish between the OS and the applications they use (my teenage sons certainly couldn't until I introduced them to Ubuntu). Even the people that I have spoken to in the IT industry could not be bothered learning about other OS, because there is no reason. The point I am trying to make is if Ubuntu's intention is to become a serious market player the development really has to be planned and managed as a business with some very significant financial investment. The plan needs to start with some clear goals and objectives. Then there needs to be marketing plans. Someone as successful as Mark Shuttleworth will no doubt be familiar with the 4P's of the marketing mix. At this stage Ubuntu only has one P in place and that is Price. (its free). The other 3P's, Product, Place and People are not ready for the global market. I am sure you all get the picture.=20 Who's game to start on this new venture ?? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:06:32 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0807110906w487b863aj9536c7064e6537bc@mail.gmail.com> Wow !!!! rarely have I read comments as out of touch as those made by Simon Lugi. He is to be forgiven, as a recent convert to Linux / Ubuntu he can not be expected to know the history. First "Linux" is not a company, and Ubuntu is a product developed by many hands, mostly as "free" input. Marketing is Microsofts' specialty, NOT programming. MS spends perhaps $1billion USD annually to promote products. The company Canonical, spends something, (see: Support Services | Canonical) on marketing, and please keep in mind that Canonical/Ubuntu is only ONE of the Linux companies, See : Red Hat, SuSe, Mandriva, OR: DistroWatch.com: Put the fun back into computing. Use Linux, BSD. But Simon is, importantly, a convert ! Perhaps he would describe me as a "GEEK" (I'm not) 50 years dealing with computers (yes fifty). Extensive background relating to various systems. usually have 5 working systems on hand. using Linux for 7-8 years. To Simon: I have set up Ubuntu systems for people, that work very well, and tell them "use, but don't touch". Think Cyber-cafe. Linux was designed for* anyone*. Microsoft Windows was designed to create profit. The Linx community is NOT competing with Microsoft nor Apple. *Monetary profit is NOT the goal.* Serious player ??? An issue to be addressed. But the truth ?? If you will accept it, Microsoft Corp., is on a self-destruct path. Some proof starts here :GROKLAW Simon, Ubuntu is "FREE", but it comes with a price tag, namely do your own thinking, choose your own path. How many decisions did you have to make using UBUNTU ? In truth there are too many !. Look at "Synaptic Package manager". Welcome to Ubuntu, a free system that will heavily tax you. perhaps "Ira Levin"author of: "This Perfect Day" saw this coming. regards, Allen (allengg on the forums) On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 11:07 AM, Simon Lugi wrote: > I stumbled upon this forum a few days ago and have been reading through > this discussion with great interest and decided to add my 5c worth. > I would describe my self as a non computer geek who has started using > Ubuntu recently (4 months ago) partially out of curiosity and partially > because I felt ripped off by Microsoft. I thoroughly enjoy using Ubuntu a= nd > really hope one day Ubuntu or any other OS will seriously challenge Windo= ws > dominance. However the reality is all Linux OS are still very far from > becoming serious contenders. > > Just because a product works, is stable and has a number of features that > its competition does not have, does not mean it will be successful. It ta= kes > a lot more. Some earlier writers have pointed to the success of Firefox, > however there is a huge difference between a web browser and an OS. > Purely based on personal observations and what I pick up from literature = it > really looks like Linux OS's are designed for computer geeks and people l= ike > me who like to fiddle. That is the market segment that Linux caters for, > which at best will probably never exceed 10% of the global market. There = are > dozens of other market segments each with their own needs. Some of the > biggest market segments are gaming and multimedia which can be further > broken down into video and audio. > > What Microsoft has managed to do over the years is to make Windows so > prevalent in the market, that the majority of users these day probably > cannot even distinguish between the OS and the applications they use (my > teenage sons certainly couldn't until I introduced them to Ubuntu). Even > the people that I have spoken to in the IT industry could not be > bothered learning about other OS, because there is no reason. > > The point I am trying to make is if Ubuntu's intention is to become a > serious market player the development really has to be planned and > managed as a business with some very significant financial investment. > The plan needs to start with some clear goals and objectives. Then there > needs to be marketing plans. Someone as successful as Mark Shuttleworth > will no doubt be familiar with the 4P's of the marketing mix. At this > stage Ubuntu only has one P in place and that is Price. (its free). The > other 3P's, Product, Place and People are not ready for the global > market. > > I am sure you all get the picture. > Who's game to start on this new venture ?? > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Confirmed > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --=20 http://picasaweb.google.com/allenggraham/Mazatlan --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 22:09:49 -0000 Message-Id: <20080711220949.5341.7213.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> *Patch Submission* One of the biggest advantages Microsoft has had is the installed user base. People had XP, liked XP and understood XP. It is hard to compete with that, and now that Microsoft is having to compete with XP it is having major issues. But remember that Microsoft is a marketing company first, so we should learn from them. In an article on The Register http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/08/vista_lies_fightback/ there was a reference to an HCL for Vista. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/ It is easy to navigate and very well done. But why can't we do it better? With a Canonical sponsored site, tied into Launchpad log ins, hardware can be added by many people along with work-arounds for bad hardware. Software can also be listed with native ports, FOSS replacements or WINE compatibility. Best yet, with the FOSS community contributing, is will be more complete than Microsoft could ever do, and work to shame some hardware manufactures. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Robin Winslow (nottrobin) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 23:04:51 -0000 Message-Id: <5b75ef30807111604q2ef5ef2dh7a9a9d79321210a4@mail.gmail.com> The most obvious advantage of open source software is that we can make use of all sorts of community networks and products and build on them for free. Without having to jump through any proprietary hoops. We can build on open standards and the experience of millions, which is all open and freely available. Therefore we *should* be able to do just about anything better than Microsoft can when they're just building on their own faulty software, including create a kick-ass hardware compatibility list Given the same amount of time and man-power. Unfortunately that last point has always been the problem hasn't it? Microsoft presumably has thousands of developers to work on any project it wants, 7.5 hours a day, 5 days a week. We're never going to have that. I'm not sure what my point is. Maybe that we need to build up our developer base? We could shift advertising in that direction - show people how easy it is to develop for Ubuntu, to get involved with the community - and somehow make it easier to do so? I think there are loads of people out there who are perfectly willing to subscribe to *nix boards, comment on mailing lists like this, and bitch about Microsoft, but never even considered that they could help in a more real way. Either because they thought it was so elite as to be beyond them, or because they think it would take up too much time. I'm one of those people myself. Robin. 2008/7/11 houstonbofh : > *Patch Submission* > > One of the biggest advantages Microsoft has had is the installed user > base. People had XP, liked XP and understood XP. It is hard to compete > with that, and now that Microsoft is having to compete with XP it is > having major issues. But remember that Microsoft is a marketing company > first, so we should learn from them. > > In an article on The Register > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/08/vista_lies_fightback/ there was > a reference to an HCL for Vista. > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/ It is easy to navigate > and very well done. But why can't we do it better? With a Canonical > sponsored site, tied into Launchpad log ins, hardware can be added by > many people along with work-arounds for bad hardware. Software can also > be listed with native ports, FOSS replacements or WINE compatibility. > > Best yet, with the FOSS community contributing, is will be more complete > than Microsoft could ever do, and work to shame some hardware > manufactures. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Confirmed > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the= ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. Th= is bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-ins= talled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Vadim Peretokin (vperetokin) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 00:28:18 -0000 Message-Id: <6995ca080807111728o4697a5d7kce5b53bce0777156@mail.gmail.com> Getting more commercial companies involved would be a key solution. Microsoft, outside of it's own company, has millions of developers who are making products for their platform :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Simon Lugi (simon-lugi) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 03:49:03 -0000 Message-Id: <20080712034903.10274.36361.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Allen Thanks for your gracious comments and I apologise if my earlier comments of= fended you and anyone else. They were not meant that way. I also apolgise = for writing such a poorly constructed message. Judging from your comments t= he message I was trying to get over was quite obviously not clear.=20 Thanks again for your comments I have taken them on board. It is clear I am= way out of my depth here so will spare you all further useless dialog. Simon --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Robin Winslow (nottrobin) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:17:41 -0000 Message-Id: <5b75ef30807120417pa8472c3y3e1b8c77f807c805@mail.gmail.com> @Vadim Peretokin You mean get companies to write proprietary software for Linux? (Like how ID software made Quake for Linux). That's going to be controversial... More below: @ Simon Lugi Don't be put off by Allen. He's obviously just got offended by something you said. Maybe cos you called him a geek (which we clearly all are). I don't think your comments were out of touch - and telling anyone their comments are out of touch is entirely counter-productive with what we're trying to do here - which should be to get as many people's honest opinions and ideas as possible. You do make some very good points (while I don't entirely understand the four Ps). You are entirely right that most people (technology enthusiasts aside) see computers as a tool to solve whatever their personal or company's problems are, and so we are going to need to show that Ubuntu is a viable solution and user-friendly for people working in all different sectors. You can argue that people don't switch cos they haven't heard of Linux. And that might apply to some. But I know loads of people, all of whom I have tried to persuade to use Ubuntu - and they ask whether it can do what they want it to: - will it run all my hardware? - mostly. But probably with a bit of effort on your part - does it have any bugs? - unfortunately yes. But if you put in the effort you can work around most of them - can I play games? - a few - but none of the cutting edge ones. This is not a particularly attractive prospect to them. Gaming is a huge area that Linux has never been that strong in - and, I think, a massive reason why people don't want to switch (this certainly applies to most of my housemates). You can argue that this is just because software houses don't bother to write games for Linux, and if we had a larger market share they would. But there's also the issue that (from what I've heard - correct me if I'm wrong) DirectX is vastly superior to OpenGL - one of the few good things Microsoft has actually produced. So maybe if we did get more software houses on board with Linux, they would not only create games for us, but hopefully use their expertise to improve OpenGL and make it more competitive. Sorry Simon, I got off topic slightly. The point is, I agree with you. We need to very deliberately get a foot in the door in as many different sectors as possible. However, it would be more useful if you could think of some plausible ways in which we could do this. Robin. 2008/7/12 Simon Lugi : > Allen > Thanks for your gracious comments and I apologise if my earlier comments = offended you and anyone else. They were not meant that way. I also apolgis= e for writing such a poorly constructed message. Judging from your comments= the message I was trying to get over was quite obviously not clear. > Thanks again for your comments I have taken them on board. It is clear I = am way out of my depth here so will spare you all further useless dialog. > > Simon > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Confirmed > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the= ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. Th= is bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-ins= talled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: ^rooker (rooker) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:59:58 -0000 Message-Id: <20080712115958.21872.31454.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Education & Government? I've noticed that the way people are currently "educated" regarding compute= rs leads to a very narrow-sighted, almost 99% Windows-only way of thinking. This applies to schools, universities and adult evening-courses. In an Austrian school in "Krems", they've adapted an existing live-distro t= o perfectly fit the needs of an average school environment: http://www.bg-kremszeile.ac.at/homepagenew/index.php (sorry, German only) Interestingly, the pupils are not the ones complaining - it's the teachers. And mostly those of other schools. From my experience, I'd say they are afraid. Most teachers nowadays are not good with computers and they will literally hang you if you modify *anything* on a system they're used to work with. They never understood the applications, they've learned things the "muscle-memory-mouse-way". Why are they so afraid? Because they don't have anyone helping them, and often the math or physics teacher is the admin - and thus stressed by a double-workload. So what will happen? Kids that could grow up open minded only see Windows around them (and a few= Apples). As soon as they start working, they will use the tools they've be= en taught. They will install the same applications at home (usually illegal= copies), suggest them to friends, support them, etc... Getting FOSS into schools would provide a better IT future, because kids co= uld actually learn something. Currently, they're only taught to become end-= users. ...and that would also bring more developers to FOSS, because clever pupils= have a lot of spare time. : ) Now there are several approaches for improving this situation. The ones tha= t could immediately be tried out are some bottom-up ideas: - Convert your old school? Most of use *are* geeks. This usually means we were also good at school, an= d thus we often have a good connection to our old teachers (at least they p= retend to be friendly). What about talking to them, asking them why they're= not using FOSS - and where we could help them. - Talk to parents. If you have kids yourself, you can talk from parent to parent and make them= see what harm the current educational system will cause their children, by= denying them access to valuable technology know how. etc...=20 There are several more ways, but I don't want to flood you with a wall-o-te= xt. : ) ^Rooker --- The 2nd thing are governmental institutions. I'll wait for replies on my fi= rst post before elaborating that. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Robin Winslow (nottrobin) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 12:41:30 -0000 Message-Id: <5b75ef30807120541n5afce949wfc3a614e2dbe3ce3@mail.gmail.com> I don't think education is particularly the issue. Windows is no more ubiquitous in schools and universities than it is in every other area. In my first IT class I was taught on an Acorn, but before that I had learned to use Windows because that is what my dad had on all our computers. Then I went to University where us computer science students (a still-growing discipline, incidentally) were very much encouraged to use Unix and Linux, even if the rest of the university's workstations ran Windows. So I would say education, certainly in England, is making an effort to not automatically subscribe to Windows *despite* its overwhelming ubiquity. Not all that much of an effort, but still, it's not the biggest problem. Also I don't think it's fair for you to criticise the teachers. You blatantly hear the teachers complaining more than the students just because they have more voice than the students do: they are adults, people will listen to them, they have publications etc. And you seem to be suggesting that their complains aren't valid just because they're not geeks! If slightly less computer literate people have difficulty using Linux this is the fault of Linux, not them - we should strive to make it as usable as possible by everyone, no matter their educational background. Robin. 2008/7/12 ^rooker : > Education & Government? > > I've noticed that the way people are currently "educated" regarding compu= ters leads to a very narrow-sighted, almost 99% Windows-only way of thinkin= g. > This applies to schools, universities and adult evening-courses. > > In an Austrian school in "Krems", they've adapted an existing live-distro= to perfectly fit the needs of an average school environment: > http://www.bg-kremszeile.ac.at/homepagenew/index.php > (sorry, German only) > > Interestingly, the pupils are not the ones complaining - it's the > teachers. And mostly those of other schools. From my experience, I'd say > they are afraid. Most teachers nowadays are not good with computers and > they will literally hang you if you modify *anything* on a system > they're used to work with. They never understood the applications, > they've learned things the "muscle-memory-mouse-way". > > Why are they so afraid? Because they don't have anyone helping them, and > often the math or physics teacher is the admin - and thus stressed by a > double-workload. > > So what will happen? > Kids that could grow up open minded only see Windows around them (and a f= ew Apples). As soon as they start working, they will use the tools they've = been taught. They will install the same applications at home (usually illeg= al copies), suggest them to friends, support them, etc... > > Getting FOSS into schools would provide a better IT future, because kids = could actually learn something. Currently, they're only taught to become en= d-users. > ...and that would also bring more developers to FOSS, because clever pupi= ls have a lot of spare time. : ) > > > Now there are several approaches for improving this situation. The ones t= hat could immediately be tried out are some bottom-up ideas: > - Convert your old school? > Most of use *are* geeks. This usually means we were also good at school, = and thus we often have a good connection to our old teachers (at least they= pretend to be friendly). What about talking to them, asking them why they'= re not using FOSS - and where we could help them. > > - Talk to parents. > If you have kids yourself, you can talk from parent to parent and make th= em see what harm the current educational system will cause their children, = by denying them access to valuable technology know how. etc... > > > There are several more ways, but I don't want to flood you with a wall-o-= text. : ) > > > ^Rooker > > --- > The 2nd thing are governmental institutions. I'll wait for replies on my = first post before elaborating that. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Confirmed > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the= ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. Th= is bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-ins= talled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Simon Lugi (simon-lugi) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 13:20:08 -0000 Message-Id: <20080712132009.5341.86177.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Thanks Robin. I wasn't planning to return to this forum but curiosity got t= he better of me.=20 Just soas people know where I am coming from, I have already stated I prett= y useless at computers and that is probably because I am not a detail perso= n. I am big picture person and as a result my strengths are in areas such a= s economics, business strategies etc.=20 The point I was trying to make was that, while the Linux community have achieved great things in localised areas in the big picture of the global market its tiny. It will be a mammoth task to dislodge Windows from their current dominant position. If it were easy Mac would have done so already. A task of this nature needs clear vision, direction and above all leadership so that the resources (people, finances, hardware software etc) all pull in the same direction. There are numerous obstacle to overcome but perhaps the biggest one is a th= ing called perception. Windows is so embedded in the psyche of such a huge = part of the market that its going to take some very clever and probably exp= ensive marketing to break this down. When I talk of marketing I refer to th= e whole package which I alluded to earlier when I referred to the 4 P's.=20 The Price has to be right The Product has to be right. ie it has to be able to do the things its comp= etition can do, it has to be visually appealing, it has to be packaged prop= erly, the whole works. The People supporting, selling, developing etc have to be both available an= d suitably skilled to meet the markets expectations. Place generally refers to the distribution network which is a subject that = would require a whole book to explain.=20 I could ramble on but I think the real question that everyone is seeking an= answer to is what should we do next. I believe that the starting point is= to get a group of very smart people together (that counts me out) to form = a core leadership team. This groups first task will be to conduct a study a= nd gain a thorough understanding of the current market environment (ie. kno= w your enemy) and develop a plan or strategy that will focus the Linux com= munities energies into a single common cause. Simon --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Vadim Peretokin (vperetokin) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 13:33:24 -0000 Message-Id: <6995ca080807120633v32ed8209m9032cb2e1f1654c7@mail.gmail.com> Yes, you know, all of the companies that are making millions on writing software won't simply go away when linux comes up with an "equivalent". It's either move to linux for them or die or stick with windows. I personally would prefer to have my favourite programs to be available on linux too! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Fernando Miguel (fernandomiguel) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 13:40:14 -0000 Message-Id: <200807121440.16948.Ubuntu@bugabundo.net> Ol=C3=A1 jawahar e a todos. On Wednesday 09 July 2008 12:11:58 jawahar wrote: > I have created a common login at gmail.com so that we can solicit Ubuntu = support queries and solve them in real-time using > http://talkgadget.google.com/talkgadget/popout As a member of the Portuguese LoCoTeam, ive joined that IM Account and will provide help as I can. --=20 BUGabundo :o) (``-_-=C2=B4=C2=B4) http://Ubuntu.BUGabundo.net Linux user #443786 GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net ps. My emails tend to sound authority and aggressive. I'm sorry in advance.= I'll try to be more assertive as time goes by... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: ^rooker (rooker) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 13:46:52 -0000 Message-Id: <20080712134652.5341.2787.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Robin: Sorry for sounding rude. My critization of the teacher's reaction was related to lack of support *for* them. They have a hard time dealing with the children, and since most of them are from a non-computer generation, they're really having a hard time: no time, no budget, no support... I'd get grumpy too! Of course their complaints *are* valid. It's great to see that a lot of FOSS apps are getting more and more user friendly, but without the users being willing to work with these "new" (different) applications, it's hard to get a foot in the door. If someone *wants* to use Free Software, she/he is also willing to tolerate some effort getting into it (or working around present bugs) - and it's the exact opposite if someone feels being forced to use something (e.g. Admins just installing GNU/Linux in schools - without full consent of their colleagues) You said: "I don't think education is particularly the issue. Windows is no more ubiq= uitous in schools and universities than it is in every other area." (It might not be *the* thing to focus on, but I think it's a valid bottom-u= p strategy with a positive, long term impact) Sure, but an argument against any non-mainstream application (or OS) I hear= very, very often is: lack of know how. A lot of companies couldn't run their servers on anything else than Windows= , because they simply have noone who knows enough about alternatives (or th= eir existence). That's where education kicks in: If you've seen/worked/learned how to handl= e e.g. GNU/Linux, you can continue to do so in a company you'll work for la= ter on. Do trainings, etc... Parents argument against free software, because they *want* their kids to be skilled with mainstream apps: "Why are you teaching my kid this OpenOffice thing? It's not used in "the real world" - please teach them the "real" office, so they have a valuable skill in their CV" *ouch* Same situation on the home-desktop: No matter what problem you have with e.g. Windows, just go round the corner= to find someone who can help you.=20 I wasn't able to setup my friends' computers on GNU/Linux before I hadn't g= ained the knowledge to also support them - because there's noone around the= ir or my neighbourhood to help out. Sad, but true. So that's also a reason why "shipping computers with GNU/Linux" alone won't make amends - Without someone supporting, teaching and helping them to use their new, better OS, they could end up turning against FOSS, because their first experience was: "WTF? Where is...? Why...? setup.exe won't run! Where's Photoshop? - help! anyone? anyone...? hello?" You know what their local IT salesman/specialist will tell them: "Why aren'= t you using Windows? I could help you with Windows!" If the neighbour kid (which is very often the local IT specialist ;-) ), l= earned about GNU/Linux at school, that situation would look different. If n= ot now, then at least in a few years.=20 Maybe it's better in England, but here that's the unfortunate status quo. At university I've also "seen" *nix like OS, but they were never explained = to us. Most of my co-students had a hard time dealing with the shell - and = they were complaining, why we have to use "this complicated OS". Additional= ly, when a professor held a class, you saw PowerPoint presentation on Windo= ws. In 5 years at university I saw only *one* lecturer not using PowerPoint= . Some professors even *demanded* (!!) that you hand you work in as .doc fi= le - What happens? Students of computer science (!) hand in their diploma t= hesis as .doc file - because they've never seen Latex. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Fernando Miguel (fernandomiguel) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 13:55:05 -0000 Message-Id: <200807121455.09024.Ubuntu@bugabundo.net> Ol=C3=A1 nottRobin e a todos. On Saturday 12 July 2008 12:17:41 nottRobin wrote: > But there's also the issue that (from what I've heard - correct me if I'm= wrong) DirectX is vastly superior to OpenGL - one of the few good things M= icrosoft has actually produced. Nope, thats not true. OpenGL is much better than DX. Unfortunately it didnt begin that well, and then MSFT "force" software hous= es to use DX, because it was the best/worse solution. --=20 BUGabundo :o) (``-_-=C2=B4=C2=B4) http://Ubuntu.BUGabundo.net Linux user #443786 GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net ps. My emails tend to sound authority and aggressive. I'm sorry in advance.= I'll try to be more assertive as time goes by... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Robin Winslow (nottrobin) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 14:27:18 -0000 Message-Id: <5b75ef30807120727t186ab1f3q9e97fffcf0fbd228@mail.gmail.com> @ Rooker: Okay, point taken. If people we educated in the first place to use Linux (e.g. Ubuntu ;)) then a whole new generation of people would be more open-minded. It is a good point. However, I still feel like most people teach themselves the important computer skills. They main learn to use Microsoft Office from doing it. The point about what parents want their kids to learn is equally valid though. Pupils *should* be taught the most useful skills. But they should also be taught alternatives - the benefits of open source ideology. This is because I think the Information Technology part of the National Curriculum in most countries is quite young and inexperienced. It kinda lacks direction - doesn't yet know exactly what it should include. So the answer here would be to somehow persuade governments to put something about the benefits of open source ideology in the national curriculum. What a great idea! - how can we achieve it? Come to that, I think that the open source community could do with better representation in general. Everyone involved with it knows what it is. We know the benefits and the ideals, but other people don't. It takes a lot of commitment to find out. We must be able to find some way in which we can put it very simply to people in general, and so make people generally more aware of the benefits. @vadim: Yes, there is a huge amount of commercial software being built all the time, and it would be brilliant if they would develop it for Linux (which the more open-minded already do) - but how can you persuade them to? We need a strategy for persuading companies to develop software for a minority market. What benefits can we offer them? @simon: There are two main points I can see from what you've said: > Linux communities could do with more awareness of proper business strateg= ies > Linux communities could do with strong leadership I completely agree on both points. Although the second is absolutely resounding in my head. There are so many people fiddling around with Linux, arguing about it, touting it to their friends etc. but mostly without any real direction. With better leadership we could seriously harness this community power and do some incredible things. The only problem is: how can one gather together and lead such a diverse and spread out community? Any more thoughts? I'm thinking sometime soon I'm going to write a blog summarising all the points that have been raised here since I subscribed to the mailing list on May 5th - all about how to de-throne Microsoft as OS-king. Robin. 2008/7/12 ^rooker : > Robin: > Sorry for sounding rude. > > My critization of the teacher's reaction was related to lack of support > *for* them. They have a hard time dealing with the children, and since > most of them are from a non-computer generation, they're really having a > hard time: no time, no budget, no support... I'd get grumpy too! > > Of course their complaints *are* valid. It's great to see that a lot of > FOSS apps are getting more and more user friendly, but without the users > being willing to work with these "new" (different) applications, it's > hard to get a foot in the door. If someone *wants* to use Free Software, > she/he is also willing to tolerate some effort getting into it (or > working around present bugs) - and it's the exact opposite if someone > feels being forced to use something (e.g. Admins just installing > GNU/Linux in schools - without full consent of their colleagues) > > You said: > "I don't think education is particularly the issue. Windows is no more ub= iquitous in schools and universities than it is in every other area." > > (It might not be *the* thing to focus on, but I think it's a valid bottom= -up strategy with a positive, long term impact) > Sure, but an argument against any non-mainstream application (or OS) I he= ar very, very often is: lack of know how. > A lot of companies couldn't run their servers on anything else than Windo= ws, because they simply have noone who knows enough about alternatives (or = their existence). > That's where education kicks in: If you've seen/worked/learned how to han= dle e.g. GNU/Linux, you can continue to do so in a company you'll work for = later on. Do trainings, etc... > > Parents argument against free software, because they *want* their kids > to be skilled with mainstream apps: "Why are you teaching my kid this > OpenOffice thing? It's not used in "the real world" - please teach them > the "real" office, so they have a valuable skill in their CV" > > *ouch* > > Same situation on the home-desktop: > No matter what problem you have with e.g. Windows, just go round the corn= er to find someone who can help you. > I wasn't able to setup my friends' computers on GNU/Linux before I hadn't= gained the knowledge to also support them - because there's noone around t= heir or my neighbourhood to help out. Sad, but true. > > So that's also a reason why "shipping computers with GNU/Linux" alone > won't make amends - Without someone supporting, teaching and helping > them to use their new, better OS, they could end up turning against > FOSS, because their first experience was: "WTF? Where is...? Why...? > setup.exe won't run! Where's Photoshop? - help! anyone? anyone...? > hello?" > > You know what their local IT salesman/specialist will tell them: "Why are= n't you using Windows? I could help you with Windows!" > If the neighbour kid (which is very often the local IT specialist ;-) ),= learned about GNU/Linux at school, that situation would look different. If= not now, then at least in a few years. > > Maybe it's better in England, but here that's the unfortunate status > quo. > > > At university I've also "seen" *nix like OS, but they were never explaine= d to us. Most of my co-students had a hard time dealing with the shell - an= d they were complaining, why we have to use "this complicated OS". Addition= ally, when a professor held a class, you saw PowerPoint presentation on Win= dows. In 5 years at university I saw only *one* lecturer not using PowerPoi= nt. Some professors even *demanded* (!!) that you hand you work in as .doc = file - What happens? Students of computer science (!) hand in their diploma= thesis as .doc file - because they've never seen Latex. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Confirmed > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the= ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. Th= is bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-ins= talled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Robin Winslow (nottrobin) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 23:15:37 -0000 Message-Id: <5b75ef30807121615r14de0b43s43b185a6737fea92@mail.gmail.com> Ah. I just notice loads of graphical glitches in Open Source software. For example, if you make the text larger in FireFox it doesn't increase in size smoothly, it remains all thin and stuff up to a certain point, when it makes a jump to being bold. In internet explorer the transition seems much more smooth. I assumed this was due to the limitations in OpenGL... Obviously not. Thanks for correcting me. Incidentally, do you know of any good articles on the subjects? The comparative technical capabilities of each? Cheers, Robin. 2008/7/12 BUGabundo : > Ol=C3=A1 nottRobin e a todos. > > On Saturday 12 July 2008 12:17:41 nottRobin wrote: >> But there's also the issue that (from what I've heard - correct me if I'= m wrong) DirectX is vastly superior to OpenGL - one of the few good things = Microsoft has actually produced. > > Nope, thats not true. OpenGL is much better than DX. > Unfortunately it didnt begin that well, and then MSFT "force" software ho= uses to use DX, because it was the best/worse solution. > > -- > BUGabundo :o) > (``-_-=C2=B4=C2=B4) http://Ubuntu.BUGabundo.net > Linux user #443786 GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB > My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net > ps. My emails tend to sound authority and aggressive. I'm sorry in advanc= e. I'll try to be more assertive as time goes by... > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Confirmed > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the= ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. Th= is bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-ins= talled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: jawahar (ijawahar) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 13:59:24 -0000 Message-Id: <20080713135924.18377.979.malone@palladium.canonical.com> MS priorities has been 1. Usability 2. Features 3. Performance and Linux vendor priorities has been 1. Features 2. Performance 3. Usability --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Vadim Peretokin (vperetokin) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 14:23:25 -0000 Message-Id: <6995ca080807130723y8b83878l67ce1da8a22bdd8@mail.gmail.com> Um, Windows usability is very arguable. The start button is a brilliant example that spawns quite a few jokes and confusion. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Amir E. Aharoni (amir-aharoni) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 14:36:34 -0000 Message-Id: <97f280ea0807130736i1105e641vf1596edf78acc420@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 4:59 PM, jawahar wrote: > MS priorities has been > 1. Usability > 2. Features > 3. Performance > > and > Linux vendor priorities has been > 1. Features > 2. Performance > 3. Usability Nope: MS priorities has been 1. Making sure that Windows, Internet Explorer and Office are installed in every PC that is sold on the planet 2. Making sure that Windows, Internet Explorer and Office are installed in every PC that is sold on the planet 3. Making sure that Windows, Internet Explorer and Office are installed in every PC that is sold on the planet and Linux vendor developer priorities has been 0. Freedom 1. Features 2. Performance 3. Usability --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Vadim Peretokin (vperetokin) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 14:47:42 -0000 Message-Id: <6995ca080807130747y5f1ad78ep397d0296c17d80d1@mail.gmail.com> While they should be 1. Freedom on every computer sold on the planet --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Robin Winslow (nottrobin) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 17:10:56 -0000 Message-Id: <5b75ef30807131010y62a23738of8a5c2de5e9f3ab5@mail.gmail.com> Jawahar is absolutely right. Although this is by no means Ubuntu's only problem. @Amir - he's talking about priorities in the design of their operating system, not business strategies. The cynical "people only use windows because they are forced to" view is really starting to bug me. Very few people are actually forced to use Windows. Most people know someone capable of installing a new operating system for them, and almost certainly would if it there was genuinely a better solution for them. However, for most people, Windows does remain the best solution. Whatever you say, Windows *is* easier to use than Ubuntu. Almost everything does actually work the way people expect it to. Which is, unfortunately, not the case for Ubuntu. See HappySpaceInvader's comment: "For example, I want to be able to have Pidgin instant messenger launch at login. Can I select this in the preferences? No. Can I drag the Pidgin launcher from the menu into the sessions 'Additional Startup Items'? Unfortunately not. If I choose Add Startup Program, can I select from a nice list of applications? I can't even do that." And he's right. So Ubuntu definitely does need more focus on Usability. So many people seem to think that Windows is winning *just* because they have "unfair" advantages like being installed on every computer. But it's just not true. I have said before and I'll say again - if Ubuntu was genuinely a far superior product, people would use it, and there would be nothing Windows could do about it. Computer vendors would pre-install it instead of windows, and every slightly tech-savvy person out there would ensure that it was installed on all their friends machines. Although yes it does certainly help that Microsoft have had so many successful business strategies. Robin. 2008/7/13 Vadim Peretokin : > While they should be > > 1. Freedom on every computer sold on the planet > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Confirmed > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the= ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. Th= is bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-ins= talled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: jawahar (ijawahar) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 18:33:09 -0000 Message-Id: <20080713183309.31177.93409.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Excellent analysis Robin! One more thing to note here is OWNER ship issue. 1. Linux Kernel=20 2. X Windows 3. GNOME/KDE 4. Firefox 5. Drivers etc All these software pieces are OWNED by different individuals. Can someone tell me when was the last time they all met together in a room? I have been using Ubuntu since Drapper (5.10) days. Every time I do=20 apt-get update apt-get upgrade apt-get dist-upgrade my system would break or become instable. Just yesterday, I did apt-get update & upgrade on Hardy and I get into this= "polkituser" hell. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=3D718910&highlight=3Dpolkituser And when I suggested a way to prevent this issue at http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/10915/ they (developers) are apathetic to the idea! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Vadim Peretokin (vperetokin) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:26:05 -0000 Message-Id: <6995ca080807131226p2fc685f2je4a1a5763deef1b6@mail.gmail.com> I looked at your idea. You have no idea how much extra work will that make and how prone to breaking and arguments is that suspectible to. It's better to get rid of the problem of failed upgrades in the beginning - and to do that, help developers test ubuntu on real hardware by starting out here http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: jawahar (ijawahar) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 13:37:19 -0000 Message-Id: <20080716133720.9050.69973.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> I wish Ubuntu have Live Chat support similar to http://support.mozilla.com/= en-US/kb/Live+Chat --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Vadim Peretokin (vperetokin) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 13:51:41 -0000 Message-Id: <6995ca080807160651h2692c161h400c0b8065e346aa@mail.gmail.com> Now that is a good idea. A one on one chat, easily accessible from the website. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Robin Winslow (nottrobin) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 13:59:27 -0000 Message-Id: <5b75ef30807160659r53ef939biae8c60e7e0d6ec6d@mail.gmail.com> Surely that shouldn't be too hard? Don't we have some sort of Ubuntu support IRC channel? You must be able to write an IRC application for a website so that you can chat in the IRC chat room via the website... or something? That would be good for support. 2008/7/16 jawahar : > > I wish Ubuntu have Live Chat support similar to http://support.mozilla.co= m/en-US/kb/Live+Chat > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Confirmed > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the= ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. Th= is bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-ins= talled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Robin Winslow (nottrobin) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:05:44 -0000 Message-Id: <5b75ef30807160705l7fb86d7fuf46181ee3892837c@mail.gmail.com> Yes it is a gem. And you could then integrate it into the Ubuntu operating system. Like when a program has an error, because of failed dependencies or anything, there could be a link to say "click here for live support via ubuntu.com" or something. So, how do we get people actually working on this? I imagine you submit a feature request or some such? And then can we all vote for it? 2008/7/16 Vadim Peretokin : > Now that is a good idea. A one on one chat, easily accessible from the > website. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Confirmed > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the= ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. Th= is bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-ins= talled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Vadim Peretokin (vperetokin) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:37:13 -0000 Message-Id: <6995ca080807160737x2a9976f5i45f66ca64098ece1@mail.gmail.com> Well... if Mozilla has their client open-sourced (I hope they do), we can just take that and customize it. No need to write yet another program that does the same thing. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 09:39:12 -0000 Message-Id: <20080717093913.30684.45807.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> jawahar wrote on 2008-07-13: --- MS priorities has been 1. Usability 2. Features 3. Performance --- Just to add a note to some of the other comments about this, the #1 priority at Microsoft, really more than anything else, is profit. #2 is probably marketing and #3 vendor lock-in, both of which feed into #1. Any software priorities necessarily come after that, so reworking the above: 4. Usability 5. Features 6. Performance So security would come in at #7 or so? That sounds about right ;) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Robin Winslow (nottrobin) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 09:53:37 -0000 Message-Id: <5b75ef30807170253h68719fe0y506918423fbdab65@mail.gmail.com> Once again, I think it makes sense, for the sake of clarity, to keep these point separated into priorities in operating system design and priorities in business strategy, as they're obviosly completely separate, and the point jawahar was trying to make was about the operating system design. So: Microsoft's priorities in OS design: 1. Usability 2. Features 3. Performance And these business strategies priorities don't make sense - making money goes without saying, it's the reason for having a business strategy. Business strategy priorities: 1. Distribution contracts (vendor lock-in) 2. Marketing (there's actually surprisingly little of this) Or something. Still, I feel their operating system design strategy is far more interesting and useful to us. Robin. 2008/7/17 Conrad Knauer : > jawahar wrote on 2008-07-13: > > --- > MS priorities has been > 1. Usability > 2. Features > 3. Performance > --- > > Just to add a note to some of the other comments about this, the #1 > priority at Microsoft, really more than anything else, is profit. #2 is > probably marketing and #3 vendor lock-in, both of which feed into #1. > Any software priorities necessarily come after that, so reworking the > above: > > 4. Usability > 5. Features > 6. Performance > > So security would come in at #7 or so? That sounds about right ;) > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Confirmed > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the= ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. Th= is bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-ins= talled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Shane Fagan (shanepatrickfagan) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 12:50:30 -0000 Message-Id: <20080717125030.28387.89694.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Stop talking about microsoft's priorities. Their priorities have lead to the release of vista which we all agree is poor. What our priorities should be to forget about microsoft and release a stable and strong Ubuntu and that sounds a lot better than vista which glitches every 5 minutes. So id like to say that our focus shouldnt be on the competition it should be on Ubuntu. Shane Fagan --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 16:56:45 -0000 Message-Id: <487F79CD.1090701@hal-pc.org> shane fagan wrote: > Stop talking about microsoft's priorities. Their priorities have lead to > the release of vista which we all agree is poor. What our priorities > should be to forget about microsoft and release a stable and strong > Ubuntu and that sounds a lot better than vista which glitches every 5 > minutes. So id like to say that our focus shouldnt be on the competition > it should be on Ubuntu. It needs to be both! Microsoft actually does many things right, and we=20 should copy that. But we should also learn from the mistakes of others,=20 and not copy those mistakes. :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Pyper (jpyper) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:32:11 -0000 Message-Id: Based on what I've been seeing lately on this list, everyone always has something to SAY about Microsoft, but they don't offer any HELP to DO anything about the situation. It's turning into something similar to a political debate, but it's all talk. Anybody can sit behind a keyboard and whine about the ways they have been screwed in the past from other proprietary companies, but they don't help fix the problem. Ubuntu has the largest community of all Linux distributions. If all we do is talk, we're no better than those other companies that lock you into their product. Even if you do something minor like fixing a spelling mistake in documentation or something simple, you have provided to the community. There's so much that needs to be done as well as there's so much that people can come up with to make this the best free product in the world. It's up to you now to take the ball and run with it. Are we going to talk about the other companies and be lemmings of corporate brainwashing or are we going to something about it? John Pyper BaD_CrC/BaD-Laptop on Freenode IRC Kent, WA, USA On 7/17/08, houstonbofh wrote: > shane fagan wrote: >> Stop talking about microsoft's priorities. Their priorities have lead to >> the release of vista which we all agree is poor. What our priorities >> should be to forget about microsoft and release a stable and strong >> Ubuntu and that sounds a lot better than vista which glitches every 5 >> minutes. So id like to say that our focus shouldnt be on the competition >> it should be on Ubuntu. > > It needs to be both! Microsoft actually does many things right, and we > should copy that. But we should also learn from the mistakes of others, > and not copy those mistakes. :) > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:36:39 -0000 Message-Id: <20080717213639.30766.14709.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> nottRobin wrote: "Once again, I think it makes sense, for the sake of clarity, to keep these point separated into priorities in operating system design and priorities in business strategy, as they're obviosly completely separate" Profit as the #1 priority at Microsoft *absolutely* impacts the software they produce; it doesn't just extend to their nasty EULAs. I want to share an example I read on /. a while back: "I was on the MacIE 6 team when it got canned..." http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3D171546&cid=3D14288661 --- MacIE had one of the strangest and saddest histories I've seen, of any prod= uct. MacIE 5 was an awesome release, critically aclaimed and everything, with a good development team and a strong testing team, that included daily performance measurement. And yet, almost immediately after 5.0 was released, the MacIE team was redeployed to work on a set-top DVR box. The notion at the time was that the team would continue to do MacIE work in their spare time, since IE 5 was the leader among Mac browsers and no longer needed a full-time team. The problem with that notion was that WebTV, the team's new bosses, had no reason to actually schedule any time for real IE work. So later, when that particular set-top box got cancelled, the IE team got redployed for other WebTV work, and since this was now out of MacBU's control, nothing could really be done. 3 or 4 years went by before enough people in the Mac division wanted to resume work on IE, and when it looked like we might actually need the technology, as a base for MSN-for-Mac, the IE 6 team was formed. It got a firm OS X-only foundation, a new even more complient browser base, and then suddenly it became apparent that Apple was doing their own browser, because, well, there were lots of small clues, but the big clues was that Apple had started calling the old Mac IE team offering them jobs. By that time the Mac division had formally committed to MSN-for-Mac-OSX, so it's not like we were completely going to stop work. But a meeting was held internally, the outcome of which was that it didn't make sense to build our own browser if Apple was going to bundle one, because the marketshare and mindshare of the distant-second-place browser, on the distant-second-place platform, wasn't worth pursuing. A week later we had a meeting with high-up people at Apple, where they told us they were doing a browser. And the week after that, after confirming it with Bill Gates, who was reportedly sad but understanding of the decision, MacIE was officially shut down. MSN-for-MacOSX went ahead, and was also critically acclaimed, but once released, indications were that the number of users was about the same as the number of developers. After that, MacBU concentrated once again on the next Office release, and MacIE has been well and truly and permanently dead ever since. Over the whole sad journey, the single most surprising thing I ever discovered was from a small conversation that went: Me: "Look, if it makes sense to devote dozens of people to WinIE, then surely it makes sense to devote half a dozen to MacIE!" Higher-up: "There aren't dozens of people on WinIE. WinIE had some great people on it! We need those great people on products that make money!" Me: "Then why on earth did we pursue IE in the first place? Just so that the DOJ would sue us?" Higher-up: Some day I hope to get a proper answer on our motivation to do WinIE and MacIE in the first place. It seems to be that we were scared of not having control of the HTML standard. And indeed, now that Firefox is gaining traction, Microsoft has added more people to WinIE again. Epilogue: All of this made it a lot more easy for me to quit and go work at= Google Reminder: I may or may not be leaving some parts out for NDA reasons. --- Oh and another example; consider from a technical perspective, why didn't Microsoft use ODF for Office 2007? There's really no good reason. But from a profit perspective... Quoting Doug Mahugh, "a Senior Product Manager at Microsoft specializing in Office client interoperability and the Open XML file formats": http://www.openmalaysiablog.com/2007/09/microsoft-tech-.html --- "Office is a USD$10 billion revenue generator for the company. When ODF was= made an ISO standard, Microsoft had to react quickly as certain government= s have procurement policies which prefer ISO standards. Ecma and OASIS are = "international standards", but ISO is the international "Gold Standard". Mi= crosoft therefore had to rush this standard through. It's a simple matter o= f commercial interests!" --- Honestly, most of Microsoft's technical decisions that seem odd make perfect sense from a profit/marketing/vendor lock-in perspective. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Epson (epson-deactivatedaccount) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:17:07 -0000 Message-Id: <20080721101707.24356.69610.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> I added security to the linux part MS priorities has been 1. Making sure that Windows, Internet Explorer and Office are installed in every PC that is sold on the planet 2. Making sure that Windows, Internet Explorer and Office are installed in every PC that is sold on the planet 3. Making sure that Windows, Internet Explorer and Office are installed in every PC that is sold on the planet and Linux vendor developer priorities has been 0. Security 0. Freedom 1. Features 2. Performance 3. Usability --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: jawahar (ijawahar) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 07:54:51 -0000 Message-Id: <20080722075451.6691.91437.malone@palladium.canonical.com> A sarcastic Linux hater rant... http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: snirp (prinsroy) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 22:55:09 -0000 Message-Id: <20080722225510.20575.63724.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> This bug was reproduced effortlessly in the Netherlands. It seems to have the nasty side-effect of producing a dependency upon itself. For instance: it seems to have made nearly all CAD-software utterly dependent upon itself. By behaving in this fashion, this bug should be considered a virus. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: sydbat (sydbat) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:07:51 -0000 Message-Id: <20080723160751.6691.23372.malone@palladium.canonical.com> @jawahar Not sure if the guy is being funny or legit. I do find it ironic his "anti-Linux" rants are on Blogger (=3DGoogle=3DLinux) :p --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: davidm617617 (david3333333) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 19:51:19 -0000 Message-Id: <20080723195120.1480.41322.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I was able to reproduce this bug in Northern New Jersey, USA (mostly Bergen and Passiac Counties). The stores near me all sell Windows, with no choice over the Operating System. All non-Apple computers are sold with Vista, and at the local Best Buy store, you can get Vista removed and XP put on for $330. There is no way to even get a computer with no operating system installed at all. If they at least gave that option, I'd get it and put on Ubuntu once I got home, but instead I'm using the computer I got at a Costco with Vista on it. I put Ubuntu on it, but kept Vista on, just in case I need it and Vista's hard to reinstall. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: CrazySnowdog (crazysnowdog) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:16:45 -0000 Message-Id: <20080725211645.22772.23617.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Sudo - kill Windows --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: GoanPav (thatsnotmyname) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:51:13 -0000 Message-Id: <20080728185114.19242.40236.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Bug is rampant in Mumbai, where pirated versions of MS software are sold for the legitimate price --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Pyper (jpyper) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:22:55 -0000 Message-Id: Shouldn't that be "sudo killall -9 windows" or "sudo killall -9 `pidof windows`" or something similar? :) John Pyper Kent, WA, USA BaD_CrC, BaD-Laptop on Freenode IRC On 7/25/08, Alexbellisbrown wrote: > Sudo - kill Windows > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Sart (sart-ua) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 09:44:21 -0000 Message-Id: <20080730094421.14838.2919.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Confirmed for Ukraine. It is impossible to get a PC here without M$ crap preinstalled (unless you buy a pile of hardware and assemble the PC yourself). And it is impossible to get a refund from the vendors, even if you want to return the unnecessary installation media right after you buy a PC. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: asdf (asdf123123-deactivatedaccount-deactivatedaccount) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:09:57 -0000 Message-Id: <20080805120958.17542.88435.malone@palladium.canonical.com> I recently switched to Windows Vista on my laptop, because of the stuff not working on Linux (video codecs, dvd, flash, ati drivers, reasonable power managemen, suspend, hibernate, etc) and the crappy user experience provided by gnome. Further the desktop search (i think it's called tracker) did not work correct. Personally I would recommend to change the topic in "provide a reasonable user experience" or something like this. I also don't think that the market share of Linux on the deskop is growing. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Sart (sart-ua) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:40:26 -0000 Message-Id: <20080805124027.8032.4950.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> 2 Nils - maybe it is your fault, not Linux? Or you should try KDE instead of Gnome... Nothing personal, it just seems strange to hear that the stuff you mentioned does not work. My PC at home runs latest Ubuntu with KDE installed (I use KDE, but my little sister prefers Gnome, so I keep it just for her) - and I have all of the stuff you mentioned working well. And even better than in Windows. Even installation (of what needs to be installed) was as simple as typing apt-get install in the console... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Vadim Peretokin (vperetokin) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:53:00 -0000 Message-Id: <6995ca080808050553x6debdff6rda3ba322abb4eb44@mail.gmail.com> Lets not get into that here. It didn't work for him for whatever reason, there's no way that one thing can work for everybody. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:54:42 -0000 Message-Id: <20080805125442.17324.49006.malone@palladium.canonical.com> 2 Nils: Don't get me started. I'm sick of it when people are constantly whining abo= ut this kind of stuff. Let me explain: - codecs for certain multimedia formats are restricted by patents, so they = can't be included right away and the user must confirm it's legal to use th= em in his country. - Flash is a proprietary software which also has to be installed by user, p= robably because of it's license restrictions. - In case you expect the proprietary drivers to work as a charm, you really= should have a look at this article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_= hardware_and_FOSS#Problems_with_binary_drivers) because these guys definite= ly make quite a few hell of a valid points. and finally - if suspend, hibernation and stuff like that doesn't work properly, it's m= ost likely the fault of broken ACPI implementation, which is not Linux faul= t - it's exactly the same problem as with binary drivers and this time some= vendors don't even bother testing if their BIOS plays nice with OSes other= than Windows (in addition, M$ accepts broken ACPI and implements specific = workarounds even at the expense of unimaginable headache for their engineer= s) So wake up and smell the ashes - not everything you complain about is our f= ault and we really can't do much about it. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: asdf (asdf123123-deactivatedaccount-deactivatedaccount) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:04:32 -0000 Message-Id: <2f30da460808050604w702d0983md3705ef8befc978c@mail.gmail.com> It's not because of my inability to make things work, the only drivers, with which everything works, are the proprietary nvidia drivers. I don't want to hear "works for me" or something like this. I also forgot to add that nm 6.5 in Hardy is also quite unstable. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: asdf (asdf123123-deactivatedaccount-deactivatedaccount) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:07:06 -0000 Message-Id: <2f30da460808050607y6821cdf3h8d4828b6eb100563@mail.gmail.com> > codecs for certain multimedia formats are restricted by patents, so they can't be included right away and the user must confirm it's legal to use them in his country. i'm willing to pay some license fees > Flash is a proprietary software which also has to be installed by user, probably because of it's license restrictions. > I don't think I'll get in hell after death, because of using proprietary software (i'm an atheist anyway) I don't see any reason why Adobe should not want to collaborate with Canonical. > if suspend, hibernation and stuff like that doesn't work properly, it's most likely the fault of broken ACPI implementation, which is not Linux fault Wrong, see nvidia drivers. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: asdf (asdf123123-deactivatedaccount-deactivatedaccount) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:10:15 -0000 Message-Id: <2f30da460808050610l2ac3d18ag3f0f42602f97b21@mail.gmail.com> Suspend works on my box at home with nvidia drivers. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Amir E. Aharoni (amir-aharoni) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:29:35 -0000 Message-Id: <97f280ea0808050629m5b3be94bh447d488bd7c3a90d@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 4:07 PM, Nils wrote: >> codecs for certain multimedia formats are restricted by patents, so > they can't be included right away and the user must confirm it's legal > to use them in his country. > > i'm willing to pay some license fees Why then do you bother with Free Software in the first place? >> Flash is a proprietary software which also has to be installed by > user, probably because of it's license restrictions. > >> I don't think I'll get in hell after death, because of using > proprietary software (i'm an atheist anyway) I don't see any reason why > Adobe should not want to collaborate with Canonical. It's quite simple to get it - people bother with Ubuntu and Free Software, because they want freedom, and that is their definition of it. If Adobe wants to collaborate with Canonical, Adobe must make their software Free. If Adobe makes non-free software, Canonical won't collaborate with Adobe. The website http://www.gnu.org explains pretty well why software should be free. If it doesn't convince you, then use whatever tickles your fancy. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: asdf (asdf123123-deactivatedaccount-deactivatedaccount) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:03:50 -0000 Message-Id: <2f30da460808050703t5e5d773by16d516f311a81f4d@mail.gmail.com> > Why then do you bother with Free Software in the first place? I like some open source software like Firefox, RubyOnRails, Python, Java, WebKit, Gimp, Apache, etc > If Adobe wants to collaborate with Canonical, Adobe must make their > software Free. Uhh I thought Canonical is a business, not a communist organization.. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Amir E. Aharoni (amir-aharoni) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:36:10 -0000 Message-Id: <97f280ea0808050736k1a89e354g8867aa0fa11da5e7@mail.gmail.com> >> If Adobe wants to collaborate with Canonical, Adobe must make their >> software Free. > > Uhh I thought Canonical is a business, not a communist organization.. I'm not an employee of Canonical, but to the best of my understanding, it is not a communist organization, but a business, which is improving and releasing Free Software. This business wouldn't be possible without the Free Software community, so it gives something back by sticking to Free Software principles. The Free Software movement have been called communist many times: http://www.google.com/search?q=3Dsite:www.gnu.org+communist >> Why then do you bother with Free Software in the first place? > > I like some open source software like Firefox, RubyOnRails, Python, > Java, WebKit, Gimp, Apache, etc Do you like them because of their functionality, because you don't have to pay for them, or because they are Free/Open Source? I'm not a graphic designer, but from what i've heard Photoshop is functionally better than Gimp. So if you would receive a license for Photoshop for zero dollars, would you keep using Gimp? I would keep using GNU/Linux even if i would get Windows for zero dollars, despite the fact GNU/Linux lacks some functionality that Windows has, because i want to use Free Software. The many social and technical benefits of Free Software are listed at www.gnu.org , but here's my favorite: You are allowed, legally and technically, to fix the bugs in it yourself, and if you don't have the skill to fix the bug, you can file a bug in a public bug-tracking system and actually follow its solution, often seeing the most important developers and project leaders participating in it. You won't get that in the proprietary software world. So basically, the existence of Launchpad as a public bug-reporting website is a huge advantage of Ubuntu. The same goes for SourceForge, Bugzilla and other public bug-reporting websites, which - to the best of knowledge - only exist in the Free Software community. But hey, if you don't care about it, then you shouldn't care about this "Bug #1". And to answer your original question - there are many other bugs about improving user experience. --=20 Amir Elisha Aharoni heb: http://haharoni.wordpress.com | eng: http://aharoni.wordpress.com cat: http://aprenent.wordpress.com | rus: http://amire80.livejournal.com "We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace." - T. Moore --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Vadim Peretokin (vperetokin) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 16:41:55 -0000 Message-Id: <6995ca080808050941pea4d54jbb7b80359ab21cc1@mail.gmail.com> This isn't the place for this. Nils, just because certain hardware or whatever didn't work out for you, it doesn't mean it won't for millions of other people. It's okay to go away, but it's not play to preach and claim to everyone else that this isn't gonna work, when it certainly can, and save a lot of time, money, and nerves. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: asdf (asdf123123-deactivatedaccount-deactivatedaccount) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 17:04:17 -0000 Message-Id: <2f30da460808051004l3e58a943u7e8fb85222750ad7@mail.gmail.com> it's not only certain hardware. It's a general frustration with Ubuntu, for example flash worked in Gutsy. With Hardy it crashes all the time or there are problems with the sound (I guess they are related to pulseaudio or something) The point is: I think Ubuntu should try harder to provide a better user experience and take QA more seriously. Btw: I still have Ubuntu on my Box at home, but I'm really tired of things which work not really well. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Vadim Peretokin (vperetokin) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 17:56:36 -0000 Message-Id: <6995ca080808051056o258b7b44v567f67ac65e6336e@mail.gmail.com> Ubuntu QA is being taken more seriously; what we need is people in the QA team. If you'd like, you're more than welcome to join and help them! Understandable that things breaking are a bad thing. But it's the same reason why many people are switching to Ubuntu, too. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Sart (sart-ua) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:39:05 -0000 Message-Id: <20080805213905.17324.68622.malone@palladium.canonical.com> 2 Vadim Peretokin - judging from your name, you speak Russian, so - =D1=8F =D0=BD=D0=B5 =D1=85=D0=BE=D1=87=D1=83 =D1=80=D0=B0=D0=B7=D0=B2=D0=BE=D0=B4= =D0=B8=D1=82=D1=8C Holy War, =D0=BF=D1=80=D0=BE=D1=81=D1=82=D0=BE =D0=BC=D0= =BD=D0=B5 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=B9=D1=81=D1=82=D0=B2=D0=B8=D1=82=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1= =8C=D0=BD=D0=BE =D1=81=D1=82=D1=80=D0=B0=D0=BD=D0=BD=D0=BE =D1=81=D0=BB=D1= =8B=D1=88=D0=B0=D1=82=D1=8C, =D1=87=D1=82=D0=BE =D1=83 =D0=9D=D0=B8=D0=BB=D1=8C=D1=81=D0=B0 =D0=BD=D0=B5= =D1=80=D0=B0=D0=B1=D0=BE=D1=82=D0=B0=D1=8E=D1=82 =D0=B2=D0=B5=D1=89=D0=B8,= =D0=BE =D0=BA=D0=BE=D1=82=D0=BE=D1=80=D1=8B=D1=85 =D0=BE=D0=BD =D0=BF=D0= =B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB. =D0=A1=D0=BA=D0=BE=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=BA=D0=BE =D0=B7=D0= =BD=D0=B0=D1=8E =D0=BF=D0=B8=D0=BD=D0=B3=D0=B2=D0=B8=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B2=D0=BE=D0=B4=D0=BE=D0= =B2 - =D1=83 =D0=B2=D1=81=D0=B5=D1=85 =D1=80=D0=B0=D0=B1=D0=BE=D1=82=D0=B0= =D0=B5=D1=82. =D0=92 =D0=BB=D1=8E=D0=B1=D0=BE=D0=BC =D1=81=D0=BB=D1=83=D1= =87=D0=B0=D0=B5, =D0=B8=D0=BB=D0=B8 =D1=80=D1=83=D0=BA=D0=B8 =D0=BA=D1=80= =D0=B8=D0=B2=D1=8B=D0=B5, =D0=B8=D0=BB=D0=B8 =D0=B6=D0=B5=D0=BB=D0=B5=D0=B7=D0=BE =D1=85=D0=B8=D1=82=D1=80=D0=BE=D0=B5. = =D0=90 =D0=BF=D0=BE =D0=BF=D0=BE=D0=B2=D0=BE=D0=B4=D1=83 =D0=BD=D0=B5=D1=83= =D0=B4=D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=81=D1=82=D0=B2=D0=B0 =D0=B3=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=BC=D0=B0 -= =D1=82=D0=B0=D0=BA =D0=BC=D0=BD=D0=B5 =D0=BE=D0=BD =D1=82=D0=BE=D0=B6=D0= =B5 =D0=BD=D0=B5 =D0=B2 =D0=B4=D1=83=D0=B3=D1=83, =D0=B6=D0=B8=D0=B2=D1=83 =D1=81 =D0=9A=D0=B5=D0=B4=D0=B0=D0=BC=D0=B8. 2 Amir E. Aharoni - =D0=BF=D0=BB=D1=8E=D1=81 =D0=BE=D0=B4=D0=B8=D0=BD :)= =D0=90 =D0=BF=D0=BE =D0=BF=D0=BE=D0=B2=D0=BE=D0=B4=D1=83 =D0=BF=D0=BE=D0= =BB=D1=8C=D0=B7=D0=BE=D0=B2=D0=B0=D0=BD=D0=B8=D1=8F =D1=81=D0=B2=D0=BE=D0= =B1=D0=BE=D0=B4=D0=BD=D1=8B=D0=BC =D0=9F=D0=9E - =D1=82=D0=B0=D0=BA =D1=8F =D0=B1=D1=8B =D0=92=D0=B8=D0=BD=D0=B4=D1=83 =D0= =B8 =D0=BD=D0=B0 =D1=88=D0=B0=D1=80=D1=83 =D0=BD=D0=B5 =D0=BF=D0=BE=D0=BB= =D1=8C=D0=B7=D0=BE=D0=B2=D0=B0=D0=BB. =D0=A1=D0=BF=D0=B0=D1=81=D0=B8=D0=B1= =D0=BE, =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=81=D1=8F =D1=81=D0=BE =D0=B2=D1=80=D0= =B5=D0=BC=D0=B5=D0=BD 98-=D0=B9. =D0=9F=D0=BE =D0=BF=D0=BE=D0=B2=D0=BE=D0=B4=D1=83 =D0=93=D0=B8=D0=BC=D0=BF= =D0=B0 - =D0=BD=D0=B0 =D1=81=D0=B5=D0=B3=D0=BE=D0=B4=D0=BD=D1=8F =D0=BE=D0= =BD =D0=BD=D0=B5 =D1=83=D1=81=D1=82=D1=83=D0=BF=D0=B0=D0=B5=D1=82 =D0=A4=D0= =BE=D1=82=D0=BE=D1=88=D0=BE=D0=BF=D1=83. =D0=9F=D1=80=D0=BE=D0=B1=D0=BB=D0= =B5=D0=BC=D0=B0 =D1=82=D0=BE=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=BA=D0=BE =D0=B2 =D1=82=D0=BE=D0=BC, =D1=87=D1=82=D0=BE =D0=BA =D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BC=D1=83 =D0= =BD=D1=83=D0=B6=D0=BD=D0=BE =D0=BF=D1=80=D0=B8=D0=B2=D1=8B=D0=BA=D0=BD=D1= =83=D1=82=D1=8C, =D1=80=D0=B0=D0=B7=D0=BE=D0=B1=D1=80=D0=B0=D1=82=D1=8C=D1= =81=D1=8F, =D0=BE=D1=81=D0=B2=D0=BE=D0=B8=D1=82=D1=8C... =D0=A2=D0=B0=D0=BC= =D0=B2=D1=81=D0=B5 =D0=BD=D0=B5 =D1=82=D0=B0=D0=BC =D0=B8 =D0=BD=D0=B5=D0=BC=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B3=D0=BE =D0=BD=D0=B5 =D1=82=D0=B0= =D0=BA, =D0=BA=D0=B0=D0=BA =D0=B2 =D0=A4=D0=BE=D1=82=D0=BE=D1=88=D0=BE=D0= =BF=D0=B5 - =D0=B2=D0=BE=D1=82 =D0=B8 =D0=B2=D1=81=D0=B5. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: nulled (elitescripts2000) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 09:05:09 -0000 Message-Id: <20080808090511.7877.31561.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> This bug will be chipped away in time. Launchpad itself is the perfect, or at least on the right track, to unify bugzillas and other bug trackers. This is key as some bugs are fixed in upstream but in down stream like in Ubuntu itself. Ubuntu will also have a fighting chance at smashing this bug but integrating with MS as much as possible. Things like WINE and SAMBA and ability to join MS Active Directory Domain servers. In a homiogenous computer environment, eventually the more secure and best software will win and become a mono-os culture of linux distros, including SuSE, Madriva, Redhat and more or any linux distro that wishes to subscribe. The fact, Ubuntu is able to satisfy the non-free drivers existing in seperate repositories allow PRO CHOICE if you want to for instance instann the nv driver or the nvidia binary driver as a restricted driver. Again, satisfies both parties. You have to be able to play music and movies, using the current massive market for them. In time nvidia will open source as is evident with Intel and many more wireless and nic drivers have opened up.... in due time,until then the restricted drivers work around is only logical. Mark Shuttle worth is well rounded, highly successful already, passionate and has money to fund the project where needed. He also knows how to speak well and fast and hit all the right key points by deriving from debian. And probably the nail in the deal is that Ubuntu does NOT have two licences, like openSUSE, Fedora, Ubuntu is Ubuntu and will always be free. Yet, is combined. In other words, no duel licences BS. this is very cool. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Harsh Singh (hisingh1) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 18:00:46 -0000 Message-Id: <7da17e8a0808091100x461dc639k84dc7651a9e2a9f5@mail.gmail.com> WOOOT great job man, i totally agree! On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 4:05 AM, nulled wrote: > This bug will be chipped away in time. Launchpad itself is the perfect, > or at least on the right track, to unify bugzillas and other bug > trackers. This is key as some bugs are fixed in upstream but in down > stream like in Ubuntu itself. > > Ubuntu will also have a fighting chance at smashing this bug but > integrating with MS as much as possible. Things like WINE and SAMBA and > ability to join MS Active Directory Domain servers. > > In a homiogenous computer environment, eventually the more secure and > best software will win and become a mono-os culture of linux distros, > including SuSE, Madriva, Redhat and more or any linux distro that wishes > to subscribe. > > The fact, Ubuntu is able to satisfy the non-free drivers existing in > seperate repositories allow PRO CHOICE if you want to for instance > instann the nv driver or the nvidia binary driver as a restricted > driver. Again, satisfies both parties. You have to be able to play music > and movies, using the current massive market for them. In time nvidia > will open source as is evident with Intel and many more wireless and nic > drivers have opened up.... in due time,until then the restricted drivers > work around is only logical. > > Mark Shuttle worth is well rounded, highly successful already, > passionate and has money to fund the project where needed. He also knows > how to speak well and fast and hit all the right key points by deriving > from debian. And probably the nail in the deal is that Ubuntu does NOT > have two licences, like openSUSE, Fedora, Ubuntu is Ubuntu and will > always be free. Yet, is combined. In other words, no duel licences BS. > this is very cool. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a member of Clubuntu > team, which is a bug assignee. > > Status in Clubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Confirmed > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Nick_Hill (nick-nickhill) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 19:32:04 -0000 Message-Id: <20080809193204.20446.24264.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Harsh Singh;=20 It was unnecessary to re-post the whole of Nulled message.=20 Apart from that, it doesn't make much sense to me. For example, paragraph 3 talks about "a homiogenous computer environment". There is no such word as homiogenous. There is homogeneous and heterogeneous, but substituting either word still makes no sense to me. I could go on, but this isn't really a place to plainly agree, disagree or dissect what someone has said. That is best for a debating chamber. Let's concentrate the discussion on what we can do to help more people have a good experience of and to appreciate the virtues of free software. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: magilus (magilus) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 17:15:35 -0000 Message-Id: <1218388535.2916.5.camel@medora> unsubscribe --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: emsenn (morgan-sennhauser-deactivatedaccount) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 04:13:46 -0000 Message-Id: <20080811041346.27983.64942.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Help. I'm writing in from Ohio, in the United States. I recently attended a cookout with an Acer Aspire One with Ubuntu by my side. When asked what it was, I said it was a notebook with Ubuntu, which is a type of Linux, which is an operating system. The general reply was that their computers ran Dell operating systems. Please send men in Human-themed suits to aid these poor people who didn't even realize that there were other options beside Windows (honest - they thought Mac's were just Windows boxes with prettier cases.) Please... I don't know how much longer I can last with my efficient computers and lack of viruses. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: codeslinger (codeslinger) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 18:51:59 -0000 Message-Id: <20080811185159.27861.44563.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> This is a very good bug report with plenty of repros. However there are some related causes which have been overlooked. The reason that people use XP is because "it just works" out of the box. The reason that people don't want Vista is because it does not work, there = is much that is broken with it and the user interface is terrible. The reason that people avoid Linux is because of the perception that it is too complex and that it does not work. Now we all know that Ubuntu with GNOME takes care of most of the complexity issues, Linux used to be too complex but this is no longer the case, the GNOME user interface is much better than Vista. Now we must educate people about how easy Linux has become. But!!! Ubuntu still has not achieved the level of out-of-the-box "it just works" capability which XP delivers. The following comments are based on experience with Ubuntu Hardy 8.04 and hopefully won't apply to newer versions. Specific things that desperately need to be fixed. 1) The web browser, Firefox, which is perhaps people's number one most used app, it does not work out of the box, it will not play flash/videos/audio etc. and getting it to work is much too complex and difficult. I know there are copyright and patent issues etc. But a person should not have to search all over the web and find lots of bad/obsolete advice in the process. There should just be an icon on the desktop that takes you to a web page with correct and up-to-date information on how to install all of the usual addon's that people want. And the process of installing should be made as simple as possible. 2) Quicktime, does not work. I have spent many many hours trying to get it to work. All my computer does is crash... other people have reported this same problem. 3) Samba should just work, but it does not!!! I simply want to click on a printer and tell it to be shared and it does it. This should work out-of-the-box but in fact the Samba Server software is not even installed only the client is installed. It is not enough to be able to access other people's computers, it must be possible to with a minimum of effort to give other Windows computers access to your Ubuntu computer. And it must be easy to do this, I never did get Samba printer sharing to work, instead I got Windows to use the CUPS sharing which was not difficult on XP, but it certainly does not meet user expectations of point and click printer install, it also a lot of research to do CUPS on Win98 and required finding and installing hard to get software. The same thing for Shared Folders, even though with many hours of effort I got Shared Folders to work with XP I still did not get it to work with Win98. I suspect this is because Win98 uses a different SMB protocol then does XP. But it is very important that this be able to work and Samba does have the ability to support both and Samb does work fine on other distros that I have tried. 4) The GNOME printer manager is mostly okay but it lacks some fundamental functionality. People need to be able to see the print queue and they need to be able to cancel/hold a print job and to put a printer on hold with a minimum of fuss. With the currently installed default software this is not possible. By installing a different program -- after much trial and error, it does become possible to view the job queue but still lacks functionality for managing print jobs. This needs to change. The KDE print manager is much better than anything I have seen on GNOME. 5) People want to be able to play movies on their computer. I did the research and found out that it is actually legal (now) in the USA to install libdecss. The courts have recognized the legitimate right to play videos that you have purchased. It is still illegal to use it to copy a movie, but you are allowed to install the software for playing the movie. It takes hours of searching the web to find this out and to find out how to install it. There should be an icon on the desktop that takes you to a website that gives detailed info about how to install it and what is known about the laws for your country. 6) WINE needs to be better, if Canonical can afford it they should put some dev resources in their direction. Overall Ubuntu is Excellent!!!! But these are some really core issues. Fix these fundamental things and Ubuntu can take off like a Rocket!!!! But as long as Ubuntu remains as it is, it will forever be a small niche product. By the way, I am also concerned about the bug system, many bugs seem to stay for a very long time without any action being taken..... I hope Mark, that you will see this entry and give these things some thought. I am a new comer to Ubuntu and it has been a mixture of delight and frustration. I have been in the computer industry since the days of punched cards. And I really don't see Ubuntu as being viable until most of the issues I have outlined are addressed. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Bernhard (b.a.koenig) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 16:51:30 -0000 Message-Id: <20080816165130.29534.22582.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I think we can close this bug.... http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gQtswIhRynLJETfc1SJbeEYkvrPwD92IS1VO0 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Bernhard (b.a.koenig) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 22:37:23 -0000 Message-Id: <20080816223723.25015.32410.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> OMG, now #001 shows up 10 (!) times in my bug list and clutters my "Bugs related to ..." page. And just because I posted an innocent joke here. Does this really need to have so many "Affects"? Almost seems like poor old Bill Gates is a scapegoat for all our problems. :=3D) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Harsh Singh (hisingh1) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 04:27:09 -0000 Message-Id: <7da17e8a0808162127v97694bem5938ac847835b25e@mail.gmail.com> Check this link out... Not only does the eye candy not match the advanced features of compiz fusion.;.. but also there are many holes in the operating systems security... http://cryptogon.com/?p=3D3385 <<< this link is a nice example. I started ubuntu because i though Vista was junk... but the initial change happened when i saw my friend talking about it... I thnk what we need to do is advertise our support and make ubuntu known! On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 5:37 PM, Bernhard Koenig wrote: > OMG, now #001 shows up 10 (!) times in my bug list and clutters my "Bugs > related to ..." page. And just because I posted an innocent joke here. > Does this really need to have so many "Affects"? Almost seems like poor > old Bill Gates is a scapegoat for all our problems. :=3D) > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a member of Club > Distro team, which is a bug assignee. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Botscharow (jbotscharow) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 00:18:05 -0000 Message-Id: <20080818001806.11651.86919.malone@palladium.canonical.com> I have been following the discussions of this bug with some amusement for the last couple of months. I amnot a developer, just a semi-literate computer user who has no interest in coding,only in the best possible functionality from my computers. I tend to leave the coding to those with the talent and interest in that area I have four computers in my house, of which only one iuses Ubuntu as its operating system. The rest, including my new computer, use Vista, noy because I prefer Vista to Ubuntu, but because some of the most important programs we use take a great deal of coding skill to get them to work in Ubuntu, especially the RPG games like World of Warcraft and Neverwinter Nights. As I said Iam not a coding expert, but I do have a fairamount of marketing expertise, having been in sales and marketing for most of my adult life [I am 60]. Bg #1 will not be fixed until the Ubuntu community makes a major marketing shift away from focusing on the technically- oriented population to focusing on converting the semi-literate computer users that comprise the vast majority of Windows users. The attraction of Windows - which is the weakness of Ubuntu -is that it requires little effort on the part of the user to configure it to rum whatever programs the semi-literate computer user wants. Until the developers who work on Ubuntu are willing to design Ubuntu to do that, Microsoft will always have the lion's share of the market. To be honest though,I see little interest or commitment on the part of the Ubuntu community to do that So, this bug should probably be closed beause a guf is something that cab and will be fixed. I don't see a fix for this bug as ever happening. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Vadim Peretokin (vperetokin) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 01:08:11 -0000 Message-Id: <6995ca080808171808q5f29a3a9x49006f84275adb0c@mail.gmail.com> "The attraction of Windows - which is the weakness of Ubuntu -is that it requires little effort on the part of the user to configure it to rum whatever programs the semi-literate computer user wants." I don't agree with you. To run a program in Ubuntu, it is maximum of 3 clicks, and as an added bonus, they're all categorized properly. To run a program in Windows, you have to (from what I remember), click on Start - Programs - and then you're greeted with a huge, unfiled mess of programs. Or I believe the latest version even introduces a search function for you to sort out through the mess? I can't recall. Anyway, I don't find your arguments valid, especially the ones in regards to what Ubuntu developers are doing. It's almost saying that the millions of Ubuntu installations are a fluke. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Nemes Ioan Sorin (nemes-sorin) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 01:38:07 -0000 Message-Id: man (emsenn) - your report was the coolest I think from the last 1000 ;) so ..some peoples think that MAC OS is a theme for XP .. this is great - I have a good story now when I'll be an old man. - thanks - 2008/8/11 emsenn > Help. I'm writing in from Ohio, in the United States. > > I recently attended a cookout with an Acer Aspire One with Ubuntu by my > side. When asked what it was, I said it was a notebook with Ubuntu, > which is a type of Linux, which is an operating system. The general > reply was that their computers ran Dell operating systems. > > Please send men in Human-themed suits to aid these poor people who > didn't even realize that there were other options beside Windows (honest > - they thought Mac's were just Windows boxes with prettier cases.) > > Please... I don't know how much longer I can last with my efficient > computers and lack of viruses. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --=20 Nemes Ioan Sorin --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Fernando Miguel (fernandomiguel) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 13:02:38 -0000 Message-Id: <200808181402.39518.Ubuntu@bugabundo.net> Ol=C3=A1 John e a todos. On Monday 18 August 2008 01:18:05 John Botscharow wrote: The rest, including my new computer, use Vista, noy > because I prefer Vista to Ubuntu, but because some of the most important > programs we use take a great deal of coding skill to get them to work in > Ubuntu, especially the RPG games like World of Warcraft and Neverwinter > Nights. #sudo apt-get install wine #winecfg #wine /PATHTOWOW/wow.exe Is this too much "coding"? --=20 BUGabundo :o) (``-_-=C2=B4=C2=B4) http://Ubuntu.BUGabundo.net Linux user #443786 GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net ps. My emails tend to sound authority and aggressive. I'm sorry in advance.= I'll try to be more assertive as time goes by... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Vadim Peretokin (vperetokin) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:50:53 -0000 Message-Id: <6995ca080808180850g761c5f0bw7643f45ed05aad5a@mail.gmail.com> > > #sudo apt-get install wine > #winecfg > #wine /PATHTOWOW/wow.exe > > Is this too much "coding"? > It actually is. The obvious way would be double-click on a .exe, have ubuntu offer to install wine automatically if it's not, run the .exe. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Botscharow (jbotscharow) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:14:30 -0000 Message-Id: <48A9D826.2070907@jbotscharow.com> Vadim, You misunderstood me I was not talking about the actual starting of a=20 program, but rather configuring the computer to so that it will rum a=20 program like World of Warcraft to work on that computer. And my=20 criticism of the developers is that they still design Ubuntu and all the=20 other Linux distros with the assumption that the end user is something=20 more sophisticated than a semi=3Dliterate computer user. I will admit that = Ubuntu is better at fixing this issue than other Linux distros, but it=20 still needs a lot of improvement in that area. Vadim Peretokin wrote: > "The attraction of Windows - which is the weakness of Ubuntu -is that it > requires little effort on the part of the user to configure it to rum > whatever programs the semi-literate computer user wants." > > I don't agree with you. > > To run a program in Ubuntu, it is maximum of 3 clicks, and as an added > bonus, they're all categorized properly. > > To run a program in Windows, you have to (from what I remember), click > on Start - Programs - and then you're greeted with a huge, unfiled > mess of programs. Or I believe the latest version even introduces a > search function for you to sort out through the mess? I can't recall. > > Anyway, I don't find your arguments valid, especially the ones in > regards to what Ubuntu developers are doing. It's almost saying that > the millions of Ubuntu installations are a fluke. > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Vadim Peretokin (vperetokin) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:52:33 -0000 Message-Id: <6995ca080808181352w19028388r7403ec8b85f4b77c@mail.gmail.com> World of Warcraft is not designed to be run on Linux, so I don't see how Linux is at fault here really. The majority of desktop applications that are designed for Linux do not require any configuration at all in order to get them to run, just like on Windows. I'm also not positive on your assumption on what type Ubuntu developers are aiming for. Can you please provide me with data that they said this? Meanwhile, please take a look at the following blueprints and the use case scenario in them: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/3GNetworkingIntrepid https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Intrepid/GuestAccount https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SlickBoot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CompositeByDefault https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumIntegration https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Chat And for some of the already implemented blueprints: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkRoaming https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EasyCodecInstallation https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GnomeAppInstallCodecs https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallerForWindows https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/HardyDesktopEffects https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hardware/Detection?action=3Dshow&redirect=3DHardwar= eDetection ... and many more blueprints are openly available here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu I believe you're going off your assumptions here, without having seen and understood all of the work that is currently going on. Ubuntu mailing lists are available here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/, feel free to sign up for the relevant ones, and then you'll start to get an idea of what is being done in Ubuntu. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Botscharow (jbotscharow) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:59:09 -0000 Message-Id: <48A9F0AD.5090707@jbotscharow.com> Vadim Peretokin wrote: > World of Warcraft is not designed to be run on Linux, so I don't see > how Linux is at fault here really. The majority of desktop > applications that are designed for Linux do not require any > configuration at all in order to get them to run, just like on > Windows. > =20 That;s right and there are a lot of other programs that are widely used=20 that do not work in Linux and that is whu Bug #1 is irrelevant. Windows=20 users will not switch until they cam run their favorite games and other=20 propruetary software in Linux. Most Linux advocates would like to see=20 the manufaacturers of these programs to develop Linux versions but that=20 won't happen until Linux users represent a signicant enough market share=20 to make doing so cost effective. But Linux will not achieve that kind of=20 market share until one group of Linux developers commits to desgning a=20 fistro that makes running ANY program simple and easy. Iagree that for basic desktop needs, Ubuntu is better than Windows, but=20 the vast majority of computer users use their computers for a lot more=20 than just basic desktop functions and that is where Windows has the=20 edge, because it will run those programs where Linux does not. I will take a look at the blueprint a little later when I have more=20 time.As ofr your request for data, my conclusion is based on wha I have=20 seen in the distros and things that were said when I was a member of=20 several teams I no longer belong to There were a lot of umpleasantness=20 involved and I'd rather not stir up that hornet's nest any more thn=20 necessary. =20 > I'm also not positive on your assumption on what type Ubuntu > developers are aiming for. Can you please provide me with data that > they said this? > > Meanwhile, please take a look at the following blueprints and the use > case scenario in them: > > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/3GNetworkingIntrepid > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Intrepid/GuestAccount > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SlickBoot > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CompositeByDefault > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumIntegration > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Chat > > And for some of the already implemented blueprints: > > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkRoaming > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EasyCodecInstallation > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GnomeAppInstallCodecs > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallerForWindows > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/HardyDesktopEffects > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hardware/Detection?action=3Dshow&redirect=3DHardw= areDetection > > ... and many more blueprints are openly available here: > https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu > > > I believe you're going off your assumptions here, without having seen > and understood all of the work that is currently going on. Ubuntu > mailing lists are available here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/, feel free > to sign up for the relevant ones, and then you'll start to get an idea > of what is being done in Ubuntu. > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Pyper (jpyper) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 22:57:51 -0000 Message-Id: If the additional bin formats package was installed by default, I don't see why that could be a problem. John Pyper BaD_CrC on Freenode IRC On 8/18/08, Vadim Peretokin wrote: >> >> #sudo apt-get install wine >> #winecfg >> #wine /PATHTOWOW/wow.exe >> >> Is this too much "coding"? >> > > It actually is. The obvious way would be double-click on a .exe, have > ubuntu offer to install wine automatically if it's not, run the .exe. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Bernhard (b.a.koenig) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:54:12 -0000 Message-Id: <20080819135412.29667.66679.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> OK, I gave this another thought and I came to the conclusion that we should all switch back to Windows and I'll tell you why. If we all go to our local computer store, buy the latest Windows edition and install it on our computers then this will bring lots of cash into Microsoft's money bags. But as we all know, this money will not be used for research or the development of new bloatware. No! All the money will go directly to the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation and they will use it to help Africa. Let these guys save the world, I have enough problems in my own life. Hence, if Bill & Melinda can do all these good deeds and raise the level of income in Africa then this will prevent South African entrepreneurs from flooding global markets with unbeatably cheap (or even free) products. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Shane Fagan (shanepatrickfagan) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:37:24 -0000 Message-Id: <20080819143725.23050.6213.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Or instead of buying windows to help Africa. How about just donating the money you would have used to buy windows to a charity and have all of the money going to the poor. That would cut out giving money to microsoft corp and helping put up the numbers of computer users who bought vista. Support for a flawed product just because they donate a little to Africa. Your logic is flawed. Shane --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Nick_Hill (nick-nickhill) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:11:27 -0000 Message-Id: <20080819151127.25963.67768.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Hello Shane Before your post, I didn't believe for one moment Bernhard Koenig's proposed solution to this bug was serious. I thought it was a genuine ironic joke. As an ironic joke, it is sublime. As an earnest piece, somewhat flawed. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Botscharow (jbotscharow) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:29:11 -0000 Message-Id: <48AAF4D7.7030201@jbotscharow.com> I believe it was meant as irony and as such, it is quite good. I believe=20 Shane completely missed the point of Bernhard's post. what makes it even=20 more ironicis that the only reason Bil gates has any interest in Africa=20 is because it is a wide-open market for Microsoft products/ There is no=20 altruism at all in that man's black heart. Nick_Hill wrote: > Hello Shane > > Before your post, I didn't believe for one moment Bernhard Koenig's > proposed solution to this bug was serious. I thought it was a genuine > ironic joke. > > As an ironic joke, it is sublime. As an earnest piece, somewhat flawed. > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Shane Fagan (shanepatrickfagan) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 22:28:40 -0000 Message-Id: <20080819222840.23050.92228.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Oh I get it now. Thanks for the clarification. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Erico Schuch (eschuch) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 02:59:57 -0000 Message-Id: In Brazil, the government instituted linux as platform of education for public schools. the site for download the versions used in the schools is http://www.webeduc.mec.gov.br/linuxeducacional/index.php { PT-BR Only } The problem now is that it lacks people who know linux to teach. First given steps. And I believe that they are great. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Erico Schuch (eschuch) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 03:02:09 -0000 Message-Id: In Brazil, the government instituted linux as platform of education for public schools. the site for download the versions used in the schools is http://www.webeduc.mec.gov.br/linuxeducacional/index.php { PT-BR Only } The problem now is that it lacks people who know linux to teach. First given steps. And I believe that they are great. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: SCSI-nyetr (scs-i) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 15:58:53 -0000 Message-Id: <20080820155853.9486.73834.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Dell: Dell doesn't seem serious about free software yet. Why do they lie that they 'recommend Windows Vista' when their own founder used to* run Ubuntu? And why do they scare users by directing them to Vista PCs with a "Not sure open source is for you?" link? * According the Dell's website^, he runs Windows Vista. Perhaps this was marketing pressure? ^ www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/corp/biographies/en/msd_computers?c= =3Dus&l=3Den&s=3Dcorp --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Erico Schuch (eschuch) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 17:05:29 -0000 Message-Id: Well, I worked in a company that sels WINDOWS licenses. It was obliged by contract force to place this type of text. The money still orders. But we have to continue. Here in Brazil, the government compelled that all the laboratories of computer science of the schools possess only free programs, including the operational system. An excellent step. On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 12:58 PM, SCSI-nyetr wrote: > Dell: Dell doesn't seem serious about free software yet. Why do they lie > that they 'recommend Windows Vista' when their own founder used to* run > Ubuntu? And why do they scare users by directing them to Vista PCs with > a "Not sure open source is for you?" link? > > * According the Dell's website^, he runs Windows Vista. Perhaps this was > marketing pressure? > > ^ > www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/corp/biographies/en/msd_computers= ?c=3Dus&l=3Den&s=3Dcorp > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --=20 Att Erico Schuch http://www.blogger.com/profile/13402861962636211753 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?QW5kcsOhcyDDgWNzIChhLWFjcyk=?= Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:36:02 -0000 Message-Id: <20080827173604.20685.67096.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Just had a look at the 8.10 bug list, and seeing things like: System.DllNotFoundException gives me shivers and makes me wonder if fixing of bug #1 actually progresses in the right direction. In Hungary the situation is almost hopeless, as nearly all respected universities train students on Microsoftware (including programmers). The eeePC generated some news in papers, including mentioning the word Linux, but public awareness of the problem (or the alternatives) is still virtually non-existent. Anyways I'm a happy GNU/Linux user and am grateful to all the people who contributed to this phenomenon (and let's not forget Richard Stallman). --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alex Mayorga (alex-mayorga) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:49:23 -0000 Message-Id: <20080827204923.13275.63134.malone@palladium.canonical.com> @sabdfl maybe next time you go into space you should carry some Ubuntu CDs with you and help fix this bug at least up there. Looks like they had the typical problems of this bug in the Space Station http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/08/virus-infects-s.html --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: ehcpdeveloper (ehcpdeveloper) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:15:38 -0000 Message-Id: <20080829211538.18581.50368.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> I use on my home/office/desktop/notebook for almost 3 years, with only linu= x install on my machines. so, microsoft is not a critical bug for me anymore... But, i need a good ide, like delphi or something, easy (not eclipse or like that complex)... I think Linux needs a standardization...=20 so many linuxes.... this is not good. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: ehcpdeveloper (ehcpdeveloper) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:18:10 -0000 Message-Id: <20080829211810.6772.43887.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> In Turkey,=20 Turkish Revenue Administartion of Ministrey of Finance, has loaded 20.000 c= omputers with Openoffice, And softwares of this Ministery is almost became compatible with Linux. Turkish Ministery of Defence also uses Linux on most places... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?QW5kcsOhcyDDgWNzIChhLWFjcyk=?= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 23:41:31 -0000 Message-Id: <20080829234132.18581.41231.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> bvidinli_ehcp: One of the points of Free Software licenses is to support true evolution of= software, by sharing and participation, without restricting the direction = taken and forcing them as a whole into arbitrary standards. (Components adh= ering to certain standards is a different matter, I think this is not what = you meant.) If there weren't so many Linuces, you would not be able to enjo= y your distribution now in the first place. This is evolution: branches gro= wing branches growing branches. (And branches merging then branching again.= ) This makes diverse, peer-reviewed, high quality code (and an user-friendl= y, free-as-in-speech OS of your choice). Also consider that Linux usage is = by no means limited to the average PC desk/laptop but far greater and diver= se than that. If you'd like 'one and only', go forth (back) and use YouKnowWhich OS (with Delphi installed). For the IDE, take a look at Gambas (if you don't mind programming in Basic,= although an object oriented dialect of that). It can be seen as a 'smarter= ' version of Visual Basic. Kylix would be the closest to Delphi but that project is long dead as far a= s I know. CodeBlocks is an IDE for some compiled languages, most notably C/C++. The w= xSmith GUI builder is integrated into that. You can try other separate GUI builders as well, and use your favourite tex= t editor for the rest. Not using all-in-one environments can be a good thing, because you will gro= w your own style of development, you get used to writing more flexible code= , can have control of every little detail and you don't depend on a bloated= Big App and its limitations, etcetc. Stepping back, it can be seen as the = OS is your IDE and all the programs you use for developing are the IDE's co= mponents. This way you can also prepare for the need of quick and dirty GUI= apps. I suggest you try Python with wxPython. Python is an easy-to-use, powerful,= clean, cross-platform language, and most likely comes with your distro. Co= upled with wxPython (which is based on the wxWidgets C++ library), you can = create nice'n'flexible applications quickly. (Both are very well documented= , including tutorials.) Recommended reading: www.fsf.org, www.gnu.org. wikipedia.org (also google.com) regards --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: ehcpdeveloper (ehcpdeveloper) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 07:13:25 -0000 Message-Id: <36e8a7020808300013n75a37d9el3615494362726134@mail.gmail.com> Thank you for your comments. I dont have any intension to turn back to Windoze.. even i need a good ide in Linux. I tried python,wxpython, gambas, eclipse, netbeans, tkinter, kylix, wxwidgets... and all known ides in linux... i serch over net for those subjects every day, over viki, google, forges, codes..... I stated out a need for Linux: an easy IDE.... none of above ... netbeans and eclipse is somewhat better, but not in db applications... i think Ubuntu community/canonical can handle this... see you.. 2008/8/30 Andr=C3=A1s =C3=81cs : > bvidinli_ehcp: > One of the points of Free Software licenses is to support true evolution = of software, by sharing and participation, without restricting the directio= n taken and forcing them as a whole into arbitrary standards. (Components a= dhering to certain standards is a different matter, I think this is not wha= t you meant.) If there weren't so many Linuces, you would not be able to en= joy your distribution now in the first place. This is evolution: branches g= rowing branches growing branches. (And branches merging then branching agai= n.) This makes diverse, peer-reviewed, high quality code (and an user-frien= dly, free-as-in-speech OS of your choice). Also consider that Linux usage i= s by no means limited to the average PC desk/laptop but far greater and div= erse than that. > > If you'd like 'one and only', go forth (back) and use YouKnowWhich OS > (with Delphi installed). > > For the IDE, take a look at Gambas (if you don't mind programming in Basi= c, although an object oriented dialect of that). It can be seen as a 'smart= er' version of Visual Basic. > Kylix would be the closest to Delphi but that project is long dead as far= as I know. > CodeBlocks is an IDE for some compiled languages, most notably C/C++. The= wxSmith GUI builder is integrated into that. > You can try other separate GUI builders as well, and use your favourite t= ext editor for the rest. > Not using all-in-one environments can be a good thing, because you will g= row your own style of development, you get used to writing more flexible co= de, can have control of every little detail and you don't depend on a bloat= ed Big App and its limitations, etcetc. Stepping back, it can be seen as th= e OS is your IDE and all the programs you use for developing are the IDE's = components. This way you can also prepare for the need of quick and dirty G= UI apps. > I suggest you try Python with wxPython. Python is an easy-to-use, powerfu= l, clean, cross-platform language, and most likely comes with your distro. = Coupled with wxPython (which is based on the wxWidgets C++ library), you ca= n create nice'n'flexible applications quickly. (Both are very well document= ed, including tutorials.) > > Recommended reading: > www.fsf.org, www.gnu.org. wikipedia.org (also google.com) > > regards > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --=20 =C4=B0.Bahattin Vidinli Elk-Elektronik M=C3=BCh. ------------------- iletisim bilgileri: msn/email: bvidinli@iyibirisi.com yahoo,skype,google: bvidinli Vodafone: +90.543.2388711 Turkcell: +90.532.7990607 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 18:28:03 -0000 Message-Id: <20080901182803.4881.41099.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> I noticed two items on Groklaw's News Picks (http://www.groklaw.net/newsitems.php) today that show progress slowly happening on this bug: A report of a notebook with Ubuntu preinstalled for sale in a computer stor= e in Krakow, Poland. http://hughs-space.com/2008/08/30/ubuntu-preinstalled-in-poland/ "Almost one-third of the 25 top-selling laptops [including "netbooks"] at A= mazon.com are sold with Linux." http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=3D2837 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: ehcpdeveloper (ehcpdeveloper) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 21:45:02 -0000 Message-Id: <36e8a7020809011445k6a29f524g4d98b8e65e8fd5b0@mail.gmail.com> These are great... I think Ubuntu/Canonical should take this very important,careful... Ubuntu maybe next generation linux based OS. it is already a great hosting environment. see www.ehcp.net for this. 2008/9/1 Conrad Knauer : > I noticed two items on Groklaw's News Picks > (http://www.groklaw.net/newsitems.php) today that show progress slowly > happening on this bug: > > A report of a notebook with Ubuntu preinstalled for sale in a computer st= ore in Krakow, Poland. > http://hughs-space.com/2008/08/30/ubuntu-preinstalled-in-poland/ > > "Almost one-third of the 25 top-selling laptops [including "netbooks"] at= Amazon.com are sold with Linux." > http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=3D2837 > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --=20 =C4=B0.Bahattin Vidinli Elk-Elektronik M=C3=BCh. ------------------- iletisim bilgileri: msn/email: bvidinli@iyibirisi.com yahoo,skype,google: bvidinli Vodafone: +90.543.2388711 Turkcell: +90.532.7990607 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?TWFydGluIEJvxb5pxI0gKG1hcnRpbi1ib3ppYyk=?= Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2008 08:52:06 -0000 Message-Id: <20080904085207.21813.52218.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> I fixed the bug in a local shop where I work... Actually, we have no Windows CDs to sell (only preinstalled), whereas one of the laptops is Asus EEE with Xandros preinstalled. P.S. I'd like to thank Canonical for prompt response to my request for Ubuntu CDs. It was the fastest delivery ever. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Shane Fagan (shanepatrickfagan) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 10:44:52 -0000 Message-Id: <20080905104452.29667.86046.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> But you still sell windows because its pre-installed by default on the PCs in your shop. Its no use having cds in the shop if they are nore than likely to just leave windows on the computer. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Shane Fagan (shanepatrickfagan) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 10:45:01 -0000 Message-Id: <20080905104501.7018.94020.malone@palladium.canonical.com> But you still sell windows because its pre-installed by default on the PCs in your shop. Its no use having cds in the shop if they are More than likely to just leave windows on the computer. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?TWFydGluIEJvxb5pxI0gKG1hcnRpbi1ib3ppYyk=?= Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:16:03 -0000 Message-Id: <20080905121604.20473.69750.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Hm, I agree. Maybe I was a bit too enthusiastic about getting Ubuntu into a shop. Still, many of HP and Lenovos come preinstalled with FreeDOS, and I give our customers a tour of those laptops with Ubuntu Live CD (even those with Windows, because of EULA). Could this be considered a workaround? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Paul Flint (flint) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:20:50 -0000 Message-Id: Greetings fellow bugtrackers, I have always enjoyed the nature of this list, and it is with the deepest=20 regret that I must post what I believe to be a seminal problem. Before I=20 post this issue I would review some of the advantages of Ubuntu Linux. 1. It is very easy to install, 2. It is very flexible and customizable, 3. Cost of ownership and support is reasonable. Many more advantages exist, so I thought to study this product, become=20 expert with it, and support myself by supporting this product. After 4 years in this activity I am now destitute, and unable to make my=20 financial obligations. In my desperation to make Ubuntu work, I considered the U.S. Federal=20 market, which, while a small market now, could if properly supported=20 sustain me, my family and maybe others. The following proposal was sent,=20 last month for the third time. ######################## Begin Insert ######################## From flint@flint.com Sat Aug 23 06:43:31 2008 Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 06:43:31 -0400 (EDT) From: flint@flint.com To: Mark Shuttleworth , andrew.rodaway@canonical.com Cc: steve.george@canonical.com, "bholland22@netzero.net" , Matt Zimmerman Subject: Ubuntu U.S. Federal Marketing Project Dear Mark, First, let me welcome Andrew Roadway to this discussion. Matt Zimmerman informs me that Andrew is the Canonical Director of Marketing, and I presume, would be the lead in this or any other marketing proposal. In the past few months I have discussed with many of you the possibility of establishing a U.S. Federal Marketing force for the purpose of vending Ubuntu to U.S. Government (USG) agencies. I believe that the features of such an organization would be as follows: All USG organizations must adhere to the Federal Acquisition Regulations. This requires that USG sites purchase software support licensees. This requirement specifically includes Free and Open Source (FOS) products. A designated agency of the U.S. Government called the General Services Administration (GSA) strictly governs USG purchasing activity. GSA regulations, under certain conditions, give preferential treatment to U.S. Owned Businesses, Small Disadvantaged Businesses (SDB) and Veteran Owned Businesses. The Buy American and Small Disadvantaged Veterans Owned Business preferences are where I would like to base a proposal. I believe, that with the cooperation and exclusive endorsement of the Canonical Corporation, distribution to the U.S. Federal Government, while a rare occurrence now, is ripe for long term profit. WHAT WE INTEND TO DO: Establish a Small Disadvantaged Veteran Owned Business (SDVOB) with a GSA schedule for purchase of Canonical Support Licensees. We expect to deliver a profit margin of eighty (80) percent of this income stream back to Canonical. Equip an office with U.S. nationals and Veterans trained at the Canonical Montreal facility to offer Buy American Act compliant support service. WHAT WE NEED TO PROCEED: We need to establish a marketing agreement with Canonical. This would need to include a time period during which this enterprise would enjoy exclusive U.S. Government marketing rights. I am convinced with this agreement in place, no other resources would be required to make this a profitable project. WHAT TO EXPECT: The Administration changes set to occur in Washington in 150 days will open doors to a wider range of operating software systems being deployed by disparate Federal agencies. A new Administration invariably creates a climate where there is greater receptivity to innovative products. As the Federal Agency workforce turnover increases, particularly in IT divisions, now is the time to market the "superior alternative" of the Ubuntu product. Simply put, with proper GSA compliant support contracts available, the new generation of IT professionals inside the Beltway will embrace and deploy open source operating systems, particularly Ubuntu. Being positioned by a sales agent for U.S. Federal sales at this time costs Canonical nothing, and in the future can lead to considerable profit. I have established a private wiki at http://docbox.flint.com:8081/uusg to continue work on this idea. You will find this proposal posted there along with the latest developments as they occur. I look forward to our collective mutual gain, the opportunity to do well by doing good, and I thank you for your time. Kindest Regards, Paul Flint /************************************ Based upon email reliability concerns, please send an acknowledgment in response to this note. Paul Flint Barre Open Systems Institute 17 Averill Street Barre, VT 05641 http://www.bosivt.org http://www.flint.com/home skype: flintinfotech Work: (202) 537-0480 Fax: (703) 852-7089 Consilium gratuitum .~. valet /V\ quanti /( )\ numerantur ^^-^^ ######################## End Insert ######################## I have never received a response to this business proposal from anyone at=20 Cannonical. The sadest thing here is that I really believe that Ubuntu=20 Linux will succeed, I just wanted to be a boat rising in this tide. Needless to say, that lack of dedicated marketing to large governmental=20 organizations could be a problem, I know not. Mostly I worry about how I=20 am going to heat, eat and pay the mortage. So... If there is anyone out there that needs remote adminstration, consulting,=20 or development services, I would be happy to assist for reasonable=20 compensation, after 4 long years of trying I know there is no Linux work=20 for me here in Vermont, America is in economic meltdown, and I am now deep = in debt. Please find my resume at: http://www.flint.com/flint Thanks in advance and... Kindest Regards, Paul Flint /************************************ Based upon email reliability concerns, please send an acknowledgment in response to this note. Paul Flint Barre Open Systems Institute 17 Averill Street Barre, VT 05641 http://www.bosivt.org http://www.flint.com/home skype: flintinfotech Work: (202) 537-0480 Fax: (703) 852-7089 Consilium gratuitum .~. valet /V\ quanti /( )\ numerantur ^^-^^ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Harsh Singh (hisingh1) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 23:12:34 -0000 Message-Id: <7da17e8a0809051612m34cc13eam3ff9144fe7106efb@mail.gmail.com> http://www.microsplot.com/news/2007/12/anything_speechless_100_things_peopl= e_are_really_saying_about_windows_vista Just wanted to point out the 'awesomeness of vista' NOT! On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 4:05 AM, nulled wrote: > This bug will be chipped away in time. Launchpad itself is the perfect, > or at least on the right track, to unify bugzillas and other bug > trackers. This is key as some bugs are fixed in upstream but in down > stream like in Ubuntu itself. > > Ubuntu will also have a fighting chance at smashing this bug but > integrating with MS as much as possible. Things like WINE and SAMBA and > ability to join MS Active Directory Domain servers. > > In a homiogenous computer environment, eventually the more secure and > best software will win and become a mono-os culture of linux distros, > including SuSE, Madriva, Redhat and more or any linux distro that wishes > to subscribe. > > The fact, Ubuntu is able to satisfy the non-free drivers existing in > seperate repositories allow PRO CHOICE if you want to for instance > instann the nv driver or the nvidia binary driver as a restricted > driver. Again, satisfies both parties. You have to be able to play music > and movies, using the current massive market for them. In time nvidia > will open source as is evident with Intel and many more wireless and nic > drivers have opened up.... in due time,until then the restricted drivers > work around is only logical. > > Mark Shuttle worth is well rounded, highly successful already, > passionate and has money to fund the project where needed. He also knows > how to speak well and fast and hit all the right key points by deriving > from debian. And probably the nail in the deal is that Ubuntu does NOT > have two licences, like openSUSE, Fedora, Ubuntu is Ubuntu and will > always be free. Yet, is combined. In other words, no duel licences BS. > this is very cool. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a member of Clubuntu > team, which is a bug assignee. > > Status in Clubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Confirmed > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: a-r-k-i-b-o-t-t (arkibott-ray) Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2008 11:40:12 -0000 Message-Id: <20080906114012.23805.44968.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> How many ubuntu variants do we have now? .. a lot? too many? Funny how intel now supports moblin and on the other hand shows so much lov= e for solaris... too much fragmentation in the efforts.. The ms market share only sticks as long as the hardware vendors keep the oem bundling with every ms os product. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Howard Teng (trumpet-205-deactivatedaccount) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 03:51:40 -0000 Message-Id: <20080910035140.3122.68099.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Well, most of the time Microsoft pays these software programmers so that they write Windows only programs. Trumpet-205 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jonathan Jesse (jjesse) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:50:33 -0000 Message-Id: really? microsoft pays programmers to only write windows programs? I know a lot of people who program for the windows environmnet during their free time and they don't get any money from MS to onlyp program on MS products. Could it be that people actually program/work on what they know? Or that some people would actually prefer to code on MS? Seriously? On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 11:51 PM, Howard Teng wrote: > Well, most of the time Microsoft pays these software programmers so that > they write Windows only programs. > > Trumpet-205 > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ichthux > Developers, which is subscribed to Ichthux. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Shane Fagan (shanepatrickfagan) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 04:14:47 -0000 Message-Id: <20080914041447.18346.25420.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Not really its more about profit. More people use windows so in turn people= want to ride along on the train to hell for profit.=20 >Well, most of the time Microsoft pays these software programmers so that t= hey write Windows only programs And I know from personal experience that they teach programming in visual b= asic in some colleges only because windows is popular. This is a quote from= my programming lecturer=20 "In a perfect world we all would use Linux but the world isnt perfect" (at = least not yet) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Harsh Singh (hisingh1) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 22:52:11 -0000 Message-Id: <7da17e8a0809141552t71bf615ye317ffd485b53d55@mail.gmail.com> I hear many people on IRC saying Ubuntu is too simple. Then they offer their choice of linux! I think that the whole confusion lies in the point where people dont know what linux is! Schools dont teach it, no one really tells you what linux is! The only way one can find out about linux is by advertising [mac pc linux] but these are only on the web and not on TV. Another way people find out about linux is by Stumbling and Diggs, Social Networking plays a key role in advertising! So if we want a stronger knowledge of linux, we need to make pages that romote linux more populat [give a thums up, or digg it]! To further this notion of advertising, we need a Team that does solely this! We need to let the world know what Ubuntu is! Although I agree that a transition from a windows/mac environment to a linux/unix environment is not easy. It is not hard! But with all this advertising , a sole question remails in my mind, Why? Why do we want to extend our community and include people that dont know how to use a computer? All we will get are more problems and more complaints! If the world becomes 'perfect' [see above to the quote on the perfect world], and every one uses Ubuntu, then what?! We wont rely on a crappy os [vista] nor will we fear microsoft/apple spying on us, but is that all we accomplish? Although i am going against my self from trhe first part, i believe that the ad's are out there, they bring in fairly advanced users, and people that can get support from friends/collegues, they bring in compiz enthusiasts that want to make an awesome user interface! We dont need people that cant determine hardware from software! And if we are targeting those people, a sole question remains on my mind, WHY?! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: HEWAG2008 (hwagner) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 00:24:13 -0000 Message-Id: <20080915002413.29717.8083.malone@palladium.canonical.com> What an old man think: The Idea UBUNTU is so great that only a innocent child could grasp it. Similar to WIKIPEDIA in a other domain these two projects are fighted, deni= grated untradesmanlike a.s.o. by those who only think business. Since I use computers first with DOS V.3;4;5;6; then windows MS became a c= olossus Bug? Not better a worldwide scandal? Even BG incline to UBUNTU with his recent donation. To learn as Swiss at the end of my life that "Pestalozzis" exists ...that b= eats me!!! But it is well to know that and I thank you. I will try as soon as possible to bifurcate on UBUNTU. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: sshlyk (sshlyk) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:19:40 -0000 Message-Id: <20080915161941.24754.28612.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Spreading the Ubuntu power among my friends Keep your work up, guys! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: R.Lakshmi Narasimhan (rlaknar) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:00:32 -0000 Message-Id: <20080916170033.869.32969.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> I will accept this as a bug for 99%.I have suggested my known and dear ones to switch to Linux orientated OS, and softwares.But even most of the people think that Linux is hard to use and scaring to learn new OS as they were in Microsoft.We have to break this by providing much more user friendly features than Microsoft.Frankly speaking i do not accept that Windows is user friendly as the users are set to go in fixed path and no provision for changing the things.In this case, Ubuntu and other Linux teams are doing a great job.But the pitfall i found in Linux is more users of Linux do not know about development of Linux systems.If it is cleared, certainly there will be no wonder for innovations all the time. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Shane Fagan (shanepatrickfagan) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:09:12 -0000 Message-Id: <20080918120913.31182.38062.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I have started a quest, to find either a computer preloaded with Ubuntu or a computer with no os to install Ubuntu on. The first place to start was obviously Dell because they have computers with Ubuntu preloaded and computers with freedos. The page doesnt exist. I went on Dell chat here is the conversation I had with the sales guy. "Me: I want a computer with either ubuntu preloaded or without an os instal= led Dell Sales Guy: Are you interested in desktop or laptop Me:laptop Dell Sales Guy: Pushes page, http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/topics/topic= .aspx/emea/segments/gen/client/en/ubuntu_landing?c=3Duk&cs=3Dukdhs1&l=3Den&= s=3Ddhs&~ck=3Dmn Could you kindly click the link go through the specifications while I stay = online now and guide you further and also clarify your questions (if any). Me: But the problem im having is that option isnt available in ireland Dell Sales Guy: Am afraid we do not offer Linux in Ireland Me: But why not? Dell Sales Guy: It is not available in Ireland Me: But can I get a laptop with no os or freedos or anything other than hav= ing to pay for a product that I dont want or need. I just dont want vista o= r xp. Dell Sales Guy: Am afraid that is not possible Me: Then can I get a refund if I return the copy of vista supplied with the= new computer Dell Sales Guy: Am afraid no Me: Can you look at an article about this issue? http://www.linux.com/artic= les/59381 Dell Sales Guy: We do not have any information as such Me: Can you get me some one who might be able to help me Dell Sales Guy: You can check with the customer care team on 1-850-964-112 Me: I will try them then Dell Sales Guy: Thank you, may I go ahead and suspend the chat session now?" My quest continues... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: cybernoid (marciocastro) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 01:03:30 -0000 Message-Id: <20080925010330.28499.24809.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> From Portugal - Yes - That's true, I even have friends-coders that uses only Winblows. I can tell you: WORK and say HOW! I can do everything in UBUNTU except do certains operations with CF CARDS r= elated to AMIGA. I need to do that with WINUAE. (I know I can do with E-UAE= but it's not easy...) Google 'INCA SUMER' - at the end I express - made in Linux. You all should do that. Work and say HOW! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Fran McLoughlin (mcloughf) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 06:21:34 -0000 Message-Id: <20080925062135.28499.99041.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I have been working with computers for upwards of 40 years and regard them and their operating systems as a hobby and a career. In reading through most of the Bug#1 posts I seem to have missed what to me is the most important point of the issue. It is one of perception. Someone (not me) said that "Perception is reality" - not sue who, but they were correct. Outside of the Linux community I believe there is a huge perception gap between what Linux is and what it does. I believe the only way to correct this is to deal with the perception. Most people vote with their wallet. If Linux is to replace Windows in the marketplace then the buyer must be given a clear message as to why (or why not...) to go with Linux. It is correct to offer the buyer a choice but I feel that the buyer would not have enough information to make an informed decision. Linux needs a place in buyer mindspace and it is just not there. Think back to the days of Visicalc. The buyer would totally want to the get the software for his or her business. The next question is what does it need to run it on. Answer: Apple Plus (or whatever...). The application software drove the hardware... Note I said _application_ software. Now its the OS that drives the hardware. Do you not see that whining about Vista not running well on existing hard is short sighted. It was not MEANT to run on existing hardware. It was meant to drive the hardware replacement / upgrade channel. I have vacillated between Vista, XP and Linux for the past few months as I feel it is time to take a decision. There are applications that run only on Windows machines that I am not prepared to abandon in favour of a Linux alternative. Linux to me is compelling but still falls short on getting me to convert over 100%. Right now my question is whether to run Linux in a vmware workspace on the Windows machine, or XP on a linux host. I'm not there yet on this. Judging the dedication and effort that is being put into Linux by the community - I feel that it should be compensated in a meaningful and appropriate way. GPL may be all fine and dandy but coders have to eat - do they not? I believe buyers should be given an opportunity to vote with their wallet and reward achievement accordingly. I am not talking about the huge budget MS uses to cram unfininshed software into the retail channel - but the buying public has become more informed about consumer choices and able to recognise value and suitability of purpose in their purchases. The games arena is one of the sorest deficiencies in the Linux camp and unfortunately this arena is one that determines a majority of buyer choice - will it run my games... Most of us have got our start in computers running computer games, then maybe programming, etc, etc. Game programming should be developed on an agnostic level - removed from the hardware level and dependencies. Let the operating system provide the linkage for the human interface. If this could happen then buyers would vote for the OS that most meets their needs and the games compatibility question would disappear. I HAVE seen advertised systems with Linux as the OS here in Canada - advertised by Tiger Direct - so it is not rare. Right now I'm battling Ubuntu 8.04 and 8.10 and issues with Compiz - with varying success. My strategy now is to wait out the known issues until they are resolved... While XP remains in my back pocket for my "have to get one with it" stuff. Fran McLoughlin --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Fran McLoughlin (mcloughf) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 03:14:00 -0000 Message-Id: <20080927031400.14662.77131.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Here we go - Tiger Direct Canada doing it's bit to endorse Linux... I know its not much but here is a company willing to commit... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 03:26:39 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0809262026j30454638y35c569f04bf4626b@mail.gmail.com> Hola Fran, actually, it;s a big deal, support and service with Linux is very intense. Allen On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 11:14 PM, Fran McLoughlin wrote: > Here we go - Tiger Direct Canada doing it's bit to endorse Linux... > I know its not much but here is a company willing to commit... > > > > ** Attachment added: "Linux.gif" > http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17993463/Linux.gif > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "kde-systemsettings" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Invalid > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --=20 http://picasaweb.google.com/allenggraham/Mazatlan# --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Harsh Singh (hisingh1) Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 11:32:02 -0000 Message-Id: <7da17e8a0810060432t7307fbbeuce92515a7a74817@mail.gmail.com> I would like to wish happy birthday to Linux. 17 years of awesomeness! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Crazyness (crazyness) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 18:11:36 -0000 Message-Id: <20081011181137.8613.6746.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> This bug is 100% reproducible in small town Deland, Florida, USA. There are= about 5 computer stores that i know of and in the 4 I've been in, there is= no mention of Linux, let alone Ubuntu. This is extremely dangerous. One st= ore even has giant Windows Vista and Apple stickers on their display window= s, implying they have "All the greatest in OS software". Yet no Tux, BSD or= Ubuntu logo. There was a mention that some computers in Wal-Mart chain store will ship w= ith gOS as their default OS, but I failed to see any of them. No one knew about Linux, but I gnu the whole time. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: deletarus (brandonbromiley) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 23:21:38 -0000 Message-Id: <20081015232138.28583.37895.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Unfortunately we are all well aware of this bug. As most of you probably already know, it is quite easy to convert anyone to Linux, simply tell them there are no viruses, and install it on their computer, they instantly feel at home once you show them how to install software. The true problem is lack of hardware support. Imagine the market share Linux would have if all hardware was supported. Imagine how soon that could take place if hardware vendors would provide linux drivers. (and I don't even care if they are open source, just give us some drivers!). Imagine if there were better interoperability between Linux distributions and a unified goal in mind, we could all work to develop a unified Linux instead of debating which variant is best. Ah... if only... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Botscharow (jbotscharow) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 03:14:34 -0000 Message-Id: One Linux to rule them all! And it would possibly lead to more and better hardware ssupport as well. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "deletarus" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 6:21 PM Subject: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share Imagine if there were better interoperability between Linux distributions and a unified goal in mind, we could all work to develop a unified Linux instead of debating which variant is best. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Stephan van Ingen (stephanvaningen) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 06:35:35 -0000 Message-Id: word 2008/10/16 deletarus > Unfortunately we are all well aware of this bug. > > As most of you probably already know, it is quite easy to convert anyone > to Linux, simply tell them there are no viruses, and install it on their > computer, they instantly feel at home once you show them how to install > software. > > The true problem is lack of hardware support. Imagine the market share > Linux would have if all hardware was supported. Imagine how soon that > could take place if hardware vendors would provide linux drivers. (and I > don't even care if they are open source, just give us some drivers!). > > Imagine if there were better interoperability between Linux > distributions and a unified goal in mind, we could all work to develop a > unified Linux instead of debating which variant is best. > > Ah... if only... > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: X3 (x3lectric) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 07:20:57 -0000 Message-Id: <20081016072057.2316.84001.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I agree totally that Microsoft leads the OS market simply because unfortunatly of 3 main and very importatnt facts! 1) Hardware support 2) Great sofware that though commercial is not developed for Linux and this should be. Interopeability 3) Rubbish email support Cant import Windows live mail account .iaf format into Linux. setting up email is a pita in linux sloppy really. Overall I have to agree its not just a case of building machines with hardware that UBUNTU supports is a question of widespread development of drivers that support the state of the art hardware like SLI mostly in laptops and for those that are gamers well thge development of games that can be just installed in linux like thy would in windows, teh same for sofware like Photoshop, Autocad, Revit, Microstation, 3dsMAX, SAP, EPOS and on to other industry standards software... That were this to happen I tell you that the marriage inbetween Open source free OS and paid/commercial sofware professionals use would be more appealing for companies to make a switch because either way you look at it your saving a huge amount of money in licensing. no retraining on similar packages and instant more organised productivity and efficiency. The Future of Linux OR UBUNTU in this case is to embrace the standard industry standards that professionals are used too in other ares and maybe then gradually they would give the opensource replacements a try and learn as they go suggesting to companies a use it cause its free its not allways the most appealing approach. Though it makes a great case. People moan about Microsoft rubbish, resource hogging OS that really in the= end ends up winning because widespread hardware support on every main stre= am machine is extremely important I cant use a web cam in linuc x or a scanner at home without using WINE eh nice as that is it still looks= sloppy or similar ,messengers are not Video Orientaded like 1 messenger to= rule them all Pidgin fo e.g. where it to support a multi Video Chat via th= e MSN network or its own free protocols man oh man.=20 I praize Linux and the values the ideals of the people that put so much effort into making UBUNTU stand well out and be the most viable distro. I also agree that too many distros that really each try to offer something diffrerent and then people moan about the 50 flavours of Vista eh! Though some education in differences that exist in between Linux and windows I have to say that personally I live with triple boot platforms because each has a unique feature that I like and prefer over the other. but fix these 3 issue and Microsoft will be Broke in no time... And I would switch my whole network to Linux and my works network and many other companies would follow suit. So heres the question how to get commercial developers to develop drivers and sofware for Linux instead. more so that the few that already do... And all with a nice GUI not everyone is a linux Buff people are afraid of a dos prompt never mind being afraid of so much more powerfull Linux Console. Openoffice support on IRC is a joke... jst thought I throw that in. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: ^rooker (rooker) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 09:24:55 -0000 Message-Id: <20081016092455.2316.47647.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Just wanted to add 3 things: 1) Yesterday I was surprised to find out that "webplanetcomputer.com" sells= computers with Ubuntu Hardy preinstalled on them. Unfortunately, they don'= t mention this *at all* on their website. You can't even select it as OS if= you want to - but if you select "none" you get Ubuntu. To be optimized, but still: going in the right direction! 2) Hardware support: Yes. This indeed sucks, but it's not a problem of Free Software (we all kno= w that). The more people use Free Software, the more vendors will notice an= d sooner or later will have to deal with supporting it. 3) @X3: There are a few things I can't agree with you, but I think we're still on t= he same page so let's just keep it short: Endorcing proprietary formats and applications (as you suggest), would not = really make Linux better. In fact, it would make it worse, because you'd te= ar all the negative aspects of closed-n-proprietary development into our en= vironment.=20 It might seem like a boost for a moment, but not on the long run. Free Software *is* the superior development method with "win-win" for everyone (if done right). Proprietary is not an option - it *is* the problem (unfortunately). --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Kilian Muster (bunglemeister) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 08:28:15 -0000 Message-Id: <20081017082816.26084.54294.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> In Japan it's even worse, the Aspire One available in the US with Windows XP or Linux (albeit a Fedora based distribution) is only available with Windows XP in Japan. Same with the MSI wind (which comes either with XP or SuSE in the US). AFAIK Canonical doesn't even have a representative in Japan, all I can see on the ubuntulinux.jp site are references to forums and the community, which I think is a big mistake. The thing is the current situation is really not because people want Windows. The market share of the Mac is high in Japan, however most people just don't know that something beyond Windows exists, let alone have ever heard of Open Source. It's all about media penetration for one (getting your name out there) and getting your foot into the doors of BicCamera, Yodobashi Camera, Sakuraya and all the other giant electronics chain stores. I think since it's so fashionable to have your own branded Store nowadays (Apple Store, Disney Store, you name it), I'd love to see an Ubuntu Store in Shibuya. Seriously. That also would give Ubuntu immediate brand appeal. And the whole "ubuntu"-spirit is surely something that the Japanese would totally get, because they tick in a similar way. They are very community driven, they care for their neighbour etc. If you give people the chance to get a hands-on experience they'll get it, I'm sure. And Japanese are curious about anything seemingly new and different in general. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Evan Buswell (ebuswell) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 01:00:34 -0000 Message-Id: <20081019010035.26608.98815.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I have a friend who is a very bright but nontechnical user. She is scared of Windows update because it occasionally very slightly alters the way her computer works. She consequently didn't install any updates until I pointed out that in addition to these very slight tweaks, it also theoretically would make her computer stop misbehaving. In MS- Land, that's only theory, and the frustration makes her care very little about making any changes at all. She knows from experience that no change to her computer has actually been for the better. But here, we have the potential to turn that theoretical improved reliability into actual improved reliability. This is not a usual opinion, but I think the single biggest draw we can ever have for regular users is Stability and Predictability. 5 years ago, no one was mentioning that because (1) nothing ever crashed, and (2) we practiced specification- / documentation-driven programming. However, in our rush to beat MS, this "nothing ever crashed" has degraded to an "almost nothing ever crashes"; the specification driven programming has degraded into a innovate-innovate-innovate model. We need to hold on to our roots. My point is: don't lose sight of our strengths in trying to work on our weaknesses. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Paul Flint (flint) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 01:42:21 -0000 Message-Id: Dear Evan, AMEN! Regards, Flint On Sun, 19 Oct 2008, Evan wrote: > Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 01:00:34 -0000 > From: Evan > Reply-To: Bug 1 <1@bugs.launchpad.net> > To: flint@flint.com > Subject: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > I have a friend who is a very bright but nontechnical user. She is > scared of Windows update because it occasionally very slightly alters > the way her computer works. She consequently didn't install any updates > until I pointed out that in addition to these very slight tweaks, it > also theoretically would make her computer stop misbehaving. In MS- > Land, that's only theory, and the frustration makes her care very little > about making any changes at all. She knows from experience that no > change to her computer has actually been for the better. But here, we > have the potential to turn that theoretical improved reliability into > actual improved reliability. > > This is not a usual opinion, but I think the single biggest draw we can > ever have for regular users is Stability and Predictability. 5 years > ago, no one was mentioning that because (1) nothing ever crashed, and > (2) we practiced specification- / documentation-driven programming. > However, in our rush to beat MS, this "nothing ever crashed" has > degraded to an "almost nothing ever crashes"; the specification driven > programming has degraded into a innovate-innovate-innovate model. We > need to hold on to our roots. > > My point is: don't lose sight of our strengths in trying to work on our > weaknesses. > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > Kindest Regards, Paul Flint (802) 479-2360 /************************************ Based upon email reliability concerns, please send an acknowledgment in response to this note. Paul Flint Barre Open Systems Institute 17 Averill Street Barre, VT 05641 http://www.bosivt.org http://www.flint.com/home skype: flintinfotech Work: (202) 537-0480 Fax: (703) 852-7089 Consilium gratuitum .~. valet /V\ quanti /( )\ numerantur ^^-^^ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: traxtermaster (jasonmougeot) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:17:31 -0000 Message-Id: <20081019151731.22716.59836.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Here in canada too all the big store are selling Microsoft pre-installed computers with multiple 15days trial of anti-virus, office and games. With horrible memory management 1.2gb of ram used idle. When you ask them if they have any open source application or offering any open source application is like insult to them. they know the software are available but they don't make money over it. their internal techs are mostly gamers fixing computers and they pray to the windows god for more games never looks at the alternatives. people are addicted to paid software to a point they pirate them. I started my own computer service company and its 50% of my business is to promote and install open-source softwares. the only bad side to this i don't go back to clean their PC's for Viruses and Spyware. but on the other hand they tell their friends how Ubuntu is a great system and an awesome community. my brother used to have a celeron 1.2ghz and called my every 2 days because is windows had viruses and spyware and was freezing up and on and on, my brother is not computer inclined and he's been running Ubuntu since 7.04 came out. I never had to go back because his computer crashed sinced april 2007. I want Thank the Ubuntu community as they help me putting it out with free cd's to share with costumer's friend. I'm working hard on that bug! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Nonconventionally Creative (br-longbons) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 19:52:30 -0000 Message-Id: <20081019195231.26608.15098.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I do believe I have found the source for the patch, but I'm not sure how to= compile it: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/15/1.html http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/15/2.html http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/15/15.html The key is not to directly attack Microsoft, but to sue the companies that = grant Microsoft an illegal monopoly on the OS that runs on their hardware. For example, the Dell legal policies, found at=20 http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/policy/en/policy?c=3Dus&l=3D= en&s=3Dgen&~section=3D010#total state "Application software and operating systems that have been installed = by Dell may be returned only if installed on a returnable system, and only = if you return that system within the applicable return period." which is in direct contradiction to the Microsoft EULA, which states that t= he Microsoft product (which is an entirely separate product from the Dell c= omputer hardware) may be returned for a full refund. I am certain other hardware-sellers can be caught similarly. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Harsh Singh (hisingh1) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 22:55:37 -0000 Message-Id: <7da17e8a0810191555r178a75a7i71250041d9fffc5c@mail.gmail.com> One thing that i would like to emphasize is advertising. If you search windows in google you will get about *1,240,000,000 results. *BUT if you search linux, you will get *469,000,000 results.* Microsoft has more than double of linux webpages. APPLE has *513,000,000 results!* Key point i want to say is this, we need more pages on linux and ubuntu as ubuntu gets only *87,200,000 results. *We need to make more webpages that advertise linux! A lot of people then say that they dont want to spend the money on a website, but that is rediculous! There are so many free web hosts out there, my favorite being http://www.000webhost.com/83228.html and it is extreamly simple to make a wordpress blog that there is no point that we are still lacking on websites. Lets tie apple before tackeling windows. And apple doesnot even advertise it self for its servers! All in all, make a website about linux! Make it a tutorial, a review, a blog, or anything that talks bout it. Then, make sure google indexes it, and make the keyword computer,linux,ubuntu,distrobution,review ... This way, when ppl are surfing the web they will see more ubuntu/linux stuff, they will see how easy it is, and they will switch! ADVERTISING IS KEY, and the web is the way to go. That is why microsoft is still fighting with apple in the mac vs PC ads even though 80% of the world uses windows! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: traxtermaster (jasonmougeot) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 03:14:18 -0000 Message-Id: <20081020031419.22716.55325.malone@palladium.canonical.com> This is my website Index page http://jasonmougeot.isa-geek.net/ Opensource section http://jasonmougeot.isa-geek.net/ops.html My server is running only open source software and also the network with dd-wrt OS server has SSH SFTP SQL HTTP IRC SMPT POP SSL(to be configured) PHP ect and if you get the server spy in fire fox you will notice apache web server is 70% the web server on the net. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: traxtermaster (jasonmougeot) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 03:20:13 -0000 Message-Id: <20081020032014.26475.36356.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> forgot to mention the server apps=20 Zencart online store=20 phpBB3 (Forum app) OSticket(ticket tracking system) http://jasonmougeot.isa-geek.net/support (= work in progress) theres is apps that does the same thing for big $$$ but OS is forgotten or unadvertised. when i tell a customer i did all that with application that didn't cost anything, they just ask why we don't know its available. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Harsh Singh (hisingh1) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 04:54:17 -0000 Message-Id: <7da17e8a0810192154m6b79c743h887bb6ebcc485e16@mail.gmail.com> I agree that open source is the way to go. I totally love how one can make free websites without much knowledge how, like drupal phpBB3 wordpress and many others but what traxtermaster said brings up my previous point. Many people dont know that they can make amazing sites with little to no knowledge of how a webserver works or how the site creating utility works. We should spread the word with these utilities! One can easliy get a free domain from co.cc and or get a free subdomain, they can host at http://www.000webhost.com/83228.html or use http://www.free-webhosts.com/power-search.php to find one, then they can use a auto installer [if provided] to make a amazing website! Then they can add ubuntu/linux related content and put it on google! This will raise awareness of the viewers. Also, if every unix/linux user starts to bookmark/digg/technocrat/delicios/social network [facebook]/stumbleupon/twitter it then they can help linux grow. BUT, it is also immportant to load usefull content! One should not make a website without content, that will only defame linux. Instead, they should make content in their favorite editer and then start the site. Another thing they shoud try to include is tips for how one can easily adapt from windows to linux. For ex. use oppenoffice,zoho.com,mozilla firefox and vlc in windows before transition. Advertise opensource and cross platform stuff so the transition is smooth. This is what must happen before linux can become a real competition to major corperations like windows! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Marcel (marcel-vd-berg) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:55:25 -0000 Message-Id: <20081021145525.11330.63931.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I agree with the post from Nonconventionally Creative on 2008-10-19 > I do believe I have found the source for the patch, but I'm not sure how = to compile it: > http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/15/1.html > http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/15/2.html > http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/15/15.html Compiling the source in the US could be the most difficult task. For we all= know the US has many "conflicts of interests"! Remember "The Iron Triangle and the Carlyle Group"? So the only long lasting patch should be a global patch. Here in Europe we are blessed with Neeli Smit Kroes from the European Commission, but this patch won't make the difference to solve this world wide bug! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4572799.stm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Microsoft_antitrust_case http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6998300.stm --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tralalalala (tralalalala) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:17:54 -0000 Message-Id: <20081021191754.2115.86146.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> This bug is really annoying. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jamie Nadeau (james2432) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 14:41:05 -0000 Message-Id: <20081023144105.10871.58768.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> 1. I lol'd because it is true 2. Free software ftw ^_^ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: traxtermaster (jasonmougeot) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 02:03:39 -0000 Message-Id: <20081024020339.10871.66923.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Oh by the way facebook is running Apache/1.3.41.fb1 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Vadim Peretokin (vperetokin) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 08:23:12 -0000 Message-Id: <6995ca080810240123w69dfd260v53d421e6a42608b5@mail.gmail.com> I wouldn't doubt that, since Facebook maintains an apache mirror: http://apache.mirror.facebook.com/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: manishmahabir (manishmahabir) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 06:41:32 -0000 Message-Id: <20081026064133.19342.11767.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Today Ubuntu has reached a stage where it can successfully replace windows = in home as well as office desktops. Actually many people are now switching to ubuntu or are now ready to give i= t a try. As known to linux community, many hardware vendors have kept their hardware closed source.As a result the open source community has been unable to provide adequate support for the hardware. usually the hardware we buy has a logo 'certified for windows vista', and similarly for xp.people never know whether it is open or closed hardware or how well the hardware is supported under ubuntu. i know that there are websites which contain a list of hardware supported under ubuntu. it would be nice to have a tool for windows which could gather the data about the hardware connected to pc (similar to hardware testing in ubuntu). Based on the data it should generate a friendly report about the current status of support for the available hardware,specially graphics card or wireless card.It would help to prevent any post installation blues. An additional feature which could suggest the linux counterparts of installed windows applications would be a killer addition. It would go a long way in helping average user to switvh to ubuntu! Brainstorm idea: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/14800/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 15:04:19 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0810260804v77d70483ga772776dc57cd5bd@mail.gmail.com> Hi "manishmahabir", excellent suggestion ! At this time the same a similiar approach can be used by KNOPPIX , live cd, , and watch as it loads. Allen On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 2:41 AM, manishmahabir wro= te: > Today Ubuntu has reached a stage where it can successfully replace windows > in home as well as office desktops. > Actually many people are now switching to ubuntu or are now ready to give > it a try. > > As known to linux community, many hardware vendors have kept their > hardware closed source.As a result the open source community has been > unable to provide adequate support for the hardware. > > usually the hardware we buy has a logo 'certified for windows vista', > and similarly for xp.people never know whether it is open or closed > hardware or how well the hardware is supported under ubuntu. > > i know that there are websites which contain a list of hardware > supported under ubuntu. > > it would be nice to have a tool for windows which could gather the data > about the hardware connected to pc (similar to hardware testing in > ubuntu). Based on the data it should generate a friendly report about > the current status of support for the available hardware,specially > graphics card or wireless card.It would help to prevent any post > installation blues. > > An additional feature which could suggest the linux counterparts of > installed windows applications would be a killer addition. > > It would go a long way in helping average user to switvh to ubuntu! > > Brainstorm idea: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/14800/ > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: New > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --=20 If you're considering a Mexican vacation, look at the exchange rate from Canadian $$ to Mex $$(pesos) by going here: http://www.xe.com/ict/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Philip Ganchev (philip-cs) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 03:31:42 -0000 Message-Id: <20081028033142.4006.64021.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> I think the bug is incorrectly stated in the bug report. It does not matter if Microsoft, or Apple or Google or another large company's products have the majority "market share". The bug is that most of the software used is not free (libre) software. This can be broken down into several smaller bugs: (1) Not enough people know about the existence of free software; (2) People believe free software is buggy, inconvenient, hard to use, does not have the particular features they need, does not work with the file formats they may need to use, or with the hardware they have. In many cases they are right. (3) People don't understand why free software was important --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: manishmahabir (manishmahabir) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 07:34:34 -0000 Message-Id: <20081028073434.12623.62347.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Hi 'Allen Graham' thanks for your appreciation. as tuxoid has rightly commented on the brainstorm idea... "The thing with a Live CD is that it is manual in terms of testing hardware. The user has to test everything in their system, including, all USB devices, all Bluetooth devices, advanced video card features, if needed. Whereas, with an automated testing program, the user can be assured that every piece of their hardware can be testing thoroughly, and, unlike a Live CD, the hardware can be tested quickly. If the program was capable of providing enough information, the user would not need a Live CD to test. The matter of a testing utility, is a matter of speeding up the testing process. " --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Risto H. Kurppa (risto.kurppa) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 10:57:10 -0000 Message-Id: <20081030105711.26642.27861.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Some progress here: Ubuntu's rising revenue makes a small dent in Microsoft http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10076035-16.html --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Harsh Singh (hisingh1) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:41:42 -0000 Message-Id: <7da17e8a0810300641s1710e91dp77e817552f077707@mail.gmail.com> oh my god! The resemblance between windows 7 and kde is uncanny! http://www.daniweb.com/blogs/entry3433.html |-> http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/20081028/ap_on_hi_te/tec_microsoft http://windows7news.com/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Brad Bellomo (bvbellomo) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 03:10:44 -0000 Message-Id: <20081101031046.25404.98687.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Microsoft has released a potential fix for this bug. They are calling it Vista. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Botscharow (jbotscharow) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 09:40:48 -0000 Message-Id: <4EF8D9359D864F34B07079BD7BD0F07D@johnPC> I have a couble boot system - Vista and Ubnutu Hard Heron. I used to have a= =20 double boot with XP and Gutsy Gorilla. I much prefer the newer system, not = so much because heron is that much better than Gorilla, but because I like = Vista so much better than XP It has the same kind of feel that Ubuntu does,= =20 although Vista still treats me like Iam incapable of making the right=20 decision =3D "Are you sure you want to this?" repeated times for the same=20 thing over and over. I am looking fowrd to the release of Intrepid Ibrx. Dom't believe all the negatives about Vista. It's really not all that bad=20 and, IMHO, an improvement over XP. Peace! John Botscharow http://jbotscharow.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Brad Bellomo" To: Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 10:10 PM Subject: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share Microsoft has released a potential fix for this bug. They are calling it Vista. --=20 Microsoft has a majority market share https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber of the bug. Status in Club Distro: Confirmed Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed Status in Ubuntu: In Progress Status in =E2=80=9Cbum=E2=80=9D source package in Ubuntu: Invalid Status in =E2=80=9Ccasper=E2=80=9D source package in Ubuntu: Invalid Status in =E2=80=9Cdjplay=E2=80=9D source package in Ubuntu: Invalid Status in =E2=80=9Cfirefox=E2=80=9D source package in Ubuntu: Invalid Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Ubuntu: Confir= med Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D source package in Debian: Confirmed Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed Status in Tilix Linux: New Bug description: Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrictin= g=20 access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the=20 ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. Thi= s=20 bug is widely evident in the PC industry. Steps to repeat: 1. Visit a local PC store. What happens: 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software=20 pre-installed. 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. What should happen: 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like=20 Ubuntu. 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and=20 benefits would be apparent and known by all. 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: traxtermaster (jasonmougeot) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 03:31:59 -0000 Message-Id: <20081102033159.16602.50629.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Well the point we are trying to get to is not that Vista is not good. its about the monopoly of Microsoft which they says they are not doing but most system company are only offering. vista is a memory pig but looks nice. linux might not 100% compatible for all applications but its getting pretty good at it. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Adriaan Joubert (adie90) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 17:06:44 -0000 Message-Id: <20081102170645.25554.62755.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Here in South Africa, it is as if there is a complete disregard to the needs of the consumer. What we need, is affordable hardware and software and stuff like localized keyboards. What we get, is expensive high-end hardware with expensive commercial software preloaded. We also get the QWERTY keyboard which is incompatible with some of the languages spoken here. Ubuntu will never root itself into South African computer use as long as retailers blindly ignore our needs. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Harsh Singh (hisingh1) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 18:14:10 -0000 Message-Id: <7da17e8a0811021014p4a6e10ch8895bee6dd5a93f4@mail.gmail.com> "gutsy gorilla" nice, its actually gutsy gibbon :] rolfcopter --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: kylea (kylea) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 11:30:03 -0000 Message-Id: <20081103113007.16729.54668.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Having been involved with IT for 30 years starting with IBM PC's & XT's and Apple Lisa's, ICL Mainframes running card punched Cobol programs, PICK and Prime Information and Universe, MS-Dos and Windows PC's, I finally decided to try and kick Microsoft out of my life and off my PC. Well nearly - I still need it for a few things as there is no acceptable options under Linux or the only supported platform is Windows or Mac, (thanks Australian Tax Office). So I use Sun's xVM VirtualBox. I took the gamble and stepped up dived into Ubuntu and 8.10 and 64bit. I have put many many many hours into getting it to where now I think its an acceptable alternative, just re-fix Bluetooth !!! and its will be perfect. However the effort has been large, so I am going to give it 3 months (??) and try and install the final stable release onto other laptop to see if its really an viable alternative to XP and Vista and all that that means. Also I am not sure if the 'community' is as mature as it needs to be really break Microsoft's monopoly. Does free =3D freedom? Not sure thats true. One definition of Freedom could be the right to chose from viable alternatives. Free is not always better and paying for well developed and supported software is not unethical. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Botscharow (jbotscharow) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 12:17:14 -0000 Message-Id: <1225714634.8105.3.camel@john-desktop> Bravo!!! Well said. Words of wisdom from someone who has a great deak of IT experience and expertise. I recommend that this community ALL read this and take the message to heart. Maybe hen Ubuntu can move in a direction that will really allow it tochallnge MS. On Mon, 2008-11-03 at 11:30 +0000, kylea wrote: > Having been involved with IT for 30 years starting with IBM PC's & XT's > and Apple Lisa's, ICL Mainframes running card punched Cobol programs, > PICK and Prime Information and Universe, MS-Dos and Windows PC's, I > finally decided to try and kick Microsoft out of my life and off my PC. > Well nearly - I still need it for a few things as there is no acceptable > options under Linux or the only supported platform is Windows or Mac, > (thanks Australian Tax Office). So I use Sun's xVM VirtualBox. >=20 > I took the gamble and stepped up dived into Ubuntu and 8.10 and 64bit. I > have put many many many hours into getting it to where now I think its > an acceptable alternative, just re-fix Bluetooth !!! and its will be > perfect. >=20 > However the effort has been large, so I am going to give it 3 months > (??) and try and install the final stable release onto other laptop to > see if its really an viable alternative to XP and Vista and all that > that means. >=20 > Also I am not sure if the 'community' is as mature as it needs to be > really break Microsoft's monopoly. >=20 > Does free =3D freedom? Not sure thats true. One definition of Freedom > could be the right to chose from viable alternatives. Free is not > always better and paying for well developed and supported software is > not unethical. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: kylea (kylea) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 12:56:08 -0000 Message-Id: <20081103125608.5324.72271.malone@palladium.canonical.com> "Also I am not sure if the 'community' is as mature as it needs to be really break Microsoft's monopoly." Let me clarify this statement - what I mean is this: Microsoft has spent BILLIONS smoothing off the rough edges from XP and simplifying the basic OS features to make XP and Vista simple to install and use. Most if not all the components that the average user needs day-to-day work in a seamless manner. Email, Calendars etc. Ubuntu has taken desktop linux a long way to where it needed to go. It now needs to step up and strive for the next level of completeness. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Paul Flint (flint) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:51:32 -0000 Message-Id: Dear Kylea, Thanks for the note. Seriously, while your note may be about computers, programs and operating=20 systems, I see it as an individual discussing a journey to find a system=20 they can live with. My only suggestion is that you consider giving a nod to the pantheon of=20 giants, including but not limited to Mark the SADFL (who is no slouch at=20 coding BTW :^), who for reasons known only to themselves code these=20 systems. I suspect that their software development activism is a new art=20 form, and we patrons owe to them whatever we can give, but minimally we=20 can easily prefer to these good crafts-folk our thanks, our recognition,=20 and in my case more than a touch of envy. My own resources are, on the eve of my country's election, at depressingly = low levels, yet I feel the strength of Ubuntu here in the world. My own=20 modest personal commitment at this time of personal and economic privation = in rural Vermont, in North America is to commit to those traveling in the=20 name of open systems that they need only say the word "Ubuntu" at my door=20 that they be assured the spirit of that word will be delivered to them in=20 full measure. I am no great coder, but this is what I currently have, and = this is what I have to offer. Kylea, you live literally on the other side of the world from me, yet we=20 share the same 30 years of experience (reference http://www.flint.com/flint). At one time America had leaders who asked us not what our country could do = for us but what we could do for our country. In a previous paragraph I=20 outlined my own very modest commitment to this system we use. Beyond=20 celebrating these coders by using their systems, and commenting here in=20 your letter on how fine their systems are (except of course, the damn=20 Bluetooth :^), I believe that the key to this whole movement is what can=20 you and I, personally do to help. Part of this help are bug reports. So thanks for the bug report Kylea, I=20 hope all is well in your land, and that Democracy and prosperity are soon=20 restored in my own. Kindest Regards, Paul Flint (802) 479-2360 /************************************ Based upon email reliability concerns, please send an acknowledgment in response to this note. Paul Flint Barre Open Systems Institute 17 Averill Street Barre, VT 05641 http://www.bosivt.org http://www.flint.com/home skype: flintinfotech Work: (202) 537-0480 Fax: (703) 852-7089 Consilium gratuitum .~. valet /V\ quanti /( )\ numerantur ^^-^^ On Mon, 3 Nov 2008, kylea wrote: > Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 11:30:03 -0000 > From: kylea > Reply-To: Bug 1 <1@bugs.launchpad.net> > To: flint@flint.com > Subject: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Having been involved with IT for 30 years starting with IBM PC's & XT's > and Apple Lisa's, ICL Mainframes running card punched Cobol programs, > PICK and Prime Information and Universe, MS-Dos and Windows PC's, I > finally decided to try and kick Microsoft out of my life and off my PC. > Well nearly - I still need it for a few things as there is no acceptable > options under Linux or the only supported platform is Windows or Mac, > (thanks Australian Tax Office). So I use Sun's xVM VirtualBox. > > I took the gamble and stepped up dived into Ubuntu and 8.10 and 64bit. I > have put many many many hours into getting it to where now I think its > an acceptable alternative, just re-fix Bluetooth !!! and its will be > perfect. > > However the effort has been large, so I am going to give it 3 months > (??) and try and install the final stable release onto other laptop to > see if its really an viable alternative to XP and Vista and all that > that means. > > Also I am not sure if the 'community' is as mature as it needs to be > really break Microsoft's monopoly. > > Does free =3D freedom? Not sure thats true. One definition of Freedom > could be the right to chose from viable alternatives. Free is not > always better and paying for well developed and supported software is > not unethical. > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Amrith (amrithraj-r) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 17:32:45 -0000 Message-Id: <20081104173247.13039.39296.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> The steps to repeat should also include good advertisements. Most of the pe= ople have never heard ubuntu. I have burnt and distributed at least 50 CD in Bangalore,India. I personally helped my friends in installing ubuntu. One major bang in advertisement of ubuntu and people will be willing to use ubuntu. Hope this bug is resolved soon. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Ermenegildo Fiorito (fiorito-g) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 18:44:23 -0000 Message-Id: <20081105184423.23982.30183.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> People from the Obama campaign have said that they use Ubuntu 8.04. It seems to be used nationally. http://boredandblogging.com/2008/10/21/obama-ubuntu/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Stephan van Ingen (stephanvaningen) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 19:49:15 -0000 Message-Id: How sad my feedback here is: "the comments confirm the contrary :-(" 2008/11/5 Ermenegildo Fiorito > People from the Obama campaign have said that they use Ubuntu 8.04. It > seems to be used nationally. > > http://boredandblogging.com/2008/10/21/obama-ubuntu/ > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?q?G=C3=B6tz_Christ_=28g-christ=29?= Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 23:25:04 -0000 Message-Id: <20081105232504.17146.7153.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I think something important to do is to fusion the official Ubuntu-based distributions. So Ubuntu will become Gnome, KDE, XFCE, like many other distribution does. The installer (in a Advanced option maybe) should ask the user for the Desktop Environment, like KDE, XFCE and others (downloading them from the repository), and of course, provide a default and recommended Desktop Environment. With this way I think the computers companies could choose to include Gnome, KDE, XFCE or whatever they like, and at the same time, they are using the official Ubuntu and not a variant of it. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: ThomasLee82 (kamiyasha) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 07:15:50 -0000 Message-Id: <20081106071551.3247.47067.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> I have been applying a patch to this bug in Central Illinois. I am a member of an organization called "Freecycle" (http://www.freecycle.org) and have been using their network to distribute X/Kubuntu-loaded computers to people in need. I figure that, since Microsoft would only end up charging them so much to keep Windows, I may as well take it upon myself to provide a more reasonable alternative. I do distribute the computers with the ubuntu-restricted-extras and WINE installed, but that is due to user-friendliness more than anything. After all, I know more than a few people - even people on this very forum - would be quite upset if they got a computer and found out that it wouldn't play MP3s. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: maximus3d (maximus3d) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 05:02:16 -0000 Message-Id: <20081110050216.17648.86054.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Ubuntu could contract some OEM producer and start selling own computers. That would a good patch to the issue. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Botscharow (jbotscharow) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 10:53:31 -0000 Message-Id: <1226314411.6448.40.camel@john-desktop> On Mon, 2008-11-10 at 05:02 +0000, maximus3d wrote: > Ubuntu could contract some OEM producer and start selling own computers. > That would a good patch to the issue. Who do you mean by Ubuntu? Canonical? The LoCos? I WAS a member of the marketing team but left ot of fustratiobover issues tha were duplicates ove the issue youraise - the lack of any centralized entity calledUbuntu. A lotofpeople here arrgue that this decentralization is one of the strengths of FOSS, and perhaps it is,at least from the development point of view. But from the marketing standpoint, and fixing this bug is a marketing issue, whether everyone sees it or not, this decentralization is a marketing nightmare. There have been two suggestions here for fixes for this bug that, IMHO, have any chance at all at taking on MS: 1. Somehow Ubuntu becomes the sole version of Linux. The standard bearer of a unified distro that has all the resorces of all the distros available to it. If that were to happen, then the OEM manufacturers would be willing to listen to the Linux community and respond with OEMs with Linux pre-installed. Thatwould be the crack we needed to really put a fix on ths bug. Bt I suspect that unity is not going to happen soon. 2. A lot more people could do what Christ who posted on Thursday is doing: supplying Linux machines to the needy at costs that are less than what they would have to pay for an MS machine, especially in the long run since MS charges for updates and Linux does not.=20 If we could get a couple thoudand people worldwide who have the necessary expertise to do this, it would definitely chip away at MS's market share. After all, people do tend to stay with products they are amiliar with, and if Linux gets to them first, well.... If you think this is nuts, let me tell you my own experience.Irecently bought a new HP Pavilio box because I needed an additional computer. My old machine was an Ubuntu that tarted with Gytsy Gorill and upgraded to Hardy Heron. It worked pretty well. I had set it up myself, with some difficulty. You see, I am one of the many many many people in the world who use computers but have very little in the way of technicl skills.=20 Before I bought my HP I was looking for someone here in the SA who sold ORMs with Ubuntu pre-installed that was not Dell. No real luch there, I/m afraid. So I bought the HP and like the old one, it works pretty weel, but not as well as it should or could, because I don't know how to do all the tweking to get it to work exactly right. That's why this machine is a double boot and why I still have to spend a fair amount of time using Windows. The people Imentioned above do not want to spend hours and hours trying to get their computers to work. They want them to work right from the start. And by working right, I don't just mean the core stuff, I mean all of it. My HP vame with a ton of software preinstalled. Stuff I will never use. Ubuntu came with a lot of good stuff, but not everything I needed. Some of it was easy to find and install, some of it is not.=20 And until the hardware manufacturers take Linux seriously, people will be leery of Linux, especially if they have to install it themselves, because of thimgs like proprietary drivers and proprietary software that only work with windows. This is an issue I'm trying to deal with - trying to get my HP Deskjet to work right in Ubuntu. I said this bug as a marketing issse and then talked about all the technical issues that come with Linux. That's bcuse the first marketing has to be to the Linux communities to make them see that, givrn the present state of Linux, the average computer user sees :inux as something for those more technically adept, not for them, the peope who buy the vast majority of computers. Unti that perception is changed, which will require a major attitude change on the part of both sides, the Borg of Redmond will, sadly, remain untouchable. Peace! John Botscharow > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: maximus3d (maximus3d) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 22:33:31 -0000 Message-Id: <20081111223332.8737.18192.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Hi John, What I meant was that some independent vendor could start distribute computers with preinstalled Ubuntu only. And people would buy it not because of the price, but because of the absence of annoying licensing control and lots of other good things like performance, security, etc. When I was looking for a laptop with Ubuntu preinstalled I would buy one even if it would be more expensive then M$ based, just because it is what I need plus correctly configured drivers. At the place where I work no M$ can be found among hundreds of desktops and servers - only nix-based systems. At my own laptops I have dual boot, the same as you described, just because I have to work with couple of .net and java_for_M$_which_can_not_run_under_wine applications. BTW, some of the European countries governments and educational institutions switching completely to open source linux. Cheers, Max. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Botscharow (jbotscharow) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 02:12:28 -0000 Message-Id: <1226455948.7396.0.camel@john-desktop> Hi Max, Yes, Europe is far ahead of the USA when it comes to using FOSS MS has a real stranglehold here, but there are a few cracks.What we really need here is a court system with the same fortitude as the EU Supreme Court that will enforce our anti-trust laws the way they were meant to be enforced. MS has resorted to some very questionable business practices in its campaign to establish supremacy. It's time it was made to pay for them. As far as your idea of independent distributors of hardware with Ubuntu pre-installed goes, that's a very ood idea and if I had the technical expertise, I would certainly give serious thought to doing here in the USA I think there are a lot of people in this community who DO have that kind of expertise/ They should give some serious consideration to setting up such a business, at least on a custom special order basis to start. Maybe even set up an Ubuntu hardware team with their own mailing list. forum, web site, etc. It could even grow into a multinational network=20 n Tue, 2008-11-11 at 22:33 +0000, maximus3d wrote: > Hi John, >=20 > What I meant was that some independent vendor could start distribute > computers with preinstalled Ubuntu only. And people would buy it not > because of the price, but because of the absence of annoying licensing > control and lots of other good things like performance, security, etc. > When I was looking for a laptop with Ubuntu preinstalled I would buy one > even if it would be more expensive then M$ based, just because it is > what I need plus correctly configured drivers. >=20 > At the place where I work no M$ can be found among hundreds of desktops > and servers - only nix-based systems. At my own laptops I have dual > boot, the same as you described, just because I have to work with couple > of .net and java_for_M$_which_can_not_run_under_wine applications. >=20 > BTW, some of the European countries governments and educational > institutions switching completely to open source linux. >=20 > Cheers, > Max. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Shane Fagan (shanepatrickfagan) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:26:38 -0000 Message-Id: <20081112172638.24707.65613.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> I would disagree with the view that Europe is far ahead of the US when it comes to free software. European governments dont know about or care about Ubuntu or GNU/linux in general. I live in Ireland and we cant even get ubuntu from dell. I think that service is only available in the UK and the US so people in the US and the UK can say that they are well ahead of many countries when it comes to breaking the stranglehold of MS. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: tamimi (bakr-tamimi) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:58:42 -0000 Message-Id: <20081113085842.6773.57858.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> This bug is easily reproducible throughout the Arab world. Here in Dubai, UAE, this bug can be found on every computer. Even in Gitex 2008 , the major IT industry expo in the region, Linux had a poor table between tens of thousands of tables that promoted Micro$oft. Most Arabs, including the educated, have no knowledge that this is actually a bug. Micro$oft is thought to be the nature of IT, as god given as the sun or the earth. Most Arabs are not aware that there is an alternative to MS Windows. Nor is the general public aware of the problems attached to copy rights in general and copy righted software in particular. Linux awareness is almost nil in the general public. Linux in general is being shunned by academia as well industry as inappropriate! Arab governments, in general, have allied themselves, formally or informally with Micro$oft. Intellectual Property Rights is a theme being marketed to the general public as a good thing for a happy future! Awareness campaigns to promote Linux are rare events, extremely limited in reach, and met by all sorts of formal bureaucratic obstacles, by governments, academia, as well as industry. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:14:46 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0811130514x3157dc0atf444ff72525f8231@mail.gmail.com> *Aha !!! you now understand the complexities of not for profit ! "Awareness campaigns to promote Linux are rare events, extremely limited in reach, and met by all sorts of formal bureaucratic obstacles, by governments, academia, as well as industry." * *Microsoft and Apple are about profit. Try Ubuntu version 8.10. I installed 8.10 on a new Dual core, and was on the Internet checking my email in 12 minutes !!! Allen * --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Endolith (endolith) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:39:53 -0000 Message-Id: <20081113153953.25167.90245.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> > Try Ubuntu version 8.10. I installed 8.10 on a new Dual core, and was on > the Internet checking my email in 12 minutes !!! Whereas I "upgraded" to 8.10, and my video card stopped working, my keyboard started locking up whenever I change the LCD brightness, arrow keys stopped working when logged in over SSH, ... I was really excited when I installed Ubuntu and had a Linux distro that actually worked without a lot of headaches and manual effort, but I've been increasingly disappointed by subsequent releases. I don't understand why there's such an emphasis on releasing on a specific date without fixing known bugs. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Nick_Hill (nick-nickhill) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:00:10 -0000 Message-Id: <20081113170010.19320.9437.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Endolith, Ubuntu is based on Debian. Debian focus on getting a distro to what they co= nsider "finished" before release. Unfortunately, without the discipline a r= elease schedule provides, debian has proven releases may slip to three or m= ore years apart. With Debian stable, most of the time, you would find yourself one major release behind flagship desktop programs such as Openoffice or Firefox. Sometimes two releases behind. With Ubuntu, the release schedule gives you most of the benefits of Debian, with a far more rapid release schedule. So yes, we are paying a penalty for the release schedule, but it is up to the individual user to choose what is right for them. You don't have to update to every Ubuntu release. To manage this, you could: 1) Use Debian stable. Very long release schedule, but well-tested prior to = release. 2) Stick to long term release versions of Ubuntu. These tend to be released= faster than Debian stable, but also tend to be better tested and more thor= oughly bug-fixed than intermediate releases, and you have fewer upgrades to= cause potential problems. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Dragan Tomas (croatian-earthlink) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:24:23 -0000 Message-Id: <20081113212423.7770.24848.malone@palladium.canonical.com> I'm amazed that nobody congratulated Mr. Mark Shuttleworth on his 4th anniversary of this 1st reported major and critical bug for us all Penguin-Heads :-) Where's your camaraderie and a certain sense of belonging? The August 20th of this year came and passed by a simple note from one of our devout users from Brazil, noting a significant milestone in adoption of Ubuntu for their official government businesses. I guess that in itself is somewhat of an indirect congratulatory note to Mark, but considering the all important silent battle that's going on in the computerized underworld of OS', one would wish to see a more 'exposed' and 'visible' TV commercial about this whole thing. I would envision it to be very similar to the one about "I'm a PC.. and I'm a MAC" where Linux is the one challenging the M$ PC guy with simple, yet provoking questions. "I am a user running Ubuntu who's against M$ and I totally approve this message" --Ubuntovnik --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Endolith (endolith) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:55:19 -0000 Message-Id: <20081117165519.9698.87023.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> > With Debian stable, most of the time, you would find yourself one major > release behind flagship desktop programs such as Openoffice or Firefox. I don't understand why these have anything to do with each other. Why can'= t releases have a stable, bug-free subsystem combined with the latest bleed= ing-edge flagship apps? I can download the latest versions of things from = getdeb.net and run them fine on an older release. I don't understand why p= roviding the latest version of Firefox necessitates simultaneously releasin= g all kinds of buggy half-baked changes to video, audio, etc. =20 > You > don't have to update to every Ubuntu release. I update because I, like most computer users, expect "updates" to fix long-= standing bugs, but lately they have only caused more problems. =20 > 2) Stick to long term release versions of Ubuntu. I had a lot of problems after "upgrading" to Hardy, too. "Blogsphere and forums are full of post saying that hardy is much more buggy than Gutsy or any other previous release." http://www.lazytechguy.com/2008/08/is-ubuntu-hardy-really-that- buggy.html It seems like there is no difference in bugginess between LTS and regular releases, or even between releases and release candidates, for that matter. Wouldn't it be a better idea to hold only the release *candidates* to a rigid schedule, but delay the actual releases until the known bugs are fixed? I don't know much about the technicalities or politics of release schedules, but priorities need to be changed if "upgrades" make end users' machines unusable. This is just unacceptable, and you'll never gain any headway on Microsoft this way. I'm a relatively technical person, and I still don't have the time or patience to slog through all this stuff just to get my system working normally again. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Amir E. Aharoni (amir-aharoni) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 19:56:53 -0000 Message-Id: <20081123195653.933.31264.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Every six-months a version of Ubuntu is released to big PR hoo-hah. Blogs with mockups of the new theme for the upcoming Ubuntu version receive a lot of Diggs. And well, the graphic designers working on Ubuntu are doing a great job, but usability isn't necessarily a question of graphic design. New icons, wallpapers and themes should be the lowest priority by now. They are more than good enough. Hardware support, software alternatives for Windows-only products and overall stability are more important than a new wallpaper. (I would make an exception for fonts, though. Well-designed fonts are crucial and the current offering in Ubuntu is not anywhere near Windows.) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Botscharow (jbotscharow) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:46:47 -0000 Message-Id: <492BF3B7.9060208@jbotscharow.com> Amir makes some excellent points. I totally agree with him, especially=20 on the fonts. I have both Windows Vista and Ubuntu 8.10 installed on my computer and I=20 am constantly switching back and forth, especially when I want to read=20 web pages I use Firefox 3.0 on both Vistan and Ibex, yet sites always=20 look better in Vista because of the fonts. I would also add that Ubuntu needs to add some of the cutomization=20 features for colors and font colors that are available in Windows and=20 the Windows version of Firefox,things like changing hyperlink colors for=20 those of us who are color blnd to some degree. I often have to oopy the=20 text from a web site to gedit in order to be able to read it properly=20 because I cannot do the same font and color customization in Ubuntu that=20 I can in Windows. Iverall, I see the new 8.10 version of Ubuntu as a small step backwars=20 deom 8.04. It is almost as frustrating to use as Vista. Amir E. Aharoni wrote: > Every six-months a version of Ubuntu is released to big PR hoo-hah. > Blogs with mockups of the new theme for the upcoming Ubuntu version > receive a lot of Diggs. > > And well, the graphic designers working on Ubuntu are doing a great job, > but usability isn't necessarily a question of graphic design. > > New icons, wallpapers and themes should be the lowest priority by now. > They are more than good enough. > > Hardware support, software alternatives for Windows-only products and > overall stability are more important than a new wallpaper. > > (I would make an exception for fonts, though. Well-designed fonts are > crucial and the current offering in Ubuntu is not anywhere near > Windows.) > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 13:48:52 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0811250548p64597db2kb5a20c8e15f5acb3@mail.gmail.com> Why don't you just change the fonts and colors ? It's easy. On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 7:46 AM, John Botscharow wrote: > Amir makes some excellent points. I totally agree with him, especially > on the fonts. > I have both Windows Vista and Ubuntu 8.10 installed on my computer and I > am constantly switching back and forth, especially when I want to read > web pages I use Firefox 3.0 on both Vistan and Ibex, yet sites always > look better in Vista because of the fonts. > > I would also add that Ubuntu needs to add some of the cutomization > features for colors and font colors that are available in Windows and > the Windows version of Firefox,things like changing hyperlink colors for > those of us who are color blnd to some degree. I often have to oopy the > text from a web site to gedit in order to be able to read it properly > because I cannot do the same font and color customization in Ubuntu that > I can in Windows. > > Iverall, I see the new 8.10 version of Ubuntu as a small step backwars > deom 8.04. It is almost as frustrating to use as Vista. > > Amir E. Aharoni wrote: > > Every six-months a version of Ubuntu is released to big PR hoo-hah. > > Blogs with mockups of the new theme for the upcoming Ubuntu version > > receive a lot of Diggs. > > > > And well, the graphic designers working on Ubuntu are doing a great job, > > but usability isn't necessarily a question of graphic design. > > > > New icons, wallpapers and themes should be the lowest priority by now. > > They are more than good enough. > > > > Hardware support, software alternatives for Windows-only products and > > overall stability are more important than a new wallpaper. > > > > (I would make an exception for fonts, though. Well-designed fonts are > > crucial and the current offering in Ubuntu is not anywhere near > > Windows.) > > > > > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --=20 If you're considering a Mexican vacation, look at the exchange rate from Canadian $$ to Mex $$(pesos) by going here: http://www.xe.com/ict/ http://picasaweb.google.com/allenggraham/Mazatlan# --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Botscharow (jbotscharow) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 17:05:27 -0000 Message-Id: <492C3057.4080702@jbotscharow.com> Allen, I have changed both the fonts and the colors. I use a customized version=20 of Xfce 4 Dusk theme. The point that Amir and I made is that the fobt=20 choices in Windows are of better quality than those in Uvunut. Also, in=20 Windows I can change the color of hyperlinks globally from the default=20 blue to say yellow which shows up better against black background, but=20 in Ubuntu Ican only do it for a select few porgrams, not every program.=20 Ones sthat I cannot change it in is Thunderbird or Life rea or=20 Evolution. And with the email programs, there are color issues related=20 to what appears to be poor integration with my choice of theme,=20 especially in the calendar section. I am not a developer. I am a writer and I need my computer to be as=20 user-firendly for me as possible with as little hacking on my part as=20 possible. I do not have the technical skills to do serious hacking and=20 if I tried, chance are, I'd make a mess of things. I really would like to get Ubuntu to the point where it did what I=20 needed it to do so I could stop switching back and forth so much and use=20 Vista only for the games that are Windows only which I play with my 12=20 year-old son. I have no love for Bill gates or the Borg of Redmond. The=20 less I need to use Windows the happier I'll be. Allen Graham wrote: > Why don't you just change the fonts and colors ? It's easy. > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 7:46 AM, John Botscharow > wrote: > > =20 >> Amir makes some excellent points. I totally agree with him, especially >> on the fonts. >> I have both Windows Vista and Ubuntu 8.10 installed on my computer and I >> am constantly switching back and forth, especially when I want to read >> web pages I use Firefox 3.0 on both Vistan and Ibex, yet sites always >> look better in Vista because of the fonts. >> >> I would also add that Ubuntu needs to add some of the cutomization >> features for colors and font colors that are available in Windows and >> the Windows version of Firefox,things like changing hyperlink colors for >> those of us who are color blnd to some degree. I often have to oopy the >> text from a web site to gedit in order to be able to read it properly >> because I cannot do the same font and color customization in Ubuntu that >> I can in Windows. >> >> Iverall, I see the new 8.10 version of Ubuntu as a small step backwars >> deom 8.04. It is almost as frustrating to use as Vista. >> >> Amir E. Aharoni wrote: >> =20 >>> Every six-months a version of Ubuntu is released to big PR hoo-hah. >>> Blogs with mockups of the new theme for the upcoming Ubuntu version >>> receive a lot of Diggs. >>> >>> And well, the graphic designers working on Ubuntu are doing a great job, >>> but usability isn't necessarily a question of graphic design. >>> >>> New icons, wallpapers and themes should be the lowest priority by now. >>> They are more than good enough. >>> >>> Hardware support, software alternatives for Windows-only products and >>> overall stability are more important than a new wallpaper. >>> >>> (I would make an exception for fonts, though. Well-designed fonts are >>> crucial and the current offering in Ubuntu is not anywhere near >>> Windows.) >>> >>> >>> =20 >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber >> of the bug. >> >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed >> Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid >> Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid >> Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Confirmed >> Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid >> Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed >> Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> Status in Tilix Linux: New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potentia= l, >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like >> Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >> >> =20 > > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Harsh Singh (hisingh1) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 22:01:25 -0000 Message-Id: <7da17e8a0811291401g1b6eb291mc94705d1d5ddf5e8@mail.gmail.com> I believe that 'a new era' is coming. In my school, loads of people are making the change to linux. Although our school uses macs, technical problems due to malconfigured networks give it a bad name. Windows also lost respect by it 'wow' worthy vista. People are starting to see that linux is a feasible solution. Many young people are contributing to the ever growing open source linux society. More and more people that are contributing and are members are becoming younger. My friend Nathan Handler is on the verge of becoming MOTU and he is only 15! NO, not everyone is going to change to linux. But the people that are... Oh boy, they will be gods with computers. Not old fat men in their mother's basement, but teens that are starting to see just how far the rabbit hole goes. A new age is approaching. One with people that want to be recognized. One in which what you see is a tiny fragment of what you can make it. Being the first bug, we should consider the words of Mark Shuttleworth. We [the contributors] must work together. We should not fight on small issues and not point fingers at other software developers. Remember, "We have bigger fish to fry". Advertising -- [Success] Uniformity -- [Needs some work, we need more minds contributing and collaborating] IRC -- [The best way to help, there are loads of people in #ubuntu irc.ubuntu.com that are willing to help, Even brand new users are eager to share there experiences and how to fix some problems.] Suggestions: Many people say they have bad experiences with linux. And to be honest, i have had some too. BUT what I disagree with is them pronouncing it 'underdeveloped' or 'buggy'. There are computers that have problems with linux. YET, we must not forget that there are computers that just work with linux. (maybe adding [in big letters] go to [a website that connects to freenode and automatically joins #ubuntu] for help would benifit the expancion of ubuntu) Point being, lets give out construtive criticism, solid suggestions, and mindblowing ideas! and lets work towards implementing them... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: jawahar (ijawahar) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 06:59:04 -0000 Message-Id: <20081203065905.8995.46888.malone@palladium.canonical.com> I believe decentralizing the distribution of free Ubuntu CDs will help in p= enentrating into desktop systems. https://shipit.ubuntu.com/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Pyper (jpyper) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:58:47 -0000 Message-Id: @jawahar If Canonical didn't offer the free Ubuntu CDs via the shipit portal, there are some people that wouldn't be experiencing the great operating system that we know as Ubuntu. They are offering FREE CDs to people worldwide. I'll admit, there's times that I order a single CD with each new release because I am a collector, but, if we can get less unfortunate people to be able to experience what we have to offer where bandwidth is either too expensive or non-existant, that not only improves the Ubuntu image, but the Linux image and awareness as a whole. John Pyper Kent, WA, USA On 12/2/08, jawahar wrote: > I believe decentralizing the distribution of free Ubuntu CDs will help in > penentrating into desktop systems. > https://shipit.ubuntu.com/ > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing > access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the > ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. T= his > bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: thegizmoguy (thegizmoguy) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 04:51:31 -0000 Message-Id: <20081207045131.5496.89379.malone@palladium.canonical.com> In my opinion, for Ubuntu to be able to really do damage to microsoft, we need far greater support for hardware that is otherwise supported under Windows. Yes, I understand that Ubuntu is generally refusing to use anything that is closed-source, but the average joe user does not care how his hardware is working- just that it's working. 8.10 is the first version of Ubuntu that i've even bothered trying to get working since I refused to do ndiswrapper hacks which were required with earlier versions of Ubuntu to get Broadcom wifi working. And simply refusing to include basic codecs just because they are closed-source is just plain asinine. Second, Ubuntu needs to take a more proactive approach against bugs. Looking at all of the ones here, it seems only a fraction of legitimate ones get fixed. Instead it appears the developers are more interested in pumping out new and pointless features (ala Vista). Even right now I have 2 bugs and quirks out that shouldn't be present in an OS this mature (connecting to a WPA2 network and MAC address changing)....both of these have no problem in XP. For further example, look at the *giant* bug right now with HP users having to hold down a key to boot the OS. The kernel developers upstream have yet to even respond to the bug thread there and the only solution here is to do more config hacking and temporary fixes. So I'm sorry, if Ubuntu wants to get competitive we've got to start getting serious about making a "just works" OS like Windows has been for years --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Shane Fagan (shanepatrickfagan) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 13:20:16 -0000 Message-Id: <20081207132016.25306.64111.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> They dont include the codecs not because they are closed source but because you need to pay to include them. They are trying to get everything working, its just that they cant if the hardware developers dont release the full specifications. The new features are useful like 3g networking, 8.10 had a load of updates to gnome which they also had to get working. Bug fixing is done by the community so dont complain you fix some instead of wasting your time complaining. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 13:52:03 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0812070552j471ebe77v6f6e5897cda5f4b@mail.gmail.com> TO: gizmoguy, and others that feel the same way. UBUNTU is NOT in competition with Microsoft. It is a shame that MS has a huge market share with, what most of us feel, is very poor quality programming, "lousy code". Next: UBUNTU is a not-for-profit movement. Thanks to Mark Shuttleworth and his vision !!! Learn more about some of the hardware that is not and may never be supported by Linux / UBUNTU.. There is a lot of crappy hardware out there ! There is no O/S from MS that compares to LINUX, do some Googling, and find out what's really going on. Ask your tech if he/she uses Linux, all of the good ones do and many feel that UBUNTU/GNOME is over simplified (I disagree) a big hola! from sunny Mexico, Allengg On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 11:51 PM, thegizmoguy wrote: > In my opinion, for Ubuntu to be able to really do damage to microsoft, > we need far greater support for hardware that is otherwise supported > under Windows. Yes, I understand that Ubuntu is generally refusing to > use anything that is closed-source, but the average joe user does not > care how his hardware is working- just that it's working. 8.10 is the > first version of Ubuntu that i've even bothered trying to get working > since I refused to do ndiswrapper hacks which were required with earlier > versions of Ubuntu to get Broadcom wifi working. And simply refusing > to include basic codecs just because they are closed-source is just > plain asinine. > > Second, Ubuntu needs to take a more proactive approach against bugs. > Looking at all of the ones here, it seems only a fraction of legitimate > ones get fixed. Instead it appears the developers are more interested > in pumping out new and pointless features (ala Vista). Even right now I > have 2 bugs and quirks out that shouldn't be present in an OS this > mature (connecting to a WPA2 network and MAC address changing)....both > of these have no problem in XP. For further example, look at the > *giant* bug right now with HP users having to hold down a key to boot > the OS. The kernel developers upstream have yet to even respond to the > bug thread there and the only solution here is to do more config hacking > and temporary fixes. > > So I'm sorry, if Ubuntu wants to get competitive we've got to start > getting serious about making a "just works" OS like Windows has been for > years > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --=20 If you're considering a Mexican vacation, look at the exchange rate from Canadian $$ to Mex $$(pesos) by going here: http://www.xe.com/ict/ http://picasaweb.google.com/allenggraham/Mazatlan# --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: thegizmoguy (thegizmoguy) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 17:47:43 -0000 Message-Id: <20081207174744.18790.83010.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Ubuntu is clearly in competition with Microsoft or this bug thread wouldn't exist! "There is a lot of crappy hardware out there !" Yes, I agree with you here. Except Ubuntu/Linux needs to start playing in the hardware world instead of waiting for the hardware world to play with them. The problems that I described can likely be replicated on dozens of other systems that have been mass produced by the big 3 vendors. With a roughly 3% market share, I doubt Linux will ever in the near future be able to have market-power in the way that you speak of. "Ask your tech if he/she uses Linux, all of the good ones do and many feel that UBUNTU/GNOME is over simplified (I disagree)" Well, I am what you would call at the power user/tech. All of my comments are from (me) who DOES research, hunt down, trouble shoot, etc. I still don't understand why so many people believe that you must be more skilled just because you can memorize a million commands to run from the terminal when Microsoft simplified the process with configuration utilities and "Properties" menus. For example, it would be absurd within windows if one had to start modifying the registry and manually adding dll files to get a wireless card working. Yet, in Ubuntu, every thing that I wanted to do configuration wise felt like I had to hack the entire "registry" of config files via the terminal. (I'm not the only one that mentions this), but things that shouldn't be THAT difficult to do in Ubuntu require hours of googling and tutorials to actually accomplish....others mentioned setting up DSL connections required an inordinate amount of work. Now because I'm actually trying to adopt Linux, I've been willing to overlook that to a certain extent, but there is a reason I'm typing this message in XP again and not Ubuntu. I don't feel hindered in XP, I feel like the computer works for me and not me for the computer. In Ubuntu it's vice versa. Sure Ubuntu has speed and security benefits (and other aesthetic benefits), but a well managed and configured XP box can get very close to Ubuntu in those aspects. I've just been looking to adopt Linux since Windows 7 is looking to be a huge flop and I can't stay with XP for another 4 years. So in summation, Ubuntu (and linux in general) needs to get out of the infant stage where "only geeks that have nothing else to do" can use it, configure it, and manage it before it can ever become serious competition to Windows. Now I'm a geek, and that's why I've even given Ubuntu (and OpenSUSE, and Mandriva, and Kubuntu) a chance, but I have other things to do besides spending (literally 6 hours yesterday) trying to get simple things done that I could do in XP within 2 hours. Would Ubuntu probably work much better on my desktop....you bet....but you can't neglect the vast laptop user base that uses proprietary and customized hardware. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: thegizmoguy (thegizmoguy) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 18:16:33 -0000 Message-Id: <20081207181635.18657.98296.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> I'll follow up with this link: http://stonedeadparrot.blogspot.com/2007/05/why-ubuntu-sucks.html Read the comments and the main article and you'll see everything I'm saying is not just an isolated incident. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 18:30:21 -0000 Message-Id: <493C163D.5080602@hal-pc.org> I am in the US, so my observations may not apply to your region.=20 ("Your" meaning all of the readers, not just GizmoGuy) thegizmoguy wrote: > Ubuntu is clearly in competition with Microsoft or this bug thread > wouldn't exist! Ferrari is not in competition with Ford. But Ford's larger market share=20 means that they can strongly effect Ferrari policy. For example, you=20 are unlikely to find Ferrari break pads in the local O'Reilly's. > "There is a lot of crappy hardware out there !" >=20 > Yes, I agree with you here. Except Ubuntu/Linux needs to start playing > in the hardware world instead of waiting for the hardware world to play > with them. The problems that I described can likely be replicated on > dozens of other systems that have been mass produced by the big 3 > vendors. With a roughly 3% market share, I doubt Linux will ever in the > near future be able to have market-power in the way that you speak of. Exactly how? If a hardware vendor does not want to play, how do you=20 make them? But you are underestimating market power here. Look in the=20 server space. How many server parts have no Linux drivers? Did you=20 every wonder why the $3000 multi-function printer/fax devices all have=20 Linux support but the $110 one at Walmart does not? It means that you=20 have to stop buying crap, and purchase supported hardware. I do this=20 for all my hardware, even if it is destined to be infected with Windows. > "Ask your tech if he/she uses Linux, all of the > good ones do and many feel that UBUNTU/GNOME is over simplified (I > disagree)" >=20 > Well, I am what you would call at the power user/tech. All of my > comments are from (me) who DOES research, hunt down, trouble shoot, etc. > I still don't understand why so many people believe that you must be > more skilled just because you can memorize a million commands to run > from the terminal when Microsoft simplified the process with > configuration utilities and "Properties" menus. For example, it would > be absurd within windows if one had to start modifying the registry and > manually adding dll files to get a wireless card working. Yet, in > Ubuntu, every thing that I wanted to do configuration wise felt like I > had to hack the entire "registry" of config files via the terminal. > (I'm not the only one that mentions this), but things that shouldn't be > THAT difficult to do in Ubuntu require hours of googling and tutorials > to actually accomplish....others mentioned setting up DSL connections > required an inordinate amount of work. I have had to do just that within Windows on many occasions. Support=20 for security camera DVR cards are notorious for sending .reg files or=20 telling you to do it. As to why command line; The GUI does not have all=20 the options. For example, set up autologin on XP Pro without typing.=20 At best, you have to launch a GUI tool with no shortcut available. For=20 that matter, where the hell is "start -> Run" on Vista? It became an=20 obscure and unlabeled key command. All of your Linux problems are also=20 in Windows. It is just that in Windows, you allready know the answer. Also, I have 75 Ubuntu systems in production. Other than my home=20 system, they are all set up in a way that can be done with only the GUI.=20 Of course I used a script, because it is easier to be consistent that=20 way... You would do that on Windows too, correct? And my systems are=20 used by non-technical users. The only complaint I get is "Why can't I=20 run this virus infected attachment I got in e-mail?" > Now because I'm actually trying to adopt Linux, I've been willing to > overlook that to a certain extent, but there is a reason I'm typing this > message in XP again and not Ubuntu. I don't feel hindered in XP, I feel > like the computer works for me and not me for the computer. In Ubuntu > it's vice versa. Sure Ubuntu has speed and security benefits (and other > aesthetic benefits), but a well managed and configured XP box can get > very close to Ubuntu in those aspects. I've just been looking to adopt > Linux since Windows 7 is looking to be a huge flop and I can't stay with > XP for another 4 years. Setting up a nice custom Linux machine takes me 2 hours. (10 minutes of=20 work and 1.5 hours of loading, copying and patching unattended.) With=20 XP it takes me 6, or 8 if the net is slow. If you want my script, I can=20 e-mail you a copy. > So in summation, Ubuntu (and linux in general) needs to get out of the > infant stage where "only geeks that have nothing else to do" can use it, > configure it, and manage it before it can ever become serious > competition to Windows. Now I'm a geek, and that's why I've even given > Ubuntu (and OpenSUSE, and Mandriva, and Kubuntu) a chance, but I have > other things to do besides spending (literally 6 hours yesterday) > trying to get simple things done that I could do in XP within 2 hours. > Would Ubuntu probably work much better on my desktop....you bet....but > you can't neglect the vast laptop user base that uses proprietary and > customized hardware. Yep. I have never had that happen with XP. Oh, wait... I have had it=20 happen on 1 of 2 identical systems. Spent a day trying to figure out=20 why it worked on one, but not the other. Turned out to be a residual=20 driver from a scanner that was mistakenly installed to the wrong system=20 and then (incompletely) removed. Had to re-install the system. But=20 since Linux takes all my time, I am *not* going outside to work on my=20 motorcycle right now. :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: thegizmoguy (thegizmoguy) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 22:27:59 -0000 Message-Id: <20081207222759.5496.13464.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Ok a couple more comments. You make a reference to server linux setup. This is definitely not a fair comparison as they don't require any sort of UI interface and often don't require proprietary this and that or hard core setups. (Wasn't UNIX a server-based OS in the first place?) Second, you mention having non-technical users running linux. Yes, that's great, except I don't have the luxury of having a system handed to me that works. I have to do all the configuration myself (which is what is irking me so bad right now). It feels like there is no place to turn to for help with Ubuntu (I mean is it a user problem or a bug...with XP the answer is clear). In fact from my perspective it almost seems like the only people that can actually USE linux in general like I can use XP are the people that have been with it since the beginning and know the config files in and out as well as the syntax. Cause I think the reason why I'm having so much difficult with bugs and configuration isn't because Ubuntu itself sucks, it's just because no one that's responded to forum requests knows how to use Ubuntu to fix it. The fact that there are a billion distros just makes the problem even worse (despite what everyone thinks about more distros meaning more choice). For example...I just tried the Fedora 10 live CD and couldn't even get it to boot.....do a google....other people have this problem. The fixes suggested work for some....not for others.....Does a dev jump in and say "whoa whoa whoa this is unacceptable to be happening for a "mature" distribution"....nope devs are MIA too busy fiddling with some KDE integration. For the autologin in XP watch how fast it can be done: Start-> Run-> control userpasswords2......can figure it out from there. I'd bet in linux it would be a 50 line config file modification all done via the terminal and gedit. Even when you find where you need to make the modification, there is no "check this to do this"....you'd have to go google some more just to find the syntax. IMO ALL computers should have internet off the bat. For me, this requires a spoofed mac address or broadcom wireless. How the hell am I supposed to even figure out how to get these things if I don't have internet to look them up? At least in Windows there is a Control Panel to get you going on basic to moderate levels of configuration. In ubuntu the control panel consists of diagnostic tools which have 0 power of configuration. Anyways, the hunt for a good linux distro continues....I'll fumble along with Ubuntu a bit longer, try some OpenSuse, fiddle with Fedora. If I can't get any of them working in a reasonable amount of time then *shudders* I might have to go with a Mac in a couple of years. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: thegizmoguy (thegizmoguy) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 22:35:31 -0000 Message-Id: <20081207223533.981.87374.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> And to have a final thought. Everyone always says "windows is just an OS that forces you to like what bill gates likes". Well how is Ubuntu (and linux) any different? Just like Windows you can make all the feature suggestions and wishlists you want but in the end it just falls on the deaf ears of over worked devs. I mean I alone have dozens of basic suggestions that i'd love to see put in ubuntu but it seems ubuntu is going the faceless route of microsoft. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 23:49:25 -0000 Message-Id: <493C6105.7050502@hal-pc.org> thegizmoguy wrote: > For the autologin in XP watch how fast it can be done: >=20 > Start-> Run-> control userpasswords2......can figure it out from there. A command line abstraction. Start -> run and a box for a command line=20 option is not GUI. > I'd bet in linux it would be a 50 line config file modification all done > via the terminal and gedit. System -> Administration -> Login Window. Click the "Security tab" and=20 select the login option and user. Click "Close." This can be done with=20 no keyboard attached. The problem is not what Linux can do, but what you know. You know about=20 userpasswords2, or at least where to look. You do not know that=20 autologin is under a security tab. This is an education problem masking=20 as a usability problem. I will admit that it is not helped by people=20 posting obscure command line stuff that is hard to understand. As to why the devs are not on the user lists... It gets old answering=20 the same question over and over again. Most of which are answered with=20 a search. An example is that ample evidence of 8x series nvidia=20 graphics cards and known issues with the nv driver. That is why I have=20 a 7950gtx in my system. You say you "I don't have the luxury of having a system handed to me that works." Why not? Either learn the hard way, or get a good=20 example from Dell. Both have a cost. Was your Windows knowledge free? This gets to the heart of bug 1. Microsoft is so common that the=20 workarounds for the issues they have are well known. Linux workarounds=20 are hidden, fragmented, and often obscurely written. That is a real=20 problem, but a different one that what you are talking about. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: zakzor (zakzor) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 03:03:02 -0000 Message-Id: <20081208030302.26098.75801.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> I agree with thegizmoguy when he says "Ubuntu is clearly in competition wit= h Microsoft or this bug thread wouldn't exist". It is the #1 bug and in the first few words of it we can read "This is a bu= g, which Ubuntu is designed to fix". With this in mind we realize that Ubuntu is to be installed in Laptops and = Desktops instead of Windows (XP or Vista). So, what are the issues that don't allow this reality to happen? Unfortunately, only a few of them but hard to overcome... Many people use their PC to run games as well as work and web browsing and = sometimes they spend even more time gaming than doing other stuff. Microsoft created the DirectX. Well done, I even think that I don't have Wi= ndows installed when I am running a game (except when the machine crashes). This created a barrier (that Microsoft wanted) and software houses almost e= very time create only DirectX games. Then, Cedega came with the words that I can't precise but were almost like:= Only Microsoft knows more than DirectX than us. Many guys tried with sad results and I was one of them. I rarely game but I= keep my XP partition in my media center and in my laptop to run a certain = type of software. Games is one of them.=20 The Wine itself was a lot of "failures". That's not Windows you are running= ! That's why uTorrent has on its home page "For Wine, Windows 95 (Winsock2)= , 98/ME, NT/2000, XP, 2003, Vista, and now Mac". But in this case we think we are a user that doesn't play DirectX games or = runs other Windows only software. We need a OS that can install all the drivers of my laptop and I want to br= owse the Internet, chat, listen to music and watch videos. Ubuntu is perfect... I install it on my laptop and in the beginning of the = installation process I was asked for which network card I wanted to use, Br= oadcom or Intel . I said Intel (it was eth1, an Intel 2200BG wireless card)= , entered the SSID, the wpa key and boom, of he goes. When the installation is complete I am asked if want to install the proprie= tary driver of ATI. I say "of course" and everything is done without the ne= ed of expertise of any kind, all you need is to read. That also happens wit= h mp3 codec and others. In this case, what stops me from using Ubuntu or other GNU/Linux distro? I go to any store here in Portugal and only see Desktops and Laptops being = sold with Windows preinstalled. So, the average joe goes and buys his new PC without having the power to de= cide its OS. I myself bought a laptop with Windows XP Media Center Edition with free upd= ate to Vista in its release and the first thing I did when I powered the ma= chine up was deleting all the partitions and installed only Ubuntu. I gave = money to Microsoft and participated in this crappy Windows only world that = we live without wanting and needing to. Other subject: schools. The dream world: Ubuntu, Edubuntu and OpenOffice. The real world: Windows XP and Microsoft Office. We can't stop this... the governments want the children to use XP like in C= lassmate and in the Portuguese child laptop: the Magalh=C3=A3es. First, th= e Portuguese government said that it would be available two versions, XP an= d Caixa M=C3=A1gica (the only Portuguese GNU/Linux distro). I thought "grea= t", Caixa M=C3=A1gica is kinda crappy in comparison to Ubuntu but the child= ren will use free software and the parents and the government (the contribu= tors) will not pay the Windows license and if you want to change to Ubuntu = its easy., the hardware is supported, even the webcam who causes so many tr= oubles to Linux users. They changed their mind... you have two versions, yes, but... XP or dual bo= ot with XP and Linux. (What in God's name!!!) Then I go to my family doctor and they use only XP... I go to the hospital, XP... I go to social security, XP... I'm sic and tired of it but its the truth. How can we change the mentality of a user who knows nothing or only a few about computers if he or she is surrounded by this? We can do little, but we can... I created a blog in Portuguese only dedicated to open source (http://syncmi= nds.blogspot.com) and almost talking about Ubuntu, I am posting only a few = subjects but that's because I'm posting what I think it's necessary, the bl= og is still a baby and I have plenty of other things to do. I talk almost everyday with people to try them changing to Ubuntu and almos= t everyone actually did. I gave them in particular what they wanted: stabil= ity, a 3d desktop with a lot of tweaks, a lot of hardware support out of th= e box, speed, I gave their computers a new life. Of course they are always calling me about this and that but in seconds tha= t situations is fixed, but hey... that happened with Windows. Their users a= re always calling me as well and in a matter of joke I say "I only give sup= port to Linux users" :) Please keep this sentence I wrote in the beginning of the previous paragraph in mind: We can do little, but we can. zakzor@gmail.com --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: thegizmoguy (thegizmoguy) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 04:36:07 -0000 Message-Id: <20081208043608.26098.71191.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> ^Whoa there, don't go bashing MS Office :D As far as i'm concerned Office XP is a legend that has carried me through MANY a paper. Anyways, I agree with what you are saying. Perhaps if I'd have had the opportunity to use Linux sooner than these last couple of weeks I wouldn't be so damn frustrated with it. Yes, the cure for this bug is to get more people involved that can rocket this OS up (to at least beat Macs). In fact, I'm currently considering adding a computer science minor to my current math minor just because of my desire to get into OS design and help Ubuntu/Fedora/OpenSuse/etc. out. The problem I think lies in the fact that XP doesn't really have much of a learning curve....you can turn it on and fumble your way through it quick enough. The only real learning curve comes when you want to be efficient and use ALL the features. Ubuntu, while not difficult to get running, immediately presents a mountain of a learning curve even if the smallest things go wrong. So while I have the patience (but not enough time really) to poke and prod out some solutions to my problems and how to become proficient, many other users have no such attributes. See here: Computing Landscape: Developers, Ultra-Basement-Geeks Server Admins/IT Careers <-------Where Gentoo is geared t= o (only for the brave) Long Time Linux Users <------Where Ubuntu is currently= geared to (great features but not very usable) Power Windows Users/Gamers <------Where an OS should be geared to = (features every category can enjoy but not hard to use) Average Users <---------Where XP is geared= to (little limits but could be better) Children <----------Where Vista/S= e7en/Mac is geared to (hindered, dumbed/watered down, flash-bang) Grandma --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Sart (sart-ua) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 10:33:35 -0000 Message-Id: <20081208103335.11449.67780.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> 2 houstonbofh > Setting up a nice custom Linux machine takes me 2 hours. (10 minutes of > work and 1.5 hours of loading, copying and patching unattended.) With > XP it takes me 6, or 8 if the net is slow. If you want my script, I can > e-mail you a copy. Could you please e-mail it to me?=20 I'm still quite a noob in Linux, but want to know the hard way of getting a= perfect box :) Getting a box with Linux preinstalled is not an option here= in Ukraine. BTW, the problem is indeed in what you (and me, and all other people) know.= When I first installed Linux a couple years ago and tried it, I thought it= to be a nightmare. Tons of questions like "Where is..." and "How do I... "= . Hours of googling and calling Linux geeks I keep in touch with. Now I can use it for my home and office needs quite well, though it is a lo= t for me to learn. The problem is in the heads, not in the OS itself. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: akshay (akshay-sulakhe) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 13:33:17 -0000 Message-Id: <20081208133921.57002.qmail@f4mail-235-231.rediffmail.com> =C2=A0 Please send me the script for Linux.My mail id is kernel2787@rediffmail.com= thanks... On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 houstonbofh wrote : >thegizmoguy wrote: > > > For the autologin in XP watch how fast it can be done: > > > > Start-> Run-> control userpasswords2......can figure it out from there. > >A command line abstraction. Start -> run and a box for a command line >option is not GUI. > > > I'd bet in linux it would be a 50 line config file modification all done > > via the terminal and gedit. > >System -> Administration -> Login Window. Click the "Security tab" and >select the login option and user. Click "Close." This can be done with >no keyboard attached. > >The problem is not what Linux can do, but what you know. You know about >userpasswords2, or at least where to look. You do not know that >autologin is under a security tab. This is an education problem masking >as a usability problem. I will admit that it is not helped by people >posting obscure command line stuff that is hard to understand. > >As to why the devs are not on the user lists... It gets old answering >the same question over and over again. Most of which are answered with >a search. An example is that ample evidence of 8x series nvidia >graphics cards and known issues with the nv driver. That is why I have >a 7950gtx in my system. > >You say you "I don't have the luxury of having a system handed >to me that works." Why not? Either learn the hard way, or get a good >example from Dell. Both have a cost. Was your Windows knowledge free? > >This gets to the heart of bug 1. Microsoft is so common that the >workarounds for the issues they have are well known. Linux workarounds >are hidden, fragmented, and often obscurely written. That is a real >problem, but a different one that what you are talking about. > >-- >Microsoft has a majority market share >https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber >of the bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 14:14:54 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0812080614g22959bbfg2e5bcd02b1834f73@mail.gmail.com> To Gizmo : I have personally set up OpenOffice and Microsoft Office/123 on many computers. First: OpenOffice will read all of MS Office files, *MSOffice will not.* Next, everyone can use OpenOffice, I've given up trying to help users with MSOffice, I now switch them over, on the spot, and I can now do this over the phone. MSOffice is buggy and poorly written. Yes there are some problems with OPenOffice, like doing business cards. Upgrading Ubuntu is a waste of time. Much better to backup and do a new install. That's what USB sticks are for. No one that I've met has more than 2gigs of files. With Ubuntu there is no criminal warning that you can only do "one" install, on one machine. If you can't do the install get some tech that can. *And to repeat Ubuntu is easier to install than any flavour of MS Windows.* Allengg On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 11:36 PM, thegizmoguy wrote: > ^Whoa there, don't go bashing MS Office :D As far as i'm concerned > Office XP is a legend that has carried me through MANY a paper. > > Anyways, I agree with what you are saying. Perhaps if I'd have had the > opportunity to use Linux sooner than these last couple of weeks I > wouldn't be so damn frustrated with it. Yes, the cure for this bug is > to get more people involved that can rocket this OS up (to at least beat > Macs). In fact, I'm currently considering adding a computer science > minor to my current math minor just because of my desire to get into OS > design and help Ubuntu/Fedora/OpenSuse/etc. out. The problem I think > lies in the fact that XP doesn't really have much of a learning > curve....you can turn it on and fumble your way through it quick enough. > The only real learning curve comes when you want to be efficient and use > ALL the features. Ubuntu, while not difficult to get running, > immediately presents a mountain of a learning curve even if the smallest > things go wrong. > > So while I have the patience (but not enough time really) to poke and > prod out some solutions to my problems and how to become proficient, > many other users have no such attributes. See here: > > Computing Landscape: > > Developers, Ultra-Basement-Geeks > Server Admins/IT Careers <-------Where Gentoo is geared > to (only for the brave) > Long Time Linux Users <------Where Ubuntu is current= ly > geared to (great features but not very usable) > Power Windows Users/Gamers <------Where an OS should be geared to > (features every category can enjoy but not hard to use) > Average Users <---------Where XP is gear= ed > to (little limits but could be better) > Children <----------Where > Vista/Se7en/Mac is geared to (hindered, dumbed/watered down, flash-bang) > Grandma > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --=20 If you're considering a Mexican vacation, look at the exchange rate from Canadian $$ to Mex $$(pesos) by going here: http://www.xe.com/ict/ http://picasaweb.google.com/allenggraham/Mazatlan# --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: rusty (jeep-srb) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 02:06:29 -0000 Message-Id: <988859.47514.qm@web111306.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> ________________________________ STOP STOP STOP --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: spandanj (spandanj) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:00:09 -0000 Message-Id: <20081210090010.30002.22943.malone@palladium.canonical.com> In my opinion bug #1 should be: "Catch up to functionality/user-friendliness of Microsoft or Mac" that is if I am correct in understanding that you mean you want to gain market share when you report "microsoft hold on market" as bug #1 Are developers really that oblivious to the simple fact that the only thing that matters in gaining market share is 1) Make things work out- of-box--hardware, common softwares, 2) User-friendliness-- looks and functionality, 3) better features, Ubuntu seriously lacks in user-friendliness/functionality that is found in Microsoft and apple. Few examples from my own experience of using Ubuntu for a year are: 1) Audio setup problem--alsa, pulse, etc is still not solved and that a 'proper' sound system doesn't work out of box like in win xp I had. I don't know what the problem is but it doesn't work Out-of-the-box. 2) featureless file browser compared to Finder in mac. 3) no control panel. 4) video player doesn't work out-of-box. etc. 5) Having to deal with terminal. I could go on for a few more. These drawbacks of holding back Ubuntu to let users utilize and enjoy the "advanced" features that it offers--compiz is the only one that comes to my mind. Again, remember that if the user has to hassle around just to make an advanced feature work on OS, you can't call that an advanced feature! ie. an advanced feature that lacks an easy access by a regular (non-terminal user) user, it's basically non-functional. Do developers agree with me here? The only praise I can give to Ubuntu is it's ideology of open and free software. Although the ideology provides greater freedom, unfortunately, it hasn't proven to be better than closed source in terms of making human-computer interface and experience easier, which is all that matters at the end of the day. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Botscharow (jbotscharow) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:16:57 -0000 Message-Id: <401B988D64064F9E8F4D71BABE5442C9@johnPC> I could make a sarcastix remark about how erudite this comment is, but=20 instead, I'll just ask the obvious question:Stop what? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "rusty" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 8:06 PM Subject: [Bug 1] STOP ________________________________ STOP STOP STOP --=20 Microsoft has a majority market share https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber of the bug. Status in Club Distro: Confirmed Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed Status in Ubuntu: In Progress Status in =E2=80=9Cbum=E2=80=9D source package in Ubuntu: Invalid Status in =E2=80=9Ccasper=E2=80=9D source package in Ubuntu: Invalid Status in =E2=80=9Cdjplay=E2=80=9D source package in Ubuntu: Invalid Status in =E2=80=9Cfirefox=E2=80=9D source package in Ubuntu: Invalid Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Ubuntu: Confir= med Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D source package in Debian: Confirmed Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed Status in Tilix Linux: New Bug description: Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrictin= g=20 access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the=20 ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. Thi= s=20 bug is widely evident in the PC industry. Steps to repeat: 1. Visit a local PC store. What happens: 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software=20 pre-installed. 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. What should happen: 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like=20 Ubuntu. 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and=20 benefits would be apparent and known by all. 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.15/1839 - Release Date: 12/9/2008 = 9:59 AM --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: davidm617617 (david3333333) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 21:07:21 -0000 Message-Id: <20081210210721.19594.44632.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Completely true. Here in northern New Jersey, USA, I couldn't find a computer with Ubuntu. I couldn't find one with any Linux distribution. I couldn't find one with a blank hard drive. I couldn't even find one without Windows XP - they all have Vista. The incredible thing about Microsoft is that they're getting away with forcing Vista down their customers' throats (those guys who created New Coke are laughing at Microsoft for making stupid business mistakes - at least they got rid of New Coke quickly). They're also getting away with charging $500 for Microsoft Office 2008, which mostly has programs most people won't need (most people will only use Word, and occasionally Excel and PowerPoint). Microsoft's incredible mistake is abusing their customers' requirement to buy their products. Microsoft has scared people into sticking with them forever, and has tried to shoot down every competitor they've ever had, and they've succeeded every time (except with Apple, which is starting to do well because of Microsoft's screw-ups). And if you read the Halloween Documents (Microsoft's secret memos about taking down open-source software, which were leaked by an unknown source to Erik S. Raymond - Google it, they're very interesting), you'll see what an evil corporation Microsoft is. Before I'd read it, Microsoft seemed like nothing more than an evil company, but after reading these, I suddenly understood how big and powerful Microsoft is. Microsoft has even scared the computer manufacturers into staying with them. Dell is the only company that offers any other operating system, which is Ubuntu. Everyone else is scared about what Microsoft will do to them. All in all, it seems as though the only company that makes computers for profit and doesn't screw up at it is Apple, which uses the open-source Darwin operating system they created as the base of OS X. Apple is also very willing to let others use Linux on their computers, and puts no restrictions on it. It's impossible to find a computer without Vista on it around here. I've looked everywhere, and it's just not here. Not one with Ubuntu, or even a choice of Ubuntu, or even a choice of buying a computer and not having to pay for Vista. If I buy a computer, I should have the option of purchasing a machine without Windows on it. If Microsoft does try to continue shoving software people don't want down their throats and charging them lots of money for it, they will lose to open-source software. I already know lots of people who have switched to Firefox and OpenOffice.org instead of Internet Explorer and Microsoft Office. They are going to lose, and this bug will be fixed. Maybe not soon, but eventually --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: spandanj (spandanj) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:31:20 -0000 Message-Id: <20081211043121.22075.51901.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Please take a look at the following article: http://www.informationweek.com/news/software/linux/showArticle.jhtml?articl= eID=3D212100714 where it presents causes and solutions to fixing linux. The causes can be summed up as too many choices lead to fragmentation before it leads to or along with innovation. You can't bring innovation if different software/components won't work with each other in the first place. Although open source sounds much better than closed source philosophically, it's implementation to provide user-friendly computer experience is not achieved--IMO, mainly due fragmentation of software. The greatest advantage of open-source philosophy ie. to allow freedom of choice to design as per a particular individual or a group's preference and inspiring innovation, is also it's greatest weakness because it leads to fragmentation at many levels which eventually leads to sub-par user experience. Obviously, in theory, by allowing anyone to contribute in bringing change to the linux software universe, it should bring faster innovation than in a closed-source enviroment where an authority holds power over what changes are allowed. However, open source software (OSS) fails because the changes and innovation are not co-ordinated <-- a direct result of a lack of supreme authority. very good example that I know of is the Audio API -- alsa, pulse, etc. Very annoying. In fact, such fragmentation hinders innovation. Consider the fact that there isn't an audio editor that works under ubuntu 8.04 that supports pulse. Compare that to a universe of audio editors available for windows platform! Software developers working with windows are fully aware and clear about specifications for design because there's only one specification--windows. That is much easier than fitting to not only many but also ever-changing specifications found in linux universe! That is the fallacy of choice. Due to this fallacy, the potential for open source innovation is not realized and leads to a chaotic user experience. What I would like to know is the steps taken to overcome this fallacy. Please list them here. Is FOSS one of them? Open "standards"? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:15:44 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0812110615t5c77da88hd028c5c17fa10fb7@mail.gmail.com> Here again, two old arguments: 1. Linux does not come pre-installed. My answer: are people still buying crappy hardware instead of having it assembled ? Most good techies will install Linux for you, and charge for the labor. In Apple or MS-Windows you pay a heavy price for programs, the profit for the techies is in there. It will *not* cost you less; to buy better hardware. 2. Too many choices, no one standard. True. Otherwise we would all be using MS-Windows with an upgrade or die every 6 months, viruses galore and a blue screen of death every hour . (yes I'm exaggerating) Note, Ubuntu is extremely popular, that's great. But it should never be the only distrro. How many Linux users are there worldwide? Look it up ! Allengg On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 11:31 PM, spandanj wrote: > Please take a look at the following article: > > > http://www.informationweek.com/news/software/linux/showArticle.jhtml?arti= cleID=3D212100714 > > where it presents causes and solutions to fixing linux. The causes can > be summed up as too many choices lead to fragmentation before it leads > to or along with innovation. You can't bring innovation if different > software/components won't work with each other in the first place. > Although open source sounds much better than closed source > philosophically, it's implementation to provide user-friendly computer > experience is not achieved--IMO, mainly due fragmentation of software. > The greatest advantage of open-source philosophy ie. to allow freedom of > choice to design as per a particular individual or a group's preference > and inspiring innovation, is also it's greatest weakness because it > leads to fragmentation at many levels which eventually leads to sub-par > user experience. Obviously, in theory, by allowing anyone to contribute > in bringing change to the linux software universe, it should bring > faster innovation than in a closed-source enviroment where an authority > holds power over what changes are allowed. However, open source software > (OSS) fails because the changes and innovation are not co-ordinated <-- > a direct result of a lack of supreme authority. very good example that I > know of is the Audio API -- alsa, pulse, etc. Very annoying. In fact, > such fragmentation hinders innovation. Consider the fact that there > isn't an audio editor that works under ubuntu 8.04 that supports pulse. > Compare that to a universe of audio editors available for windows > platform! Software developers working with windows are fully aware and > clear about specifications for design because there's only one > specification--windows. That is much easier than fitting to not only > many but also ever-changing specifications found in linux universe! > > That is the fallacy of choice. Due to this fallacy, the potential for > open source innovation is not realized and leads to a chaotic user > experience. > > What I would like to know is the steps taken to overcome this fallacy. > Please list them here. Is FOSS one of them? Open "standards"? > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --=20 If you're considering a Mexican vacation, look at the exchange rate from Canadian $$ to Mex $$(pesos) by going here: http://www.xe.com/ict/ http://picasaweb.google.com/allenggraham/Mazatlan# --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: zakzor (zakzor) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:32:52 -0000 Message-Id: To Allen Graham and everyone else: I have a desktop (media center) and a server, both assembled by me, both running Ubuntu (and like I said before, sadly I have XP in the media center just to run some games... I have to live with this). But like a year ago a friend of mine told me he bought a new desktop and that he went to a small local computer store which I know and he choosed the components. I asked him: How about the OS? The answer was simple: He didn't asked me, he just added the price of the Windows license. This guy bought a laptop later with Vista preinstalled (I suffered the same with one that had XP MCE) but at the same time this guy was a Windows user. But why a Windows user if Ubuntu or other GNU/Linux distro are better? So I made him see the light! It took me about three months but he maintained XP in the desktop because of his family but in the laptop has now Ubuntu only. > -- > If you're considering a Mexican vacation, look at the exchange rate from > Canadian $$ to Mex $$(pesos) > by going here: http://www.xe.com/ict/ > > http://picasaweb.google.com/allenggraham/Mazatlan# > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: spandanj (spandanj) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 07:19:57 -0000 Message-Id: <20081212071958.7657.34415.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> " Free software is intrinsically a better way to build software, I believe. But we should not plan to be judged on our morals, we should expect to be judged on our software. We have to deliver something that LOOKS and FEELS better, then we can expect people to embrace it fully. And once people realise they can have something that is better AND sustainable AND comes with many freedoms, the world will be a fundamentally different place. That is our goal." -- mark shuttleworth source: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Botscharow (jbotscharow) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:51:48 -0000 Message-Id: <20081212065148.4efea8b8@john-desktop> Well said, Mark. I would add that the criteria for whether Ubuntu is better is NOT the opinions ofUbuntu developers or even Ubuntu fanatics, but the number and opinions of the "computer dummies"like me who try Ubuntu Right now, for me, it's pretty much a tie. I use both Vista and Intrepid on my machine, switching back and forth as needed. Some stuff like Firefox actually works better on Vista, while I prefer Intrepid when writing articles. It would be nice to be able to stay in one OS at least most if not all the time. On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 07:19:57 -0000 spandanj wrote: > " Free software is intrinsically a better way to build software, I > believe. But we should not plan to be judged on our morals, we should > expect to be judged on our software. We have to deliver something that > LOOKS and FEELS better, then we can expect people to embrace it fully. > And once people realise they can have something that is better AND > sustainable AND comes with many freedoms, the world will be a > fundamentally different place. That is our goal." >=20 > -- mark shuttleworth >=20 > source: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/ > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: spandanj (spandanj) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 06:26:04 -0000 Message-Id: <20081213062605.31635.48503.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Thomas Paine understood Freedom, when he warned: =20 "Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must undergo the fatigue= of supporting it." --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Botscharow (jbotscharow) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 17:17:48 -0000 Message-Id: <20081213111748.53870c15@john-desktop> On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 06:26:04 -0000 spandanj wrote: > Thomas Paine understood Freedom, when he warned: > =20 > "Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must undergo the > fatigue of supporting it." >=20 the problem with using obscure quotes is that they are, well, obscure. It shows your erudition, but does not really make your point, which is?????? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: spandanj (spandanj) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 20:54:31 -0000 Message-Id: <20081213205431.32295.54611.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> -->Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must undergo the fatigue of supporting it.<-- the problem with using obscure quotes is that they are, well, obscure. It shows your erudition, but does not really make your point, which is?????? --John Botscharow Dear John, did you take a moment to think about how the quote aptly describes the Linux softare philosophy and its application. If you had, it would be very clear to you that blessings of freedom in linux is the diversity in software and ideas, while the fatigue of supporting it would be the endless task of integrating the various softwares and ideas, keeping up with new versions/updates without ever breaking the system. That would probably the most direct meaning that you should have been able to deduct from the quote as it applies to the linux world. Of course, it runs much deeper than that. But, I can't expect you to any deeper because for you the quote is just obscure and erudite. I will not make an assumption that you are either pretentious or unintelligent. Hopefully, you were just too lazy to give it a thought. Now you know the quote is neither obscure nor erudite, but only fitting. I hope you agree. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: kylea (kylea) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 02:50:48 -0000 Message-Id: <20081214025048.31695.27202.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Boys Boys - please play nicely - there is no need to insult each other - we just "give aid and comfort to the enemy". Oh no another quote!! :) Here is the thing - there is "no such thing as a truely free lunch", some where soemtime you will have to pay, here is another one - "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" In the case of Microsoft - we are not really sure they have good intentions to start with, soooo. We have to make out own way. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: spandanj (spandanj) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 03:58:23 -0000 Message-Id: <20081214035823.31695.22063.malone@palladium.canonical.com> you are right, kylea...heh no point in fighting. but they are are all true (the quotes). I looked into fedora 10....reading up on what I need to take care in terms of proper installation and function of hardware. Man, after taking a peek fedora 10 and how difficult they make things for users, I am happy I am with Ubuntu. However, they are the true linux users because they only run on open- source software. Kudos to them. But, in real world, only open source software doesn't cut it. atleast not yet. Ubuntu makes it easy, and doesn't make the user learn the CLI. Kudos to ubuntu. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Botscharow (jbotscharow) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 03:59:54 -0000 Message-Id: <0CDED1416BFE4274A53BD36B28EE2D82@johnPC> free lunch has very little to do with freedom, and freedom most definitely= =20 is not free. IMHO, something that claims to provide freedom for free is=20 something to be very suspicious of. Freedom always has a price. The=20 question is whether we know the price and, if we do, are we prepared to pay= =20 it. Most people who use FOSS use it because it is free. Others avoid FOSS because it is free. To them fre means poor quality. The fact that SOME FOSS offers freedom never crosses their minds. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "kylea" To: Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 8:50 PM Subject: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share Boys Boys - please play nicely - there is no need to insult each other - we just "give aid and comfort to the enemy". Oh no another quote!! :) Here is the thing - there is "no such thing as a truely free lunch", some where soemtime you will have to pay, here is another one - "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" In the case of Microsoft - we are not really sure they have good intentions to start with, soooo. We have to make out own way. --=20 Microsoft has a majority market share https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber of the bug. Status in Club Distro: Confirmed Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed Status in Ubuntu: In Progress Status in =E2=80=9Cbum=E2=80=9D source package in Ubuntu: Invalid Status in =E2=80=9Ccasper=E2=80=9D source package in Ubuntu: Invalid Status in =E2=80=9Cdjplay=E2=80=9D source package in Ubuntu: Invalid Status in =E2=80=9Cfirefox=E2=80=9D source package in Ubuntu: Invalid Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Ubuntu: Confir= med Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D source package in Debian: Confirmed Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed Status in Tilix Linux: New Bug description: Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrictin= g=20 access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the=20 ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. Thi= s=20 bug is widely evident in the PC industry. Steps to repeat: 1. Visit a local PC store. What happens: 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software=20 pre-installed. 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. What should happen: 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like=20 Ubuntu. 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and=20 benefits would be apparent and known by all. 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1846 - Release Date: 12/12/2008= =20 6:59 PM --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: kylea (kylea) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 04:41:37 -0000 Message-Id: <20081214044138.31695.13275.malone@palladium.canonical.com> John - you are right - there is no such thing as a free lunch. One way or another we are doomed to suffer for what will set us free. However here is the point - If reporting of this bug and the "fix" for it is the eradication of Microsoft as a monopoly software vendor on PC's, it behooves all of us to continue to struggle. Good grief I have invested several hundred hours into getting Ubuntu 64bit to work is an acceptable manner. Its not perfect but I will never have to rely exclusively on Microsoft ever again and that is a good thing. There is a future that does not include 6mthly rebuilds and every decreasing productivity as my sparkling new laptop gets filled with junk. It's not about being true Linux users (IMHO) , its about everyone having access to the good value hardware and software so that they can enjoy the benefits of computing and interconnection with others. It's a complete rip off - every new version of Windows requires - guess what an new faster better PC!!! Talk about anti-Trust behaviour (as Americans call it). Bit of a coincidence don't we think! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Botscharow (jbotscharow) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 19:28:19 -0000 Message-Id: <1229282899.6157.15.camel@john-desktop> A standing ovation for the lady. please. Tat was probably the best post I've seen on this lit in quite some time! And, yes, kylea, by our [Americna] definition, MS is guilty of numerous anti-trust violations. The poblem, and the reason why MS has avoided the leal penalties they so richly deserve, is that our judicial system has lost its moral fortitude, unlike the EU Supreme Court And until the American courts regain that fortitude and do what is right, MS will more than likely keep the lion's share of the OS market. In my posts on my blog [http://jbotscharow.wordpress.com for anyone interested], I have talked about this situation, often referring to MS as the Borg of Redmond, an appelation I find most fitting. Trying to get free of MS is about as difficult in the real world as tryin to get free of the Borg in the Star Trek Universe. Maybe even harder. On Sun, 2008-12-14 at 04:41 +0000, kylea wrote: > John - you are right - there is no such thing as a free lunch. One way > or another we are doomed to suffer for what will set us free. >=20 > However here is the point - If reporting of this bug and the "fix" for > it is the eradication of Microsoft as a monopoly software vendor on > PC's, it behooves all of us to continue to struggle. >=20 > Good grief I have invested several hundred hours into getting Ubuntu > 64bit to work is an acceptable manner. Its not perfect but I will never > have to rely exclusively on Microsoft ever again and that is a good > thing. >=20 > There is a future that does not include 6mthly rebuilds and every > decreasing productivity as my sparkling new laptop gets filled with > junk. >=20 > It's not about being true Linux users (IMHO) , its about everyone having > access to the good value hardware and software so that they can enjoy > the benefits of computing and interconnection with others. >=20 > It's a complete rip off - every new version of Windows requires - guess > what an new faster better PC!!! Talk about anti-Trust behaviour (as > Americans call it). Bit of a coincidence don't we think! > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Drinkwater (johndrinkwater) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 15:23:45 -0000 Message-Id: <4947C801.7020209@nextraweb.com> unsubscribe johndrinkwater --=20 John =E2=80=98[Beta]=E2=80=99 Drinkwater | john@nextraweb.com http://johndrinkwater.name/ | --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: kylea (kylea) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 22:03:35 -0000 Message-Id: <20081219220335.4834.92162.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Here is why MS will keep its market share, this bug and the lack of a sensible resolution is an absolute disgrace. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/268502. All the hype and fancy processing power means nothing if the basics don't work and worse no information is provided to fix it. And if someone says the guys are volunteers I'll throw up. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Vadim Peretokin (vperetokin) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 22:22:24 -0000 Message-Id: <6995ca080812191422h1b521267nc0a567780837bc66@mail.gmail.com> Sorry, spamming other bugs isn't a nice way to get attention to one that affects you :). Just the fact that you failed to see "a sensible resolution" shows that you have no idea what is this bug report about or what is being done. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?q?Jo=C3=A3o_Santos_=28jmcs=29?= Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 07:58:55 -0000 Message-Id: <494CA5BF.6030402@jsantos.eu> > Here is why MS will keep its market share, this bug and the lack of a > sensible resolution is an absolute disgrace. > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/268502. > > All the hype and fancy processing power means nothing if the basics > don't work and worse no information is provided to fix it. > > And if someone says the guys are volunteers I'll throw up. > > =20 Are you saying that this bug is worse than any Windows bug? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: kylea (kylea) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 08:53:22 -0000 Message-Id: <20081220085323.24263.31455.malone@palladium.canonical.com> To answer Vadim - sorry this is not spam, My comments go to heart of matter - why is Linux, after so many new versions still so poorly represented on the desktop? Its because IT managers and re-sellers cannot cope with the stupid bugs that constantly require man months to research and resolve. I tell people I am using Linux and all I get is 'man you are brave - you must have a lot of free time'. Attention to my bug - your kidding - I have a work around for my version of this issue - its all the other sorry individuals who really need Linux, I don't need it - I can afford Windows that this comment is for, - complete and utter frustration yes. To answer Jo=C3=A3o - yes and no. MS bugs are a philosophy issue - they are evil and un-repentant, our bugs are unnecessary and turn off the very people needed to grow the customer base. Tell me why Ubuntu is heading toward another major release when the latest and greatest still has some serious issues? Don't get it. Self criticism and the ability to accept it is vital to our future. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Vadim Peretokin (vperetokin) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 13:33:36 -0000 Message-Id: <6995ca080812200533w2066c587s540b69239826ac1f@mail.gmail.com> Criticism is always welcome, but not when phased in a derogatory manner. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 16:45:21 -0000 Message-Id: <494D2121.5090602@hal-pc.org> kylea wrote: > To answer Vadim - sorry this is not spam, My comments go to heart of > matter - why is Linux, after so many new versions still so poorly > represented on the desktop? Its because IT managers and re-sellers > cannot cope with the stupid bugs that constantly require man months to > research and resolve. I tell people I am using Linux and all I get is > 'man you are brave - you must have a lot of free time'. I get lots of comments from people who know nothing of Linux. Most of=20 the biggest fears have not been an issue for years. By your logic, a=20 person in West Texas who has never left the state should determine my=20 European travel plans. > Attention to my bug - your kidding - I have a work around for my version > of this issue - its all the other sorry individuals who really need > Linux, I don't need it - I can afford Windows that this comment is for, > - complete and utter frustration yes. No one needs Linux. Or Windows. They are tools. I pick the best tool=20 for the job, and it is Linux much more often that Microsoft. > To answer Jo=C3=A3o - yes and no. MS bugs are a philosophy issue - they = are > evil and un-repentant, our bugs are unnecessary and turn off the very > people needed to grow the customer base. What? This is the most bizarre statement I have seen in a while! Do=20 you think there are devs out there that Like bugs? Perhaps you should=20 try and understand how software works so you can appreciate how hard it=20 is to fix some bugs. In your case some drivers with some hardware does=20 not work. Which drivers have not been identified, and the bluze tools=20 don't feel like chasing down a problem that isn't there. The kernel=20 devs have lots of bugs to work out, so unless you can tell them exactly=20 where the problem is, they have other things to work on. (Like the=20 massive stability issues in the Hardy kernel that was a real bug to fix)=20 The person responsible for this problem is the hardware vendor that=20 doesn't care about Linux anyway. But if you buy hardware only from=20 companies committed to Linux, THEY will fix your problem. > Tell me why Ubuntu is heading toward another major release when the > latest and greatest still has some serious issues? Progress. And you have to go to a new version to version rev the things=20 you are having problems with. Of course, Microsoft never goes to a new=20 version with open bugs...=20 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/12/ms_patch_tuesday_november/ > Don't get it. We get that. > Self criticism and the ability to accept it is vital to our future. But stomping your feet, yelling, and threatening to hold your breath=20 until we fix it now dammit!; is not. I looked at your bug. You give=20 some good information to help with Triage, and then just pout. If you=20 could tail some logs while doing this and find what program is actually=20 failing and how, it would go to Triaged status faster. That or jump into the next beta, and work on this bug with a smaller and=20 more responsive group. Also you (and that "you" means everyone reading this and nodding) might=20 want to look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/5-A-Day to really move this. Or not. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: zakzor (zakzor) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 05:04:50 -0000 Message-Id: <20081222050451.16631.13509.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Well, post after post and suddenly no more? Looks like houstonbofh shut everyone up. You're right at certain things, but... > I get lots of comments from people who know nothing of Linux. Most of the= biggest fears have not been an issue for > years. By your logic, a person in West Texas who has never left the state= should determine my European travel plans. Kylea doesn't said they should. She said they say it. > No one needs Linux. Or Windows. They are tools. I pick the best tool for = the job, and it is Linux much more often that > Microsoft. No one needs it? Looks like you need them both reading this sentence. > What? This is the most bizarre statement I have seen in a while! > (...) Microsoft creates bugs on purpose. Just not on hardware drivers. Why do you think that several programs are continuously getting new stable versions? Or a new paying release like the old Windows 98 SE? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: zakzor (zakzor) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 22:30:39 -0000 Message-Id: <20081222223039.9997.98281.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Just like to add a pure personal opinion. Windows Vista was a failure. Wasn't it on purpose? Years and years of eXPerience, milestones after milestones of Longhorn. Eve= ryone was expecting a better OS than XP. The result... Worst than Windows ME. Every poll you see on forums that ask people which OS they use, they answer= almost every time that they tried Vista but then installed XP again. (Sadl= y, just 7% are Mac users and 2% are Linux users). In http://www.microsoft.com/brasil/windows/ , the homepage of Microsoft Bra= zil we can read this sentence: "Solu=C3=A7=C3=B5es para empresas: Fa=C3=A7a= m a atualiza=C3=A7=C3=A3o para o Windows Vista sem medo" which means: Corpo= rate solutions: Update to Windows Vista without fear. My God, without fear!!! Microsoft said this. And why? Because they know wha= t they did. That crappy OS. They just weren't expecting this "fear" form co= mpanies. Every company I see that uses Windows here in Portugal has Server = 2003 and XP on the clients, never Vista. That's why that MS is promising th= at Windows 7 will have more stability and will work on slower machines comp= ared to Vista. Then, on http://www.microsoft.com/windows/antivirus-partners/windows-vista.= aspx you can see the list of anti viruses which they claim are compatible w= ith Windows Vista. What about Avira? Didn't they payed for the space? I can just say I am glad I am a Linux user. No more third-party programs to= do simple things that MS don't want me to do. No more reboots after simply= anything. No more major security threats like port 139 open. No more nothi= ng. For me Linux is this. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Soltima (ubuntu-lifesabirch) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 16:23:55 -0000 Message-Id: <20081231162356.31006.79370.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Adobe has complained about Microsoft[1]. Is there any chance there could be Adobe-Ubuntu? I.e., Adobe development tools running on top of Ubuntu. Just imagine if Adobe gave a 50% discount for their Linux Software versions? Or if they paid 2K for Ubuntu support and *all* Adobe software. Ubuntu is amazing, this is the first Linux Distro that I'm recommending to my non-tech friends and family. The more people who use it, the more that will fall in love with it. [1] http://www.google.com/search?hl=3Den&client=3Dfirefox-a&rls=3Dcom.ubuntu%3A= en- US%3Aunofficial&hs=3DNy3&q=3D%22%2450+billion+monopolist&btnG=3DSearch --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Arenlor (arenlor) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 06:07:02 -0000 Message-Id: <20090101060702.12932.59714.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Another year and this bug still haunts us. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alexandros (alexandros-t) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 14:17:48 -0000 Message-Id: <20090101141748.13447.58959.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Well, here are some demonstrations that can help in fixing this bug: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DxC5uEe5OzNQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D_qddueXkD8E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DFEvD9RHlccc (These are just a small number of infinite examples) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Amir E. Aharoni (amir-aharoni) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 14:49:47 -0000 Message-Id: <97f280ea0901010649k2d49fa18h89966217dbbf01cf@mail.gmail.com> 2009/1/1 Alexandros : > Well, here are some demonstrations that can help in fixing this bug: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DxC5uEe5OzNQ > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D_qddueXkD8E > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DFEvD9RHlccc > > (These are just a small number of infinite examples) The first two are demonstrations of desktop effects. Desktop effects *may* be a good demonstration of GNU/Linux' graphics capabilities. They *may* make *some* people *try* GNU/Linux. Desktop effects will *not* make *any* people *stay* with GNU/Linux. The third example is much better, though. People but a computer to copy files to/from USB drives, and Vista indeed sucks badly in this. So: show people they can copy files quickly using GNU/Linux. Show people they can write spreadsheets and emails using GNU/Linux. Show people they can access their favorite websites using GNU/Linux. DON'T waste time showing people they can run Compiz using GNU/Linux. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: kylea (kylea) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 09:41:49 -0000 Message-Id: <20090104094149.7874.28518.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> SOME Excellent News.... After complaining and generally appearing unappreciative here is some news that can be taken as proof we can defeat MS. After playing with and committing to Ubuntu 64bit 8.10, I decided to install Kubuntu 8.10 32bit on an older Toshiba Core 2 laptop for my 16 year old daughter and my wife to use. Well - the install was great - no issues, Flash worked, audio worked, Skype worked (No pulseaudio to get in the way). Daughter uses aMSN for chat, Firefox 24 x 7 and digiKam for processing her images and could not careless about it being Linux. It just worked. She has 5 aMSN tabs going flat out and mySpace and streaming music. Need to get a newer webcam - but according to several posts that should be fine. Next challenge is the wife - have installed Thunderbird and moved all her mail stuff. Just need to check the printer works Lexmark X5110. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:49:41 -0000 Message-Id: <20090104124941.13447.8535.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Ok, i haven't read most of the thread so i might just repeat a lot. I'm in England and few people have even heard of Linux at all. When i ask = someone in a computer shop or an internet cafe owner or a library network a= dministrator or anyone the general public are likely to meet and trust abou= t IT issues they all say the same three things about linux:- 1. It's old 2. It doesn't 'work out of the box' let alone 'plug and play' 3. It's unreliable=20 Now add into the mix the impression that:-=20 4. It's difficult to get help with any problems with Linux The truth doesn't seem to matter when people have had their opinions pre-pa= ckaged for them. =20 I think most linux users can see that 2 & 3 are completely the reverse of the truth but 1 will require the hard-ware manufacturers to be either a little less paranoid or a little more helpful. 4 is inevitable until critical mass is achieved. Regarding 4 - most people know a little bit of how to fix or do something in Windows. A noob might find they get advice from a friend, co-worker or a stranger in a pub might know or someone waiting at a bus stop might help. I think it might be worth wondering why noobs to Linux are so wary of asking help on-line or seeking technical support. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:29:20 -0000 Message-Id: <20090104142921.27596.31296.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Windows is easy to install and Linux is 'too techie'? A common misnomer - quite the reverse of reality. Installing things is never going to be as easy as having everything pre- installed and packaged nicely - which is why Linux must be easy for a total noob to install. Being fast, informative and attractive is also crucial as it will often be the persons first experience of Linux. I have installed Ubuntu and Windows quite a lot of times now and have to sa= y that Ubuntu totally beats Windows in terms of time taken to get a working= desktop and in how useful that desktop is. With Windows there are no offi= ce packages built-in and it tends to destroy any existing data. =20 My latest story... Windows has taken weeks to install and get working properly on my dad's boat. 'Luckily' we had the original legal discs which most stores are reluctant to let you have. After installing Windows we then had to install MS Office and the Windows Service-Packs, again i was 'lucky' to have them on disc. We also had to upgrade the web-browser in order to be able to update other things and install the Windows installer package (?!). Then there was all the flash player, dotNet and other stuff - luckily i had some of these on discs too. We then needed to defragment of course. Only after doing all that did we reach the point that most Linux distros start from and were able to start updating from the internet. In Ubuntu and many other distros you can just click on the 'Mark All Updates' type button and then 'Apply'. All the updates told us what they were for and linux was happy to let us deselect any or all of them. Sometimes it's also worth looking in the System Administration menu for Hardware Drivers but it's unlikely to find anything that isn't updated by the standard package-manager. In Windows almost all the updates are just called 'Security Update' and are compulsory, many force the computer to have to restart (or suffer a recurring pop-up-box that is difficult to work-around) and many couldn't be downloaded at the same time as other ones (at least it sorted that out though by deselecting everything i'd just selected, requiring me to select them again later). Then we updated all the drivers for the hardware and for some of Window's own creations - just right click on 'My Computer' (a childish name - sounds like a stroppy brat) go down to Properties then in the pop-up-box choose the hardware tab and click on the 'Device Manager' button, in the new pop-up-box expand a category by clicking on the cross then right-click on an item and choose 'Update Driver'. Not updating the drivers isn't always necessary unless you want your computer to work well. Not installing the updates/upgrades means a balloon keeps alerting you that you need to update. Many of the Windows updates seem to be for Microsoft's security rather than being beneficial to the user, the ones that are useful often seem due to threats against a flawed design? There's still some data that we still need to copy off the old drive but from obscure locations such as Application Data - Outlook - hunt the psi file (pst?), or boot the old drive and export everything from all those packages that may not have been used in ages and may not have an obvious way of exporting such things as address-books or bookmarks. Linux really needs to install well and mostly succeeds in being so radicall= y far ahead of Windows that to consider installing Windows rather than linu= x is quickly shown to be absurd. =20 In summary Ubuntu would have only taken a couple of hours in total but Windows still i= sn't quite there after weeks of hassle. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:56:03 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0901040656w8fc4f0cgcc338601261d5422@mail.gmail.com> Two excellent posts on how to solve the # 1 bug ! First, note that KYLEA used KUbubtu, KDE, on the laptop, how many of us stick to O-Ubuntu ? (Gnome) Other editions of Ubuntu make sense but overlooked. OK, Tom notes that he heard negative remarks about Linux, in general. Problem here is simple, since it's "free" the stores and tech shops see it as a non-starter, no money to be made, I've heard this lots. But, many techs have asked me to help them with Linux, oops, no money for me here ! Free software is the future, but techs should make money for service , agreed here ?!?! Allengg On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 4:41 AM, kylea wrote: > SOME Excellent News.... > > After complaining and generally appearing unappreciative here is some > news that can be taken as proof we can defeat MS. > > After playing with and committing to Ubuntu 64bit 8.10, I decided to > install Kubuntu 8.10 32bit on an older Toshiba Core 2 laptop for my 16 > year old daughter and my wife to use. > > Well - the install was great - no issues, Flash worked, audio worked, > Skype worked (No pulseaudio to get in the way). > > Daughter uses aMSN for chat, Firefox 24 x 7 and digiKam for processing > her images and could not careless about it being Linux. It just worked. > She has 5 aMSN tabs going flat out and mySpace and streaming music. Need > to get a newer webcam - but according to several posts that should be > fine. > > Next challenge is the wife - have installed Thunderbird and moved all > her mail stuff. > > Just need to check the printer works Lexmark X5110. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 15:36:09 -0000 Message-Id: <4960D769.4010809@hal-pc.org> Allen Graham wrote: > OK, Tom notes that he heard negative remarks about Linux, in general. > Problem here is simple, since it's "free" the stores and tech shops see it > as a non-starter, no money to be made, I've heard this lots. > But, many techs have asked me to help them with Linux, oops, no money for= me > here ! Another myth. There is very good money to be made supporting Linux.=20 Even Free! I tell my clients "I want to save you as much money on=20 products as possible. The means you have more left for me!" They=20 laugh, but also give me more money (for more services) every time. And=20 did I mention referrals as the projects exceed exceptions, and come in=20 under budget? Lee --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:04:29 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0901040804r1995087ek7c6c153ff869dd4b@mail.gmail.com> Good one Lee!! Wish that there were more techs like you, and yes, there is money to be made in the service sector with Linux. We have a long way to go. Allengg On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 10:36 AM, houstonbofh wrote: > Allen Graham wrote: > > OK, Tom notes that he heard negative remarks about Linux, in general. > > Problem here is simple, since it's "free" the stores and tech shops see > it > > as a non-starter, no money to be made, I've heard this lots. > > But, many techs have asked me to help them with Linux, oops, no money f= or > me > > here ! > > Another myth. There is very good money to be made supporting Linux. > Even Free! I tell my clients "I want to save you as much money on > products as possible. The means you have more left for me!" They > laugh, but also give me more money (for more services) every time. And > did I mention referrals as the projects exceed exceptions, and come in > under budget? > > Lee > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Arenlor (arenlor) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:23:37 -0000 Message-Id: <4961FBC9.2040007@arenlor.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I'm a computer technician myself, and I also see Linux as a great way to make money, because the truth behind tech support is that most people are too lazy or afraid to do anything with their computers themselves. I'm self-taught, and I let my clients know that. I am always trying to get them to go FOSS with everything. I sit down with my clients at their computer and go over everything with them, I show them and tech them while I fix their computer, I actually wish my clients would use Linux most of the time, since there it is usually easier to fix, and if I don't already know how to fix something there is usually more information out there about how to fix it. A client recently had the problem that they forgot their outlook password, well they thought they had. I made a quick guess and entered a blank password and got them in. Thunderbird never asks for a password unless one is setup. Just one example of how FOSS is better. Allen Graham wrote: > Good one Lee!! > Wish that there were more techs like you, and yes, there is money to be m= ade > in the service sector with Linux. > We have a long way to go. > Allengg -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJJYfvIAAoJEFh1qvehEcWVoTIP/17nEGB0taEK0r039R/2MDBa 7tJazg0NHGlfvzLVYqbnXH3m68uKLz505ZUt4S/FbEFYy3OE4+Dk2lksk0ptSSPo WsB112m5jKbK5bqNOzeNfPwKZbGIarKorLdsziBRPPBeiHVse1YR2PO1i1LarT48 Y9XDMk7VJoWaD5Na4gOIutOg67qu2yGQA9DtHPOwkkLzS/bHyNYildvCqqB5UZyx IRAIq44IpU7zBiJl2j3yG4MtpsWR/mGkCmKMPjz1qo/TYeukO/hnSubNisO5RjTC eC4f4TmqNrowh35Jrduyy8NlG8Ax6WxO8K8+R+sdil5XQyE070aYzBrEO4LxWtJK rKb4VaOjgrjS50f3EKh1VmQZFX8E+jODPZ6/thDhc3Q59JUAjSeXt9tdOMqW0nxH vDD4vPa7UtJu6iNAPubGXNNjYTrFvpBvS8CMlGoy0VivxiYduQ9MV25HU/VdWxX+ jOo5BA9+NXdcdBbc9NK1Xt3oJjbRqTK3yQOcfXNpwWDWfRemhyHP9XWNXSvx0wPo c8grS4Jq97K6oNwibtuug/uR5K22NqR1cJNagrppR2/uzqMDX/yXg4jfrZNKdHj+ Xv6RKLUnjNzq7Yj7zItR99mUdicF6eRMwY54a1SoZkEB/vWzJaAcr8Bt332Cltuw sXQ7y4hRBoHyC5h2IGIm =3DwBey -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alexandros (alexandros-t) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 14:41:28 -0000 Message-Id: <20090105144129.7390.62603.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> http://austinist.com/2008/12/10/aisd_teacher_throws_fit_over_studen.php http://www.boingboing.net/2008/12/10/austin-teacher-threa.html http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.html "A teacher in Austin, Texas sent an angry, accusatory email to a local Linux collective ("HeliOS Project, which builds and provides Linux computers to disadvantaged or 'exceptionally promising' students") accusing them of piracy for distributing the free operating system and excoriating them for encouraging her students to do the same because she cauht a student for demonstrating a Live CD session. She threatened to have the group's organizer investigated by the police, too." --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 15:36:49 -0000 Message-Id: <49622911.2080407@hal-pc.org> Alexandros wrote: > http://austinist.com/2008/12/10/aisd_teacher_throws_fit_over_studen.php > http://www.boingboing.net/2008/12/10/austin-teacher-threa.html > http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.ht= ml Big follow up to this! http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/character-assasinations-aint-us.html In other words, this issue was patched. :) Lee --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 15:51:05 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0901050751w401d7ea4gbb31d6470c1d4053@mail.gmail.com> We need to add this to the story, yes, there is a happy ending !!!! http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Issue/story?oid=3D719140 On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 10:36 AM, houstonbofh wrote: > Alexandros wrote: > > http://austinist.com/2008/12/10/aisd_teacher_throws_fit_over_studen.php > > http://www.boingboing.net/2008/12/10/austin-teacher-threa.html > > > http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.ht= ml > > Big follow up to this! > http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/character-assasinations-aint-us.html > > In other words, this issue was patched. :) > > Lee > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 15:16:48 -0000 Message-Id: <20090106151648.13533.56721.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> With regards to non-free technical support it must be worth reading through the GPL and other licensing agreements to clarify that this is not against the agreement. There is a question about whether it is desirable for The Linux Communities or right (as in the balance of good and evil in the world) and my personal feeling is that it is. People like paying for support, maybe they feel the question gets answered faster/better/more professionally - who knows? There is a lot of easily accessible free support out there and as long as us tech-support types make people aware of that then surely we can charge what we want? Perhaps the more the better as people clearly seem scared by the prospect of something being free (and therefore see as worthless rather than realising it is priceless). Perhaps we should charge a set fee for call-out-charge and mileage but then charge more hourly for Linux/free-software problems rather than Windows problems? Lol, that would make sense to most consumers and presumably end up costing them about the same as Windows problems tend to take longer, especially if you need to defrag before starting. With regards to the agreement i'm pretty sure that we are allowed to charge - i haven't started doing so yet but hope to start soon. I've only read through the agreement a couple of times , once when i first started using Linux and once trying to translate the US version into English (doing so helped me stay awake(ish) while reading the legal document.) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:35:06 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0901060935n229eaf38y14a4d003a73c5b86@mail.gmail.com> Hola Tom ! you are correct, techs are alloed to charge for service,* their time*, to repair software problems. Notice that Canonical , see: http://webapps.ubuntu.com/partners/ does have paid support and you can become a partner. Canonical, Ubuntu the connection !! Allengg On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Tom wrote: > With regards to non-free technical support it must be worth reading > through the GPL and other licensing agreements to clarify that this is > not against the agreement. > > There is a question about whether it is desirable for The Linux > Communities or right (as in the balance of good and evil in the world) > and my personal feeling is that it is. People like paying for support, > maybe they feel the question gets answered faster/better/more > professionally - who knows? > > There is a lot of easily accessible free support out there and as long > as us tech-support types make people aware of that then surely we can > charge what we want? Perhaps the more the better as people clearly seem > scared by the prospect of something being free (and therefore see as > worthless rather than realising it is priceless). Perhaps we should > charge a set fee for call-out-charge and mileage but then charge more > hourly for Linux/free-software problems rather than Windows problems? > Lol, that would make sense to most consumers and presumably end up > costing them about the same as Windows problems tend to take longer, > especially if you need to defrag before starting. > > With regards to the agreement i'm pretty sure that we are allowed to > charge - i haven't started doing so yet but hope to start soon. I've > only read through the agreement a couple of times , once when i first > started using Linux and once trying to translate the US version into > English (doing so helped me stay awake(ish) while reading the legal > document.) > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:36:16 -0000 Message-Id: <49639690.2020206@hal-pc.org> Tom wrote: > With regards to non-free technical support it must be worth reading > through the GPL and other licensing agreements to clarify that this is > not against the agreement. That is so not a problem. I can charge for my time however I want. If=20 I deliver solutions that include software I have to disclose the source=20 (where it comes from, Ubuntu, Mozilla), and make the source code=20 available. But no one can say I have to work for free. I charge per=20 hour, but offer monthly support contracts for solutions that I deliver.=20 If it has to include Windows, I charge more for a contract as it is=20 generally more work. I also am open with my customers about that. Lee --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alexandros (alexandros-t) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:04:53 -0000 Message-Id: <20090107000456.13533.9903.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dmfx44VA4KU4 There's only one genuine version of Windows. It's called Ubuntu! (Wine defeats the Windows Genuine Advantage test) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:11:49 -0000 Message-Id: <20090107001149.15787.12215.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> 2 posts that crossed in the postings. lee. The reason for reading the GPL is to gain peace-of-mind rather than the usual reason of condemning which would soon be hypocritical anyway. I'm only just re-reading the GPL at http://www.opensource.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.html but haven't got far though i am fairly certain that there's more than just the "When we speak of free software, we are referring to freedom, not price." at the beginning. Thanks Allen, that seems to suggest at getting advertised on the Ubuntu website for providing paid support. Omg a better outcome than i thought i'd get from my post if that is possible although those partners seem like quite large organisations. Anyway this is all just another tangent i think. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Arenlor (arenlor) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 08:54:59 -0000 Message-Id: <49646DE3.5080604@arenlor.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Myself I noticed that my customers don't care too much about the professionalism (not having a single cert/degree myself), as the personalism. They want the face value. I have seen that whole paying for support thing, as some people are scared away by my rate of US$6/h for any computer work. I do notice it's harder doing M$ repair than *nix, but one thing my customers love is that I sit with them and fix their problem, not just repair whatever isn't working. I've gone in recently to fix a printer and ended up teaching my client about FOSS, lulu.com, defragmenting, and having cleaned up their computer, updated all their software, etc. So for anyone out there worried that not having a piece of paper getting in the way, it will for working for companies, but if you work for individuals it shouldn't, since they enjoy the one on one, which they don't get on a forum or chat. Tom wrote: > There is a question about whether it is desirable for The Linux > Communities or right (as in the balance of good and evil in the world) > and my personal feeling is that it is. People like paying for support, > maybe they feel the question gets answered faster/better/more > professionally - who knows? - -- Jerod Lycett Arenlor Productions http://www.arenlor.com/ arenlor@arenlor.com 1016 N High St Duncannon PA, 17020 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJJZG3bAAoJEFh1qvehEcWV7mwP/1XEFuZd+Gu0TQ5nxa3PpbU/ P7WWlxF9jAfbIEouIC6AfSq18QnBG/EERARlyK1UdZ3NPWu3Y1iEno8Dj2iwqeJI hFNlV2uDRXCoCnPNO9hEtLQG3Nmfm3FOY6dGLhJpsko/iAtYX7w5qxTvzTc/TYxD kW3hCtmYpErsTpcrX1V+Q/m3yEGKvKIyrB73f5kWDwu6YPTAViUNvNbmiLw0GLnv 3JsLKVtwBB4EqtuBnI6NzKRJIER95KZ6GXa7vUz4/pusZgnlLbRJm1HfR+qJ/y+U qroqCQCmTP5s96LClTHDCgqheV5zKg74DnA+/WzY1ma+4CC2VHRiR7lnNmqH+AM+ 51bSQ6lcnkfvfmZ93md4cJCvsvGGeLQBKn6QdXHon3+m9R8nD1ys3QGanuEJBcg/ 9V/TSleSpIOBPrctYHr0rAsgXUC/zt3m3M6FDihUcPxB/UHVserHG8mMGFA7qRnD PvNA2iI8JMDAURLe27V1YFemmM50eF5zjAWCJklV7dwp8kNuIOqaVl73h5jnvKbk +k+IFfC+lGaEcTLlcBpGUGW1tpq2docLOCiSryvXJCIR9AgM5YLMJOLhaqg+AUBT /mBhWJSI7osU/80J5HUAnnrmEgFxIo++F2wNXdbtqTtGJEaK54c0K9QtpNv3yq2Q KVQ1yS27riVlHzM0eS5t =3Dc++U -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 18:02:11 -0000 Message-Id: <20090110180211.24490.20633.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Professionalism in terms of well behaved, courteous, achieve objectives and not a 'cowboy'. Wearing a suit and bits of paper somehow seem irrelevant sometimes. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:11:33 -0000 Message-Id: <20090110211135.21452.45750.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> I like these recent posts Alexandros wrote on 2009-01-07 =20 There's only one genuine version of Windows. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/958 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dmfx44VA4KU4 kylea wrote on 2009-01-04: =20 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/945 A good install, well received by a cutting edge teen. Amir E. Aharoni wrote on 2009-01-01: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/944 Added some examples to help 'show off' the desktop, to add to the ones in t= he post just before his. Start with Ofice apps so people can do homework add graphics and a web- browser so we can get it in the Cafe. A little multimedia. An easy install with dual-boot. Plug-and-play. A Live-Cd to try-before-you-buy (or show off with). Still not tipped the balance in our favour? Time to attract Gamers? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: kylea (kylea) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:42:33 -0000 Message-Id: <20090111114234.9724.44892.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> "kylea wrote on 2009-01-04: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/945 A good install, well received by a cutting edge teen." "Next challenge is the wife - have installed Thunderbird and moved all her mail stuff. Just need to check the printer works Lexmark" Good news wife has started using Kubuntu and I got the printer working - following some good posts, took a bit of fiddling but its works great. SO why use MS Windows? - No reasons other than some sites sites (ATO and St George Bank) taht force users to have a windows licence. Going to build a 32 bit Ubuntu laptop next see how it compares to 32bit Kubuntu --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 15:06:53 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0901110706u58d5703ah1a0ae31ef8cd8367@mail.gmail.com> Hola Kylea RE: myth, banks force users to have "Windows" license" . In the U.S. and Canada NO bank forces anyone to have such a license. But NOTE the sites might say that you have to "use" IE$,6.7" Phone the bank and ask. Tell them that the security breach is so great that it's a danger to all. *= This is well documented.* My bank, here in Mexico, "Bancomer" (30% owned by a Canadian Bank) runs ALL of it's secure systems on Linux, and access is by any "secure" browser, Note MS Explorer is NOT considered secure. RE: Lexmark printers, go to Lexmark downloads, they use four (4) different distros of Linux for drivers. The day of MS domination is over. Got a problem, type "ubuntu (problem)" in to Google, ie "ubuntu lexmark driver" IMHO dual boot is no longer needed. Personally, the only time I see "MS Windows" is when someone has a problem. Allengg On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 6:42 AM, kylea wrote: > "kylea wrote on 2009-01-04: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/945 > A good install, well received by a cutting edge teen." > > "Next challenge is the wife - have installed Thunderbird and moved all > her mail stuff. Just need to check the printer works Lexmark" > > Good news wife has started using Kubuntu and I got the printer working - > following some good posts, took a bit of fiddling but its works great. > > SO why use MS Windows? - No reasons other than some sites sites (ATO and > St George Bank) taht force users to have a windows licence. > > Going to build a 32 bit Ubuntu laptop next see how it compares to 32bit > Kubuntu > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > -- http://picasaweb.google.com/allenggraham/Mazatlan# --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 15:52:10 -0000 Message-Id: <496A15AA.1040002@hal-pc.org> kylea wrote: > SO why use MS Windows? - No reasons other than some sites sites (ATO and > St George Bank) taht force users to have a windows licence. There is a patch for this bug at=20 http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Page which will work in a=20 pinch. But I would complain as well. As a matter of fact, I do! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Vadim Peretokin (vperetokin) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 16:54:53 -0000 Message-Id: <6995ca080901110854u5134f935i27d80633fef84be2@mail.gmail.com> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/business/11ubuntu.html?pagewanted=3D1&_r= =3D2 "The technology research firm IDC estimates that 11 percent of American businesses have systems based on Ubuntu. That said, many of the largest Ubuntu customers have cropped up in Europe, where Microsoft's dominance has endured intense regulatory and political scrutiny." --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: traxtermaster (jasonmougeot) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 17:29:49 -0000 Message-Id: <20090111172950.18497.18929.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> For the website that will push you to use IE you can install the mozilla plug-in called agent switcher which allows you to fake IE or other browser. some times it works fine but when it comes to .net stuff it can be a problem. .NET is an other attemp of microsoft to keep people to switch to linux since its a windows application only. I realy think that the linux will become the os of the future. some cell phones and mobile device uses open source software alot of business are switching for stability and security. with the new samba comming with the capability of being a domain controler will hurt the server side of windows. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Arenlor (arenlor) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 17:40:54 -0000 Message-Id: <20090111174055.9638.75168.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> "SO why use MS Windows? - No reasons other than some sites sites (ATO and S= t George Bank) taht force users to have a windows licence." http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/59 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Amir E. Aharoni (amir-aharoni) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 17:49:40 -0000 Message-Id: <97f280ea0901110949p6a77ea3bre1b4ccf65e9665dd@mail.gmail.com> 2009/1/11 traxtermaster : > For the website that will push you to use IE you can install the mozilla > plug-in called agent switcher which allows you to fake IE or other > browser. some times it works fine but when it comes to .net stuff it can > be a problem. .NET is an other attemp of microsoft to keep people to > switch to linux since its a windows application only. I call it "Microsoft Internet". When people ask me why do i use Firefox even on Windows i reply: "Microsoft Internet Explorer, as its name implies, is a browser for Microsoft Internet. I us a genuine web browser to surf the genuine Internet." Every now and then it convinces people to try Firefox. It is more than a joke: Since about 1997 Microsoft tries to treat the Web as its own territory. In 1997 it was ActiveX controls vs. Java applets. ActiveX failed almost completely, as they were terribly insecure and completely unportable. Java applets failed, too, 'cuz despite their portability, their bad performance made them unusable. In that war Flash won, which is quite a problem, as Gnash and swfdec are not yet on par with the proprietary Adobe software. Then Microsoft pushed IE4. It was a success, but for the most part, Firefox is compatible. Standards-incompatible sites are disappearing day after day. Microsoft tries something new now - pushing .NET and Silverlight as a client web platform. Although .NET is a success for server and desktop applications, it fails miserably as a client web platform, so it's not a big thing to worry about. (On a personal note - it is quite a shame to see this: .NET is terrible software-freedom-wise, but not bad at all software-engineering-wise.) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Arenlor (arenlor) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:03:10 -0000 Message-Id: <20090111180310.21452.68880.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> "I us a genuine web browser to surf the genuine Internet." So you use Firefox for IRC, AIM, MSN, XMPP, HTTP, FTP, SMTP, IMAP, POP3, et= c.? No, you surf the World Wide Web, not the web. If you want to get smart = about words, use the correct words. Maybe just point out that Microsoft cla= ims to have an "Internet" Explorer, while Firefox claims simply to browse t= he web. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Amir E. Aharoni (amir-aharoni) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:16:44 -0000 Message-Id: <97f280ea0901111016q27cde51o3acf560023e770fd@mail.gmail.com> 2009/1/11 Arenlor : > "I us a genuine web browser to surf the genuine Internet." > So you use Firefox for IRC, AIM, MSN, XMPP, HTTP, FTP, SMTP, IMAP, POP3, = etc.? No, you surf the World Wide Web, not the web. If you want to get smar= t about words, use the correct words. Maybe just point out that Microsoft c= laims to have an "Internet" Explorer, while Firefox claims simply to browse= the web. IRC - actually, yes, with ChatZilla. MSN - what's that? :) Email - GMail in Firefox. What's IMAP and POP3? I know the difference between the Internet and the Web; most of the people to whom i speak about it do not. They think that the blue e on their desktop and the Internet are exactly the same thing. They need help with the transition from the blue e to the Fox and my way of doing it actually works from time to time. -- Amir Elisha Aharoni heb: http://haharoni.wordpress.com | eng: http://aharoni.wordpress.com cat: http://aprenent.wordpress.com | rus: http://amire80.livejournal.com "We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace." - T. Moore --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: zakzor (zakzor) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 02:40:02 -0000 Message-Id: <20090114024002.26970.73836.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I was a Windows user until XP, then I tried Ubuntu Dapper Drake. I made dual boot in both my laptop and desktop (in that time I didn't had a= server). Time passed and I began to use Ubuntu more and more. More applications came= and I learned more. When Vista came out I didn't tried it. I just heard the critics and used it= only twice in a friends laptop for only a minute or two and I hated it. When Microsoft announced Windows 7 I became curious and this one I wanted t= o try so I downloaded the Ultimate version from peer to peer then got a gen= uine key from Microsoft that works until August. After installation I didn't knew where the files were because its too simil= ar to Vista and I know XP like the palm of my hand but no Vista at all. Of course I discovered very fast. The file system its the same. The names j= ust are different. But the thing that hits me when it started for the first time was the Start= bar. It looks just like KDE. Finally they are improving :) Then it all starts... The bugs appeared. I know this is beta1 but I began to remember those errors from XP (and I'm = talking of XP, not Vista). I suddenly realized why I first changed to GNU/Linux before I started to th= ink of open source. I wanted to get rid of those errors. Then another bugs appeared. That is beta1 and for my surprise my Broadcom A= irForceOne Wireless card worked out of box but not the video card. Windows Update told me that there was the driver available for download and= I said "Great!", Windows will install the driver for me. So I said yes. After rebooting the laptop panel just began to flash every half a second an= d I couldn't see anything so I rebooted and added and external monitor but = that panel flashed also. I pressed F8 in boot and choosed "Last Well Known Good Configuration"... We= ll, It worked. Sort of. The other hardware updates (for my card reader) needed to be installed manu= ally. and the video card I needed to downloaded the Vista driver from ATI/A= MD website and it worked just fine. So... the driver I downloaded was meant to work on Vista. There were no dri= vers for 7. And Windows downloaded a driver that said it was for Radeon Xpr= ess 1100 (my laptop video card) and it didn't worked. I don't care this is beta... this is a serious bug. A bug that sounds just = like Microsoft. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: zakzor (zakzor) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 03:37:21 -0000 Message-Id: <20090114033722.30008.53280.malone@palladium.canonical.com> About the subject you were talking about... calm down guys. We're not at wa= r. But... > So you use Firefox for IRC, AIM, MSN, XMPP, HTTP, FTP, SMTP, IMAP, POP3, = etc.? (...) HTTP??? So? What's the World Wide Web for you? And for IRC you have ChatZilla like Amir said before For AIM just go into you Gmail inbox page, there's an option there For MSN (Messenger) just login to http://www.ebuddy.com - For these last 2 there's also an extension called Now Playing X. In this = case your are not using the WEB For XMPP: SamePlace Instant Messenger Firefox extension. For FTP use FirefTP And for POP3/SMTP/IMAP use Simple Mail. So... You open this so called WEB browser and you use all these protocols. I don't understand. Just download a real web browser from this link: http://www.ie7.com --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: zakzor (zakzor) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 04:15:23 -0000 Message-Id: <20090114041524.18264.61843.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> I need to add a few words to the previous post. Amir said a wrong sentence saying "I know the difference between the Intern= et and the Web" because it is the same thing. This is normal... I said "WEB browser" in the end of the other post wanting= to write "WWW" and my fingers just slipped. The Web is the Internet. It is the connection system. The hardware, the con= nection protocols, the layers and all that stuff. It is simply a network of= networks. The World Wide Web is a connection to the port 80 or 8080 of a web server that gives the user access to information (eg. html) and this was not the first protocol being used on the Internet. Firefox is a Web browser, not a WWW browser. It does not stick to those connections. You can download a file from an FTP server or ever browse one (even with username and password) without any extension (like FireFTP). Those ones just add the possibility to upload files). If you just browse the WWW. Use Lynx, it's perfect for it :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:23:44 -0000 Message-Id: <20090114152344.30094.563.malone@palladium.canonical.com> I just liked Amir's original play on words that a non-techie can understand. Even if it's pedantically slightly wrong from a techie view-point - that's not the issue. The issue is trying to get people using Free Software and eventually to leave Microsoft behind completely. If it's only techie types that are allowed to have their say in these forums then it's going to keep Linux in the minority. People often say they will stick with Windows because they "just want something that works out of the box". Clearly these people are completely clueless and not at all techie. A witty quip like Amir's is more likely to work than pedantic 'brow-beating'. Lets lighten up and make this a place people enjoy being for fun :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:00:25 -0000 Message-Id: <496E0C19.1070500@hal-pc.org> Tom wrote: > People often say they will stick with Windows because they "just want > something that works out of the box". Clearly these people are > completely clueless and not at all techie. A witty quip like Amir's is > more likely to work than pedantic 'brow-beating'. Funny that you should mention that. I provide managed Ubuntu desktops=20 (We refer to them as kiosks) to hotels for the business center. (They=20 just work) In one hotel, the manager ordered one for the back office=20 people to look up food, and things to do... We were talking about=20 future stuff and I mentioned the word Linux. The manager says "Oh, I=20 hate Linux." Really? Do you have Tivo? And you know those two=20 desktops you like so much? Linux. "Really? But they have the=20 Internet, and they are so easy... I thought Linux was hard..." Lee --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: zakzor (zakzor) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:15:36 -0000 Message-Id: <20090114201536.30008.42640.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Quoting Tom > I just liked Amir's original play on words that a non-techie can understand. So did I !!! I just corrected all those terms because all this was a mess. It was my first post on this subject. I posted one about Windows 7 and then I saw all that that seemed like war to me. Quoting Arenlor: > "I us a genuine web browser to surf the genuine Internet." So you use Firefox for IRC, AIM, MSN, XMPP, HTTP, FTP, SMTP, IMAP, POP3, et= c.? No, you surf the World Wide Web, not the web. If you want to get smart = about words, use the correct words. Maybe just point out that Microsoft cla= ims to have an "Internet" Explorer, while Firefox claims simply to browse t= he web. Quoting Amir: > I know the difference between the Internet and the Web; most of the people to whom i speak about it do not. What I did was just adding techie knowledge to this conversation since it w= as already in this terms. Just for everyone to understand the meaning of the Internet/Web and the WWW. Tom, you said "Lets lighten up and make this a place people enjoy being for= fun :)" and you're absolutely right. In the beginning of my first post abo= ut the web I said "...calm down guys. We're not at war." This is an open space for knowledge and ideas to be shared. The goal is to correct a bug and that bug is that Microsoft has a majority = market share. The issue is that in here (launchpad) we don=C2=B4t see the admins and the = moderators like in the common forums always criticizing, moving posts and d= eleting others. In here we "almost" live in Anarchy. We must rule ourselves. Kahn and Cerf created the TCP/IP Protocol when ARPANET already existed (and= that's where the name Internet ever appeared for the first time). The cybe= r space was created but we needed to use payed, closed source software to u= sed it. Then, Richard Stallman created GNU to set us free in the terms of the OS. C= ongrats of course also to Linus Torvalds who created the Kernel. A final step was needed... this one where we are... Launchpad. Mark Shuttle= worth created this Open space for everyone to express their ideas (I'm refe= rring of course in this bug #1 forum in particular because this Launchpad n= ever ends) only with the Open Source philosophy... let's share! I believe that everyone that posts here have the same goal and that is to c= orrect this bug. If you do not please write anywhere else. I said "almost" Anarchy because i= t's clear that everything has it's place here. In order to correct this bug we do not need to attack MS and create "Easter Documents". We must join our forces to share good ideas in order to make people to try Ubuntu and if possible stick only to it. I made this happen quite a few times. First a Live CD. Then a dual boot. Then Ubuntu only. It works. Just take one step at a time. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 21:54:19 -0000 Message-Id: <20090114215420.26874.28943.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Lol, i'm sorry i blew off like that. My posts are after over long and quite 'rant'y so it was quite hypocritical. I notice that adverts are seldom accurate (and sometimes seem to be complete lies) so rather than getting defensive about some of the preposterous lies and condemnation we face its good to have quick quips like that ready. Dealing with it through humour has got to be more of a winner than my usual responses. I'm finding that the plug-and-play couples well with the Live-boot (sadly the wubi too) & the amusingly mis-named 'Start button' are my winners so far. Amir's joke about Microsoft IE being restricted to M$ is just funny (& has more truth than many adverts). I finally got around to clicking the http://www.ie7.com link and that was funny too, thanks Tiago :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: zakzor (zakzor) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 04:36:55 -0000 Message-Id: <20090115043656.8082.69087.malone@palladium.canonical.com> I just offered mentorship to this bug relating the ubuntu-pt team (the Portuguese LoCO team). I use Ubuntu since Dapper Drake (that is 6.06, so June 2006) and only in 2008 I started to write in this forum because it was when I thought I had the required knowledge to it because I never used GNU/Linux before. Now I'll take this step further because this bug affects all distros, so it affects all LoCO teams and I realized that my work made here has not been "crap". If any of you can say the opposite, I'll retract my offer of mentorship. In http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentoring we can read: > Mentorship refers to a developmental relationship in which a more experie= nced person helps a less experienced person, referred to as a prot=C3=A9g= =C3=A9, apprentice, mentee, or (person) being mentored, develop in a specif= ied capacity. In https://help.launchpad.net/Teams/Mentoring it says: > Choosing a bug or blueprint The first step is to choose a bug or blueprint that you're willing to help = a newcomer with. Good candidate bugs and blueprints are: 1. a relatively straightforward piece of work for someone who wants to j= oin one of your teams 2. something you know how to fix or implement 3. relevant to the work of one of one of the teams of which you are a me= mber.=20 About #2. Of course I don't know how to fix or implement this bug. I wish! But I think we are getting there... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:00:54 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0901142100jc58602as1193ddb8c48b4aa7@mail.gmail.com> *Si ! Tiago, y bueno !* On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 11:36 PM, Tiago Ribeiro wrote: > I just offered mentorship to this bug relating the ubuntu-pt team (the > Portuguese LoCO team). > > I use Ubuntu since Dapper Drake (that is 6.06, so June 2006) and only in > 2008 I started to write in this forum because it was when I thought I > had the required knowledge to it because I never used GNU/Linux before. > > Now I'll take this step further because this bug affects all distros, so > it affects all LoCO teams and I realized that my work made here has not > been "crap". > > If any of you can say the opposite, I'll retract my offer of mentorship. > > In http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentoring we can read: > > Mentorship refers to a developmental relationship in which a more > experienced person helps a less experienced person, referred to as a > prot=C3=A9g=C3=A9, apprentice, mentee, or (person) being mentored, develo= p in a > specified capacity. > > In https://help.launchpad.net/Teams/Mentoring it says: > > Choosing a bug or blueprint > The first step is to choose a bug or blueprint that you're willing to help > a newcomer with. > Good candidate bugs and blueprints are: > 1. a relatively straightforward piece of work for someone who wants to > join one of your teams > 2. something you know how to fix or implement > 3. relevant to the work of one of one of the teams of which you are a > member. > > About #2. Of course I don't know how to fix or implement this bug. I > wish! But I think we are getting there... > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > -- http://picasaweb.google.com/allenggraham/Mazatlan# --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: zakzor (zakzor) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:31:53 -0000 Message-Id: <20090115053153.2147.77738.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Thanks a lot for the words of appreciation Allen but unfortunately you made the same mistake as almost anyone :) Portugal is a very small country making frontier to Spain which both make t= he Iberian Peninsula but its language is different from Spanish and it is f= or example spoken in Brazil. You can see in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_language that it is = the 6th most spoken language in the World and the 3rd in the western. I need to excuse me about writing this post about two things. First is to Allen. I'm glad for your post. A lot. I just wanted to correct = this that happens a lot :) Second to everyone. I previously said "I believe that everyone that posts h= ere have the same goal and that is to correct this bug. If you do not pleas= e write anywhere else. I said "almost" Anarchy because it's clear that ever= ything has it's place here." First I was to send an email just to Allen but then I thought that everyone should see this because this is knowledge and I wanted to shared it with everyone. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Karthick (samratselva2009) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:16:49 -0000 Message-Id: <20090115131649.1468.56763.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Hi Folks, Kill all the other linux distros and merge the rest of the unix distributions we will get a powerful beast of unnatured that can competete and get rid of microsoft entirely from the markrt --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:43:16 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0901150843m2b21a75j5b8a8710076526a9@mail.gmail.com> This "popular" blog has something to say about UBUNTU, here: 10 Things That WON'T Happen In 2009 | Hardware & Software | bMighty.com --=20 http://picasaweb.google.com/allenggraham/Mazatlan# --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: zakzor (zakzor) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 18:29:17 -0000 Message-Id: <20090115182917.2147.94495.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Allen, there it is said that one of the "10 Things That WON'T Happen In 2009" is that they "predict people will continue to choose Windows". Unfortunately, we all know that's the truth. But then they comment that "Windows outsells Linux in the netbook market, perhaps because it's simply more familiar to users than Linux" and "there are plenty of files and data that only work in Windows". As the FOSS movement grows up we began to see more friendly users OSes (in all senses) and more applications that can provide the ability to open and modify proprietary files like OpenOffice or GIMP. Continuing this evolution we'll get there. Just not this year. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 19:44:53 -0000 Message-Id: <20090115194454.7072.52727.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I just prefer using an OS that works for me rather than one where i often felt i worked for the OS. Simple things like racing to print something out for a meeting to find the OS had decided to reboot. Sudden slow downs when my boss wanted something 'Now d@#n it NOW' - because the OS decided to update rather than letting me let it do that later, in my lunch-break. Quick Launch bar with a 3 item limit. Defrags! Stress about virii err viruses errr. A friend was just showing me something on his machine and the whole system froze - Ahh yes i remember Windows Perhaps i should seek counselling after years of abuse from Windows ;) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 22:10:28 -0000 Message-Id: <1232057428.28401.30.camel@JnS-002-K7> > This bug is also very spread in Spain, I try to get a non OS computer for= my sister in law, you should see the faces of the sellers going blue after= my request (BODS blue to be precise. > I=C2=B4m working in this bug refusing to become a free tech support for w= indows. if somebody comes to me to fix something windowes-related I politel= y say that the only support I give is to Linux and Linux related products. > If somebody is telling me to install pirate software I blantantly refuse = and I told them about the free (on both senses) software. > If a friend gives me a crushed computer to fix I install Ubuntu with no m= ercy as this is my fee. > Also I recommend my friends to install free softare in their windows mach= ines, Firefox and Open Office mainly, so they got the flavour of it. > The best doesn=C2=B4t meant perfect but Linux could be better and better,= let=C2=B4s market it as it deserves. Hello again, everyone. Just chiming in to report back my progress while struggling to patch this bug once and for all. I'd like to thank blackghost for his brilliant suggestion because it works like a charm. I've convinced quite a few people to make the switch by now (and I'm personally assisting them with any FOSS-related problems) and here's the results: * non-techies are impressed and soon love *buntu for the way it works * techie converts instantly become vocal FOSS advocates and supporters My client list includes friends (recursively), relatives and even 2 bosses of a small business near my residence (where I'm a "quid pro quo" admin in my spare time), all of them daily using their machines for common tasks without having any major issues. I'd like to thank all the good guys (Mark included) who made this possible for all their hard work once again and hopefully offer at least a modest amount of motivation to keep it up by reassuring them many people really appreciate it. I can see we're on the right track and in the long run M$ $hitware (or any other proprietary crap) doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell, we just need to keep doing what we do and let the time sort out the mess. As I see it, all that keeps these bastards up and running are all those stupid catch 22s where we can't make any real difference as it's not a problem of our stuff. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alexandros (alexandros-t) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:54:12 -0000 Message-Id: <20090122135412.9719.92668.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Is it possible to get your money back from a pre-installed copy of Windows if they came with a new PC? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Vadim Peretokin (vperetokin) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:06:35 -0000 Message-Id: <6995ca080901220606o6b85e2aah44a84fb4a62b14@mail.gmail.com> Yeah, but it's a pita. Google about, there will be a few examples documented. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:10:05 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0901220610i14cf4ea4u6bfffe2714a8b63d@mail.gmail.com> This is an old question, that has many answers. Technically yes. Did you agree to the EULA ? Did you "refuse" the EULA when prompted ? If you accepted and ran Windows, the answer is no. Did MS Windows come with some original disks and a "key" ? If not, forget it. Did MS Windows come with "recovery" disks ? Here it gets tricky. Which country did you purchase the PC ? So, there is no easy answer. Remember, the dealer, the manufacturer all make money on the sale of the O/S. If you buy a PC with Linux installed there is no refund, since the dealer will charge for installation, only. Allengg On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Alexandros wrote: > Is it possible to get your money back from a pre-installed copy of > Windows if they came with a new PC? > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --=20 ....how to switch to Linux http://www.bmighty.com/hardware_software/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=3D2129= 00166 http://picasaweb.google.com/allenggraham/Mazatlan# --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Sart (sart-ua) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:12:33 -0000 Message-Id: <20090122141234.12715.24627.malone@palladium.canonical.com> 2 Alexandros Theoretically - yes. There is a point in EULA according to which you may cl= aim your money back. Practically - it depends on the country you are in. In some countries it is= totally impossible (Ukraine, Russia and other ex-USSR countries are certai= nly in the list). And in those you can do this - it is a terribly difficult= task. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:10:46 -0000 Message-Id: <20090122151047.17100.19860.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Microsoft slashes up to 5,000 jobs http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/22/technology/microsoft_jobs/ Excerpt: "Software maker Microsoft announced Thursday it will cut up to 5,000 jobs in the next year and a half, or 5.5% of its global workforce, citing further deterioration of global economic conditions. The company also posted lower fiscal second-quarter earnings that missed analysts' forecasts. Microsoft will slash 1,400 positions immediately, with the rest of the cuts coming by June 2010. The company said it will save about $1.5 billion in operating expenses and $700 million in 2009 capital expenditure." I note that http://www.thestreet.com/story/10459205/1/microsoft-misses- will-slash-jobs.html specifically mentions netbooks as a contributing factor. Keep up the pressure on the OEMs; we need Linux as an option on the netbooks (and Ubuntu specifically, of course ;) And keep up the good work; we need to be able to have perfect 'just working' installs on them for machines that are not specifically Ubuntu preloaded (e.g. Acer Aspire One) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Adrien Cordonnier (adrien-cordonnier) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:08:02 -0000 Message-Id: <20090122160802.13782.95315.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Theoretically, it is possible, in practice, it is hard or impossible. Last year in France, several trials were won by consumers asking for a refund. Trials are becoming more and more numerous as the French Linux Association (www.aful.fr) published a refund guide on www.racketiciel.info. Other international actions are listed on www.racketware.info. The French Linux Association is aiming as optionality rather than refund. Consumers should have the choice to pay for pre-installed software (then they get an activation code) or not to pay. In the latter case, pre-installed software cannot be decrypted and activated and are thus unusable. Tiebreaker: What will be Microsoft market share if consumers have to buy Windows licence before installing Ubuntu and its amazing features? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: jaypmcwilliams (jaypmcwilliams) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 06:58:11 -0000 Message-Id: <20090123065812.9804.5058.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Well, I agree that it's VERY hard to get stores to realize that selling PC's with FREE software is difficult to do, it's harder to get the general public to believe that there are things out there for free. They get scared because Microsoft tells them to be. So, My partner & I started a NEW business, a few years ago, doing LINUX ONLY!!! www.Lin-U- Over.com . We help educate the public while migrating people to FREEdom. I heard Microsoft announced they were going to start charging for updates & now they've announced laying off 5000 people. The reason Microsoft is out there is advertising. Do you really think Microsoft would even exist if LINUX was on TV? NO! Everyone, in our area, read our adds & want MORE. On top of that, we keep the rates SO low Microsoft businesses can't keep up. The only problem is, people expect high prices & we DON'T charge for LINUX, just our time. They LOVE that & WE LOVE THEM. Bottom line, Microsoft has always been about money. There idea of development is how much they can steal & get away with before paying out. Vista was so bad, they have to fool people into thinking it was something else (mojave). It's pretty, yes, but not functional. Support, NON-EXISTANT. You can purchase a computer without MS on it, but only on- line or phone. I truly believe it is now the responsibility of the public to shop around, be informed & open their minds. At times I believe them to be LEMMINGS "If everyone else has windows, than so should I." I also believe it is our responsibility to educate our fellow human "Humanity To Others". My only real question is, "How can we begin advertising LINUX on Radio, TV & stores"? Please tell me & I would be happy to help. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: ^rooker (rooker) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 07:19:46 -0000 Message-Id: <20090123071946.9804.63828.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> There's a collection of experiences about getting a refund for your windows= installation, written by Fellows of the "Free Software Foundation Europe" = (FSFE): http://wiki.fsfe.org/Windows-Tax_Refund It currently includes several countries in Europe and details about how to = deal with individual vendors. If someone has additional information to add there, that'd be great, too. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 16:42:41 -0000 Message-Id: <4979F381.6090105@hal-pc.org> jaypmcwilliams wrote: > "How can we begin advertising LINUX on Radio, TV & stores"? Please tell > me & I would be happy to help. The problem is that advertising is expensive. I will spend the money,=20 but only to promote my business. If I promote my business, and some of=20 my vendors, I can get co-op money. There is no Linux co-op money. What=20 we need is a new "open source" project that does advertising. If every=20 geek sent in a buck, we could do major national adds. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?TWFydGluIEJvxb5pxI0gKG1hcnRpbi1ib3ppYyk=?= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 23:50:09 -0000 Message-Id: <1232754609.8485.70.camel@martin-laptop> Mozilla had an ad in NYT in 2004 when they released Firefox 1.0, funded by donations FF users. I don't know how much did this add to the actual usage, but in my country there was no ad and we're supposed to be leading one of the leading countries in Europe (in Slovenia above 50% users are using FF). I'm still trying to figure how this happened and if other software could follow the same path. The problem with advertising a Linux distribution is that, every 6 months you get a new release. I think that this would demand an advertising model that even proprietary software companies would have difficulties to keep up with. Maybe every LTS could be advertised in traditional media. The problem is that advertising Ubuntu beyond the circle of computer power users would in a consumer blowback as it recently occured with MSI Wind netbooks and the epic fail of a student with preloaded Ubuntu Dell laptop. It's not that Linux is not ready for the desktop, users are not ready for Linux. And how to make them ready for it is the main question here and the first step towards good advertising of Linux. Martin Dne 23.01.2009 (pet) ob 16:42 +0000 je houstonbofh zapisal(a): > jaypmcwilliams wrote: >=20 > > "How can we begin advertising LINUX on Radio, TV & stores"? Please tell > > me & I would be happy to help. >=20 > The problem is that advertising is expensive. I will spend the money,=20 > but only to promote my business. If I promote my business, and some of=20 > my vendors, I can get co-op money. There is no Linux co-op money. What = > we need is a new "open source" project that does advertising. If every=20 > geek sent in a buck, we could do major national adds. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Pyper (jpyper) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 01:06:13 -0000 Message-Id: @Martin You make some good points about Firefox. Mozilla last year broke a record for most downloads of a single program. There is one thing though to realize. Just because someone downloads a program such as Firefox, it doesn't mean the program is being actively used. Some people see it different or not compatible with some websites. Because of it being different from Internet Explorer, people are scared of change. As for advertising Linux distributions such as Ubuntu as a new release every 6 months is kind of overkill. Plus, TV is not the only answer. I have a friend that works at the local rock radio station here in Seattle. He told me that radio advertising is way cheaper than TV advertising and reaches a much larger audience when advertised during the AM morning drive and/or the afternoon drive home shows. Now you made an excellent point about advertising the LTS releases. My thought was to show that every 6 months there is a on schedule 'service pack' release to upgrade and improve the already great software that they already have. Also, the advertising could take a direct stab at Microsoft by pointing out that each new 'service pack' or 'upgrade' release won't cost $100 to obtain. It's completely free. Some people believe that open source programs aren't very good because the end user isn't paying money to get it. It's an odd concept to me, but I can see how some could be that way. They need to experience it before making any judgement calls. How about setting up test kiosks in some malls/gallerias. Could prove to be interesting. This is just a tiny taste of ideas I have and would like to see tried by the community. Take your laptops with Linux installed on it and show the diehard Windows users that you can do what they do, and you have all the tools to do it easily and for free. Advocate open source, but don't force it on people. Inform them about it, what it could do for them, how easy it is to perform various tasks and so on. John Pyper TrigaTronic Designs, L.L.C. Kent, WA, USA BaD_CrC on Freenode IRC On 1/23/09, Martin Bo=C5=BEi=C4=8D wrote: > Mozilla had an ad in NYT in 2004 when they released Firefox 1.0, funded > by donations FF users. I don't know how much did this add to the actual > usage, but in my country there was no ad and we're supposed to be > leading one of the leading countries in Europe (in Slovenia above 50% > users are using FF). I'm still trying to figure how this happened and if > other software could follow the same path. > > The problem with advertising a Linux distribution is that, every 6 > months you get a new release. I think that this would demand an > advertising model that even proprietary software companies would have > difficulties to keep up with. Maybe every LTS could be advertised in > traditional media. The problem is that advertising Ubuntu beyond the > circle of computer power users would in a consumer blowback as it > recently occured with MSI Wind netbooks and the epic fail of a student > with preloaded Ubuntu Dell laptop. > > It's not that Linux is not ready for the desktop, users are not ready > for Linux. And how to make them ready for it is the main question here > and the first step towards good advertising of Linux. > > Martin > > Dne 23.01.2009 (pet) ob 16:42 +0000 je houstonbofh zapisal(a): > >> jaypmcwilliams wrote: >> >> > "How can we begin advertising LINUX on Radio, TV & stores"? Please tell >> > me & I would be happy to help. >> >> The problem is that advertising is expensive. I will spend the money, >> but only to promote my business. If I promote my business, and some of >> my vendors, I can get co-op money. There is no Linux co-op money. What >> we need is a new "open source" project that does advertising. If every >> geek sent in a buck, we could do major national adds. >> > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing > access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the > ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. T= his > bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 14:44:59 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0901240644h6f9acd9p5f0fb5822521d63d@mail.gmail.com> *And is there a business plan that involves making money to pay for advertising ?* Allengg On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 6:50 PM, Martin Bo=C5=BEi=C4=8D wrote: > Mozilla had an ad in NYT in 2004 when they released Firefox 1.0, funded > by donations FF users. I don't know how much did this add to the actual > usage, but in my country there was no ad and we're supposed to be > leading one of the leading countries in Europe (in Slovenia above 50% > users are using FF). I'm still trying to figure how this happened and if > other software could follow the same path. > > The problem with advertising a Linux distribution is that, every 6 > months you get a new release. I think that this would demand an > advertising model that even proprietary software companies would have > difficulties to keep up with. Maybe every LTS could be advertised in > traditional media. The problem is that advertising Ubuntu beyond the > circle of computer power users would in a consumer blowback as it > recently occured with MSI Wind netbooks and the epic fail of a student > with preloaded Ubuntu Dell laptop. > > It's not that Linux is not ready for the desktop, users are not ready > for Linux. And how to make them ready for it is the main question here > and the first step towards good advertising of Linux. > > Martin > > Dne 23.01.2009 (pet) ob 16:42 +0000 je houstonbofh zapisal(a): > > > jaypmcwilliams wrote: > > > > > "How can we begin advertising LINUX on Radio, TV & stores"? Please te= ll > > > me & I would be happy to help. > > > > The problem is that advertising is expensive. I will spend the money, > > but only to promote my business. If I promote my business, and some of > > my vendors, I can get co-op money. There is no Linux co-op money. What > > we need is a new "open source" project that does advertising. If every > > geek sent in a buck, we could do major national adds. > > > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --=20 ....how to switch to Linux http://www.bmighty.com/hardware_software/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=3D2129= 00166 http://picasaweb.google.com/allenggraham/Mazatlan# --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: jaypmcwilliams (jaypmcwilliams) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 19:26:07 -0000 Message-Id: <20090124192608.9804.21638.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Well, short of money, I see a very good way to create a demand that will filter up & down. Everytime you go into a store that sells computers, ask which ones have LINUX pre-Installed. If they ask what that is, you tell them. If they have some, find out more & thank them. If wee all do this, the people around us will listen & the stores will tell distributors. That's how Microsoft did it, why can't we. When you visit a computer website, send an email asking about which models have LINUX. That's how we got it started in our area & spreading. It's FREE & we can ALL take credit for it while using our dollar to buy things we want for LINUX. What do you think? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:24:33 -0000 Message-Id: <20090125132434.20846.13741.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Newspapers, radio and tele all depend on having good stories. Get free advertising by setting up a good story for them to report on and contact a couple of reporters so they know when and where to be to get the story. Preferably about 1 story per month. This works most easily with local newspapers. Local 'rags' in England like to get photos of the town mayor who will often jump at the chance of visiting a new, innovative 'start-up' (or pre-start-up) businesses, especially if it gives him/her a good positive 'photo-opp'. Getting a couple of news-reporters on your side (aswell as getting the mayor onboard) can be a huge help in the future of your business. Note that newspaper articles with pictures and/or that take up 1/2 or 1/3rd of a page are more likely to be spotted but anything is better than nothing. Opening ceremonies, trade-fairs and other 'big events' are preferable (Cava costs =C2=A35 but explodes like champagne. A car-park with a canopy and bunting can look too posh sometimes) but again anything is better than nothing. At one place we got a photo of the inside of the office in the local rag but there wasn't enough room for the photographer, both workers and whoever was visiting, so me and Adrian stood outside while they took the photo-opp. Linux is so unusual that there are bound to be some hilarious gaffs in the first few stories but don't worry too much as future articles may begin to clear up confusions, also people's interest might be piqued. Try to keep articles to a single topic so that there's more potential for more articles in the future. When you get an article published keep a cutting of it and note the name of the paper and date published. People are unlikely to notice the first one but after a few months you may find someone mis-quoting an early article (which was probably inaccurate anyway). Also it's good to show banks and potential partners all your publicity (yes, even the bad/inaccurate). Why pay for advertising when you can get that for free? If you must spend money then try spending it on setting up a 'big event' but make sure reporters will get there - then you get a lot more coverage per =C2=A3= 1. If you are likely to get some publicity then i recommend chatting with Ubuntu's media-relations/advertising people to see if they can help, perhaps with old posters, a selection of discs for people to try out at home etc, perhaps they have a lot of good advice too ;) Good luck all and regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 20:11:29 -0000 Message-Id: <20090125201129.15349.64845.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Ahah, found a link to some diy stuff to help brighten up your office/worksh= op/wherever in advance of reporters snooping around https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing?highlight=3D(CategoryMarketing) cardboard or higher gsm paper seems like a better bet for Cd-stands than th= e thin paper i usually use. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Anders (andersja+launchpad-net) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:45:38 -0000 Message-Id: <20090127154538.20015.46276.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/26/dziuba_linux_desktop/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:12:04 -0000 Message-Id: <497F3254.80509@hal-pc.org> Anders wrote: > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/26/dziuba_linux_desktop/ Old news and FUD. Summery: People want things not to change, and Linux is different, so=20 people wont change. Problem: So is Vista. The premise is accurate, and that is why Vista was such a resounding=20 failure for so long. But people are slowly adjusting... The other=20 problem is that they never looked outside there own limited experience... I do hotel business center kiosks. Many of them are castrated Windows=20 installs so you can not do anything, and so they can charge. People=20 expect them to be wrong. With all my kiosks (Ubuntu based) I have=20 received zero support calls. Seriously, none... And the hotels love=20 them, and keep asking for more. One was for the employees. That did=20 generate a call... It seems that one (and only one) of the "DVDs" used=20 for training is actually a program... Funny that. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:52:17 -0000 Message-Id: <20090204115217.17015.23534.malone@palladium.canonical.com> In my last post i said that newspapers depend on good stories. Blatantly not quite true. Newspapers feed on tragic horrendous stories that (for some reason) people find good/interesting to read! 'Good news' stories, as i suggested do appear but people don't get excited by them. however they are probably the best way to get good advertising. I think if we want articles to be nearer the front or to be more eye- catching then we need to get the reporters in just a few days before people become aware of the latest Windows virus scare. Often these are easy to anticipate as they seem to occur every 6months or so and closely precede scheduled release dates of popular Anti-virus (or other security) packages. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 05:54:26 -0000 Message-Id: <20090208055426.403.14029.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> People still see Ubuntu as something that's very difficult to get working. Why not just let them stick with Windows which "just works" and also with Windows isn't everything "plug & play" whereas in linux its only for old equipment and you have to spend ages getting it to work? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 06:07:10 -0000 Message-Id: <20090208060710.500.32343.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I have been doing a lot in the Answers section lately. Even a noob like me can do a lot to help people that are even newer or haven't even quite arrived yet. It seems like a lot of new people try Ubuntu :) Sadly a lot of questions go Unsolved and some are even unanswered. Even just one or 2 people racing through leaving cryptic messages might help noobs like me to help more people to have a less negative experience of Ubuntu --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 15:14:15 -0000 Message-Id: <498EF6C7.6070304@hal-pc.org> Tom wrote: > People still see Ubuntu as something that's very difficult to get > working. This is the problem. It is false, but a real problem. > Why not just let them stick with Windows which "just works" It doesn't. > and also with Windows isn't everything "plug & play" It isn't. > whereas in linux > its only for old equipment and you have to spend ages getting it to > work? This is uncommon. However, if you spend all your time in the "problem" forums, that is=20 what you see. But I have a challenge for you. Find me one system that=20 you can install windows on with only a windows CD (No driver cd from the=20 manufacturer) and that is easier than Ubuntu. I have found the reverse=20 to be the case every time. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 18:09:57 -0000 Message-Id: <20090208180957.19989.66221.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Me too, but the general perception is clearly not based in current facts. Actually the "problems forum" is very positive. A lot of people are very excited about having just found Ubuntu and many of them are embarrasingly grateful for even small amounts of help. Sometimes just a nudge in the right direction helps :) If only i could get people i bump into in the pub or any of my buddies to actually dare to risk putting the cd in the tray then maybe they'd see what fools they sound like "dissin my favourite distro" ;) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Paul Bransford (draeath) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 01:59:30 -0000 Message-Id: <20090218015931.10400.88400.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Wow, this bug simply existing, certainly shows a lot of professionalism. I vote this bug be removed. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Pyper (jpyper) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 04:33:01 -0000 Message-Id: @Draeath: If this bug did not exist, the Linux movement as we know it today wouldn't exist or at least would be scattered and not really have any support behind it. Microsoft and/or Windows is not bad or evil, it's just that Microsoft has this notion of bullying the OEMs to make hardware that works only with their platform or locks the OEMs into ungodly ridiculous contracts to include their operating system with new systems. Some manufacturers have decided to release systems with Ubuntu on them as test runs. Most notably, Dell, has it available for their low end notebooks and netbooks. I work for a sub-division of Dell called Managed Services. We have seen some of our customers request Ubuntu or other distributions of Linux to be included with their system purchases because they read on the net that Windows is always being attacked by a virus, trojan, malware or something similar. All in all, Canonical's movement with Ubuntu to 'fix' the BUG 1 problem is mostly to make normal end users aware that there is choice of operating systems available and advocate the freedom of software choice. I don't agree with this whole Linux vs Windows war and I do not support it one bit. I build systems to economically meet the customer's needs. If they want Windows to play the new games, I make it happen. I even make them aware that they can have an option to dual boot their system with Windows and Ubutu. I setup the Ubuntu installation using WUBI so that they can't do any damage to their system. Not satisified with Ubuntu? Boot Windows and uninstall it or delete the c:\Ubuntu directory and be done with it. It's all about having a choice. Demonstrate to people this freedom and let them make the final decision. I've babbled enough. Now it's your turn to exercise your right and make a decision in which direction you want to go. ***NOTE*** The words that I say in this message are not representing or endorsed by Dell in any way. These are my personal views. John Pyper Dell | Managed Services http://john-os.blogspot.com/ BaD_CrC on Freenode IRC Twitter: http://twitter.com/jpyper On 2/17/09, Draeath wrote: > Wow, this bug simply existing, certainly shows a lot of professionalism. > > I vote this bug be removed. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing > access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the > ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. T= his > bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 14:15:35 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c0902190615t590e92acue16322d5f7a94c1a@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for your comments John, (see his blog: http://john-os.blogspot.com/ ) Some of us here see things a little differently. First, although Microsoft Corp., is not "evil" please ask yourself why so many fines and lawsuits have gone against the company in the last 5 years ???? see: http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page=3D2005010107100653 Next, let me assure you that most of us are not "zealots", but open-minded people that desire a choice, an operating system that is well written, and to go through life without the harassment that the likes of Microsoft, burden us with. Open source as you advocate is much more that just revealing the code in a program. First, the overwhelming problem created by the U.S. Patent Office and the long line of lawsuits initiated by "Patent Trolls", is the real and basic problem. Most of us laud Microsoft for its' achievements, but are repulsed by some of its' tactics. Until the Patent System can change we will operate as a group seeking change, and hope that the current U.S. president has more common sense than his two predecessors. In the meantime John, keep up the good work, update your blog, and look at Ubuntu 8.10, Intrepid Ibex, it is the torch bearer of change ! Allengg On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 11:33 PM, John Pyper wrote: > @Draeath: > > If this bug did not exist, the Linux movement as we know it today > wouldn't exist or at least would be scattered and not really have any > support behind it. > > Microsoft and/or Windows is not bad or evil, it's just that Microsoft > has this notion of bullying the OEMs to make hardware that works only > with their platform or locks the OEMs into ungodly ridiculous > contracts to include their operating system with new systems. > > Some manufacturers have decided to release systems with Ubuntu on them > as test runs. Most notably, Dell, has it available for their low end > notebooks and netbooks. I work for a sub-division of Dell called > Managed Services. We have seen some of our customers request Ubuntu or > other distributions of Linux to be included with their system > purchases because they read on the net that Windows is always being > attacked by a virus, trojan, malware or something similar. > > All in all, Canonical's movement with Ubuntu to 'fix' the BUG 1 > problem is mostly to make normal end users aware that there is choice > of operating systems available and advocate the freedom of software > choice. > > I don't agree with this whole Linux vs Windows war and I do not > support it one bit. I build systems to economically meet the > customer's needs. If they want Windows to play the new games, I make > it happen. I even make them aware that they can have an option to dual > boot their system with Windows and Ubutu. I setup the Ubuntu > installation using WUBI so that they can't do any damage to their > system. Not satisified with Ubuntu? Boot Windows and uninstall it or > delete the c:\Ubuntu directory and be done with it. > > It's all about having a choice. Demonstrate to people this freedom and > let them make the final decision. > > I've babbled enough. Now it's your turn to exercise your right and > make a decision in which direction you want to go. > > ***NOTE*** > The words that I say in this message are not representing or endorsed > by Dell in any way. These are my personal views. > > John Pyper > Dell | Managed Services > http://john-os.blogspot.com/ > BaD_CrC on Freenode IRC > Twitter: http://twitter.com/jpyper > > > On 2/17/09, Draeath wrote: > > Wow, this bug simply existing, certainly shows a lot of professionalism. > > > > I vote this bug be removed. > > > > -- > > Microsoft has a majority market share > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > > of the bug. > > > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Confirmed > > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > > > Bug description: > > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting > > access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the > > ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. > This > > bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > > > Steps to repeat: > > > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > > > What happens: > > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > > pre-installed. > > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > > > What should happen: > > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > > Ubuntu. > > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --=20 ....how to switch to Linux http://www.bmighty.com/hardware_software/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=3D2129= 00166 http://picasaweb.google.com/allenggraham/Mazatlan# --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: akshay (akshay-sulakhe) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 14:33:11 -0000 Message-Id: <1234860479.S.11562.32766.f4mail-235-232.rediffmail.com.old.1235053991.42591@webmail.rediffmail.com> Note: Forwarded message attached -- Original Message -- From: Greenpeace India=20 To: akshay_sulakhe@rediffmail.com Subject: The turtles are here. What should the Tatas do? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Pyper (jpyper) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 16:23:49 -0000 Message-Id: @Allen Graham: The way I see it is that Microsoft has a huge team of marketing geniuses that got them to the state of where lawsuits had to be imposed upon them for their monopolistic tactics. If Microsoft believed in open source as much as we do, they would be leading 'the revolution' as people like to call it. I thought of this last night after reading your reply... Linux and open source advocates see Microsoft as the next SkyNet from Terminator and think they must destroy the big evil corporation. Bad move on our part if that's what people think. Let's go back in time a little bit where video game console advertising was the thing. Nintendo had their 8-bit NES (Famicom) with thousands of top games made for it. While the graphics weren't all that, the games were fun. In the early '90s, Sega comes along and releases a 16-bit console called the Genesis (Mega Drive) with a faster processor, better graphics and a blue hedgehog named Sonic who was lightning fast and had an attitude. Nintendo only had a couple of Italian plumbers and a couple of Ninja Turtles at their side. While the 8-bit games were great, the 16-bit ones offered better playability and held people captive with better challenges. Hence where Sega's advertising segments came in with "Genesis does what Nintendon't". This continued for a couple of years and led Nintendo the make the Super NES (Super Famicom), a 16-bit console, to provide a better playability to their gamers. We see this same thing going with Intel vs AMD for CPUs and nVidia vs ATI for GPUs. It's all great advertising. It makes each company stay on ther toes to keep bringing out better products as each one is duped by the other. I see this same thing happening with Linux vs Windows and/or Microsoft vs Open Source. While Microsoft does fight dirty, we will keep bringing technologies forward that will eventually lead this revolution. It's all about making your own decisions. Advertising can persude you to check out a product, but it can't force you to like it. John Pyper Dell | Managed Services BaD_CrC on Freenode IRC http://john-os.blogspot.com/ Follow me @ http://twitter.com/jpyper On 2/19/09, Allen Graham wrote: > Thanks for your comments John, (see his blog: http://john-os.blogspot.com/ > ) > Some of us here see things a little differently. First, although Microsoft > Corp., is not "evil" please ask yourself why so many fines and lawsuits > have > gone against the company in the last 5 years ???? see: > http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page=3D2005010107100653 > > Next, let me assure you that most of us are not "zealots", but open-minded > people that desire a choice, an operating system that is well written, and > to go through life without the harassment that the likes of Microsoft, > burden us with. > > Open source as you advocate is much more that just revealing the code in a > program. > First, the overwhelming problem created by the U.S. Patent Office and the > long line of lawsuits initiated by "Patent Trolls", > is the real and basic problem. Most of us laud Microsoft for its' > achievements, but are repulsed by some of its' tactics. > > Until the Patent System can change we will operate as a group seeking > change, and hope that the current U.S. president has more common sense > than > his two predecessors. > > In the meantime John, keep up the good work, update your blog, and look at > Ubuntu 8.10, Intrepid Ibex, it is the torch bearer of change ! > > Allengg > > > On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 11:33 PM, John Pyper wrote: > >> @Draeath: >> >> If this bug did not exist, the Linux movement as we know it today >> wouldn't exist or at least would be scattered and not really have any >> support behind it. >> >> Microsoft and/or Windows is not bad or evil, it's just that Microsoft >> has this notion of bullying the OEMs to make hardware that works only >> with their platform or locks the OEMs into ungodly ridiculous >> contracts to include their operating system with new systems. >> >> Some manufacturers have decided to release systems with Ubuntu on them >> as test runs. Most notably, Dell, has it available for their low end >> notebooks and netbooks. I work for a sub-division of Dell called >> Managed Services. We have seen some of our customers request Ubuntu or >> other distributions of Linux to be included with their system >> purchases because they read on the net that Windows is always being >> attacked by a virus, trojan, malware or something similar. >> >> All in all, Canonical's movement with Ubuntu to 'fix' the BUG 1 >> problem is mostly to make normal end users aware that there is choice >> of operating systems available and advocate the freedom of software >> choice. >> >> I don't agree with this whole Linux vs Windows war and I do not >> support it one bit. I build systems to economically meet the >> customer's needs. If they want Windows to play the new games, I make >> it happen. I even make them aware that they can have an option to dual >> boot their system with Windows and Ubutu. I setup the Ubuntu >> installation using WUBI so that they can't do any damage to their >> system. Not satisified with Ubuntu? Boot Windows and uninstall it or >> delete the c:\Ubuntu directory and be done with it. >> >> It's all about having a choice. Demonstrate to people this freedom and >> let them make the final decision. >> >> I've babbled enough. Now it's your turn to exercise your right and >> make a decision in which direction you want to go. >> >> ***NOTE*** >> The words that I say in this message are not representing or endorsed >> by Dell in any way. These are my personal views. >> >> John Pyper >> Dell | Managed Services >> http://john-os.blogspot.com/ >> BaD_CrC on Freenode IRC >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/jpyper >> >> >> On 2/17/09, Draeath wrote: >> > Wow, this bug simply existing, certainly shows a lot of >> > professionalism. >> > >> > I vote this bug be removed. >> > >> > -- >> > Microsoft has a majority market share >> > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber >> > of the bug. >> > >> > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >> > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed >> > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed >> > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed >> > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid >> > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid >> > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed >> > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Confirmed >> > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid >> > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid >> > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed >> > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed >> > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> > Status in Tilix Linux: New >> > >> > Bug description: >> > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC >> > marketplace. >> > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> > >> > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting >> > access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the >> > ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. >> This >> > bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> > >> > Steps to repeat: >> > >> > 1. Visit a local PC store. >> > >> > What happens: >> > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> > pre-installed. >> > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> > >> > What should happen: >> > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software >> > like >> > Ubuntu. >> > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features >> > and >> > benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >> > >> >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber >> of the bug. >> >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed >> Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid >> Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid >> Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Confirmed >> Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid >> Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed >> Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> Status in Tilix Linux: New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full >> potential, >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like >> Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >> > > > > -- > ....how to switch to Linux > http://www.bmighty.com/hardware_software/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=3D21= 2900166 > > http://picasaweb.google.com/allenggraham/Mazatlan# > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Michael Tsang (michaeldadmum-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 02:23:25 -0000 Message-Id: <20090222022325.15284.21377.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> This bug is critical in Hong Kong. When I go to large stores, every PC comes with Microsoft Windows Vista 32-b= it pre-installed. When I go to small shops, the specification lists usually don't include the= operating system but you may add HK$ 699 to get a copy of Microsoft Window= s Vista/XP pre-installed. (sorry, only Microsoft Windows Vista/XP 32-bit ar= e available) There are no PCs with free OS available on the market. I haven't seen any free OSes in a typical office yet. GNU/Linux OSes are dominant in universities but every workstation still has= a copy of Microsoft Windows installed in the HDD There are only very few secondary schools which have free OSes in their com= puter rooms. The textbooks used in primary/secondary schools are flooded with Microsoft = Windows and Microsoft Office. In the HKCEE (equivalent to UK O-level), there is a subject called Computer= and Information Technology (abbr. CIT) starting from 2005. It consists of = a core modules and 4 selective modules. (A: programming, B: organization of= computers, C: networking, D: multimedia) In module D, even the examination= paper contains Windows-specific knowledge (taskmgr, etc) Much of the govt material are still in the proprietary .doc format. Among all people I know, only 2 uses GNU/Linux at home (excluding myself) a= nd only 1 has no Microsoft Windows installed at home. When I teach some classmates to program in C++, I find some difficulties be= cause they are all using Microsoft Windows. (I wants to teach them using Un= ix tools like man, kdbg, etc) I wants to make my family to stop using Windows but my attempt failed becau= se they are using Windows-specific software. In a typical computer magazine, about 50% of the contents are about Windows= and Windows software, 10% are about Mac OS X, 2% about GNU/Linux (Not ever= y issue has this 2%, it appears usually in contexts like virtualization, et= c) and the others are about hardware. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark (mlvarnell) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 04:38:49 -0000 Message-Id: <20090223043849.32549.80747.malone@palladium.canonical.com> How about a 'Free your PC campaign'? it starts Billions of PC's worldwide are chained with expensive worm and virus prone = software... sad music playing... Free your PC... jazz with blaring trumpets playing... Ubuntu and other Distro logos splash on the screen... Happy People run through the surf Smiling people checking email Fat wallet stuffed with cash lying near the computer.... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: John Pyper (jpyper) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 09:57:43 -0000 Message-Id: @Mark: I like the idea of a 'Free Your PC Day' or whole 'Free Your PC' campeign in general. We should put some serious planning into it and see if we can get some help from Canonical and the LoCos. I'm all for it. I don't know if I'm qualified enough to organize it, but I'm sure willing to participate in it. John Pyper Dell | Managed Services http://john-os.blogspot.com/ Follow me @ http://twitter.com/jpyper On 2/22/09, Mark wrote: > How about a 'Free your PC campaign'? > it starts > Billions of PC's worldwide are chained with expensive worm and virus prone > software... > sad music playing... > Free your PC... > jazz with blaring trumpets playing... > Ubuntu and other Distro logos splash on the screen... > Happy People run through the surf > Smiling people checking email > Fat wallet stuffed with cash lying near the computer.... > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Confirmed > Status in JAK LINUX: Confirmed > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Launchpad Translations: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in "bum" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "casper" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "djplay" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "firefox" source package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in "ubuntu-express" source package in Ubuntu: Confirmed > Status in The Breezy Badger: Invalid > Status in The Dapper Drake: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Won't Fix > Status in bum in Ubuntu Jaunty: Won't Fix > Status in casper in Ubuntu Jaunty: Won't Fix > Status in djplay in Ubuntu Jaunty: Won't Fix > Status in firefox in Ubuntu Jaunty: Won't Fix > Status in ubuntu-express in Ubuntu Jaunty: Won't Fix > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in "linux" source package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing > access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the > ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. T= his > bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 12:26:57 -0000 Message-Id: <20090223122657.9153.87546.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Geniuses? Geniei, Geniiii aaarrgh @#$% english --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Harsh Singh (hisingh1) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 17:40:47 -0000 Message-Id: <7da17e8a0902230940s5c9f96fape28dc98a5d18bb17@mail.gmail.com> Ubuntu is good. I like it. I try to spread the word.Other people like it too. People that dont like it have driver problems. They voice their opinions more then the people that are satisfied. Just how it is. Get people to voice how good ubuntu is. Problem solved. Many people dont think that the choice of os is a big deal. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Craig Huffstetler (xq) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 22:15:59 -0000 Message-Id: <20090227221559.15473.31208.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Serious work is being done in the United Kingdom as well too ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7910110.stm ). Just one of the most recent things I have seen on BBC that mentions open source as of late. Cheers! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Popa Adrian Marius (mapopa) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 19:47:13 -0000 Message-Id: <20090306194713.31088.86398.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> We should start an campaign to kill #1 I posted some ideas for an banner we should spread on all the sites=20 http://gist.github.com/75033 also here is my idea inspired from kill ie6 campaign http://mapopa.blogspot.com/2009/03/how-to-kill-windows-and-ie-first- step.html imagine if we put these kind of banners on all blogs/sites we have , this way we have ads for free also we can get more exposure to windows/ie users they are the main target --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 20:35:06 -0000 Message-Id: <20090323203506.11233.74325.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I like the style :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: JD (jacobdorne) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 06:16:52 -0000 Message-Id: <20090328061652.20172.3903.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> This bug is also in NZ. There is almost no computer place which has their computers with free software pre-installed. I am working on this bug. I am only 14 yrs old and have converted 11 family computers to free software. (Ubuntu etc.) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mr_willem (willem-crossbone) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 11:26:33 -0000 Message-Id: <20090328112633.27737.60566.malone@palladium.canonical.com> First of all, I want to tell that this bug is also very widespread in germany. I am using Linux now for about 12 to 15 years now and I want to compliment = all the developers that made it such a wonderful operating system. Since I = used it for such a long time I saw lot's of improvements in several aspects= of usability. I must say that installing Linux nowadays is so easy that ev= eryone who is aware of installing Window$ could do it.=20 But from my point of view there are still severall problems that prevent pe= ople from using Linux. First of all there is little support for drivers for some devices: Of course, lots of devices work but some of them don't work as good as they= do in windows. I have three of such devices. A scanner, which probably wil= l never work under Linux. A atheros wlan card, which needed three months of= my atention before it worked reliable and an Intel IGP 945 which still doe= s not work as performant as in windows but improves from month to month.=20 On the other hand there are companies who show good support for drivers but= are somehow rejected by the community. One of those examples is NVIDIA. I = must say I had less problems using their drivers than any of the open sourc= e drivers for graphics cards. And their drivers are very performant. The second thing is software. If Linux should ever replace Microsoft, companies must see Linux as an Opti= on for selling apps for it. While this does not hold true for standard apps= like Office suites, one big software sector for average users are games.=20 I think games are like a vicious circle. If there were games released for l= inux as fast as for windows, more people would use linux. On the other hand= this is difficult to realize because of the small market. Games are the only reason I have both installed. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 16:51:17 -0000 Message-Id: <2c8763bb0903290951p5a9ba114i240fef8891a18d6f@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 5:26 AM, mr_willem wrote: > First of all, I want to tell that this bug is also very widespread in germany. I note that the browser market share (as per StatCounter) in Germany http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser_version-DE-daily-20080701-20090329 is approximately on the order of: FF3: 55% IE7: 22.5% IE6: 7.5% Part of Bug #1 is the diagnostic: --- 1. Visit a local PC store. 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-insta= lled. --- For those in Germany, in terms of _just_browsers_ where the software libre Firefox now appears to represent a *majority* of web users, how often do you see Firefox actually preinstalled on computer systems in stores? If it is significantly less than half (as I suspect; note this article from a year and a half ago: http://www.crn.com/software/202402974), then it is clear that the bottleneck in terms of fixing this bug is the OEMs, not the users... > On the other hand there are companies who show good support for drivers but are somehow rejected by the community. One of those examples is NVIDIA. I must say I had less problems using their drivers than any of the open source drivers for graphics cards. And their drivers are very performant. There is no mystery (no "somehow") as to why NVIDIA drivers are "rejected by the community"; they are closed-source. If you want to argue that performance-ends justifies the licensing-means, then we might as well all switch to Macs (http://www.nvidia.com/page/apple.html) and be done with it, but that is not what software libre is all about. Also, NVIDIA could choose to open source their drivers if they wanted (note that ATI also refused to do that, but then they got bought by AMD and the story began to change). Really the question you should be asking is 'Why are there companies who show good support for [Linux] drivers but somehow reject the community's principles?' --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 18:53:48 -0000 Message-Id: <49CFC3BC.9060801@hal-pc.org> Conrad Knauer wrote: > There is no mystery (no "somehow") as to why NVIDIA drivers are > "rejected by the community"; they are closed-source. If you want to > argue that performance-ends justifies the licensing-means, then we > might as well all switch to Macs This is like saying if you don't like the radio in your car, buy a=20 different one. My system is open. My framework is open. I can hit all=20 my hardware directly. And while I can not see inside the driver, I can=20 also not see inside the BIOS, and the other chips on the video card=20 and... There is a lot of "software" in every system that we can see=20 totally. So you have to draw a line somewhere. I draw mine in a=20 slightly different place than you. But do not think that you are not=20 also choosing to accept some closed source code. > ... Also, NVIDIA could choose to > open source their drivers if they wanted (note that ATI also refused > to do that, but then they got bought by AMD and the story began to > change). Really the question you should be asking is 'Why are there > companies who show good support for [Linux] drivers but somehow reject > the community's principles?' Because the driver includes licensed software that they can not give away. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: bert07 (marien.bert) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 06:05:32 -0000 Message-Id: <20090330060532.1724.70978.malone@palladium.canonical.com> The vendors finally start to notice the Linux community. Both vendors and community are working hard on getting hardware recognized = under Linux. Before long evry one can install any Linux system without any problems on a= ny system. (Mind you, it might still take up to 5, 6, 1o years. But when this happens, why would anybody still pay 500$ for a system he can= have for free. Not only that: when one chooses for Linux, one gets a lot of new friends. Let Microsoft beat that! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 13:38:41 -0000 Message-Id: <20090415133841.11377.15702.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Aaargh more friends? Lol --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Michael Brown (michaelbrown2009) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 12:54:18 -0000 Message-Id: <20090516125419.5856.60281.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> im seeing more and more vendors offer systems with ubuntu and other linux distros. i agree with bert07 that they are finally starting to see the linux community. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 09:48:16 -0000 Message-Id: <2c8763bb0905180248j719be64av96ebc473347aaac8@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 6:54 AM, Michael Brown wrote: > im seeing more and more vendors offer systems with ubuntu and other > linux distros. i agree with bert07 that they are finally starting to see > the linux community. Speaking of "vendors" who are "starting to see the linux community", I note that Lenovo is not one of them: http://tech.blorge.com/Structure:%20/2009/05/09/lenovo-on-the-future-of- the-netbook/ --- The other challenge has been, in order to keep the price points down, a lot of people thought that Linux would be the saviour of all of these netbooks. You know, there were a lot of netbooks loaded with Linux, which saves $50 or $100 or whatever it happens to be, based on Microsoft=E2=80=99s pric= ing and, again, from an industry standpoint, there were a lot of returns because people didn=E2=80=99t know what to do with it. Linux, even if you=E2=80=99ve got a great distribution and you can argue wh= ich one is better or not, still requires a lot more hands-on than somebody who is using Windows. So, we=E2=80=99ve seen overwhelmingly people wanting to stay with Windows because it just makes more sense: you just take it out of the box and it=E2=80=99s ready to go. --- I'm going to call 'revisionist history' on Lenovo BTW; People didn't want "to stay with Windows", they wanted to stay with Windows *XP*. Yet at the same time, XP (which is still much more widely used than Vista; e.g. see http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=3D= 10 and http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-weekly-200827-200921) had all but gone extinct on regular machines from the big OEMs. Thus there was a high demand for it with low supply. When XP netbooks entered the market at a price point of less than half what Vista notebooks cost, they sold quite well as you might have expected! You'll note that while there are fewer Linux-based netbooks than XP ones available, you don't see any in stores with Vista O:) Also it turns out that Microsoft only charged the OEMs $15 per XP Home license on netbooks (http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/04/19/ms.asks.15.for.xp.netbooks/) which explains why they didn't cost significantly more than the Linux ones. And while MSI apparently had 4x (!) higher return rates on their SUSE systems than they did with those preloaded with XP, Dell's netbooks shipping with Ubuntu (a full third!) had about the same return rate as those with XP (http://blog.laptopmag.com/one-third-of-dell-inspiron-mini-9s-sold-run-linu= x). What this says to me is that MSI didn't do a good job of picking/testing/tweaking/marketing their distro of choice, while Dell did. My prediction is that companies which decide to put Windows 7 Starter (limited to 3 concurrent applications... can we say "crippleware"? ;) on netbooks are going to have unhappy customers and low sales, those who continue to preload XP will continue to do well and those that preload Ubuntu will see increasing sales. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 14:03:45 -0000 Message-Id: <4A116AC1.20304@hal-pc.org> Conrad Knauer wrote: > My prediction is that companies which decide to put Windows 7 Starter > (limited to 3 concurrent applications... can we say "crippleware"? ;) > on netbooks are going to have unhappy customers and low sales, those > who continue to preload XP will continue to do well and those that > preload Ubuntu will see increasing sales. I think you are dead on with a lot of that. Moreover, I think there are=20 two totally different markets for netbooks. One is people that want a=20 cheap laptop with XP. The other is people that want a small, cheap,=20 fast appliance. It seems that a lot of short sighted companies are=20 going after the first market, but forgetting the other.=20 http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/05/15/asus_uk_eee_roadmap/ The daddy=20 of the market abandons "small," the fast SSD drive, and Linux. The=20 comments tell the story. Once Windows 7 comes out, and XP is officially=20 killed, Dell may be the only one left in the market, and I think they=20 will do very well. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: bert07 (marien.bert) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 16:33:39 -0000 Message-Id: <20090520163340.7559.7538.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Aaargh more friends? Lol I am testing Windows7 as well, and it is not that bad (and better than Vist= a anyway). But Microsoft does not have any kind of community Linux has. Pray tell me, any Windows website that involves Windows users as much as we= connect through Linux (or BSD).. I think you'll have to search for a long time. That's also so beautiful about Linux, we stick together. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Amir E. Aharoni (amir-aharoni) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 16:43:59 -0000 Message-Id: <97f280ea0905200943x69036cb1xb92c6f4101984c61@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 19:33, bert07 wrote: > But Microsoft does not have any kind of community Linux has. > Pray tell me, any Windows website that involves Windows users as much as = we connect through Linux (or BSD).. MSDN and other Visual Studio-centric forums is a very large community. However, no matter how hard Microsoft tries, it will never be half as cool. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: bert07 (marien.bert) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 17:04:20 -0000 Message-Id: <4A143814.6000801@telenet.be> Amir E. Aharoni wrote: > MSDN and other Visual Studio-centric forums is a very large community. > However, no matter how hard Microsoft tries, it will never be half as > cool. > > =20 I must say: I didn't know about that site. But it IS true that any Linux (or BSD) community is more alive than=20 Windows itself. And they only have themselves to blame. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?TWFydGluIEJvxb5pxI0gKG1hcnRpbi1ib3ppYyk=?= Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 17:15:20 -0000 Message-Id: <1242839720.3409.12.camel@martin-laptop.bizjaki.lan> Grassroots communities will always have more passion for the cause than top-down, prefabricated and profit-oriented products. That's the nature of things and both have their good and bad sides. I know who I'll stick with ;) Dne 20.05.2009 (sre) ob 17:04 +0000 je bert07 zapisal(a): > Amir E. Aharoni wrote: > > MSDN and other Visual Studio-centric forums is a very large community. > > However, no matter how hard Microsoft tries, it will never be half as > > cool. > > > > =20 > I must say: I didn't know about that site. > But it IS true that any Linux (or BSD) community is more alive than=20 > Windows itself. > And they only have themselves to blame. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Shane Fagan (shanepatrickfagan) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 17:25:16 -0000 Message-Id: <20090520172516.13989.91159.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> I dont think its their fault entirely. The fact is they dont need a communi= ty behind them like the FLOSS community.=20 We rely on the help of all corners of the community to make our software th= e best, Microsoft dont.=20 Its very easy to say they arent cool but they dont need to be cool.=20 We need to be cool, we need to have the community.=20 To test, to develop, to test, to report bugs, to help in anyway we can. Of course we do have help from companies like Novell, Red Hat and Canonical= but the community is what FLOSS runs on. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: bert07 (marien.bert) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 18:36:12 -0000 Message-Id: <4A144D9C.703@telenet.be> shane fagan wrote: > I dont think its their fault entirely. The fact is they dont need a commu= nity behind them like the FLOSS community.=20 > We rely on the help of all corners of the community to make our software = the best, Microsoft dont.=20 > Its very easy to say they arent cool but they dont need to be cool.=20 > We need to be cool, we need to have the community.=20 > To test, to develop, to test, to report bugs, to help in anyway we can. > Of course we do have help from companies like Novell, Red Hat and Canonic= al but the community is what FLOSS runs on. > > =20 To be a little bit cruel, one can say that with the community, there=20 wouldn't be a Linux either. And of course Windows has its advantages. Almost all programs are=20 written with Windows in mind. I never said Windows was bad. I do state that Linux has its own advantages. The community is one of them. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Amir E. Aharoni (amir-aharoni) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 18:54:55 -0000 Message-Id: <97f280ea0905201154s3e2840deg44041522d8ed3369@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 20:04, bert07 wrote: > > Amir E. Aharoni wrote: >> MSDN and other Visual Studio-centric forums is a very large community. >> However, no matter how hard Microsoft tries, it will never be half as >> cool. >> >> > I must say: I didn't know about that site. OK - *now* i can be sure that Bug #1 will be solved soon. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: bert07 (marien.bert) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 20:28:40 -0000 Message-Id: <4A1467F8.1020002@telenet.be> Amir E. Aharoni wrote: > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 20:04, bert07 wrote: > =20 >> Amir E. Aharoni wrote: >> =20 >>> MSDN and other Visual Studio-centric forums is a very large community. >>> However, no matter how hard Microsoft tries, it will never be half as >>> cool. >>> >>> >>> =20 >> I must say: I didn't know about that site. >> =20 > > OK - *now* i can be sure that Bug #1 will be solved soon. > Grin. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Bastien Scher (bastien0705) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 09:45:18 -0000 Message-Id: <4A1522AE.7080003@aol.com> bert07 a =C3=A9crit : > shane fagan wrote: > =20 >> I dont think its their fault entirely. The fact is they dont need a comm= unity behind them like the FLOSS community.=20 >> We rely on the help of all corners of the community to make our software= the best, Microsoft dont.=20 >> Its very easy to say they arent cool but they dont need to be cool.=20 >> We need to be cool, we need to have the community.=20 >> To test, to develop, to test, to report bugs, to help in anyway we can. >> Of course we do have help from companies like Novell, Red Hat and Canoni= cal but the community is what FLOSS runs on. >> >> =20 >> =20 > To be a little bit cruel, one can say that with the community, there=20 > wouldn't be a Linux either. > > And of course Windows has its advantages. Almost all programs are=20 > written with Windows in mind. > I never said Windows was bad. > I do state that Linux has its own advantages. > The community is one of them. > > =20 But, if programs are written with Windows in mind, it's because...=20 Microsoft has a majority market share. It is a vicious circle. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Shahar Or (mightyiam) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 09:06:03 -0000 Message-Id: <1243415163.10979.3.camel@dawn-desktop> Dear friends, Attached is what iUnika sent me when I asked for information in english because their site is only spanish. Do you know of other companies who make "Free Software only" laptops? I really like the bio-degradable plastic! Many blessings. --=20 Shahar Or --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Ittay Dror (ittay-dror) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 16:58:00 -0000 Message-Id: <20090527165800.14706.74321.malone@palladium.canonical.com> FWIW, here is my opinion why this bug is not on it's way of being resolved. Ever since Ubuntu 8.04 I have seen a regression in how usable the distribut= ion is for me: 1. It uses a lot of memory: I had to upgrade my memory recently since 2GB w= ere not enough for 4 applications (thunderbird, terminal, firefox and eclip= se). My computer at home, with 1GB of memory and Windows runs much more app= lications without problem. 2. It is not stable: in 8.04 and 8.10 X used to crashed a lot. Now I get ra= ndom freezes of the laptop.=20 3. Many times it fails to suspend: I get no clear indication what interrupt= ed the suspension, and I have to wait every time to see if it manages to su= spend and if not, shut down (loose my state of work), and reboot later. In = Windows I can unplug the power line, put in my backpack and not worry. 4. Basic stuff like sound (pulseaudio) and fan cooling don't work properly. 5. Some things that are basic in Windows are hard to do in Ubuntu. For exam= ple, how do I check my disk? In windows it is through a context menu, in Ub= untu I have to create some file under '/'. And why do I have to reboot just= to check? Note that the fact that it automatically checks every 20 boots o= r so is not good, since I don't want to reboot. ever. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 17:33:55 -0000 Message-Id: <4A1D7983.40009@hal-pc.org> This really shows that we have a perception problem. I am addressing=20 your issues, not to attack you, but to show you other answers. The real=20 question is why you did not see them. Ittay Dror wrote: > Ever since Ubuntu 8.04 I have seen a regression in how usable the distrib= ution is for me: > 1. It uses a lot of memory: I had to upgrade my memory recently since 2GB= were not enough for 4 applications (thunderbird, terminal, firefox and ecl= ipse). My computer at home, with 1GB of memory and Windows runs much more a= pplications without problem. I do not have a single system with over 2 gig. My laptop is 512 meg,=20 and I am currently running several applications. What are you starting?=20 And why do you feel this is an Ubuntu issue, and not a user issue? > 2. It is not stable: in 8.04 and 8.10 X used to crashed a lot. Now I get random freezes of the laptop. I am with you here. There is a known bug in the 8.04 kernel, and=20 Intrepid had a few regressions. Most of the Intrepid regressions are=20 fixed now, but I have not looks at the LTS in a while. However, I have=20 been very pleasently surprised with 9.04. I also still have a lot of=20 Gutsy systems in production. There is no reason to move if it works... > 3. Many times it fails to suspend: I get no clear indication what interrupted the suspension, and I have to wait every time to see if it manages to suspend and if not, shut down (loose my state of work), and reboot later. In Windows I can unplug the power line, put in my backpack and not worry. I have seen several laptops that can not suspend properly under Windows.=20 This is really a power management bug, as the spec is not clearly=20 defined or well followed. > 4. Basic stuff like sound (pulseaudio) and fan cooling don't work properly. Same with Windows. Buy well supported hardware and it will work. Buy=20 poorly supported hardware and it won't. I have a Paperport scanner that=20 won't work under XP or better, but will work in Linux. > 5. Some things that are basic in Windows are hard to do in Ubuntu. For example, how do I check my disk? In windows it is through a context menu, in Ubuntu I have to create some file under '/'. And why do I have to reboot just to check? Note that the fact that it automatically checks every 20 boots or so is not good, since I don't want to reboot. ever. You need to reboot to run chkdsk in windows as well. There are=20 applications (like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AutoFsck ) you can install to=20 allow you to run an fask on your next boot. Some will also then=20 shutdown and reboot then shutdown again, so it seems like you run fsck=20 at shutdown. I have never "created a file" to run fsck. So the bug is that you could not find the answers to your problems. You=20 can help us by saying where you looked and what you found, or what you=20 expected to find but didn't. Believe me that a LOT of us want to fix=20 that bug! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Ittay Dror (ittay-dror) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 15:10:57 -0000 Message-Id: <4A1EA981.3010504@gmail.com> houstonbofh wrote: > This really shows that we have a perception problem. I am addressing=20 > your issues, not to attack you, but to show you other answers. The real = > question is why you did not see them. > =20 Why do you dismiss this as a problem of perception and not a real=20 problem? Do you really think that Ubuntu's only problem is perception=20 and not finding information? See my comments inline. > Ittay Dror wrote: > =20 >> Ever since Ubuntu 8.04 I have seen a regression in how usable the distri= bution is for me: >> 1. It uses a lot of memory: I had to upgrade my memory recently since 2G= B were not enough for 4 applications (thunderbird, terminal, firefox and ec= lipse). My computer at home, with 1GB of memory and Windows runs much more = applications without problem. >> =20 > > I do not have a single system with over 2 gig. My laptop is 512 meg,=20 > and I am currently running several applications. What are you starting? = > And why do you feel this is an Ubuntu issue, and not a user issue? > =20 I have compiz disabled and I have 4 desktop applications running -=20 thunderbird, terminal, firefox and eclipse. this is what free shows: > free total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 4044664 2772556 1272108 0 476432 931564 -/+ buffers/cache: 1364560 2680104 Swap: 2851496 10896 2840600 So 1.3GB is used. These are the top memory consumers, broken down to private and shared=20 memory: 8.9 MiB + 1.6 MiB =3D 10.5 MiB nm-applet 10.5 MiB + 1.3 MiB =3D 11.7 MiB python2.6 (2) 13.5 MiB + 59.0 KiB =3D 13.6 MiB vmware-serverd 22.6 MiB + 2.8 MiB =3D 25.5 MiB pidgin 32.5 MiB + 3.6 MiB =3D 36.1 MiB Xorg 247.1 MiB + 2.4 MiB =3D 249.5 MiB firefox-3.5 295.4 MiB + 1.6 MiB =3D 297.0 MiB eclipse (2) 464.7 MiB + 2.4 MiB =3D 467.1 MiB thunderbird-bin Running the same set of applications in windows doesn't take so much=20 memory. I have now running outlook, firefox, word, internet explorer,=20 emule and sketchup and the total used memory is 871MB. > =20 >> 2. It is not stable: in 8.04 and 8.10 X used to crashed a lot. Now I >> =20 > get random freezes of the laptop. > > I am with you here. There is a known bug in the 8.04 kernel, and=20 > Intrepid had a few regressions. Most of the Intrepid regressions are=20 > fixed now, but I have not looks at the LTS in a while. However, I have=20 > been very pleasently surprised with 9.04. I also still have a lot of=20 > Gutsy systems in production. There is no reason to move if it works... > =20 Well, I use Jaunty and yesterday my laptop froze 4 times. All while=20 working with the 4 applications I mentioned earlier. > =20 >> 3. Many times it fails to suspend: I get no clear indication what >> =20 > interrupted the suspension, and I have to wait every time to see if it > manages to suspend and if not, shut down (loose my state of work), and > reboot later. In Windows I can unplug the power line, put in my backpack > and not worry. > > I have seen several laptops that can not suspend properly under Windows. = > This is really a power management bug, as the spec is not clearly=20 > defined or well followed. > =20 My laptop is Thinkpad T61. I think the Thinkpad line of laptops is very=20 reliable and widely used that it should just work. > =20 >> 4. Basic stuff like sound (pulseaudio) and fan cooling don't work >> =20 > properly. > > Same with Windows. Buy well supported hardware and it will work. Buy=20 > poorly supported hardware and it won't. I have a Paperport scanner that = > won't work under XP or better, but will work in Linux. > =20 As mentioned, my laptop is Thinkpad T61. I think it should be well supported > =20 >> 5. Some things that are basic in Windows are hard to do in Ubuntu. For >> =20 > example, how do I check my disk? In windows it is through a context > menu, in Ubuntu I have to create some file under '/'. And why do I have > to reboot just to check? Note that the fact that it automatically checks > every 20 boots or so is not good, since I don't want to reboot. ever. > > You need to reboot to run chkdsk in windows as well. There are=20 > =20 I just made sure. To check the C drive in Windows, click Win+E,=20 right-click on C, select properties->Tools and click Check Now in Error=20 Checking. To fix errors you probably need to reboot, but just to check,=20 there's no need. And even if I have to reboot, why is it so hard to ask a disk check? Why=20 isn't there some intuitive way of doing it from the desktop? Why is=20 there no way of defragmenting (I know, Ext is built so it allocates=20 space in the center, so less fragmentation occurs, still over time=20 there is fragmentation) > applications (like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AutoFsck ) you can install to = > allow you to run an fask on your next boot. Some will also then=20 > shutdown and reboot then shutdown again, so it seems like you run fsck=20 > at shutdown. I have never "created a file" to run fsck. > > So the bug is that you could not find the answers to your problems. You = > =20 I think the bug is that Ubuntu uses a lot of memory, freezes, forces me=20 to reboot when I need to take my laptop and has several usability issues. > can help us by saying where you looked and what you found, or what you=20 > expected to find but didn't. Believe me that a LOT of us want to fix=20 > that bug! > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 16:11:03 -0000 Message-Id: <4A1EB797.5040605@hal-pc.org> Ittay Dror wrote: > houstonbofh wrote: >=20 >> This really shows that we have a perception problem. I am addressing=20 >> your issues, not to attack you, but to show you other answers. The real= =20 >> question is why you did not see them. >> =20 > Why do you dismiss this as a problem of perception and not a real=20 > problem? Do you really think that Ubuntu's only problem is perception=20 > and not finding information? See my comments inline. Dude! A perception problem IS a real problem! It is huge. It is real.=20 And it is our biggest barrier to adoption. It absolutely needs to be=20 fixed to even hope to resolve Bug 1. > I have compiz disabled and I have 4 desktop applications running -=20 > thunderbird, terminal, firefox and eclipse. this is what free shows: > > free > total used free shared buffers cached > Mem: 4044664 2772556 1272108 0 476432 931564 > -/+ buffers/cache: 1364560 2680104 > Swap: 2851496 10896 2840600 >=20 > So 1.3GB is used. I do not have eclipse. I do have a LOT of firefox instances and tabs=20 open, and my mail folder is about 2 gig in Thunderbird. lee@boat:~$ free total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 2074856 839148 1235708 0 131500 338428 -/+ buffers/cache: 369220 1705636 Swap: 6080560 0 6080560 > Running the same set of applications in windows doesn't take so much=20 > memory. I have now running outlook, firefox, word, internet explorer,=20 > emule and sketchup and the total used memory is 871MB. Or it could be your instance, as I am fitting in 2 gig just fine. Or it=20 could be eclipse... But it is not "Linux stinks!" > My laptop is Thinkpad T61. I think the Thinkpad line of laptops is very=20 > reliable and widely used that it should just work. I have currently 2 Dell Inspirons, a Latitude, a IBM T42, a Compaq=20 Presario 2200 with no issues at all on Jaunty. One of them had major=20 issues on Hardy. So by my anecdotal evidence, the "Thinkpad line"=20 works, and by your it does not. Again, it sounds like an issue specific=20 to you. >> Same with Windows. Buy well supported hardware and it will work. Buy=20 >> poorly supported hardware and it won't. I have a Paperport scanner that= =20 >> won't work under XP or better, but will work in Linux. >> =20 > As mentioned, my laptop is Thinkpad T61. I think it should be well suppor= ted What have you done to support that opinion? A quick google shows more=20 than a few issues with Linux on this laptop. Or did you just assume it=20 would be supported? > I just made sure. To check the C drive in Windows, click Win+E,=20 > right-click on C, select properties->Tools and click Check Now in Error=20 > Checking. To fix errors you probably need to reboot, but just to check,=20 > there's no need. I do not have Windows handy, but with XP and older, to do a low level=20 check, you needed to reboot. Perhaps Vista improved this... I do not know. > And even if I have to reboot, why is it so hard to ask a disk check? Why = > isn't there some intuitive way of doing it from the desktop? Why is=20 > there no way of defragmenting (I know, Ext is built so it allocates=20 > space in the center, so less fragmentation occurs, still over time=20 > there is fragmentation) Did you look at the link? There is a way, but it is not installed by=20 default. As to defragmenting, that is because it is not needed, and is not=20 possible in the typical way. However, if you really feel you need it,=20 there are tools if you remount EXT2. You will find that it takes time,=20 and does not help. In a way, you are saying, "Where is the geese=20 fitting to lubricate my ball joints?" on a car with sealed ball joints.=20 I would say sealed ball joints are an improvement. > I think the bug is that Ubuntu uses a lot of memory, freezes, forces me=20 > to reboot when I need to take my laptop and has several usability issues. Yet there seem to be many people with uptimes over a year, running in=20 far less memory that a typical Windows system, and find Linux far easier=20 to use than Windows. So how do we get you from where you are now, to where I am now? This is=20 a serious question. Would it take something like a "Disk Defragmenter"=20 Application that when you run it tells you that it is not needed and=20 gives the sealed ball joint analogy? To fix this perception bug, which it is absolutely vital that we=20 address, we need to first fix your individule problems, and then figure=20 out why you could not, and than make it so that others can fix them more=20 intuitively. No small task... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Ittay Dror (ittay-dror) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 19:28:02 -0000 Message-Id: <4A2188C2.5000101@gmail.com> So what you are saying is that since everything is working fine for you,=20 then it means nothing is wrong with Linux and I have a perception=20 problem. So everything is fine with Linux if not for the perception=20 issue? I think not. Btw, For some reason, I can't suspend to ram any more. Either X crashes=20 or nothing happens. I've opened a bug, but I can't say I'm holding my=20 breath. I have been using linux for 12 years, the last 8 exclusively. And=20 professionally I've always used Unix / Linux. And I'm about to quit. houstonbofh wrote: > Ittay Dror wrote: > =20 >> houstonbofh wrote: >> >> =20 >>> This really shows that we have a perception problem. I am addressing=20 >>> your issues, not to attack you, but to show you other answers. The rea= l=20 >>> question is why you did not see them. >>> =20 >>> =20 >> Why do you dismiss this as a problem of perception and not a real=20 >> problem? Do you really think that Ubuntu's only problem is perception=20 >> and not finding information? See my comments inline. >> =20 > > Dude! A perception problem IS a real problem! It is huge. It is real. = > And it is our biggest barrier to adoption. It absolutely needs to be=20 > fixed to even hope to resolve Bug 1. > > =20 >> I have compiz disabled and I have 4 desktop applications running -=20 >> thunderbird, terminal, firefox and eclipse. this is what free shows: >> > free >> total used free shared buffers cached >> Mem: 4044664 2772556 1272108 0 476432 931564 >> -/+ buffers/cache: 1364560 2680104 >> Swap: 2851496 10896 2840600 >> >> So 1.3GB is used. >> =20 > > I do not have eclipse. I do have a LOT of firefox instances and tabs=20 > open, and my mail folder is about 2 gig in Thunderbird. > > lee@boat:~$ free > total used free shared buffers cached > Mem: 2074856 839148 1235708 0 131500 338428 > -/+ buffers/cache: 369220 1705636 > Swap: 6080560 0 6080560 > > =20 >> Running the same set of applications in windows doesn't take so much=20 >> memory. I have now running outlook, firefox, word, internet explorer,=20 >> emule and sketchup and the total used memory is 871MB. >> =20 > > Or it could be your instance, as I am fitting in 2 gig just fine. Or it = > could be eclipse... But it is not "Linux stinks!" > > =20 >> My laptop is Thinkpad T61. I think the Thinkpad line of laptops is very = >> reliable and widely used that it should just work. >> =20 > > I have currently 2 Dell Inspirons, a Latitude, a IBM T42, a Compaq=20 > Presario 2200 with no issues at all on Jaunty. One of them had major=20 > issues on Hardy. So by my anecdotal evidence, the "Thinkpad line"=20 > works, and by your it does not. Again, it sounds like an issue specific = > to you. > > =20 >>> Same with Windows. Buy well supported hardware and it will work. Buy = >>> poorly supported hardware and it won't. I have a Paperport scanner tha= t=20 >>> won't work under XP or better, but will work in Linux. >>> =20 >>> =20 >> As mentioned, my laptop is Thinkpad T61. I think it should be well suppo= rted >> =20 > > What have you done to support that opinion? A quick google shows more=20 > than a few issues with Linux on this laptop. Or did you just assume it=20 > would be supported? > > =20 >> I just made sure. To check the C drive in Windows, click Win+E,=20 >> right-click on C, select properties->Tools and click Check Now in Error = >> Checking. To fix errors you probably need to reboot, but just to check, = >> there's no need. >> =20 > > I do not have Windows handy, but with XP and older, to do a low level=20 > check, you needed to reboot. Perhaps Vista improved this... I do not kn= ow. > > =20 >> And even if I have to reboot, why is it so hard to ask a disk check? Why= =20 >> isn't there some intuitive way of doing it from the desktop? Why is=20 >> there no way of defragmenting (I know, Ext is built so it allocates=20 >> space in the center, so less fragmentation occurs, still over time=20 >> there is fragmentation) >> =20 > > Did you look at the link? There is a way, but it is not installed by=20 > default. > > As to defragmenting, that is because it is not needed, and is not=20 > possible in the typical way. However, if you really feel you need it,=20 > there are tools if you remount EXT2. You will find that it takes time,=20 > and does not help. In a way, you are saying, "Where is the geese=20 > fitting to lubricate my ball joints?" on a car with sealed ball joints.=20 > I would say sealed ball joints are an improvement. > > =20 >> I think the bug is that Ubuntu uses a lot of memory, freezes, forces me = >> to reboot when I need to take my laptop and has several usability issues. >> =20 > > Yet there seem to be many people with uptimes over a year, running in=20 > far less memory that a typical Windows system, and find Linux far easier = > to use than Windows. > > So how do we get you from where you are now, to where I am now? This is = > a serious question. Would it take something like a "Disk Defragmenter"=20 > Application that when you run it tells you that it is not needed and=20 > gives the sealed ball joint analogy? > > To fix this perception bug, which it is absolutely vital that we=20 > address, we need to first fix your individule problems, and then figure=20 > out why you could not, and than make it so that others can fix them more = > intuitively. No small task... > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Vadim Peretokin (vperetokin) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 20:02:12 -0000 Message-Id: <6995ca080905301302y7ea1e8bax40898b2e9b97d4fa@mail.gmail.com> I haven't heard of the BestOSAbout 3000 yet. Chances are, you'll find other issues elsewhere too. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 06:25:55 -0000 Message-Id: <4A2222F3.7080502@hal-pc.org> Ittay Dror wrote: > So what you are saying is that since everything is working fine for you, = > then it means nothing is wrong with Linux and I have a perception=20 > problem. So everything is fine with Linux if not for the perception=20 > issue? I think not. I think you keep missing my point. Lets say that two people apply for a=20 job at a bank. One is dressed in a professional suit, and is well=20 groomed. The other is in black jeans and a black T-shirt, has a Mohawk=20 and piercings. The perception will be that the later of the two is=20 totally unsuited for bank work. This may not at all be the case, but it=20 doesn't matter if he never gets an interview. This is our perception=20 problem. If everyone thinks Linux is broke (regardless of if it is or=20 not) no one will try it. If they never try it, they will never find out=20 if it is better. > Btw, For some reason, I can't suspend to ram any more. Either X crashes=20 > or nothing happens. I've opened a bug, but I can't say I'm holding my=20 > breath. Good. Holding your breath rarely helps anything. But also keep looking=20 for issues, and don't wait on the bug people. That can take a while.=20 (Example, https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 ) > I have been using linux for 12 years, the last 8 exclusively. And=20 > professionally I've always used Unix / Linux. And I'm about to quit. OK. Let me know how that works for you. Seeing as how I have to=20 support everything else out there, I can tell you that "every dog has=20 his fleas." These are all just tools and use the one that works for=20 you. But you can actually fix problems in Linux. Try that with Vista. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Clement Lefebvre (clementlefebvre) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 08:46:38 -0000 Message-Id: <20090715084640.5613.55447.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Philip: I agree with this.. but that's not a bug, that's a long term commitment. As much as I think it's nice to see this as #1 in Launchpad and all, I'm trying to keep our backlog as small as possible so we can use it to efficiently tackle real bugs (those we CAN fix). I'm moving this bug --> Won't fix. For the sake of it, I'm also giving it a high importance (must be my twisted French mind) :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Adrien Cordonnier (adrien-cordonnier) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 10:06:57 -0000 Message-Id: <20090715100658.5613.68435.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Two recent press releases about the French racketware action have recently been published by the French speaking Libre Software Users' Association (aful.org). Many trials have been held in France during the last past month and sellers now have to display the price of preinstalled software and to offer a refund if asked. For example, Dell has been fined =E2=82=AC50,000 for not displaying software price. Press releases in French: http://www.aful.org/communiques/vente-liee-trois-nouvelles-victoires http://www.aful.org/communiques/interet-consommateur-informatique-confusion= -juges --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: raamee (thiyadaram) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 14:09:35 -0000 Message-Id: <20090720140935.5371.96767.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Architecture: i386 DistroRelease: Ubuntu 9.04 Package: ubuntuone-client 0.90.4+r88-0ubuntu1~ppa1~jaunty PackageArchitecture: all ProcEnviron: SHELL=3D/bin/bash LANG=3Den_IN UbuntuoneClientPackages: ubuntuone-client 0.90.4+r88-0ubuntu1~ppa1~jaunty ubuntuone-storage-protocol N/A ubuntuone-ppa N/A Uname: Linux 2.6.28-11-generic i686 UserGroups: adm admin cdrom dialout lpadmin plugdev sambashare --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Erico Schuch (eschuch) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 11:36:45 -0000 Message-Id: A brincadeira =C3=A9 a seguinte: Clique em "encaminhar e-mail" e troq= ue todas as respostas por suas pr=C3=B3prias respostas. Envie =C3=A0s princip= ais pessoas da sua lista de contato, INCLUINDO a pessoa que te enviou. Coloque o seu nome no 'assunto'. A teoria diz que vc aprender=C3=A1 muitas coisas sobre a pessoa que te enviou e ela sobre vc... n=C3=A3o estrague a divers=C3=A3o...= o resultado =C3=A9 bem interessante 1. Nome completo? Erico Lima Schuch 2. Porque lhe deram esse nome? Minha m=C3=A3e queria Elizabeth, mas meu pai me salvou... Todos os filho= s tem nome de pr=C3=ADncipes da su=C3=A9cia, onde ele morou! ou alguma lenda assi= m... 3. Voc=C3=AA faz pedidos =C3=A0s estrelas? =C3=80s estrelas nunca... 4. Quando foi a =C3=BAltima vez que voc=C3=AA chorou? Estes dias. Pena que n=C3=A3o foi de contente! 5. Gosta da sua letra? Sabe que ela =C3=A9 horrorosa, mas gosto dela mesmo assim... 6. Gosta de p=C3=A3o com o que? Huuummm, p=C3=A3o preto com mel e nata, ou geleia de morango ou goiaba!= !! :p 7.Quantos filhos voc=C3=AA tem? Ainda n=C3=A3o tenho nenhum. Afilhados e sobrinhos sim, minhas paix=C3= =B5es! 8. Como se chamam e quantos anos eles t=C3=AAm? Ih! Jo=C3=A3o, Laura e Miguel. 9. Se vc fosse outra pessoa, seria seu amigo? Sim, sem d=C3=BAvida! (Candy, tu n=C3=A3o =C3=A9 chata n=C3=A3o guria!= de onde tu tirou isso? rsrsrs) 10. Tem um di=C3=A1rio? Sim, mas d=C3=A1 pra se dizer que =C3=A9 quase um mensal, se n=C3=A3o s= emestral. hihi 11. Voc=C3=AA =C3=A9 sarc=C3=A1stico? As vezes, quando meu c=C3=A9rebro faz conex=C3=B5es de coisas suspeita= s... 12. Saltaria de bungee-jump? Ceeeeeerrrtooooo... 13. Desamarra os sapatos antes de tir=C3=A1-los? N=C3=A3o... e me irrito quando tenho que desamarrar o t=C3=AAnis para c= oloc=C3=A1-lo de novo. 14. Acredita que voc=C3=AA seja uma pessoa forte? Sim, sim, sim! 15. Seu sorvete favorito? N=C3=A3o gosto muito de sorvete n=C3=A3o! 16. Quanto cal=C3=A7a? 36 apesar do tamanho... 17. Vermelho ou Preto? Branco e beje 18. O que menos gosta em voc=C3=AA? :| Aquela mania que tenho de achar que ningu=C3=A9m lembra de mim e nem convida pra nada algumas vezes! 19. O que mais gosta em voc=C3=AA? Meu bom-humor e minha disposi=C3=A7=C3=A3o pra fazer as coisas. 20. De quem voc=C3=AA sente saudades? Das viagens! Todas... Mas agrade=C3=A7o por ter vivido cada momento em= todas elas! 21. Gostaria que todas as pessoas que vc enviou esse e-mail te respondessem? Sei que isso n=C3=A3o vai acontecer! 22. Descreva que roupa e cal=C3=A7ado vc esta usando agora? Puxa... Salto 13 que to cal=C3=A7ando, cal=C3=A7a de veludo preta, b= lus=C3=A3o cinza e um cinto preto com tachas e =C3=B3culos! rsrsrs 23. Qual foi a ultima coisa que comeu hj? Um raro peda=C3=A7o de bolo! 24. O que vc esta escutando agora? Tem som ambiente aqui, bem bom... 25. A =C3=BAltima pessoa com quem falou ao telefone? Patrick, patrick, patrick... Adoorooooo 26. Bebida favorita? Suco natural de fruta, qualquer um. 27. Comida favorita? IIIHHHH S=C3=A3o tantas! Mas adoro uma comida chinesa brasileira! rsrs= rs 28. Filme de terror ou com final feliz? Gosto de suspense, mas prefiro rir com desenho infantis. 29. =C3=9Altimo filme que viu no cinema e com quem? Ets e alien=C3=ADgenas em 3D! Coisa do Patrick! Uma del=C3=ADcia! p= =C2=B4roximo: Era do Gelo 3D 30. Dia Favorito do ano? Meu anivers=C3=A1rio! 1=C2=BA de setembro, podem anotar! 31. Inverno ou ver=C3=A3o? Ver=C3=A3o! magricela passa muito frio! 32. Beijos ou abra=C3=A7os? Os dois juntos s=C3=A3o tudo de bom... 33. Sobremesa favorita? Gosto de doce de velho: doce de pera, abacaxi em calda, doce de ab=C3=B3bora, manjar branco, etc... Nada com chocolate me atrai! 34. Quem vc acha q vai te responder IIIhhhh. Poucos! a Amanda! rsrsrs 35. Quem vc acha que n=C3=A3o ir=C3=A1 te responder? Huuummm, meu amigo Dado... 36. Que livro est=C3=A1 lendo? Li agora o Vendedor Pitbull e to com 1808 pra come=C3=A7ar!... 37. O que tem na parede do seu quarto? Recorda=C3=A7=C3=B5es das viagens, chap=C3=A9u de veneza, m=C3=A1scar= a africana, leque chin=C3=AAs..... 38. O que assistiu ontem a noite na TV? N=C3=A3o olhei TV.... 39. Onde foi lugar o mais longe que vc foi? Para China, em todos os sentidos... ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Compartilhe os momentos mais importantes da sua vida com quem voc=C3=AA quiser. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: blackghost (doctormapache) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 12:09:50 -0000 Message-Id: <639750ed0907210509y99ea406qad3e41de414c1be5@mail.gmail.com> WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2009/7/21 Erico Schuch > A brincadeira =C3=A9 a seguinte: Clique em "encaminhar e-mail" e tro= que > todas as respostas por suas pr=C3=B3prias respostas. Envie =C3=A0s princ= ipais > pessoas > da sua lista de contato, INCLUINDO a pessoa que te enviou. Coloque o seu > nome no 'assunto'. A teoria diz que vc aprender=C3=A1 muitas coisas sobre= a > pessoa que te enviou e ela sobre vc... n=C3=A3o estrague a divers=C3=A3o.= .. o > resultado =C3=A9 bem interessante > > > 1. Nome completo? > Erico Lima Schuch > > 2. Porque lhe deram esse nome? > Minha m=C3=A3e queria Elizabeth, mas meu pai me salvou... Todos os filh= os tem > nome de pr=C3=ADncipes da su=C3=A9cia, onde ele morou! ou alguma lenda as= sim... > > 3. Voc=C3=AA faz pedidos =C3=A0s estrelas? > =C3=80s estrelas nunca... > > 4. Quando foi a =C3=BAltima vez que voc=C3=AA chorou? > Estes dias. Pena que n=C3=A3o foi de contente! > > 5. Gosta da sua letra? > Sabe que ela =C3=A9 horrorosa, mas gosto dela mesmo assim... > > 6. Gosta de p=C3=A3o com o que? > Huuummm, p=C3=A3o preto com mel e nata, ou geleia de morango ou goiaba= !!! :p > > 7.Quantos filhos voc=C3=AA tem? > Ainda n=C3=A3o tenho nenhum. Afilhados e sobrinhos sim, minhas paix=C3= =B5es! > > 8. Como se chamam e quantos anos eles t=C3=AAm? > Ih! Jo=C3=A3o, Laura e Miguel. > > 9. Se vc fosse outra pessoa, seria seu amigo? > Sim, sem d=C3=BAvida! (Candy, tu n=C3=A3o =C3=A9 chata n=C3=A3o guria= ! de onde tu tirou > isso? rsrsrs) > > 10. Tem um di=C3=A1rio? > Sim, mas d=C3=A1 pra se dizer que =C3=A9 quase um mensal, se n=C3=A3o = semestral. hihi > > 11. Voc=C3=AA =C3=A9 sarc=C3=A1stico? > As vezes, quando meu c=C3=A9rebro faz conex=C3=B5es de coisas suspeit= as... > > 12. Saltaria de bungee-jump? > Ceeeeeerrrtooooo... > > 13. Desamarra os sapatos antes de tir=C3=A1-los? > N=C3=A3o... e me irrito quando tenho que desamarrar o t=C3=AAnis para = coloc=C3=A1-lo de > novo. > > 14. Acredita que voc=C3=AA seja uma pessoa forte? > Sim, sim, sim! > > 15. Seu sorvete favorito? > N=C3=A3o gosto muito de sorvete n=C3=A3o! > > 16. Quanto cal=C3=A7a? > 36 apesar do tamanho... > > 17. Vermelho ou Preto? > Branco e beje > > 18. O que menos gosta em voc=C3=AA? > :| Aquela mania que tenho de achar que ningu=C3=A9m lembra de mim e n= em > convida pra nada algumas vezes! > > 19. O que mais gosta em voc=C3=AA? > Meu bom-humor e minha disposi=C3=A7=C3=A3o pra fazer as coisas. > > 20. De quem voc=C3=AA sente saudades? > Das viagens! Todas... Mas agrade=C3=A7o por ter vivido cada momento e= m todas > elas! > > 21. Gostaria que todas as pessoas que vc enviou esse e-mail te > respondessem? > Sei que isso n=C3=A3o vai acontecer! > > 22. Descreva que roupa e cal=C3=A7ado vc esta usando agora? > Puxa... Salto 13 que to cal=C3=A7ando, cal=C3=A7a de veludo preta, = blus=C3=A3o cinza > e um cinto preto com tachas e =C3=B3culos! rsrsrs > > 23. Qual foi a ultima coisa que comeu hj? > Um raro peda=C3=A7o de bolo! > > 24. O que vc esta escutando agora? > Tem som ambiente aqui, bem bom... > > > 25. A =C3=BAltima pessoa com quem falou ao telefone? > Patrick, patrick, patrick... Adoorooooo > > 26. Bebida favorita? > Suco natural de fruta, qualquer um. > > 27. Comida favorita? > IIIHHHH S=C3=A3o tantas! Mas adoro uma comida chinesa brasileira! rsr= srs > > 28. Filme de terror ou com final feliz? > > Gosto de suspense, mas prefiro rir com desenho infantis. > > 29. =C3=9Altimo filme que viu no cinema e com quem? > Ets e alien=C3=ADgenas em 3D! Coisa do Patrick! Uma del=C3=ADcia! p= =C2=B4roximo: Era > do Gelo 3D > > 30. Dia Favorito do ano? > Meu anivers=C3=A1rio! 1=C2=BA de setembro, podem anotar! > > 31. Inverno ou ver=C3=A3o? > Ver=C3=A3o! magricela passa muito frio! > > 32. Beijos ou abra=C3=A7os? > Os dois juntos s=C3=A3o tudo de bom... > > 33. Sobremesa favorita? > Gosto de doce de velho: doce de pera, abacaxi em calda, doce de > ab=C3=B3bora, manjar branco, etc... Nada com chocolate me atrai! > > 34. Quem vc acha q vai te responder > IIIhhhh. Poucos! a Amanda! rsrsrs > > 35. Quem vc acha que n=C3=A3o ir=C3=A1 te responder? > Huuummm, meu amigo Dado... > > 36. Que livro est=C3=A1 lendo? > Li agora o Vendedor Pitbull e to com 1808 pra come=C3=A7ar!... > > 37. O que tem na parede do seu quarto? > Recorda=C3=A7=C3=B5es das viagens, chap=C3=A9u de veneza, m=C3=A1sca= ra africana, leque > chin=C3=AAs..... > > 38. O que assistiu ontem a noite na TV? > N=C3=A3o olhei TV.... > > 39. Onde foi lugar o mais longe que vc foi? > Para China, em todos os sentidos... > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------ > Compartilhe os momentos mais importantes da sua vida com quem voc=C3=AA > quiser.< > http://www.microsoft.com/brasil/windows/windowslive/products/photos-share= .aspx?tab=3D1 > > > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --=20 www.acidoprusico.blogspot.com =C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7 En el pc pon=C3=ADa: Requiere Windows Vista o superior, por eso instal=C3= =A9 Ubuntu. [Linux User # 468588, Ubuntu user # 21305] --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Joel Bryan Juliano (joelbryan) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 02:34:29 -0000 Message-Id: <20090723023429.28462.56776.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> NO! Your doing it all wrong. What Ubuntu needs is a little CHARISMA! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: jjt (webmaster-jjtcomputing) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 18:02:36 -0000 Message-Id: <20090822180239.15807.2371.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> I think Ubuntu needs blogging about. I started a Linux blog, but one person is not enough. You can get a free wordpress blog at http://www.wordpress.com/ and everyone should do that. It is also important that Ubuntu is more user-friendly. I recently wrote an article about playing Encrypted DVDs on Ubuntu - http://blog.jjtcomputing.co.uk/2009/08/22/playing-encrypted-dvds-in- ubuntu-the-complete-guide/. Things like that shouldn't have to be documented on people's blogs - they should either work or have a simple manual page on wiki.ubuntu.com that tells people how to do it. More Windows-like features would really help increase market share. Until about a year ago, I was not connected to the internet on my Ubuntu machine. This meant I had to install manually 58 packages to get Rhythmbox to play mp3s. This wasted so much time that I installed XP on the machine =3D not good!! Until using Ubuntu is easy, market share cannot be expected to increase. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Paul Flint (flint) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:41:22 -0000 Message-Id: Dear Raamee, A better URL for this information might be: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/+activity Regards, Flint On Mon, 20 Jul 2009, raamee wrote: > Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 14:10:34 -0000 > From: raamee > Reply-To: Bug 1 <1@bugs.launchpad.net> > To: flint@flint.com > Subject: [Bug 1] >=20 > > ** Attachment added: "Dependencies.txt" > http://launchpadlibrarian.net/29284595/Dependencies.txt > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > Kindest Regards, Paul Flint (802) 479-2360 /************************************ Based upon email reliability concerns, please send an acknowledgment in response to this note. Paul Flint Barre Open Systems Institute 17 Averill Street Barre, VT 05641 http://www.bosivt.org http://www.flint.com/home skype: flintinfotech Work: (202) 537-0480 Consilium _ gratuitum .~. ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) valet /V\ against HTML e-mail X quanti /( )\ www.asciiribbon.org / \ numerantur ^^-^^ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jared (jared-vanvolkenburg) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:38:53 -0000 Message-Id: <20090917113853.32099.74423.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> .home.jaredvanvolkenburg..cache.ubuntuone.log.syncdaemon.exceptions.log: =20 Architecture: i386 CrashDB: ubuntuone DistroRelease: Ubuntu 9.04 NonfreeKernelModules: nvidia Package: ubuntuone-client 0.95.0+r213-0ubuntu1~ppa2~jaunty PackageArchitecture: all ProcEnviron: SHELL=3D/bin/bash PATH=3D(custom, user) LANG=3Den_US.UTF-8 ThirdParty: True Uname: Linux 2.6.28-15-generic i686 UserGroups: adm admin cdrom dialout lpadmin plugdev sambashare --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Subsanek (subsanek) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 12:56:27 -0000 Message-Id: <20091026125627.27996.45612.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I confirm this bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: LimCore (limcore) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 03:00:08 -0000 Message-Id: <20091103030008.27636.87352.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Ubuntu 9.10 is full of bugs. I found like 10 of them onyl today (1st day after upgrade). --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Ansus (neptunia) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 11:34:52 -0000 Message-Id: <20091103113453.15012.13287.malone@palladium.canonical.com> It seems this bug is blocked by this one https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager- pptp/+bug/107738 at least in several countries. Can anybody please mark that bug as blocker? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:09:48 -0000 Message-Id: <4AF071EC.50407@hal-pc.org> Ansus wrote: > It seems this bug is blocked by this one > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager- > pptp/+bug/107738 at least in several countries. Can anybody please mark > that bug as blocker? I was all set to rebuke you when I looked at the links... Wow... You=20 are absolutely correct that this is a Bug 1 problem. The problem is=20 that we have a tendency to work on problems that we have, and set aside=20 problems that we don't see. This can leave some holes in the final=20 product, and this is one of them. So in the spirit of Bug 1, let me offer a patch for Bugs like this... First, nm-pptp not installed by default is not a bug. It is a design=20 decision... So you can not fix it through bug reporting. (Whishlist is=20 the correct category for it) But you can fix it with blueprints, and=20 developer summits. Look at these blueprints...=20 https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu?searchtext=3Dpptp Taking charge=20 of some of these, and creating a plan for raising the visibility of the=20 problem goes on blueprints. Look at=20 https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-bug-workflow=20 as an example of a good blueprint. Also, but taking on pptp, we also=20 triage and combine all the pptp bugs floating out there, and take some=20 work off the devs. (as defined in that blueprint) That will increase=20 there support. If you want to do this, contact me directly. We have 15 days to get the=20 launchpad stuff in order, and I can attend the UDS to promote it. I can=20 help and promote, but I do not have the time right now to lead this kind=20 of project. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Andre (ajx) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:24:43 -0000 Message-Id: <20091104232443.30524.59069.malone@wampee.canonical.com> "Linux's share of netbooks surging, not sagging, says analyst" read on at Computerworld: http://is.gd/4NnLT --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Wolfgang Glas (wglas) Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 15:49:32 -0000 Message-Id: <20091107154935.29850.71260.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> I appreciate it very much, that the sabdfl has started work on this issue ;-) Unfortunately, this bug is blocked by a large number of pertaining quality issues in ubuntu distributions. (flash/amd64 mess, extremely varying sound/hibernation mileage with each distro upgrade, closed- source display drivers destabilizing the kernel and not implementing the latest X.org features, just to mention the most painful ones....) Moreover, it is impossible to get a support contact with canonical or someone else, which assures, that such nasty issues are fixed within a reasonable time. To sum up, I think there's a lot of work for the sabdfl in the field of better cooperation with hardware vendors and finding a Linux desktop business model, which allows to buy more service than a friendly installation support, which helps you to work around well-known bugs. My personal opinion is, that it turned out to be impossible to assure a reasonable distro quality within a six-month release period. The stabilization period for a distribution, which *really* hits the masses probably needs to be substantially longer. Best regards and good look in your bug#1 efforts, Wolfgang --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 16:35:15 -0000 Message-Id: <20091109163515.30581.37308.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> http://marketshare.hitslink.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=3D1 Internet Explorer have dropped to below 65 % from 70% in the end of Decembe= r. If this continues it means that they will pass 50% market share in less = then three years.=20 So it seams that we are winning the browser wars. When it comes to Operating systems I would really like to see something like an "UbuntuStation" that comes bundled and is tested with Ubuntu, and include Ubuntu support. That would make it possible to market Ubuntu trough the traditional marketing channels. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Conrad Knauer (atheoi) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 20:06:43 -0000 Message-Id: <2c8763bb0911091206l67f43045uc1a2ca8a1d25fee@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Faldegast wrote: > http://marketshare.hitslink.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=3D1 > Internet Explorer have dropped to below 65 % from 70% in the end of Decem= ber. If this continues it means that they will pass 50% market share in les= s then three years. You have to be careful with browser stats; due to the fact that each company that produces them is taking a different sample of the internet and extrapolating from it, you can end up with a 'blind men and an elephant' situation (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant) Compare other October data: http://gs.statcounter.com/ IE ALL =3D 57.17% http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php IE6+7+8 =3D 51.22% ALSO, 'global' data does not reflect the fact that there are already countries (AFAIK, they're all in Europe) where not only is IE < 50% but in fact where FF is > 50%! e.g. according to StatCounter: Germany http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-DE-monthly-200810-200911 Finland http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-FI-monthly-200810-200911 Hungary http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-HU-monthly-200810-200911 (again though, compare to another source from Sept. http://www.atinternet-institute.com/en-us/browsers-barometer/browser-barome= ter-september-2009/index-1-2-3-180.html which shows it as less) > So it seams that we are winning the browser wars. That has been the trend, but note that OEMs have not helped at all; AFAIK Windows preloads still all use IE (though there is light on that front in Europe; see http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/technology/companies/05soft.html for example) What we NEED is to convince some OEMs other than Dell that they should at least offer Ubuntu (not misc rebranded whatever distro) on their computers and sure, make a big deal about the fact that Firefox is preloaded as a feature. CK --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mangar (mycrapaccount-deactivatedaccount) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 23:30:41 -0000 Message-Id: <20091214233043.16745.25544.malone@wampee.canonical.com> inactive --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mangar (mycrapaccount-deactivatedaccount) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 23:32:32 -0000 Message-Id: <20091214233234.8984.86446.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> irrelevant to openoffice --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mangar (mycrapaccount-deactivatedaccount) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 23:34:31 -0000 Message-Id: <20091214233432.9050.46952.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Inactive fork --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mangar (mycrapaccount-deactivatedaccount) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 23:35:23 -0000 Message-Id: <20091214233527.9050.58295.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> inactive fork --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Dick Dowdell (ddowdell) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:00:02 -0000 Message-Id:
Dear friend
hi,  I bought a laptop from a website: www.kauyps.com last week. I have got the product. Its  quality  is very good and the price is competitive. They also sell phones, TV, psp, motor and so  on. By the  way, they import product from Korea and sell new and original products. They have good  reputation and  have many good feedbacks. In order to meet the arrival of Christmas, this company  decided to give 50% discount on shipping cost to promote the products. If you need these products,  looking over this website will be a clever choice. I  am sure you will get many surprise and  benefits.
Greetings!
--===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Dick Dowdell (ddowdell) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 16:28:13 -0000 Message-Id: Hi, You may have recently received an email purporting to be from me with the subject "Dear friend!". It is the result of a virus hijacking my email address book. The email is fraudulent and should be deleted. It is an attempt to steal your account information. My apologies, Dick Dowdell 508-498-7919/508-528-4018 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Omer Akram (om26er) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 14:00:49 -0000 Message-Id: <20091220140049.24031.12301.malone@wampee.canonical.com> today i made a multiboot install of ubuntu on a windows machine of my cousin. and i found that the theme and artwork of ubuntu was all dark. the xsplash, windows border, default background, and even the gtk theme was dark. plz consider these areas better for Lucid. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: krahim (karim-rahim) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:33:20 -0000 Message-Id: <20100121163320.19875.72695.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Wow, I googled ubuntu bugs and found this. I have to say I'm not impressed with the thinking (or lack their of) that went in to reporting this bug. Linux is an effective open source operating system, it is not intended to be Nike, Apple, or Microsoft. I also have concerns about the number of releases. Karmic was quite buggy and I heard many people reinstalling the system. Perhaps 2 a year is too many. I use my computer for scientific computing and managed to make it work with an upgrade without a reinstall. I had to disable ufw at grub. Currently I use Karmic and I have used ubuntu since before Dapper. Prior to that I used Gentoo, Slackware, and Debian. I have to say it is excellent work that is done in general making Linux available many people, but I caution that thinking about market share has not helped Microsoft or Apple in building an effective usable quality Operating System--it has helped them gain market share. Best Wishes, Karim --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Randall Ross (randall) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:52:35 -0000 Message-Id: <4B588653.4080602@executiv.es> The computing landscape is littered with the carcasses of companies that=20 failed to effectively market their systems. This bug acknowledges that=20 fact in the purest sense. Stated mathematically: No market share =3D No future * and * Popularity <> Quality --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Michael Lerro (lerro-m) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 13:46:49 -0000 Message-Id: <20100123134649.10560.34432.malone@palladium.canonical.com> can i just say that windows has majority market share for a reason. imho ubuntu isnt nearly as good in a number of areas the concern the average user. for a start it isnt even possible to listen to mp3's or watch movies in default ubuntu. windows is popular because well 1 as it is already popular people just goto it and its in computer stores as default etc but 2. because anything u can do on any other operating system u can do on windows... play games, what have you. afaik no other OS can really make that claim. from my experiances with linux / windows i would personally say it works better " out of the box" aswell, which the average user (and me) like. i installed vista on my mothers computer and it didnt even need video drivers to run aero get hardware acceleration or play most simpler 3d games, the audio was nice and came with an equalizer etc by default. linux on the other hand has outdated, imo poorly supported device drivers, i had problems with jacksense and i couldnt even find a basic equalizer or what have you. imo linux will start earning more market share when it can compete on the same grounds as windows, and do more than what windows can do - preferably better. until then im afraid i have to keep using windows as my primary os, linux seems alright but it doesnt do everything i want it to - let alone easily. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Shane Fagan (shanepatrickfagan) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:23:15 -0000 Message-Id: <1264256595.7619.28.camel@shane-stable> I dont think you did any reading up on the mp3 issue or on the driver issues.=20 1. We cant ship mp3's by default because its expensive. We are a free OS, windows costs at least =E2=82=AC100 so they can afford to ship it becau= se its included in the price. So dont complain its not hard to install (just try to play an mp3 and it will find and install the codec in a few seconds) 2. You say "linux on the other hand has outdated, imo poorly supported device drivers". We support a lot more drivers out of the box than windows. You just didnt see the notification saying "installing drivers" on windows. The main driver problem on ubuntu at the moment is graphics drivers but there are drivers available but you have to install them. We support a lot more devices than windows and most of the time they work better on ubuntu. On the "outdated and the poorly supported" we are very actively supported billions are spent each year by Intel, Novell, IBM, The linux foundation..etc so that is a load of crap. Go read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_kernel and stop saying ill informed nonsense. =20 I dont think you understand what we are doing here, we are offering something free to world and if you have a problem with something you can fix it simple as that. We have limitations to what we can ship in the default distro but we put whatever we can. Better drivers comes with market share. We wont ship mp3 codecs or any other patented codecs. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:43:57 -0000 Message-Id: <5949d80c1001230643v43198a47qd27ddda20eccd7b5@mail.gmail.com> It is very good to hear from an "average" user. His complaints are standard fare, ones that we have heard repeatedly, and perhaps a few that need to be addressed. First: to Bob. Linux is free, no need to buy anything, therefore no funds generated fpr marketing support. Microsoft is one of the world's best marketing companies, and generates huge profits. Next: the question Bob failed to ask, why do people use Linux ? Because it's free ? No, Bob, you can buy some versions of Linux, but you are really buying support. "Default Ubuntu" !! very catchy, but to implement Ubuntu to use as Bob wanted, requires some reading. OK Bob, last year one of my computers overheated, dirty fan, poor cooling etc, so I had another one built. (and yes I have no problem building my own) At the computer shop, here in Mazatlan Mexico, they asked me if I wanted Windows installed, and they would do it for "free". Very amusing. I returned the system to my home office (soho) and turned it on, took a CD with Ubuntu 8.04, and was up and running , on the 'net in 12 minutes, then downloading additional programs. At one time I ran 2 computer shops, and the best we ever did was 30 minutes. With me so far ? Next major addition was "Open Office", which is far superior to MS Office, and faster. Now, Bob, I will deal with the real problem that irks me. Choices !!! Far too many. There are no music programs available that I can not play ! All of the movie formats are playable. At any time I can run 2, or 3 browsers,it's a fun thing! But, some reading is required. Whereas if you fail to read the "fine print" in MS Windows, look out ! With MS Windows you are guaranteed to get viruses. If you use the Internet a lot, or leave your machine "on" all of the time it will become a "BOT", Such fun. Personally, I have stopped fixing friends machines that use MS Windows. One had 27 viruses, they said it was a "little slow" But I have installed Ubuntu on countless machines, so I don't have to go and fix the (expletive) viruses. So, here's the truth Bob: Ubuntu is superior to MS Windows. There are some programs , like Adobe Photoshop, that are not available "for free". But, as one instructor, a professional web designer pointed out, GIMP is far superior and very complicated, which is why Ubuntu includes "F-Spot" . To quote Bob: "until then im afraid i have to keep using windows as my primary os," My guess is that Bob probably uses IE8 as well. see : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=3D1385256 Yes, Bob, you can take courses in some community colleges that will help you with Ubuntu or any version of Linux. There is another concern that Bob did not address, one that I have heard far too often. "you Linux geeks think that you're smarter than the rest of us" OK. By not getting viruses, have a huge number of programs available and using a secure system makes me a "geek', so be it. AllenGG On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 8:46 AM, Bob! wrote: > can i just say that windows has majority market share for a reason. imho > ubuntu isnt nearly as good in a number of areas the concern the average > user. for a start it isnt even possible to listen to mp3's or watch > movies in default ubuntu. windows is popular because well 1 as it is > already popular people just goto it and its in computer stores as > default etc but 2. because anything u can do on any other operating > system u can do on windows... play games, what have you. afaik no other > OS can really make that claim. from my experiances with linux / windows > i would personally say it works better " out of the box" aswell, which > the average user (and me) like. i installed vista on my mothers computer > and it didnt even need video drivers to run aero get hardware > acceleration or play most simpler 3d games, the audio was nice and came > with an equalizer etc by default. linux on the other hand has outdated, > imo poorly supported device drivers, i had problems with jacksense and i > couldnt even find a basic equalizer or what have you. imo linux will > start earning more market share when it can compete on the same grounds > as windows, and do more than what windows can do - preferably better. > until then im afraid i have to keep using windows as my primary os, > linux seems alright but it doesnt do everything i want it to - let alone > easily. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: In Progress > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Confirmed > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In P= rogress > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: New > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > -- http://picasaweb.google.com/allenggraham/Mazatlan# --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: u-foka (ufooka) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 16:01:14 -0000 Message-Id: <20100123160114.10614.52547.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Hy! I want to share you my experience with the driver thing... I bought an usb 3g modem... It took about five minutes to me to install it under ubuntu... I put it in, nothing happened... so I looked it's device id with lsusb and googled for that... the solution came up and, after some copy-paste process, I can use my modem trough network manager a smooth way integrated into the system... (what don't needed any additional configuration, what I done that to setup usb_modeswitch and udev to switch the device into the good mode if I connect it) Some time I had to install the same device on a windows xp machine.. Windows installed about 3 or 4 drivers... then I get a virtual cd thing whe= re I can install it's manager application what will switch the modes and ma= nages the connections... after it's installation I had to restart windows..= . what first missed to switch the device somehow... after the second restar= t and another 4 or 5 installing hardware messages... I can used the device.= .. that toked about 15 minutes... Finally I installed it in windows 7... the controller application hacks it's window border (I can't see why, there isnt any special) and looks like on xp... ugly... and what worst if it runs... windows if falling back to moving windows (any) with only an empty border... So I thank god that I can happily use it on linux and not need to deal with that shit... The devices is supported on windows and mac... not on linux... And if any other devices not supported on linux... it is a fault of linux, = that the manufacturer is too lazy to make another driver, not only for wind= ows? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Dave Stroud (bigdavesr) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 16:48:49 -0000 Message-Id: <20100123164849.19821.77344.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> My first experience with ubuntu was very good. Everything worked out of the box. The only driver problem I have had was with my lexmark printer.Thats because Lexmark has chosen to not support linux.I run an old windows os partition just for that printer It took me three days to get the driver and to get it up and running.I have an older computer and if you could put vista or win. 7 on it I still would not put out the money for it.WE have bought 2 95 , two 98 .1 Me . and 1 xp Totaling nearly $ 700.00 . I have used every ubuntu since 6.06 and a couple of other linux distros for a total cost of zero . Ill stick with ubuntu. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 16:50:05 -0000 Message-Id: <4B5B28BD.1080907@hal-pc.org> Once again we have a problem communicating with the customer. We still=20 have all these old myths that are no longer true. Bob! wrote: > can i just say that windows has majority market share for a reason. imho > ubuntu isnt nearly as good in a number of areas the concern the average > user. But the main reason is a lack of knowledge. > for a start it isnt even possible to listen to mp3's or watch > movies in default ubuntu. Not true. It is not possible to download a CD with the codecs for free=20 because of licensing. But if you buy a system with Ubuntu on it, it=20 generally has the codecs pre-intalled. Also, the Windows codec=20 installer is a little more seamless in how it downloads codecs without=20 you knowing. > windows is popular because well 1 as it is > already popular people just goto it and its in computer stores as > default etc but 2. because anything u can do on any other operating > system u can do on windows... play games, what have you. afaik no other > OS can really make that claim. Not true. There are more than a few programs that only work on Linux,=20 or work with severly reduced functionality on Windows. Also, there are=20 MANY programs that will only work on one version of Windows, so there is=20 no version of anything that will "run it all." > from my experiances with linux / windows > i would personally say it works better " out of the box" aswell, which > the average user (and me) like. Which box? Are you comparing a pre-installed Windows box with a self=20 install of Ubuntu? That is comparing apples to jet aircraft. I have=20 delivered several Ubuntu systems, and the customers love them and want=20 more. While they are not for all purposes, they are amazing at some. > i installed vista on my mothers computer > and it didnt even need video drivers to run aero get hardware > acceleration or play most simpler 3d games, the audio was nice and came > with an equalizer etc by default. Uh... No. It needed drivers. They were either already on the CD, or=20 downloaded on the fly. And the same thing happens with Ubuntu, with the=20 right hardware. And with the wrong hardware, both Ubuntu and Windows=20 will have issues. > linux on the other hand has outdated, > imo poorly supported device drivers, i had problems with jacksense and i > couldnt even find a basic equalizer or what have you. There was a good nVidia article on phoronix talking about how most of=20 the nVidia driver is shared code across all systems. The main library=20 is actually the same file. I can not answer the audio mixing questions=20 as I have never used it. > imo linux will > start earning more market share when it can compete on the same grounds > as windows, and do more than what windows can do - preferably better. > until then im afraid i have to keep using windows as my primary os, > linux seems alright but it doesnt do everything i want it to - let alone > easily. This is the most telling part of your comment. Linux already can=20 compete on the same grounds as Windows, and can do things far better=20 than Windows. However, configuration is not trivial (Neither is=20 Windows, but the mostly come pre-configured) and perception is way=20 behind. Also, the staggering amount of choice is overwhelming. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: drupopuppis (daniele-pais) Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 01:19:29 -0000 Message-Id: <20100204011929.19399.67583.malone@soybean.canonical.com> I must admit that this bug is so big that probably will take a while to solve...{if}. Anyway, as for my self, I am Italian but live in London with my family from many years now. I have tried to source among the people that I know or I meet regularly, surprisingly most of them have no idea of what Linux / Ubuntu is all about. -- Answers I got when I asked what linux was? 1- I normally use Hotmail 2- I don't need antivirus 3- is a version of Apple While I do believe that there is a lot of confusion and fuss about what linux does and is, I have come to the conclusion that a great amount of people can't even distinguish what is the difference between an Operating System and a Web Browser. What I envision for the future of Linux and Open source is to spread more and more in to schools and college so that students can come across it on early stages, if you ask the average guy of my age, [I am 40], you will see the expression of his face changing a bit in to a question mark. At some point I have sourced differently by going out in main shopping street and visiting computer shops and electronics to see who and where was selling PC or Laptops with Linux pre installed, and, a part for a few very basic linux editions for cheap netbooks, I haven't seen anything of the flavour of Ubuntu coming installed in brand new machines. I would like to extend this opportunity to anyone as firmly interested as me and do it ourself. It would be fantastic to open a shop where a client pays for the hardware not for the software, or where a client buys a PC and a full OS dvd is given together for backup and restore. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: myfreeweb (myfreeweb) Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:35:57 -0000 Message-Id: <20100207213557.31330.80563.malone@soybean.canonical.com> This bug is almost fixed in Russia :) http://www.linuxcenter.ru/lib/press/eldorado_lc.phtml In 2009, over 30% PCs in Eldorado stores (over 1100 stores!!) had GNU/Linux= installed. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jackson (shades97) Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:38:50 -0000 Message-Id: <20100208223850.15677.71155.malone@soybean.canonical.com> In US schools, a far more sinister bug has taken root: OSX! Think of the children (like me)? what are we to do? Apple is giving their "OS" for free out to schools, and now they don't see the reason to switch1 somebody, please, help me! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Andy Brook (javahollic) Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:04:07 -0000 Message-Id: Sorry, you are beyond help, use Pingu-Jitsu and die an honourable death... On 8 February 2010 22:38, Jackson wrote: > In US schools, a far more sinister bug has taken root: OSX! Think of the > children (like me)? what are we to do? Apple is giving their "OS" for > free out to schools, and now they don't see the reason to switch1 > somebody, please, help me! > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: racecar56 (racecar56) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:32:01 -0000 Message-Id: <20100213173201.24686.60843.malone@palladium.canonical.com> This is a very bad bug in the US. I'm glad my new computer I built doesn't = have Windows, but Kubuntu 9.10 amd64 instead. This bug would have more ease of being fixed if bug #44082 was fixed. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: IDWMaster (webadm) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:47:39 -0000 Message-Id: <20100220184739.18688.7374.malone@wampee.canonical.com> This bug is present in my community as well. I live in the United States (Minnesota) and only know a few people who use Ubuntu. I've convinced a few people to switch to Ubuntu, and even become involved in active development on small projects. It is sometimes difficult to get people to switch, because there are so many programs which they believe to "only work with Windows". Some people say that they can't get videos to play right, or that Ubuntu is too hard to use. Their only problem is that they are not educated about Ubuntu, because they have been taught how to use Microsoft products ever since they learned how to use a computer. The problem in my country is that the United States government actually endorses the use of Windows. Windows is used in public schools, and many public libraries. In order to r= esolve this bug, we need to find a way to get the United States government = to switch. It would solve many problems if they switched, because Windows c= urrently causes: * Cyber-Security threats to the US * More economic turmoil * Increased school spending (schools spend millions on Windows machines, wh= en they could get Ubuntu for free) * Outsourcing of software development to foreign countries; which results i= n less jobs available in the US This bug also makes it more difficult for software developers in the US to = start businesses and to earn money. Many people in the US think that softwa= re development is some kind of joke! Developers are not taken seriously bec= ause of MS. As a developer; I'm forced to make software for Windows, because there are = not many people who use Ubuntu where I live.=20 I publish software for both Ubuntu and for Windows. Many of my software projects are open-source. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Angel Angelov (dexterabc) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 10:53:53 -0000 Message-Id: <20100310105353.14871.11548.malone@wampee.canonical.com> At least OSX is light years better than the 'other' non-free widely used OS --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Linux000 (michael-yoyo) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 03:55:47 -0000 Message-Id: <20100311035549.15870.14221.malone@soybean.canonical.com> Ubuntu is currently working on fixing this bug, so it should be in progress :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Linux000 (michael-yoyo) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 04:05:35 -0000 Message-Id: <20100311040535.15167.10637.malone@palladium.canonical.com> In Texas, USA, I believe this bug is caused by two mal-formed variables in peoples minds, first 'Linux !=3D User Friendly' and 'Windows =3D User Friendly', both obviously wrong. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Friedrich Strohmaier (bitsfritz) Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 12:33:48 -0000 Message-Id: <20100408123352.5035.55454.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Fixing this bug needs fixing of other severe bugs! One of them: Bug #255008 is marked as "won't fix". There are a lot of duplicates and it = is reported to affect lucid lynx as well (even if filed against intrepid ib= ex). Shure every one's bug is the most important (I'm no exception :o))), but this one affects basic keyboardmapping in X-environment. The keyboard up to now is the main interface to do things on a computer. Not properly working keyboard means not properly working ubuntu! I repeat in this place: Everyone with a xmodmap customized keyboard mapping doing a LTS upgrade wil= l run in unusable keyboard! here my resume (which took me 2 days of searching): https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/255008/comments/= 129 If I did severe mistakes bringing this up - please point me out how to do better! :o)) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 12:57:55 -0000 Message-Id: Hello Freidrich ! First, all operating systems have bugs. Probably Ubuntu is one of the best versions of Linux, but it is not, and never will be, completely free of bugs. Most are minor. Some O/S's are littered with bugs, many crucial and painful. For example "Windows Vista". On comparison Ubuntu is much safer and far more "bug-free" than Vista. You will see advertisements in every media for Windows "7", all of the line was done by numerical code. Is "7" great ? Who knows, maybe. If, yes IF, the Linux community wanted to ante up millions of dollars, Euros, Pounds, Yen , Pesos etc to advertise Linux this whole situation would change quickly. IF, we all donated $50, or E50 etc, we could launch an ad campaign. So, it's about money. Base Linux O/S's are free. You can pay for support, customising etc. So, your problem with one bug should be addressed in "Launchpad". Tell me, is there something similar in Microsoft or Apple ? Allengg On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 8:33 AM, Friedrich Strohmaier < ubuntu_bugs@bits-fritz.de> wrote: > Fixing this bug needs fixing of other severe bugs! > > One of them: > Bug #255008 is marked as "won't fix". There are a lot of duplicates and it > is reported to affect lucid lynx as well (even if filed against intrepid > ibex). > > Shure every one's bug is the most important (I'm no exception :o))), but > this one affects basic keyboardmapping in X-environment. The keyboard up > to now is the main interface to do things on a computer. Not properly > working keyboard means not properly working ubuntu! > > I repeat in this place: > Everyone with a xmodmap customized keyboard mapping doing a LTS upgrade > will run in unusable keyboard! > > here my resume (which took me 2 days of searching): > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/255008/comment= s/129 > > If I did severe mistakes bringing this up - please point me out how to > do better! :o)) > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: bert07 (marien.bert) Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 14:10:11 -0000 Message-Id: <4BBDE3C3.8020607@telenet.be> Okay. I agree that Vista was a huge mistake of Microsoft. Win 7 is (good=20 fo us) better. I use several flavours of Linux and I do like it very much. Personally I=20 prefer Gnome. Though in the early years there were many problems according hardware,=20 these issues are mostly (not all) solved. The Linux community is working very hard. And especially that makes Linux very interesting for me. Everyone can get involved in Linux; you do not have to be a developer,=20 one can just help by testing, get involved that way. And there are so many flavours that surely there must be one Linux for=20 everyone somewhere. Microsoft has only the few versions it sells. Mind you, some people are working on a deriviate of Windows (ReactOs=20 http://www.reactos.org/en/index.html) and I'm watching it's progression. Because every OS has his own ad- and disadvantages, one has to give=20 every OS the benefit of the doubt. But, and this is my conclusion, Linux really gets better every day. On 08/04/2010 14:57, Allen Graham wrote: > Hello Freidrich ! First, all operating systems have bugs. > Probably Ubuntu is one of the best versions of Linux, but it is not, and > never will be, completely free of bugs. Most are minor. > Some O/S's are littered with bugs, many crucial and painful. For example > "Windows Vista". > On comparison Ubuntu is much safer and far more "bug-free" than Vista. > You will see advertisements in every media for Windows "7", all of the li= ne > was done by numerical code. > Is "7" great ? Who knows, maybe. > If, yes IF, the Linux community wanted to ante up millions of dollars, > Euros, Pounds, Yen , Pesos etc to advertise Linux this whole situation wo= uld > change quickly. > IF, we all donated $50, or E50 etc, we could launch an ad campaign. > So, it's about money. > Base Linux O/S's are free. You can pay for support, customising etc. > So, your problem with one bug should be addressed in "Launchpad". > Tell me, is there something similar in Microsoft or Apple ? > Allengg > > On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 8:33 AM, Friedrich Strohmaier< > ubuntu_bugs@bits-fritz.de> wrote: > > =20 >> Fixing this bug needs fixing of other severe bugs! >> >> One of them: >> Bug #255008 is marked as "won't fix". There are a lot of duplicates and = it >> is reported to affect lucid lynx as well (even if filed against intrepid >> ibex). >> >> Shure every one's bug is the most important (I'm no exception :o))), but >> this one affects basic keyboardmapping in X-environment. The keyboard up >> to now is the main interface to do things on a computer. Not properly >> working keyboard means not properly working ubuntu! >> >> I repeat in this place: >> Everyone with a xmodmap customized keyboard mapping doing a LTS upgrade >> will run in unusable keyboard! >> >> here my resume (which took me 2 days of searching): >> >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/255008/commen= ts/129 >> >> If I did severe mistakes bringing this up - please point me out how to >> do better! :o)) >> >> =20 > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mathilda Young (gtrsdk) Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 01:28:18 -0000 Message-Id: <20100409012818.5035.45070.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Windows 7 netbook (starter edition) users have started looking to linux dis= tros because W7 Starter well... It seems a lot like Vista and you can't do = anything. Microsoft seems to be trying to be trying to kill the netbook are= a that they have W7 on. Looks like the reputation is going down for Windows= 7 and since XP makes the netbooks go slow, we should focus on keeping the = netbook edition lightweight and easy to use. I am using Ubuntu 10.04 Beta 1 and this is by far, more stable and secure t= han Windows. Even Alpha 2 was more stable than Windows. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: IDWMaster (webadm) Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 01:44:21 -0000 Message-Id: <20100409014421.9043.43770.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> I think that the Ubuntu Netbook developers should focus on driver interoperability. I have Ubuntu Netbook Remix on my netbook, and am still the generic, slow, display driver and am unable to adjust my display's brightness. Most of the graphics processing is diverted to the main CPU, resulting in frequent lockups and battery drainage. I'm using an Acer AspireOne netbook. Ubuntu works perfectly on my desktop though! Very few problems, and boots in less than 5 seconds (compared to 1 minute and 15 seconds on my netbook)! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: bert07 (marien.bert) Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 01:44:28 -0000 Message-Id: <4BBE867C.5010201@telenet.be> "Even Alpha 2 was more stable than Windows." I do not agree. But it might depend on the hardware you have. On 09/04/2010 03:28, xbox360 20g wrote: --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: IDWMaster (webadm) Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 01:55:21 -0000 Message-Id: <20100409015521.7825.80281.malone@wampee.canonical.com> It's mainly a hardware problem, and the fact that Acer partners with Micro$oft. On my desktop, Windows never ran well, but Ubuntu works perfectly, and I built my desktop computer myself; so I didn't have to worry about Micro$oft getting in the way of hardware compatibility. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: cmcginty (casey-mcginty) Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 02:22:33 -0000 Message-Id: Sadly, it is 2010 and I Linux still freaks out when you loose your network connection. On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 3:55 PM, IDWMaster wrote: > It's mainly a hardware problem, and the fact that Acer partners with > Micro$oft. On my desktop, Windows never ran well, but Ubuntu works > perfectly, and I built my desktop computer myself; so I didn't have to > worry about Micro$oft getting in the way of hardware compatibility. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Montel Edwards (montel) Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 02:35:35 -0000 Message-Id: <1270780535.9705.1.camel@laptop-m> What do you mean by "freaks out"? On Fri, 2010-04-09 at 02:22 +0000, cmcginty wrote: > Sadly, it is 2010 and I Linux still freaks out when you loose your network > connection. >=20 > On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 3:55 PM, IDWMaster > wrote: >=20 > > It's mainly a hardware problem, and the fact that Acer partners with > > Micro$oft. On my desktop, Windows never ran well, but Ubuntu works > > perfectly, and I built my desktop computer myself; so I didn't have to > > worry about Micro$oft getting in the way of hardware compatibility. > > > > -- > > Microsoft has a majority market share > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > > of the bug. > > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: cmcginty (casey-mcginty) Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 03:38:33 -0000 Message-Id: For example, 'df' will hang if an NFS share is mounted, but unreachable. On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Montel Edwards wrote: > What do you mean by "freaks out"? > On Fri, 2010-04-09 at 02:22 +0000, cmcginty wrote: > > Sadly, it is 2010 and I Linux still freaks out when you loose your > network > > connection. > > > > On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 3:55 PM, IDWMaster > > wrote: > > > > > It's mainly a hardware problem, and the fact that Acer partners with > > > Micro$oft. On my desktop, Windows never ran well, but Ubuntu works > > > perfectly, and I built my desktop computer myself; so I didn't have to > > > worry about Micro$oft getting in the way of hardware compatibility. > > > > > > -- > > > Microsoft has a majority market share > > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > > > of the bug. > > > > > > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 13:04:14 -0000 Message-Id: It is supposed to do that. What other behaviour do you want df have when i = drive is slow? This is a NFS problem not a df problem. Try OpenAFS if you want something t= hat works when there is network problems. > Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 03:38:33 +0000 > From: casey.mcginty@gmail.com > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > For example, 'df' will hang if an NFS share is mounted, but unreachable. >=20 > On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Montel Edwards wrote: >=20 > > What do you mean by "freaks out"? > > On Fri, 2010-04-09 at 02:22 +0000, cmcginty wrote: > > > Sadly, it is 2010 and I Linux still freaks out when you loose your > > network > > > connection. > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 3:55 PM, IDWMaster > > > wrote: > > > > > > > It's mainly a hardware problem, and the fact that Acer partners with > > > > Micro$oft. On my desktop, Windows never ran well, but Ubuntu works > > > > perfectly, and I built my desktop computer myself; so I didn't have= to > > > > worry about Micro$oft getting in the way of hardware compatibility. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Microsoft has a majority market share > > > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > > > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscri= ber > > > > of the bug. > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Microsoft has a majority market share > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > > of the bug. > > >=20 > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. >=20 > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Ubuntu: Incomplete > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In P= rogress > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: New > Status in Tilix Linux: New >=20 > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >=20 > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the= ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. Th= is bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >=20 > Steps to repeat: >=20 > 1. Visit a local PC store. >=20 > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-ins= talled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >=20 > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >=20 >=20 >=20 > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe =20 _________________________________________________________________ Messenger i mobilen! http://new.windowslivemobile.msn.com/SE-SE/windows-live-messenger-wap/defau= lt.aspx --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Friedrich Strohmaier (bitsfritz) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 15:31:35 -0000 Message-Id: <201004101731.44742.ubuntu_bugs@bits-fritz.de> Hi Allen, @ll, Allen Graham schrieb: >Hello Freidrich ! First, all operating systems have bugs. >Probably Ubuntu is one of the best versions of Linux, but it is not, >and never will be, completely free of bugs. I know - I'm using Linux doing all my PC tasks since summer 2001.. [.. bad examples - nothing to be followed ..] >IF, we all donated $50, or E50 etc, we could launch an ad campaign. >So, it's about money. I disagree.. >Base Linux O/S's are free. You can pay for support, customising etc. I'm one paid for support - don't talk about effort/ernings relation.. :o)) >So, your problem with one bug should be addressed in "Launchpad". I did so on several places - last one is here, which *is* Launchpad. :o)) >Tell me, is there something similar in Microsoft or Apple ? Thanks for the sermon :o)). I sadly notice I cannot detect how it relates to my comment. Aparently I'm not able to present my message well enough. I end up here after - I setup Bug #512622 - no response - I asked for feedback in german ubuntu-de@lists.ubuntu.com whether something's wrong with my description.=20 - Got feedback: might be misleading - I dig more and found many bugdescriptions - less missleading - I found Bug #255008 - more clear - with a bunch of dupes and added mine to the dupes list giving a comment with my search results and guesses - no response. - last message was the bug to be closed "won't fix", because beeing filed against jaunty which reaches end of live. As mentioned I estimate a properly working keyboard as a very basic feature of *any* OS. If You don't believe - pull your keyboard's plug and look how fare You go. Plug in again (don't do so with ps/2 plugged keyboard while the machine is running!!) and imagine it doesn't what You expect it to do.. How would You control your machine? In my eyes the above is an absolute nogo for a LTS release! I don't repeat the whole story, but You can easily see what I talk of: On a machine running ubuntu 9.04 or any later, install and start xkeycaps, choose your keyboard-type and for example hit the *right * key. It tells the system: "here is ** key what should I do for you?" =20 As xkeycaps lets watch You the keyboard with the eyes of xmodmap You might say: "so kick xmodmap!" Exactly that was one of my proposals even if the worst choice.=20 What has to happen is to make a decision how to proceed with that. And I expect it to do in a way that shows up "we control things!" and not that way I notice: "This bug is fixed, when the reporter has died" ;o)) Here once more the link to my proposal how to proceed that issue: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/255008/comments/= 129 >On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 8:33 AM, Friedrich Strohmaier < > >ubuntu_bugs@bits-fritz.de> wrote: >> Fixing this bug needs fixing of other severe bugs! >> >> One of them: >> Bug #255008 is marked as "won't fix". There are a lot of duplicates >> and it is reported to affect lucid lynx as well (even if filed >> against intrepid ibex). >> >> Shure every one's bug is the most important (I'm no exception :o))), >> but this one affects basic keyboardmapping in X-environment. The >> keyboard up to now is the main interface to do things on a computer. >> Not properly working keyboard means not properly working ubuntu! >> >> I repeat in this place: >> Everyone with a xmodmap customized keyboard mapping doing a LTS >> upgrade will run in unusable keyboard! >> >> here my resume (which took me 2 days of searching): >> >>=20 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/255008/comments/= 129 >> >> If I did severe mistakes bringing this up - please point me out how >> to do better! :o)) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: cmcginty (casey-mcginty) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 01:20:55 -0000 Message-Id: So it's not broken, but a feature. Got it. I think i'll buy some more MSFT now. On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 3:04 AM, Faldegast wrote: > > It is supposed to do that. What other behaviour do you want df have when i > drive is slow? > This is a NFS problem not a df problem. Try OpenAFS if you want something > that works when there is network problems. > > > Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 03:38:33 +0000 > > From: casey.mcginty@gmail.com > > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > > Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share > > > > For example, 'df' will hang if an NFS share is mounted, but unreachable. > > > > On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Montel Edwards wrote: > > > > > What do you mean by "freaks out"? > > > On Fri, 2010-04-09 at 02:22 +0000, cmcginty wrote: > > > > Sadly, it is 2010 and I Linux still freaks out when you loose your > > > network > > > > connection. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 3:55 PM, IDWMaster > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > It's mainly a hardware problem, and the fact that Acer partners > with > > > > > Micro$oft. On my desktop, Windows never ran well, but Ubuntu works > > > > > perfectly, and I built my desktop computer myself; so I didn't ha= ve > to > > > > > worry about Micro$oft getting in the way of hardware compatibilit= y. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Microsoft has a majority market share > > > > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > > > > You received this bug notification because you are a direct > subscriber > > > > > of the bug. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Microsoft has a majority market share > > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > > > of the bug. > > > > > > > -- > > Microsoft has a majority market share > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > > of the bug. > > > > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > > Status in Ubuntu: Incomplete > > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: In Progress > > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In= Progress > > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: Confirmed > > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > > Status in openSUSE: New > > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > > > Bug description: > > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > > > Steps to repeat: > > > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > > > What happens: > > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > > > What should happen: > > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > _________________________________________________________________ > Messenger i mobilen! > > http://new.windowslivemobile.msn.com/SE-SE/windows-live-messenger-wap/def= ault.aspx > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 09:32:27 -0000 Message-Id: <20100411093227.1180.42955.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Hi :) http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam I think the best time to get your bug-reports noticed is during beta testin= g for an LTS so try a LiveCd https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCD or add 1 partition to your dual/multi-boot & see if your existing bugs are = still a problem. If they are then add Lucid 10.04 to releases affected at t= he top. See how many machines you can try the LiveCd on & see if friends or= colleagues are interested in trying a pre-release sneak preview ;) (they p= rolly would for a movie?) I think the biggest problem for linux is that mostly when you first want to try it you have to do some of the trickiest, most complex stuff just to install it. After a successful install you don't need to use any of that expertise. So people need to be expert before they can just demo it!! Luckily the LiveCds step in but many users are scared of messing with the bios ... By comparison Windows is installed by teams of experts on batches of identical machines in the only arrangement that Windows can handle, 1 partition on 1 drive. They have to do endless amounts of tweaks, and reboots and updates and reboots and upgrades and reboots and updates again and reboots. Even then there is a failure rate with machines being ditched or sent back to the start or off-loaded. All this on machines that have manufacturers providing drivers & full support. None of this gets seen by wide-eyed-end-users. I know someone that runs a computer recycling place where they take machines that are no longer top-end and sometimes sort the hardware a little. They find that ON AVERAGE its about 60hours to get a machine fully working under Windows. The weeu then say they prefer Windows because it "just works" "out of the box" My machine flies along with linux, i would hate it to only "just work" Good luck and regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 12:11:35 -0000 Message-Id: Microsofts networks shares does what NFS does in this case, so that will no= t solve your problem. OpenAFS is what you have to run there to if you don't= want it dependent on network problems. > Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 01:20:55 +0000 > From: casey.mcginty@gmail.com > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > So it's not broken, but a feature. Got it. I think i'll buy some more MSFT > now. >=20 > On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 3:04 AM, Faldegast > wrote: >=20 > > > > It is supposed to do that. What other behaviour do you want df have whe= n i > > drive is slow? > > This is a NFS problem not a df problem. Try OpenAFS if you want somethi= ng > > that works when there is network problems. > > > > > Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 03:38:33 +0000 > > > From: casey.mcginty@gmail.com > > > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > > > Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share > > > > > > For example, 'df' will hang if an NFS share is mounted, but unreachab= le. > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Montel Edwards wro= te: > > > > > > > What do you mean by "freaks out"? > > > > On Fri, 2010-04-09 at 02:22 +0000, cmcginty wrote: > > > > > Sadly, it is 2010 and I Linux still freaks out when you loose your > > > > network > > > > > connection. > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 3:55 PM, IDWMaster > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > It's mainly a hardware problem, and the fact that Acer partners > > with > > > > > > Micro$oft. On my desktop, Windows never ran well, but Ubuntu wo= rks > > > > > > perfectly, and I built my desktop computer myself; so I didn't = have > > to > > > > > > worry about Micro$oft getting in the way of hardware compatibil= ity. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Microsoft has a majority market share > > > > > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > > > > > You received this bug notification because you are a direct > > subscriber > > > > > > of the bug. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Microsoft has a majority market share > > > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > > > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscri= ber > > > > of the bug. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Microsoft has a majority market share > > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > > > of the bug. > > > > > > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > > > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > > > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > > > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > > > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > > > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > > > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > > > Status in Ubuntu: Incomplete > > > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > > > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: In Progress > > > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: = In Progress > > > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > > > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: Confirmed > > > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > > > Status in openSUSE: New > > > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > > > > > Bug description: > > > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketpla= ce. > > > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > > > > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potenti= al, > > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > > > > > Steps to repeat: > > > > > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > > > > > What happens: > > > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > > pre-installed. > > > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > > > > > What should happen: > > > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software l= ike > > Ubuntu. > > > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features = and > > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > > > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Messenger i mobilen! > > > > http://new.windowslivemobile.msn.com/SE-SE/windows-live-messenger-wap/d= efault.aspx > > > > -- > > Microsoft has a majority market share > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > > of the bug. > > >=20 > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. >=20 > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Ubuntu: Incomplete > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In P= rogress > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: New > Status in Tilix Linux: New >=20 > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >=20 > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the= ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. Th= is bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >=20 > Steps to repeat: >=20 > 1. Visit a local PC store. >=20 > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-ins= talled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >=20 > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >=20 >=20 >=20 > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe =20 _________________________________________________________________ Messenger i mobilen! http://new.windowslivemobile.msn.com/SE-SE/windows-live-messenger-wap/defau= lt.aspx --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: IDWMaster (webadm) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 23:51:29 -0000 Message-Id: <20100412235129.7825.43746.malone@wampee.canonical.com> I fixed the problem with my Netbook. I downloaded a different version of Linux called Jolicloud; which is a new netbook OS based on Ubuntu and comes with the necessary (proprietary) drivers to use all of the functions on my netbook. It's really just another remix of Ubuntu published by a different organization (http://www.jolicloud.com/). --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Bilal Akhtar (bilalakhtar) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 07:06:33 -0000 Message-Id: <20100415070633.23545.25573.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Hi people, I am an Ubuntu user from Saudi Arabia, a country where Micro$oft is enjoyin= g its monopoly like hell. 97 % Windows, 2.70 % Mac and 0.10 % linux, with i= Phones and other devices dominating the remaining. People here are like bra= inwashed, and believe in Micro$oft as if its the god of software. There are= a few macs here (which came in recently) but the people here regard macs a= s being "less matured". I use Ubuntu on my computers, and I prefer Mac OSX = over Windows, and Ubuntu over Mac OSX. People here don't believe me when I = tell them about Ubuntu, they say that "there won't be an operating system l= ike that. Only 2 OSs are there, Windows and macosx." The Ubuntu Saudi Arabi= a LoCo team is like dead rocks, I am a member of it, and the team has made = no progress since the last 3 years to become approved.=20 I just visited a popular computer store here, and asked if they sell notebooks with linux preinstalled. They said "No, we don't support Linux. Linux damages the computer and voids the warranty. There is no GUI in Linux. Also no programs will work on it." I told them " You are living in 1995. Nowadays linux is no more CLI, but a GUI that is far better than Windoze's ****ing GUI. Windows offers very little desktop effects for the price of a HUGE system resource consumption and a price of 600 riyals (saudi currency). Ubuntu is free, and gives you everything you need, internet with social network integration on the desktop itself, desktop effects, games, openoffice, cool developing APIs, faster boot time, etc" The reply I got was " It can't be possible. Only Windows provides internet and office applications." Good examples of the ignorance of people in saudi arabia to new software !!! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Henry H (henry-harte) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 08:42:00 -0000 Message-Id: <1803468191.20100415184200@harte.net.au> Hello Bilal, Thursday, April 15, 2010, 5:06:33 PM, you wrote: > Hi people, > I am an Ubuntu user from Saudi Arabia, a country where Micro$oft is > enjoying its monopoly like hell. 97 % Windows, 2.70 % Mac and 0.10 % > linux, with iPhones and other devices dominating the remaining. > People here are like brainwashed, and believe in Micro$oft as if its > the god of software. In countries with a Christian background we have an expression (or two) for what you are doing. We refer to it as 'preaching to the converted' or 'preaching to the choir'. I am sure that there would be an equivalent phrase in use in Muslim based countries. While I am proceeding on the 'belief' pathway (I am trying to tread carefully but please forgive me if I tread on ant toes), It is interesting for the non-believers perspective (That windoze is the most/only . . . . .) to see the behavior of those who clink to their belief in the face of contrary evidence (GUI, software, bling etc...). Keep up the proselytizing --=20 Best regards, Henry mailto:henry@harte.net.au --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 10:03:54 -0000 Message-Id: On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 09:06, Bilal Akhtar wrote: > I just visited a popular computer store here, and asked if they sell > notebooks with linux preinstalled. They said "No, we don't support > Linux. Linux damages the computer and voids the warranty. I also got told this in a shop that Linux will harm the PC. Basically it resulted in the fact that I was buying somewhere else. Bad for the sales of the shop but I don't care of them when they don't care about me. > There is no > GUI in Linux. Also no programs will work on it." I told them " You are > living in 1995. Nowadays linux is no more CLI, but a GUI that is far > better than Windoze's ****ing GUI. [...] The best way of having somebody believe you is: Show them. Or better: Pass them a CD. When I am at friends I just bring them a copy and tell them that they can run it from the CD without installing anything. - Sure it takes a long while to startup from the CD (you should tell them that from HD it will boot within a minute). Another good way: When I go to customers or have friends invited they can see it running on my laptop. Best way is to be a living example. If you have friends staying with you for a few days just create an account for them on your PC. I do not invest much time in "preaching" any more. I am the living example and I don't give support any more for Windows for friends. If they have a problem I tell them and leave them alone with their crap - done. They will come back - maybe in a few years but who cares - the slower and continuous success outweighs the quick and great success in the long run. I am not in a hurry - currently without supporting Windows on friends machines I have a lot more time for other things (and yes, also a few less friends - those that kept me only because of their support issues ;-) ). --=20 Martin Wildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 11:06:58 -0000 Message-Id: <20100415110658.32170.96322.malone@soybean.canonical.com> Hi :) How to run from an Ubuntu Cd https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCD Does the shop have an old machine they would let you give them a demonstration on? Ask them what the cd/dvd-drives read/write speed is compared to the hard-drives read/writes, preferably while the LiveCd is booting up. When they quote figures say something like "Ahh, so doing stuff from Cd takes 100(?) times as long?" Because the office apps are included on the LiveCd and it picks up networked internet connections usually very easily it can be very impressive. Just boot up with the Cd in the drive, click on FireFox, open an email that has a ".doc" attachment and open the "Word" attachment. If the network & internet is instantly picked up then use the "Places" menu to find something on the hard-drive and open that instead. Avoid getting caught-up in setting things up. Then reboot back into their shop-display Windows so they can see no harm was done & no trace left of your history. "Preaching to the converted" can be a relief. Just finding like-minded people is a relief when you feel so isolated from everyone around you and it is what many of us in here did in our first posts. Even if that was sooo long ago for some people that they have forgotten. I am not sure but in my country people are easily impressed by the fire writing effect so i spent ages learning to write my name fast with the mouse & sometimes spend a while preparing for a particular demonstration by practicing writing their (or thier company's) name. this 'backfired' one time when showing a VJ who was more impressed with my handwriting than the special effect! Apparently most people find calligraphy impossible with the mouse. I still support some Windows users particularly if the answer is going to be easier using a LiveCd. I have often been tempted to install a tiny linux such as Wolvix at the end of a persons hard-drive and then hide the boot menu, just to make sure i have familiar tools there ready. Clamtk is so much faster than Windows anti-virus scans. When it seems like everyone around you is set against you just remember Ghandi's quote "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." So which stage are you at in a given negotiation and which step follows next? Also a lot of times when people are leaving Windows behind we see them go t= hrough the 5 stages of grieving Denial Anger Negotiate, bargaining Depression Acceptance Although this starts the same as Ghandi's quote the order is a little diffe= rent. When i started with linux i couldn't believe it was so easy and got angry about all the ridiculous things (defrags, virus scans) that i had been forced to do before even being able to think about starting solving a problem. I tried getting other people to use linux but they all thought that Windows must be the best because everyone uses Windows (read "The Emperor's New Clothes") which often got me quite angry. Then i figured that it was ok because at least 1 person doesn't have to bother with all the Windows slow-downs and problems and that's me. Anger is not a good way to win respect so i figured that i should stop bothering to try converting people unless they showed some interest beyond just griping about Windows. Then i got hooked on some games & stopped bothering to listen to people because it's depressing how often people will moan & complain but take no action to solve their complaint. Now i just feel smug when someone tells me their Windows woes. I can sit back and chuckle about all those years with Windows and still the same types of problems with it. Blimey, sorry about this! I just wanted to write a quick short post saying = "Show off the LiveCd"!! Good luck and regards to all from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 11:22:34 -0000 Message-Id: <1271330554.14624.25.camel@JnS-002-C2D> > The best way of having somebody believe you is: Show them. Or better: Pas= s them a CD. When I am at friends I just bring them a copy and tell them th= at they can run it from the CD without installing anything. - Sure it takes= a long while to startup from the CD (you should tell them that from HD it = will boot within a minute). >=20 > Another good way: When I go to customers or have friends invited they can= see it running on my laptop. Best way is to be a living example. If you ha= ve friends staying with you for a few days just create an account for them = on your PC. >=20 > I do not invest much time in "preaching" any more. I am the living exampl= e and I don't give support any more for Windows for friends. If they have a= problem I tell them and leave them alone with their crap - done. They will= come back - maybe in a few years but who cares - the slower and continuous= success outweighs the quick and great success in the long run. I am not in= a hurry - currently without supporting Windows on friends machines I have = a lot more time for other things (and yes, also a few less friends - those = that kept me only because of their support issues ;-) ). This is a very good idea and it's been here before; I even got myself inspired. I think we should all (as in all Free software proponents) embrace this strategy since "preaching" (especially in it's aggressive forms) doesn't really get us anywhere - generally speaking, most people aren't very cooperative if it feels like you're trying to force something upon them (you know, I think the worst thing that could happen to us is if we got the perception of these guys because that's when everyone's just gonna slam the door shut and pretend he's not home...). --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 11:58:27 -0000 Message-Id: <1271332707.14624.53.camel@JnS-002-C2D> Sorry for another post, but I completely forgot about the good news I've got (you better brace yourself because it's quite big and it's probably gonna make your whole day): the biggest and most popular computer store in the whole district is now running Ubuntu with all the Firefox and Compiz Fusion goodness on the machines where customers can browse their e-shop and print invoices, so everyone who wishes to speed things up by avoiding waiting in line for the dealers to do the same thing for him can now see Ubuntu in action. I only wished they started showcasing some DELL notebooks running Ubuntu, because these "self-service terminals" are more like single purpose computer kiosks dedicated for the aforementioned tasks rather than full blown free desktop systems. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:06:16 -0000 Message-Id: On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 13:22, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB wrote: > generally speaking, most people > aren't very cooperative if it feels like you're trying to force > something upon them Indeed. BTW: In some psychology related talk I heard a good while ago: You can only pick up people frome where they are. - As long as someone is perfectly happy with Windows (or is just not aware of his unnecessary suffering) you are somewhat lost. And: If I talked somebody into using Linux and then a single problem arises (even if possibly easily fixed) it's my fault (at least from the othr's point of view). Let's face the facts: There are some things that can't be achieved with the same efficiency yet on the Linux desktop. But on the other hand a lot of things can be achieved better and more efficient on Linux. If one is suffering from the problems on Windows he/she will accept a few flaws in Linux much easier - and fact is that there are some - nothing is perfect. And finally: I learned that there are people you can never understand. There are people buying a complete new machine after system crashed and they can't find their Windows-CD any more and others getting a new machine because the old one got too slow (thinking it is the hardware that got slower as getting older - just like an old man can't run like a younger any more) - although maybe a defrag and deleting some temp-files/history would have been sufficient (as Windows doesn't delete most of them automatically). Yes, true stories. --=20 Martin Wildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 13:03:49 -0000 Message-Id: <1271336629.15392.17.camel@JnS-002-C2D> One more thing - has anyone here ever stumbled upon this article? Some of the facts stated there are not so burning issues any more but a good deal of them still holds true; definitely makes for an interesting reading though. Maybe it's a good idea to warn people potentially interested in turning over about some of the problems along these lines before they actually run into them which may help avoiding quite a few disenchanted guys. I'm pretty sure some of the whining would probably never take place it they were fully aware of what they're getting into. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Pako (elektrobank01) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 15:51:39 -0000 Message-Id: <20100415155139.18215.88403.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Time will pass and more and more OEMs will ship Linux as main OS, and that's a fact. Linux on Desktop? IMO Desktop OS should give people oportunity to do their profesional stuffs like 3D, Audio Mixing, Video Editing etc. not only internet and basic programs. I think Ubuntu is competing with a wrong competitor that is already beaten in terms of speed, security and stability. The main competitors should be the companies who play the huge role in Graphic, Audio and Video environments. Internet only Users? They don't care about their OS. By the way "Avatar" is rendered on Ubuntu, that's the real power that Linux can bring to desktop, but how many people knows it? I think that Ubuntu Studio is on the right way. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 16:10:00 -0000 Message-Id: <1271347800.16184.4.camel@JnS-002-C2D> Damned, sorry everyone. I certainly don't mean to clutter this discussion with incomplete posts, but the link to the article was lost during the conversion from HTML to plain text, so here goes: http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm Have a nice day, guys. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 16:15:02 -0000 Message-Id: Good point Pako ! If you have tried Vista, you understand ! If you try "Win 7", good luck. In future we will be paying for some specialised programming, and businesses can live with that. Ubuntu is spreading only because "it works". Me? using Ubuntu for 5 years (or 6?) On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Pako wrote: > Time will pass and more and more OEMs will ship Linux as main OS, and > that's a fact. Linux on Desktop? IMO Desktop OS should give people > oportunity to do their profesional stuffs like 3D, Audio Mixing, Video > Editing etc. not only internet and basic programs. I think Ubuntu is > competing with a wrong competitor that is already beaten in terms of > speed, security and stability. The main competitors should be the > companies who play the huge role in Graphic, Audio and Video > environments. Internet only Users? They don't care about their OS. By > the way "Avatar" is rendered on Ubuntu, that's the real power that Linux > can bring to desktop, but how many people knows it? I think that Ubuntu > Studio is on the right way. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Ubuntu: Incomplete > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In P= rogress > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: New > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: draoi99 (draoi99) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 16:32:47 -0000 Message-Id: <4BC73FAF.5070408@yahoo.co.uk> John, What store is this and where is it? Sounds fantastic that they are=20 showing consumers the Third and Option. On 15/04/10 12:58, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB wrote: > Sorry for another post, but I completely forgot about the good news I've > got (you better brace yourself because it's quite big and it's probably > gonna make your whole day): the biggest and most popular computer store > in the whole district is now running Ubuntu with all the Firefox and > Compiz Fusion goodness on the machines where customers can browse their > e-shop and print invoices, so everyone who wishes to speed things up by > avoiding waiting in line for the dealers to do the same thing for him > can now see Ubuntu in action. I only wished they started showcasing some > DELL notebooks running Ubuntu, because these "self-service terminals" > are more like single purpose computer kiosks dedicated for the > aforementioned tasks rather than full blown free desktop systems. > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 13:48:16 -0000 Message-Id: <1271425696.21992.57.camel@JnS-002-C2D> > John, > What store is this and where is it? Sounds fantastic that they are showin= g consumers the Third and Option. It's Czech Computer, s.r.o. (similar to ", LLC") and as the name suggests, they're based in .CZ (and they seem to also deal in .SK). It's not like they're actively supporting anything other than Winblow$, but at least there's some improvement over every single machine showing that stupid piece of crap on screen (including Internet Exploiter). I've got another idea of how to tip the balance just a little bit more: anyone interested in helping to spread GNU/Linux should consider learning to use BitTorrent downloads if possible. There are multiple points to this: * primary servers usually get hammered by anxious updaters and mirrors take quite a while to get in sync with them, so there's like snowball's chance in hell to get your hands on freshly released distro the usual way (HTTP and/or FTP), but the exact opposite goes for BitTorrent, where the availability inherently increases (the more people are downloading the same thing, the better for all of them) * there's no need to verify downloaded images because the integral part of how BitTorrent works is mandatory data integrity check of every downloaded piece so once the download completes, data integrity is guaranteed, so you don't risk canning valuable time or media * you're saving connection slots and bandwidth for those who don't know any other way of downloading stuff than firing up their browser and hitting a download button somewhere on the web page * you're adding more weight to the point that one of the major use cases for BitTorrent is spreading Free software, not computer piracy, so any attempts to ban it mostly cripples just a bunch of completely honest users The only catch is to seed at least until your ratio reaches 1, which is probably not a problem for anyone who takes his efforts to spread Free software seriously. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 14:20:42 -0000 Message-Id: <286195.13336.qm@web24106.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) If the store has a website then perhaps you could list it here. I am sure a few people would be interested in supporting it even if it's only by a few page hits BitTorrent is excellent and the default package in Ubuntu is pretty good. I have seen others that give more detail about multiple download/seeding. Just download the ".torrent" & drag&drop it onto an open "Transmission" (or whichever) and let it do its thing. I thought it was only polite to let it seed out to other people at least 3 times but i tend to focus on new releases or cult status items such as Wolvix Regards all from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 15:57:44 -0000 Message-Id: <1271433464.22576.26.camel@JnS-002-C2D> > Hi :) >=20 > If the store has a website then perhaps you could list it here. I am sure= a few people would be interested in supporting it even if it's only by a f= ew page hits Their website is located on https://www.czechcomputer.cz, but I don't know much about their I18N efforts. Despite all their alleged M$ ties (at least that's what I've been told by one of my friends who used to be an insider) you can find quite a few clean/FreeDOS/GNU machines among their offerings and you can also have them assemble custom machine from ordered parts for an additional fee - there's a check for that right in the order form and you can also instruct them how to place individual components and/or partition the hard drive (I'm not sure it's of any good since anyone capable of issuing such instructions would probably prefer to do that stuff himself, but it certainly doesn't cause any harm). --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: IDWMaster (webadm) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 19:52:10 -0000 Message-Id: <20100416195210.18083.83964.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Today; one of my friends (who had a Windows laptop) complained that his laptop was getting the BSOD after he defragmented his hard drive. I asked him what version of Windows he had, and it was Windows XP. I asked him if he formatted his hard drive, and he replied "I think so". Then; I showed him my laptop which had Ubuntu 10.04 on it. I showed him how fast the office programs started, opened a docx file and he was impressed. I told him that Ubuntu is really simple to install, and that it can also be used to re-partition his drive (in case his MBR was wrecked by Windows). I also explained that Ubuntu is compatible with almost all MP3 players (except Micro$oft's Zune), and that using a flash drive is as simple as plugging it in, and that he would not have to wait for any drivers to install (since they are already loaded in kernel memory). I'm burning an Ubuntu 10.04 install disc right now. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 01:22:28 -0000 Message-Id: <925508.90618.qm@web24102.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) I think it is well worth trying a LiveCd session before installing to any m= achine, just to make sure you know what (if any) boot options you might nee= d to add https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCD Check the "Places" menu to see if he does have the Windows partition. Other= wise he might want to try some data recovery https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DataRecovery and a dual-boot install, even with a crippled Windows is usually better bec= ause you can soon pick-up skills that can help fix or recover the Windows s= ide, even if you can't at the moment. It gives the user something to aim for https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsDualBoot Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: IDWMaster (webadm) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 02:43:41 -0000 Message-Id: <20100417024341.32126.25742.malone@soybean.canonical.com> Thanks! Had no idea these recovery tools existed! Sounds really easy to recover a corrupt filesystem; especially since it doesn't appear to be a hardware fault (although it could be defective RAM too; so I'll have him run memtest86+). --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 03:13:14 -0000 Message-Id: <20100417031314.32170.14557.malone@soybean.canonical.com> You are welcome :)) I particularly enjoy fixing Windows problems when it's fast & easy to use linux to do the job. So that includes virus scans, any large file transfers (or lots small files), replacing critical dll files accidentally taken out by an over-zealous Windows anti-virus, sorting partitions, data-recovery from a sick Windows partition to another drive .... Even more fun when the Windows user later claims they stick with Windows because "it's easier". Ooo the irony!! Just remember "No good deed goes unpunished" so enjoy learning from the tasks as you do them. Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Joel Bryan Juliano (joelbryan) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 07:46:32 -0000 Message-Id: <20100417074632.32170.60409.malone@soybean.canonical.com> Building something out of spiteful resentment at seeing the success of another is bad. Please reconsider the motivation of this bug, should it be closed or marked as invalid? If you really want to solve this bug, I have attached a patch named 'Colt_Pistol+Bullets.patch', to apply it, do cd "$seattle/microsoft_office/steve_ballmer_office" && patch -p1 < Colt_Pistol+Bullets.patch --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Joel Bryan Juliano (joelbryan) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 07:51:52 -0000 Message-Id: <20100417075152.18215.93044.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Building something out of spiteful resentment at seeing the success of another is bad. Please reconsider the motivation of this bug, should it be closed or marked as invalid? If you really want to solve this bug, I have attached a patch named 'Colt_Pistol+Bullets.patch', to apply it, do cd "$seattle/microsoft_office/steve_ballmer_office" && patch -p1 < Colt_Pistol+Bullets.patch be sure to do 'make clean' after applying this patch, since there _will_ be regressions and kernel panic, also you might want to use 'pushd' and 'popd'. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 11:11:41 -0000 Message-Id: <1271502701.3329.58.camel@JnS-002-K7> > Building something out of spiteful resentment at seeing the success of another is bad. I've heard this shit before and everyone who believes this is completely missing the point. As a matter of fact, M$ was successful only because they were lucky and what I hate about them is not their success, but the way they keep themselves on top - I'm pretty sure everyone with as much as a single trace of sense of fair play will come up with the exact same conclusion if he does some digging and reads about all the bribery and extortion this fscked up corporation never hesitates to use if it's in their best interest. For example, let's take a closer look at their licensing policy - if you wanna get your hands on a bunch of cheap OEM kits, you gotta either bundle Winblow$ with the whole model line or you're simply outta luck. Of course it's also hardware vendors' fault that they agree to this in order to save some quick buck, but that doesn't change the fact that it's M$ who does this on purpose to artificially slow down the adoption of all competing software, restricting end consumers' choice in the process (which is something they don't give a fsck about). In the end the whole thing results in "chicken and egg problem" with both hardware and software support for every system other than Winblow$. Another clear example was the process of "standardizing" OOXML - isn't it funny that a lot of committee members who eventually reconsidered come from developing countries and changed their minds after receiving generous donations from M$ or something like that? Isn't it funny that M$ is always there to "help" everyone who's seriously considering to move away from Winblow$ like India or China? Am I the only one seeing a causal link here? Hardly. How about bribing Russia not to go ahead with oficially daclaring them as a monopoly? Does that ring any bells? The point is, that all this completely brings down fundamental principles of competitive market, so M$ can feel free to do whatever they want without suffering any consequences. So go ahead and protect the corrupt tyrant from the wrath they so richly deserve! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 11:47:53 -0000 Message-Id: <289434.30980.qm@web24106.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Ghandi said "An eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind" MicroSquish often gets taken to court for things like anti-competitive trading practices. Even where it doesn't lose it is usually pretty clearly "sailing close to the wind" and there are hints of it engaging in dubious practices. Mostly MicroSquish just loses cases. I read somewhere that MicroSquish have been taken to court & lost more cases than certain organised crime syndicates. That doesn't mean we have to engage in dubious practices ourselves & reading through this entire thread i think there's only 1 suggestion for behaving badly and that was fairly clearly a joke to make a point. As teh excellent even tho slightly dated link http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm states, we don't need market share.=20 Getting a larger, fairer share would be nice & would be of some benefit but it's not something we NEED. MicroSquish does need it and is acting as though they are backed into a corner just because they are not 100% dominant on desktops & can't break into server markets effectively. So, i think a lot of us are feeling pity towards MicroSquish people and trying to give them good escape routes. There are a lot of good & talented people still locked into the Windows mind-set. Try reading "The Emporer's new Clothes". We can help hand-hold people & gently lead them into linux-land. Regards to all for helping make this possible! Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Joel Bryan Juliano (joelbryan) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 14:07:12 -0000 Message-Id: I totally agree with you... 3 years ago I was assigned with a project to create a Linux distribution to be used as a migration effort by the university I was studying to move to open source, promote open source and to teach open source languages like PHP, Python and Ruby to students. The plan as it is written on my contract is for the distribution to be deployed to over 200+ campuses across the country, also in the contract says they will be funding TV advertisement to promote open source to students so that the university will be a household name for a school that teaches open source. When Microsoft found out about the open source initiative this major school is planning, they soon set a meeting with the head officials and instantly the open source deal was off... The working product is already enjoying the deployment, but everything has changed. I don't know what happened in the meeting, but after just a week, new computers have been coming with Microsoft OS, Office, and Visual Studio pre-installed... All the old computers have been installed with Linux is reformatted to Xp. I was real close on getting a shot of changing the course of local tech eduction, but then Microsoft ruined everything... All the hardwork and countless hours I spend on the Linux project gone down the drain, thanks to Microsoft. On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 7:11 PM, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB wrote: >> Building something out of spiteful resentment at seeing the success of > another is bad. > > I've heard this shit before and everyone who believes this is completely > missing the point. As a matter of fact, M$ was successful only because > they were lucky and what I hate about them is not their success, but the > way they keep themselves on top - I'm pretty sure everyone with as much > as a single trace of sense of fair play will come up with the exact same > conclusion if he does some digging and reads about all the bribery and > extortion this fscked up corporation never hesitates to use if it's in > their best interest. For example, let's take a closer look at their > licensing policy - if you wanna get your hands on a bunch of cheap OEM > kits, you gotta either bundle Winblow$ with the whole model line or > you're simply outta luck. Of course it's also hardware vendors' fault > that they agree to this in order to save some quick buck, but that > doesn't change the fact that it's M$ who does this on purpose to > artificially slow down the adoption of all competing software, > restricting end consumers' choice in the process (which is something > they don't give a fsck about). In the end the whole thing results in > "chicken and egg problem" with both hardware and software support for > every system other than Winblow$. Another clear example was the process > of "standardizing" OOXML - isn't it funny that a lot of committee > members who eventually reconsidered come from developing countries and > changed their minds after receiving generous donations from M$ or > something like that? Isn't it funny that M$ is always there to "help" > everyone who's seriously considering to move away from Winblow$ like > India or China? Am I the only one seeing a causal link here? Hardly. How > about bribing Russia not to go ahead with oficially daclaring them as a > monopoly? Does that ring any bells? The point is, that all this > completely brings down fundamental principles of competitive market, so > M$ can feel free to do whatever they want without suffering any > consequences. So go ahead and protect the corrupt tyrant from the wrath > they so richly deserve! > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: IDWMaster (webadm) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 14:27:34 -0000 Message-Id: <20100417142734.18775.78917.malone@palladium.canonical.com> My school is actually AFRAID of Linux. I suggested it to them, and told them that it would save them money (no more paying for partnerships with Novell and Microsoft), and explained a few of the security vulnerabilities that Windows has. They pulled me out of a test that I was taking, and interrogated me for 2 hours. They threatened to prevent me from accessing their computers; or take legal action against me; simply because I knew about Linux. They are afraid of people who know about technology, and want Microsoft to control everything. All of their products are from Microsoft, and they spend millions of dollars on MS technology. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 14:37:48 -0000 Message-Id: Hola gang ! If you have problems please switch to Ubuntu Forums, very helpful, and try the "search" feature ! The Ubuntu Forum Community - Ubuntu Forums AllenGG On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 10:43 PM, IDWMaster wrote: > Thanks! Had no idea these recovery tools existed! Sounds really easy to > recover a corrupt filesystem; especially since it doesn't appear to be a > hardware fault (although it could be defective RAM too; so I'll have him > run memtest86+). > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Ubuntu: Incomplete > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In P= rogress > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: New > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: IDWMaster (webadm) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 15:05:15 -0000 Message-Id: <20100417150515.32126.37558.malone@soybean.canonical.com> Only problem is; they made me sign a confidentiality agreement, and if I told anyone names; they would have far more powerful lawyers. The US government is corrupted by corporate monopolies. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 15:23:22 -0000 Message-Id: <20100417152322.24517.4193.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Lol, Allen Graham try to pinch our work away from us lol I am surprised someone would try to do that, particularly at this time! There is plenty of work for all! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 17:01:02 -0000 Message-Id: In 2010, booting from a USB stick can actually be more useful then booting = from a CD. Ubuntu even has a tool for creating a LiveCD USB. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick#Creating%20a%20= bootable%20USB%20Drive > Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 01:22:28 +0000 > From: TomDavies04@Yahoo.Co.Uk > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Hi :) >=20 > I think it is well worth trying a LiveCd session before installing to any= machine, just to make sure you know what (if any) boot options you might n= eed to add > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCD > Check the "Places" menu to see if he does have the Windows partition. Oth= erwise he might want to try some data recovery > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DataRecovery > and a dual-boot install, even with a crippled Windows is usually better b= ecause you can soon pick-up skills that can help fix or recover the Windows= side, even if you can't at the moment. It gives the user something to aim = for > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsDualBoot >=20 > Regards from > Tom :) >=20 > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. >=20 > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Ubuntu: Incomplete > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In P= rogress > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: New > Status in Tilix Linux: New >=20 > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >=20 > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the= ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. Th= is bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >=20 > Steps to repeat: >=20 > 1. Visit a local PC store. >=20 > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-ins= talled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >=20 > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >=20 >=20 >=20 > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe =20 _________________________________________________________________ V=C3=A5rfina smileys till Messenger h=C3=A4r! http://springpack.msn.se --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 17:06:17 -0000 Message-Id: It is not their success that is bad. It is the fact that their position mak= es it hard for others to enter the market that is bad. It does not really m= atter if they have a majority market share or not. What maters is that then= have virtually ALL market shares.=20 > Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 07:46:32 +0000 > From: joelbryan.juliano@gmail.com > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > Subject: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Building something out of spiteful resentment at seeing the success of > another is bad. >=20 > Please reconsider the motivation of this bug, should it be closed or > marked as invalid? >=20 > If you really want to solve this bug, I have attached a patch named > 'Colt_Pistol+Bullets.patch', to apply it, do >=20 > cd "$seattle/microsoft_office/steve_ballmer_office" && patch -p1 < > Colt_Pistol+Bullets.patch >=20 > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. >=20 > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Ubuntu: Incomplete > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In P= rogress > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: New > Status in Tilix Linux: New >=20 > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >=20 > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the= ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. Th= is bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >=20 > Steps to repeat: >=20 > 1. Visit a local PC store. >=20 > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-ins= talled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >=20 > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >=20 >=20 >=20 > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe =20 _________________________________________________________________ Spela spel i Messenger! http://www.windowslive.se/playground/default.asp --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 17:16:45 -0000 Message-Id: The OSS community should create projects like that. It could be funded by p= roviding certification of PHP developers etc... > Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 14:07:12 +0000 > From: joelbryan.juliano@gmail.com > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > I totally agree with you... 3 years ago I was assigned with a project > to create a Linux distribution to be used as a migration effort by the > university I was studying to move to open source, promote open source > and to teach open source languages like PHP, Python and Ruby to > students. The plan as it is written on my contract is for the > distribution to be deployed to over 200+ campuses across the country, > also in the contract says they will be funding TV advertisement to > promote open source to students so that the university will be a > household name for a school that teaches open source. >=20 > When Microsoft found out about the open source initiative this major > school is planning, they soon set a meeting with the head officials > and instantly the open source deal was off... The working product is > already enjoying the deployment, but everything has changed. >=20 > I don't know what happened in the meeting, but after just a week, new > computers have been coming with Microsoft OS, Office, and Visual > Studio pre-installed... All the old computers have been installed with > Linux is reformatted to Xp. I was real close on getting a shot of > changing the course of local tech eduction, but then Microsoft ruined > everything... All the hardwork and countless hours I spend on the > Linux project gone down the drain, thanks to Microsoft. >=20 >=20 > On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 7:11 PM, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB wro= te: > >> Building something out of spiteful resentment at seeing the success of > > another is bad. > > > > I've heard this shit before and everyone who believes this is completely > > missing the point. As a matter of fact, M$ was successful only because > > they were lucky and what I hate about them is not their success, but the > > way they keep themselves on top - I'm pretty sure everyone with as much > > as a single trace of sense of fair play will come up with the exact same > > conclusion if he does some digging and reads about all the bribery and > > extortion this fscked up corporation never hesitates to use if it's in > > their best interest. For example, let's take a closer look at their > > licensing policy - if you wanna get your hands on a bunch of cheap OEM > > kits, you gotta either bundle Winblow$ with the whole model line or > > you're simply outta luck. Of course it's also hardware vendors' fault > > that they agree to this in order to save some quick buck, but that > > doesn't change the fact that it's M$ who does this on purpose to > > artificially slow down the adoption of all competing software, > > restricting end consumers' choice in the process (which is something > > they don't give a fsck about). In the end the whole thing results in > > "chicken and egg problem" with both hardware and software support for > > every system other than Winblow$. Another clear example was the process > > of "standardizing" OOXML - isn't it funny that a lot of committee > > members who eventually reconsidered come from developing countries and > > changed their minds after receiving generous donations from M$ or > > something like that? Isn't it funny that M$ is always there to "help" > > everyone who's seriously considering to move away from Winblow$ like > > India or China? Am I the only one seeing a causal link here? Hardly. How > > about bribing Russia not to go ahead with oficially daclaring them as a > > monopoly? Does that ring any bells? The point is, that all this > > completely brings down fundamental principles of competitive market, so > > M$ can feel free to do whatever they want without suffering any > > consequences. So go ahead and protect the corrupt tyrant from the wrath > > they so richly deserve! > > > > -- > > Microsoft has a majority market share > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > > of the bug. > > >=20 > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. >=20 > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Ubuntu: Incomplete > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In P= rogress > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: New > Status in Tilix Linux: New >=20 > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >=20 > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the= ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. Th= is bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >=20 > Steps to repeat: >=20 > 1. Visit a local PC store. >=20 > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-ins= talled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >=20 > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >=20 >=20 >=20 > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe =20 _________________________________________________________________ Surfa tryggt med Internet Explorer 8 http://www.microsoft.com/sverige/windows/internet-explorer/default.aspx --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 17:23:43 -0000 Message-Id: There are limits of what a confidentiality agreement do cover. Perhaps you = should get a lawyer yourself and check it out. You should never have signed= something like that in the first place. If they want things to be confidential in the first place they would never sue or something like that. That would be like putting up a sign for reporters to investigate... If your story is true this sounds like a cover-up of something illegal. > Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 15:05:15 +0000 > From: webadm@elcnet.servehttp.com > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > Subject: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Only problem is; they made me sign a confidentiality agreement, and if I > told anyone names; they would have far more powerful lawyers. The US > government is corrupted by corporate monopolies. >=20 > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. >=20 > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Ubuntu: Incomplete > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In P= rogress > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: New > Status in Tilix Linux: New >=20 > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >=20 > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the= ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. Th= is bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >=20 > Steps to repeat: >=20 > 1. Visit a local PC store. >=20 > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-ins= talled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >=20 > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >=20 >=20 >=20 > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe =20 _________________________________________________________________ Messenger i mobilen! http://new.windowslivemobile.msn.com/SE-SE/windows-live-messenger-wap/defau= lt.aspx --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 20:13:39 -0000 Message-Id: <4BCA1673.5000900@hal-pc.org> IDWMaster wrote: > Only problem is; they made me sign a confidentiality agreement, and if I > told anyone names; they would have far more powerful lawyers. For a confidentiality agreement to be valid (in most locations... I am=20 not a lawyer), you have to receive something in return. If they left=20 this out, the agreement is voidable. As someone else said, give a=20 lawyer $100 to find out. Lee --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: IDWMaster (webadm) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 01:32:21 -0000 Message-Id: They did give me something in return; they didn't take legal action against= =20 me. If I had not signed it; they would have taken legal action against me i= n=20 court and/or suspended me from school. So basically; they gave me my right = to a public education, and to free speech. However; they said that if there= =20 are any further incidents; they will immediately suspend my account on thei= r=20 school network and take legal action and/or suspension against me. This=20 happened a little over a year ago; so I'm not sure if it's even still valid= .=20 They just think that since I knew about Microsoft's security problems, that= =20 I had compromised their systems (even when I explained to them that I found= =20 out about the vulnerabilities through publicly available sources, and it wa= s=20 there own fault for advertising that they had all of those insecure=20 products). -------------------------------------------------- From: "houstonbofh" Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 3:13 PM To: Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share > IDWMaster wrote: >> Only problem is; they made me sign a confidentiality agreement, and if I >> told anyone names; they would have far more powerful lawyers. > > For a confidentiality agreement to be valid (in most locations... I am > not a lawyer), you have to receive something in return. If they left > this out, the agreement is voidable. As someone else said, give a > lawyer $100 to find out. > > Lee > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Ubuntu: Incomplete > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In P= rogress > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: New > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry,=20 > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and=20 > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential= ,=20 > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software=20 > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: lowlux (lowlux) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 04:20:50 -0000 Message-Id: <20100419042050.17662.18086.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Maybe they should fix most of the bugs on this system instead of tweaking with the icon windows (close, resize window ect ) before even thinking about taking on windows....... what you run out of ideals? WELL FIX SOME BUGS! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 09:06:55 -0000 Message-Id: <1271668015.7285.43.camel@JnS-002-C2D> > Maybe they should fix most of the bugs on this system instead of tweaking with the icon windows (close, resize window ect ) before even thinking about taking on windows....... what you run out of ideals? WELL FIX SOME BUGS! Surprise - the FOSS developer community usually tends to fix any bugs usere find as soon as some of the developers doesn't have any bigger fishes to fry. Actually it's M$ who doesn't give a shit about any deficiencies in their crapware. Let me back that up with an example - attackers keep finding serious problems all around Winblow$ that have been there from day one and they must be well aware of that! I don't think that's a sigh of any effort to fix anything, but I can provide even more concrete proof that you're full of shit: When the college where I used to study first started using M$ Office 2003, they found a bug that could be easily reproduced (and fixing these is pretty much a piece of cake) and it even prompted to submit automatic trace or something like that to M$ so that they could fix it. But guess what - after years and countless submits from all over the place, it's still there! Got that? But in the meantime they managed to ship a whole new version (I guess the good old bug managed to get in as well). Now, let's read some quotes: "There are no significant bugs in our released software that any significant number of users want fixed. =E2=80=A6 I'm saying we don't do a = new version to fix bugs. We don't. Not enough people would buy it. You can take a hundred people using Microsoft Word. Call them up and say "Would you buy a new version because of bugs?" You won't get a single person to say they'd buy a new version because of bugs. We'd never be able to sell a release on that basis." Bill Gates, Focus Magazine No. 43 (23 October 1995) "Microsoft looks at new ideas, they don't evaluate whether the idea will move the industry forward, they ask, 'how will it help us sell more copies of Windows?'" Bill Gates, The Seattle Weekly (April 30, 1998) This comes right from the horses mouth and explicitly says they don't innovate or fix existing bugs (as long as not enough - just do the math and consider how much could be enough with all their market share - people care, they certainly don't). On the contrary, every FOSS project produces regular maintenance releases to fix bugs that gone unnoticed in the stable one while they keep working on the next big thing. Right now, we're closing in on finishing to seriously improve the whole graphic subsystem just because the widespread usage of composite desktop proven the old architecture to have significant deficiencies. Notice that most of the issues this was causing gone pretty much completely unnoticed by most people using GNU/Linux for serious work like CAD/CAE/CAM or cutting movies like AVATAR, so by M$ standards we may well have ignored them because none of our corporate customers have problems with the fact that we fscked up... So, next time think at least twice before posting such bullshit! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: lelamal (lelamal-deactivatedaccount) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 09:14:29 -0000 Message-Id: <20100419091429.23509.96964.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> @lowlux: Amen! My thoughts entirely. Besides, changes like those are no improvement over usability whatsoever, on the contrary, they alienate users (especially newly migrated ones), and ultimately is, in my opinion, a total waste of resources. Fixing bugs would perhaps be a more effective policy, on the long run. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: lelamal (lelamal-deactivatedaccount) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 09:41:46 -0000 Message-Id: <20100419094146.23509.79170.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> @=C2=BBJohn=C2=AB: hey man, relax! Insults and verbal aggression are of no = use in conversations, and don't add anything to the point you're trying to make. We're all entitled to our opinions, and although also your line of thought may as well sound full of $h:eet to your listeners' ears, well you must still be free to make your point without anyone telling you what to think, what to say, or how many times you should think before you even say that. Besides, we all (well, many of us did, at least) signed Ubuntu Code of Conduct (http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct), so we all should be more respectful and learn to consult others when we disagree, because - "surprise" - that may help "resolve disagreements and differing views constructively". Take care (and a deep breath)! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: puzzler995 (emarsee1) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 10:15:39 -0000 Message-Id: <20100419101539.17662.98358.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Very Prevalent In the US. I went to a Best Buy to buy a Network Card and asked someone a question. The second I said "Ubuntu" he said "good luck with that" and left. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 13:18:06 -0000 Message-Id: On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 06:20, lowlux wrote: > Maybe they should fix most of the bugs on this system instead of > tweaking with the icon windows (close, resize window ect ) before even > thinking about taking on windows....... what you run out of ideals? WELL > FIX SOME BUGS! What are the most important ones from your point of view that they should fix before - just a few examples please. I am actively contributing with beta-testing so please tell me some important bug numbers so I can help testing them. On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 12:15, puzzler995 wrote: > Very Prevalent In the US. I went to a Best Buy to buy a Network Card and > asked someone a question. The second I said "Ubuntu" he said "good luck > with that" and left. Yeah, those shop guys are usually THE experts... ;-) --=20 Martin Wildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: IDWMaster (webadm) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 23:41:51 -0000 Message-Id: <20100422234151.19036.89069.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Several people at my school had Windows crash on their computers due to a v= irus originating from Facebook. I provided them with Ubuntu CDs and all ins= tallations of Ubuntu were successful, and people were able to recover most = of their files that were damaged by the viruses. One person asked 'where di= d all of my games go?' and I told him about Wine (the Windows emulator) tha= t might be able to play some of his games. The problem is; a lot of people = expect their programs from Windows to just magically 'appear' in Ubuntu's a= pplication menus from their other partition. He thought that he lost all of= his games; when in reality, they still existed on his hard drive, but they= were not under any of the menus because no shortcuts had been registered. Some other questions were: * Will I lose all of my data when I install Ubuntu? Answer: No; according t= o a book that I read on partitioning; only 1% of re-partitioning attempts f= ail (which means that you should back up your data if you have a device suc= h as a USB hard drive, or other backup media), and if you are unable to bac= k up your data prior to installation; it may be possible to restore your co= rrupted data through the recovery utilities in Ubuntu.=20 * Why doesn't YouTube work? - Answer: Flash Player is not installed; instal= l it from their website or from the Ubuntu Software Center * Why are all of the icons so big? - Answer: The display card was not prope= rly configured. Simply install the proprietary driver under System>Administ= ration>Hardware drivers * Why won't my DVDs play? - Answer: Refer to the Ubuntu Help Center; under = Music, video, and photos. * Where's Microsoft Paint? - Look in the Graphics section of the Ubuntu Sof= tware Center. I personally would recommend using Gimp; which is a great alt= ernative to programs such as Photoshop and Paint, and is entirely free and = open-source. * Does Ubuntu get rid of my virus? - There's probably an AntiVirus program = for Ubuntu in the software center, but your Windows-based virus shouldn't a= ffect your Ubuntu installation.=20 The only problem that occurred during the installation; was that when the u= ser inserted the installation disc; it would sometimes ask them for a passw= ord. I told them to leave the password field blank, because there was no pa= ssword, and that seemed to work. This only happened in a few cases and was = not a major problem. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: zakzor (zakzor) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 01:12:00 -0000 Message-Id: <4BD0F3E0.9070902@gmail.com> > The only problem that occurred during the installation; was that when=20 the user inserted the installation disc; it would sometimes ask them for=20 a password. I told them to leave the password field blank, because there=20 was no password, and that seemed to work. This only happened in a few=20 cases and was not a major problem. @IDWMaster: Aren't you talking about the password to unlock the keyring=20 that stores other passwords like a WEP or WPA wireless one? I that is the case, it's recommended to set up one since no password=20 will leave to unencrypted storage of the stored passwords. This prompt only appears if the user has auto login (like the "ubuntu"=20 user on a Live Session). Take care everyone, zakzor --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: IDWMaster (webadm) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 01:18:24 -0000 Message-Id: <20100423011824.26402.18791.malone@wampee.canonical.com> No; I'm talking about when it asks for the "ubuntu" user's password on a live session (and the auto-login doesn't work). --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: zakzor (zakzor) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 01:29:54 -0000 Message-Id: <4BD0F812.90802@gmail.com> Well, that never happened to me so I was only seeing what I mentioned :p Is there a bug opened to what you mentioned? Its a minor issue but the Live Session "ubuntu" user should always get=20 auto-login. Take care, zakzor --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: IDWMaster (webadm) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 02:34:02 -0000 Message-Id: Just opened bug #568758 regarding the issue. Wasn't sure which package to = file it under though; so I selected unknown package. -------------------------------------------------- From: "zakzor" Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:29 PM To: Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share > Well, that never happened to me so I was only seeing what I mentioned :p > Is there a bug opened to what you mentioned? > Its a minor issue but the Live Session "ubuntu" user should always get > auto-login. > > > Take care, > zakzor > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: Incomplete > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In P= rogress > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: New > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry,=20 > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and=20 > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential= ,=20 > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software=20 > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: PeteC (pete-codescape) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 10:08:29 -0000 Message-Id: <20100423100829.19036.4548.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Just to throw in a comment from a newbie who would seriously like to adopt Ubuntu........ STOP releasing a new version every six months!!! Since 2001, windoze has released (for user desktops) only XP, Vista and now 7. As a result XP (for all its faults) is now quite stable. Stop adding new bells and whistles and concentrate on fixing ALL the issues that are outstanding. I installed 9.04 on my Dell mini-9 as a try out. I was very impressed. My upgrade to 9.10 was a total disaster due to Bug #474495, which somebody decided was a low priority. 10.04-RC is working better but there are still issues. How about making the next release a 'service pack' for lucid. Don't introduce any core changes or waste effort doing a new look-and-feel? If I am to make the switch to ubuntu on my main machines (and I'd like to for many reasons) I need something that is more stable, is still having the 'low priority' bugs fixed and is providing regular updates for the main applications (like firefox and open office) for the next four or five years and that, when it is replaced, will be replaced by something that has had a much longer testing and bug fixing phase... Perhaps I've missed a trick and should have gone back to the last LTS (8.04.4)? If I had would the application updates have finally made it through (e.g. firefox 3.5)? The LTS issue is far from clear. The latest LTS is not the one offered on the main page and it is not (obviously) pointed out the one that is offered will only be supported until next year. Having done a quick search, I still don't know if old versions get application updates.... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 12:14:10 -0000 Message-Id: <20100423121410.26356.96379.malone@wampee.canonical.com> There's a shiny new toy, i want, i want, i want. There's another new toy, i want, i want, i want. It's really bad there are so many shiny new toys. Please stop it!! Force me to keep using the old one i hid in the cupboard. Linux should not allow so many choices! It should be more like Windows. On the other hand i will be quite glad to settle people down on 10.04LTS and let them rest there for a few years. I stuck with 9.04 for about a year. There's still 9months support for it so even now i don't HAVE to upgrade. To upgrade i test a LiveCd of it https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCD try it on a small partition away from my main stable install https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsDualBoot and than decide whether to commit to it or use a separate /home Oh, dang it, more choices!! Here's this link again http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 12:16:01 -0000 Message-Id: <20100423121601.26448.49200.malone@wampee.canonical.com> 6 not 9, but enough to see in another choice of whether to upgrade or not --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Allen Graham (allenggraham) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 12:52:45 -0000 Message-Id: Hola Tom ! you've got it ! Linux/Ubuntu's big weakness: too many choices ! Me? I use 3 different music players, 3 different browsers, and many different image display apps. Why? Because it's there ! AllenGG On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 8:14 AM, Tom wrote: > There's a shiny new toy, i want, i want, i want. There's another new > toy, i want, i want, i want. > > It's really bad there are so many shiny new toys. Please stop it!! Force > me to keep using the old one i hid in the cupboard. > > Linux should not allow so many choices! It should be more like Windows. > > On the other hand i will be quite glad to settle people down on 10.04LTS > and let them rest there for a few years. I stuck with 9.04 for about a > year. There's still 9months support for it so even now i don't HAVE to > upgrade. > > To upgrade i test a LiveCd of it > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCD > try it on a small partition away from my main stable install > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsDualBoot > and than decide whether to commit to it or use a separate /home > Oh, dang it, more choices!! > > Here's this link again > http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm > Regards from > Tom :) > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: Incomplete > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In P= rogress > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: New > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > --=20 Use Ubuntu, a free world , without windows or doors, and no viruses and spyware ! http://www.ubuntu.com/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 13:49:24 -0000 Message-Id: <1272030564.1226.42.camel@JnS-002-C2D> > STOP releasing a new version every six months!!! These are there for a reason - they ship with updates of the key system components such as kernel, X server and desktop environment and I think they're there for those who can't use older releases because of some problem with these (such as incorrectly functioning hardware). Canonical doesn't risk updating this stuff in already released versions of Ubuntu because there's a good chance it might cause more harm than good and since having to wait 2 years for a version of Ubuntu which works for you is probably not an option for many potential customers, here goes the 6 month refresh period. > Since 2001, windoze has released (for user desktops) only XP, Vista and now 7. As a result XP (for all its faults) is now quite stable. Well, as far as both my personal and professional experience goes, the key word in the last sentence is "QUITE". > Stop adding new bells and whistles and concentrate on fixing ALL the issues that are outstanding. That would certainly be nice, but most of these actually get fixed upstream and the fixes don't make it in point (that means maintenance) releases, which is yet another reason for the way things are. > How about making the next release a 'service pack' for lucid. Don't intro= duce any core changes or waste effort doing a new look-and-feel? I can see your point, but I don't see how creating new look-and-feel for every release is responsible for not fixing some outstanding software issues because doing artwork requires a whole lot different skill set than programming so I really doubt these tasks are performed by the same people. > If I am to make the switch to ubuntu on my main machines (and I'd like to= for many reasons) I need something that is more stable, is still having th= e 'low priority' bugs fixed and is providing regular updates for the main a= pplications (like firefox and open office) for the next four or five years = and that, when it is replaced, will be replaced by something that has had a= much longer testing and bug fixing phase... >=20 > Perhaps I've missed a trick and should have gone back to the last LTS (8.= 04.4)? If I had would the application updates have finally made it through = (e.g. firefox 3.5)? >=20 > The LTS issue is far from clear. The latest LTS is not the one offered on= the main page and it is not (obviously) pointed out the one that is offere= d will only be supported until next year. LTS releases are supported for 3 years on the desktop (5 on servers) and there's a new LTS every 2 years, so If you want a stable system, I recommend you to keep upgrading from one LTS to another at the end of it's life. That way you're gonna start with something that has been used and debugged for a year (year and a half including the development process) so at least all the issues you're likely to run into as a regular should already be sorted out. > Having done a quick search, I still don't know if old versions get application updates.... No, they don't. They only keep pulling in point releases from the branch that shipped with the release to minimize the risk of introducing any major issues so you're gonna get Firefox 3.5.?, not 3.?.? unless you install it from some unofficial source like GetDeb or someone's Personal Package Archive. Downloading upstream binaries should work too, but I refuse to mess with that because once you get used to repositories and automatic package management it just seems too much work (and the risk of introducing clutter into otherwise perfectly clean system). --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 18:59:00 -0000 Message-Id: Why don't do it the RHEL/CentOS way with LTS releases where user applicatio= n lake browsers etc gets updated but system stuff only get bug-fixes. To be conservative with kernel updates is good but why be that conservative= with Firefox and OpenOffice? Im not saying we should throw the edgiest ver= sion in to the LTS, first let it prove itself in the edgy version of ubuntu. So a middle way between the current LTS scheme and the current edgy version= could bridge the gap that users feel exist between them. > Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 13:49:24 +0000 > From: JnS.002@gmail.com > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > Subject: [Bug 1] Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > > STOP releasing a new version every six months!!! >=20 > These are there for a reason - they ship with updates of the key system > components such as kernel, X server and desktop environment and I think > they're there for those who can't use older releases because of some > problem with these (such as incorrectly functioning hardware). Canonical > doesn't risk updating this stuff in already released versions of Ubuntu > because there's a good chance it might cause more harm than good and > since having to wait 2 years for a version of Ubuntu which works for you > is probably not an option for many potential customers, here goes the 6 > month refresh period. >=20 >=20 > > Since 2001, windoze has released (for user desktops) only XP, Vista > and now 7. As a result XP (for all its faults) is now quite stable. >=20 > Well, as far as both my personal and professional experience goes, the > key word in the last sentence is "QUITE". >=20 >=20 > > Stop adding new bells and whistles and concentrate on fixing ALL the > issues that are outstanding. >=20 > That would certainly be nice, but most of these actually get fixed > upstream and the fixes don't make it in point (that means maintenance) > releases, which is yet another reason for the way things are. >=20 >=20 > > How about making the next release a 'service pack' for lucid. Don't int= roduce any core changes or waste effort doing a new look-and-feel? >=20 > I can see your point, but I don't see how creating new look-and-feel for > every release is responsible for not fixing some outstanding software > issues because doing artwork requires a whole lot different skill set > than programming so I really doubt these tasks are performed by the same > people. >=20 >=20 > > If I am to make the switch to ubuntu on my main machines (and I'd like = to for many reasons) I need something that is more stable, is still having = the 'low priority' bugs fixed and is providing regular updates for the main= applications (like firefox and open office) for the next four or five year= s and that, when it is replaced, will be replaced by something that has had= a much longer testing and bug fixing phase... > >=20 > > Perhaps I've missed a trick and should have gone back to the last LTS (= 8.04.4)? If I had would the application updates have finally made it throug= h (e.g. firefox 3.5)? > >=20 > > The LTS issue is far from clear. The latest LTS is not the one offered = on the main page and it is not (obviously) pointed out the one that is offe= red will only be supported until next year. >=20 > LTS releases are supported for 3 years on the desktop (5 on servers) and > there's a new LTS every 2 years, so If you want a stable system, I > recommend you to keep upgrading from one LTS to another at the end of > it's life. That way you're gonna start with something that has been used > and debugged for a year (year and a half including the development > process) so at least all the issues you're likely to run into as a > regular should already be sorted out. >=20 >=20 > > Having done a quick search, I still don't know if old versions get > application updates.... >=20 > No, they don't. They only keep pulling in point releases from the branch > that shipped with the release to minimize the risk of introducing any > major issues so you're gonna get Firefox 3.5.?, not 3.?.? unless you > install it from some unofficial source like GetDeb or someone's Personal > Package Archive. Downloading upstream binaries should work too, but I > refuse to mess with that because once you get used to repositories and > automatic package management it just seems too much work (and the risk > of introducing clutter into otherwise perfectly clean system). >=20 > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. >=20 > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: Incomplete > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In P= rogress > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: New > Status in Tilix Linux: New >=20 > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >=20 > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the= ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. Th= is bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >=20 > Steps to repeat: >=20 > 1. Visit a local PC store. >=20 > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-ins= talled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >=20 > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >=20 >=20 >=20 > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe =20 _________________________________________________________________ Spela spel i Messenger! http://www.windowslive.se/playground/default.asp --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 19:26:54 -0000 Message-Id: <4BD1F47E.8040903@hal-pc.org> Faldegast wrote: > Why don't do it the RHEL/CentOS way with LTS releases where user applicat= ion lake browsers etc gets updated but system stuff only get bug-fixes. > To be conservative with kernel updates is good but why be that conservati= ve with Firefox and OpenOffice? Im not saying we should throw the edgiest v= ersion in to the LTS, first let it prove itself in the edgy version of ubun= tu. > So a middle way between the current LTS scheme and the current edgy versi= on could bridge the gap that users feel exist between them. You can do that. You can upgrade whatever you want. You can have an=20 LTS with bleeding edge Firefox and Open Office. Just not supported by=20 Ubuntu. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: draoi99 (draoi99) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 20:59:09 -0000 Message-Id: <4BD20A1D.6000609@yahoo.co.uk> Please use the Ubuntu forums for general chat about Ubuntu. This is=20 supposed to be a bug report. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: PeteC (pete-codescape) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 07:53:15 -0000 Message-Id: <20100424075315.4782.807.malone@palladium.canonical.com> >>You can do that. You can upgrade whatever you want. You can have an LTS with bleeding edge Firefox and Open Office. Just not supported by Ubuntu.<< I feel that, if ubuntu is going to fix this 'bug', it *needs* to address this. I am a 'soft target' as far as ubuntu is concerned. I develop software myself (mostly embedded systems), so am more willing than most to 'get my hands dirty' and sort things out. Despite that I have neither the time nor the inclination to spend a week every six months trying to sort out why my perfectly good setup has suddenly stopped working, due to a host of new 'features', just to keep my main apps up to date. OK - I'll stick with the LTS (assuming 10.04 delivers) and update the apps myself (or find a different distro that isn't so obsessed with change). Joe Public will not be so forgiving. Since I installed 9.04, updates have done nothing for me but stopping my wireless network working, mysteriously messing with the UI so as to completely muck up my setup and wiping out my thuderbird configuration. Unless I was a bit of a techie, I'd just have given up and gone back to M$..... Ubuntu looks by far the most accessible distro and is widely recommended. It just can't afford to throw away an initial good experience like this.... Just promoting mature, well tested LTS versions (rather than the latest) to new users and keeping the apps up to date in that would be a vast improvement. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 09:06:41 -0000 Message-Id: <815818.13347.qm@web24102.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Please when people reply to emails from this thread, please delete all the bit that has been sent from Launchpad. This thread is tooo long already and doesn't need to be doubled by copying back stuff that is already in here! So, hit reply, CtrlA & then delete. Then start writing your reply grrrrrr Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Ubuntu4life (jeroenmerks) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 09:21:27 -0000 Message-Id: <20100424092127.24377.94947.malone@soybean.canonical.com> I can confirm this bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 10:38:20 -0000 Message-Id: <635738.53855.qm@web24104.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Sorry, getting a bit tooo tense lol. Many apols for my last posting! Hopefully LTS releases get pushed more at the beginning of their cycle but as the new one approaches the intermediate releases are more "trendy" and more likely to "wow" people. Certainly it seemed that 80.04 was pushed much more heavily until about 9.10. I think it's reasonable to hop releases, perhaps do an annual upgrade. The great thing is that you are GIVEN the choice. You are NOT FORCED to keep upgrading. Each release is supported for 18months!! As keeps on drearily being pointed out if you were only allowed to buy 1 type of food all the time, say you were only allowed to eat apples, and only ones that were picked at a certain date. As time went by the prospect of eating the ageing apples would wear a bit thin & eventually surely you would be outraged? If there was only 1 movie or 1 tele series then how often woul you want to go to the movies or watch tele? If there was only 1 type of shirt that you were allowed to buy & only 1 size available then how happy would everyone be with that? Only 1 flavour of ice-cream. Only 1 colour of skin? How acceptable would that be? We need diversity for healthy reasons, to avoid dying of boredom. Shaking things up is good. If someone hadn't shaken a certain tree on a certain day then would graphitti exist today? Intractable problems are often solved by someone taking a fresh perspective. How can we hope to generate fresh perspective if everything stays the same? Diversity breeds success! Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 22:23:31 -0000 Message-Id: I have no personal problems with tweaking my own Linux installation. Howeve= r I also install and manage the Linux installation of around a dozen people= in my family, extended family etc. I prefer that management to be limited = to adding a script that keeps the computer upgraded. Average Joe do not want a choice. They want a stable OS with regular patches. They do not want to do full system updates or even make an active decision when updates is around. My current solution for this is that i use the LTS version and have a script that updates the system on every start-up. I also have a post-install script that apt-gets everything that my users usually want. LTS is the only solution to this. Do not speak about a choice because there is no choice. The non-LTS version is completely unusable in this scenario. Average Joe is not interested in doing a full system upgrade every 6 month. Also Average Joe is not interested in a year old browser. This is a deadlock. There is no arguments in why Average Joe should be forced to have either one or another. Upgrading the browser does not make the OS unstable, even if it may make the browser temporarily unstable. There is however good reasons to be very conservative about kernel and library updates. And to be honest, this is the number one reason that Ubuntu is not installe= d on computers you buy in the store. A edgy distribution is not acceptable = from a support perspective, and a super-conservative distribution like LTS = is not acceptable from a user perspective. =20 _________________________________________________________________ Spela spel i Messenger! http://www.windowslive.se/playground/default.asp --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 00:08:35 -0000 Message-Id: On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 00:23, Faldegast wrote: > And to be honest, this is the number one reason that Ubuntu is not instal= led on computers you buy in the store. A edgy distribution is not acceptabl= e from a support perspective, and a super-conservative distribution like LT= S is not acceptable from a user perspective. I think, you are right and completely agree with you. I also find it annoying that for instance my Ubuntu 9.10 does not get Open Office upgrade to 3.2 during normal upgrades. I think to remember, that Fedora did such things (or still do it - don't know). --=20 Martin Wildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 02:53:30 -0000 Message-Id: <4BD651AA.4080305@hal-pc.org> Martin Wildam wrote: > I think, you are right and completely agree with you. I also find it > annoying that for instance my Ubuntu 9.10 does not get Open Office > upgrade to 3.2 during normal upgrades. Do you all realize that the "patch" to this bug is to open a ppa for=20 firefox or open office on the LTS, right? It is a bit of work, but that=20 is how things get done in open source. Essentially all it would be is=20 testing the backports, and making sure they work, then copying them over. Lee --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 06:51:24 -0000 Message-Id: On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 04:53, houstonbofh wrote: > Martin Wildam wrote: >> I think, you are right and completely agree with you. I also find it >> annoying that for instance my Ubuntu 9.10 does not get Open Office >> upgrade to 3.2 during normal upgrades. > Do you all realize that the "patch" to this bug is to open a ppa for > firefox or open office on the LTS, right? What?!? - Really? - Is there a list of ppas that can be added this way? Doesn't that conflict then with security updates from Canonical? >=C2=A0It is a bit of work, but that > is how things get done in open source. =C2=A0Essentially all it would be = is > testing the backports, and making sure they work, then copying them over. Adding a repository is quite no work in relation to searching for the right downloads on the Windows platform continuously again and again. --=20 Martin Wildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 13:07:41 -0000 Message-Id: <4BD6E19D.6020102@hal-pc.org> This is not a support forum, but... Martin Wildam wrote: > What?!? - Really? - Is there a list of ppas that can be added this > way? Doesn't that conflict then with security updates from Canonical? You have to look. A quick google=20 http://www.google.com/search?q=3Dubuntu+firefox+ppa showed 2 good pages.=20 https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FirefoxNewVersion and=20 https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/ppa > Adding a repository is quite no work in relation to searching for the > right downloads on the Windows platform continuously again and again. I was actually talking about making one if there is not one out there.=20 My point was that Ubuntu and linux are structured to allow YOU (and any=20 other "you") to fix any problems. You just have to have the will and=20 acquire the skill. This is a serious advantage over "The Market Leader"=20 which is what bug 1 is all about. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 20:30:38 -0000 Message-Id: >I think, you are right and completely agree with you. I also find it >annoying that for instance my Ubuntu 9.10 does not get Open Office >upgrade to 3.2 during normal upgrades. Yeah, but Fedora also upgrades the kernel and thats far to edgy. What i am talking about is to get the OO upgrades from 9.10 into the 8.04 LTS edition. =20 _________________________________________________________________ Spela spel i Messenger! http://www.windowslive.se/playground/default.asp --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 20:33:30 -0000 Message-Id: > Do you all realize that the "patch" to this bug is to open a ppa for=20 > firefox or open office on the LTS, right? It is a bit of work, but that = > is how things get done in open source. Essentially all it would be is=20 > testing the backports, and making sure they work, then copying them over. So how exactly do i get it approved and fully supported for the LTS? =20 _________________________________________________________________ Klicka h=C3=A4r! http://new.windowslivemobile.msn.com/SE-SE/windows-live-hotmail/default.aspx --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Cariaga (mzc) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 04:08:55 -0000 Message-Id: <20100429040855.25075.31045.malone@wampee.canonical.com> I guess everyone has heard that HTC and Microsoft has signed a deal that makes HTC pay royalties to Microsoft for its Android OS use, implying that Android has infringed MS's "Linux patents". Also everyone knows that the Android OS is close or has reached its critical mass, hence, companies like Apple and Microsoft has been shaking the tree for patent infingements. My point is when Ubuntu reaches the same status as Android, will it be prone to threats to patent infringements, specifically similar to what Microsoft has been nailing HTC???? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 11:51:13 -0000 Message-Id: > I guess everyone has heard that HTC and Microsoft has signed a deal that > makes HTC pay royalties to Microsoft for its Android OS use, implying > that Android has infringed MS's "Linux patents". Also everyone knows > that the Android OS is close or has reached its critical mass, hence, > companies like Apple and Microsoft has been shaking the tree for patent > infingements. My point is when Ubuntu reaches the same status as > Android, will it be prone to threats to patent infringements, > specifically similar to what Microsoft has been nailing HTC???? The answer is yes. However I do not think that the entire Linux community will fall flat and pay Microsoft. Instead the battle will be in court and many of those "Linux" patents will be invalidated. The worst-case scenario is that there will be a small fee to pay for Linux users. Xandros has a "covenant" with Microsoft and users can opt in by paying $50 for it. Red Hat has a patent warranty included in their product. They have chosen to not pay and will meet patent holders in court should they choose to sue. I see the $50 covenant as the worst-case scenario, and that is not really that expensive. Of course paying such a covenant fee also imply that we can use any known patented technology that we currently exclude from Linux-based products. Personally I do not run Linux because it is cheap. I do not mind paying for= it. I run it because of its quality. =20 _________________________________________________________________ Messenger i mobilen! http://new.windowslivemobile.msn.com/SE-SE/windows-live-messenger-wap/defau= lt.aspx --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Cariaga (mzc) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 02:40:30 -0000 Message-Id: <1272595230.1431.34.camel@mark-netbook2> So small chinese OEM manufacturers will be prone from IP threats just like HTC; will they ever distribute Ubuntu...if by the end of the day Microsoft will collect extortion money? Its probably something that watch out for...The Redmond company has chosen litigation over innovation and with every Ubuntu release WE are choosing innovation... On the bright side..Congratulations to all Ubuntu developers for another successful release!!! it's now time to party because its not just software we enjoy it the community as well :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: rupert (r-plumridge) Date: Mon, 03 May 2010 01:20:14 -0000 Message-Id: <20100503012014.19448.20909.malone@wampee.canonical.com> I can confirm this bug is fixed at my house. Two years ago, there was 100% MS market penetration. Today, there is 83.3% Ubuntu penetration. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Mon, 03 May 2010 06:04:47 -0000 Message-Id: On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 03:20, rupert wrote: > I can confirm this bug is fixed at my house. Two years ago, there was > 100% MS market penetration. Today, there is 83.3% Ubuntu penetration. At home I have 100% Linux-Penetration. In the office I also work on Ubuntu. - So I Ubuntu has a 100% penetration for me. But wait: I have a Virtualbox with Windows running because I need to support customers using Windows. How many percent is a daily-work-Linux-Box with a virtual machine running Windows? Honestly one would need to consider working hours on the particular OS, right? I think in the transition phase a lot will work with virtual machines or using Windows Terminal (or Citrix) Servers. But for this bug it seems to be not relevant because what counts is the preinstalled Ubuntu machines offered in shops. Maybe when filing that bug people considered that would be achieved earlier than "real" market penetration. I am not sure if usage penetration will not be earlier achieved than penetration in shop offers. ;-) --=20 Martin Wildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Claudiu Vlad (claudiu-vlad) Date: Wed, 05 May 2010 19:18:18 -0000 Message-Id: <20100505191818.1918.55910.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Mark, You really need to make a task force for building a Visual Studio for Ubunt= u. THEN, this bug will be fixed . Just take a look at what Microsoft did. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Wed, 05 May 2010 21:23:14 -0000 Message-Id: > Mark, > You really need to make a task force for building a Visual Studio for Ubu= ntu. > THEN, this bug will be fixed . Just take a look at what Microsoft did. In general i think that we really need task forces in plural.=20 There are a lot of overlapping projects. One example is that KDE and Gnome = should merge, at least when it comes to key technologies. 1. We need a standardized method for embedding objects. Like Java Beans and OLE/ActiveX in Windows. I mean how do you view a office document in a VS application, or create a PDF report? You find an ActiveX that can do it. KDE has KParts and Gnome has something similar, but we really need a standard for this. Or in other words we need a standard for Custom Controls. In OLE/ActiveX an object can be inproc (dynamically or statically linked) or out of proc (external server process that starts on demand). Also the app is totally oblivious to w 2. We need a visual editor that can create new Custom Controls, or design containers like forms/windows. The Lazarus FreePascal IDE is an interesting project. Another thing that we need is a good native database library. We have JDBC = and ADO.NET. Perhaps one of them could be ported to C/C++? We also have PHP= Data Objects that is quite nice and probably implemented in C, perhaps the= C code could be used to make a "C Data Objects"? =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail i mobilen p=C3=A5 5 sekunder! http://new.windowslivemobile.msn.com/SE-SE/windows-live-hotmail/default.aspx --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: IDWMaster (webadm) Date: Wed, 05 May 2010 22:19:47 -0000 Message-Id: MonoDevelop is very similar to VS; although it would be nice if the .NET=20 APIs had deeper integration into Ubuntu (such as screensavers, packaging=20 systems, authentication, etc.). Although; MonoDevelop is still rapidly=20 evolving into another great development platform for Ubuntu! -------------------------------------------------- From: "Faldegast" Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 4:23 PM To: Subject: RE: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share > >> Mark, >> You really need to make a task force for building a Visual Studio for=20 >> Ubuntu. >> THEN, this bug will be fixed . Just take a look at what Microsoft did. > > In general i think that we really need task forces in plural. > There are a lot of overlapping projects. One example is that KDE and Gnom= e=20 > should merge, at least when it comes to key technologies. > > 1. We need a standardized method for embedding objects. Like Java Beans > and OLE/ActiveX in Windows. I mean how do you view a office document in > a VS application, or create a PDF report? You find an ActiveX that can > do it. KDE has KParts and Gnome has something similar, but we really > need a standard for this. Or in other words we need a standard for > Custom Controls. In OLE/ActiveX an object can be inproc (dynamically or > statically linked) or out of proc (external server process that starts > on demand). Also the app is totally oblivious to w > > 2. We need a visual editor that can create new Custom Controls, or > design containers like forms/windows. > > The Lazarus FreePascal IDE is an interesting project. > > Another thing that we need is a good native database library. We have JDB= C=20 > and ADO.NET. Perhaps one of them could be ported to C/C++? We also have=20 > PHP Data Objects that is quite nice and probably implemented in C, perhap= s=20 > the C code could be used to make a "C Data Objects"? > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail i mobilen p=C3=A5 5 sekunder! > http://new.windowslivemobile.msn.com/SE-SE/windows-live-hotmail/default.a= spx > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In P= rogress > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Confirmed > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: New > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry,=20 > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and=20 > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential= ,=20 > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software=20 > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: iceman21ad (cmdunionmillwright) Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 16:13:41 -0000 Message-Id: <20100506161342.1851.96308.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> ok i have generated a local bug fix that has caused me some problems. any time i have a guest over for any amount of time and they need to use a computer they have to use mine and this has caused me no end of problems that every one now wants me to fix the bug in their home( very time consuming). even took my com to work one time (oh lord a mistake )and it took off with out me for 6 hours (boss caught me and he browsed it making sure i didn't have any closed source info and then i had to walk him through the fix reinstall and reboot and upgrade for his personal com while on the job when i was already behind schedule. yes he did give me an extension . --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 17:26:40 -0000 Message-Id: <1273166800.7833.40.camel@JnS-002-C2D> > In general i think that we really need task forces in plural. Agreed, but some we already have some (like kernel hackers, X.org guys, people who build desktop environments, ...). > There are a lot of overlapping projects. One example is that KDE and Gnom= e should merge, at least when it comes to key technologies. That would certainly help to reduce the desperate shortage of manpower. > 1. We need a standardized method for embedding objects. Like Java Beans a= nd OLE/ActiveX in Windows. I mean how do you view a office document in a VS= application, or create a PDF report? You find an ActiveX that can do it. K= DE has KParts and Gnome has something similar, but we really need a standar= d for this. Or in other words we need a standard for Custom Controls. In OL= E/ActiveX an object can be inproc (dynamically or statically linked) or out= of proc (external server process that starts on demand). Also the app is t= otally oblivious to w=20 >=20 > 2. We need a visual editor that can create new Custom Controls, or design= containers like forms/windows. >=20 > The Lazarus FreePascal IDE is an interesting project. So instead of learning how to properly use existing libraries and then writing nice and clean code yourself you prefer to have some kind of gizmo spit out some crap for you and you actually call that programming? Thank god that most people writing free software don't take the same approach, because I'm convinced that's just a way of making things rapidly deteriorate. Don't get me wrong - I know these are very powerful tools in the hands of a true professional, but they're also helping to make things suck so much more when some lazy and incompetent fuck is just abusing them to roll his piece of crap ASAP so that he could start making easy money out of it and doesn't even have a clue of how to use them properly. Unfortunately I've seen way too much crap that was "programmed" exactly this way to prove my point. > Another thing that we need is a good native database library. We have JDBC and ADO.NET. Perhaps one of them could be ported to C/C++? We also have PHP Data Objects that is quite nice and probably implemented in C, perhaps the C code could be used to make a "C Data Objects"? There are quite a few - libmysql, libpq, libsqlite... many of them with bindings to whatever language you like. Just pick the best fit for your desired application. I think the bottom line is that the programming model is completely different and those who just want to make their job easy and cobble something up without actually knowing anything about coding are gonna have a very hard time getting used to it. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 20:43:44 -0000 Message-Id: On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 21:18, Claudiu Vlad wrote: > You really need to make a task force for building a Visual Studio for Ubu= ntu. > THEN, this bug will be fixed . Just take a look at what Microsoft did. Visual Studio is a big fat thing and IDE features of NetBeans for example are way better IMHO. Only advantage is the visual GUI editor for web applications. But apart from that, it is an application for developers - that is not the Focus of Ubuntu! There are other people in charge for building development tools. --=20 Martin Wildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Cariaga (mzc) Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 21:24:28 -0000 Message-Id: +1 ..... the bug description itself never mentioned anything about developer tools... for us that are already reading this bug report we need to influence (your favorite electronic shop here) to sell ubuntu certified desktops,laptops,and mids. This cannot be resolved by develops alone. On May 6, 2010 2:02 PM, "Martin Wildam" wrote: On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 21:18, Claudiu Vlad wrote: > You really need to make... Visual Studio is a big fat thing and IDE features of NetBeans for example are way better IMHO. Only advantage is the visual GUI editor for web applications. But apart from that, it is an application for developers - that is not the Focus of Ubuntu! There are other people in charge for building development tools. -- Martin Wildam --=20 Microsoft has a majority market share https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 You received this bug n... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Fri, 07 May 2010 00:25:28 -0000 Message-Id: > > In general i think that we really need task forces in plural. >=20 > Agreed, but some we already have some (like kernel hackers, X.org guys, > people who build desktop environments, ...). I know that a few project have very organized task forces. However neither of those you mention shows much of that. > > There are a lot of overlapping projects. One example is that KDE and Gn= ome should merge, at least when it comes to key technologies. >=20 > That would certainly help to reduce the desperate shortage of manpower. > > 1. We need a standardized method for embedding objects. Like Java Beans= and OLE/ActiveX in Windows. I mean how do you view a office document in a = VS application, or create a PDF report? You find an ActiveX that can do it.= KDE has KParts and Gnome has something similar, but we really need a stand= ard for this. Or in other words we need a standard for Custom Controls. In = OLE/ActiveX an object can be inproc (dynamically or statically linked) or o= ut of proc (external server process that starts on demand). Also the app is= totally oblivious to w=20 > >=20 > > 2. We need a visual editor that can create new Custom Controls, or desi= gn containers like forms/windows. > >=20 > > The Lazarus FreePascal IDE is an interesting project. >=20 > So instead of learning how to properly use existing libraries and then > writing nice and clean code yourself you prefer to have some kind of > gizmo spit out some crap for you and you actually call that programming? > Thank god that most people writing free software don't take the same > approach, because I'm convinced that's just a way of making things > rapidly deteriorate. Don't get me wrong - I know these are very powerful > tools in the hands of a true professional, but they're also helping to > make things suck so much more when some lazy and incompetent fuck is > just abusing them to roll his piece of crap ASAP so that he could start > making easy money out of it and doesn't even have a clue of how to use > them properly. Unfortunately I've seen way too much crap that was > "programmed" exactly this way to prove my point. What? Can you be more specific in how you come to this ramblings out of what i wrote? How would having a standard rather then (at least) two incompatible solutions create such a mess? > > Another thing that we need is a good native database library. We have > JDBC and ADO.NET. Perhaps one of them could be ported to C/C++? We also > have PHP Data Objects that is quite nice and probably implemented in C, > perhaps the C code could be used to make a "C Data Objects"? >=20 > There are quite a few - libmysql, libpq, libsqlite... many of them with > bindings to whatever language you like. Just pick the best fit for your > desired application. So how do i use libmysql to connect to my postres database again? None of t= hose are database libraries. They are database-specific client libraries.=20 The only C database lib i know that is actively developed i libzdb (http://= www.tildeslash.com/libzdb/documentation.html). > I think the bottom line is that the programming model is completely > different and those who just want to make their job easy and cobble > something up without actually knowing anything about coding are gonna > have a very hard time getting used to it. In what way is it different? Most things i suggest are already in the progr= amming model. The OLE/ActiveX-component type of component model for OO prog= ramming does exist. It exists in the form of beans, kpart and bonobo. The o= nly difference with creating a standard is that kde objects would be usable= in gnome and gnome objects in kde.=20 =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail i mobilen p=C3=A5 5 sekunder! http://new.windowslivemobile.msn.com/SE-SE/windows-live-hotmail/default.aspx --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Fri, 07 May 2010 00:28:03 -0000 Message-Id: > +1 ..... the bug description itself never mentioned anything about develo= per > tools... for us that are already reading this bug report we need to > influence (your favorite electronic shop here) to sell ubuntu certified > desktops,laptops,and mids. This cannot be resolved by develops alone. The army av VS developers creating custom apps is one of the reasons Window= s is so big. If they all would switch to something platform independent it = would have a huge impact on the vendor lock-in effect. =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail i mobilen p=C3=A5 5 sekunder! http://new.windowslivemobile.msn.com/SE-SE/windows-live-hotmail/default.aspx --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Randall Ross (randall) Date: Fri, 07 May 2010 00:42:44 -0000 Message-Id: <4BE36204.3070005@executiv.es> The key to solving this bug lies in the title of the bug. Ubuntu needs marketing. Market it! The rest will follow ;) Cheers, Randall. On 10-05-06 05:25 PM, Faldegast wrote: > =20 >>> In general i think that we really need task forces in plural. >>> =20 >> Agreed, but some we already have some (like kernel hackers, X.org guys, >> people who build desktop environments, ...). >> =20 > I know that a few project have very organized task forces. However > neither of those you mention shows much of that. > > =20 >>> There are a lot of overlapping projects. One example is that KDE and Gn= ome should merge, at least when it comes to key technologies. >>> =20 >> That would certainly help to reduce the desperate shortage of manpower. >> =20 > > =20 >>> 1. We need a standardized method for embedding objects. Like Java Beans= and OLE/ActiveX in Windows. I mean how do you view a office document in a = VS application, or create a PDF report? You find an ActiveX that can do it.= KDE has KParts and Gnome has something similar, but we really need a stand= ard for this. Or in other words we need a standard for Custom Controls. In = OLE/ActiveX an object can be inproc (dynamically or statically linked) or o= ut of proc (external server process that starts on demand). Also the app is= totally oblivious to w=20 >>> >>> 2. We need a visual editor that can create new Custom Controls, or desi= gn containers like forms/windows. >>> >>> The Lazarus FreePascal IDE is an interesting project. >>> =20 >> So instead of learning how to properly use existing libraries and then >> writing nice and clean code yourself you prefer to have some kind of >> gizmo spit out some crap for you and you actually call that programming? >> Thank god that most people writing free software don't take the same >> approach, because I'm convinced that's just a way of making things >> rapidly deteriorate. Don't get me wrong - I know these are very powerful >> tools in the hands of a true professional, but they're also helping to >> make things suck so much more when some lazy and incompetent fuck is >> just abusing them to roll his piece of crap ASAP so that he could start >> making easy money out of it and doesn't even have a clue of how to use >> them properly. Unfortunately I've seen way too much crap that was >> "programmed" exactly this way to prove my point. >> =20 > What? Can you be more specific in how you come to this ramblings out of > what i wrote? How would having a standard rather then (at least) two > incompatible solutions create such a mess? > > =20 >>> Another thing that we need is a good native database library. We have >>> =20 >> JDBC and ADO.NET. Perhaps one of them could be ported to C/C++? We also >> have PHP Data Objects that is quite nice and probably implemented in C, >> perhaps the C code could be used to make a "C Data Objects"? >> >> There are quite a few - libmysql, libpq, libsqlite... many of them with >> bindings to whatever language you like. Just pick the best fit for your >> desired application. >> =20 > So how do i use libmysql to connect to my postres database again? None of= those are database libraries. They are database-specific client libraries.= =20 > The only C database lib i know that is actively developed i libzdb (http:= //www.tildeslash.com/libzdb/documentation.html). > > =20 >> I think the bottom line is that the programming model is completely >> different and those who just want to make their job easy and cobble >> something up without actually knowing anything about coding are gonna >> have a very hard time getting used to it. >> =20 > In what way is it different? Most things i suggest are already in the pro= gramming model. The OLE/ActiveX-component type of component model for OO pr= ogramming does exist. It exists in the form of beans, kpart and bonobo. The= only difference with creating a standard is that kde objects would be usab= le in gnome and gnome objects in kde.=20 > =20 > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail i mobilen p=C3=A5 5 sekunder! > http://new.windowslivemobile.msn.com/SE-SE/windows-live-hotmail/default.a= spx > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Cariaga (mzc) Date: Fri, 07 May 2010 04:51:16 -0000 Message-Id: <1273207876.3805.76.camel@mark-netbook2> >=20 > The army av VS developers creating custom apps is one of the reasons Wind= ows is so big. If they all would switch to something platform independent i= t would have a huge impact on the vendor lock-in effect. > =20 First of all, I'm not against this idea that there's a lack of developer tools in ubuntu, or if developers are restricted to a competitor's platform. Everyone has a right to be heard, but I think if there's an issue about app development it should be written on a separate bug report. If I'm not mistaken bug#1 is about defeating the behemoth, and if I understand this right it's about me, my family, friends, co-workers, employer to NOT use microsoft because we all now that monopoly hinders innovation and freedom. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Fri, 07 May 2010 11:56:44 -0000 Message-Id: <1273233404.9454.90.camel@JnS-002-C2D> Good morning, sir. > What? Can you be more specific in how you come to this ramblings out of w= hat i wrote? How would having a standard rather then (at least) two incompa= tible solutions create such a mess? It wouldn't, but all sorts of idiots abusing it would. I guess we can all agree that good open standards are good thing for everyone except bastards using proprietary crap to create vendor lock-ins so that they could keep their stranglehold on ICT industry. I just don't like the whole embedding idea very much because "when you create something that even an idiot can use, only idiots will use it". That's how I got to the point where I started rambling about undesirable effects of these technologies. > So how do i use libmysql to connect to my postres database again? None of= those are database libraries. They are database-specific client libraries.= The only C database lib i know that is actively developed i libzdb (http:/= /www.tildeslash.com/libzdb/documentation.html). You don't. As you've said, libmysql is a client library for MySQL server and libpq is it's PostgreSQL equivalent. I guess you're talking about some wrapper library which serves as another abstraction layer built on top of various database libraries, but I believe using this kind of stuff is a very bad idea, because it only introduces more bugs and it's definitely less efficient than using selected database directly, but if you really need this then there's libdbi, libyada, UNIXODBC and others so this shouldn't be a problem. > In what way is it different? Most things i suggest are already in the pro= gramming model. The OLE/ActiveX-component type of component model for OO pr= ogramming does exist. It exists in the form of beans, kpart and bonobo. The= only difference with creating a standard is that kde objects would be usab= le in gnome and gnome objects in kde.=20 Again - cooperating to create a solid common open standard is good because it removes a good deal of otherwise duplicated efforts (which is very common across free software landscape). It's just that for example Bonobo has been deprecated since GNOME 2.4 so it's not just me, but even those brilliant guys programming the whole desktop environment thing don't think it's such a good idea, you know=E2=80=A6 As far as IDEs go, I've personally tried at least Eclipse and NetBeans and they're definitely on the right track. Anyway - although I agree that the lack of native applications for various purposes is one of the main reasons why GNU/Linux has a significant disadvantage to Winblow$ in terms of it's adoption by end users, I don't think this is the right place to discuss software development topics and as far as attracting more so called "software developers" who don't give a rat's ass about free software, I think we're better off without them. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Fri, 07 May 2010 20:20:28 -0000 Message-Id: > Good morning, sir. >=20 >=20 > > What? Can you be more specific in how you come to this ramblings out of= what i wrote? How would having a standard rather then (at least) two incom= patible solutions create such a mess? >=20 > It wouldn't, but all sorts of idiots abusing it would. I guess we can > all agree that good open standards are good thing for everyone except > bastards using proprietary crap to create vendor lock-ins so that they > could keep their stranglehold on ICT industry. I just don't like the > whole embedding idea very much because "when you create something that > even an idiot can use, only idiots will use it". That's how I got to the > point where I started rambling about undesirable effects of these > technologies. Stil, these technologies are currently around in Linux. All i suggest is th= at we standardize it. It should actually be a part of my original suggestio= n to merge Gnome and KDE, as this require them to use each others component= s. Of course there is also the issue of remote objects. There are replaceme= nts for DCOM in Linux, however there are no standard here either. For this = i think i prefer the binary webservice model, it is standardised and fast. = However it still is only available in a few languages. There is a good Java= implementation, but we also need a good C implementation. I don't care if idiots use development tools and use them incorrectly. If its not quality software its going to fade away, if it even gets used in the first place. Also i don't care if there are a few proprietary for reporting, diagrams as such. Good luck selling components that does stuff already available as free components. The only reasons components for stuff like TCP/IP is commercially available in Windows is because developers of free software never took on that platform, after all why bother when writing good components for OSS platforms is more important. Would it really be so bad if Gecko, OpenOffice and VLC was available as custom controls that could easily be added to an application, in a standardized way? Like Trident, MS Office and Media Player can be added in a VS application? > > So how do i use libmysql to connect to my postres database again? None = of those are database libraries. They are database-specific client librarie= s. The only C database lib i know that is actively developed i libzdb (http= ://www.tildeslash.com/libzdb/documentation.html). >=20 > You don't. As you've said, libmysql is a client library for MySQL server > and libpq is it's PostgreSQL equivalent. I guess you're talking about > some wrapper library which serves as another abstraction layer built on > top of various database libraries, but I believe using this kind of > stuff is a very bad idea, because it only introduces more bugs and it's > definitely less efficient than using selected database directly, but if > you really need this then there's libdbi, libyada, UNIXODBC and others > so this shouldn't be a problem. >=20 >=20 > > In what way is it different? Most things i suggest are already in the p= rogramming model. The OLE/ActiveX-component type of component model for OO = programming does exist. It exists in the form of beans, kpart and bonobo. T= he only difference with creating a standard is that kde objects would be us= able in gnome and gnome objects in kde.=20 >=20 > Again - cooperating to create a solid common open standard is good > because it removes a good deal of otherwise duplicated efforts (which is > very common across free software landscape). It's just that for example > Bonobo has been deprecated since GNOME 2.4 so it's not just me, but even > those brilliant guys programming the whole desktop environment thing > don't think it's such a good idea, you know=E2=80=A6 Bonobo is deprecated and partially replaced by DCOP. However it is still be= ing used for some graphical components. There are discussions on how to exp= and on DCOP or other technologies to remove Bonobo completely. Its mainly i= ts CORBA dependency that is being questioned, not its high-level function. =20 > As far as IDEs go, I've personally tried at least Eclipse and NetBeans > and they're definitely on the right track. Anyway - although I agree > that the lack of native applications for various purposes is one of the > main reasons why GNU/Linux has a significant disadvantage to Winblow$ in > terms of it's adoption by end users, I don't think this is the right > place to discuss software development topics and as far as attracting > more so called "software developers" who don't give a rat's ass about > free software, I think we're better off without them. Both Eclipse and NetBeans has its bright sides. NetBeans has some good RAD GUI editing tools and Eclipse has a very good UML tool. If they was merged they would be more then a match for VC C#. However C/C++ is still an issue. I do not agree that we would be better off without developers that makes commercial software. I think we need the whole spectra of developers to embrace Linux as a excellent development platform. One way I have started is to tell developers that using the VirtualBox imag= es with pre-installed Linux is a good way to get Eclipse up and running wit= hout much problem. Those that have used eclipse on Windows knows that confi= guring Eclipse can be a bitch, but in Linux its you just install packages. = After trying this they usually stick with VirtualBox+Linux or change to Lin= ux completely. Thus of course their code will be fully tested for Linux. =20 _________________________________________________________________ Surfa tryggt med Internet Explorer 8 http://www.microsoft.com/sverige/windows/internet-explorer/default.aspx --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Sat, 08 May 2010 11:16:02 -0000 Message-Id: > > > So how do i use libmysql to connect to my postres database again? Non= e of those are database libraries. They are database-specific client librar= ies. The only C database lib i know that is actively developed i libzdb (ht= tp://www.tildeslash.com/libzdb/documentation.html). > >=20 > > You don't. As you've said, libmysql is a client library for MySQL server > > and libpq is it's PostgreSQL equivalent. I guess you're talking about > > some wrapper library which serves as another abstraction layer built on > > top of various database libraries, but I believe using this kind of > > stuff is a very bad idea, because it only introduces more bugs and it's > > definitely less efficient than using selected database directly, but if > > you really need this then there's libdbi, libyada, UNIXODBC and others > > so this shouldn't be a problem. =20 I forgot to comment on this in my previous reply. Using an abstraction laye= r does not decrease efficiency, as they are very thin. Abstraction layers t= hat is does impose a performance problem does not live long, unless they ad= d A LOT of functionality. libdbi has been unmaintained for quite a while, b= ut was the closest thing to MSDAC that we had with wrappers for PHP and man= y other languages. I was a bit unclear here. When i said we need a native d= atabase library i did not mean one limited to native C/C++ apps. I meant on= e that is written in such a language but established as a standard to other= languages. While such an abstraction layer may introduce bugs they may also neutralize bugs. For example they can work around problems in the specific client libraries, and they can also have their own implementation of common functionality that is shared between databases. This means code deduplication and therefore decreased chance of bugs. The most important feature of an abstraction layer is that changing database is a lot easier and you usually only have to change some incompatible SQL code. Use an SQL builder and that problem is gone to. When creating an application that supports many database engines this means a lot less bugs. And usually applications need to support more then one database so that makes the "more bugs" argument void for major applications. Actually dbmail changed to libzdb for this specific reason. In Windows client libraries is usually implemented as MSDAC or ODBC components. This kind of standardization also decreases the probability of bug. Here is also one of the main reasons to have a OO extention to libr= aries (like COM). Creating bindings for a OO library in PHP, Python, Pearl,= Java etc usually means writing a lot of code in their respective languages= . In windows all these languages just use MSDAC trough OLE, there is no nat= ive support for MSDAC in them, it just work as there are a standard for how= to call ANY such component. This also removes a lot of duplicate code and = loads of potential bugs. =20 _________________________________________________________________ Klicka h=C3=A4r! http://new.windowslivemobile.msn.com/SE-SE/windows-live-hotmail/default.aspx --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sat, 08 May 2010 22:12:11 -0000 Message-Id: Before this degrades to a developer litigation - regarding the development: 1. I think there are really enough options for developing under Linux. 2. I don't see Visual Studio being sooo good. I used Visual Studio for more than 10 years and I felt way better after I switched to NetBeans and Java development. 3. It would be good if even every full idiot could use the libraries/APIs and the IDE. That would include a lot of crap being developed by a lot of people who do not really know about development, but for a better developer it would be either easy and the learning curve less steep which is important also for the new young developers entering the computer world. 4. A developer who has many years of experience with Windows and none with Linux surely has more difficulties developing for Linux - but more likely because of the lack of knowledge about the underlying OS. I don't think that the development/developers do hinder from current point of view to do the switch to Linux/Ubuntu - and the developers on the Linux side are very good IMHO. Regarding the main issue (Bug #1): a) Developers matter - no doubt - but developing for Linux is possible right now and there are good tools. But by focusing on Linux development, don't forget that for the next years platform independent development is more important during the transition phase. b) Maybe getting the percentage of Ubuntu/Linux desktops out there in real use up to 50 % is a goal that is easier achieved than getting the vendors to sell machines with Linux preinstalled. I do have currently two brand new laptops with Windows 7 preinstalled (by the vendor). One of them is already an Ubuntu machine, second following. There are so many flavors and installing Linux nowadays is not that difficult that not anybody can do it on his own. So why bother what OS was preinstalled - even if it would have been a Linux distribution, wouldn't I anyway re-install it for new - if it would be just to have it partitioned the way I prefer it? - Of course, if it is cheaper without OS, I buy my hardware without OS (well - I did - others first don't think of the Ubuntu alternative). c) Marketing could be improved, but it is definitely not everything. Word of mouth is slower than marketing, but much a more stable success! - And guess what: The most issues I have with new installations of Ubuntu is because of hardware with non-open source proprietary drivers. Not to blame Canonical or Linux community for this, the shame is on the Vendors or the hardware pieces! And this is a part of the community: To spread the word of what is good and working hardware. Whenever someone asks me what computer to buy, I always recommend a hardware that has very good chances to work smoothly with Ubuntu - even if the person is not going to install Ubuntu on it. I always say them: "Just for the case you will not be satisfied in a year or so with your Windows 7 any more - you should have the option to install Linux". --=20 Martin Wildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 12:49:17 -0000 Message-Id: > Before this degrades to a developer litigation - regarding the developmen= t: > 1. I think there are really enough options for developing under Linux. I think the problem is that there are to many options. > 2. I don't see Visual Studio being sooo good. I used Visual Studio for > more than 10 years and I felt way better after I switched to NetBeans > and Java development. NetBeans is very good for Java developmen, and Java have most of the things i am talking about. The problem is native Linux development. While NetBeans are really good for making Java apps, there are no equal tool to make C/C++ apps. Lazarus is nice Delphi clone for Pascal programming, but it lacks a good database library. Java has its JDBC which is excellent. > 3. It would be good if even every full idiot could use the > libraries/APIs and the IDE. That would include a lot of crap being > developed by a lot of people who do not really know about development, > but for a better developer it would be either easy and the learning > curve less steep which is important also for the new young developers > entering the computer world. Also do not forget that good developers usually was "idiots" when they started. Many good developers started out by making crappy apps in Visual Basic. Without VB they may not have started coding in the first place. > 4. A developer who has many years of experience with Windows and none > with Linux surely has more difficulties developing for Linux - but > more likely because of the lack of knowledge about the underlying OS. > I don't think that the development/developers do hinder from current > point of view to do the switch to Linux/Ubuntu - and the developers on > the Linux side are very good IMHO. There are many good developers for Linux and its true that they don't alway= s need a nice RAD IDE environment. However my point is that without new ama= teur developers the pool of good developers will not grow. =20 _________________________________________________________________ Surfa tryggt med Internet Explorer 8 http://www.microsoft.com/sverige/windows/internet-explorer/default.aspx --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 23:23:44 -0000 Message-Id: On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 14:49, Faldegast wrote: > There are many good developers for Linux and its true that they don't alw= ays need a nice RAD IDE > environment. However my point is that without new amateur developers the = pool of good developers will > not grow. Agree - you convinced me. Gaining developers for Linux is an important poin= t. More developers means more and better quality software. And the appropriate tools help a lot. But I find this point not more important than the others - like marketing and so on. --=20 Martin Wildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 07:06:22 -0000 Message-Id: For Linux Native Development question I started a topic at the forums - for everybody who is interested to follow that: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=3D1482882 --=20 Martin Wildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 11:29:49 -0000 Message-Id: The discussion about developers or marketing is IMHO obsolete as my latest experience shows: I had two potential Windows-to-Linux converts. Typical home users with web, email, writing a few documents/letters + home office. The basic additional requirements for home office environment in these cases is multipage scanning and fax. Didn't either try the fax as already the multipage scanning was not possible in a bug-free way. XSane isn't either capable (tried with two different machines and two different all-in-one printer-scanner-fax devices - see Bug #580249 ) and Simple Scan scans wrong paper size (at least in german environment - see Bug #575432 ). That was the show stopper. Both had XP before and new machine came with Windows 7 and as they need to learn new OS and new Office version(s) I already convinced them to try it with Ubuntu. But they are now (back) on Windows 7 (and there is also a tool like Simple Scan). At least they are going to use Open Office instead of buying an MS Office 2007 license. It was bare luck that the MS Access application I would have had to migrate was bare simple - no coding involved so it could be migrated to Open Office Base (although only through a Windows machine with Open Office installed - so was not really straightforward). So if we have issues like those in Ubuntu these are first to be fixed otherwise it does not really make sense to do big marketing. Indeed it could have a negative effect because too many people might try Ubuntu who have requirements that Ubuntu cannot fulfill. All the advantages of Ubuntu are not interesting, as long as the basic needs of people can't be achieved with Ubuntu/Linux. --=20 Martin Wildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: IDWMaster (webadm) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 18:43:16 -0000 Message-Id: <20100516184317.1735.6934.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Windows and Ubuntu are made for separate purposes, but is there really any = competition between the two? They are both operating systems, but they are = both meant for different purposes. It is also important to keep in mind tha= t Linux is not Windows (mentioned in a previous post on here somewhere). Du= e to problems like the one mentioned above; it may not be suitable for the = individual or business to transition to Ubuntu, or it may not be suitable f= or the business or individual to use Windows. In these cases; it is often q= uite suitable to use both. That way; the person or organization will have a= ccess to the benefits of both products. For example; some people have a Nin= tendo Wii, a Playstation, an XBOX, and a Sega. These are all made by compet= ing companies, but are marketed to different audiences. Therefore; Windows DOES have a majority market share in the consumer market= , BUT Ubuntu has the majority market share in the Developer community. I've even seen a few Microsoft forums which have had Ubuntu support on them, and Microsoft didn't take them down. So the question is; does Microsoft really see Ubuntu as competition, or do they view it as a platform for different purposes? Windows: Commercial operating system (closed-source) Targeted at consumer (and partnered with many major hardware manufacturers) Developers do not have access to kernel, and cannot make modifications to t= he operating system. It lacks a packaging system; which makes it difficult = (both legally difficult and programmatically) to develop software which dep= ends on other operating system components (such as .NET framework) Pre-installed on many consumer PCs Very insecure (prone to viruses, drive-by downloads, and also extremely slo= w!) Customers are forced by social pressure to upgrade to the latest version; c= osting them lots of time and money Ubuntu: Non-commercial operating system (open-source :) Targeted at developer Developers have full access to kernel, and can easily build kernel modules,= applications, and rely on dependencies without worrying about binary compa= tibility or legal issues when using the packaging system to specify depende= ncies. The packaging system is very useful to prevent conflicting programs = from being installed at the same time, provides an easy update mechanism (u= nlike Windows; which requires every program to have its own updating mechan= ism), and it is easy for developers to test and deploy their software to th= e community Not usually pre-installed on consumer PCs, but easily available from many s= ources; such as BitTorrents, HTTP downloads, many universities, etc. Very secure; drive-by-downloads are not possible under the default configur= ation, and all software installations must be approved by entering a sudo p= assword. Security mechanisms are easy to understand and reconfigure. Customers may choose to upgrade when they are ready, and there are long-ter= m support releases available, and community support is very easy to find. U= pgrades do not cost any money, and systems can usually be upgraded to the n= ewest version in less than an hour. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Cariaga (mzc) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 18:56:48 -0000 Message-Id: It never mentioned in the ubuntu.com site that ubuntu os is just for developers..... On May 16, 2010 11:51 AM, "IDWMaster" wrote: Windows and Ubuntu are made for separate purposes, but is there really any competition between the two? They are both operating systems, but they are both meant for different purposes. It is also important to keep in mind that Linux is not Windows (mentioned in a previous post on here somewhere). Due to problems like the one mentioned above; it may not be suitable for the individual or business to transition to Ubuntu, or it may not be suitable for the business or individual to use Windows. In these cases; it is often quite suitable to use both. That way; the person or organization will have access to the benefits of both products. For example; some people have a Nintendo Wii, a Playstation, an XBOX, and a Sega. These are all made by competing companies, but are marketed to different audiences. Therefore; Windows DOES have a majority market share in the consumer market, BUT Ubuntu has the majority market share in the Developer community. I've even seen a few Microsoft forums which have had Ubuntu support on them, and Microsoft didn't take them down. So the question is; does Microsoft really see Ubuntu as competition, or do they view it as a platform for different purposes? Windows: Commercial operating system (closed-source) Targeted at consumer (and partnered with many major hardware manufacturers) Developers do not have access to kernel, and cannot make modifications to the operating system. It lacks a packaging system; which makes it difficult (both legally difficult and programmatically) to develop software which depends on other operating system components (such as .NET framework) Pre-installed on many consumer PCs Very insecure (prone to viruses, drive-by downloads, and also extremely slow!) Customers are forced by social pressure to upgrade to the latest version; costing them lots of time and money Ubuntu: Non-commercial operating system (open-source :) Targeted at developer Developers have full access to kernel, and can easily build kernel modules, applications, and rely on dependencies without worrying about binary compatibility or legal issues when using the packaging system to specify dependencies. The packaging system is very useful to prevent conflicting programs from being installed at the same time, provides an easy update mechanism (unlike Windows; which requires every program to have its own updating mechanism), and it is easy for developers to test and deploy their software to the community Not usually pre-installed on consumer PCs, but easily available from many sources; such as BitTorrents, HTTP downloads, many universities, etc. Very secure; drive-by-downloads are not possible under the default configuration, and all software installations must be approved by entering a sudo password. Security mechanisms are easy to understand and reconfigure. Customers may choose to upgrade when they are ready, and there are long-term support releases available, and community support is very easy to find. Upgrades do not cost any money, and systems can usually be upgraded to the newest version in less than an hour. --=20 Microsoft has a majority market share https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 You received this bug n... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: IDWMaster (webadm) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 19:08:13 -0000 Message-Id: I am in no means saying it is EXCLUSIVELY for developers, I'm just saying=20 that it's more sutable for developers than Windows is. -------------------------------------------------- From: "mzc" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 1:56 PM To: Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share > It never mentioned in the ubuntu.com site that ubuntu os is just for > developers..... > > On May 16, 2010 11:51 AM, "IDWMaster" > wrote: > > Windows and Ubuntu are made for separate purposes, but is there really any > competition between the two? They are both operating systems, but they are > both meant for different purposes. It is also important to keep in mind=20 > that > Linux is not Windows (mentioned in a previous post on here somewhere). Due > to problems like the one mentioned above; it may not be suitable for the > individual or business to transition to Ubuntu, or it may not be suitable > for the business or individual to use Windows. In these cases; it is often > quite suitable to use both. That way; the person or organization will have > access to the benefits of both products. For example; some people have a > Nintendo Wii, a Playstation, an XBOX, and a Sega. These are all made by > competing companies, but are marketed to different audiences. > Therefore; Windows DOES have a majority market share in the consumer=20 > market, > BUT Ubuntu has the majority market share in the Developer community. > > I've even seen a few Microsoft forums which have had Ubuntu support on > them, and Microsoft didn't take them down. So the question is; does > Microsoft really see Ubuntu as competition, or do they view it as a > platform for different purposes? > > Windows: > Commercial operating system (closed-source) > Targeted at consumer (and partnered with many major hardware=20 > manufacturers) > Developers do not have access to kernel, and cannot make modifications to > the operating system. It lacks a packaging system; which makes it=20 > difficult > (both legally difficult and programmatically) to develop software which > depends on other operating system components (such as .NET framework) > Pre-installed on many consumer PCs > Very insecure (prone to viruses, drive-by downloads, and also extremely > slow!) > Customers are forced by social pressure to upgrade to the latest version; > costing them lots of time and money > > Ubuntu: > Non-commercial operating system (open-source :) > Targeted at developer > Developers have full access to kernel, and can easily build kernel=20 > modules, > applications, and rely on dependencies without worrying about binary > compatibility or legal issues when using the packaging system to specify > dependencies. The packaging system is very useful to prevent conflicting > programs from being installed at the same time, provides an easy update > mechanism (unlike Windows; which requires every program to have its own > updating mechanism), and it is easy for developers to test and deploy=20 > their > software to the community > Not usually pre-installed on consumer PCs, but easily available from many > sources; such as BitTorrents, HTTP downloads, many universities, etc. > Very secure; drive-by-downloads are not possible under the default > configuration, and all software installations must be approved by enterin= g=20 > a > sudo password. Security mechanisms are easy to understand and reconfigure. > Customers may choose to upgrade when they are ready, and there are=20 > long-term > support releases available, and community support is very easy to find. > Upgrades do not cost any money, and systems can usually be upgraded to the > newest version in less than an hour. > > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug n... > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In P= rogress > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: New > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry,=20 > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and=20 > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential= ,=20 > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software=20 > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: haydoni (andyhayden1) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 19:46:36 -0000 Message-Id: I'm glad you think that "it's more sutable [sic.] for developers than Windows is." In the software world we need both developers and users, great you think we have one down. You'll entirely wrong in suggesting Ubuntu (linux for human beings) isn't aimed at consumers. Among your other 'misunderstandings', I found "Commerci= al operating system (closed-source)" whereas "Non-commercial operating system (open-source :)" of particular amusement. Either you are trolling or you're horrifically misinformed (I suspect the former, or perhaps both). At any rate, as I think has been mentioned to you before, this discussion would best be continued at www.ubuntuforums.org On 16 May 2010 20:08, IDWMaster wrote: > I am in no means saying it is EXCLUSIVELY for developers, I'm just saying > that it's more sutable for developers than Windows is. > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "mzc" > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 1:56 PM > To: > Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share > > > It never mentioned in the ubuntu.com site that ubuntu os is just for > > developers..... > > > > On May 16, 2010 11:51 AM, "IDWMaster" > > wrote: > > > > Windows and Ubuntu are made for separate purposes, but is there really > any > > competition between the two? They are both operating systems, but they > are > > both meant for different purposes. It is also important to keep in mind > > that > > Linux is not Windows (mentioned in a previous post on here somewhere). > Due > > to problems like the one mentioned above; it may not be suitable for the > > individual or business to transition to Ubuntu, or it may not be suitab= le > > for the business or individual to use Windows. In these cases; it is > often > > quite suitable to use both. That way; the person or organization will > have > > access to the benefits of both products. For example; some people have a > > Nintendo Wii, a Playstation, an XBOX, and a Sega. These are all made by > > competing companies, but are marketed to different audiences. > > Therefore; Windows DOES have a majority market share in the consumer > > market, > > BUT Ubuntu has the majority market share in the Developer community. > > > > I've even seen a few Microsoft forums which have had Ubuntu support on > > them, and Microsoft didn't take them down. So the question is; does > > Microsoft really see Ubuntu as competition, or do they view it as a > > platform for different purposes? > > > > Windows: > > Commercial operating system (closed-source) > > Targeted at consumer (and partnered with many major hardware > > manufacturers) > > Developers do not have access to kernel, and cannot make modifications = to > > the operating system. It lacks a packaging system; which makes it > > difficult > > (both legally difficult and programmatically) to develop software which > > depends on other operating system components (such as .NET framework) > > Pre-installed on many consumer PCs > > Very insecure (prone to viruses, drive-by downloads, and also extremely > > slow!) > > Customers are forced by social pressure to upgrade to the latest versio= n; > > costing them lots of time and money > > > > Ubuntu: > > Non-commercial operating system (open-source :) > > Targeted at developer > > Developers have full access to kernel, and can easily build kernel > > modules, > > applications, and rely on dependencies without worrying about binary > > compatibility or legal issues when using the packaging system to specify > > dependencies. The packaging system is very useful to prevent conflicting > > programs from being installed at the same time, provides an easy update > > mechanism (unlike Windows; which requires every program to have its own > > updating mechanism), and it is easy for developers to test and deploy > > their > > software to the community > > Not usually pre-installed on consumer PCs, but easily available from ma= ny > > sources; such as BitTorrents, HTTP downloads, many universities, etc. > > Very secure; drive-by-downloads are not possible under the default > > configuration, and all software installations must be approved by > entering > > a > > sudo password. Security mechanisms are easy to understand and > reconfigure. > > Customers may choose to upgrade when they are ready, and there are > > long-term > > support releases available, and community support is very easy to find. > > Upgrades do not cost any money, and systems can usually be upgraded to > the > > newest version in less than an hour. > > > > > > -- > > Microsoft has a majority market share > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > You received this bug n... > > > > -- > > Microsoft has a majority market share > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > > of the bug. > > > > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > > Status in Tv-Player: New > > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In= Progress > > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: Confirmed > > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > > Status in openSUSE: New > > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > > > Bug description: > > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full > potential, > > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > > > Steps to repeat: > > > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > > > What happens: > > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > > pre-installed. > > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > > > What should happen: > > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > > Ubuntu. > > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In P= rogress > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: New > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: IDWMaster (webadm) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 20:03:56 -0000 Message-Id: What I mean by commercial is that it is ONLY available through methods of=20 payment (not available for free (as in price)) and by non-commercial I mean= =20 that the software is available for free (as in price, because the goal of=20 non-commercial software is to make a quality product, and not necessarily t= o=20 become rich off of the invention). Ubuntu is designed to make it possible for people to have a quality=20 operating system for BOTH freedom of price and freedom of distribution,=20 freedom of modification, and the freedom to publish modified versions of it= .=20 These are freedoms that Windows does not have, because Microsoft's only goa= l=20 is to make a profit, and not to develop a quality operating system (thus;=20 aimed at a market; as in sold in stores for a high fee). -------------------------------------------------- From: "haydoni" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 2:46 PM To: Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share > I'm glad you think that "it's more sutable [sic.] for developers than > Windows is." In the software world we need both developers and users,=20 > great > you think we have one down. > > You'll entirely wrong in suggesting Ubuntu (linux for human beings) isn't > aimed at consumers. Among your other 'misunderstandings', I found=20 > "Commercial > operating system (closed-source)" whereas "Non-commercial operating system > (open-source :)" of particular amusement. Either you are trolling or=20 > you're > horrifically misinformed (I suspect the former, or perhaps both). > > At any rate, as I think has been mentioned to you before, this discussion > would best be continued at www.ubuntuforums.org > > On 16 May 2010 20:08, IDWMaster wrote: > >> I am in no means saying it is EXCLUSIVELY for developers, I'm just saying >> that it's more sutable for developers than Windows is. >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "mzc" >> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 1:56 PM >> To: >> Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >> >> > It never mentioned in the ubuntu.com site that ubuntu os is just for >> > developers..... >> > >> > On May 16, 2010 11:51 AM, "IDWMaster" >> > wrote: >> > >> > Windows and Ubuntu are made for separate purposes, but is there really >> any >> > competition between the two? They are both operating systems, but they >> are >> > both meant for different purposes. It is also important to keep in mind >> > that >> > Linux is not Windows (mentioned in a previous post on here somewhere). >> Due >> > to problems like the one mentioned above; it may not be suitable for=20 >> > the >> > individual or business to transition to Ubuntu, or it may not be=20 >> > suitable >> > for the business or individual to use Windows. In these cases; it is >> often >> > quite suitable to use both. That way; the person or organization will >> have >> > access to the benefits of both products. For example; some people have= =20 >> > a >> > Nintendo Wii, a Playstation, an XBOX, and a Sega. These are all made by >> > competing companies, but are marketed to different audiences. >> > Therefore; Windows DOES have a majority market share in the consumer >> > market, >> > BUT Ubuntu has the majority market share in the Developer community. >> > >> > I've even seen a few Microsoft forums which have had Ubuntu support on >> > them, and Microsoft didn't take them down. So the question is; does >> > Microsoft really see Ubuntu as competition, or do they view it as a >> > platform for different purposes? >> > >> > Windows: >> > Commercial operating system (closed-source) >> > Targeted at consumer (and partnered with many major hardware >> > manufacturers) >> > Developers do not have access to kernel, and cannot make modifications= =20 >> > to >> > the operating system. It lacks a packaging system; which makes it >> > difficult >> > (both legally difficult and programmatically) to develop software which >> > depends on other operating system components (such as .NET framework) >> > Pre-installed on many consumer PCs >> > Very insecure (prone to viruses, drive-by downloads, and also extremely >> > slow!) >> > Customers are forced by social pressure to upgrade to the latest=20 >> > version; >> > costing them lots of time and money >> > >> > Ubuntu: >> > Non-commercial operating system (open-source :) >> > Targeted at developer >> > Developers have full access to kernel, and can easily build kernel >> > modules, >> > applications, and rely on dependencies without worrying about binary >> > compatibility or legal issues when using the packaging system to=20 >> > specify >> > dependencies. The packaging system is very useful to prevent=20 >> > conflicting >> > programs from being installed at the same time, provides an easy update >> > mechanism (unlike Windows; which requires every program to have its own >> > updating mechanism), and it is easy for developers to test and deploy >> > their >> > software to the community >> > Not usually pre-installed on consumer PCs, but easily available from=20 >> > many >> > sources; such as BitTorrents, HTTP downloads, many universities, etc. >> > Very secure; drive-by-downloads are not possible under the default >> > configuration, and all software installations must be approved by >> entering >> > a >> > sudo password. Security mechanisms are easy to understand and >> reconfigure. >> > Customers may choose to upgrade when they are ready, and there are >> > long-term >> > support releases available, and community support is very easy to find. >> > Upgrades do not cost any money, and systems can usually be upgraded to >> the >> > newest version in less than an hour. >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Microsoft has a majority market share >> > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> > You received this bug n... >> > >> > -- >> > Microsoft has a majority market share >> > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber >> > of the bug. >> > >> > Status in Club Distro: Invalid >> > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >> > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >> > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >> > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >> > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid >> > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >> > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >> > Status in Tv-Player: New >> > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >> > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: I= n Progress >> > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >> > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: Confirmed >> > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> > Status in openSUSE: New >> > Status in Tilix Linux: New >> > >> > Bug description: >> > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC=20 >> > marketplace. >> > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> > >> > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and >> > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full >> potential, >> > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> > >> > Steps to repeat: >> > >> > 1. Visit a local PC store. >> > >> > What happens: >> > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> > pre-installed. >> > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> > >> > What should happen: >> > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software=20 >> > like >> > Ubuntu. >> > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features=20 >> > and >> > benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >> > >> > >> > >> > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >> > >> >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber >> of the bug. >> >> Status in Club Distro: Invalid >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: New >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In = Progress >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: Confirmed >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: New >> Status in Tilix Linux: New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full=20 >> potential, >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like >> Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >> > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In P= rogress > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: New > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry,=20 > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and=20 > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential= ,=20 > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software=20 > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 20:08:31 -0000 Message-Id: On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 21:08, IDWMaster wrot= e: > I am in no means saying it is EXCLUSIVELY for developers, I'm just saying > that it's more sutable for developers than Windows is. Although I think I can imagine, what you think, I can't really agree. If developers in general tend to use Ubuntu (or any other Linux distro) then how should they develop for their main customers: Windows Users? In our company all developers (except me) use Windows because they are developing in .NET for Windows. So this does not fit to the picture you paint. I can use Ubuntu because I am the only Java developer where the idea is to develop in a platform independent way so what I do can finally run on both. A PHP developer could think similar. However, if it would be necessary that I call a certain Windows API from within one of my Java programs, I already get a problem being on Linux. I could solve with a virtual machine, yes, but for me it is already quite annoying startup up the virtual machine for my legacy Windows-only projects. And I would need IDE (plus libraries and configuration) twice. Further I don't want to use an OS that is not capable of serving all (at least) major needs. --=20 Martin Wildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Henry Wertz (hwertz) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 23:17:14 -0000 Message-Id: <20100519231714.10437.11422.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> "I had two potential Windows-to-Linux converts. Typical home users with web, email, writing a few documents/letters + home office. The basic additional requirements for home office environment in these cases is multipage scanning and fax. Didn't either try the fax as already the multipage scanning was not possible in a bug-free way." I hadn't tried faxing either until a week or two ago. It turns out it= works great. Right about when you're like "Oh man is this going to be ghe= tto or what?" It turns out you can just "Print to fax", the fax app pops = up and has you dial the number (or pick of an address list, or I think send= to multiple), you click "next" and it faxes. I'm sure incoming faxes were= easy too. As for the scanner -- that's a shame. However, I've seen scanners goes just as poorly by going from XP to 7 (go from super-fancy to a plain 1-page-at-a-time scanner), and totally die from 98 to 2000, 2000 to XP, XP to Vista (no drivers). It's a fantasy that you can just take random hardware and expect it to 100% work with Windows either. To be clear, I think their decisions to go with Windows in this case was sensible (since the hardware works with it) but this is really not a strong argument against Linux adoption *in general*, as I've found Ubuntu has supported FAAAAAR more hardware for me than Windows ever has. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 00:13:32 -0000 Message-Id: On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 01:17, Henry Wertz wrote: > As for the scanner -- that's a shame. Trara: I yet found another application in the repository - the gscan2pdf - that one works scanning correctly. They should have added that by default and not Simple Scan. So now we have that status that the requirements can be fulfilled with both Linux and Windows. Now everything is under a new light again... - however, XSane and Simple Scan should also do it correctly. --=20 Martin Wildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Manjul Apratim (manzdagratiano) Date: Sun, 23 May 2010 04:10:10 -0000 Message-Id: <20100523041010.15293.16851.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> I have been ardently working towards fixing this bug locally here at Rutgers, NJ. My fianc=C3=A9e was the first one to discard windows for Ubuntu because she clearly noticed the performance difference between windows and Ubuntu in installations having existed parallel for a long time. My future father-in-law was also very impressed with Ubuntu's performance after I salvaged his Asus netbook with Ubuntu post a windows crash. None of us are ever buying a computer pre-installed with Windows, with two new ones from Dell already coming with Ubuntu. My colleagues at work are also gradually switching, considering the lumbering leviathan windows 7 is - seriously, 15 GB for the OS itself??? - and hopefully the word shall propagate outwards throughout starting from the Physics department :D --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Sun, 23 May 2010 12:36:16 -0000 Message-Id: > As for the scanner -- that's a shame. However, I've seen scanners > goes just as poorly by going from XP to 7 (go from super-fancy to a > plain 1-page-at-a-time scanner), and totally die from 98 to 2000, 2000 > to XP, XP to Vista (no drivers). It's a fantasy that you can just take > random hardware and expect it to 100% work with Windows either. To be > clear, I think their decisions to go with Windows in this case was > sensible (since the hardware works with it) but this is really not a > strong argument against Linux adoption *in general*, as I've found > Ubuntu has supported FAAAAAR more hardware for me than Windows ever has. Actually this is a strong argument to use Linux. Hardware that has OSS Linux drivers do work in new versions of Linux. It is very rare that hardware drivers that people are still using is removed from Linux. So yeah if you already have a Scanner that already works in your Windows ve= rsion that stick to that. But when that stops working, look for a scanner t= hat supports Linux without proprietary drivers. Actually look for a printer= that supports Linux, OS X and Windows. Thats always a sing of quality. =20 _________________________________________________________________ V=C3=A5rfina smileys till Messenger h=C3=A4r! http://springpack.msn.se --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sun, 23 May 2010 15:44:24 -0000 Message-Id: On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 14:36, Faldegast wrote: > So yeah if you already have a Scanner that already works in your Windows = version that stick to that. But > when that stops working, look for a scanner that supports Linux without p= roprietary drivers. > Actually look for a printer that supports Linux, OS X and Windows. Thats = always a sing of quality. Well the related Bug of Simple Scan and XSane seems to be independent from Scanner. Because I own one that I looked for Linux compatibility before buying and same effect here. IMHO not a hardware/driver problem. --=20 Martin Wildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alex (presoblu) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 12:02:40 -0000 Message-Id: <20100526120240.5249.9164.malone@soybean.canonical.com> I had to buy a notebook with just one requirement: a flawless ubuntu compatibility. I live in Italy, and 6 years after the filing of this bug, I haven't found a way to match my requirement. I googled everything, visited linlap, asked to the community and chats. No way. Every single notebook I can find in the shops has its own specifics: for instance my Dell Studio 15 can be different from your Dell Studio 15 (video, wireless, webcam). When I read on the internet a review that says "i just installed Lucid on this notebook model no. xxxxx and everything went perfectly", you can be sure that that notebook isn't on the market anymore. Why Canonical can't apply some sticker "tested with Ubuntu 10.04" on compatible systems? Or distribute its own assembled computers, compatibility granted? Or reach an agreement with a brand to sell worldwide a compatible model? Or host on its site a list of all the computers out there (at least those who agree to be tested)? I think that we are focus on minor bugs, losing attention on the #1. I bought a Dell, and have my finger crossed for the day I will try Ubuntu on it: I consider this one as a great defeating, 6 years after the filing of this bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 12:29:33 -0000 Message-Id: On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 14:02, Alex wrote: > I had to buy a notebook with just one requirement: a flawless ubuntu > compatibility. You mean regarding hardware pieces built in? I also have a Dell and I told them before that I need full Linux compatibility - well and I got it (Dell Latitude E-5500). > I live in Italy, and 6 years after the filing of this > bug, I haven't found a way to match my requirement. I heard that in Italy Linux is widely used - however not in my near family (my wife is Italian) - they all use Windows. --=20 Martin Wildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alex (presoblu) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 12:43:13 -0000 Message-Id: If you browse the Dell site, or at least the italian site, you find notebook without an OS only on the "business section". For private users, all their systems have Windows (I can miss something, but I browsed almost all their models". Latitude is one of those sold only to small business, but there's no linux reference on their front page.. maybe searching inside a small business can find more details. Linux is not so common on the shops here, but there is a wide community the same. I think that more or less 1% of our computers has linux installed. In stores, 0% of the notebooks has it. On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 2:29 PM, Martin Wildam wrote: > On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 14:02, Alex wrote: > > I had to buy a notebook with just one requirement: a flawless ubuntu > > compatibility. > > You mean regarding hardware pieces built in? > I also have a Dell and I told them before that I need full Linux > compatibility - well and I got it (Dell Latitude E-5500). > > > > I live in Italy, and 6 years after the filing of this > > bug, I haven't found a way to match my requirement. > > I heard that in Italy Linux is widely used - however not in my near > family (my wife is Italian) - they all use Windows. > > -- > Martin Wildam > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In P= rogress > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: New > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 13:04:19 -0000 Message-Id: On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 14:43, Alex wrote: > If you browse the Dell site, or at least the italian site, you find noteb= ook > without an OS only on the "business section". For private users, all their > systems have Windows (I can miss something, but I browsed almost all their > models". 1. As a private person you can also buy the business models - this is just a logical separation. 2. I can have all those models also without OS if you wish - at that time when I bought the Latitude E-5500, on the website it was offered with Windows only. I just told them that I want it without OS. Also wanted another display (I hate those glossy ones). They are flexible if you talk to them - one reason why I do recommend Dell (second reason is the excellent service - at least here in Austria). > Linux is not so common on the shops here, but there is a wide community t= he > same. I think that more or less 1% of our computers has linux installed. > In stores, 0% of the notebooks has it. I guess, everybody who wants to use Linux is able to put in the distribution of flavor and dump the preinstalled Windows. I already stated earlier that I think, there will be more than 50 % Linux around earlier than offered in the shops. So bug #1 should maybe have another description. --=20 Martin Wildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alex (presoblu) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 13:30:45 -0000 Message-Id: OK, maybe I'm wrong, maybe I can buy the business notebooks too (I'm checking on their site but I can't find the information). But this is something silly, if this is my only option. Maybe there's a way I can order another Dell, but the point doesn't change: if you enter a shop, you find tons of models, but can't be confident on no one of those, for a good ubuntu install. notebooks are sold with tags like ACER 1234 F13-xz2: my ACER 1234 can be different from another ACER 1234. Setting up sites like linlap or http://www.ubuntuhcl.org/, if you can't be 100% sure that you're speaking of the very same notebook, are not useful. About your last guess, I don't agree. A person with a ubuntu cd on his hand can try to put it on his notebook. But if he face problems, he's not supposed to know the way to fix them.. and this happens for the majority of the notebook out there. On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 3:04 PM, Martin Wildam wrote: > On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 14:43, Alex wrote: > > If you browse the Dell site, or at least the italian site, you find > notebook > > without an OS only on the "business section". For private users, all > their > > systems have Windows (I can miss something, but I browsed almost all > their > > models". > > 1. As a private person you can also buy the business models - this is > just a logical separation. > 2. I can have all those models also without OS if you wish - at that > time when I bought the Latitude E-5500, on the website it was offered > with Windows only. I just told them that I want it without OS. Also > wanted another display (I hate those glossy ones). They are flexible > if you talk to them - one reason why I do recommend Dell (second > reason is the excellent service - at least here in Austria). > > > > Linux is not so common on the shops here, but there is a wide community > the > > same. I think that more or less 1% of our computers has linux installed. > > In stores, 0% of the notebooks has it. > > I guess, everybody who wants to use Linux is able to put in the > distribution of flavor and dump the preinstalled Windows. I already > stated earlier that I think, there will be more than 50 % Linux around > earlier than offered in the shops. So bug #1 should maybe have another > description. > > -- > Martin Wildam > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In P= rogress > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: New > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: lelamal (lelamal-deactivatedaccount) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 13:46:42 -0000 Message-Id: <20100526134642.5336.40424.malone@soybean.canonical.com> I'm Italian, and wanted to buy a netbook for my mother. At first, I browsed Dell US Website (don't ask me why), for I thought I could buy it from there and have it shipped. I chose an Inspiron Mini 10, which came nicely with Ubuntu pre-installed (although it was an outdated copy which I had to wipe out anyway). I felt so stupid when, after placing my order, I found out it wasn't possible. So, I set out to see if I could find the same deal on the Italian Website. I searched for the word Ubuntu, and a couple of results came out, among which I could see the netbook I was looking for. But when I clicked on it, I saw that any reference to Ubuntu had disappeared. You could only get it with Windows XP installed, and with no way to customise it. So, even though Dell advertises Ubuntu on their machines, they don't actually keep their word, and their offers force you to pay the Window$ tax nonetheless! You can tell they don't actually care at all about Linux for the way the User Manual is written, too. There's only one mention about Ubuntu regarding the installation of the OS: whilst Windows gets half of the page with detailed guidelines, Ubuntu gets two (!) lines where they suggest to refer to the documents delivered with the computer (are they referring to this manual, or talking to the lucky ones that get Ubuntu pre-installed overseas?). Throughout the rest of the Manual, Ubuntu is not targeted at all, while clear explanations are given about Windows, with graphics and detailed descriptions both for XP and 7. Moreover, all references to diagnostics, troubleshooting, drivers, and various applications that come with the machine imply the installation of a Windows OS, and never take into consideration the possibility that users are really on a a Linux OS (let alone Ubuntu). Last but not least, of course, the hideous Windows sticker and the button on the keyboard: how ugly and useless is that for a Linux user? I read yesterday (can't remember where) a nice comment that said something along the lines of: "the Windows meta key says a lot about producers' attention and care for Linux customers". Alex, you don't say which machine you picked in the end, but if it's an Inspiron Mini all I can tell you is Ubuntu Netbook Edition (Lucid Lynx) works flawlessly on it. The first thing I did, out of revenge, was to wipe out the HD and erase every trace of the OS whose license I was forced to buy. However, my only problem was with the wireless connection, because Ubuntu doesn't ship with pre-installed proprietary drivers, and it's an issue when they're for the Broadcom for you will have to use a wired connection in order to download and activate them. Apart from that, no problem at all compatibility-wise. I do agree with you, though: it's a pity in 2010 we still have to go through Window$ and all these shenanigans to run a Linux distribution. If in order to run Ubuntu my mother has to buy WIndows XP, then the present bug will take decades to be fixed... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alex (presoblu) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 14:03:26 -0000 Message-Id: Well, I was searching for a notebook, not a netbook, so it was even more difficult. At the end I've bought an inspiron 17, "the second on that page", and it will arrive in 15 days. And, you betcha, it has Windows installed. On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 3:46 PM, lelamal wrote: > I'm Italian, and wanted to buy a netbook for my mother. At first, I > browsed Dell US Website (don't ask me why), for I thought I could buy it > from there and have it shipped. I chose an Inspiron Mini 10, which came > nicely with Ubuntu pre-installed (although it was an outdated copy which > I had to wipe out anyway). I felt so stupid when, after placing my > order, I found out it wasn't possible. So, I set out to see if I could > find the same deal on the Italian Website. I searched for the word > Ubuntu, and a couple of results came out, among which I could see the > netbook I was looking for. But when I clicked on it, I saw that any > reference to Ubuntu had disappeared. You could only get it with Windows > XP installed, and with no way to customise it. So, even though Dell > advertises Ubuntu on their machines, they don't actually keep their > word, and their offers force you to pay the Window$ tax nonetheless! > > You can tell they don't actually care at all about Linux for the way the > User Manual is written, too. There's only one mention about Ubuntu > regarding the installation of the OS: whilst Windows gets half of the > page with detailed guidelines, Ubuntu gets two (!) lines where they > suggest to refer to the documents delivered with the computer (are they > referring to this manual, or talking to the lucky ones that get Ubuntu > pre-installed overseas?). Throughout the rest of the Manual, Ubuntu is > not targeted at all, while clear explanations are given about Windows, > with graphics and detailed descriptions both for XP and 7. Moreover, all > references to diagnostics, troubleshooting, drivers, and various > applications that come with the machine imply the installation of a > Windows OS, and never take into consideration the possibility that users > are really on a a Linux OS (let alone Ubuntu). > > Last but not least, of course, the hideous Windows sticker and the > button on the keyboard: how ugly and useless is that for a Linux user? I > read yesterday (can't remember where) a nice comment that said something > along the lines of: "the Windows meta key says a lot about producers' > attention and care for Linux customers". > > Alex, you don't say which machine you picked in the end, but if it's an > Inspiron Mini all I can tell you is Ubuntu Netbook Edition (Lucid Lynx) > works flawlessly on it. The first thing I did, out of revenge, was to > wipe out the HD and erase every trace of the OS whose license I was > forced to buy. However, my only problem was with the wireless > connection, because Ubuntu doesn't ship with pre-installed proprietary > drivers, and it's an issue when they're for the Broadcom for you will > have to use a wired connection in order to download and activate them. > Apart from that, no problem at all compatibility-wise. > > I do agree with you, though: it's a pity in 2010 we still have to go > through Window$ and all these shenanigans to run a Linux distribution. > If in order to run Ubuntu my mother has to buy WIndows XP, then the > present bug will take decades to be fixed... > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In P= rogress > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: New > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 15:56:20 -0000 Message-Id: <1274889380.1798.84.camel@JnS-002-K7> > If in order to run Ubuntu my mother has to buy Windows, then the present bug will take decades to be fixed... Exactly! If we allow M$ to have the luxury of charging us even for licenses that actually never get used (which their own EULA clearly states as a completely valid reason to get a refund, but you get a pretty good idea about their dirty business practices if you try), then it's absolutely impossible to ever starve them! That's why we should at least try to do whatever we can to either completely kill or severely restrict currently employed bundling practices. I've said before I'm fairly confident that once this obstacle is out of the way, we will all be able to notice a significantly higher adoption rates. At that point, all the hardware and software support problems we're having right now will start to diminish, because nobody of the so called "independent" hardware and software vendors can afford to ignore any system that has reached critical mass. Based on the observation of the current status quo, this means only about 10% of the overall market share, which really isn't that much. Have a look at Apple, that's already enjoying pretty much the kind of treatment usually reserved for the first class citizen. We can probably get there pretty soon, because as you see, right now even people who already know about GNU/Linux and could do with just fine don't have much choice. Forget that they can still assemble their own machines - we all know that the vast majority of people don't do that not to mention it's almost impossible with notebooks (let alone increasingly popular netbooks and nettops). Just do the math - if only one of every 10 guys buying a new PC decides to run something other than Winblow$, then M$'s stranglehold over the whole ICT industry is in serious trouble. Everyone has to have the opportunity to get whatever machine he likes and run whatever code he sees fit without first being forced to pay for any software that somebody decided to bundle with it without even the courtesy of asking. We really need to do something about this, because it's most likely the biggest problem we have right now. We can deal with bugs and missing features. Granted - there are things that will probably never work anywhere other than Winblow$, but that's not our fault. But if even people who actually won't use their crap have to pay M$ anyway, making sure they won't even notice they just lost another customer, then we're getting nowhere! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: IDWMaster (webadm) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 01:57:01 -0000 Message-Id: My Samsung N150 works perfectly with Ubuntu (installed 10.04 and upgraded t= o=20 10.10 by modifying sources.list). I installed the Desktop x64 edition off = of a USB flash drive and once installed; the wireless card started working = immediately, and I was able to connect to my wireless network without=20 installing any drivers, and it even had the drivers for the Intel graphics = chip; so Compiz worked right out of the box as well. There are many netbook= s=20 and laptops which work flawlessly (or almost) with Ubuntu. There is even a = nice page on Ubuntu's wiki that has a list of compatible devices and=20 computers, as well as a list of known issues with various devices at=20 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport/ However; note that a lot of the laptop tests are out of date. There's a good page on netbook compatibility at=20 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport/Machines/Netbooks. Hopefully this=20 should help some people find compatible PCs. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Alex" Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 7:02 AM To: Subject: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share > I had to buy a notebook with just one requirement: a flawless ubuntu > compatibility. I live in Italy, and 6 years after the filing of this > bug, I haven't found a way to match my requirement. > > I googled everything, visited linlap, asked to the community and chats. > No way. Every single notebook I can find in the shops has its own > specifics: for instance my Dell Studio 15 can be different from your > Dell Studio 15 (video, wireless, webcam). > > When I read on the internet a review that says "i just installed Lucid > on this notebook model no. xxxxx and everything went perfectly", you can > be sure that that notebook isn't on the market anymore. > > Why Canonical can't apply some sticker "tested with Ubuntu 10.04" on > compatible systems? Or distribute its own assembled computers, > compatibility granted? Or reach an agreement with a brand to sell > worldwide a compatible model? Or host on its site a list of all the > computers out there (at least those who agree to be tested)? > > I think that we are focus on minor bugs, losing attention on the #1. > > I bought a Dell, and have my finger crossed for the day I will try > Ubuntu on it: I consider this one as a great defeating, 6 years after > the filing of this bug. > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In P= rogress > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: New > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry,=20 > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and=20 > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential= ,=20 > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software=20 > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alex (presoblu) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 07:00:08 -0000 Message-Id: see my point? there are a lot of different "samsung N150" ont the market: http://www.kelkoo.it/p-portatili-113501/samsung-n150-19656825 ok, maybe many of those are similar (netbook differ each one lesser than notebook), but.. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 3:57 AM, IDWMaster wrote: > My Samsung N150 works perfectly with Ubuntu (installed 10.04 and upgraded > to > 10.10 by modifying sources.list). I installed the Desktop x64 edition off > of a USB flash drive and once installed; the wireless card started working > immediately, and I was able to connect to my wireless network without > installing any drivers, and it even had the drivers for the Intel graphics > chip; so Compiz worked right out of the box as well. There are many > netbooks > and laptops which work flawlessly (or almost) with Ubuntu. There is even a > nice page on Ubuntu's wiki that has a list of compatible devices and > computers, as well as a list of known issues with various devices at > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport/ > > However; note that a lot of the laptop tests are out of date. > There's a good page on netbook compatibility at > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport/Machines/Netbooks. Hopefully this > should help some people find compatible PCs. > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Alex" > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 7:02 AM > To: > Subject: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share > > > I had to buy a notebook with just one requirement: a flawless ubuntu > > compatibility. I live in Italy, and 6 years after the filing of this > > bug, I haven't found a way to match my requirement. > > > > I googled everything, visited linlap, asked to the community and chats. > > No way. Every single notebook I can find in the shops has its own > > specifics: for instance my Dell Studio 15 can be different from your > > Dell Studio 15 (video, wireless, webcam). > > > > When I read on the internet a review that says "i just installed Lucid > > on this notebook model no. xxxxx and everything went perfectly", you can > > be sure that that notebook isn't on the market anymore. > > > > Why Canonical can't apply some sticker "tested with Ubuntu 10.04" on > > compatible systems? Or distribute its own assembled computers, > > compatibility granted? Or reach an agreement with a brand to sell > > worldwide a compatible model? Or host on its site a list of all the > > computers out there (at least those who agree to be tested)? > > > > I think that we are focus on minor bugs, losing attention on the #1. > > > > I bought a Dell, and have my finger crossed for the day I will try > > Ubuntu on it: I consider this one as a great defeating, 6 years after > > the filing of this bug. > > > > -- > > Microsoft has a majority market share > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > > of the bug. > > > > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > > Status in Tv-Player: New > > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In= Progress > > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: Confirmed > > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > > Status in openSUSE: New > > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > > > Bug description: > > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full > potential, > > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > > > Steps to repeat: > > > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > > > What happens: > > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > > pre-installed. > > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > > > What should happen: > > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > > Ubuntu. > > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: Invalid > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In P= rogress > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: New > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: skybon (skybon-deactivatedaccount-deactivatedaccount) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 19:37:51 -0000 Message-Id: <20100527193753.1600.29131.malone@soybean.canonical.com> Microsoft has also got the majority of office apps market share. OpenOffice.org is now in progress of fixing this bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Cariaga (mzc) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 21:35:53 -0000 Message-Id: Will google apps fall in this category On May 27, 2010 3:47 PM, "Artem Karimov" wrote: Microsoft has also got the majority of office apps market share. OpenOffice.org is now in progress of fixing this bug. ** Changed in: openoffice Status: Invalid =3D> In Progress --=20 Microsoft has a majority market share https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 You received this bug n... Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress Status in Tabuntu: Invalid Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid Status in Tv-Pl... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jerry Masslo II (jegi) Date: Sat, 29 May 2010 04:43:23 -0000 Message-Id: <20100529044324.1993.96158.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Another company have the majority market share of the new pcs. See the stock exchange for the measure. So now the first bug is fixed but only because it has a design bug, imho. Free software isn't only a market, it can make also a market and many too, = but ubuntu or canonical or uncle Mark did not measure. Who can measure his value for the intelligence and communication of the peo= ple, individual and social, with no fee or royalty for the copies or absurd= copies limitations, and the extraordinary open source code? My proposal for a revision of the #1 bug: Ubuntu isn't the most popular os in the Universal Ballot Screen. NOTE It is adaptable for any free os, one os at time with the first bug fixed an= d it loves the majority freedoom share of the community or the community to= ut court. The Universal Ballot Screen is a self-explanatory dream. My two bugs :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Sat, 29 May 2010 11:42:37 -0000 Message-Id: > Another company have the majority market share of the new pcs. See the > stock exchange for the measure. That would be HP if you are talking about hardware. The stock exchange does= not give a measure on a specific product. > So now the first bug is fixed but only because it has a design bug, imho. No. The biggest problem is the long-term market share. Or in other words th= e user share. There Windows still dominate. =20 > Free software isn't only a market, it can make also a market and many too= , but ubuntu or canonical or uncle Mark did not measure. > Who can measure his value for the intelligence and communication of the p= eople, individual and social, with no fee or royalty for the copies or absu= rd copies limitations, and the extraordinary open source code? Here we can clearly see that while Ubuntu does not measure Android does. I have no doubt that Chrome OS will also be strong on the market. Why? Because Google is a big company and when they say "we have a new operating system" the hardware suppliers and market channels line up to be the ones that can put the Google logo on their product. > My proposal for a revision of the #1 bug: >=20 > Ubuntu isn't the most popular os in the Universal Ballot Screen. >=20 >=20 > NOTE > It is adaptable for any free os, one os at time with the first bug fixed = and it loves the majority freedoom share of the community or the community = tout court. The Universal Ballot Screen is a self-explanatory dream. >=20 > My two bugs :) Free does not have to mean non-commercial. People still need support, prior= ity bug-fixes and a nice paper and plastic box with over-designed printing = that gives them the impression of being consumers.=20 We do have several companies that provide this. Mandriva and Xandros is two= examples. However neither of them has been very successful at marketing. =20 _________________________________________________________________ V=C3=A5rfina smileys till Messenger h=C3=A4r! http://springpack.msn.se --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 00:00:48 -0000 Message-Id: <311935.3126.qm@web24106.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Nice to see 3 additions to this page https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuPre-installed Computer Suppliers with pages like these deserve to get a few hits to buoy = up interest http://www.koala.it/ http://www.abacocomputers.com http://www.garlach44.it/index.php http://www.airone-lt.eu/ Nice pages to look at anyway :) Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: skybon (skybon-deactivatedaccount-deactivatedaccount) Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 03:12:09 -0000 Message-Id: <20100604031211.4522.27606.malone@soybean.canonical.com> Still in progress --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jerry Masslo II (jegi) Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 04:44:11 -0000 Message-Id: <4C08849B.4040900@gmail.com> Vorrei discutere in italiano, imho, una sola lingua impedisce=20 discussioni pi=C3=B9 efficaci. Launchpad ha sezioni in italiano? automatic translations: I will discuss in Italian, imho, one language prevents discussions more=20 effective. Launchpad has sections in Italian? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jerry Masslo II (jegi) Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 22:45:52 -0000 Message-Id: <4C098220.10200@gmail.com> Free software isn't only a market, it can make also a market and many too, have you read virgolette nice little ancient market of fuffa store online? virgolette.mp3 french regards :) Faldegast ha scritto: >> Another company have the majority market share of the new pcs. See the >> stock exchange for the measure. >> =20 > That would be HP if you are talking about hardware. The stock exchange do= es not give a measure on a specific product. > > =20 >> So now the first bug is fixed but only because it has a design bug, imho. >> =20 > No. The biggest problem is the long-term market share. Or in other words = the user share. There Windows still dominate. > =20 > =20 >> Free software isn't only a market, it can make also a market and many to= o, but ubuntu or canonical or uncle Mark did not measure. >> Who can measure his value for the intelligence and communication of the = people, individual and social, with no fee or royalty for the copies or abs= urd copies limitations, and the extraordinary open source code? >> =20 > > Here we can clearly see that while Ubuntu does not measure Android does. > I have no doubt that Chrome OS will also be strong on the market. Why? > Because Google is a big company and when they say "we have a new > operating system" the hardware suppliers and market channels line up to > be the ones that can put the Google logo on their product. > > > =20 >> My proposal for a revision of the #1 bug: >> >> Ubuntu isn't the most popular os in the Universal Ballot Screen. >> >> >> NOTE >> It is adaptable for any free os, one os at time with the first bug fixed= and it loves the majority freedoom share of the community or the community= tout court. The Universal Ballot Screen is a self-explanatory dream. >> >> My two bugs :) >> =20 > Free does not have to mean non-commercial. People still need support, pri= ority bug-fixes and a nice paper and plastic box with over-designed printin= g that gives them the impression of being consumers.=20 > We do have several companies that provide this. Mandriva and Xandros is t= wo examples. However neither of them has been very successful at marketing. > =20 > _________________________________________________________________ > V=C3=A5rfina smileys till Messenger h=C3=A4r! > http://springpack.msn.se > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Hodge (hodge) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 04:55:27 -0000 Message-Id: <20100610045527.3848.71529.malone@wampee.canonical.com> This bug is widespread in the UK, and like so many bugs, seems to have mutated and migrated to the Human population. When I wished to purchase a new laptop, I requested Vista be removed, and the price of the OS (and I use the term loosely) discounted from the price of the laptop, that I might install Ubuntu myself. I was informed that it was unwise to install Ubuntu, or any other Linux (pronounced "Lie-nux"), since "most computers are not compatible" and "it's very buggy and difficult to install". Apparently, when it is installed, "lots of things go wrong, and don't work, and it's very difficult to fix". When I argued to the contrary, and informed the salesman that I'd been using computers for 25 years, and Linux (pronounced Linux) was stable, he abruptly turned away, and proceeded to lure an unsuspecting young couple into buying a computer with Windozzze preinstalled. However, conversely, when I wished to by a laptop in Thailand, the machine was clean, and I was asked which operating system I would like pre-installing, and given a wonderfully wide choice of open source OSs, in addition to XP and Vista. When I informed them that a clean computer was fine, and that I would install the OS myself, I was met with a beaming smile. I find this an incredibly worrying and disturbing bug, which seems to be predominant in "the West". Might I suggest we begin by stopping the spread of this bug to other countries, before addressing the root problem of the bug? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:54:55 -0000 Message-Id: Westerners do not want to evolve or learn. This is one of many indications = that western civilizations has now reached their climax and entered into st= agnation. Other civilizations that do evolve will pass us by and the wester= n world will be passed. This is how Rome ended, and how most civilizations = ends. > This bug is widespread in the UK, and like so many bugs, seems to have > mutated and migrated to the Human population. When I wished to purchase > a new laptop, I requested Vista be removed, and the price of the OS (and > I use the term loosely) discounted from the price of the laptop, that I > might install Ubuntu myself. I was informed that it was unwise to > install Ubuntu, or any other Linux (pronounced "Lie-nux"), since "most > computers are not compatible" and "it's very buggy and difficult to > install". Apparently, when it is installed, "lots of things go wrong, > and don't work, and it's very difficult to fix". When I argued to the > contrary, and informed the salesman that I'd been using computers for 25 > years, and Linux (pronounced Linux) was stable, he abruptly turned away, > and proceeded to lure an unsuspecting young couple into buying a > computer with Windozzze preinstalled. >=20 > However, conversely, when I wished to by a laptop in Thailand, the > machine was clean, and I was asked which operating system I would like > pre-installing, and given a wonderfully wide choice of open source OSs, > in addition to XP and Vista. When I informed them that a clean computer > was fine, and that I would install the OS myself, I was met with a > beaming smile. >=20 > I find this an incredibly worrying and disturbing bug, which seems to be > predominant in "the West". Might I suggest we begin by stopping the > spread of this bug to other countries, before addressing the root > problem of the bug? =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail i mobilen p=C3=A5 5 sekunder! http://new.windowslivemobile.msn.com/SE-SE/windows-live-hotmail/default.aspx --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jerry Masslo II (jegi) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 13:23:59 -0000 Message-Id: <4C10E76F.9000908@gmail.com> a link, but in italian, I am a poet, and I don't like much to write in=20 English. http://www.mondoquarto.org/librars/discorsoni/discorsi-collinari/ Faldegast ha scritto: > Westerners do not want to evolve or learn. This is one of many indication= s that western civilizations has now reached their climax and entered into = stagnation. Other civilizations that do evolve will pass us by and the west= ern world will be passed. This is how Rome ended, and how most civilization= s ends. > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jerry Masslo II (jegi) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 13:43:51 -0000 Message-Id: <4C10EC17.5030005@gmail.com> sorry, a mistake with the resend a link, but in italian, I am a poet, and I don't like much to write in English. http://www.mondoquarto.org/librars/discorsoni/discorsi-collinari/ Faldegast ha scritto: > Westerners do not want to evolve or learn. This is one of many indication= s that western civilizations has now reached their climax and entered into = stagnation. Other civilizations that do evolve will pass us by and the west= ern world will be passed. This is how Rome ended, and how most civilization= s ends. > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Cariaga (mzc) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 04:58:54 -0000 Message-Id: <20100622045854.26574.31640.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Dear Ubuntu.com / Canonical admin, The certified hardware section of the site mentions company names like HP, Dell, Toshiba, etc. while missing out companies like System76 that actually sell Ubuntu computers. The current post list only shows certified / compatible models but these companies dont actually sell ubuntu pre-installed. The worst scenario is at least one of its (like HP) peripherals e.g. wifi LAN will not work properly because its firmware is proprietary (only compatible to Microsoft). mz --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 06:38:22 -0000 Message-Id: On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 06:58, mzc wrote: > The worst scenario is at least one of its (like > HP) peripherals e.g. wifi LAN will not work properly because its > firmware is proprietary (only compatible to Microsoft). Indeed - had the WLAN issue with a recent HP! The system76 products look very good. Unfortunately I am in Europe. I wonder why there is ATI - I heard ATI does not work so well - but maybe I heard wrong. I would really like to see more linux vendors listed. --=20 Martin Wildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Stuart (stuart-ward) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 07:29:26 -0000 Message-Id: Perhaps they should list the computers in a similar way as do Naked Computers http://nakedcomputers.org/ -- Stuart Ward M +44 7782325143 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Ahmed Shams (ashams) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 16:48:57 -0000 Message-Id: <20100628164857.5917.95136.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> In Egypt we have the problem that the most of people who use computers are = just using it for Entertaining only, and most of Software and Games are ava= ilable only in Microsoft's package formats, (exe, msi,...etc) Moreover the business users tends to use Microsoft's Office on Microsoft's = Windows, which they became experted in and got used to it. The only hope is to give a powerful alternatives. And that Software being f= ree will do the least. Sincerely, AKShams --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: oussama (obounaim) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 17:57:11 -0000 Message-Id: I agree with Ahmed On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 5:48 PM, Ahmed Khattab Shams < AhmedKhattabShams@gmail.com> wrote: > In Egypt we have the problem that the most of people who use computers are > just using it for Entertaining only, and most of Software and Games are > available only in Microsoft's package formats, (exe, msi,...etc) > Moreover the business users tends to use Microsoft's Office on Microsoft's > Windows, which they became experted in and got used to it. > The only hope is to give a powerful alternatives. And that Software being > free will do the least. > Sincerely, > AKShams > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu 4 > dz, which is a direct subscriber. > > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In P= rogress > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > > --=20 B.Oussama 2 TRC --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 12:42:06 -0000 Message-Id: I actually do not fully agree to the what happens part of the description. I would change it to: 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft software=20 pre-installed. 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu, Mandriva, or any other non-Microsoft s= oftware. What should happen: 1. PC:s for sale should ship with a spectra of different software pre-insta= lled. Microsoft Windows, Ubuntu, Mandriva, OS/2 or whatever would be able t= o exist on an OPEN market. 2. Opens standards should make it easy to switch between operating systems = without sacrificing support for hardware and software.=20 3. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and benefits would be apparent and known by all. 4. Healthy competition shall make the systems and more user friendly as tim= e passes.=20 This is not about free vs. non-free. This is about one dominating company v= s. everything else. One thing that is needed is open standard. Writing an operating system shou= ld not be about writing drivers for hundreds of devises. Standards should e= xists for drivers. Like OSKit or I/O Kit. Hince there should not have to be= Linux drivers, FreeBSD drivers or Windows drivers, just Standard Drivers. = For applications we already have standards, both de jure and de facto. We h= ave Posix, Single Unix and OpenGL. We also have informal platform independe= nt standard libraries like Gnome, Qt, KDE, SQLight and many many other thin= gs that is very portable. OSKit may include a bit to much implementation an= d I/O Kit may have licensing problem. A standard may provide som implementa= tion, but it should be more of a framework that allows developers to plug i= n code that is kernel-specific, such as the IP stack. The optimal solution = would be if compiled kernel modules could be loaded by any kernel that impl= ements the standard, making them as portable as elf executables. Even the functionality within a kernel could be standardized. For example if both FreeBSD and Linux kernels was based on such a standard, it would be easy to make a hybrid kernel, for example a Linux kernel with a FreeBSD scheduler and IP stack. It could as easy as just setting configuration in a common build system. >=20 > Steps to repeat: >=20 > 1. Visit a local PC store. >=20 > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-ins= talled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >=20 > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >=20 >=20 >=20 > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe =20 _________________________________________________________________ Messenger i mobilen p=C3=A5 5 sekunder! http://new.windowslivemobile.msn.com/se-SE/Default.aspx --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 14:45:49 -0000 Message-Id: <499293.95548.qm@web24107.mail.ird.yahoo.com> One problem and a reason why so many people think that Linux is so non-stan= dard is that when (not IF but=C2=A0WHEN) standards are agreed by various in= ternational bodies then MicroSquish goes ahead putting things together the = other way around. Since most people's experience of machines is limited to = desktop usage their perception is that the Windows way IS the "standard" wa= y and that everyone else should conform to that. =C2=A0 I remember as a child doing something similar when "helping" with the laund= ry. When "helping" put a duvet into it's cover i would agree to go up to th= e corner on my side of the cover but would instead immediately go up to the= opposing corner as fast as possible making it very difficult for the other= person to reach a corner without having to mitigate against the total chao= s i had caused. Very childish but i found it hilarious everytime.=C2=A0 Loo= king back i really pity my poor mother.=20 =C2=A0 MicroSquish appears to behave much the same way. It appears to get involved= with setting standards and then works hard against those being able to be = delivered.=C2=A0 Those that do conform to the standards are then seen as "d= ifferent" and "non-standard". =C2=A0 Note that with OpenSource Drivers there is really very little difference be= tween the drivers for the various operating systems and different releases = but each Windows platform (Xp, Vista, Win7) requires very different drivers= . The OpenSource ones can fairly easily be tweaked for Mac and i assume for= BSD too but=C2=A0an XP driver would need a substantial re-write to work wi= th Win7. Also while OpenSource drivers are often tweaked for free by people= interested in getting their own system to work (or helpful people) the pro= prietary ones often need heavy investment and resourcing from the originati= ng company.=20 =C2=A0 So, instead of clever programmers being resourced to develop clever new inn= ovations a lot of times they are being forced to just do re-writes of stuff= that already exists. Their employers being quite scared of them finding ou= t anything useful or interesting or "seeing the big picture". Instead of be= ing treated as Rock-Stars they are often treated with suspicion & contempt = by the very people that are paying their wages. =C2=A0 At least this is the impression i get of the current situation and i think = we have got to do something to change this=C2=A0 otherwise, if we keep maki= ng extremely clever people bitter and resentful then instead of making good= progress we will continue to find ourselves continually held back (at best= ).=20 =C2=A0 If writing viruses is more fun than work then of course people will write t= hem. In linux-land i think most of us do begin to appreciate our developers= a lot more and it is hopefully more fun to write something productive than= writing a virus, which i think is one reason why we see so much developmen= t and so few viruses in linux-land =C2=A0 Regards from Tom :) =C2=A0 PS Hopefully we are doing something to change the demotivating dynamic of t= he Windows-world by helping people move into linux-land --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 16:39:59 -0000 Message-Id: <1278347999.8671.77.camel@JnS-002-C2D> I'm sorry, but you fail to see the bigger picture. > One thing that is needed is open standard. Writing an operating system sh= ould not be about writing drivers for hundreds of devices. Standards should= exists for drivers. Like OSKit or I/O Kit. Hince there should not have to = be Linux drivers, FreeBSD drivers or Windows drivers, just Standard Drivers. I agree that having a standardised driver framework would probably not be a bad thing, but there's another catch - DRIVERS FOR FREE OPERATING SYSTEMS WOULD STILL NEED TO BE FREE! > The optimal solution would be if compiled kernel modules could be loaded = by any kernel that implements the standard, making them as portable as elf = executables. Absolutely no. There's a bunch of damn good reasons why the majority of the free software developers strongly oppose blobs (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_blob and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_hardware_and_FOSS#Problems_with_binar= y_drivers) - for example even if you don't care about freedom (which is, by= the way, what gives you the ability to either fix the problematic module y= ourself or get someone competent to fix it) at all, using blobs means all t= he security and robustness of a vanilla kernel goes instantly out of the wi= ndow (just try fglrx), which means you can simply stick with Windowns and l= iterally save yourself all the trouble. Blobs don't belong in free systems,= period. Keep in mind that if you're not having any problems with them does= n't mean you never will and no one else does and that blob having a bug tra= cker doesn't mean someone actually cares about you. The most optimal soluti= on would be if hardware manufacturers finally realised how to properly coop= erate with free software community and either started writing BSD/GPL/MIT/w= hatever code themselves and submitting it for inclusion in the next release= of the component they wish to support or at least providing complete NDA-f= ree documentation and paying some of that component's developers to write t= hat code for them (because documentation availability alone unfortunately d= oesn't guarantee someone's really gonna bother). Read these articles to get a better idea: * http://airlied.livejournal.com/73115.html * http://airlied.livejournal.com/73337.html --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 20:57:30 -0000 Message-Id: > I'm sorry, but you fail to see the bigger picture. >=20 >=20 > > One thing that is needed is open standard. Writing an operating system = should not be about writing drivers for hundreds of devices. Standards shou= ld exists for drivers. Like OSKit or I/O Kit. Hince there should not have t= o be Linux drivers, FreeBSD drivers or Windows drivers, just Standard Drive= rs. >=20 > I agree that having a standardised driver framework would probably not > be a bad thing, but there's another catch - DRIVERS FOR FREE OPERATING > SYSTEMS WOULD STILL NEED TO BE FREE! That's a whole other issue, but yes. > > The optimal solution would be if compiled kernel modules could be loade= d by any kernel that implements the standard, making them as portable as el= f executables. >=20 > Absolutely no. There's a bunch of damn good reasons why the majority of > the free software developers strongly oppose blobs (see > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_blob and > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_hardware_and_FOSS#Problems_with_bin= ary_drivers) - for example even if you don't care about freedom (which is, = by the way, what gives you the ability to either fix the problematic module= yourself or get someone competent to fix it) at all, using blobs means all= the security and robustness of a vanilla kernel goes instantly out of the = window (just try fglrx), which means you can simply stick with Windowns and= literally save yourself all the trouble. Blobs don't belong in free system= s, period. Keep in mind that if you're not having any problems with them do= esn't mean you never will and no one else does and that blob having a bug t= racker doesn't mean someone actually cares about you. The most optimal solu= tion would be if hardware manufacturers finally realised how to properly co= operate with free software community and either started writing BSD/GPL/MIT= /whatever code themselves and submitting it for inclusion in the next relea= se of the component they wish to support or at least providing complete NDA= -free documentation and paying some of that component's developers to write= that code for them (because documentation availability alone unfortunately= doesn't guarantee someone's really gonna bother). >=20 > Read these articles to get a better idea: >=20 > * http://airlied.livejournal.com/73115.html > * http://airlied.livejournal.com/73337.html I dont see how you get from portable binary drivers to binary blobs. With s= ome hacks binary blobs can be made portable without binary portability, the= fglrx drivers is proof of that. Of course its only portable to platforms t= heir limited framework support, but still its being done. But that's still = a whole different problem. With my suggestion you would be able to for example use the GPL drivers from Linux on FreeBSD or Solaris without recompiling them. If we also would be able to agree on standard for packages and repositories you would also be able to just install the drivers from a common repository. Currently i have machines running forks of the same OSS drivers on Linux and FreeBSD. Sometimes forks can be healthy but not in this case, the only reason for the forks is kernel compatibility. =20 _________________________________________________________________ H=C3=A5ll skr=C3=A4pposten borta med nya Hotmail. Klicka h=C3=A4r! http://explore.live.com/windows-live-hotmail --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 21:39:21 -0000 Message-Id: > One problem and a reason why so many people think that Linux is so non-st= andard is that when (not IF but WHEN) standards are agreed by various inter= national bodies then MicroSquish goes ahead putting things together the oth= er way around. Since most people's experience of machines is limited to des= ktop usage their perception is that the Windows way IS the "standard" way a= nd that everyone else should conform to that. > =20 > I remember as a child doing something similar when "helping" with the lau= ndry. When "helping" put a duvet into it's cover i would agree to go up to = the corner on my side of the cover but would instead immediately go up to t= he opposing corner as fast as possible making it very difficult for the oth= er person to reach a corner without having to mitigate against the total ch= aos i had caused. Very childish but i found it hilarious everytime. Lookin= g back i really pity my poor mother.=20 > =20 > MicroSquish appears to behave much the same way. It appears to get involv= ed with setting standards and then works hard against those being able to b= e delivered. Those that do conform to the standards are then seen as "diff= erent" and "non-standard". > =20 > Note that with OpenSource Drivers there is really very little difference = between the drivers for the various operating systems and different release= s but each Windows platform (Xp, Vista, Win7) requires very different drive= rs. The OpenSource ones can fairly easily be tweaked for Mac and i assume f= or BSD too but an XP driver would need a substantial re-write to work with = Win7. Also while OpenSource drivers are often tweaked for free by people in= terested in getting their own system to work (or helpful people) the propri= etary ones often need heavy investment and resourcing from the originating = company.=20 Then lets go a bit further and make drivers portable between OSS platforms = without any tweaking. The "tweaking" for Mac can be replaced with a small c= ompatibility layer. Yeah windows will be tougher but if we get ReactOS to a= dapt to the standard then they will make a compatibility layer there. They = already use the IP stack from OSKit. The idea is that with a common driver = model a lot of duplicate work can be avoided. We do not really need windows= /Microsoft to be a part of this. The important part is to make OSS easier t= o develop, maintain and use. > So, instead of clever programmers being resourced to develop clever new i= nnovations a lot of times they are being forced to just do re-writes of stu= ff that already exists. Their employers being quite scared of them finding = out anything useful or interesting or "seeing the big picture". Instead of = being treated as Rock-Stars they are often treated with suspicion & contemp= t by the very people that are paying their wages. The people actually paying their wages are we. The problem is the middleman= , which is quite replaceable. I see an obvious solution here... =20 > At least this is the impression i get of the current situation and i thin= k we have got to do something to change this otherwise, if we keep making = extremely clever people bitter and resentful then instead of making good pr= ogress we will continue to find ourselves continually held back (at best). = > If writing viruses is more fun than work then of course people will write= them. In linux-land i think most of us do begin to appreciate our develope= rs a lot more and it is hopefully more fun to write something productive th= an writing a virus, which i think is one reason why we see so much developm= ent and so few viruses in linux-land Yeah. If you wanna do something clever in windows viruses is one of few val= id options. If you wanna do something clever in Linux there are many projec= ts to code on. =20 > Regards from > Tom :) > =20 > PS Hopefully we are doing something to change the demotivating dynamic of= the Windows-world by helping people move into linux-land Don't forget all the other FOSS operating systems... :) =20 _________________________________________________________________ H=C3=A5ll skr=C3=A4pposten borta med nya Hotmail. Klicka h=C3=A4r! http://explore.live.com/windows-live-hotmail --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 22:08:17 -0000 Message-Id: <1278367697.13764.62.camel@JnS-002-C2D> Hi there. > I dont see how you get from portable binary drivers to binary blobs. If you factor in my understanding of the word "blob" (which for me equals "binary (only) drivers", not "free drivers in their pre-compiled form"), then you just answered yourself. > With my suggestion you would be able to for example use the GPL drivers from Linux on FreeBSD or Solaris without recompiling them. If we also would be able to agree on standard for packages and repositories you would also be able to just install the drivers from a common repository. And that's what I agreed would be really cool about this universal driver interface (among other things). Anyway, I've been thinking about this a little more and here's the result: Got a flash drive, external hard drive, memory card reader, PostScript printer or a decent webcam embedded to your laptop (just a few examples from the top of my head)? They all work like a charm right out of the box (and they probably did long before you first decided to try some random free OS), right? That's because all these devices adhere to open standards defining how particular sort of hardware has to behave from the software perspective - both input and output is well defined. They must understand certain commands and be able to at least explain their output to the driver if it's mandatory format isn't already defined within the standard itself. That way every device in the same hardware class becomes just a different hardware implementation of the same concept with SIMPLE GENERIC DRIVERS (one driver to rule them all) and YOU GET A FLAWLESS OUT OF THE BOX SUPPORT FOR YOUR DEVICE. I think that what we really need is to put more pressure on hardware manufacturers to make them move in that direction which combined with your idea would blast all the hardware support M$ likes to brag about so much into oblivion. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 06:55:11 -0000 Message-Id: On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 18:39, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB wrote: > I agree that having a standardised driver framework would probably not > be a bad thing, but there's another catch - DRIVERS FOR FREE OPERATING > SYSTEMS WOULD STILL NEED TO BE FREE! Yes, indeed. >> The optimal solution would be if compiled kernel modules could be loaded= by any kernel that implements the standard, making them as portable as elf= executables. > Absolutely no. There's a bunch of damn good reasons why the majority of > the free software developers strongly oppose blobs Although I can also the advantage of such a "binary kernel plugin" for the hardware vendors (no need for giving out the source code of their drivers which might be part of the huge effort they did when creating the product), I prefer the law of freedom because of the possible threats. If the code is open source, it can be investigated and checked - at least by those who care most about the OS sources. > The most optimal solution would be if hardware manufacturers finally real= ised how to properly cooperate with free software community and either star= ted writing BSD/GPL/MIT/whatever code themselves and submitting it for incl= usion in the next release of the component they wish to support or at least= providing complete NDA-free documentation and paying some of that componen= t's developers to write that code for them (because documentation availabil= ity alone unfortunately doesn't guarantee someone's really gonna bother). Yes, they should. As far as I noticed, Microsoft did not bother in most cases of the hardware drivers. Manufacturers of hardware always needed to do that on their own. For Linux there is a whole community that would like to help building the driver together with the manufacturer but: Supporting Linux anyway needs to deal with an additional OS even if they get helped. For many this is just a matter of cost and so they don't care about Linux. What everybody can do: Just don't buy hardware that is not Linux compatible - even if you are not planning yet to run Linux on it. It might happen sooner as you think. Example: I had 2 cases where people were buying new laptops with Windows 7 on it and apart from being overwhelmed with the changes in 7 (they used XP before) they missed their very old MS Office 97 Professional (they still used that because they never needed more. But the MSO 97 does not run smoothly any more (and BTW already does a lot of wrong stuff on installation by mixing up folders). They didn't consider buying a new MS Office license in their budget. Finally I wiped their machines (another 2 Windows machines in the Microsoft statistic that are ghosts) and put Ubuntu on it. However, I struggled a little with the shitty Hardware - because they did not care about it (assuming everything is fine as Windows 7 runs preinstalled - even if on my net the Windows 7 - maybe only on that hardware - wasn't either able to connect to my WPA2 only WLAN). So they planned to use Windows - for about 2 weeks or so. They should have considered hardware compatibility... --=20 Martin Wildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 11:58:27 -0000 Message-Id: <508453.21932.qm@web24108.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Please can we try to set-up Dual-boot's rather than slash & burn. If people need to return machines it is difficult sometimes but dual-boot gets around the issues --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 17:36:18 -0000 Message-Id: On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 13:58, Tom wrote: > Please can we try to set-up Dual-boot's rather than slash & burn. Why should I waste so much disk space? > If people need to return machines it is difficult sometimes but dual-boot > gets around the issues If a machine is returned it should then get a clean factory image restored, I would say. Oh, I forgot that Windows and his unique machine IDs and that stuff.... But honestly: If a vendor gets a machine back because the Linux is not running smoothly, I don't have any compassion with the vendor, sorry. --=20 Martin Wildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 19:34:11 -0000 Message-Id: > Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 22:08:17 +0000 > From: JnS.002@gmail.com > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > Subject: [Bug 1] Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Hi there. >=20 >=20 > > I dont see how you get from portable binary drivers to binary blobs. >=20 > If you factor in my understanding of the word "blob" (which for me > equals "binary (only) drivers", not "free drivers in their pre-compiled > form"), then you just answered yourself. I still dont see how that becomes an issue in this case. I am not talking about binary only drivers. However even with binary only drivers it would be far better if they worked with more then one operating system. Personally i never use binary only drivers. I maintain many machines using repositories for upgrades, so using something that is not shipped by the distribution is not an option. Stuff like Adobe Flash is ok, if it fails it breaks nothing else. If the ATI drivers fail the screen goes black... > > With my suggestion you would be able to for example use the GPL > drivers from Linux on FreeBSD or Solaris without recompiling them. If we > also would be able to agree on standard for packages and repositories > you would also be able to just install the drivers from a common > repository. >=20 > And that's what I agreed would be really cool about this universal > driver interface (among other things). It is the main thing that i think will make the selection of OS:es about so= mething else then hardware compatibility. =20 > Anyway, I've been thinking about this a little more and here's the > result: > Got a flash drive, external hard drive, memory card reader, PostScript > printer or a decent webcam embedded to your laptop (just a few examples > from the top of my head)? They all work like a charm right out of the > box (and they probably did long before you first decided to try some > random free OS), right? That's because all these devices adhere to open > standards defining how particular sort of hardware has to behave from > the software perspective - both input and output is well defined. They > must understand certain commands and be able to at least explain their > output to the driver if it's mandatory format isn't already defined > within the standard itself. That way every device in the same hardware > class becomes just a different hardware implementation of the same > concept with SIMPLE GENERIC DRIVERS (one driver to rule them all) and > YOU GET A FLAWLESS OUT OF THE BOX SUPPORT FOR YOUR DEVICE. I think that > what we really need is to put more pressure on hardware manufacturers to > make them move in that direction which combined with your idea would > blast all the hardware support M$ likes to brag about so much into > oblivion. For printers then we have the standard CUPS, for which drivers work in a pl= atform-independent way. This is userspace drivers which printer drivers has= traditionally been in *nix. When the printers use PS and can stick with th= e generic CUPS PS driver it is extra beautiful. Flash drives and external hard drives are specified in the USB specificatio= n. This kind of generic interfaces is how everything should work. However e= ven if the USB drive can be used with a generic driver, the USB port itself= is not generic. There is only a few vendors of USB IP designs but still we= need more then one USB driver. I do not really agree that this is flawless. In many cases the binary blobs= have moved to the hardware device, where we do not have any ability to pat= ch it should it contain bugs. PostScript printers is a good example. Some p= rinters have firmware that are quite buggy making them really hard to use. = Had their software been thinner and the main work done in the main system w= e would have an easier job patching it. Sometimes these problems are adress= ed with firmware updates, that potentially can render the device useless. But there are still ways to fix this with generic drivers, and that is to create standards for how simple devices can be made. Here the ATA and SATA standard are a good example. It is based on many subset of commands. For each subsets all commands are mandatory, but suppliers can choose what subsets to implement. Apply this for printers and we cover even the cheap printers that does not have the processing power to run postscript. Putting pressure on hardware manufacturers is a good idea. There should be an OSS compliance list where we could find companies that support open drivers. And that is compliance, not compatibility. I dont care much for hardware suppliers that does not contribute, even if there often are good OSS drivers i feel more comfortable buying something with "Linux" printed on the box... As nerds we have a responsibility here. Its to us people turn when they hav= e computer problems. For the last few years my policy have been that i only= support Linux, i dont answer any Windows questions even if i know them. I = simply reply "I dont use Windows". As a result the amount of time i have to= spend supporting friends and family have decreased dramatically. Most of t= hem switched to Fedora or Ubuntu. I probably dont have to tell you how much= easier it is support these operating systems. =20 _________________________________________________________________ =C3=84r din dator en skvallerbytta? Testa den h=C3=A4r! http://channels.se.msn.com/channelizers/IE_skvallerbyttan.aspx --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 22:57:17 -0000 Message-Id: On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 21:34, Faldegast wrote: > For the last few years my policy have been that i only support Linux, > i dont answer any Windows questions even if i know them. I simply > reply "I dont use Windows". As a result the amount of time i have to spend > supporting friends and family have decreased dramatically. > Most of them switched to Fedora or Ubuntu. I probably dont have to tell y= ou > how much easier it is support these operating systems. Similar experience for me. First less amount of supporting - but now a queue is building because people got the knowledge that I am doing Linux (support) and they come to me with interest to switch. That said, I do have a few issues that cause me a lot of work in Ubuntu either... --=20 Martin Wildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 07:30:54 -0000 Message-Id: <403093.20687.qm@web24106.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi Dual-boots allow the person to change over to linux at their own pace so th= at=20 they resent the new system less. It makes it easier for them to return to = Windows for odd tasks they have not yet learnt how to do in Linux. Some ga= mes=20 and things work better in Windows although some tweaking with Wine can some= times=20 get stuff working in Linux. Also the average user is not going to find it = easy=20 to "get a clean factory image restored". A dual-boot puts the end-user in control and hugely reduces their dependenc= e on=20 you. =20 Also their word-of-mouth stories will reduce other people's anxiety about t= he=20 big switch from Windows to Linux. If people are given the impression that = slash&burn is the only route in then they might be wary about trying it,=20 especially as the slash&burn fiction is part of the FUD that is spread to=20 prevent Linux usage. Undermining FUD seems fairly crucial to getting people= more=20 relaxed about trying Linux. Regards from Tom :)=20 ________________________________ From: Martin Wildam To: TomDavies04@Yahoo.Co.Uk Sent: Tue, 6 July, 2010 18:36:18 Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Microsoft has a majority market share On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 13:58, Tom wrote: > Please can we try to set-up Dual-boot's rather than slash & burn. Why should I waste so much disk space? > If people need to return machines it is difficult sometimes but dual-boot > gets around the issues If a machine is returned it should then get a clean factory image restored, I would say. Oh, I forgot that Windows and his unique machine IDs and that stuff.... But honestly: If a vendor gets a machine back because the Linux is not running smoothly, I don't have any compassion with the vendor, sorry. --=20 Martin Wildam --=20 Microsoft has a majority market share https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber of the bug. Status in Club Distro: Invalid Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress Status in Tabuntu: Invalid Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid Status in Tv-Player: New Status in Ubuntu: In Progress Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Invalid Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed Status in openSUSE: In Progress Status in Tilix Linux: New Bug description: Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrictin= g=20 access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the abi= lity=20 of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. This bug is= =20 widely evident in the PC industry. Steps to repeat: 1. Visit a local PC store. What happens: 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-insta= lled. 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. What should happen: 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like Ub= untu. 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and=20 benefits would be apparent and known by all. 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Randall Ross (randall) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 15:44:18 -0000 Message-Id: <4C34A0D2.1020108@executiv.es> Can we refrain from using the phrase "Linux usage", and from using the words "Linux" and Ubuntu interchangeably? Are people really expected to use a kernel directly? My experience is that dropping the "L" word opens up our favourite operating system to a much wider audience. More thoughts here: http://randall.executiv.es/node/15 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 15:56:07 -0000 Message-Id: On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 09:30, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Dual-boots allow the person to change over to linux at their own pace so = that > they resent the new system less. It might be that people do need Windows later for particular tasks although they already prefer Linux. In any case, a VirtualBox running the Windows is quite always the better solution. It is better for exchanging data back and forth and offers to use both in parallel. The only case where I would say choosing the dual-boot option is best is for a gamer because in the VirtualBox the games might not get enough resources (don't know - just a guess). One advantage of the dual-boot is that you don't need to reinstall Windows on the virtual machine - but you could also try to backup the original installation with CloneZilla and restore it in the virtual machine (however I experienced cases where this did not work due to poor flexibility to hardware change). > Also their word-of-mouth stories will reduce other people's anxiety about= the > big switch from Windows to Linux. =C2=A0If people are given the impressio= n that > slash&burn is the only route in then they might be wary about trying it, I would say a very potential situation for switching to Linux is having XP on an old machine and now need (or want) to buy a new machine. You could keep the old machine (if it is still working) and put Linux on the new one. This is not very different from getting Windows 7 which is also not any familiar to those users. > especially as the slash&burn fiction is part of the FUD that is spread to > prevent Linux usage. Undermining FUD seems fairly crucial to getting peop= le more > relaxed about trying Linux. I don't really agree - for many users it is normal to slash & burn the Windows installation once a year after virus infection. --=20 Martin Wildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Cariaga (mzc) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 16:31:30 -0000 Message-Id: @Randall: I agree that Ubuntu should be made distinct. Users should always remember that "linux" is just the backbone to make Ubuntu or any gnu distributions to work with hardware. It just like saying calling Apple computers as running on "darwin" instead of running on macOS. On Jul 7, 2010 9:06 AM, "Martin Wildam" <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 09:30, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: >> Dual-boots allow the person to change over to linux at their own pace so that >> they resent the new system less. > > It might be that people do need Windows later for particular tasks > although they already prefer Linux. In any case, a VirtualBox running > the Windows is quite always the better solution. It is better for > exchanging data back and forth and offers to use both in parallel. > > The only case where I would say choosing the dual-boot option is best > is for a gamer because in the VirtualBox the games might not get > enough resources (don't know - just a guess). > > One advantage of the dual-boot is that you don't need to reinstall > Windows on the virtual machine - but you could also try to backup the > original installation with CloneZilla and restore it in the virtual > machine (however I experienced cases where this did not work due to > poor flexibility to hardware change). > > >> Also their word-of-mouth stories will reduce other people's anxiety about the >> big switch from Windows to Linux. If people are given the impression that >> slash&burn is the only route in then they might be wary about trying it, > > I would say a very potential situation for switching to Linux is > having XP on an old machine and now need (or want) to buy a new > machine. You could keep the old machine (if it is still working) and > put Linux on the new one. This is not very different from getting > Windows 7 which is also not any familiar to those users. > > >> especially as the slash&burn fiction is part of the FUD that is spread to >> prevent Linux usage. Undermining FUD seems fairly crucial to getting people more >> relaxed about trying Linux. > > I don't really agree - for many users it is normal to slash & burn the > Windows installation once a year after virus infection. > > -- > Martin Wildam > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 16:39:02 -0000 Message-Id: <995347.55187.qm@web24104.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Most Windows users i have stumbled across have no idea about (re)installing= an=20 operating system, whether Windows or gnu&Linux or something else. There are= =20 complexities and choices they are very unlikely to be aware of but may be=20 dismayed that "the right way" was guessed by telepathy. Perhaps your clien= t=20 group is a lot more geeky than the average Windows user. A desperately slow and flaky machine that constantly falls over and perhaps= even=20 gets infected seems to be the norm for Windows machines and often has sligh= tly=20 terrified owners that don't want any change because they will lose all thei= r=20 stuff. If your client group is a little more enlightened then congrats. Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 17:03:25 -0000 Message-Id: > Can we refrain from using the phrase "Linux usage", and from using the > words "Linux" and Ubuntu interchangeably? Are people really expected to > use a kernel directly? >=20 > My experience is that dropping the "L" word opens up our favourite > operating system to a much wider audience. More thoughts here: > http://randall.executiv.es/node/15 So how do we refer to Ubuntu, Fedora, Mandriva and CentOS in one word? I do not use Linux and Ubuntu interchangeably, i use it as a short for "Linux Distribution". Or possibly "GNU/Linux". =20 _________________________________________________________________ =C3=84r din dator en skvallerbytta? Testa den h=C3=A4r! http://channels.se.msn.com/channelizers/IE_skvallerbyttan.aspx --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 17:12:46 -0000 Message-Id: > > Dual-boots allow the person to change over to linux at their own pace s= o that > > they resent the new system less. >=20 > It might be that people do need Windows later for particular tasks > although they already prefer Linux. In any case, a VirtualBox running > the Windows is quite always the better solution. It is better for > exchanging data back and forth and offers to use both in parallel. >=20 > The only case where I would say choosing the dual-boot option is best > is for a gamer because in the VirtualBox the games might not get > enough resources (don't know - just a guess). >=20 > One advantage of the dual-boot is that you don't need to reinstall > Windows on the virtual machine - but you could also try to backup the > original installation with CloneZilla and restore it in the virtual > machine (however I experienced cases where this did not work due to > poor flexibility to hardware change). I totally agree here. Virtualization is best and the exception is when you = need direct access to hardware, such as when the experimental support for O= penGL and DirectX cant handle your application. =20 =20 > > Also their word-of-mouth stories will reduce other people's anxiety abo= ut the > > big switch from Windows to Linux. If people are given the impression t= hat > > slash&burn is the only route in then they might be wary about trying it, >=20 > I would say a very potential situation for switching to Linux is > having XP on an old machine and now need (or want) to buy a new > machine. You could keep the old machine (if it is still working) and > put Linux on the new one. This is not very different from getting > Windows 7 which is also not any familiar to those users. Yes. Actually i finally switched on the desktop last year when my old XP co= mputer died. I have been using Linux on servers since the 90's, but Windows= on the desktop because of the apps that dont run in Linux. > > especially as the slash&burn fiction is part of the FUD that is spread = to > > prevent Linux usage. Undermining FUD seems fairly crucial to getting pe= ople more > > relaxed about trying Linux. >=20 > I don't really agree - for many users it is normal to slash & burn the > Windows installation once a year after virus infection. This is mostly due to incorrect usage of Windows. However stuff like insta= lling a service pack makes XP slower then slipstreaming them and reinstalli= ng. Don't ask me why. =20 _________________________________________________________________ H=C3=A5ll skr=C3=A4pposten borta med nya Hotmail. Klicka h=C3=A4r! http://explore.live.com/windows-live-hotmail --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:55:11 -0000 Message-Id: <20100712085511.22820.19326.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Hi :) Windows Users are not always capable of installing a simple program. From my experiences i would estimate that perhaps 10% or less are capable. However, when they move to a linux system and eventually find a package manager they seem to feel a lot safer and more capable. Windows users that cannot/dare-not install a simple program are unlikely to grok virtualisation and it's superiority over a dual-boot. There are even a lot of linux users that have not really appreciated the benefits of virtualisation yet. Windows is not an easy system to navigate around or back-up. Give an average Windows user a camera, lets say a Kodak camera and let them try to get their photos onto their computer. There are various different packages in Windows that make this easy for them, "Put the CD in the drive and click 'next'" or sometimes just plugin the camera and 'magically stuff just happens'. Now try to find where those photos are kept in the file-system. Another example is when a Windows user sets up lots of templates for a package such as Excel (obviously a fairly advanced user!). Try finding those in the Windows file-system! While you & i may know where those are generally kept it is not intuitively obvious and even tho i know where they are likely to be it is still a pain to dig around the system trying to find all such things even where the Windows user has bothered to let me know they have used a particular device/package in a certain way. As an example, my aunt paid a well-renowned data-recovery service (nothing to do with me) to transfer ALL 'her stuff' from her old machine onto her new one. After a quick flick around her machine was happy that everything had been copied over. She wanted me to find a good home for her old machine but i advised her to hold onto the machine for 3 months and we had an argument because she was 100% certain that everything she wanted had arrived on her new machine. 2 months later i got the inevitable email asking me where all her photos were. Luckily i had not been allowed to touch either her new or old machine so it was clearly not some sabotage on my part. Another example, a company wanted me to reinstall Windows on various ancient old machines with inadequate ram (512Mb didn't cover all packages they typically had open at any one moment, one of which stated clearly that it needed 512 minimum on it's own). They made a big fuss about not copying any files from the machines existing file-system "because everyone saves everything to the server". About a week later i was expected to magically produce all the files that had been stored on the machines. Luckily i was able to do this because i had disobeyed the direct order from my boss and had backed-up the systems on my own machine at work. The result was that i got fired because i had disobeyed direct orders. So, Windows users do not always know where they store everything. Even professional computer services don't always know. Simply copying the contents of their equivalent of "/home" is not adequate for ensuring everything is copied between one install of Windows and a new install of whichever OS (in linux the rsync command is good at even retaining the permissions of the transferred files). Yes, people 'should' use a separate hard-drive or even just a separate partition for storing data but that is incredibly unwieldy in Windows. In linux of course we can just move the /home folder onto a new partition and setup fstab to use it as part of the normal file-system. In Windows you have to hack the registry or put up with constant annoyances with short-cuts (links) that don't quite work reliably. Wiping an existing install of Windows and replacing it with linux ensures that any lost data is seen as a problem created by linux (unfairly but that's the perception). That is one reason we hear FUD about lost data. Of course if Windows is reinstalled and data gets lost then people don't talk about that often because they then feel it shows them up as bad computer-users, also it's difficult for them to understand or express clearly. Blaming linux is easy for them. The simplest work-around when installing linux is to setup a dual-boot (perhaps set grub to a very short time-out so they don't see the menu if you must). Of course Windows does not easily offer this option either. Since the Windows license/product-key can be used twice on the same set of hardware, both with Windows as a dual-boot and with Windows in a virtual machine you could try that but wiping an existing install on a machine where the user doesn't know where all their own data is seems unnecessary. Personally i would avoid installing Windows at all, my aim is to get people using linux, not Windows. Perhaps give it a few months before asking the person whether they still ever use Windows and ask them if any stuff appears to be missing. Otherwise it's just chalk up another person spreading FUD (probably behind your back) about how it is linux that lost data, not their bad usage and certainly not Windows fault for scattering stuff around in obscure places. I feel i should apologise for using the term linux instead of gnu&linux or gnu/linux. It is in common usage though and adding "gnu" to the front seems to persuade people that it is better to stick with Windows because at least no-one objects to saying Windows. Despite the FSF saying that the OSes should be referred to as "gnu divided by linux" (gnu/linux) i feel that it somewhat inaccurate too. It is really "gnu added onto linux" or "gnu with linux" or "gnu and linux". Since Torvald's doesn't make a fuss about such pettiness we get a few people trying to force us to use gnu/linux but really i think we have more important issues to concern ourselves with, such as increasing the percentage of gnu&linux users. Making things unnecessarily complicated is not helping, we have to deal with "what is" rather than the way we would like things to be. Part of this surely has to be to show that we can work with existing systems? (Which is another thing that Windows cannot offer.) Regards from=20 Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 10:42:07 -0000 Message-Id: On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 10:55, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Of course if Windows is reinstalled and data gets lost > then people don't talk about that often because they then feel it shows > them up as bad computer-users, also it's difficult for them to > understand or express clearly. =C2=A0Blaming linux is easy for them. Yes, that's true and if you say, the same would have happened for a clean Windows reinstall, they don't believe you, anyway... > The simplest work-around when installing linux is to setup a dual-boot You could also simply save the data. I guess many of those doing Linux support also have many years of experience with Windows - so you probably know where the data is. I do. And I back that up and then wipe the machine. Prior to this I usually use CloneZilla to create an image. --=20 Martin Wildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 15:47:15 -0000 Message-Id: > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 10:55, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > > Of course if Windows is reinstalled and data gets lost > > then people don't talk about that often because they then feel it shows > > them up as bad computer-users, also it's difficult for them to > > understand or express clearly. Blaming linux is easy for them. >=20 > Yes, that's true and if you say, the same would have happened for a > clean Windows reinstall, they don't believe you, anyway... Thats why you let them try a clean Windows install first. Then when they l= ost data you blame tell them "It would not have happened if the files was s= tored in Linux." =20 > > The simplest work-around when installing linux is to setup a dual-boot >=20 > You could also simply save the data. I guess many of those doing Linux > support also have many years of experience with Windows - so you > probably know where the data is. I do. And I back that up and then > wipe the machine. Prior to this I usually use CloneZilla to create an > image. I usually prefer to just make an archive with rar, 7zip or whatever. Then i= t can easily be extracted to whatever filesystem they are using under /home= /user/olddisk As you never know where all those Windows programs store their data its usu= ally not safe to delete stuff like c:\windows. However it should be safe to= exclude exe and dll files from the backup.=20 =20 _________________________________________________________________ =C3=84r din dator en skvallerbytta? Testa den h=C3=A4r! http://channels.se.msn.com/channelizers/IE_skvallerbyttan.aspx --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:11:09 -0000 Message-Id: <4C3B3E9D.8070000@hal-pc.org> Simple way to slowly convert, and make a user think it is his idea. 1) Windows system breaks, or is painfully slow. Do not have time to fix=20 it, but you can boot a LiveCD and mount the drive so they can do some=20 work until you get a chance to fix it. 2) Later, when they are working OK, come by and state how the Live-CD is=20 actually quite slow, and you still don't have time to rebuild Windows.=20 But you can shrink the partition and install Linux in a dual boot. 3) After a few days of working better than Windows, offer to recover=20 space from that old Windows install. I have done this to a few systems at my company so far. They do not=20 miss Windows. Lee --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:04:46 -0000 Message-Id: <905505.25218.qm@web24108.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Alternatively we could help raise mainstream awareness of options such as=20 Dual-Boot and LiveCd (and with *buntu, Puppy and a rare few others the 'ins= tall=20 inside Windows' option) as all of these are easy ways for non-techies to ke= ep=20 data intact. =20 Regards from Tom :) " ________________________________ From: Faldegast ... Thats why you let them try a clean Windows install first. Then when they l= ost=20 data you blame tell them "It would not have happened if the files was store= d in=20 Linux." > > The simplest work-around when installing linux is to setup a dual-boot >=20 > You could also simply save the data. I guess many of those doing Linux > support also have many years of experience with Windows - so you > probably know where the data is. I do. And I back that up and then > wipe the machine. Prior to this I usually use CloneZilla to create an > image. I usually prefer to just make an archive with rar, 7zip or whatever. Then i= t can=20 easily be extracted to whatever filesystem they are using under=20 /home/user/olddisk As you never know where all those Windows programs store their data its usu= ally=20 not safe to delete stuff like c:\windows. However it should be safe to excl= ude=20 exe and dll files from the backup.=20 " --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: lelamal (lelamal-deactivatedaccount) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 20:55:44 -0000 Message-Id: <20100721205545.22742.7816.malone@palladium.canonical.com> It may be old news, but it always strikes as something unpleasant: http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/windows_or_ubuntu?c= =3Duk&cs=3Dukdhs1&l=3Den&s=3Ddhs "Choose UBUNTU if: You do not plan to use Microsoft WINDOWS". Duh! Really? I would add this pearl to the summary of the present bug, since I suspect it highly contributes to strenghten it by purposefully redirecting potential purchasers to the Micro$lut flock. With such wise and unbiased pearls of wi$dom from Canonical's own partners, I'm afraid this bug can't be helped but to keep widening and spreading... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Cariaga (mzc) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 21:29:03 -0000 Message-Id: @lemalal: that link indeed is a dissapointment, very misleading, and untruthful. On Jul 21, 2010 2:07 PM, "lelamal" <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > It may be old news, but it always strikes as something unpleasant: > http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/windows_or_ubuntu?c= =3Duk&cs=3Dukdhs1&l=3Den&s=3Ddhs > > "Choose UBUNTU if: You do not plan to use Microsoft WINDOWS". Duh! > Really? I would add this pearl to the summary of the present bug, since > I suspect it highly contributes to strenghten it by purposefully > redirecting potential purchasers to the Micro$lut flock. > > With such wise and unbiased pearls of wi$dom from Canonical's own > partners, I'm afraid this bug can't be helped but to keep widening and > spreading... > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 06:02:09 -0000 Message-Id: On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 23:29, mzc <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/windows_or_ubuntu?= c=3Duk&cs=3Dukdhs1&l=3Den&s=3Ddhs Choose Windows "If you are new to computers" - a bad joke. Especially when new to computers and not having to deal with old required Windows stuff, it is easier to use Ubuntu. That said, there are still people sending .doc and .xls files and the like around. This is a virus that has to be stopped also... --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 08:28:31 -0000 Message-Id: > > http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/windows_or_ubunt= u?c=3Duk&cs=3Dukdhs1&l=3Den&s=3Ddhs >=20 > Choose Windows "If you are new to computers" - a bad joke. Especially > when new to computers and not having to deal with old required Windows > stuff, it is easier to use Ubuntu. Yeah. It is exactly those users that should start with ubuntu, before they = get used with Windows. =20 > That said, there are still people sending .doc and .xls files and the > like around. This is a virus that has to be stopped also... This is a bigger problem then Windows market share. Microsoft Office is one= of those things that keeps corporations from switching. Personally I only = toss PDF files around. We have to work harder to get people to stop using p= roprietary formats. =20 _________________________________________________________________ Klicka h=C3=A4r! http://explore.live.com/windows-live-hotmail --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:51:32 -0000 Message-Id: <429499.66104.qm@web24104.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Sadly i often have to set people up with OpenOffice even when AbiWord might= be=20 more appropriate for a client's minimal usage of office packages. This all= ows=20 me to set all the default formats to MicroSquish ones so that they have no = problems sending files to anyone. Pdf is an annoying format as it can be=20 difficult to edit and collaborate but it does have several huge advantages,= =20 especially in cross-platform communications. It is incredibly helpful that OpenOffice works on Windows but there is stil= l=20 some notion that OpenOffice doesn't have the advanced features and so peopl= e=20 often refuse to even try using it even when they never use such features, o= r=20 even they are annoying distractions. Once people have used it for a while = and=20 realise they really can do everything they can imagine needing then it help= s=20 with slow transitions to linux platforms. I think we have to stick with proprietary nasty vulnerable formats rather t= han=20 useful safer formats until OpenOffice reaches the same stage as Firefox has= =20 apparently reached. Since linux Office packages can usually read a wider r= ange=20 of formats we will have no trouble switching to safer formats once Microsqu= ish=20 Office is less than say 50% of the Office market. I think one way to help with this is to set the defaults to ".doc" and ".xl= s"=20 and also to join with users of older versions of MicroSquish Office in dema= nding=20 that ".docx" and ".xlsx" are re-sent as ".doc" or ".xls". While the newest= =20 format is still a minority we have an opportunity to join forces and make a= =20 combined assault using the kind of bad argument that Windows user usually m= ake,=20 that people use formats that everyone can use easily. Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 13:15:05 -0000 Message-Id: <1279890905.8389.81.camel@JnS-002-C2D> > > http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/windows_or_ubuntu > > Choose Windows "If you are new to computers" - a bad joke. Especially w= hen new to computers and not having to deal with old required Windows stuff= , it is easier to use Ubuntu. > Yeah. It is exactly those users that should start with ubuntu, before the= y get used with Windows. Took the words right out of my mouth. > > That said, there are still people sending .doc and .xls files and the l= ike around. This is a virus that has to be stopped also... > This is a bigger problem then Windows market share. Microsoft Office is o= ne of those things that keeps corporations from switching. Personally I onl= y toss PDF files around. We have to work harder to get people to stop using= proprietary formats. Damn right. Did you know that despite of what most of us probably think, the M$ flagship product is actually their Office suite? That's one of the "killer apps" that usually keeps corporate Windown$ users from switching (the others being CAD and DTP as far as I remember). I can confirm this using the experience with my cousin - she was so stuck in her M$ Office ways that the FUD from having to learn something like OpenOffice alone was more than enough to keep her from even considering using Ubuntu. Stupid Windown$ was hammering her WLAN card for no reason like every month or so and she had to keep asking me or her brother to make it work over and over again, but she still wouldn't let us help her switch. The funny thing is that the other day my granddad (hardcore ICT beginner but at the same time a happy user of my ancient K5 desktop running Xubuntu) needed her help with some document he just wrote. She came over, got the job done without any major problems and pretty much got the hang of things in the process. In the end she told him "You know what? It's really easy to use=E2=80=A6 but don't= tell John what I just said!". So afraid of my "I told you so=E2=80=A6" So (bundling restrictions aside), offering a good drop-in replacement for M$ Office will really hammer them! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 13:45:12 -0000 Message-Id: <4C499CE8.7080900@hal-pc.org> On 07/23/2010 08:15 AM, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB wrote: > Damn right. Did you know that despite of what most of us probably think, > the M$ flagship product is actually their Office suite? That is an easy switch, next to Exchange. MS Exchange and Outlook are=20 quite good and hard to match. I know, as I am trying hard. But for=20 office, now is the time. The answer to not wanting to learn something=20 new is "So what will you do with Office 2010?" --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: haydoni (andyhayden1) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 14:04:40 -0000 Message-Id: What seems very strange about Dell's website is the (US/EU) inconsistency of their message. From dell.co.ok/ubuntu. As you've discussed, it's very poor: Clicking on "shop for ubuntu laptops" - doesn't link to any, the comparison webpage is utter rubbish, and Ubuntu isn't even a selectable option for OS (a choice of 5 versions of Windows) when shopping on the dell.co.uk website... From dell.com/ubuntu, it's pretty good: 10 things to know about Ubuntu, the link to buy Ubuntu laptops even works! I can select open-source OS in the list of OSs. And you've probably seen the advert now: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/07/best-advert-for-ubuntu-you-probably.html On 23 July 2010 14:15, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > > > > http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/windows_or_ubuntu > > > Choose Windows "If you are new to computers" - a bad joke. Especially > when new to computers and not having to deal with old required Windows > stuff, it is easier to use Ubuntu. > > Yeah. It is exactly those users that should start with ubuntu, before > they get used with Windows. > > Took the words right out of my mouth. > > > > > That said, there are still people sending .doc and .xls files and the > like around. This is a virus that has to be stopped also... > > This is a bigger problem then Windows market share. Microsoft Office is > one of those things that keeps corporations from switching. Personally I > only toss PDF files around. We have to work harder to get people to stop > using proprietary formats. > > Damn right. Did you know that despite of what most of us probably think, > the M$ flagship product is actually their Office suite? That's one of > the "killer apps" that usually keeps corporate Windown$ users from > switching (the others being CAD and DTP as far as I remember). > I can confirm this using the experience with my cousin - she was so > stuck in her M$ Office ways that the FUD from having to learn something > like OpenOffice alone was more than enough to keep her from even > considering using Ubuntu. Stupid Windown$ was hammering her WLAN card > for no reason like every month or so and she had to keep asking me or > her brother to make it work over and over again, but she still wouldn't > let us help her switch. The funny thing is that the other day my > granddad (hardcore ICT beginner but at the same time a happy user of my > ancient K5 desktop running Xubuntu) needed her help with some document > he just wrote. She came over, got the job done without any major > problems and pretty much got the hang of things in the process. In the > end she told him "You know what? It's really easy to use=E2=80=A6 but don= 't tell > John what I just said!". So afraid of my "I told you so=E2=80=A6" > So (bundling restrictions aside), offering a good drop-in replacement > for M$ Office will really hammer them! > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: lelamal (lelamal-deactivatedaccount) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 15:39:01 -0000 Message-Id: <201007231739.02216.lelamal@alice.it> > From dell.com/ubuntu, it's pretty good: 10 things to know about Ubuntu, Yes. Still, the first thing purchasers read once landed on their Website is= a=20 despicable "Windows=C2=AE . Life without WallsTM . Dell recommends Windows = 7." in=20 bold characters in a strategic position, right below the search field and t= he=20 main menus, and above supportive links. Like screaming to your girlfriend: = "Darling, you know I love you. It's just that I prefer to fuck someone else= ". > the link to buy Ubuntu laptops even works! I can select open-source OS in= =20 the > list of OSs. Not completely. I can see what you mean, most are available, indeed. I've=20 searched for "ubuntu laptop" and "ubuntu", and got a full list of laptops a= nd=20 netbooks showing a humble Ubuntu=C2=AE Linux=C2=AE version 8.10, or, more= frequently,=20 just Ubuntu=C2=AE Linux=C2=AE after a long list of Genuine Windows=C2=AE W= hatevers=C2=AE. But=20 when I select one of the results, and click on Tech Specs, Ubuntu happens t= o=20 disappear magically. And have you actually tried to customise a machine? So= me=20 of those I've tried don't let you choose an OS other than Windows, and they= =20 are: Inspiron (14, and 10), New Inspiron Mini 10 (including 1012 and any=20 variation of the mini series). Others stick to their promise, and they are:= =20 Vostro (1014, 1015, and v13), and Latitute (13 , 2100 and 2110). A good (ha= lf)=20 step forward with respect to the UK (or even Italy), but still... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 18:23:56 -0000 Message-Id: <1279909436.10753.17.camel@JnS-002-C2D> > Yes. Still, the first thing purchasers read once landed on their Website is a despicable "Windows=C2=AE . Life without Walls=E2=84=A2 . Dell recommends Windows 7." in bold characters in a strategic position, right below the search field and the main menus, and above supportive links. Like screaming to your girlfriend: "Darling, you know I love you. It's just that I prefer to fuck someone else". I just hate when so called "Independent Hardware Vendors" do that. It tells you a lot about all the dirty deals they do with M$ behind the scenes. No wonder why we somehow just can't make it no matter how hard we try. And by the way - this 1st class marketing bull$hit calls for one of my favorite quotes: "Who needs Windows and Gates in the world without walls and fences?". That obviously implies using "Windown$=C2=AE" is logically in direct contradiction to "Life without Walls=E2=84=A2", but I seriously doubt that's news to any of you=E2=80=A6 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 21:37:00 -0000 Message-Id: <120299.20352.qm@web24108.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Lets not forget that although the information is bad and misleading it is a= t=20 least getting the name out there into the mainstream from the Dell website. A journey of a thousand miles is not completed by the first step and who sa= ys we=20 are in a hurry anyway? Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Randall Ross (randall) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 23:41:23 -0000 Message-Id: <4C4A28A3.2050403@executiv.es> @Tom We are in a hurry! Do we want our children or their children to have to ship their money to the Monopoly forever? I sure don't. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: lelamal (lelamal-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 08:50:33 -0000 Message-Id: <201007241050.33777.lelamal@alice.it> http://pollycoke.org/pollycokers/paolo/socialbox/6121 Today I found this link in this nice Italian Website. It contains a link th= at=20 sort of fits this exchange nicely. Follow it, and the links within the arti= cle=20 at PC Pro. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 11:22:12 -0000 Message-Id: On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 10:50, lelamal <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > http://pollycoke.org/pollycokers/paolo/socialbox/6121 > Today I found this link in this nice Italian Website. It contains a link = that > sort of fits this exchange nicely. Follow it, and the links within the ar= ticle > at PC Pro. Dell was in the news of making publicity for Ubuntu and from what I have read (mixed with a little interpretation), I would say, that Microsoft threatened them to increase Windows license prices for them. That would make the Dells preloaded with Windows more expensive. So I guess this is why they stopped. However, I will let you know - I am going to buy a Dell within the next month (and I have two Dell Notebooks + a server at a friend bought within the last 1,5 years and none of them ever seen Windows. --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: odyssey (odyssey03) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 11:19:44 -0000 Message-Id: <20100725111944.21453.51336.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> As long as Ubuntu users seem more interested in conspiracy theories than in fixing what's so evidently wrong in Ubuntu, this bug will never be fixed. I leave a couple of hints: - No viable business model: find one before thinking anything else - No standard, stable desktop platform: think how to build one before doing= anything else. And no, LTS releases are not that, in case someone is very = confused. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 11:36:41 -0000 Message-Id: <211116.30994.qm@web24102.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Yes, having choices holds back Ubuntu (and other versions of linux). =20 Just as everyone needs to be told which clothes to wear and what food to ea= t. =20 People don't like to have to decide whether to eat vanilla or chocolate=20 ice-cream so the choices should be removed??=20 Perhaps if there were defaults that were automatic and did not require choi= ce=20 then that might get around the problem? But how to hide the fact of choice= so=20 as to reduce confusion? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 11:54:18 -0000 Message-Id: <56559.49746.qm@web24101.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Business model? We should charge money for a broken system with inherent flaws? Then we ca= n=20 berate users for not buying a newer broken system and force people into buy= ing=20 something else that doesn't work to fix problems introduced by the first th= ing. =20 Blame the user and charge them a lot for fixing it in a way that ensures it= gets=20 broken quickly again. Hmmm, i can see where a business model would lead. Do we really want to go= back=20 there? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: lelamal (lelamal-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 12:05:31 -0000 Message-Id: <201007251405.32548.lelamal@alice.it> > Perhaps if there were defaults that were automatic and did not require > choice then that might get around the problem? But how to hide the fact > of choice so as to reduce confusion? I had a dream: a computer where I wasn't required to make any choice at all= ,=20 not even that of the operating system itself... Oh no, wait, they already invented that shit: it's called Windows. Bugger! = Long live Bug #1! P.S. Can I change the bug status to WON'T FIX? Let's just be honest with=20 ourselves... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 16:50:25 -0000 Message-Id: <4C4C6B51.1010900@hal-pc.org> odyssey wrote: > - No viable business model: find one before thinking anything else I an many other have one, thank you. > - No standard, stable desktop platform: think how to build one before doing anything else. And no, LTS releases are not that, in case someone is very confused. Totally lost me here. Are you saying that Microsoft does not have one?=20 I mean Windwos 7 is much more stable than Vista, if a bit of a memory=20 hog. Mac has a very stable desktop. However, the things underneath=20 change every version, so some instructions have to change as well. Maybe your OS of choice has the same bugs as Linux, but the difference=20 being that you know those bugs. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: James Kuhn (recycler2010) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 17:33:24 -0000 Message-Id: i agree with no doubt that statement is true=3D0 On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 7:19 AM, odyssey <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > As long as Ubuntu users seem more interested in conspiracy theories than > in fixing what's so evidently wrong in Ubuntu, this bug will never be > fixed. > > I leave a couple of hints: > > - No viable business model: find one before thinking anything else > - No standard, stable desktop platform: think how to build one before doi= ng > anything else. And no, LTS releases are not that, in case someone is very > confused. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 18:52:21 -0000 Message-Id: > As long as Ubuntu users seem more interested in conspiracy theories than > in fixing what's so evidently wrong in Ubuntu, this bug will never be > fixed. And what is that? >=20 > I leave a couple of hints: >=20 > - No viable business model: find one before thinking anything else I totally agree here. It is the only thing that Linux/Ubuntu currently lack= s. > - No standard, stable desktop platform: think how to build one before doi= ng anything else. And no, LTS releases are not that, in case someone is ver= y confused. Yes it is a very confusing statement. What exactly does Ubuntu lack as a "s= tandard, stable desktop platform"? =20 _________________________________________________________________ Dela fler filer med nya Hotmail (upp till 10 GB i ett mejl). Klicka h=C3=A4= r! http://explore.live.com/windows-live-hotmail --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Cariaga (mzc) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 19:48:03 -0000 Message-Id: I think there is a business model that exist. If I'm not mistaken it's close to Google's Android OS. Again, canonical takes ownership of marketing. What WE can do is support it, just like how Apple' s Mac fan base. Early adopters like us should continue to promote Ubuntu. On Jul 25, 2010 12:01 PM, "Faldegast" <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > >> As long as Ubuntu users seem more interested in conspiracy theories than >> in fixing what's so evidently wrong in Ubuntu, this bug will never be >> fixed. > And what is that? >> >> I leave a couple of hints: >> >> - No viable business model: find one before thinking anything else > I totally agree here. It is the only thing that Linux/Ubuntu currently lacks. > >> - No standard, stable desktop platform: think how to build one before doing anything else. And no, LTS releases are not that, in case someone is very confused. > Yes it is a very confusing statement. What exactly does Ubuntu lack as a "standard, stable desktop platform"? > > _________________________________________________________________ > Dela fler filer med nya Hotmail (upp till 10 GB i ett mejl). Klicka h=C3= =A4r! > http://explore.live.com/windows-live-hotmail > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Invalid > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Randall Ross (randall) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 20:17:40 -0000 Message-Id: <4C4C9BE4.6060803@executiv.es> The business model can be considered similar to Wikipedia. Global collaboration for the benefit of everyone. The creation of a valuable resource for humanity. Here are some questions for you to consider: Does mathematics have a viable business model? Do you still use it? Is it of benefit to you? Are you paying your licensing fees? ;) Is a business model a pre-requisite for greatness? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 21:25:39 -0000 Message-Id: > I think there is a business model that exist. If I'm not mistaken it's > close to Google's Android OS. Again, canonical takes ownership of > marketing. What WE can do is support it, just like how Apple' s Mac fan > base. Early adopters like us should continue to promote Ubuntu. And that business model is exactly what? Androids business model is Android= Market. As far as i know there are no "Ubuntu Market/Store". And know a we= b store where I can buy a T-skirt doesn't count. I know that Canonical also= has commercial support of Ubuntu in some regions. There is a System -> hel= p in Ubuntu and help menu's in most apps, however i cannot find any info on= commercial support anywhere. Shouldn't it be there somewhere?=20 Apple's business model is different and should be. They are strictly hierar= chal with Jobs at the top making all decisions. Ubuntu is community driven.= Its not just supported by its community but influenced by it. If we dont l= ike something in the OS we can patch it. Apples user cant do that. But yes = in the end its up to canonical to find a working business model. =20 _________________________________________________________________ Messenger i mobilen p=C3=A5 5 sekunder! http://new.windowslivemobile.msn.com/se-SE/Default.aspx --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 21:48:49 -0000 Message-Id: > The business model can be considered similar to Wikipedia. Global > collaboration for the benefit of everyone. The creation of a valuable > resource for humanity. A business model is how to make money. What you state is the goal, not the = business model. In order to promote Ubuntu money is needed, hence is a busi= ness model needed to increase the benefit everyone makes of it. Just the pr= ocess of making it will benefit Ubuntu and Linux because gaining market sha= re has to be a part of a successful business model. =20 _________________________________________________________________ H=C3=A5ll skr=C3=A4pposten borta med nya Hotmail. Klicka h=C3=A4r! http://explore.live.com/windows-live-hotmail --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Randall Ross (randall) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 22:28:48 -0000 Message-Id: <4C4CBAA0.9020005@executiv.es> I've never seen an ad promoting Wikipedia. I've never seen an ad promoting the World Wide Web. Market share can be gained through mind share, which may or may not require money. Some seed money may be needed, but we've got that. > A business model is how to make money. What you state is the goal, not th= e business model. In order to promote Ubuntu money is needed, hence is a bu= siness model needed to increase the benefit everyone makes of it. Just the = process of making it will benefit Ubuntu and Linux because gaining market s= hare has to be a part of a successful business model. > =20 > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:09:50 -0000 Message-Id: <784862.64187.qm@web24103.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Again, this is not true. =20 "In order to promote Ubuntu money is needed" Really?? This really depends on how promotion is approached. =20 There are many ways of promoting something that do not cost money. Also ma= ny=20 businesses run on linux and in the normal course of promoting their own bus= iness=20 they promote linux, sometimes this may have cost them money. Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 07:51:51 -0000 Message-Id: <194580.11346.qm@web24101.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) My sarcasm was noted but the exact point i was trying to make was missed or= =20 subverted. My money would be on subverted. From a Cd/dvd almost every gnu&linux does have a LOT of choices and that mi= ght=20 seem confusing but almost all of them have defaults depending on how you us= e the=20 Cd. 1. With Windows running put an Ubuntu or Puppy Cd in and it asks if you wan= t to=20 install onto the Windows partition. Without making any further choices thi= s=20 would result in a dual-boot with gnu&linux balancing on a Windows partition= . A=20 nice enough and secure enough desktop. 2. Reboot the machine with the Cd in the drive and without making any furth= er=20 choices you land up at a LiveCd session with a more more robust desktop 3. Reboot with Cd in the drive and change from the default option at the fi= rst=20 menu and most gnu&linux will default to installing a proper and extremely r= obust=20 desktop. So, 3 easy ways to say "gimmie linux". Of course most of us are not satisf= ied=20 with defaults and each of us do tweaks and changes that other people would = not=20 bother with. We each land up with a system almost perfect to our needs and= =20 usages but those are very different between one person and the next. Windows gives no choices, you have to deal with constant threats of malware= and=20 are not allowed to do any but the most simple changes to your system. This= =20 would be like a democratic country where there is only 1 party that can be = voted=20 for but you are allowed to choose which colour pen you use to make the vote= . =20 Many people don't vote even in a country where there are only 2 choices wit= h=20 both of those being almost identical. Perhaps we should go back to=20 monarchy/dictatorships?? Freedom FROM choice seems important to people. Regards from Tom :) " > Perhaps if there were defaults that were automatic and did not require > choice then that might get around the problem? But how to hide the fact > of choice so as to reduce confusion? I had a dream: a computer where I wasn't required to make any choice at all= ,=20 not even that of the operating system itself... Oh no, wait, they already invented that shit: it's called Windows. Bugger! = Long live Bug #1! P.S. Can I change the bug status to WON'T FIX? Let's just be honest with=20 ourselves... " --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: odyssey (odyssey03) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:57:34 -0000 Message-Id: <20100726095735.27224.67846.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Promoting Ubuntu is the least of the problems. Money is needed to engineer the system in the fist place. Some people have mentioned Apple and that is a good example. Apple controls and finances OS X because they have a business model to support it. Perhaps that's why OS X is a nice, usable operating system that people actually do want to use and Ubuntu is not. You also may notice that Apple does not release a new version of OS X every 6 months to keep applications "fresh". Maybe they don't need it because they consider each release to be a stable platform that ISVs and IHVs can target? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 10:45:34 -0000 Message-Id: > Again, this is not true. =20 > "In order to promote Ubuntu money is needed" > Really?? This really depends on how promotion is approached. =20 >=20 > There are many ways of promoting something that do not cost money. Also = many=20 > businesses run on linux and in the normal course of promoting their own b= usiness=20 > they promote linux, sometimes this may have cost them money. >=20 > Regards from > Tom :) Money is the scale to which we measure resources. Wheither linux is markede= d individually or as a part of a bundle, marketing the marketing still requ= ires money. If someone sacrifice their own time in order to market Linux then this time= still equals money. How much money does it equal? The value it generates a= mount to what this marketing would cost if you purchased it as a service us= ing the market prices. The cost equals the amount of money you would make i= f you spent your time making money. So you have to ask yourself if your tim= e/money is efficiently used, or if perhaps donations to some organization t= hat promote Linux is more efficient. For examples spending the money you ma= ke on one day on printing a folder about Linux can be far more efficient th= en spending a day marketing Linux yourself. And in my opinion the most efficient way is that we all have careers which is a part of making Linux better or promoting Linux, and optimize this so that we can do maximum contributions to marketing Linux. If this is by donating to some Linux group or invest them strategically in Linux corporations that promote Linux as a part of a business, that is another issue. Personally i do believe that services and products that are based on Linux is the best way to promote Linux. This is how Linux dominates the embedded market and is very big on the server market. Why is Linux not as strong in the desktop market as the embedded and server= markets? Professionals buy components and build a system while end users w= ant a complete system. They want to go to the store, buy a box with Ubuntu,= and have a number to call for support. We that are professionals do not mi= nd downloading and installing, and we do not mind going to Ubuntu home page= and buy support. However this is to complex for average Joe. Therefore I r= eally think that cannonical should team up with ODM and have Ubuntu-branded= desktops and build a reseller network for them. Microsoft do not really do= minate the market. HP, Dell, Lenovo, Apple etc does. Most people do not buy= directly from Microsoft, they buy a "HP" or a "Dell" and that gives them a= complete systems.=20 =20 _________________________________________________________________ Dela fler filer med nya Hotmail (upp till 10 GB i ett mejl). Klicka h=C3=A4= r! http://explore.live.com/windows-live-hotmail --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 11:44:34 -0000 Message-Id: <353661.29746.qm@web24106.mail.ird.yahoo.com> "Time is money" implies=20 =C2=A0 Time =3D (some constant) x money =C2=A0 We already know that velocity =3D time x distance so it would make just as = much=20 sense (cents?) to say that velocity =3D money.=C2=A0 Also my grandma used t= o say that=20 "A stitch in time saves nine".=C2=A0 So logically we can deduce that she mu= st have=20 been saying that "A stitch in money saves nine".=C2=A0 Some people say that= "money is=20 the root of all evil".=C2=A0 So therefore=C2=A0"A stitch in the root of all= evil saves=20 nine"? And of course time (divided by constant) is obviously the root of al= l=20 evil. =C2=A0 How do i value time at work?=C2=A0 If i am fixing some Windows problem and = i happen=20 to mention that linux would not even have the problem in the first place an= d=20 while fixing the Windows problem i chat about how easy it would be to set-u= p a=20 dual-boot then how much is that time worth?=C2=A0 If i am watching tele wit= h the=20 family how do i value that time?=C2=A0 Does that time have greater or lesse= r value=20 than time spent playing frisbee in the park with my son or watching him per= form=20 in a play.=C2=A0 Who do i charge for my time in those cases?=C2=A0 If i do = voluntary work=20 and get no pay is my time worthless or priceless?=C2=A0 If i invite a newsp= aper=20 reporter to report on=C2=A0a story on an event my business is involved in a= nd linux=20 "just happens" to get into the story then who do i charge for that?=C2=A0 W= ho do i=20 pay for random acts of kindness people do for me during the day? =C2=A0 Please, keep your stick on the ice (thanks Landor) Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:47:56 -0000 Message-Id: > "Time is money" implies=20 > =20 > Time =3D (some constant) x money No. It implies: Money =3D Market value x Time. Or that Time=3DMoney/Market value. =20 > We already know that velocity =3D time x distance so it would make just a= s much=20 > sense (cents?) to say that velocity =3D money. =20 Applied in the same context it does, where money=3Dcost/distance x distance= , of course the factor cost/distance that include time can be arbitrary com= plex. > Also my grandma used to say that=20 > "A stitch in time saves nine". So logically we can deduce that she must = have=20 > been saying that "A stitch in money saves nine". No, because "in time" is not synonymous with "time", so you cant replace it. > Some people say that "money is=20 > the root of all evil". So therefore "A stitch in the root of all evil sa= ves=20 > nine"? And of course time (divided by constant) is obviously the root of = all=20 > evil. And obviously neither is money. And time is money is still limited by conte= xt. It specificaly refers to the temporal usage of a limited and quantifiab= le resource. In this case it was further limited to the context of labor, e= ven if it can be used in a slightly wider context. > How do i value time at work? If i am fixing some Windows problem and i h= appen=20 > to mention that linux would not even have the problem in the first place = and=20 > while fixing the Windows problem i chat about how easy it would be to set= -up a=20 > dual-boot then how much is that time worth? Perhaps you also should stay these ease in money. What does it cost them/th= e company to set up dual boot. What does it cost them/the company to not. A= s it is work I suspect that you are spending this time solving problems for= free. > If i am watching tele with the=20 > family how do i value that time? Does that time have greater or lesser v= alue=20 > than time spent playing frisbee in the park with my son or watching him p= erform=20 > in a play. Who do i charge for my time in those cases? You charge yourself of course. What is it worth is for you to decide, but o= bviously its worth enough for you to not sell this time by working. > If i do voluntary work=20 > and get no pay is my time worthless or priceless? What would it cost if you paid someone to do this work? For example if you spend a day serving food to homeless people what is this= worth? If you spent that day working and donated all that money to an orga= nization that hired homeless people to run that operation, what would that = be worth. Both could be considered voluntary work, but the value of each is= quite different. The point is that if you are gonna do voluntary work, it = may be good to do what you do best. However the example above may not be that simple. What if its very relaxing for you to work serving food to the homeless. Then it would be a health improvement, something that is also valuable and could be measured in money. > If i invite a newspaper=20 > reporter to report on a story on an event my business is involved in and = linux=20 > "just happens" to get into the story then who do i charge for that? Who = do i=20 > pay for random acts of kindness people do for me during the day? Just because something is worth money it doesn't mean that someone is willi= ng to pay for it. Especially if you do it before you ask someone to pay for= it. Its value can be compared to product placement and worth a similar amo= unt of money, however is you do it for free that makes that cost land in yo= ur knee. However i think that we are quite off topic now. :) My point is that the Ubuntu/Linux community is worth a lot of money. Much more money then Microsoft. They have 88, 596 employees. As they are not a community buy a corporation they are limited to that. They have have lots and lots of auxiliaries like HP and DELL, but they not a part of Microsoft. How much people do we have? I dont really have an idea but i would guess on A LOT more. Now what do we NOT have? We have people so that's not it. We have a (damn good) operating system, so that's not it. We have a decent support infrastructure so that's not it. No what we do not have is a plan including a strategy and leadership to exe= cute it. And note my usage of singularis here. How do we put Linux side by = side with Windows on the store-shelves? The short answer is that we use all= the reasonless we have at hand. The hundreds of thousends Linux fans that = easily outnumbers Microsoft employees. We also use the infrastructure at ha= nd, the great OS and the support infrastructure.=20 =20 _________________________________________________________________ =C3=84r din dator en skvallerbytta? Testa den h=C3=A4r! http://channels.se.msn.com/channelizers/IE_skvallerbyttan.aspx --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 22:56:31 -0000 Message-Id: On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 13:19, odyssey <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > As long as Ubuntu users seem more interested in conspiracy theories than > in fixing what's so evidently wrong in Ubuntu, this bug will never be > fixed. Unfortunately there are apropriate practics and I have the nose full of the= m. But you are right in the way that there should be the concentration on fixing bugs instead of whining. > I leave a couple of hints: > - No viable business model: find one before thinking anything else I suggest to listen to http://techcast.chariotsolutions.com/index.php?post_id=3D458384 - Open Source does not mean, that there can't be money earned. If you pay license fees the vendor might or might not use it to improve the product. In the Open Source world you pay for actual work and/or service. > - No standard, stable desktop platform: think how to build one before doi= ng anything else. And no, LTS releases are not that, in case someone is ver= y confused. Don't know why you put LTS and desktop platform question into the same pot. The GUI is always something that needs to meet individual preferences. People work differently and for some functionality is more important, for others it is performance of cool style. The idea to have different platforms is not the worst IMHO because I don't think you can serve everybody's needs best with just having one. On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 00:28, Randall Ross (rrnwexec) wrote: > I've never seen an ad promoting Wikipedia. > I've never seen an ad promoting the World Wide Web. > Market share can be gained through mind share, which may or may not > require money. IMHO word of mouth is more important than any publicity. You trust the recommendations of your friends more than any TV spot, poster or whatever. I have customers who start to distrust as soon as you are selling only one product for a particular need because they expect vendor sales talk instead of serious consulting. On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 09:51, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > I had a dream: a computer where I wasn't required to make any choice at a= ll, > not even that of the operating system itself... Choice is creating additional work initially and requires investing more time in the beginning. But then you get the solution that fits your needs better. Or why do you think, that there are different kinds of cars, different types of houses/appartments etc. You could avoid the choice by letting somebody else do the choice for you. That other person could be the hardware vendor by preinstalling a particular OS or it could be a friend of you or your IT service partner or whoever. > Oh no, wait, they already invented that shit: it's called Windows. Bugger! > Long live Bug #1! > P.S. Can I change the bug status to WON'T FIX? Let's just be honest with > ourselves... Sorry, but this is bullshit! --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 10:15:25 -0000 Message-Id: <562053.68947.qm@web24102.mail.ird.yahoo.com> ooops, i hadn't noticed this bit at the bottom =C2=A0 > Oh no, wait, they already invented that shit: it's called Windows. Bugger! > Long live Bug #1! > P.S. Can I change the bug status to WON'T FIX? Let's just be honest with > ourselves... =C2=A0 Now i am really embarrased.=C2=A0 I think it is important to listen when pe= ople have=20 gripes about linux whereas for many of us we are too quick to be defensive = about=20 it.=C2=A0 If people really want the opposite of what is on offer then we sh= ould=20 listen, smile smugly and walk away.=C2=A0 As keeps being pointed out many p= eople new=20 into the linux-world just want a free version of Windows complete with all = it's=20 vulnerable broken systems and "blame the user" mentality.=C2=A0 Just smile = and walk=20 away.=C2=A0 Usually these people change their attitude once they begin to r= ealise the=20 gems on offer.=C2=A0 I did. =C2=A0 Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: lelamal (lelamal-deactivatedaccount) Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 12:39:01 -0000 Message-Id: <201008021439.02456.lelamal@alice.it> On Monday 02 August 2010 12:15:25 you wrote: > > Oh no, wait, they already invented that shit: it's called Windows. > > Bugger! Long live Bug #1! > > P.S. Can I change the bug status to WON'T FIX? Let's just be honest with > > ourselves... I see people keep interpreting it variously, and I'm sure it must be my utt= er=20 lack of communicative skills combined with a poor sense of humor. However, = I=20 will try to rephrase my words: I just meant that freedom of choice, in my view, is fundamental to Linux, a= nd=20 that without choice there's no freedom. Which is a scenario we're all famil= iar=20 with, and is called Windows. If in order to free ourselves from Windows monopoly we restrain our freedom= of=20 choice, we will end up with the same situation, but with a different name f= or=20 the new monopoly chocking our freedom. All in all, unfortunately, I don't think this bug will ever get fixed. It's= =20 true, in my view, that most people feel more comfortable in the restricted = space where the monopoly of the year decides to confine them, rather than=20 wandering in the vast open space of freedom where choices are too abundant = not=20 to feel overwhelmed. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 14:26:33 -0000 Message-Id: <613484.67936.qm@web24108.mail.ird.yahoo.com> What!! A competent (or higher) computer person lacking communication-with-p= eople=20 skills! Surely not! lol. =C2=A0 Yeh, a big +1 from me on all of that :) =C2=A0 Btw i heard there are 10 sorts of people in the world.=C2=A0 Those that can= grok in=20 binary and those that can't. Ciao, and regards from Tom :) =C2=A0 Ps sorry for the old joke there --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 06:11:07 -0000 Message-Id: On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 12:15, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > If people really want the opposite of what is on offer then we should > listen, smile smugly and walk away. As keeps being pointed out many peop= le new > into the linux-world just want a free version of Windows complete with al= l it's > vulnerable broken systems and "blame the user" mentality. Just smile and= walk > away. Usually these people change their attitude once they begin to real= ise the > gems on offer. I did. In my personal case even before I learned to love some of the gems offered by Linux and Ubuntu in particular, I enjoyed the missing flaws I experienced on Windows where - after more than 15 years - I lost confidence to the OS, the Company and the technologies used. On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 14:39, lelamal <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > I just meant that freedom of choice, in my view, is fundamental to Linux,= and > that without choice there's no freedom. Which is a scenario we're all fam= iliar > with, and is called Windows. Having the choice is important at least because apart from personal favors one thing cannot do best in any circumstances. For example: With a fully featured desktop there is less performance and more memory used. Bad for weak workstations. While I am sure that there can be optimization done (I find Gnome getting faster with each new version), you can't get a truck and a roadster all-in-one. > All in all, unfortunately, I don't think this bug will ever get fixed. It= 's > true, in my view, that most people feel more comfortable in the restricted > space where the monopoly of the year decides to confine them, rather than > wandering in the vast open space of freedom where choices are too abundan= t not > to feel overwhelmed. 1. Most people don't have a plain idea of what they are in. They suffer and find it normal. 2. Having the choice means you either have to a) invest more time at the beginning to find out what fits better for your requirements or b) ask a friend what you should use. If you are not willing to invest more time at the beginning (which of course could probably save you tons of time later) and you don't have friends who have walked that path before (moving to Linux), it is logical to stay with what you know. - But: Staying with what you know is not what I experienced with people coming from XP to Windows 7 and Office 97-2003 to Office 2007/2010. Apart from other tools they use, the core things they usually deal with have changed radically. I can see people having less problems getting familiar with Ubuntu and Open Office than getting familiar with Windows 7 and MS Office >=3D2007. That said, Ubuntu and other distributions still also have a long way to go: Yesterday I lost a complete workday by getting Ubuntu 10.04 to work with my docking station - to make it use just (and only) the external monitor. This is something that already worked better with 9.04 and it should work automatically (plenty of people complaining about this issue on various forums, some either downgraded back to 9.10). It is hard to convince people of using Ubuntu instead of Windows when such basics don't work out of the box. But finally: I lost complete workdays on Windows also a few times when something got fu**ed up. I still prefer Ubuntu, but I am a technical guy and can help myself, get into the communities and find solutions. Other users don't have that option (although I don't know anyone using Windows who has not his personal support guy if he is not a techie himself). --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: torpedolos (vvvvvvvvvvvvvv) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 18:55:53 -0000 Message-Id: <20100817185553.12887.74314.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Hello, Excuse-me, but i just had an idea that you must certainly allready think about, but i fell that i have to tell you: Well, let's look at apple, it is getting bigger everyday. One of the "key card" of apple is that they sell software and hardware. They aren't "just" a software-seller. It means that the OS of apple doesn't need to be able to work on every platform, with every proc, every graphic or sound card, etc.... So, it costs less to develop, it's lighter, it works better (as hard and so= ft are designed to work together). Efforts and investments can go to the "user-friendly" aspect. And it works very very well... It also means that, if the "free" OS are getting bigger parts in the marke= t, microsoft, and all the companies who sell only software, might be in big= trouble. But not the one that sells also hardware... So, my question is: What if ubuntu were manufacturing and selling it's own "all-in-one", apple-= like, computers ? Forgive my bad english. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 22:46:26 -0000 Message-Id: On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 20:55, torpedolos <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > It means that the OS of apple doesn't need to be able to work on every > platform, with every proc, every graphic or sound card, etc.... And I want it running on different hardware - desktops, servers, notebooks, netbooks, ... - oh yes, even mobile phones and routers. That said... > So, my question is: > What if ubuntu were manufacturing and selling it's own "all-in-one", appl= e-like, computers ? ...I always have difficulties in recommending hardware for new Linux/Ubuntu users. I am with you partly. I don't think that Canonical should be really enter hardware manufactoring. I think it would be sufficient to have some official recommendations of hardware combinations (maybe which are specifically tested). There could be shops then following the specs and build the appropriate machines and getting some sort of "Ubuntu optimized hardware" or something like this. But there must be at least one recommended combination of each genre - server, desktop, notebook and netbook. --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Randall Ross (randall) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 23:04:03 -0000 Message-Id: <4C6B1563.40600@executiv.es> It's done. Please refer to the official list of hardware. Please direct everyone you know to do the same. http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification/ On 10-08-17 03:46 PM, Martin Wildam wrote: > > I am with you partly. I don't think that Canonical should be really > enter hardware manufactoring. I think it would be sufficient to have > some official recommendations of hardware combinations (maybe which > are specifically tested). There could be shops then following the > specs and build the appropriate machines and getting some sort of > "Ubuntu optimized hardware" or something like this. > > But there must be at least one recommended combination of each genre - > server, desktop, notebook and netbook. > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 23:33:01 -0000 Message-Id: > > It means that the OS of apple doesn't need to be able to work on every > > platform, with every proc, every graphic or sound card, etc.... >=20 > And I want it running on different hardware - desktops, servers, > notebooks, netbooks, ... - oh yes, even mobile phones and routers. >=20 > That said... And i want all the suicide girls as my personal slaves. What is the most important thing, that Ubuntu/Linux grows larger, or that it fills every possible purpose we can think about? The second thing requires the first, so market share is more important. That will give us the resources to build more barracks... i mean features. Also different hardware !=3D every hardware. Supporting a small set of desktops, servers, notebooks and net-books will still qualify as focusing on a more narrow platform. > > So, my question is: > > What if ubuntu were manufacturing and selling it's own "all-in-one", ap= ple-like, computers ? >=20 > ...I always have difficulties in recommending hardware for new > Linux/Ubuntu users. >=20 > I am with you partly. I don't think that Canonical should be really > enter hardware manufactoring. I think it would be sufficient to have > some official recommendations of hardware combinations (maybe which > are specifically tested). There could be shops then following the > specs and build the appropriate machines and getting some sort of > "Ubuntu optimized hardware" or something like this. >=20 > But there must be at least one recommended combination of each genre - > server, desktop, notebook and net-book. I think some kind of certification program is the best way to go, in order to make sure that we have quality hardware and drivers. That combined with an OEM program that lets distributors sell a version of Ubuntu with commercial support included would deliver something that matches the Windows OEM program. Then there also should be central database where all Ubuntu-OEM:ed computers can be searched. And all of them must be certified and have hardware with top quality Linux drivers. Remember that getting Ubuntu on the store-shelves is important for wide adoption. Most people do not buy Windows, they buy "a computer". And they let the salesman at their store tell them what is best for them. Therefor we must have a shiny commersial package that makes the salesman happy, and sells Ubuntu to the customers. A commercial edition combined with proper marketing will get us more users then free downloads ever will. Even if all they really buy is the service of buying "a computer" with pre-installed operating system. Common users do want something that just works. They do not want to assemble their computer or install an operating system. They want to turn it on and start their browser. Most users even buy a computer with Office pre-installed, because they dont want to do it themselves. This is why a pre-installed OEM version will sell and cash in money that can be used to speed up development. We currently have 1% usage share. How fast can we double it? When we reach 5% we are as large as OS X and commercial developers like Adobe will take the platform seriously. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 23:34:52 -0000 Message-Id: On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 01:04, Randall Ross (rrnwexec) wrote: > It's done. > Please refer to the official list of hardware. Please direct everyone > you know to do the same. > http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification/ You are my hero - thanks 1000 times. And now I found the link at the very bottom of http://www.ubuntu.com under Partners. This makes my life much easier! --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Cariaga (mzc) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 01:32:57 -0000 Message-Id: @Randall After reviewing the link. It does not match what system76 is currently offering.... On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 4:04 PM, Randall Ross (rrnwexec) < randall@executiv.es> wrote: > It's done. > Please refer to the official list of hardware. Please direct everyone > you know to do the same. > http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification/ > > > On 10-08-17 03:46 PM, Martin Wildam wrote: > > > > I am with you partly. I don't think that Canonical should be really > > enter hardware manufactoring. I think it would be sufficient to have > > some official recommendations of hardware combinations (maybe which > > are specifically tested). There could be shops then following the > > specs and build the appropriate machines and getting some sort of > > "Ubuntu optimized hardware" or something like this. > > > > But there must be at least one recommended combination of each genre - > > server, desktop, notebook and netbook. > > > > > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Randall Ross (randall) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 01:54:35 -0000 Message-Id: <4C6B3D5B.3020907@executiv.es> @Mark That's true. system76 is likely in a different category. I assume they are in the new "Ubuntu-ready" category which just popped up recently on the certification site. I will be sure to ask them though. Or maybe they'll chime in :) Cheers, Randall. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Cariaga (mzc) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 02:11:38 -0000 Message-Id: Well I guess it's still up to all Ubuntu community members to really promote OEMs and create demand for them. On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 6:54 PM, Randall Ross (rrnwexec) < randall@executiv.es> wrote: > @Mark > That's true. system76 is likely in a different category. I assume they > are in the new "Ubuntu-ready" category which just popped up recently on > the certification site. I will be sure to ask them though. Or maybe > they'll chime in :) > > Cheers, > Randall. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Graham (ubuntu-grahams) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 08:58:15 -0000 Message-Id: <20100818085815.12887.98528.malone@wampee.canonical.com> My Gran always warmed to pot before brewing tea. I have made her tea several times without warming the pot. She never complained about my tea, in fact she said it was quite nice. She saw me doing it once and complained. "But I never warm the pot, Gran" Did she: A. Complain that she always thought there was something wrong with my cups = of tea. B. Decide that warming the pot didn't seem necessary and not do it in futur= e. The moral of the story is: 1. People are funny and not logical. 2. You can't tell someone that something is better and expect them to belie= ve you even if it is glaringly obvious. 3. Crowd mentality and entrenched beliefs are more powerful than logic. Microsoft's time is limited by it's money. Open source software, like mathematics and literature, is always going to b= e there. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 12:30:12 -0000 Message-Id: <4C6BD254.8020507@hal-pc.org> On 08/17/2010 06:46 PM, Martin Wildam wrote: > I am with you partly. I don't think that Canonical should be really > enter hardware manufactoring. I think it would be sufficient to have > some official recommendations of hardware combinations (maybe which > are specifically tested). There could be shops then following the > specs and build the appropriate machines and getting some sort of > "Ubuntu optimized hardware" or something like this. As the list was already mentioned, I will just stick with the shops,=20 like http://www.system76.com http://zareason.com/shop/home.php=20 http://www.dell.com/ubuntu http://laclinux.com/en/Start=20 http://emperorlinux.com/ and http://www.linutop.com/index.en.html . I have purchased a few systems from System76, and was very impressed.=20 But I have Ubuntu on a lot more boxes that started live with Windows on=20 them. A nice website that stays fairly current is http://linuxpreloaded.com/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 12:47:53 -0000 Message-Id: <4C6BD679.8050106@hal-pc.org> On 08/17/2010 10:11 PM, mzc wrote: > Well I guess it's still up to all Ubuntu community members to really prom= ote > OEMs and create demand for them. And support them. Next to me right now I have 2 fully loaded Eland Pro=20 systems with 10 hot plug drives, and 3ware raid. Very well built boxes,=20 and I used to work for Compaq... Airflow design is amazing. If anyone=20 is wondering, the servers are true "enterprise class" systems. And on the laptop, I was trying to build a Lemur Ultra thin with SSD,=20 but didn't need a lot of space. I asked them if they could build one=20 with the 40 gig SSD. One week later it is on the web page. I am=20 submitting a PO for the new Lemur this week. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 14:48:03 -0000 Message-Id: <768119.84750.qm@web24101.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) I think the idea about Cannonical selling hardware with Ubuntu tailored to = it is=20 not such a bad idea. There seems to be a gap in the market at local level.= =20 Dell and others sell machines with Ubuntu pre-installed and there are a lot= of=20 Dell machines being sold in computer shops locally but sadly none of the Ub= untu=20 Dells are on display and the sales staff are clueless. Perhaps getting a=20 smaller distributor /OEM might make a difference? Perhaps getting a local = shop=20 to have a specialty section or something might help? =20 The original suggestion from Torpedolos seemed based on a few widespread=20 mis-conceptions. Apple is growing but Ubuntu is almost certainly growing f= aster=20 but is starting from a smaller market share. Apple are highly visible and = spend=20 a fortune on PR and advertising. Ubuntu just gets on mostly by word-of-mou= th. =20 I doubt Apple costs less to develop as a lot of Ubuntu is developed for fre= e,=20 certainly a lot of the bug-squad work for free. Do we really know if Apple= 's OS=20 is lighter and faster than Ubuntu? I have found installing Ubuntu on diffe= rent=20 machines makes Ubuntu look and feel quite different, especially on machines= that=20 have bluetooth devices or wireless or both. Sure there are usually 1 or 2 = things that need to be tweaked but usually on almost all hardware it seems = to=20 set-up just fine. Out of 4 recent machines 2 didn't need any tweaking to g= et=20 hardware working although i swapped the window buttons back to the Windows = side=20 rather than the Mac side. 1 machine needed to have "cheese" installed but = then=20 intgrated the web-cam into all appropriate apps without any further agro. = Just=20 my own home-machine happens to be awkward with 10.04 for some reason but wa= s/is=20 fine with 9.04. Oh and i never have been good at setting up network printe= rs on=20 any OS. Still there is clearly a big gap there in local stores. Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 16:23:30 -0000 Message-Id: > I think the idea about Cannonical selling hardware with Ubuntu tailored t= o it is=20 > not such a bad idea. There seems to be a gap in the market at local leve= l. =20 > Dell and others sell machines with Ubuntu pre-installed and there are a l= ot of=20 > Dell machines being sold in computer shops locally but sadly none of the = Ubuntu=20 > Dells are on display and the sales staff are clueless. Perhaps getting a= =20 > smaller distributor /OEM might make a difference? Perhaps getting a loca= l shop=20 > to have a specialty section or something might help? =20 That's my point. An OEM program will be able to sway a lot of the small loc= al stores into the fold. It will perhaps even make it possible for us Linux= nerd to start stores that sell Linux computers. Sing upp OEM:s perhaps cit= y by city. Then start advertising Ubuntu-based computers together with loca= lized information on where to buy them. There should be multiple levels of = distributors that takes care of the larger issues. Perhaps continental dist= ributors that coordinates everything on a continent, then smaller district = down to city/town. That's a bit feudal, but a quite proven system. > The original suggestion from Torpedolos seemed based on a few widespread = > mis-conceptions. Apple is growing but Ubuntu is almost certainly growing= faster=20 > but is starting from a smaller market share. Apple are highly visible an= d spend=20 > a fortune on PR and advertising. Ubuntu just gets on mostly by word-of-m= outh. =20 Currently neiter seam to be growing, the curves are quite flattened. If Ubu= ntu is growing its at the cost of other distributions which is not really w= in. We wanna get users to leave the Windows platform. What Linux distributi= on they run is not as important. When Linux has 91% usage share we can star= t thinking about that. > I doubt Apple costs less to develop as a lot of Ubuntu is developed for f= ree,=20 > certainly a lot of the bug-squad work for free. Do we really know if App= le's OS=20 > is lighter and faster than Ubuntu? I have found installing Ubuntu on dif= ferent=20 > machines makes Ubuntu look and feel quite different, especially on machin= es that=20 > have bluetooth devices or wireless or both. Sure there are usually 1 or = 2=20 > things that need to be tweaked but usually on almost all hardware it seem= s to=20 > set-up just fine. Out of 4 recent machines 2 didn't need any tweaking to= get=20 > hardware working although i swapped the window buttons back to the Window= s side=20 > rather than the Mac side. 1 machine needed to have "cheese" installed bu= t then=20 > intgrated the web-cam into all appropriate apps without any further agro.= Just=20 > my own home-machine happens to be awkward with 10.04 for some reason but = was/is=20 > fine with 9.04. Oh and i never have been good at setting up network prin= ters on=20 > any OS. Supporting hardware IS expensive. Personally i think we should have a certi= fication program and work with hardware producers that are friendly to Linu= x. Hardware that has Windows-only drivers and does not have full documentat= ion for our kernel developers can go *censored*. Why should we even look at= their products. The only exception is when we have no choice. However for = stuff like network cards and sound cards we do have a choice. We also have = a choice for motherboards. Do they want to put the Ubuntu or Linux trademar= k on their boxes or not? There are millions of Linux users. If we start to = buy only certified hardware with a friendly logotype on their box, then the= y will care.=20 >=20 > Still there is clearly a big gap there in local stores. That's what we need to fix. That's why a supported and commercial OEM versi= on is so important. Combine a hardware certification program like the one M= icrosoft have, a partner (reseller) program like the one Microsoft have AND= phone support, like Ubuntu have as an extra service. Put all that in one b= ox and sell it with computers an Ubuntu will EAT market shares. Also take a= look at Mandriva's commercial Linux distribution, and how it comes packed = with graphics drivers, codecs and DVD support. The only areas that OSS curr= ently does not cover. Canonical also sell this as an extra service, but use= rs want it out of the box. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Cariaga (mzc) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 16:47:14 -0000 Message-Id: Computer stores are usually tied up with Microsoft in their sales/discount. It boils up to risks presented to stores such as if they sell Linux they may lose their "discount/promo" from Microsoft. Will the demand for other platforms counter this risk? I don't know. It will take a big technology company to push something just like what Google did with nexus one to push Android and create the buzz. On Aug 18, 2010 9:31 AM, "Faldegast" <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > >> I think the idea about Cannonical selling hardware with Ubuntu tailored to it is >> not such a bad idea. There seems to be a gap in the market at local level. >> Dell and others sell machines with Ubuntu pre-installed and there are a lot of >> Dell machines being sold in computer shops locally but sadly none of the Ubuntu >> Dells are on display and the sales staff are clueless. Perhaps getting a >> smaller distributor /OEM might make a difference? Perhaps getting a local shop >> to have a specialty section or something might help? > That's my point. An OEM program will be able to sway a lot of the small local stores into the fold. It will perhaps even make it possible for us Linux nerd to start stores that sell Linux computers. Sing upp OEM:s perhaps city by city. Then start advertising Ubuntu-based computers together with localized information on where to buy them. There should be multiple levels of distributors that takes care of the larger issues. Perhaps continental distributors that coordinates everything on a continent, then smaller district down to city/town. That's a bit feudal, but a quite proven system. > >> The original suggestion from Torpedolos seemed based on a few widespread >> mis-conceptions. Apple is growing but Ubuntu is almost certainly growing faster >> but is starting from a smaller market share. Apple are highly visible and spend >> a fortune on PR and advertising. Ubuntu just gets on mostly by word-of-mouth. > Currently neiter seam to be growing, the curves are quite flattened. If Ubuntu is growing its at the cost of other distributions which is not really win. We wanna get users to leave the Windows platform. What Linux distribution they run is not as important. When Linux has 91% usage share we can start thinking about that. > >> I doubt Apple costs less to develop as a lot of Ubuntu is developed for free, >> certainly a lot of the bug-squad work for free. Do we really know if Apple's OS >> is lighter and faster than Ubuntu? I have found installing Ubuntu on different >> machines makes Ubuntu look and feel quite different, especially on machines that >> have bluetooth devices or wireless or both. Sure there are usually 1 or 2 >> things that need to be tweaked but usually on almost all hardware it seems to >> set-up just fine. Out of 4 recent machines 2 didn't need any tweaking to get >> hardware working although i swapped the window buttons back to the Windows side >> rather than the Mac side. 1 machine needed to have "cheese" installed but then >> intgrated the web-cam into all appropriate apps without any further agro. Just >> my own home-machine happens to be awkward with 10.04 for some reason but was/is >> fine with 9.04. Oh and i never have been good at setting up network printers on >> any OS. > Supporting hardware IS expensive. Personally i think we should have a certification program and work with hardware producers that are friendly to Linux. Hardware that has Windows-only drivers and does not have full documentation for our kernel developers can go *censored*. Why should we even look at their products. The only exception is when we have no choice. However for stuff like network cards and sound cards we do have a choice. We also have a choice for motherboards. Do they want to put the Ubuntu or Linux trademark on their boxes or not? There are millions of Linux users. If we start to buy only certified hardware with a friendly logotype on their box, then they will care. > >> >> Still there is clearly a big gap there in local stores. > That's what we need to fix. That's why a supported and commercial OEM version is so important. Combine a hardware certification program like the one Microsoft have, a partner (reseller) program like the one Microsoft have AND phone support, like Ubuntu have as an extra service. Put all that in one box and sell it with computers an Ubuntu will EAT market shares. Also take a look at Mandriva's commercial Linux distribution, and how it comes packed with graphics drivers, codecs and DVD support. The only areas that OSS currently does not cover. Canonical also sell this as an extra service, but users want it out of the box. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 20:30:31 -0000 Message-Id: > Computer stores are usually tied up with Microsoft in their sales/discoun= t. > It boils up to risks presented to stores such as if they sell Linux they = may > lose their "discount/promo" from Microsoft. Will the demand for other > platforms counter this risk? I don't know. It will take a big technology > company to push something just like what Google did with nexus one to push > Android and create the buzz. Big stores yes. Small local stores however goes into the standard OEM progr= am. The stores create the demand for most customers. De average customers j= ust wanna browse the internet, mail and stuff like that. And when things do= not work they go to the store for help. So give the stores a better deal w= here they make more money, and they will flip. Of course the gamer segment = will stat with Windows for a while more. However break into the non-gamer s= egments we can get enough users for game companies to bother releasing thei= r game for Linux. Android should be seen a an example that it can be done. ChromeOS will surely break some ground in the segment described above. Chrome is also available for Ubuntu so the applications that run on ChromeOS will run there to. I think that Chrome will do what Java never did - break developers away from the Windows API. It will still be bound to the x86 platform but at least we will be liberated from the domination of Windows. Chrome apps and games will run on Windows to so no-one will bother to make native Windows apps if they make a Chrome version. Chrome will have a the ability to run games at near-native speed without installers, just like we hoped Java Applets would be able to do. And games written for Chrome will work on any platform Chrome is ported to, including ChromeOS. There will also be a store for apps written for Chrome. While I would have hoped for something more open like Java, this will still be awesome. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: torpedolos (vvvvvvvvvvvvvv) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 21:50:51 -0000 Message-Id: <20100818215051.12887.77943.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Hi, When i compare to apple's way of selling, i don't mean that ubuntu should c= lose it's sources (how can he ?), close it's format, or make a big marketin= g campaign (well, in fact, why not ?). But I mean that it is easyer to earn money when you sell a complete system = (what apple makes) that when you give "only" an OS, an OS that anyone can = get for free and can copy... By a good coincidence, a complete solution is exactly what people want: - Being sure, before buying your computer, that the hard and software are p= erfectly shaped and tested to work together. - having only one contact in case of probleme either with hardware or with = software, or with both. The other point is that, for a reason i never totaly undertstood, each time= someone offers their computers with ubuntu or a linux distro, they are mor= e expensive than with windows ! Controling the manufacturing and the final price would stop that, and maybe= incite other sellers to review their marketing policy. People don't want to use xyz12356 instead of UTZ8957, they want to send and= receive mails, to "surf" on the web, to see their chidrens photos and vide= os, etc... they don't want a certain brand of computer, a certain brand of OS, they wa= nt a Solution that works... (Forgive my bad english, it is not my first language). --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: torpedolos (vvvvvvvvvvvvvv) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 22:03:08 -0000 Message-Id: <20100818220308.12955.3968.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Sorry for the double post but i just wanted to add that, if ubuntu sells computers, they would provide the same service as apple, but cheaper, and with a big "plus": the OS is open. It means that you can copy it on a "non-ubuntu" computer, modify it on your on computer if you want, and also that it corrects itself constantly... If you have a problem, you can ask canonical and have a customer-seller rel= ation. If you want to try a new thing or develop a software, you get the support o= f the communauty ! I think a product like that with a good marketing campaign, would have a great impact, and help solve bug#1. Don't you ? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Cariaga (mzc) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 22:24:20 -0000 Message-Id: Why can't Ubuntu local communities create a database of local stores in their area to guide people interested in Ubuntu. Also we can create a list of peripherals accepted by the kernel and are sold by these local stores. This way, we can help fellow Ubuntu users to achieve to "just works" system off-the-bat. If these information is available online, people can now see that there's someone local that knows Ubuntu and guide them through by sharing their experiences. On Aug 18, 2010 3:11 PM, "torpedolos" <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: Sorry for the double post but i just wanted to add that, if ubuntu sells computers, they would provide the same service as apple, but cheaper, and with a big "plus": the OS is open. It means that you can copy it on a "non-ubuntu" computer, modify it on your on computer if you want, and also that it corrects itself constantly... If you have a problem, you can ask canonical and have a customer-seller relation. If you want to try a new thing or develop a software, you get the support of the communauty ! I think a product like that with a good marketing campaign, would have a great impact, and help solve bug#1. Don't you ? --=20 Microsoft has a majority market share https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 You received this bug n... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: torpedolos (vvvvvvvvvvvvvv) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 22:41:26 -0000 Message-Id: <20100818224126.18971.47404.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Having a list of all good sellers, or even all of them, is nothing as long = as the sellers sell their computer with a higher or at least egal price tha= n with windows. Which is actually the case today. Let me ask you some questions:=20 - How many of us will be obliged to buy a new windows licence when they wil= l change their computers ? - How many of us would be ready to buy an "ubuntu computer", build by ubunt= u, certified drm-free, cheaper than an other one with windows, and with ubu= ntu allready on it ? No defrag to make, no mbr to save, no dual boot to install... Well, I am. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Carl Richell (carlrichell) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 23:07:31 -0000 Message-Id: <20100818230731.12955.58635.malone@wampee.canonical.com> @Randall & @Mark > The certified hardware section of the site mentions company=20 > names like HP, Dell, Toshiba, etc. while missing out companies=20 > like System76 that actually sell Ubuntu computers. > http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification/ > After reviewing the link. It does not match what system76 is=20 > currently offering.... Thanks for starting this topic. System76 has certified products in the past and we consider the program a valuable asset for Ubuntu and the community. For System76, Ubuntu Certification did not translate into greater consumer or business demand. We've been building Ubuntu computers for a long time and we consider our customers trust as an affirmation of our reputation for quality Ubuntu pre-installed products. Large OEM's are a different experience altogether. Typically, a customer can't determine if Ubuntu is supported through a large OEM's website and it's not clear if the OEM will support the customer should an issue arise. For these OEM's, certification carries greater value. Customers have the confidence that Ubuntu has been tested and works on the hardware. That should never be a question when browsing System76's website. All that said, Ubuntu's certification page makes System76 appear as a second tier, out of date, OEM when we work hard to position ourselves as the Vanguard of Ubuntu computers. In fact, we consider it our responsibility to reflect the very best of Ubuntu and Open Source Software through our products. Due to our six to twelve month product refresh cycle, certification isn't feasible; however, the new Ubuntu ready program may fit perfectly. We'll investigate. Now a word on bricks and mortar :-). Reading through this bug I can't help but recognize a desire to walk into Best Buy and purchase an Ubuntu pre-loaded pc - I'm certain predicated by the bug's description. This is a great way to describe Microsoft's monopoly but I don't think it's a direct line to squashing the bug - rather it's the logical end point of squashing the bug. System76 requires the Internet in many of the same ways that Ubuntu requires the Internet. Without it our market is too small. I would also venture to say that most computers are sold online. Ubuntu PC's at Best Buy or Walmart aren't the ticket. The ticket is creating the most innovative and creative software the world has known and marketing the hell out of it in a creative, audience capturing way... this is enormously over simplified - there's luck too :-). --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 08:45:58 -0000 Message-Id: > Hi, >=20 > When i compare to apple's way of selling, i don't mean that ubuntu should= close it's sources (how can he ?), close it's format, or make a big market= ing campaign (well, in fact, why not ?). > But I mean that it is easyer to earn money when you sell a complete syste= m (what apple makes) that when you give "only" an OS, an OS that anyone ca= n get for free and can copy... OS X has been on TPB for ages and so have Windows. When you say "can get fo= r free" I assume you mean "can get legally for free". I do not think its go= nna matter if they can download it for free, because the regular customer i= sn't gonna do that. Also if they have the free version support isn't going = to be free. > By a good coincidence, a complete solution is exactly what people want: > - Being sure, before buying your computer, that the hard and software are= perfectly shaped and tested to work together. > - having only one contact in case of probleme either with hardware or wit= h software, or with both. > > The other point is that, for a reason i never totaly undertstood, each ti= me someone offers their computers with ubuntu or a linux distro, they are m= ore expensive than with windows ! > Controling the manufacturing and the final price would stop that, and may= be incite other sellers to review their marketing policy. Having the small stores sell Linux should stop that. Linux distros are curr= ently mostly available on computers intended for business use, and are more= expensive then home user desktops. =20 > People don't want to use xyz12356 instead of UTZ8957, they want to send a= nd receive mails, to "surf" on the web, to see their chidrens photos and vi= deos, etc... > they don't want a certain brand of computer, a certain brand of OS, they = want a Solution that works... I totally agree on that. And the rest of us want them to fund development o= f cool stuff. :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 08:52:46 -0000 Message-Id: > Why can't Ubuntu local communities create a database of local stores in > their area to guide people interested in Ubuntu. Also we can create a list > of peripherals accepted by the kernel and are sold by these local stores. > This way, we can help fellow Ubuntu users to achieve to "just works" syst= em > off-the-bat. If these information is available online, people can now see > that there's someone local that knows Ubuntu and guide them through by > sharing their experiences. Being accepted by the kernel is not enough. There should be some heavy-duty= quality control. There are a lot of drivers in the kernel that are based o= n reverse-engineering on windows driver. That translates to "guesswork". So= metimes they are better then the Windows drivers, but often they do not acc= ess all functionality of their hardware. So i think that just listing all d= rivers is insufficient when putting new boxes together. There also are not = local user communities everywhere. However they do match "regional distribu= tors" that i talked about earlier, they can provide local coordination of U= buntu stores. They can also provide tier 2 support. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 12:06:20 -0000 Message-Id: <841534.57506.qm@web24107.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) I would favour a simple traffic light type logo endorsing products or servi= ces. =20 An expert in hardware issues (particularly printers) pointed out (in a=20 DistroWatch article) that the Free Software Foundation already has a 5 ligh= ts=20 system which is slightly flawed but could be re-arranged. I prefer Red (or= =20 none) for a total lack of support, Amber or Orange for reasonable support b= ut=20 perhaps not all features working flawlessly and Green for awesome support. = I=20 think 5 categories makes it slightly complicated but most people in the wor= ld=20 have probably seen traffic-lights in movies or something. Keeping (or making) It=20 Simple Has to be a high priority to beat this bug. Perhaps we could complicate it= to=20 fit in with FSF by having 2 shades of Amber and 2 of Green but inevitably t= here=20 is going to be some variation in colour anyway so i can't really see that p= lan=20 working. Basic traffic lights is simplest? Regards from Tom :) PS it seems that different LoCo teams do have different levels of activity = but=20 usually if you can catch someones attention then they could probably help e= ven=20 if there is no official route of getting the required info from them. It's = a=20 good argument for joining the LoCo Team and getting info out of people's he= ads=20 and onto accessible websites --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 12:28:18 -0000 Message-Id: <882514.19610.qm@web24104.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Regarding "killer apps" my company has kindly allowed me to use Ubuntu when= i=20 boot a LiveCd or Usb session and a couple of times has expressed in having = a=20 look at what i can do, at some point when they have some free time and noth= ing=20 else to do (will never happen, hopefully). =20 However GnuCash offers them time-saving and it could be the app that gets t= hem=20 interested in just using Ubuntu rather than doing a feasibility study. Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 12:59:25 -0000 Message-Id: > Hi :) >=20 > I would favour a simple traffic light type logo endorsing products or ser= vices. =20 > An expert in hardware issues (particularly printers) pointed out (in a=20 > DistroWatch article) that the Free Software Foundation already has a 5 li= ghts=20 > system which is slightly flawed but could be re-arranged. I prefer Red (= or=20 > none) for a total lack of support, Amber or Orange for reasonable support= but=20 > perhaps not all features working flawlessly and Green for awesome support= . I=20 > think 5 categories makes it slightly complicated but most people in the w= orld=20 > have probably seen traffic-lights in movies or something. > Keeping (or making) Personally I prefer a Linux or Ubuntu logotype on the box. However i think = we should have something that distinguishes between OSS and binary blob dri= vers. Hardware suppliers that do not support Linux should not even be listed. > It=20 > Simple > Has to be a high priority to beat this bug. Perhaps we could complicate = it to=20 > fit in with FSF by having 2 shades of Amber and 2 of Green but inevitably= there=20 > is going to be some variation in colour anyway so i can't really see that= plan=20 > working. Basic traffic lights is simplest? > Regards from > Tom :) As I expressed I think we need one that express full support from the manuf= acturer. And it should be put on the box so we can easily distinguish it in= the store. Hardware that does not claim to work in Linux on the box is som= ething i never buy. > PS it seems that different LoCo teams do have different levels of activit= y but=20 > usually if you can catch someones attention then they could probably help= even=20 > if there is no official route of getting the required info from them. It'= s a=20 > good argument for joining the LoCo Team and getting info out of people's = heads=20 > and onto accessible websites I think that making LoCo:s distributors is a good way to fund having a Tier= 3 support staff employed. It would also be good if they can have an office= . Also as this is Linux some LoCo:s may be able to perform Tier 3 support. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 13:24:11 -0000 Message-Id: <910816.210.qm@web24106.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi again The point i was trying to make is that hardware does not neatly fall into 1= of=20 the 2 categories category 1 being "supported" and=20 category 2 being unsupported There are questions about firmware or hardwiring and then drivers that have= =20 restricted functionality because some or all of the stuff normally done by = a=20 driver might be hard-wired such that an apparent OpenSource driver may stil= l=20 leave one bit of hardware just as effectively ClosedSource because of lack = of=20 access to the useful bits without physically replacing part of the hardware= . =20 Even ignoring such stuff that is beyond my understanding and keeping it to = OpenSource drivers vs ClosedSource (and never updated) that still leaves us= with=20 3 categories 1. Supported and OpenSource drivers resourced by the hardware manufacturer 2. Supported but drivers might be proprietary or functionality not quite=20 completely there yet 3. Unusable in linux, or perhaps just extremely limited functionality (or=20 unknown) Perhaps Tux or the Ubuntu logo could be in an appropriate colour or have an= =20 appropriately coloured background or have a circle around it or a tick besi= de it=20 or something to distinguish between how well the hardware works in linux. Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 14:44:59 -0000 Message-Id: > Hi again >=20 > The point i was trying to make is that hardware does not neatly fall into= 1 of=20 > the 2 categories >=20 > category 1 being "supported" and=20 > category 2 being unsupported >=20 > There are questions about firmware or hardwiring and then drivers that ha= ve=20 > restricted functionality because some or all of the stuff normally done b= y a=20 > driver might be hard-wired such that an apparent OpenSource driver may st= ill=20 > leave one bit of hardware just as effectively ClosedSource because of lac= k of=20 > access to the useful bits without physically replacing part of the hardwa= re. =20 > Even ignoring such stuff that is beyond my understanding and keeping it t= o=20 > OpenSource drivers vs ClosedSource (and never updated) that still leaves = us with=20 > 3 categories >=20 > 1. Supported and OpenSource drivers resourced by the hardware manufacturer > 2. Supported but drivers might be proprietary or functionality not quite = > completely there yet > 3. Unusable in linux, or perhaps just extremely limited functionality (or= =20 > unknown) This can still be 1. Supported and 2. Not officially supported. The second = one includes your second and third category. =20 > Perhaps Tux or the Ubuntu logo could be in an appropriate colour or have = an=20 > appropriately coloured background or have a circle around it or a tick be= side it=20 > or something to distinguish between how well the hardware works in linux. > Regards from > Tom :) Linux is a trademark and should only be put on boxes for hardware that is "Supported and OpenSource drivers resourced by the hardware manufacturer". That is what i mean with "certified" hardware. Also i would prefer a certification process that makes sure that everything actually works with the open driver. When i look at the shelf of the store i want clear non-confusing branding that clearly shows that his thing is for for my Linux box. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 09:05:00 -0000 Message-Id: On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 10:58, Graham wrote: > My Gran always warmed to pot before brewing tea. > > I have made her tea several times without warming the pot. > She never complained about my tea, in fact she said it was quite nice. > > She saw me doing it once and complained. > "But I never warm the pot, Gran" > > Did she: > A. Complain that she always thought there was something wrong with my cup= s of tea. > B. Decide that warming the pot didn't seem necessary and not do it in fut= ure. I rather think that she was just polite by telling you that your tea is "quite nice". When she complained she finally found, what you are doing wrong. ;-) - SCNR. Moral: Things seeming unlogical first, might become quite logical when you know all the details. And regarding Ubuntu: There are still many issues and basically Linux applications are buggy in the same way as Windows applications are. The architecture of the Linux OS is better than Windows IMHO (and of course this is the opinion of many others too), but this is the good thing that mostly just the admin cares of. Open Office has bugs and annoyances also - I know it - I am a long-time user of both worlds. If you know the details (and with "details" I mean the experience you get when working in real environment on a day-to-day-basis), you see still enough good reasons why people stick to Windows. Ubuntu (or other Linux distributions - I consider Ubuntu the best on the desktop together with Mint maybe that anyway is based on Ubuntu) has still a long way to go to be the killer-OS. And only, when it gets close to being the killer-OS then vendors will consider preinstalling Ubuntu rather than Windows. Regarding the hardware I am quite happy with certifications like those given on the Ubuntu.com site at the bottom (http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification/ - already mentioned earlier). The wiki also holds relevant information at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hardware. Or the list at http://www.linuxcompatible.org/compatdb/vendors/hardware_linux.html is also nice. And with focus on printers http://www.openprinting.org/printers So I will keep going with those so far. --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 09:40:59 -0000 Message-Id: <277076.96213.qm@web24103.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MicroSquish Office has plenty of bugs too.=C2=A0 My favourite is in Excel w= here=20 people autosum a column of figures directly under the column and then try t= o=20 insert a row at the bottom.=C2=A0 Sometimes it gets included in the total b= ut usually=20 it doesn't.=C2=A0 Word keeps switching formatting, dictionaries and fonts s= o any=20 non-americans have to ignore the spelling warnings.=C2=A0 In Word bullet po= ints=20 rarely line-up and numbered lists keep getting the numbers wrong.=C2=A0 Of = course=20 real experts can usually beat these things into shape but OpenOffice Writer= just=20 gets on with doing the right thing.=C2=A0=20 =C2=A0 Hmm, i have found a glitch in Calc but it is probably only certain usages t= hat=20 will stumble on it and is easy to work-around. Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 10:23:25 -0000 Message-Id: On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 11:40, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > MicroSquish Office has plenty of bugs too.=C2=A0 My favourite is in Excel= where [...] Of course, it has also plenty of bugs (and I mentioned that) - e.g. my favorite Excel-bug is: It can't handle negative times. Guess, in my room sits somebody printing out xls sheets with working hours and calculating extra hours sum by hand! But anyway, IMHO Linux/Ubuntu have the better architecture as the big plus - and THE COMMUNITY! By accident I dived more into contribution that I could ever have done with Microsoft. There you need to know particular people and so on. - Years back I tried to help out with bug reports and even calling them (local support hotlines) - yes I was naive. I think that Ubuntu is better overall quality but the point I wanted to make is: Plenty of people are sticking with Windows for plenty good reasons. Just to give an example: Somebody not knowing much of computers can buy yet another hardware gadget without the need to worry about compatibility with the OS. Everywhere is written if Windows 7 compatibility is given - but quite nobody writes "Linux-compatible" even if the compatibility is given. Please don't focus on this now - it is just one example. I myself invest the more time in finding a compatible gadget for the sake of other advantages, but other people are not willing to search the internet for known issues with a thing they want to buy. --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 12:05:46 -0000 Message-Id: <4C72641A.2050904@hal-pc.org> On 08/23/2010 05:23 AM, Martin Wildam wrote: > Just to give an example: Somebody not knowing much of > computers can buy yet another hardware gadget without the need to > worry about compatibility with the OS. Everywhere is written if > Windows 7 compatibility is given - but quite nobody writes > "Linux-compatible" even if the compatibility is given. Amusingly enough, I was hooking up a fairly new HP printer last night.=20 Works in Linux with no trouble. Works in XP with no trouble. Could not=20 find a driver. Windows 7, 64bit. You know why, and I know why, but the=20 user still doesn't understand why I had trouble, and how I had to fix it. I still find it funny that many of the things people hold Windows out=20 for doing well, it often does not do so well. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 12:25:52 -0000 Message-Id: On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 14:05, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Amusingly enough, I was hooking up a fairly new HP printer last night. > Works in Linux with no trouble. =C2=A0Works in XP with no trouble. =C2=A0= Could not > find a driver. =C2=A0Windows 7, 64bit. =C2=A0You know why, and I know why= , but the > user still doesn't understand why I had trouble, and how I had to fix it. Yes, I know - had the same issue - person bought Windows 7 machine plus printer at the same time at the same shop after asking a consultant in the shop. :) - But the printer worked anyway even on Windows 7 64 bit (just without the fancy tools). > I still find it funny that many of the things people hold Windows out > for doing well, it often does not do so well. Anyway, I had troubles with the HP printer (in my case) even on Linux - so no difference here (and of course the fancy tools not available there either). --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 14:20:48 -0000 Message-Id: <181883.70795.qm@web24103.mail.ird.yahoo.com> I have often found troubles with the new Windows in the first year of it's = releaes.=C2=A0=C2=A0 They tend to act a lot like alpha releases except you = have to buy=20 them for a price and there is little or no support ("blame the user", "that= =20 error message does not exist" etc) let alone efficient means of=20 bug-tracking/fixing.=C2=A0 Within approx the last year of official support = the thing=20 becomes really quite usable but it really starts to fly about the time offi= cial=20 MicroSquish support ends.=C2=A0 Of course by then it is extremely vulnerabl= e to=20 viruses and there are many known issues but thecrucial word=C2=A0is "known"= rather=20 than "denied". I have been visiting a few offices in past few weeks and alm= ost=20 all of them have brand-new machines with Xp.=C2=A0 Win7 seems to be for hom= e users;=20 the type of users MicroSquish doesn't care about and doesn't mind annoying = because they can't fight back and can be easily duped by "tech support" ove= r an=20 expensive phone call. =C2=A0 Really glad to have this space to blow off steam knowing that most of you m= ight=20 disagree with the odd comment or be able to finesse a better or more precis= e way=20 of sayign the same thing but who understand what i mean because of having t= ried=20 an alternative to Windows. Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Randall Ross (randall) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 16:26:55 -0000 Message-Id: <4C72A14F.5040508@executiv.es> My humble opinion: We'll likely not win over the mindshare of the majority by berating the competition, nor by entering into a feature-by-feature (or bug-by-bug) analysis of their products. In fact, by continually mentioning their names and products we give them additional free word-of-mouth advertising. The best way to gain mindshare (and fix Bug #1) is to focus on what Ubuntu does best and continually reinforce that message, politefully, and tactfully. On 10-08-23 07:20 AM, Tom wrote: > I have often found troubles with the new Windows in the first year of it'= s=20 > releaes. They tend to act a lot like alpha releases except you have to = buy=20 > them for a price and there is little or no support ("blame the user", "th= at=20 > error message does not exist" etc) let alone efficient means of=20 > bug-tracking/fixing. Within approx the last year of official support the= thing=20 > becomes really quite usable but it really starts to fly about the time of= ficial=20 > MicroSquish support ends. Of course by then it is extremely vulnerable t= o=20 > viruses and there are many known issues but thecrucial word is "known" ra= ther=20 > than "denied". I have been visiting a few offices in past few weeks and a= lmost=20 > all of them have brand-new machines with Xp. Win7 seems to be for home u= sers;=20 > the type of users MicroSquish doesn't care about and doesn't mind annoyin= g=20 > because they can't fight back and can be easily duped by "tech support" o= ver an=20 > expensive phone call. > =20 > Really glad to have this space to blow off steam knowing that most of you= might=20 > disagree with the odd comment or be able to finesse a better or more prec= ise way=20 > of sayign the same thing but who understand what i mean because of having= tried=20 > an alternative to Windows. > Regards from Tom :) > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 08:12:19 -0000 Message-Id: On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 18:26, Randall Ross (rrnwexec) wrote: > My humble opinion: We'll likely not win over the mindshare of the > majority by berating the competition, nor by entering into a > feature-by-feature (or bug-by-bug) analysis of their products. In fact, > by continually mentioning their names and products we give them > additional free word-of-mouth advertising. The best way to gain > mindshare (and fix Bug #1) is to focus on what Ubuntu does best and > continually reinforce that message, politefully, and tactfully. I agree with you - although I did not come over to Ubuntu because of it's attractive points. I came over because of the sufferings I had before. So I guess we should not forget about the suffering one experiences. Ubuntu must solve peoples problems also not just being more attractive. --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 21:46:39 -0000 Message-Id: No, we win over the competition by delivering something better. That's why = i think that we should limit our hardware efforts. Its better to say that "= this mother board is perfect for a Linux computer" then to say that "Linux = should work on any computer". Why should we bother reverse engineer some ch= ip on some motherboard that does not comply to any standard, when there are= many motherboards that do?=20 This is where Apple got it right. They dont make OS X work with all hardware. They say "this is how Mac hardware works" and then they let everyone that complies get to be called "Mac hardware". Q) Will my printer work with Mac? A) Is it a Mac printer? Q) Will my printer work with Linux? A) Perhaps. That is only confusing. I also agree that there is a lot of work to do outside of driver space. But that is even more of a reason to not spend valuable resources working around hardware compatibility issues. If people wanna do driver development then there are work to be done in the FOSS radeon driver, for example. That is a FOSS driver and we have full documentation from AMD, and that's the kind of drivers that deserves our attention. On a higher level there are also work to be done. I previously stated that we lack a abstract IPC mechanism Like the Component Object Model (COM) in Windows. For example the bug we just had in Xorg is a symptom of this. There should not be a Xorg-specific IPC mechanism. Of course a standard IPC abstraction layer may have had this problem to, but that's not a reason to have one. We have lots of component models like XPCOM, DBus, Bonobo and KPart. However none of them provides what MS COM provieds. DBus is good, but it does not cover all IPC needs. Bonobo has some features that DBus covers. KPart is also nice but KDE-specific. When it comes to network IPC web services is the de facto standard and with fast infoset i doubt we can do anything faster. However we still need something that bridges local IPC. Web Services are nice but using network datagram services for local IPC is probably inefficient. One situation is when the client and server is in the same process, then using anything that copies data would be inefficient. Also we have some hardware-supported IPC in som processors, like for example Tilera Tile. A IPC library should be able to transparently use that. This is one of the reasons we need an abstraction layer, to use hardware like this we only need to change the abstraction layer and applications do not need to bother. Bugs is another reason. Abstraction layers of all kinds means less code redundancy, and this also means less bugs. How many implementations of CRC32 does a Linux desktop distribution provide? This is another issue we have to address. Yes we do want programmers to be able to chose how to do things. However having 50 identical implementations is not choice, its a breeding field for bugs. Some say that having both KDE and Gnome divides Linux. I do not at all agree on that, I think that having both improves Linux. Hoverer stuff they have in common should be shared code. One example of that is DBus, that is shared between them. Another thing that should be shared is Webkit. Currently there are a Webkit component for KDE and one for Gnome. To do that we need a common way do define component, such as windows COM. KDE has KPart for this. Gnome used to have the now obsolete Bonobo. Windows has a layer above COM for this that is called ActiveX, and is used extensively to share graphic component. Obviously ActiveX is far from perfect because the new .NET assemblies are not fully compatible with COM/ActiveX. I do not really know why, but we should analyze this so we do not design something with similar flaws. The reason that i bounce this issue here and not just implement something is that i realize that there may be a lot of pitfalls here that need to be considered. COM is considered flawed why a new model was needed in .NET. I dont really know why but think that it should be analyzed before we start coding. I want a model that can be easily used together with mono and java OOP without such problems occurring. When i was a windows developer moving to .NET "binding" was unknown to me. Most libraries was transparently usable using COM. In Linux every mayor language has "bindings" to every popular library. This means redundent code and higher probability for bugs. With a good IPC mechanism my PHP class would be able to call my C++ class that in turn calls a Java class. And once such a library exist it should be extended with a standard for custom controls, where KDE and Gnome can use each others components without having both a KDE and Gnome version of the same component. Another issue i have spent some time thinking about is the architecture of modern operating systems. We are seeing a development that goes towards a hypervisor plus supervisor model. Here I think it would be wise to make use of this fully. Ubuntu/Linux can currently act as both hypervisor and supervisor. However i think it would be best to have a specialized hypervisor distribution and a specialized supervisor distribution. Most Ubuntu installs would use Ubuntu both as hypervisor and supervisor, but even this use case has its advantages. But most importantly it stresses a new definition of Operating System. The hypervisor would take the hardware abstraction role and be more of a layer above bios then a part of the operating system itself. This is sort of a Hannibal strategy where we divide the front and flank the enemy from two sides. Microsoft would be stressed to make windows a supervisor that runs not only on top of their own hypervisor but on top of the Linux hypervisor. It already does to some extent but a more strict hypervisor-supervisor architecture would force them to comply. Just as Firmware is out of their hands, so will hardware. This would force them to solve the problem that Direct X has problems with this kind of architecture. The supervisor cannot have something like Direct X if that requires hardware drivers. And if they move Direct X to their own hypervisor then it will not work on other platforms. The only choice would be to split Direct X in a hardware component then works with other hypervisors, and a software component that would be easy for other supervisors to implement. In fact a hypervisor-supervisor standardization would make it impossible to use hardware vendor lockin tricks within the supervisor. Now with Windows as a supervisor rather then a classic operating system, Linux as a supervisor would be able to attack from the other flank. First of all neither Linux or Windows is exclusive, one of the good things with supervisor is that they can co-exist. Only the hypervisor is exclusive which at this point is irrelevant. This means that Windows games and applications is no longer a reason to not have Linux installed, and this without the headache of dual boot. This means that both can theoretically have 100% usage share, as using supervisors are not mutually exclusive. So lets make a Ubuntu Hypervisor spin and make sure there are supervisor images available of all other spins. And perhaps a tool easily create now copies of them in the Hypervisor. > My humble opinion: We'll likely not win over the mindshare of the > majority by berating the competition, nor by entering into a > feature-by-feature (or bug-by-bug) analysis of their products. In fact, > by continually mentioning their names and products we give them > additional free word-of-mouth advertising. The best way to gain > mindshare (and fix Bug #1) is to focus on what Ubuntu does best and > continually reinforce that message, politefully, and tactfully. >=20 >=20 > On 10-08-23 07:20 AM, Tom wrote: > > I have often found troubles with the new Windows in the first year of i= t's=20 > > releaes. They tend to act a lot like alpha releases except you have t= o buy=20 > > them for a price and there is little or no support ("blame the user", "= that=20 > > error message does not exist" etc) let alone efficient means of=20 > > bug-tracking/fixing. Within approx the last year of official support t= he thing=20 > > becomes really quite usable but it really starts to fly about the time = official=20 > > MicroSquish support ends. Of course by then it is extremely vulnerable= to=20 > > viruses and there are many known issues but thecrucial word is "known" = rather=20 > > than "denied". I have been visiting a few offices in past few weeks and= almost=20 > > all of them have brand-new machines with Xp. Win7 seems to be for home= users;=20 > > the type of users MicroSquish doesn't care about and doesn't mind annoy= ing=20 > > because they can't fight back and can be easily duped by "tech support"= over an=20 > > expensive phone call. > > =20 > > Really glad to have this space to blow off steam knowing that most of y= ou might=20 > > disagree with the odd comment or be able to finesse a better or more pr= ecise way=20 > > of sayign the same thing but who understand what i mean because of havi= ng tried=20 > > an alternative to Windows. > > Regards from Tom :) > > > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 07:42:30 -0000 Message-Id: On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 23:46, Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > This is where Apple got it right. They dont make OS X work with all > hardware. They say "this is how Mac hardware works" and then they let > everyone that complies get to be called "Mac hardware". I tend to agree with you. And even because people rather choose to put Ubuntu on their new machine than reinstalling their old pot where the HD died, so putting more focus on new users on new machines would not be the worst IMHO. That said, I would like to see continued efforts to make Linux run on other hardware too. Don't forget, that especially the strength of Linux to run on any hardware brought Linux to be run on Routers and even Phones too. So the efforts to support all kind of different hardware should not be stopped. So it should be that way: Q) Will my printer work with Linux? A) Is it certified? - Then for sure, if not, perhaps. This would bring confusion only for those buying non-certified hardware, but offer more than Apple does. > Windows has a layer above COM for this that is called ActiveX, > and is used extensively to share graphic component. Obviously ActiveX is > far from perfect because the new .NET assemblies are not fully > compatible with COM/ActiveX. I do not really know why, but we should > analyze this so we do not design something with similar flaws. Fully agree with the COM/ActiveX argument - I am a system integrator and now developing OS independent with Java, I miss the COM - I would like to have - not just a Linux-bound COM-alternative. I would like to see an OS independent way of reusing components and GUI elements. - Think that Web-Services basically are just a workaround for the lack of having such interfaces. The java related RCPs approaching a solution were only for Java world, but we need an OS agnostic and language agnostic solution. This is the only way to achieve widely adoption. At the moment I cannot develop for Linux only, because for companies there is a transition going over many years until all used applications run also on Linux. This cannot be changed from one day to the other. What applies much for companies often partly applies for private persons or small businesses (often either being one-man-shows). > Now with Windows as a supervisor rather then a classic operating system, What do you mean with this "supervisor"? --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 15:46:53 -0000 Message-Id: > Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 07:42:30 +0000 > From: 1@bugs.launchpad.net > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 23:46, Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > > This is where Apple got it right. They dont make OS X work with all > > hardware. They say "this is how Mac hardware works" and then they let > > everyone that complies get to be called "Mac hardware". >=20 > I tend to agree with you. And even because people rather choose to put > Ubuntu on their new machine than reinstalling their old pot where the > HD died, so putting more focus on new users on new machines would not > be the worst IMHO. That said, I would like to see continued efforts to > make Linux run on other hardware too. Don't forget, that especially > the strength of Linux to run on any hardware brought Linux to be run > on Routers and even Phones too. So the efforts to support all kind of > different hardware should not be stopped. Yes. We should strive to have as much hardware as possible. But still without valuable time and money to support vendors that ignore us. Linux/Android phones with official Linux drivers and documentation should be supported, and so should Linux routers. However in cases where there is a lack of supported hardware I think we should work on it within the community. Router corporation does not support Linux? Then we should build our own routers with components that is certified for Linux. There are quite many of us that want such a thing so we should be able to finance it. For example i stumbled across the Armadeus embedded Linux board a while ago. Another thing I have been thinking about is an Open Stock Market (based on OSS of course) which could make it simple to start and invest in new FOSS companies. Classic stock markets is not user friendly and its hard for the average user to get involved. Such a stock market should be Web- based and use payment methods such as paypal making it easy to buy and sell stocks. However, now I think I'm gliding of topic... :) I agree that we should continue efforts to support all KINDS of hardware. However we do not really require more then one component of each kind. If we have one phone of every kind of phones that is sufficient. More does not hurt but we should not stretch our resources thin trying to support everything. >=20 > So it should be that way: > =20 > Q) Will my printer work with Linux? > A) Is it certified? - Then for sure, if not, perhaps. >=20 > This would bring confusion only for those buying non-certified > hardware, but offer more than Apple does. >=20 >=20 > > Windows has a layer above COM for this that is called ActiveX, > > and is used extensively to share graphic component. Obviously ActiveX is > > far from perfect because the new .NET assemblies are not fully > > compatible with COM/ActiveX. I do not really know why, but we should > > analyze this so we do not design something with similar flaws. >=20 > Fully agree with the COM/ActiveX argument - I am a system integrator > and now developing OS independent with Java, I miss the COM - I would > like to have - not just a Linux-bound COM-alternative. I would like to > see an OS independent way of reusing components and GUI elements. - > Think that Web-Services basically are just a workaround for the lack > of having such interfaces. The java related RCPs approaching a > solution were only for Java world, but we need an OS agnostic and > language agnostic solution. This is the only way to achieve widely > adoption. Yeah. Perhaps I use "Linux" and "Ununtu" to much when i really mean "FOSS".= I agree that it should not be Linux specific, what i meant was that Linux = needs something like this but the need is as great in other operating syste= ms, including Windows. I am a firm believer that application development sh= ould be OS-agnostic, so we should have a framework that works everywhere. Web Services have developed into something really good and fast for remote = OOP, once protocols liberated from XML appeared. "Binary XML" like Fast Inf= oset is currently the best solution for remoting. I have studied this a lot= and that's my conclusion. There is currently not a FOSS C implementation o= f Fast Infoset, but that's just an issue of creating one. I think its a bit amusing that Web Services that was supposed to be XML=20 and easy to read is developing into a fast binary protocol like RPC. In=20 the end speed does matter. However as i stated before we also need something for local IPC, running Fast Infoset over localhost will not be able to compete with shared memory solutions. We probably meed a solution similar to shared memory but with more kernel-enforced security. Something where we can allocate a memory "object" and pass it around. With shared memory all applications passing an object around must have access to all shared objects which honestly is a complete mess. There are some API:s that are able to do no-copy communication that works similar to this. Perhaps extending the sockets architecture so that we can do no-copy localhost communication will actually allow us to use web services even for local communication at shared memory speed. However we would have to extend the Web Service API to store such an object rather then just transfer it, so we can have a no-copy architecture. If we can do something aligned to the existing Web Service API then we could save a lot of time, and as WS has become the de facto API for remoting it is easy to convince others to use it locally. Many already do use WS localy and if we can remove the performance penalty then i think the discussion will be sort. I think we really need the input from some kernel hacker here. =20 > At the moment I cannot develop for Linux only, because for companies > there is a transition going over many years until all used > applications run also on Linux. This cannot be changed from one day to > the other. What applies much for companies often partly applies for > private persons or small businesses (often either being > one-man-shows). I agree to that. We need OS-agnostic API:s. That's why Web Services is so popular in remoting. Even when using slow XML it still was a platform-agnostic format. Creating good local IPC may require some kernel hacking, but as long as it can be adopted by all mayor operating systems its worth it. It make take time to establish something that requires kernel-level support, but its better then not having a good local IPC solution. I dont really care how the API looks and is called, as long as it fills the requirements. If we dont like web services we can always wrap with a neater API, as long at it provides the functionality we want, including speed. For example i suggest that we write compatibility layers or backends for XPCOM, COM. DBus and all other libraries that are still in use. With that i mean that a COM implementation should be able to communicate using the new IPC API, not necessarily with other non-COM services. Also Xorg should have a backand that use this API for both local and networ= k-transparent communication, as it will provide both. This should really si= mplify the X11 protocol a lot. :) Even just using Web Services with Fast Infoset rather then the current netw= ork protocol would probably simplify X11 and most other old network protoco= ls a lot, while delivering superior speed. Also designing something to work on all platforms including Windows will help bridge the #1-bug as it may lure Windows developers away from COM and other Windows-specific technology. >=20 >=20 > > Now with Windows as a supervisor rather then a classic operating > system, >=20 > What do you mean with this "supervisor"? I mean as a OS that does not have any access to hardware resources except t= rough a hypervisor, like Xen, KVM or Hyper-V. So what i really suggest here is to have a "Ubuntu Hypervisor" that is actu= ally KVM and its dependencies, including drivers. The other spins of Ununtu= would then be everything needed to run inside KVM and other Hypervisors. E= ventually this should evolve into two software components that has very lit= tle in common. For exemple the "Ubuntu Hypervisor" does not need an advance= d scheduler, or anything that is not required to run one or several supervi= sors. The supervisor in turn do not need hardware drivers, just drivers for= the hypervisors. If we do this split in Linux then Microsoft will be stressed to do this spl= it in the client version of Windows. They already have Hyper-V integrated w= ith their Windows Server stressed by VmWare. The key issue here is really DirectX. It is problematic because its current= implementation does not support this kind of visualization. This currently= makes Direct X limited to Hyper-V where it can break the hypervisor-superv= isor boundary and have direct access to hardware. The other solution is to = move DirectX hardware abstraction to Hyper-V so that it can be similarly su= pported by other hypervisors. After all Microsoft wants Windows to run ever= ywhere. However if they expect people with KVM, VmWare or VirtualBox to wan= na use Windows as a supervisor KVM must work there so they must work on ena= bling that. On the other hand this means that with Direct X in the hypervis= or, Linux as a supervisor can have a driver to access this and provide nati= ve DirectX support in Wine for example. Windows currently have about 91% desktop/client usage-share and that's going down. If they want the other 9% to buy Windows they will need to adapt to KVM, VirtualBox etc. But in doing so they will open up for Linux and FOSS to spread like fire. Its similar to a prisoners dilemma. The pile of money that this 9% can provide and lose their vendor lock- in. Or keep the vendor lock in and be locked out from desktops that does not run Windows or Hyper-V. Even if they initially chose not to go for the first option that pile of money will still be there and whenever they desperately need to boost sales like when Vista failed the temptation may overwhelm them - and we will have won. So basically by standardizing around having the hypervisor (KVM) as a base system we are telling Microsoft suits, "Hej, you can have our users money". While the long term effect of falling for this trick would be both disastrous and obvious for them, they live in a quarter-based economy. Having high market shares in five years is not always as important as providing a good report this quarter. They may not even work at Microsoft in five years, but need their CV to look good. There is also other reasons for this. It would have benefits to have a stable base system and contain most possible problems to a supervisor. Migration to a new version of Ubuntu is a lot less painless if you can run it side by side with the old version. Live migration is also cool but of limited value on the desktop. Another thing I also wrote about was code redundancy. Modular code does wonders when eliminating code redundancy. While splitting the kernel apart like this does only provides some modularity it still enables both components to be more flexible. For example Linux and BSD developers could work together and develop a single hypervisor, while still having different supervisor-level code. There is already a port of KVM to FreeBSD which is exactly what i envision when i talk about decreasing code redundancy. Seing components such as KVM as not a Linux component but an independent component makes it far more usable. I first started thinking about this when libATA was introduced. Seeing such components as libraries rather then part of Linux makes it possible to share them. I think i talked about OSKit previously, and this fits the OSKit philosophy. I dont think that we can ever just merge all FOSS kernels together, but that does not makes it impossible to have a small but growing number of kernel-level libraries like KVM that is shared among them. This would still allow kernel-specific patches and tweaks. For example what is a kernel-level library in Linux and BSD may be banished to user-space in a microkernel-based system. >=20 > --=20 > Martin Wildam >=20 > http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 07:33:02 -0000 Message-Id: On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 17:46, Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Yes. We should strive to have as much hardware as possible. But still > without valuable time and money to support vendors that ignore us. Full ACK, the vendors that continously ignore the Linux/Ubuntu community should be ignored either by the community. > Router corporation does not support Linux? Then we > should build our own routers with components that is certified for > Linux. There are quite many of us that want such a thing so we should be > able to finance it. I think the financing issue should be solved either (I think you touched that issue in your comment either). There is something like a portal required where many companies or individuals can share the costs of implementing a feature or fixing particular problems/bugs or building a driver etc. > Web Services have developed into something really good and fast for remot= e OOP, once protocols liberated from XML appeared. "Binary XML" like Fast I= nfoset is currently the best solution for remoting. Don't know, what you mean with "binary XML", but XML and HTML are quite the worst formats ever existed. Why? - Because it is quite impossible to build a really efficient parser, nor allow those formats continuously append operations. YAML and JSON are already doing a better job, but IMHO yet not the optimum. That said, the bottleneck mostly is the transfer bandwidth anyway so the more time needed for parsing is secondary. > I think its a bit amusing that Web Services that was supposed to be XML > and easy to read is developing into a fast binary protocol like RPC. In > the end speed does matter. E.g. SOAP is one of the worst things I have ever seen. I hate it. > I think we really need the input from some kernel hacker here. And here probably is not the best location to continue this discussion... > Also designing something to work on all platforms including Windows will > help bridge the #1-bug as it may lure Windows developers away from COM > and other Windows-specific technology. Indeed, one of the most important things at this point in history is, to offer solutions that work everywhere so Windows (or Mac) users can try and when they see, that they can work with the same applications even if they would switch to Linux/*buntu they would be more likely to give it a try and enjoy. > Having high market shares in five years is not always as > important as providing a good report this quarter.=C2=A0They may not even > work at Microsoft in five years, but need their CV to look good. The slow and steady success outweighs the short-term success... > Migration to a new version of Ubuntu is a lot less painless if you can > run it side by side with the old version. Live migration is also cool > but of limited value on the desktop. I never run side-by-side - simply just because: Why waste HD space - even if it is just 4 GB? No matter how big a HD is, it tends to be full anyway (just like basements). ;-) I think, we are going to much in detail to be discussed here, but anyway, good that those things have been mentioned... --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 08:37:50 -0000 Message-Id: <605151.90986.qm@web24103.mail.ird.yahoo.com> I really enjoyed the last several posts where i had no idea what was being = talked about but it's good to have people with that level of relevant detai= led=20 knowledge contributing to a thread. When we see the term "hacker" a lot of people still think of the way the=20 mainstream press and news reports mis-use the term. It is better to realis= e=20 that inside the linux community it more usually means something like "cleve= r=20 coder/programmer". Mostly when programmers write code they are just follow= =20 standard methods and settle into habits, however most programmers have odd = moments when they really grok and have an almost Zen-like "oneness with the= =20 code" producing something so beautifully simple and elegant that other code= =20 looks like a kludge in comparison, even if it was fairly well produced. =20 Sometimes a hack might be producing a kludge where it wasn't thought possib= le to=20 get any result at all. One thing about linux is that elegant code is often= =20 easily carried through into subsequent releases and kludges gradually get=20 replaced with more elegant code. With Windows programming it is usually=20 difficult to get any overview of any particular chunk of coding so it often= =20 remains a kludge. In linux elegant code often results in admiration and re= spect=20 for the coder. The main thing about "hack" is about producing something ve= ry=20 fast or clever or elegant or outstanding in some other way. =20 Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 09:57:18 -0000 Message-Id: On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 10:37, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > One thing about linux is that elegant code is often > easily carried through into subsequent releases and kludges gradually get > replaced with more elegant code. If you want to hear interesting things about the advantage of open source developement - listen to http://techcast.chariotsolutions.com/index.php?post_id=3D458384 (Sorry for referring to Red hat here - but the speech is not limited to red= hat) Who wants to fly over the slides instead of listening: http://www.chariotsolutions.com/slides/pdfs/ete2009-ExonovationTieman.pdf What I liked most is: He pointed out, that no company can finance a real large amount of developers and in Open Source projects there are also usually working only a few full-time on a project, but the gain of the hundreds of contributors who file just a few or a single additional bug or do a little additional testing or fixing, bring a lot of gain. --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 10:37:35 -0000 Message-Id: > Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 07:33:02 +0000 > From: 1@bugs.launchpad.net > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 17:46, Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > > Yes. We should strive to have as much hardware as possible. But still > > without valuable time and money to support vendors that ignore us. >=20 > Full ACK, the vendors that continously ignore the Linux/Ubuntu > community should be ignored either by the community. Yeah. People accept that Apple only support the hardware that supports Appl= e, so there should be no problem doing this with Linux to. I think that we = have support for most kinds of devices now. Lets remember that most of the embedded industry use Linux now. If we start= discarding hardware vendors that do not cooperate it will hurt them. It ma= y not hurt motherboard and PC vendors, but it will hurt those that makes th= e low level hardware. They have their hand both in the embedded and PC mark= et unlike motherboard suppliers that is limited to the PC market. > > Router corporation does not support Linux? Then we > > should build our own routers with components that is certified for > > Linux. There are quite many of us that want such a thing so we should be > > able to finance it. >=20 > I think the financing issue should be solved either (I think you > touched that issue in your comment either). There is something like a > portal required where many companies or individuals can share the > costs of implementing a feature or fixing particular problems/bugs or > building a driver etc. There use to be a "virtual stock market" site where people could band toget= her and start projects, that when marketed and sold produced cash for the s= tock holders. However it was under the dot com boom and died with it.=20 There are sites where people can share the costs trough bounties. However i= think investments is going to bring in more money than donations.=20 =20 > > Web Services have developed into something really good and fast for rem= ote OOP, once protocols liberated from XML appeared. "Binary XML" like Fast= Infoset is currently the best solution for remoting. >=20 > Don't know, what you mean with "binary XML", but XML and HTML are > quite the worst formats ever existed. Why? - Because it is quite > impossible to build a really efficient parser, nor allow those formats > continuously append operations. YAML and JSON are already doing a > better job, but IMHO yet not the optimum. That said, the bottleneck > mostly is the transfer bandwidth anyway so the more time needed for > parsing is secondary. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Infoset Fast Infoset and other "Binary XML" formats is basically formats that are o= n a API-level compatible with XML parsers but stor data in a binary data st= ructure. As far as I can determine Fast Infoset is the fastest thing around= currently. Its a little perverse that they have XML in their name because = they dont really have anything to do with XML... but as XML is the hype it = may be needed to fool project managers that they are not missing out on the= XML hype... > > I think its a bit amusing that Web Services that was supposed to be XML > > and easy to read is developing into a fast binary protocol like RPC. In > > the end speed does matter. >=20 > E.g. SOAP is one of the worst things I have ever seen. I hate it. I agree there. I dont even know how it really worked. I read trough the ove= rview when the hype started and stopped there. The only problem it solves i= s high portability, but it creates more problem then that... > > I think we really need the input from some kernel hacker here. >=20 > And here probably is not the best location to continue this > discussion... Perhaps. But where is the best location? > > Also designing something to work on all platforms including Windows will > > help bridge the #1-bug as it may lure Windows developers away from COM > > and other Windows-specific technology. >=20 > Indeed, one of the most important things at this point in history is, > to offer solutions that work everywhere so Windows (or Mac) users can > try and when they see, that they can work with the same applications > even if they would switch to Linux/*buntu they would be more likely to > give it a try and enjoy. Also in enables Linux-Windows interoperability. Applications running on Windows clients/servers can transparantly call Linux clients/servers and vice verse. For larger multi-server applications that allows a slow migration to Linux. Now components can be implemented on Linux while old ones stay on Windows. > > Having high market shares in five years is not always as > > important as providing a good report this quarter. They may not even > > work at Microsoft in five years, but need their CV to look good. >=20 > The slow and steady success outweighs the short-term success... Not in the mind of the individual suits that desire to put that short- term success on their CV... We tend to think of Microsoft as a person when it in fact are a group of individuals. Some say that an enemy is never stronger then its weakest link. If we limit "the enemy" to only include those that have the authority to make this kind of decisions this is very true. So while the slow and steady success out-weights the short-term success for Microsoft as a whole, individual executives will act in their own best interest, not in Microsoft's. > > Migration to a new version of Ubuntu is a lot less painless if you can > > run it side by side with the old version. Live migration is also cool > > but of limited value on the desktop. >=20 > I never run side-by-side - simply just because: Why waste HD space - > even if it is just 4 GB? No matter how big a HD is, it tends to be > full anyway (just like basements). ;-) There is two kinds of disks. New disks and full disks. :) Well the idea is that once you know the new version works you just delete t= he old one. You would never... well... almowt never have to reinstall becau= se an upgrade fail.=20 Also a lot of work is put into the Ubuntu upgrader and still its never guar= anteed to work. By just creating a new OS image with the new version upgrad= ing becomes simple. And as both versions initially run side by side you wil= l not end up with a failed update that does not work. =20 > I think, we are going to much in detail to be discussed here, but > anyway, good that those things have been mentioned... Yeah, probably. :) > --=20 > Martin Wildam >=20 > http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 11:29:57 -0000 Message-Id: <383953.36072.qm@web24101.mail.ird.yahoo.com> I think the main advantage is more eyeballs on the code and devs earning re= spect=20 when they write good code.=C2=A0 Pride in one's work and admiration in othe= r people's=20 code lead to some OpenSource devs earning almost Rock-God status and others= =20 hiding behind apologies for temporary kludges.=C2=A0 If you know that no-on= e is going=20 to read your code again and have to throw something together in a hurry to = earn=20 a pay-packet then the quality is unlikey to be so good.=C2=A0 All this is= =C2=A0a=20 distraction from those great posts and all that about Xml and stuff --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 13:00:48 -0000 Message-Id: <4C77B700.1030404@hal-pc.org> On 08/26/2010 11:46 AM, Faldegast wrote: > Yes. We should strive to have as much hardware as possible. But still > without valuable time and money to support vendors that ignore us. > Linux/Android phones with official Linux drivers and documentation > should be supported, and so should Linux routers. However in cases where > there is a lack of supported hardware I think we should work on it > within the community. Router corporation does not support Linux? Then we > should build our own routers with components that is certified for > Linux. There are quite many of us that want such a thing so we should be > able to finance it. For example i stumbled across the Armadeus embedded > Linux board a while ago. This has been tried. When Routerboard started, it was very open... It=20 did not take the world by storm. Now it is Mikrotic, fee based, semi=20 closed, and not a shining example of FOSS.=20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Routerboard If you want to sell hardware,=20 go ahead. It is a tough, and expensive business with razor thin=20 margins. The only reason Apple has big margins is they have a lock on=20 the hardware. The only way Linux could do the same is to break support=20 for Dell, and the like. Not what I want. That all said, I will not buy anything for my company without good Linux=20 drivers. We have more Windows desktops than anything, so why do I do=20 this? Because I don't know if that desktop will ALWAYS run WinXP. I=20 still have an old Visioneer Paperport scanner that has never been used.=20 No drivers for the system. Just old Win95 drivers unless you want to=20 BUY the new ones. Permanent hardware blacklist. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 15:28:23 -0000 Message-Id: > On 08/26/2010 11:46 AM, Faldegast wrote: >=20 > > Yes. We should strive to have as much hardware as possible. But still > > without valuable time and money to support vendors that ignore us. > > Linux/Android phones with official Linux drivers and documentation > > should be supported, and so should Linux routers. However in cases where > > there is a lack of supported hardware I think we should work on it > > within the community. Router corporation does not support Linux? Then we > > should build our own routers with components that is certified for > > Linux. There are quite many of us that want such a thing so we should be > > able to finance it. For example i stumbled across the Armadeus embedded > > Linux board a while ago. >=20 > This has been tried. When Routerboard started, it was very open... It=20 > did not take the world by storm. Now it is Mikrotic, fee based, semi=20 > closed, and not a shining example of FOSS.=20 > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Routerboard If you want to sell hardware,=20 > go ahead. It is a tough, and expensive business with razor thin=20 > margins. The only reason Apple has big margins is they have a lock on=20 > the hardware. The only way Linux could do the same is to break support=20 > for Dell, and the like. Not what I want. Its not a shining example of FOSS but its still Linux and far more FOSS the= n others. By the way thank you for the link, i have been locking for someth= ing like this. By the number of products they seam to have I would guess th= at the project have been a success. =20 > That all said, I will not buy anything for my company without good Linux = > drivers. We have more Windows desktops than anything, so why do I do=20 > this? Because I don't know if that desktop will ALWAYS run WinXP. I=20 > still have an old Visioneer Paperport scanner that has never been used.=20 > No drivers for the system. Just old Win95 drivers unless you want to=20 > BUY the new ones. Permanent hardware blacklist. Yeah. As long as there are Linux drivers you can always run Windows in KVM = or VirtualBox, utilizing the Linux drivers. Also Hardware that support Linu= x is usually of better quality that Hardware that dont. So there are many r= easons to stick to Linux hardware when you can. It would even be possible t= o port a Linux driver using the Windows DDK, but if it comes to that its pr= obably more painless to just replace the hardware... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 16:22:39 -0000 Message-Id: <4C77E64F.1000204@hal-pc.org> On 08/27/2010 11:28 AM, Faldegast wrote: > Its not a shining example of FOSS but its still Linux and far more FOSS then others. By the way thank you for the link, i have been locking for something like this. By the number of products they seam to have I would guess that the project have been a success. Way off topic, but I had to add to this... Instead, use m0n0wall=20 http://m0n0.ch/wall/ or pfSense http://www.pfsense.com/ which are both=20 much more in the ideal of FOSS, totally open, much more feature rich,=20 and work on several different embedded systems. And I am not just=20 saying this as an active member of the m0n0wall project. :) (However,=20 it is FreeBSD, which may upset some people) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: NoaHall (noah-co-uk) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 16:31:43 -0000 Message-Id: <20100829163145.12887.29544.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Won't fix. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Bilal Akhtar (bilalakhtar) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 16:57:08 -0000 Message-Id: <20100829165709.12955.62411.malone@wampee.canonical.com> We never tolerate such stupid comments and/or bug changes/closures. Bug 1 will be open until we overcome Windows' marketshare or the world ends. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 11:55:55 -0000 Message-Id: <842581.4602.qm@web24103.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) I was looking for this for a previous post about the meaning of the word "h= ack" http://catb.org/jargon/html/meaning-of-hack.html Found the right page at last and thought some people here might enjoy some = of=20 the rest of the stories and stuff in there Good luck and regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 07:40:29 -0000 Message-Id: After all the critics on Ubuntu or it's community - I want to clearly state, that 1. I appreciate the community A LOT! It gives me a good feeling of not being left alone with the computer problems. And I know what I am talking about because I experienced also the prior-internet times where I was pretty alone with all problems coming up - I had a few fellows in school I could talk about but that was it. 2. Although there are a few things that are very annoying, the overall experience with the computer for me got much more positive since my move to Linux and even more when switching from Fedora to Ubuntu. 3. Looking at the relations - e.g Red Hat having about 3200, Novell about 3600, IBM more than 300000(!) and Canonical having just about 350 employees - Canonical should not be criticized too much for not contributing enough to Linux as a whole (which I read several times during the last months). 4. Of course I appreciate the work of ALL companies and people contributing to the Linux kernel, Gnome and all the other software pieces that are part of the whole Linux repositories. Without those the naked OS would be nothing worth looking at. 5. If I would put all the time I invested into Linux with testing and bug reporting or simply documenting stuff (even if mostly only in forums and on my blog so far although it is my plan to do more contributions on the Wiki) into money numbers, I could have bought a Windows license + a bulk of commercial software - but: I and everybody else participating is MAKING THIS BETTER! - This is the big difference. With the investment you help to make it better. This is very different from investing into license fees where you don't know what will be done with the money. You help to make it better for everyone else and others are helping you out either with their contributions. This is true cooperation - win-win-situations. So everyone contributing - be proud and receive my thanks. --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 12:11:52 -0000 Message-Id: <200595.55664.qm@web24108.mail.ird.yahoo.com> "The time I invested into Linux". I think this is a crucial difference. W= ith=20 linux any time spent in dealing with problems is an investment that can be = built=20 on and stays relevant to future releasea/versions and even side-ways onto=20 different distros. With Windows it often seems to lead to a new dead-end. I agree with the rest of the points especially about very much appreciating= the=20 community. Ubuntu does seem to get a bit of flak about not contributing to the wider l= inux=20 community but i think it has a crucial role as=20 gatekeeper/door-person/greeter/receptionist. It is the main distro that pe= ople=20 first try or first settle with when they first try to migrate from Windows.= I=20 know a few people from Answers that have gone onwards to become developers = and=20 sometimes migrated upstream or to other distros. If it fulfills no other r= ole i=20 would say it has a crucial job in welcoming people into the=20 gnu&linux/gnu&hurd/Bsd world. A role it almost shares with Chrome and Appl= e,=20 for all their faults too. Many regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: yajo (yajodj) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 10:08:30 -0000 Message-Id: <20100924100830.21588.46356.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> This is also very widespread in Spain. Some months ago I bought a computer and it was absolutely impossible to fin= d one without this bug. I had to fix it manually. Patch: # sudo apt-get remove windows --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 16:58:26 -0000 Message-Id: Hi, I have 4 computers that I cannot even install Ubuntu on because Ubuntu does not have the necessary drivers. There are another 2 that I can install Ubuntu on but because the video drivers are not very good they do not function at full capacity and my add-in cards don't have drivers for Ubuntu. My systems are high-end machines, not your stock stuff that Ubuntu works on. So you see until Ubuntu makes drivers for all these wonderful add-in cards and proper video drivers Ubuntu will not exist in my house. CIAO! Gentilli. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 11:03 AM, kredh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > ** Branch linked: lp:kassie > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 17:23:49 -0000 Message-Id: <4CBF25A5.20403@hal-pc.org> On 10/20/2010 12:58 PM, Setve Gentilly wrote: > Hi, > I have 4 computers that I cannot even install Ubuntu on because Ubuntu do= es > not have the necessary drivers. > There are another 2 that I can install Ubuntu on but because the video > drivers are not very good they do not function at full capacity and my > add-in cards don't have drivers for Ubuntu. > My systems are high-end machines, not your stock stuff that Ubuntu works = on. > So you see until Ubuntu makes drivers for all these wonderful add-in cards > and proper video drivers Ubuntu will not exist in my house. I don't believe you. I have high end machines too... They all work.=20 (About 25) Some took some effort, but only a few systems with old and=20 cheap stuff. This is being typed on a Gigabyte X58A-UD3R motherboard=20 with a Inetl Corei7 Quad core, and nVidia GTS250 graphics with 24 gig of=20 ram. (Work system, so that is why the low end graphics) Worked out of=20 the box with Lucid. I believe there is a lot more to your story. Like=20 perhaps your "high end" stuff is the cheapest Chinese components you can=20 source... And they don't have drivers? Those can take a bit=20 more effort. Or perhaps the well known Intel i855 graphics chipset bug?=20 (Fixed in Maverik, by the way) Only being willing to put an hour into learning a new system is not a=20 bug we can easily patch. But if you want help, go ahead and e-mail me. I bet I can find drivers=20 for much of your stuff. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 18:21:13 -0000 Message-Id: Hi again, Let me explain it another way so that you may have a better idea of what I am trying to explain here. I only buy products from some of the following manufactures; XFX, EVGA, Asus, Cooler Master, OCZ, Westen Digital, Silverstone, Corsair, Samsung, etc., etc., etc. When I get a new system (which I get regularly) after it is assembled it take me 1 to 1.5 hours to install Windows, the drivers and the necessary software to get it to function at 100% efficiency. I don't have the time to fart around and mess with Operating systems and drivers that don't even run on a double click from the mouse, nor do I have the time to learn a new programing language (although I do know a few), no thank you. Let me give you an example, I installed Ubuntu 10.10RC on an AMD machine with an Asus board and an XFX HD 5770. When it came time to install the ATI drivers from ATI, I ran the package and it said nothing to me so I rebooted and guess what, it was not installed. So I then proceeded to install the third party drivers that Ubuntu suggested. Well, what a great performing card........ It gave 50GFLOPS instead of the 1400GFLOPS Windows gives me. I don't have time to fart around for days or weeks to get the machine working 100%. When Ubuntu is as easy to install as Windows, then I will have another look at it. Not till then....... Regards, Gentilli. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:23 PM, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > On 10/20/2010 12:58 PM, Setve Gentilly wrote: > > Hi, > > I have 4 computers that I cannot even install Ubuntu on because Ubuntu > does > > not have the necessary drivers. > > There are another 2 that I can install Ubuntu on but because the video > > drivers are not very good they do not function at full capacity and my > > add-in cards don't have drivers for Ubuntu. > > My systems are high-end machines, not your stock stuff that Ubuntu works > on. > > So you see until Ubuntu makes drivers for all these wonderful add-in > cards > > and proper video drivers Ubuntu will not exist in my house. > > I don't believe you. I have high end machines too... They all work. > (About 25) Some took some effort, but only a few systems with old and > cheap stuff. This is being typed on a Gigabyte X58A-UD3R motherboard > with a Inetl Corei7 Quad core, and nVidia GTS250 graphics with 24 gig of > ram. (Work system, so that is why the low end graphics) Worked out of > the box with Lucid. I believe there is a lot more to your story. Like > perhaps your "high end" stuff is the cheapest Chinese components you can > source... And they don't have drivers? Those can take a bit > more effort. Or perhaps the well known Intel i855 graphics chipset bug? > (Fixed in Maverik, by the way) > > Only being willing to put an hour into learning a new system is not a > bug we can easily patch. > > But if you want help, go ahead and e-mail me. I bet I can find drivers > for much of your stuff. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Randall Ross (randall) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 18:37:57 -0000 Message-Id: <4CBF3705.2080101@executiv.es> Did you bother to check which systems are certified first? http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification/ Think of your experiences in the Windows world. You likely have used hardware that is stickered "Windows Ready", "Works with Windows" etc. The Ubuntu world is no different, and Ubuntu does NOT work on everything. Please reset expectations accordingly. More here if you are interested: http://randall.executiv.es/uwoe3 On 10-10-20 11:21 AM, Setve Gentilly wrote: > Hi again, > > Let me explain it another way so that you may have a better idea of what I > am trying to explain here. > > I only buy products from some of the following manufactures; XFX, EVGA, > Asus, Cooler Master, OCZ, Westen Digital, Silverstone, Corsair, Samsung, > etc., etc., etc. > When I get a new system (which I get regularly) after it is assembled it > take me 1 to 1.5 hours to install Windows, the drivers and the necessary > software to get it to function at 100% efficiency. I don't have the time= to > fart around and mess with Operating systems and drivers that don't even r= un > on a double click from the mouse, nor do I have the time to learn a new > programing language (although I do know a few), no thank you. > Let me give you an example, I installed Ubuntu 10.10RC on an AMD machine > with an Asus board and an XFX HD 5770. When it came time to install the = ATI > drivers from ATI, I ran the package and it said nothing to me so I reboot= ed > and guess what, it was not installed. So I then proceeded to install the > third party drivers that Ubuntu suggested. Well, what a great performing > card........ It gave 50GFLOPS instead of the 1400GFLOPS Windows gives me. > I don't have time to fart around for days or weeks to get the machine > working 100%. > > When Ubuntu is as easy to install as Windows, then I will have another lo= ok > at it. > Not till then....... > > Regards, > Gentilli. > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:23 PM, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> > wrote: > >> On 10/20/2010 12:58 PM, Setve Gentilly wrote: >>> Hi, >>> I have 4 computers that I cannot even install Ubuntu on because Ubuntu >> does >>> not have the necessary drivers. >>> There are another 2 that I can install Ubuntu on but because the video >>> drivers are not very good they do not function at full capacity and my >>> add-in cards don't have drivers for Ubuntu. >>> My systems are high-end machines, not your stock stuff that Ubuntu works >> on. >>> So you see until Ubuntu makes drivers for all these wonderful add-in >> cards >>> and proper video drivers Ubuntu will not exist in my house. >> I don't believe you. I have high end machines too... They all work. >> (About 25) Some took some effort, but only a few systems with old and >> cheap stuff. This is being typed on a Gigabyte X58A-UD3R motherboard >> with a Inetl Corei7 Quad core, and nVidia GTS250 graphics with 24 gig of >> ram. (Work system, so that is why the low end graphics) Worked out of >> the box with Lucid. I believe there is a lot more to your story. Like >> perhaps your "high end" stuff is the cheapest Chinese components you can >> source... And they don't have drivers? Those can take a bit >> more effort. Or perhaps the well known Intel i855 graphics chipset bug? >> (Fixed in Maverik, by the way) >> >> Only being willing to put an hour into learning a new system is not a >> bug we can easily patch. >> >> But if you want help, go ahead and e-mail me. I bet I can find drivers >> for much of your stuff. >> >> --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 18:59:26 -0000 Message-Id: <55329.96108.qm@web24107.mail.ird.yahoo.com> So 30mins to install Ubuntu against 1hr30 to install Windows. Did the Windows system then need upgrades or additional software? After th= e=20 first round of updates and reboot were all the drivers, codecs and new pro= grams=20 all up-to-date and fully patched? Installing a system you know well (Windows), with the standard preparation = you=20 do before an install to that particular set of hardware does not really com= pare=20 against installing a system you have no experience with and have not prepar= ed=20 for in advance. Comparing is difficult when you are not comparing like with like. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 19:05:55 -0000 Message-Id: Hi, one more time. Another example; I have a AMD system with an Ultra SCSI card from Tekram, No flavor of Ubuntu will install on those 10k Seagate drives because you don't have drivers for that card............... Regards, Gentilli. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Steve Forester wrote: > Hi again, > > Let me explain it another way so that you may have a better idea of what I > am trying to explain here. > > I only buy products from some of the following manufactures; XFX, EVGA, > Asus, Cooler Master, OCZ, Westen Digital, Silverstone, Corsair, Samsung, > etc., etc., etc. > When I get a new system (which I get regularly) after it is assembled it > take me 1 to 1.5 hours to install Windows, the drivers and the necessary > software to get it to function at 100% efficiency. I don't have the time= to > fart around and mess with Operating systems and drivers that don't even r= un > on a double click from the mouse, nor do I have the time to learn a new > programing language (although I do know a few), no thank you. > Let me give you an example, I installed Ubuntu 10.10RC on an AMD machine > with an Asus board and an XFX HD 5770. When it came time to install the = ATI > drivers from ATI, I ran the package and it said nothing to me so I reboot= ed > and guess what, it was not installed. So I then proceeded to install the > third party drivers that Ubuntu suggested. Well, what a great performing > card........ It gave 50GFLOPS instead of the 1400GFLOPS Windows gives me. > I don't have time to fart around for days or weeks to get the machine > working 100%. > > When Ubuntu is as easy to install as Windows, then I will have another lo= ok > at it. > Not till then....... > > Regards, > Gentilli. > > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:23 PM, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > >> On 10/20/2010 12:58 PM, Setve Gentilly wrote: >> > Hi, >> > I have 4 computers that I cannot even install Ubuntu on because Ubuntu >> does >> > not have the necessary drivers. >> > There are another 2 that I can install Ubuntu on but because the video >> > drivers are not very good they do not function at full capacity and my >> > add-in cards don't have drivers for Ubuntu. >> > My systems are high-end machines, not your stock stuff that Ubuntu wor= ks >> on. >> > So you see until Ubuntu makes drivers for all these wonderful add-in >> cards >> > and proper video drivers Ubuntu will not exist in my house. >> >> I don't believe you. I have high end machines too... They all work. >> (About 25) Some took some effort, but only a few systems with old and >> cheap stuff. This is being typed on a Gigabyte X58A-UD3R motherboard >> with a Inetl Corei7 Quad core, and nVidia GTS250 graphics with 24 gig of >> ram. (Work system, so that is why the low end graphics) Worked out of >> the box with Lucid. I believe there is a lot more to your story. Like >> perhaps your "high end" stuff is the cheapest Chinese components you can >> source... And they don't have drivers? Those can take a bit >> more effort. Or perhaps the well known Intel i855 graphics chipset bug? >> (Fixed in Maverik, by the way) >> >> Only being willing to put an hour into learning a new system is not a >> bug we can easily patch. >> >> But if you want help, go ahead and e-mail me. I bet I can find drivers >> for much of your stuff. >> >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber >> of the bug. >> >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: New >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inv= alid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potentia= l, >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like >> Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >> >> > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 19:14:12 -0000 Message-Id: <4CBF3F84.6050101@hal-pc.org> On 10/20/2010 02:21 PM, Setve Gentilly wrote: > When I get a new system (which I get regularly) after it is assembled it > take me 1 to 1.5 hours to install Windows, the drivers and the necessary > software to get it to function at 100% efficiency. I don't have the time= to > fart around and mess with Operating systems and drivers that don't even r= un > on a double click from the mouse, nor do I have the time to learn a new > programing language (although I do know a few), no thank you. I have expertise in both Windows and Linux. Windows takes longer.=20 Mainly it is the massive amount of reboots between updates and drivers.=20 Also, the install is far to interactive, not set it and forget it. As=20 an aside, the only programming language I know is Perl, and I haven't=20 really used in in years. > Let me give you an example, I installed Ubuntu 10.10RC on an AMD machine > with an Asus board and an XFX HD 5770. When it came time to install the = ATI > drivers from ATI, I ran the package and it said nothing to me so I reboot= ed > and guess what, it was not installed. So I then proceeded to install the > third party drivers that Ubuntu suggested. Well, what a great performing > card........ It gave 50GFLOPS instead of the 1400GFLOPS Windows gives me. > I don't have time to fart around for days or weeks to get the machine > working 100%. You installed a beta, and it was not perfect? Really? And those Vista=20 betas were so smooth... And you had ATI driver problems? That is=20 surely an Ubuntu issue.=20 http://www.google.com/search?q=3Dati+driver+problems Or maybe not. And=20 why did you go the the ATI website first? Oh, yes... You picked up=20 that habit from Windows. In Ubuntu, you go to the repos first. And=20 yes, the ATI Linux drivers are worse than the Windows drivers for many=20 ATI cards. One reason I like nVidia. (On both platforms) > When Ubuntu is as easy to install as Windows, then I will have another lo= ok > at it. You want Ubuntu to be as easy for a beginner to install with no=20 experience as Windows is for an expert with years of experience. That=20 is the bug... Unreasonable expectations. And the thought that=20 "Windows" is "Computer" and if you know "Windows" you know "computers."=20 Not so helpfull with Mac, Linux, HP-UX, Aix, Solaris, AS400, VMS, or a=20 number of accounting specific systems. Now if you give the same test to=20 your grandmother, I bet Linux is easier. And this is the reason I responded. People keep looking at the wrong=20 bug. The bug is that we did not tell you this BEFORE you started. Now=20 it is too late... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Cariaga (mzc) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 19:24:41 -0000 Message-Id: It takes an entire day to install windows!!!!! This includes updates.. plus apps etc.. Ubuntu takes at least 2 hrs which includes updates, apps, mods and blings, etc. Granted that you have good internet bandwidth. On Oct 20, 2010 12:07 PM, "Tom" <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > So 30mins to install Ubuntu against 1hr30 to install Windows. > > Did the Windows system then need upgrades or additional software? After the > first round of updates and reboot were all the drivers, codecs and new programs > all up-to-date and fully patched? > > Installing a system you know well (Windows), with the standard preparation you > do before an install to that particular set of hardware does not really compare > against installing a system you have no experience with and have not prepared > for in advance. > > Comparing is difficult when you are not comparing like with like. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Randall Ross (randall) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 19:24:48 -0000 Message-Id: <4CBF4200.2080309@executiv.es> Not certified (yet). The complete list of Ubuntu-certified systems is here: http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification/ On 10-10-20 12:05 PM, Setve Gentilly wrote: > Hi, one more time. > > Another example; I have a AMD system with an Ultra SCSI card from Tekram, > No flavor of Ubuntu will install on those 10k Seagate drives because you > don't have drivers for that card............... > > Regards, > Gentilli. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Randall Ross (randall) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 19:29:24 -0000 Message-Id: <4CBF4314.2020205@executiv.es> Quite true. If you've ever watched a new user work with Ubuntu, you'll likely have noticed that they have a much easier time than "experienced" computer users. No bad habits to unlearn, and they tend to involve themselves less with "tinkering" on unsupported (and uncertified) hardware. > You want Ubuntu to be as easy for a beginner to install with no=20 > experience as Windows is for an expert with years of experience. That=20 > is the bug... Unreasonable expectations. And the thought that=20 > "Windows" is "Computer" and if you know "Windows" you know "computers."=20 > Not so helpfull with Mac, Linux, HP-UX, Aix, Solaris, AS400, VMS, or a = > number of accounting specific systems. Now if you give the same test to = > your grandmother, I bet Linux is easier. > > And this is the reason I responded. People keep looking at the wrong=20 > bug. The bug is that we did not tell you this BEFORE you started. Now=20 > it is too late... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 19:31:01 -0000 Message-Id: <42708.12621.qm@web24105.mail.ird.yahoo.com> If you choose quite a variety of hardware then Windows wont work. Entire r= anges=20 of cpu chips are supported by linux but not by Windows. Entire types of=20 products perform really badly with Windows (such as netbooks) but work real= ly=20 fast with linux. All the space-station systems went down due to a virus, a= t=20 least all the Windows systems but command&control was fine because it was a= ll on=20 linux. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: skybon (skybon-deactivatedaccount-deactivatedaccount) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 19:37:28 -0000 Message-Id: In terminal: sudo apt-add-repository ppa:ubuntu-x-swat && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade and you have 3D acceleration. On 20 October 2010 22:21, Setve Gentilly <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Hi again, > > Let me explain it another way so that you may have a better idea of what I > am trying to explain here. > >When it came time to install the ATI > drivers from ATI, I ran the package and it said nothing to me so I reboot= ed > and guess what, it was not installed. So I then proceeded to install the > third party drivers that Ubuntu suggested. =C2=A0Well, what a great perfo= rming > card........ It gave 50GFLOPS instead of the 1400GFLOPS Windows gives me. > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:23 PM, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> > wrote: > >> On 10/20/2010 12:58 PM, Setve Gentilly wrote: >> > Hi, >> > I have 4 computers that I cannot even install Ubuntu on because Ubuntu >> does >> > not have the necessary drivers. >> > There are another 2 that I can install Ubuntu on but because the video >> > drivers are not very good they do not function at full capacity and my >> > add-in cards don't have drivers for Ubuntu. >> > My systems are high-end machines, not your stock stuff that Ubuntu wor= ks >> on. >> > So you see until Ubuntu makes drivers for all these wonderful add-in >> cards >> > and proper video drivers Ubuntu will not exist in my house. >> >> I don't believe you. =C2=A0I have high end machines too... =C2=A0They al= l work. >> (About 25) =C2=A0Some took some effort, but only a few systems with old = and >> cheap stuff. =C2=A0This is being typed on a Gigabyte X58A-UD3R motherboa= rd >> with a Inetl Corei7 Quad core, and nVidia GTS250 graphics with 24 gig of >> ram. =C2=A0(Work system, so that is why the low end graphics) =C2=A0Work= ed out of >> the box with Lucid. =C2=A0I believe there is a lot more to your story. = =C2=A0Like >> perhaps your "high end" stuff is the cheapest Chinese components you can >> source... =C2=A0And they don't have drivers? =C2=A0 =C2=A0Those c= an take a bit >> more effort. =C2=A0Or perhaps the well known Intel i855 graphics chipset= bug? >> =C2=A0(Fixed in Maverik, by the way) >> >> Only being willing to put an hour into learning a new system is not a >> bug we can easily patch. >> >> But if you want help, go ahead and e-mail me. =C2=A0I bet I can find dri= vers >> for much of your stuff. >> >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber >> of the bug. >> >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: New >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inv= alid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potentia= l, >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like >> Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >> >> > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the= ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. Th= is bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-ins= talled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 19:43:06 -0000 Message-Id: <997248.19504.qm@web24105.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Mzc, quite! My point exactly. The little bit that takes 1hr30 in Windows o= nly=20 takes 30 in Ubuntu with the difference that Ubuntu then has a stack of Offi= ce=20 apps and stuff to use. Windows would be a little empty. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: skybon (skybon-deactivatedaccount-deactivatedaccount) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 19:45:48 -0000 Message-Id: Sorry for the offtop but could you please provide the link for the news about space station virus?? Oo On 20 October 2010 23:31, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > If you choose quite a variety of hardware then Windows wont work. =C2=A0E= ntire ranges > of cpu chips are supported by linux but not by Windows. =C2=A0Entire type= s of > products perform really badly with Windows (such as netbooks) but work re= ally > fast with linux. =C2=A0All the space-station systems went down due to a v= irus, at > least all the Windows systems but command&control was fine because it was= all on > linux. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the= ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. Th= is bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-ins= talled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > --=20 Artem Karimov (https://launchpad.net/~a.karimov) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 20:25:43 -0000 Message-Id: Hi guys, Well it still comes down to not having drivers for stuff. Thank you guys for your time, but when Ubuntu is more compatible I will have another look at it. Regards, Gentilli. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 3:24 PM, mzc <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > It takes an entire day to install windows!!!!! This includes updates.. pl= us > apps etc.. Ubuntu takes at least 2 hrs which includes updates, apps, mods > and blings, etc. Granted that you have good internet bandwidth. > On Oct 20, 2010 12:07 PM, "Tom" <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > > So 30mins to install Ubuntu against 1hr30 to install Windows. > > > > Did the Windows system then need upgrades or additional software? After > the > > first round of updates and reboot were all the drivers, codecs and new > programs > > all up-to-date and fully patched? > > > > Installing a system you know well (Windows), with the standard > preparation > you > > do before an install to that particular set of hardware does not really > compare > > against installing a system you have no experience with and have not > prepared > > for in advance. > > > > Comparing is difficult when you are not comparing like with like. > > > > -- > > Microsoft has a majority market share > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > > of the bug. > > > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > > Status in Tv-Player: New > > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In= valid > > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > > > Bug description: > > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > > > Steps to repeat: > > > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > > > What happens: > > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > > > What should happen: > > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 20:41:35 -0000 Message-Id: <1287607295.7339.58.camel@JnS-002-C2D> Hi guys. I don't mean to be rude; I just want the message to be perfectly clear because we've been through this shit for like million times already and I'm simply getting sick and tired of hearing the same stupid whining over and over again. Bad hardware support is always caused by stupid hardware manufacturers and not the operating system in question, because someone needs to write the damn drivers! If you leave that up to them, they pretty much always end up spitting out some half broken piece of binary crap, not to mention they probably won't even bother if the particular operating system isn't used by what they believe to be enough of their potential customers. I guess you can see why we have a problem with that and every single operating system is gonna be plagued by the exact same problem until it reaches critical mass. In fact, all they need to do in order for their stuff to be fully and reliably supported on free operating systems is to publicly release the programming documentation (because writing properly working drivers without it within reasonable time frame is impossible), but many of them are simply too stupid to understand that. Until that changes, we're simply screwed, because we're stuck with either crap that can (and will) stop working any time or with nothing at all and there's absolutely not a damn thing you can do about that by yet another pointless GNU/Linux (BSD, Solaris, whatever) rant! So, unless you have some constructive criticism or other valuable ideas, please go post your whining somewhere else! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 21:05:49 -0000 Message-Id: <4CBF59AD.4000002@hal-pc.org> On 10/20/2010 04:41 PM, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB wrote: > ... not to mention they probably won't even bother if the > particular operating system isn't used by what they believe to be enough > of their potential customers. I guess you can see why we have a problem > with that and every single operating system is gonna be plagued by the > exact same problem until it reaches critical mass. This happens with Windows as well. Why write a new driver just because=20 the new version of Windows doesn't work with it? With bad drivers, you=20 will get bit, whatever OS you run. I have a lovely PaperPort scanner=20 that I keep around as just such an object lesson. It only has Windows=20 95 drivers unless you BUY a new one for more than the cost of a scanner.=20 This is not a Linux bug, but for some reason, Linux gets the blame,=20 and Windows and the hardware manufactures get a pass. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 21:21:13 -0000 Message-Id: <1287609673.7339.60.camel@JnS-002-C2D> > With bad drivers, you will get bit, whatever OS you run. > This is not a Linux bug, but for some reason, Linux gets the blame, and W= indows and the hardware manufactures get a pass. My point exactly. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 21:48:36 -0000 Message-Id: <1287611316.7339.84.camel@JnS-002-C2D> > This is not a Linux bug, but for some reason, Linux gets the blame, and Windows and the hardware manufactures get a pass. One more thing: I'm incredibly sorry to say so, but I forgot to mention that "that reason" is probably more and more people being stupid and getting more and more stupid as the time passes - that's a sad fact that probably just about every teacher out there can confirm (I recently joined the club and pretty much the whole class - almost all of them senior teacher professionals - seems to be thinking the same); no offence to anyone here intended. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Randall Ross (randall) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 22:10:00 -0000 Message-Id: <4CBF68B8.7080305@executiv.es> The concept of a computer being a "bicycle for the mind" might be helpful here, and might be worth revisiting. If we (society) are "training" our students purely to be "users" (consumers) of software then we will see the exact effect that you describe (in the domain of OS'es and computing, at least). (Bug #1 has in effect created a whole generation of consumers who view computers as a way to get to entertainment). We should instead be aiming to teach people to be creators and contributors, so their information access tools remain robust and enable any one to get to any and all information they need to educate themselves. Ubuntu is taking that challenge head-on. However, we're still not able to channel all the energy that is lost to distractions such as Facebook, YouTube, Farmville, WoW, and similar things that also tend to "dumb down" (or at least divert). That will require a lot more code... On 10-10-20 02:48 PM, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB wrote: > One more thing: > I'm incredibly sorry to say so, but I forgot to mention that "that > reason" is probably more and more people being stupid and getting more > and more stupid as the time passes - that's a sad fact that probably > just about every teacher out there can confirm (I recently joined the > club and pretty much the whole class - almost all of them senior teacher > professionals - seems to be thinking the same); no offence to anyone > here intended. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 22:32:55 -0000 Message-Id: <1287613975.7339.112.camel@JnS-002-C2D> > If we (society) are "training" our students purely to be "users" (consumers) of software then we will see the exact effect that you describe (in the domain of OS'es and computing, at least). (Bug #1 has in effect created a whole generation of consumers who view computers as a way to get to entertainment). In other words "we get what we deserve/ask for". Maybe we should really change the status to "won't fix" after all, for obvious reasons; but I guess it's better to stay positive and go on with "in progress", waiting for a radical global change of mind (hopefully somewhere in the near future) or we're screwed anyway. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Kip Warner (kip) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 01:18:39 -0000 Message-Id: <20101021011839.21603.30591.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Beautifully said Randall. You touched the essence of why the consumer zombies just doesn't understand the world of free software. They generally just want to consume and produce nothing. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 05:19:47 -0000 Message-Id: Hi Kip, I would like you to understand the following, I hate Microsoft, I hate what they are doing, I hate what they stand for and what I hate the most is having to pay hard earned money for 0's and 1's. I love the Open Source concept and it should be the *ONLY* way to go. There is NOTHING MORE I would like than to be able to use Ubuntu on all my machines. I am constantly looking for Microsoft alternatives. I have been in computers since 1992 and all my learned experience is on Dos, Windows (Microsoft Certifications), some Netware and very little on Linux. I am now retired and for some weird reason I am busier now than I was in the past. I do a lot of charitable work repairing and fixing defective computers for people who cannot afford to bring their PC's to the repair shop. Unfortunately 99% of the people have Windows installed on their PC's. And that I can fix. I would love nothing better than to replace some of these people's unlicensed OS with Ubuntu. But unfortunately I don't have the know how or experience to do that because I don't find Ubuntu user friendly (from a Windows perspective). So if one of you SMUCKS (wink, lol) is willing to put the effort in my proposed project, then I am willing to put in 150% effort to do this. And yes I will become responsible for spreading Ubuntu on (at least) a small to medium scale. What do you think, can we do this??????????????????? Best regards, Gentilli. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 9:18 PM, Kip Warner wrote: > Beautifully said Randall. You touched the essence of why the consumer > zombies just doesn't understand the world of free software. They > generally just want to consume and produce nothing. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Kip Warner (kip) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 07:22:53 -0000 Message-Id: <1287645773.2359.17.camel@kip-laptop> On Thu, 2010-10-21 at 05:19 +0000, Setve Gentilly wrote: > I would love nothing better than to replace some of these > people's unlicensed OS with Ubuntu. > But unfortunately I don't have the know how or experience to do that beca= use > I don't find Ubuntu user friendly (from a Windows perspective). I had my mother and others on Ubuntu because, besides ethical concerns with non-free software, I didn't find Windows or OS X to be user friendly. So you see, we echo one another. There is an old saying, There is no technical solution to an attitude problem.=20 You must be more specific in what you did not find user friendly. --=20 Kip Warner -- Software Engineer OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred http://www.thevertigo.com --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 08:10:38 -0000 Message-Id: <962534.33864.qm@web24103.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) There is not really any "must do" in linux. Linux seems to be about offeri= ng=20 choices, about offering freedom OF choice. As we know Windows provides fre= edom=20 FROM choice and so it is the preference for most people. I found the best way to learn how to install and use linux was to learn how= to=20 install it as a dual-boot and switch the default so that it boots into Wind= ows=20 automatically unless i was fast enough to choose linux at boot-up. This meant i could deal with problems at my own pace without being unable t= o use=20 the machine in the normal ways i was used to. Now when i help people with ther machine's i put a dual-boot of a linux, us= ually=20 Ubuntu but not always (there are smaller and lighter distros for Win98 mach= ines)=20 and then sort the usual stuff such as "Medibuntu" and install "Gimp" fo pho= to=20 editing. I find "medibuntu" tends to sort all multimedia issues without me= =20 having to find drivers for things https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Medibuntu Finally i set-up firefox with bookmarks into Community and official=20 documentation, the 2 main Answers Forums (launchpad (that is this one) and = ubuntuforums.com) and also to the general linux answers forum at http://www.linuxquestions.org and usually to the rather excellent distrowatch because i know that soem=20 discussion about other distros will crop up in conversations later http://distrowatch.com Then after i hand the machine back they hardly ever notice that linux is on= =20 their machine until we have a few chats over the next few weeks. When people have found that Windows still works normally and better/faster = for=20 the fixes i have done then it is a bit late for them to freak out about the= FUD=20 they have probably heard about it. Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 08:47:06 -0000 Message-Id: On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 20:37, Randall Ross (rrnwexec) wrote: > Did you bother to check which systems are certified first? > http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification/ > > Think of your experiences in the Windows world. You likely have used > hardware that is stickered "Windows Ready", "Works with Windows" etc. > > The Ubuntu world is no different, and Ubuntu does NOT work on > everything. Please reset expectations accordingly. Although Ubuntu runs on a lot of hardware that is not listed there and no certification has been done, people should simply prefer the hardware that is certified or at least known to work. Simply becauce: Manufacturer's first aim is to work with Windows because that is the majority of people and this simply is what gets preinstalled in the vast majority of cases when shipping the thingy. Some manufacturers have looked beond the the rim of the plate and see that the world around M$ is wide and large and take this into consideration, like Dell or Lenovo for example. If people buying stuff do not explicitely prefer the more compatible hardware manufacturers also will not change their habits. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 20:59, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > So 30mins to install Ubuntu against 1hr30 to install Windows. > > Did the Windows system then need upgrades or additional software? After = the > first round of updates and reboot were all the drivers, codecs and new p= rograms > all up-to-date and fully patched? Yesterday I tried to install an MS Office plugin from M$. Result: Half an hour of applying necessary updates including upgrading to IE8 (and I have no plain idea why IE8 needed in that case)... - and the machine had applied all updates before... > Installing a system you know well (Windows), with the standard preparatio= n you > do before an install to that particular set of hardware does not really c= ompare > against installing a system you have no experience with and have not prep= ared > for in advance. Yeah, people used Windows many, many years and then they expect to do the transition in a day. Although I think that Ubuntu can be learned quite quickly (just to think of the plenty of forums and documentation available - or the very helpful community), my experience is that a standard low experienced home user needs approx 2 weeks to get familiar enough to be productive - but this is an awesome short time! On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 21:14, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > I have expertise in both Windows and Linux. Windows takes longer. > Mainly it is the massive amount of reboots between updates and drivers. > Also, the install is far to interactive, not set it and forget it. If you look at the installation of Windows 2008 R2 Server for example, installation of Windows is really not very interactive - it neither asks for a host name! - It generates an automatic one that you can change later. So even less interaction than for an Ubuntu installation. That said, afterwards plenty of clicks needed to get only in the near of being productive - not to tell that Windows OS after installation is naked as a jaybird! Even the text editor that comes with it is ... - well the only word I have for it is "impertinence". > As > an aside, the only programming language I know is Perl, and I haven't > really used in in years. When I started with Linux all programming languages I knew were Windows-only. So really, there is no need to know a programming language for using Linux. That I felt strange using an OS I can't program is natural after having always been capable of programming the PCs I was working on before. - Well, I have fixed that bug in the meantime. ;-) On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 21:14, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > You want Ubuntu to be as easy for a beginner to install with no > experience as Windows is for an expert with years of experience. That > is the bug... Unreasonable expectations. And the thought that > "Windows" is "Computer" and if you know "Windows" you know "computers." > Not so helpfull with Mac, Linux, HP-UX, Aix, Solaris, AS400, VMS, or a > number of accounting specific systems. Now if you give the same test to > your grandmother, I bet Linux is easier. Full ACK! But: I agree that anyway it must get better, because there are plenty of people who care a sh* about the OS - their focus is completely different and they don't want to bother. But, that said, those people must be illuminated that: Even if they want to just pull coffee from the coffee machine or if they "just" want to drive a car, some knowledge of the thing you are using is needed to use it (efficiently). In general for every thing (be it technical or non-technical) there are some basics (knowledge, experience, training) needed to use something - and more knowledge, experience and training is needed to use something really efficient - or - to help yourself in case of a problem. - This applies for computers as well as for cars, giving presentations or even just your daily habits. And then, when people want to improve their efficiency, then it comes to the very special strength of Linux: There are plenty of different desktop environments or just window managers, plenty of look and feels, desktop elements like Docky (and the like - plenty of options available just there), look & feel, different options for writing office documents and and and... - According to your needs and focus! Remind http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven_Habits_of_Highly_Effective_Pe= ople On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 22:25, Setve Gentilly <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Well it still comes down to not having drivers for stuff. Yes. > Thank you guys for your time, but when Ubuntu is more compatible I will h= ave > another look at it. No, you missed the point: The hardware manufacturers sold the thingy to you. If you need to use Windows on that thingy because you can't use Linux - they don't care! - They only will care when nobody is buying their stuff because it is not Linux compatible! So YOU NEED TO CHANGE FIRST! Don't buy that crappy hardware! I tell everybody asking me for consulting which hardware to buy that they should look for a Linux compatible hardware, even if they don't plan to use Linux (now). Situation could be different in a year, so they should not lock themselves out from trying something new later. - Guess what: The last time I said that resulted in 2 weeks later switching to Ubuntu after the user destroyed the Windows 7 preinstall within a week. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 22:41, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrot= e: > I don't mean to be rude; I just want the message to be perfectly clear > because we've been through this shit for like million times already and > I'm simply getting sick and tired of hearing the same stupid whining > over and over again. Bad hardware support is always caused by stupid > hardware manufacturers and not the operating system in question, because > someone needs to write the damn drivers! You nailed it! On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 00:10, Randall Ross (rrnwexec) wrote: > We should instead be aiming to teach people to be creators and > contributors, so their information access tools remain robust and enable > any one to get to any and all information they need to educate > themselves. For the very interested user, yes - but many just have different focus. E.g. a non-technical book author just wants to write his books and do conversation with readers and publishers and typically does not want bother with the OS. So most people are not going to read a bulk of documentation. Of course, for the interested user who wants to get more out of his/her PC, documentation should be at hand quickly and easy to understand. --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 09:04:52 -0000 Message-Id: <363197.59631.qm@web24104.mail.ird.yahoo.com> I find that after a decent install most people don't even notice that they = are=20 using a different OS. Firefox is there and the menus easy to navigate. =20 Documents open with a double-click. As G stated it is the install process that is the most difficult part. We = try=20 to make that easy and many people have lists of what to do after a basic in= stall=20 in blogs and websites or in magazines. Forums are quite accessible and=20 documentation aimed at noobs is quite prolific but still all the difficult = part=20 of the migration process is right at the start of using linux. This is the= =20 specific point of this bug#1 because a 'pre-installed' linux is very easy t= o=20 use. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:49:29 -0000 Message-Id: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:04, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > I find that after a decent install most people don't even notice that the= y are > using a different OS. =C2=A0Firefox is there and the menus easy to naviga= te. > Documents open with a double-click. I don't fully agree - e.g. Movie player is not playing a lot of videos. Need to use VLC for those - so VLC must be installed and for different files open with must be changed to use VLC instead of movie player by default. I tend to instruct people to first double-click and when it does not work use right mouse button and open with VLC. This is easier than trying to find a sample for each possible format and change default open. Similar applies for sound formats. And there are IMHO some other first-to-dos, be it tools to install (like gsmartcontrol, Thunderbird, ...) and some options to change. - But I don't want to complain about this because I have plenty more first-to-dos under Win* and on Ubuntu I start the Synaptic, go once through the list, ticking everything I want and then save the list to an external file and never need to do it again manually. > As G stated it is the install process that is the most difficult part. No, really, the installation is straight-forward. As with 10.10 it either already starts preparing the harddrive while I do the last inputs, is awesome - as well as WLAN already available and downloading the updates already on the go. And with net access it already knows the country I am in (regarding time settings). So there is nothing more I wish to have. > We try to make that easy and many people have lists of what to do after a= basic install > in blogs and websites or in magazines. One idea: You could grab the most used sets of pre-installations and pre-sets and offer that as additional option at installation, e.g. similar as Fedora does, asking the user for typical use "Home user, Developer, Designer/Photographer, ..." - that probably would make it easier for a lot of people and for Canonical it would be just running a few additional apt-get install lines and maybe some default configuration files. I personally already have some files containing those, so for me no problem as it. --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:07:15 -0000 Message-Id: <980447.90155.qm@web24103.mail.ird.yahoo.com> This bug report is not about how difficult or easy OSes are to install. It= is=20 about how difficult it is to buy a machine with a decent OS pre-installed. @ Martin I think we are agreeing but have semantic differences. Imo an install is n= ot=20 complete until the system is tweaked and made usable for the use the user=20 requires. A basic install of Windows is not ready to use imo. A basic ins= tall=20 of Ubuntu is also not fully ready (imo) but has stuff ready to use that Win= dows=20 doesn't and usually takes less to get it ready. To get Windows to the same level as Ubuntu you have to install many program= s=20 such as Office (i would use OpenOffice in Windows, not MicroSquish Office, = and=20 Firefox not IE for safety and security). 'Obviously' for OpenOffice/LibreO= ffice=20 i would do=20 Tools - Options - Load/Save to set all the defaults to the unsafe ".doc" and ".xls" ones that people pr= efer=20 in the Windows-world. Then both Windows & Ubuntu need multimedia players (Vlc for both, also MPla= yer=20 for Ubuntu and hopefully Zoom Player for Windows), Gimp (for both) and whic= hever=20 other packages the user would appear to need from whatever they have been=20 talking about, mostly Ubuntu already covers those but Windows doesn't. Ubu= ntu=20 makes a lot of that easy by following the Community Documentation Medibuntu= page=20 but there are countless blogs, magazines and stuff either in the fake-world= or=20 online that cover the multimedia issues. Both Windows and Ubuntu need drivers for any oddly awkward hardware. For U= buntu=20 these are mostly online but it may take some hunting to find them. For Win= dows=20 you might need to find that crusty old Cd that came with the device. Inevi= tably=20 some stuff wont work with Windows because "it is too old and you should buy= a=20 new device and stop being such a cheapskate". With Ubuntu some newer stuff= wont=20 work but might do fairly soon especially if you post a bug-report about it.= Ati=20 & NVidia have communities doing a lot of work right now and updates happen = quite=20 frequently. Even the companies themselves are making efforts to provide mo= re=20 support (for fear of losing customers now linux usage is reaching above 4%)= . =20 Other companies will follow their lead. Both Windows and Ubuntu will need to be updated and this is one area that U= buntu=20 really scores highly because it does everything, all the codecs, libraries,= =20 drivers, programs, packages, everything all in one go & you can walk away a= nd=20 leave it to get on with it with no further interaction. Windows will usual= ly=20 require several reboots and requires the update process to be repeated many= =20 times before it is 'completely' updated. Also Windows tends to make a fus= s=20 about stuff requiring user-input. Also Windows doesn't update any of the=20 drivers or programs, not even free ones such as Adobe flash-player or pdf=20 reader. So an ubuntu system is fully patched and ready whereas a Windows o= ne=20 seldom reaches that stage. Both systems often need tweaking to set which applications are preferred fo= r=20 certain tasks (right-click on a file-type and set what it opens with) altho= ugh=20 with Windows you seldom get a choice and just have to be careful about whic= h=20 programs you install last as each one grabs control. With Ubuntu you can=20 finesse it at almost any point. However, none of this is what this bug-report is about. All of this depend= s on=20 the skill (in the particular OS they are attempting to install) of the pers= on=20 doing the install and how easy they find it to access useful help if they r= un=20 into problems. Again, that is not what this bug-report is about. Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:52:28 -0000 Message-Id: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 14:07, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > This bug report is not about how difficult or easy OSes are to install. = =C2=A0It is > about how difficult it is to buy a machine with a decent OS pre-installed. Yes, thanks for reminding. But wouldn't it be more likely that more systems come with Ubuntu preinstalled, if it is more easy to install it? At least for the small PC shop around the corner it should be. Bigger shops for sure have everything automated. But how do they do when a new model appears? At least for the first of a new product line they must do it manually, isn't it? --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 14:16:42 -0000 Message-Id: <331618.19723.qm@web24101.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Martin, True. Again i agree with that and i think we are in agreement again. So t= he=20 various points people have made are valid except where we talk about noobs = installing. =20 Surely a shop that installs to perhaps tens of machines has time to play a= round=20 with even just 1 and has probably noticed all the quirkiness of installing = Windows onto a wide range of very different machines and might realise tha= t=20 lack of knowledge might be the main barrier to a smoother install of Ubuntu= (or=20 other distro). Perhaps it is those people that we should target rather tha= n=20 normal users or people that do the odd one or two. Continuing to approach = both=20 is probably still best. Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: skybon (skybon-deactivatedaccount-deactivatedaccount) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 14:33:22 -0000 Message-Id: Just specify your problem as precisely as possible, without missing any details. This way we will either generate a solution to your problem or, at least, a work-around. On 21 October 2010 09:19, Setve Gentilly <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Hi Kip, > > I would like you to understand the following, > > I hate Microsoft, I hate what they are doing, I hate what they stand for = and > what I hate the most is having to pay hard earned money for 0's and 1's. > I love the Open Source concept and it should be the *ONLY* way to go. > There is NOTHING MORE I would like than to be able to use Ubuntu on all my > machines. =C2=A0I am constantly looking for Microsoft alternatives. I hav= e been > in computers since 1992 and all my learned experience is on Dos, Windows > (Microsoft Certifications), some Netware and very little on Linux. > I am now retired and for some weird reason I am busier now than I was in = the > past. I do a lot of charitable work repairing and fixing defective comput= ers > for people who cannot afford to bring their PC's to the repair shop. > =C2=A0Unfortunately 99% of the people have Windows installed on their PC'= s. =C2=A0And > that I can fix. I would love nothing better than to replace some of these > people's unlicensed OS with Ubuntu. > But unfortunately I don't have the know how or experience to do that beca= use > I don't find Ubuntu user friendly (from a Windows perspective). > > So if one of you SMUCKS (wink, lol) is willing to put the effort in my > proposed project, then I am willing to put in 150% effort to do this. > And yes I will become responsible for spreading Ubuntu on (at least) a sm= all > to medium scale. > > What do you think, =C2=A0can we do this??????????????????? > > Best regards, > Gentilli. > > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 9:18 PM, Kip Warner wrote: > >> Beautifully said Randall. You touched the essence of why the consumer >> zombies just doesn't understand the world of free software. They >> generally just want to consume and produce nothing. >> >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber >> of the bug. >> >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress >> Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: New >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inv= alid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potentia= l, >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like >> Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >> >> > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the= ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. Th= is bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-ins= talled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > --=20 Artem Karimov (https://launchpad.net/~a.karimov) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Cariaga (mzc) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 17:26:49 -0000 Message-Id: Bug #1 description is outdated! Microsoft windows is a fading os due to its failure to innovate. We should focus more on why do i use this _____ os, what apps do use in the _______that i cannot find in Ubuntu os. I saying this because for the past few years,Apple has successfully gained market for Macs and ios devices, while Google has also published success on their Apps. Hence, where does Ubuntu os stands. IMO, Ubuntu is in right path with its current release, but we have to focus on innovation to break to critical mass. On Oct 21, 2010 7:43 AM, "Artem Karimov" wrote: --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 17:55:50 -0000 Message-Id: <200160.65407.qm@web24101.mail.ird.yahoo.com> or we could just keep going as we are to achieve critical mass http://blogs.eweek.com/applewatch/content/macbook/microsoft_ceo_scoffs_at_m= ac_share_gains.html http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2010/09/debunking-the-1-myth.html 4% or perhaps higher seems about right to me. i keep bumping into people t= hat=20 have heard of Ubuntu. Not all the time but it does happen --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Randall Ross (randall) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 18:13:02 -0000 Message-Id: <4CC082AE.1050508@executiv.es> Ubuntu awareness (and use) is very very low by our measurements so far. We're conducting random public surveys in Vancouver BC to get an actual percentage. Our goal is 1000 people asked "What is Ubuntu?" We're not publishing until we have a stastistically valid sample. Stay tuned for results ;) Want to try it in your city/town? Email me for the methodology. On 10-10-21 10:55 AM, Tom wrote: > 4% or perhaps higher seems about right to me. i keep bumping into people= that=20 > have heard of Ubuntu. Not all the time but it does happen > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 17:15:47 -0000 Message-Id: What i suggest for Ubuntu is the following: 1. A Ubuntu/Linux/Elf software store. It should be designed so that it can ship applications for many OS:es, not just Ubuntu. 2. A Ubuntu Pro commercial offering. Including boxed Ubuntu, a manual, and support. Also some commercial stuff like DVD player. Ubuntu currently has Fluendo Windows Media and MP3 Playback Pack, Fluendo C= omplete Playback Pack and PowerDVD Linux in its online shop. These should e= ither be provided trough a software store, or included in "Ubuntu Pro". I would also see more commercial Linux applications there. For example i kn= ow there is a Ubuntu version of Majesty. I know for sure that i would buy t= hat. 3. Both of above need a reseller plan. OEMs that preinstall a software store or Ubuntu Pro have to make money out of it. And Ubuntu pro should not be cheap. A software store and a commercial Linux with a distribution network is what we need. I am certain that this is exactly what we need. For servers we have RHEL but for clients the only thing available is Mandriva, but they effort to build a distribution network is to weak. They focus on an online store, and I believe thats their weakness. Operating Systems is OEM products and they are usually sold with computers, so we must target the OEM builders. While i have talked a lot about technology on this issue, technology is not a #1 bug issue. We have technology, what we need to fix bug #1 is marketing. There is no reason why Linux should have less usage share then OS X. Linux can run on much more hardware that OS X supports, and it have a great community. On another front, i think the idea of recycling old computers with Ubuntu and give them to those that cannot afford a brand new PC is excellent. I have done this a lot with lubuntu on really old computers. I also have a ThinLinc server that can be used to run applications that old computers are to weak to run. Its not fast enough for youtube, however they can play mpeg2. Perhaps an application like minitube can use a proxy server for transcoding to mpeg2 before a clip reach the old box? > Martin, >=20 > True. Again i agree with that and i think we are in agreement again. So= the=20 > various points people have made are valid except where we talk about noob= s=20 > installing. =20 >=20 >=20 > Surely a shop that installs to perhaps tens of machines has time to play= around=20 > with even just 1 and has probably noticed all the quirkiness of installin= g=20 > Windows onto a wide range of very different machines and might realise t= hat=20 > lack of knowledge might be the main barrier to a smoother install of Ubun= tu (or=20 > other distro). Perhaps it is those people that we should target rather t= han=20 > normal users or people that do the odd one or two. Continuing to approac= h both=20 > is probably still best. >=20 > Regards from > Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Cariaga (mzc) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 17:37:26 -0000 Message-Id: @faldegast. You are suggesting an approach that led to mandriva 's downfall. On Oct 22, 2010 10:26 AM, "Faldegast" <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > > What i suggest for Ubuntu is the following: > > 1. A Ubuntu/Linux/Elf software store. It should be designed so that it > can ship applications for many OS:es, not just Ubuntu. > > 2. A Ubuntu Pro commercial offering. Including boxed Ubuntu, a manual, > and support. Also some commercial stuff like DVD player. > > Ubuntu currently has Fluendo Windows Media and MP3 Playback Pack, Fluendo Complete Playback Pack and PowerDVD Linux in its online shop. These should either be provided trough a software store, or included in "Ubuntu Pro". > I would also see more commercial Linux applications there. For example i know there is a Ubuntu version of Majesty. I know for sure that i would buy that. > > 3. Both of above need a reseller plan. OEMs that preinstall a software > store or Ubuntu Pro have to make money out of it. And Ubuntu pro should > not be cheap. > > A software store and a commercial Linux with a distribution network is > what we need. I am certain that this is exactly what we need. For > servers we have RHEL but for clients the only thing available is > Mandriva, but they effort to build a distribution network is to weak. > They focus on an online store, and I believe thats their weakness. > Operating Systems is OEM products and they are usually sold with > computers, so we must target the OEM builders. > > While i have talked a lot about technology on this issue, technology is > not a #1 bug issue. We have technology, what we need to fix bug #1 is > marketing. > > There is no reason why Linux should have less usage share then OS X. > Linux can run on much more hardware that OS X supports, and it have a > great community. > > On another front, i think the idea of recycling old computers with > Ubuntu and give them to those that cannot afford a brand new PC is > excellent. I have done this a lot with lubuntu on really old computers. > I also have a ThinLinc server that can be used to run applications that > old computers are to weak to run. Its not fast enough for youtube, > however they can play mpeg2. Perhaps an application like minitube can > use a proxy server for transcoding to mpeg2 before a clip reach the old > box? > > >> Martin, >> >> True. Again i agree with that and i think we are in agreement again. So the >> various points people have made are valid except where we talk about noobs >> installing. >> >> >> Surely a shop that installs to perhaps tens of machines has time to play around >> with even just 1 and has probably noticed all the quirkiness of installing >> Windows onto a wide range of very different machines and might realise that >> lack of knowledge might be the main barrier to a smoother install of Ubuntu (or >> other distro). Perhaps it is those people that we should target rather than >> normal users or people that do the odd one or two. Continuing to approach both >> is probably still best. >> >> Regards from >> Tom :) > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Randall Ross (randall) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:20:09 -0000 Message-Id: <4CC1D5D9.50804@executiv.es> @mzc I agree. @faldegast: 1) Why would we market a kernel? 2) Running Ubuntu on scrap/old is not putting our best foot forward, and creates support issues. 3) For the server side, we have Ubuntu Server. 4) Ubuntu Software Centre is just that: a store for Ubuntu-compatible software. The extension of USC to non-Ubuntu platforms would be nightmarish in complexity. On 10-10-22 10:37 AM, mzc wrote: > @faldegast. You are suggesting an approach that led to mandriva 's > downfall. > On Oct 22, 2010 10:26 AM, "Faldegast" <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: >> What i suggest for Ubuntu is the following: >> >> 1. A Ubuntu/Linux/Elf software store. It should be designed so that it >> can ship applications for many OS:es, not just Ubuntu. >> >> 2. A Ubuntu Pro commercial offering. Including boxed Ubuntu, a manual, >> and support. Also some commercial stuff like DVD player. >> >> Ubuntu currently has Fluendo Windows Media and MP3 Playback Pack, Fluendo > Complete Playback Pack and PowerDVD Linux in its online shop. These should > either be provided trough a software store, or included in "Ubuntu Pro". >> I would also see more commercial Linux applications there. For example i > know there is a Ubuntu version of Majesty. I know for sure that i would b= uy > that. >> 3. Both of above need a reseller plan. OEMs that preinstall a software >> store or Ubuntu Pro have to make money out of it. And Ubuntu pro should >> not be cheap. >> >> A software store and a commercial Linux with a distribution network is >> what we need. I am certain that this is exactly what we need. For >> servers we have RHEL but for clients the only thing available is >> Mandriva, but they effort to build a distribution network is to weak. >> They focus on an online store, and I believe thats their weakness. >> Operating Systems is OEM products and they are usually sold with >> computers, so we must target the OEM builders. >> >> While i have talked a lot about technology on this issue, technology is >> not a #1 bug issue. We have technology, what we need to fix bug #1 is >> marketing. >> >> There is no reason why Linux should have less usage share then OS X. >> Linux can run on much more hardware that OS X supports, and it have a >> great community. >> >> On another front, i think the idea of recycling old computers with >> Ubuntu and give them to those that cannot afford a brand new PC is >> excellent. I have done this a lot with lubuntu on really old computers. >> I also have a ThinLinc server that can be used to run applications that >> old computers are to weak to run. Its not fast enough for youtube, >> however they can play mpeg2. Perhaps an application like minitube can >> use a proxy server for transcoding to mpeg2 before a clip reach the old >> box? >> >> >>> Martin, >>> >>> True. Again i agree with that and i think we are in agreement again. So > the >>> various points people have made are valid except where we talk about > noobs >>> installing. >>> >>> >>> Surely a shop that installs to perhaps tens of machines has time to play > around >>> with even just 1 and has probably noticed all the quirkiness of > installing >>> Windows onto a wide range of very different machines and might realise > that >>> lack of knowledge might be the main barrier to a smoother install of > Ubuntu (or >>> other distro). Perhaps it is those people that we should target rather > than >>> normal users or people that do the odd one or two. Continuing to approa= ch > both >>> is probably still best. >>> >>> Regards from >>> Tom :) >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber >> of the bug. >> >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress >> Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: New >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inv= alid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 05:19:40 -0000 Message-Id: Why don't you go go fuck yourself you fucking asshole......... On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:23 PM, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > On 10/20/2010 12:58 PM, Setve Gentilly wrote: > > Hi, > > I have 4 computers that I cannot even install Ubuntu on because Ubuntu > does > > not have the necessary drivers. > > There are another 2 that I can install Ubuntu on but because the video > > drivers are not very good they do not function at full capacity and my > > add-in cards don't have drivers for Ubuntu. > > My systems are high-end machines, not your stock stuff that Ubuntu works > on. > > So you see until Ubuntu makes drivers for all these wonderful add-in > cards > > and proper video drivers Ubuntu will not exist in my house. > > I don't believe you. I have high end machines too... They all work. > (About 25) Some took some effort, but only a few systems with old and > cheap stuff. This is being typed on a Gigabyte X58A-UD3R motherboard > with a Inetl Corei7 Quad core, and nVidia GTS250 graphics with 24 gig of > ram. (Work system, so that is why the low end graphics) Worked out of > the box with Lucid. I believe there is a lot more to your story. Like > perhaps your "high end" stuff is the cheapest Chinese components you can > source... And they don't have drivers? Those can take a bit > more effort. Or perhaps the well known Intel i855 graphics chipset bug? > (Fixed in Maverik, by the way) > > Only being willing to put an hour into learning a new system is not a > bug we can easily patch. > > But if you want help, go ahead and e-mail me. I bet I can find drivers > for much of your stuff. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 05:25:11 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 2:37 PM, Randall Ross (rrnwexec) < randall@executiv.es> wrote: > Did you bother to check which systems are certified first? > http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification/ > > Think of your experiences in the Windows world. You likely have used > hardware that is stickered "Windows Ready", "Works with Windows" etc. > > The Ubuntu world is no different, and Ubuntu does NOT work on > everything. Please reset expectations accordingly. > > More here if you are interested: > http://randall.executiv.es/uwoe3 > > > On 10-10-20 11:21 AM, Setve Gentilly wrote: > > Hi again, > > > > Let me explain it another way so that you may have a better idea of what > I > > am trying to explain here. > > > > I only buy products from some of the following manufactures; XFX, EVGA, > > Asus, Cooler Master, OCZ, Westen Digital, Silverstone, Corsair, Samsung, > > etc., etc., etc. > > When I get a new system (which I get regularly) after it is assembled it > > take me 1 to 1.5 hours to install Windows, the drivers and the necessary > > software to get it to function at 100% efficiency. I don't have the ti= me > to > > fart around and mess with Operating systems and drivers that don't even > run > > on a double click from the mouse, nor do I have the time to learn a new > > programing language (although I do know a few), no thank you. > > Let me give you an example, I installed Ubuntu 10.10RC on an AMD machine > > with an Asus board and an XFX HD 5770. When it came time to install the > ATI > > drivers from ATI, I ran the package and it said nothing to me so I > rebooted > > and guess what, it was not installed. So I then proceeded to install the > > third party drivers that Ubuntu suggested. Well, what a great performi= ng > > card........ It gave 50GFLOPS instead of the 1400GFLOPS Windows gives m= e. > > I don't have time to fart around for days or weeks to get the machine > > working 100%. > > > > When Ubuntu is as easy to install as Windows, then I will have another > look > > at it. > > Not till then....... > > > > Regards, > > Gentilli. > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:23 PM, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> > > wrote: > > > >> On 10/20/2010 12:58 PM, Setve Gentilly wrote: > >>> Hi, > >>> I have 4 computers that I cannot even install Ubuntu on because Ubuntu > >> does > >>> not have the necessary drivers. > >>> There are another 2 that I can install Ubuntu on but because the video > >>> drivers are not very good they do not function at full capacity and my > >>> add-in cards don't have drivers for Ubuntu. > >>> My systems are high-end machines, not your stock stuff that Ubuntu > works > >> on. > >>> So you see until Ubuntu makes drivers for all these wonderful add-in > >> cards > >>> and proper video drivers Ubuntu will not exist in my house. > >> I don't believe you. I have high end machines too... They all work. > >> (About 25) Some took some effort, but only a few systems with old and > >> cheap stuff. This is being typed on a Gigabyte X58A-UD3R motherboard > >> with a Inetl Corei7 Quad core, and nVidia GTS250 graphics with 24 gig = of > >> ram. (Work system, so that is why the low end graphics) Worked out of > >> the box with Lucid. I believe there is a lot more to your story. Like > >> perhaps your "high end" stuff is the cheapest Chinese components you c= an > >> source... And they don't have drivers? Those can take a bit > >> more effort. Or perhaps the well known Intel i855 graphics chipset bu= g? > >> (Fixed in Maverik, by the way) > >> > >> Only being willing to put an hour into learning a new system is not a > >> bug we can easily patch. > >> > >> But if you want help, go ahead and e-mail me. I bet I can find drivers > >> for much of your stuff. > >> > >> > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 05:26:05 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 3:14 PM, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > On 10/20/2010 02:21 PM, Setve Gentilly wrote: > > > When I get a new system (which I get regularly) after it is assembled it > > take me 1 to 1.5 hours to install Windows, the drivers and the necessary > > software to get it to function at 100% efficiency. I don't have the ti= me > to > > fart around and mess with Operating systems and drivers that don't even > run > > on a double click from the mouse, nor do I have the time to learn a new > > programing language (although I do know a few), no thank you. > > I have expertise in both Windows and Linux. Windows takes longer. > Mainly it is the massive amount of reboots between updates and drivers. > Also, the install is far to interactive, not set it and forget it. As > an aside, the only programming language I know is Perl, and I haven't > really used in in years. > > > Let me give you an example, I installed Ubuntu 10.10RC on an AMD machine > > with an Asus board and an XFX HD 5770. When it came time to install the > ATI > > drivers from ATI, I ran the package and it said nothing to me so I > rebooted > > and guess what, it was not installed. So I then proceeded to install the > > third party drivers that Ubuntu suggested. Well, what a great performi= ng > > card........ It gave 50GFLOPS instead of the 1400GFLOPS Windows gives m= e. > > I don't have time to fart around for days or weeks to get the machine > > working 100%. > > You installed a beta, and it was not perfect? Really? And those Vista > betas were so smooth... And you had ATI driver problems? That is > surely an Ubuntu issue. > http://www.google.com/search?q=3Dati+driver+problems Or maybe not. And > why did you go the the ATI website first? Oh, yes... You picked up > that habit from Windows. In Ubuntu, you go to the repos first. And > yes, the ATI Linux drivers are worse than the Windows drivers for many > ATI cards. One reason I like nVidia. (On both platforms) > > > When Ubuntu is as easy to install as Windows, then I will have another > look > > at it. > > You want Ubuntu to be as easy for a beginner to install with no > experience as Windows is for an expert with years of experience. That > is the bug... Unreasonable expectations. And the thought that > "Windows" is "Computer" and if you know "Windows" you know "computers." > Not so helpfull with Mac, Linux, HP-UX, Aix, Solaris, AS400, VMS, or a > number of accounting specific systems. Now if you give the same test to > your grandmother, I bet Linux is easier. > > And this is the reason I responded. People keep looking at the wrong > bug. The bug is that we did not tell you this BEFORE you started. Now > it is too late... > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 05:26:32 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Randall Ross (rrnwexec) < randall@executiv.es> wrote: > Not certified (yet). The complete list of Ubuntu-certified systems is her= e: > http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification/ > > On 10-10-20 12:05 PM, Setve Gentilly wrote: > > Hi, one more time. > > > > Another example; I have a AMD system with an Ultra SCSI card from > Tekram, > > No flavor of Ubuntu will install on those 10k Seagate drives because you > > don't have drivers for that card............... > > > > Regards, > > Gentilli. > > > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 05:27:24 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Randall Ross (rrnwexec) < randall@executiv.es> wrote: > Quite true. > > If you've ever watched a new user work with Ubuntu, you'll likely have > noticed that they have a much easier time than "experienced" computer > users. No bad habits to unlearn, and they tend to involve themselves > less with "tinkering" on unsupported (and uncertified) hardware. > > > > You want Ubuntu to be as easy for a beginner to install with no > > experience as Windows is for an expert with years of experience. That > > is the bug... Unreasonable expectations. And the thought that > > "Windows" is "Computer" and if you know "Windows" you know "computers." > > Not so helpfull with Mac, Linux, HP-UX, Aix, Solaris, AS400, VMS, or a > > number of accounting specific systems. Now if you give the same test to > > your grandmother, I bet Linux is easier. > > > > And this is the reason I responded. People keep looking at the wrong > > bug. The bug is that we did not tell you this BEFORE you started. Now > > it is too late... > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 05:27:50 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 3:31 PM, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > If you choose quite a variety of hardware then Windows wont work. Entire > ranges > of cpu chips are supported by linux but not by Windows. Entire types of > products perform really badly with Windows (such as netbooks) but work > really > fast with linux. All the space-station systems went down due to a virus, > at > least all the Windows systems but command&control was fine because it was > all on > linux. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 05:28:20 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Artem Karimov wrote: > In terminal: > > sudo apt-add-repository ppa:ubuntu-x-swat && sudo apt-get update && > sudo apt-get upgrade > > and you have 3D acceleration. > > On 20 October 2010 22:21, Setve Gentilly <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > > Hi again, > > > > Let me explain it another way so that you may have a better idea of what > I > > am trying to explain here. > > > >When it came time to install the ATI > > drivers from ATI, I ran the package and it said nothing to me so I > rebooted > > and guess what, it was not installed. So I then proceeded to install the > > third party drivers that Ubuntu suggested. Well, what a great performi= ng > > card........ It gave 50GFLOPS instead of the 1400GFLOPS Windows gives m= e. > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:23 PM, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> > > wrote: > > > >> On 10/20/2010 12:58 PM, Setve Gentilly wrote: > >> > Hi, > >> > I have 4 computers that I cannot even install Ubuntu on because Ubun= tu > >> does > >> > not have the necessary drivers. > >> > There are another 2 that I can install Ubuntu on but because the vid= eo > >> > drivers are not very good they do not function at full capacity and = my > >> > add-in cards don't have drivers for Ubuntu. > >> > My systems are high-end machines, not your stock stuff that Ubuntu > works > >> on. > >> > So you see until Ubuntu makes drivers for all these wonderful add-in > >> cards > >> > and proper video drivers Ubuntu will not exist in my house. > >> > >> I don't believe you. I have high end machines too... They all work. > >> (About 25) Some took some effort, but only a few systems with old and > >> cheap stuff. This is being typed on a Gigabyte X58A-UD3R motherboard > >> with a Inetl Corei7 Quad core, and nVidia GTS250 graphics with 24 gig = of > >> ram. (Work system, so that is why the low end graphics) Worked out of > >> the box with Lucid. I believe there is a lot more to your story. Like > >> perhaps your "high end" stuff is the cheapest Chinese components you c= an > >> source... And they don't have drivers? Those can take a bit > >> more effort. Or perhaps the well known Intel i855 graphics chipset bu= g? > >> (Fixed in Maverik, by the way) > >> > >> Only being willing to put an hour into learning a new system is not a > >> bug we can easily patch. > >> > >> But if you want help, go ahead and e-mail me. I bet I can find drivers > >> for much of your stuff. > >> > >> -- > >> Microsoft has a majority market share > >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > >> of the bug. > >> > >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > >> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > >> Status in Tv-Player: New > >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: I= nvalid > >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > >> Status in openSUSE: In Progress > >> Status in Tilix Linux: New > >> > >> Bug description: > >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplac= e. > >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > >> > >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full > potential, > >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > >> > >> Steps to repeat: > >> > >> 1. Visit a local PC store. > >> > >> What happens: > >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > >> pre-installed. > >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > >> > >> What should happen: > >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software li= ke > >> Ubuntu. > >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features a= nd > >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. > >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > >> > >> > >> > >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > >> > >> > > > > -- > > Microsoft has a majority market share > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > > of the bug. > > > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > > Status in Tv-Player: New > > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In= valid > > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > > > Bug description: > > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > > > Steps to repeat: > > > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > > > What happens: > > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > > > What should happen: > > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: Unknown > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 05:28:51 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Mzc, quite! My point exactly. The little bit that takes 1hr30 in Windows > only > takes 30 in Ubuntu with the difference that Ubuntu then has a stack of > Office > apps and stuff to use. Windows would be a little empty. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: Unknown > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 05:29:16 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Ben Shadwick wrote: > ** Bug watch added: GNOME Bug Tracker #496536 > https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D496536 > > ** Also affects: metacity via > https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D496536 > Importance: Unknown > Status: Unknown > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: Unknown > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 05:29:46 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 3:45 PM, Artem Karimov wrote: > Sorry for the offtop but could you please provide the link for the > news about space station virus?? Oo > > On 20 October 2010 23:31, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > > If you choose quite a variety of hardware then Windows wont work. Enti= re > ranges > > of cpu chips are supported by linux but not by Windows. Entire types of > > products perform really badly with Windows (such as netbooks) but work > really > > fast with linux. All the space-station systems went down due to a viru= s, > at > > least all the Windows systems but command&control was fine because it w= as > all on > > linux. > > > > -- > > Microsoft has a majority market share > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > > of the bug. > > > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > > Status in Tv-Player: New > > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In= valid > > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > > > Bug description: > > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > > > Steps to repeat: > > > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > > > What happens: > > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > > > What should happen: > > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > > > > -- > Artem Karimov (https://launchpad.net/~a.karimov > ) > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: Unknown > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 05:30:15 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Bug Watch Updater <1@bugs.launchpad.net>wr= ote: > ** Changed in: metacity > Status: Unknown =3D> In Progress > > ** Changed in: metacity > Importance: Unknown =3D> Low > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 05:30:44 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 4:41 PM, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wr= ote: > Hi guys. > I don't mean to be rude; I just want the message to be perfectly clear > because we've been through this shit for like million times already and > I'm simply getting sick and tired of hearing the same stupid whining > over and over again. Bad hardware support is always caused by stupid > hardware manufacturers and not the operating system in question, because > someone needs to write the damn drivers! If you leave that up to them, > they pretty much always end up spitting out some half broken piece of > binary crap, not to mention they probably won't even bother if the > particular operating system isn't used by what they believe to be enough > of their potential customers. I guess you can see why we have a problem > with that and every single operating system is gonna be plagued by the > exact same problem until it reaches critical mass. In fact, all they > need to do in order for their stuff to be fully and reliably supported > on free operating systems is to publicly release the programming > documentation (because writing properly working drivers without it > within reasonable time frame is impossible), but many of them are simply > too stupid to understand that. Until that changes, we're simply screwed, > because we're stuck with either crap that can (and will) stop working > any time or with nothing at all and there's absolutely not a damn thing > you can do about that by yet another pointless GNU/Linux (BSD, Solaris, > whatever) rant! So, unless you have some constructive criticism or other > valuable ideas, please go post your whining somewhere else! > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 05:31:32 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 5:05 PM, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > On 10/20/2010 04:41 PM, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB wrote: > > ... not to mention they probably won't even bother if the > > particular operating system isn't used by what they believe to be enough > > of their potential customers. I guess you can see why we have a problem > > with that and every single operating system is gonna be plagued by the > > exact same problem until it reaches critical mass. > > This happens with Windows as well. Why write a new driver just because > the new version of Windows doesn't work with it? With bad drivers, you > will get bit, whatever OS you run. I have a lovely PaperPort scanner > that I keep around as just such an object lesson. It only has Windows > 95 drivers unless you BUY a new one for more than the cost of a scanner. > This is not a Linux bug, but for some reason, Linux gets the blame, > and Windows and the hardware manufactures get a pass. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 05:32:05 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 5:21 PM, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wr= ote: > > With bad drivers, you will get bit, whatever OS you run. > > This is not a Linux bug, but for some reason, Linux gets the blame, and > Windows and the hardware manufactures get a pass. > > My point exactly. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 05:32:34 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 5:48 PM, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wr= ote: > > This is not a Linux bug, but for some reason, Linux gets the blame, > and Windows and the hardware manufactures get a pass. > > One more thing: > I'm incredibly sorry to say so, but I forgot to mention that "that > reason" is probably more and more people being stupid and getting more > and more stupid as the time passes - that's a sad fact that probably > just about every teacher out there can confirm (I recently joined the > club and pretty much the whole class - almost all of them senior teacher > professionals - seems to be thinking the same); no offence to anyone > here intended. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 05:33:12 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 6:10 PM, Randall Ross (rrnwexec) < randall@executiv.es> wrote: > The concept of a computer being a "bicycle for the mind" might be > helpful here, and might be worth revisiting. > > If we (society) are "training" our students purely to be "users" > (consumers) of software then we will see the exact effect that you > describe (in the domain of OS'es and computing, at least). (Bug #1 has > in effect created a whole generation of consumers who view computers as > a way to get to entertainment). > > We should instead be aiming to teach people to be creators and > contributors, so their information access tools remain robust and enable > any one to get to any and all information they need to educate > themselves. Ubuntu is taking that challenge head-on. However, we're > still not able to channel all the energy that is lost to distractions > such as Facebook, YouTube, Farmville, WoW, and similar things that also > tend to "dumb down" (or at least divert). That will require a lot more > code... > > On 10-10-20 02:48 PM, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB wrote: > > One more thing: > > I'm incredibly sorry to say so, but I forgot to mention that "that > > reason" is probably more and more people being stupid and getting more > > and more stupid as the time passes - that's a sad fact that probably > > just about every teacher out there can confirm (I recently joined the > > club and pretty much the whole class - almost all of them senior teacher > > professionals - seems to be thinking the same); no offence to anyone > > here intended. > > > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alex Lowe (lengau) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 05:36:59 -0000 Message-Id: Wow. That's what I call a well thought-out, logically-argued, polite and in-depth comment right there. Stay classy. On 23 October 2010 00:19, Setve Gentilly <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Why don't you go go fuck yourself you fucking asshole......... > > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:23 PM, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> > wrote: > >> On 10/20/2010 12:58 PM, Setve Gentilly wrote: >> > Hi, >> > I have 4 computers that I cannot even install Ubuntu on because Ubuntu >> does >> > not have the necessary drivers. >> > There are another 2 that I can install Ubuntu on but because the video >> > drivers are not very good they do not function at full capacity and my >> > add-in cards don't have drivers for Ubuntu. >> > My systems are high-end machines, not your stock stuff that Ubuntu wor= ks >> on. >> > So you see until Ubuntu makes drivers for all these wonderful add-in >> cards >> > and proper video drivers Ubuntu will not exist in my house. >> >> I don't believe you. =C2=A0I have high end machines too... =C2=A0They al= l work. >> (About 25) =C2=A0Some took some effort, but only a few systems with old = and >> cheap stuff. =C2=A0This is being typed on a Gigabyte X58A-UD3R motherboa= rd >> with a Inetl Corei7 Quad core, and nVidia GTS250 graphics with 24 gig of >> ram. =C2=A0(Work system, so that is why the low end graphics) =C2=A0Work= ed out of >> the box with Lucid. =C2=A0I believe there is a lot more to your story. = =C2=A0Like >> perhaps your "high end" stuff is the cheapest Chinese components you can >> source... =C2=A0And they don't have drivers? =C2=A0 =C2=A0Those c= an take a bit >> more effort. =C2=A0Or perhaps the well known Intel i855 graphics chipset= bug? >> =C2=A0(Fixed in Maverik, by the way) >> >> Only being willing to put an hour into learning a new system is not a >> bug we can easily patch. >> >> But if you want help, go ahead and e-mail me. =C2=A0I bet I can find dri= vers >> for much of your stuff. >> >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber >> of the bug. >> >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: New >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inv= alid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potentia= l, >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like >> Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >> >> > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the= ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. Th= is bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-ins= talled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Kip Warner (kip) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 05:45:41 -0000 Message-Id: <1287812741.2359.89.camel@kip-laptop> On Sat, 2010-10-23 at 05:19 +0000, Setve Gentilly wrote: > Why don't you go go fuck yourself you fucking asshole......... Setve, you're cooked. Get off the recreational dairy and refined sugar. Drink some kombucha and chill. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Kip Warner (kip) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 05:53:49 -0000 Message-Id: <1287813229.2359.90.camel@kip-laptop> On Sat, 2010-10-23 at 05:36 +0000, Alex M. Lowe wrote: > Wow. That's what I call a well thought-out, logically-argued, polite > and in-depth comment right there. Stay classy.=20 He was cooked up on deep fried, non-organic, proprietary software. He needs to go on a raw, organic, freshly squeeze, free software juice fast. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:00:44 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 6:32 PM, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wr= ote: > > If we (society) are "training" our students purely to be "users" > (consumers) of software then we will see the exact effect that you > describe (in the domain of OS'es and computing, at least). (Bug #1 has > in effect created a whole generation of consumers who view computers as > a way to get to entertainment). > > In other words "we get what we deserve/ask for". Maybe we should really > change the status to "won't fix" after all, for obvious reasons; but I > guess it's better to stay positive and go on with "in progress", waiting > for a radical global change of mind (hopefully somewhere in the near > future) or we're screwed anyway. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:01:08 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 11:03 AM, kredh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > ** Branch linked: lp:kassie > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:01:36 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:23 PM, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > On 10/20/2010 12:58 PM, Setve Gentilly wrote: > > Hi, > > I have 4 computers that I cannot even install Ubuntu on because Ubuntu > does > > not have the necessary drivers. > > There are another 2 that I can install Ubuntu on but because the video > > drivers are not very good they do not function at full capacity and my > > add-in cards don't have drivers for Ubuntu. > > My systems are high-end machines, not your stock stuff that Ubuntu works > on. > > So you see until Ubuntu makes drivers for all these wonderful add-in > cards > > and proper video drivers Ubuntu will not exist in my house. > > I don't believe you. I have high end machines too... They all work. > (About 25) Some took some effort, but only a few systems with old and > cheap stuff. This is being typed on a Gigabyte X58A-UD3R motherboard > with a Inetl Corei7 Quad core, and nVidia GTS250 graphics with 24 gig of > ram. (Work system, so that is why the low end graphics) Worked out of > the box with Lucid. I believe there is a lot more to your story. Like > perhaps your "high end" stuff is the cheapest Chinese components you can > source... And they don't have drivers? Those can take a bit > more effort. Or perhaps the well known Intel i855 graphics chipset bug? > (Fixed in Maverik, by the way) > > Only being willing to put an hour into learning a new system is not a > bug we can easily patch. > > But if you want help, go ahead and e-mail me. I bet I can find drivers > for much of your stuff. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:01:57 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 9:18 PM, Kip Warner wrote: > Beautifully said Randall. You touched the essence of why the consumer > zombies just doesn't understand the world of free software. They > generally just want to consume and produce nothing. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:02:55 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 3:22 AM, Kip Warner wrote: > On Thu, 2010-10-21 at 05:19 +0000, Setve Gentilly wrote: > > I would love nothing better than to replace some of these > > people's unlicensed OS with Ubuntu. > > But unfortunately I don't have the know how or experience to do that > because > > I don't find Ubuntu user friendly (from a Windows perspective). > > I had my mother and others on Ubuntu because, besides ethical concerns > with non-free software, I didn't find Windows or OS X to be user > friendly. So you see, we echo one another. There is an old saying, There > is no technical solution to an attitude problem. > > You must be more specific in what you did not find user friendly. > > -- > Kip Warner -- Software Engineer > OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred > http://www.thevertigo.com > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:03:26 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 4:10 AM, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Hi :) > > There is not really any "must do" in linux. Linux seems to be about > offering > choices, about offering freedom OF choice. As we know Windows provides > freedom > FROM choice and so it is the preference for most people. > > I found the best way to learn how to install and use linux was to learn h= ow > to > install it as a dual-boot and switch the default so that it boots into > Windows > automatically unless i was fast enough to choose linux at boot-up. > > This meant i could deal with problems at my own pace without being unable > to use > the machine in the normal ways i was used to. > > Now when i help people with ther machine's i put a dual-boot of a linux, > usually > Ubuntu but not always (there are smaller and lighter distros for Win98 > machines) > and then sort the usual stuff such as "Medibuntu" and install "Gimp" fo > photo > editing. I find "medibuntu" tends to sort all multimedia issues without = me > having to find drivers for things > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Medibuntu > > Finally i set-up firefox with bookmarks into Community and official > documentation, the 2 main Answers Forums (launchpad (that is this one) and > ubuntuforums.com) and also to the general linux answers forum at > http://www.linuxquestions.org > and usually to the rather excellent distrowatch because i know that soem > discussion about other distros will crop up in conversations later > http://distrowatch.com > > Then after i hand the machine back they hardly ever notice that linux is = on > their machine until we have a few chats over the next few weeks. > > When people have found that Windows still works normally and better/faster > for > the fixes i have done then it is a bit late for them to freak out about t= he > FUD > they have probably heard about it. > > Regards from > Tom :) > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:04:09 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 4:47 AM, Martin Wildam <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 20:37, Randall Ross (rrnwexec) > wrote: > > Did you bother to check which systems are certified first? > > http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification/ > > > > Think of your experiences in the Windows world. You likely have used > > hardware that is stickered "Windows Ready", "Works with Windows" etc. > > > > The Ubuntu world is no different, and Ubuntu does NOT work on > > everything. Please reset expectations accordingly. > > Although Ubuntu runs on a lot of hardware that is not listed there and > no certification has been done, people should simply prefer the > hardware that is certified or at least known to work. > > Simply becauce: Manufacturer's first aim is to work with Windows > because that is the majority of people and this simply is what gets > preinstalled in the vast majority of cases when shipping the thingy. > > Some manufacturers have looked beond the the rim of the plate and see > that the world around M$ is wide and large and take this into > consideration, like Dell or Lenovo for example. > > If people buying stuff do not explicitely prefer the more compatible > hardware manufacturers also will not change their habits. > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 20:59, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > > So 30mins to install Ubuntu against 1hr30 to install Windows. > > > > Did the Windows system then need upgrades or additional software? After > the > > first round of updates and reboot were all the drivers, codecs and new > programs > > all up-to-date and fully patched? > > Yesterday I tried to install an MS Office plugin from M$. Result: Half > an hour of applying necessary updates including upgrading to IE8 (and > I have no plain idea why IE8 needed in that case)... - and the machine > had applied all updates before... > > > > Installing a system you know well (Windows), with the standard > preparation you > > do before an install to that particular set of hardware does not really > compare > > against installing a system you have no experience with and have not > prepared > > for in advance. > > Yeah, people used Windows many, many years and then they expect to do > the transition in a day. Although I think that Ubuntu can be learned > quite quickly (just to think of the plenty of forums and documentation > available - or the very helpful community), my experience is that a > standard low experienced home user needs approx 2 weeks to get > familiar enough to be productive - but this is an awesome short time! > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 21:14, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > > I have expertise in both Windows and Linux. Windows takes longer. > > Mainly it is the massive amount of reboots between updates and drivers. > > Also, the install is far to interactive, not set it and forget it. > > If you look at the installation of Windows 2008 R2 Server for example, > installation of Windows is really not very interactive - it neither > asks for a host name! - It generates an automatic one that you can > change later. So even less interaction than for an Ubuntu > installation. > > That said, afterwards plenty of clicks needed to get only in the near > of being productive - not to tell that Windows OS after installation > is naked as a jaybird! Even the text editor that comes with it is ... > - well the only word I have for it is "impertinence". > > > > As > > an aside, the only programming language I know is Perl, and I haven't > > really used in in years. > > When I started with Linux all programming languages I knew were > Windows-only. So really, there is no need to know a programming > language for using Linux. That I felt strange using an OS I can't > program is natural after having always been capable of programming the > PCs I was working on before. - Well, I have fixed that bug in the > meantime. ;-) > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 21:14, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > > You want Ubuntu to be as easy for a beginner to install with no > > experience as Windows is for an expert with years of experience. That > > is the bug... Unreasonable expectations. And the thought that > > "Windows" is "Computer" and if you know "Windows" you know "computers." > > Not so helpfull with Mac, Linux, HP-UX, Aix, Solaris, AS400, VMS, or a > > number of accounting specific systems. Now if you give the same test to > > your grandmother, I bet Linux is easier. > > Full ACK! > > But: I agree that anyway it must get better, because there are plenty > of people who care a sh* about the OS - their focus is completely > different and they don't want to bother. > > But, that said, those people must be illuminated that: Even if they > want to just pull coffee from the coffee machine or if they "just" > want to drive a car, some knowledge of the thing you are using is > needed to use it (efficiently). In general for every thing (be it > technical or non-technical) there are some basics (knowledge, > experience, training) needed to use something - and more knowledge, > experience and training is needed to use something really efficient - > or - to help yourself in case of a problem. - This applies for > computers as well as for cars, giving presentations or even just your > daily habits. > > And then, when people want to improve their efficiency, then it comes > to the very special strength of Linux: There are plenty of different > desktop environments or just window managers, plenty of look and > feels, desktop elements like Docky (and the like - plenty of options > available just there), look & feel, different options for writing > office documents and and and... - According to your needs and focus! > Remind > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven_Habits_of_Highly_Effective_People > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 22:25, Setve Gentilly <1@bugs.launchpad.net> > wrote: > > Well it still comes down to not having drivers for stuff. > > Yes. > > > > Thank you guys for your time, but when Ubuntu is more compatible I will > have > > another look at it. > > No, you missed the point: The hardware manufacturers sold the thingy > to you. If you need to use Windows on that thingy because you can't > use Linux - they don't care! - They only will care when nobody is > buying their stuff because it is not Linux compatible! So YOU NEED TO > CHANGE FIRST! Don't buy that crappy hardware! > > I tell everybody asking me for consulting which hardware to buy that > they should look for a Linux compatible hardware, even if they don't > plan to use Linux (now). Situation could be different in a year, so > they should not lock themselves out from trying something new later. - > Guess what: The last time I said that resulted in 2 weeks later > switching to Ubuntu after the user destroyed the Windows 7 preinstall > within a week. > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 22:41, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wr= ote: > > I don't mean to be rude; I just want the message to be perfectly clear > > because we've been through this shit for like million times already and > > I'm simply getting sick and tired of hearing the same stupid whining > > over and over again. Bad hardware support is always caused by stupid > > hardware manufacturers and not the operating system in question, because > > someone needs to write the damn drivers! > > You nailed it! > > > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 00:10, Randall Ross (rrnwexec) > wrote: > > We should instead be aiming to teach people to be creators and > > contributors, so their information access tools remain robust and enable > > any one to get to any and all information they need to educate > > themselves. > > For the very interested user, yes - but many just have different > focus. E.g. a non-technical book author just wants to write his books > and do conversation with readers and publishers and typically does not > want bother with the OS. So most people are not going to read a bulk > of documentation. Of course, for the interested user who wants to get > more out of his/her PC, documentation should be at hand quickly and > easy to understand. > > -- > Martin Wildam > > http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:05:14 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 5:04 AM, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > I find that after a decent install most people don't even notice that they > are > using a different OS. Firefox is there and the menus easy to navigate. > Documents open with a double-click. > > As G stated it is the install process that is the most difficult part. We > try > to make that easy and many people have lists of what to do after a basic > install > in blogs and websites or in magazines. Forums are quite accessible and > documentation aimed at noobs is quite prolific but still all the difficult > part > of the migration process is right at the start of using linux. This is t= he > specific point of this bug#1 because a 'pre-installed' linux is very easy > to > use. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:05:56 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 6:49 AM, Martin Wildam <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:04, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > > I find that after a decent install most people don't even notice that > they are > > using a different OS. Firefox is there and the menus easy to navigate. > > Documents open with a double-click. > > I don't fully agree - e.g. Movie player is not playing a lot of > videos. Need to use VLC for those - so VLC must be installed and for > different files open with must be changed to use VLC instead of movie > player by default. I tend to instruct people to first double-click and > when it does not work use right mouse button and open with VLC. This > is easier than trying to find a sample for each possible format and > change default open. Similar applies for sound formats. > > And there are IMHO some other first-to-dos, be it tools to install > (like gsmartcontrol, Thunderbird, ...) and some options to change. - > But I don't want to complain about this because I have plenty more > first-to-dos under Win* and on Ubuntu I start the Synaptic, go once > through the list, ticking everything I want and then save the list to > an external file and never need to do it again manually. > > > > As G stated it is the install process that is the most difficult part. > > No, really, the installation is straight-forward. As with 10.10 it > either already starts preparing the harddrive while I do the last > inputs, is awesome - as well as WLAN already available and downloading > the updates already on the go. And with net access it already knows > the country I am in (regarding time settings). So there is nothing > more I wish to have. > > > > We try to make that easy and many people have lists of what to do after= a > basic install > > in blogs and websites or in magazines. > > One idea: You could grab the most used sets of pre-installations and > pre-sets and offer that as additional option at installation, e.g. > similar as Fedora does, asking the user for typical use "Home user, > Developer, Designer/Photographer, ..." - that probably would make it > easier for a lot of people and for Canonical it would be just running > a few additional apt-get install lines and maybe some default > configuration files. I personally already have some files containing > those, so for me no problem as it. > > -- > Martin Wildam > > http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:06:21 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 8:07 AM, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > This bug report is not about how difficult or easy OSes are to install. = It > is > about how difficult it is to buy a machine with a decent OS pre-installed. > > @ Martin > > I think we are agreeing but have semantic differences. Imo an install is > not > complete until the system is tweaked and made usable for the use the user > requires. A basic install of Windows is not ready to use imo. A basic > install > of Ubuntu is also not fully ready (imo) but has stuff ready to use that > Windows > doesn't and usually takes less to get it ready. > > To get Windows to the same level as Ubuntu you have to install many > programs > such as Office (i would use OpenOffice in Windows, not MicroSquish Office, > and > Firefox not IE for safety and security). 'Obviously' for > OpenOffice/LibreOffice > i would do > > Tools - Options - Load/Save > to set all the defaults to the unsafe ".doc" and ".xls" ones that people > prefer > in the Windows-world. > > Then both Windows & Ubuntu need multimedia players (Vlc for both, also > MPlayer > for Ubuntu and hopefully Zoom Player for Windows), Gimp (for both) and > whichever > other packages the user would appear to need from whatever they have been > talking about, mostly Ubuntu already covers those but Windows doesn't. > Ubuntu > makes a lot of that easy by following the Community Documentation Medibun= tu > page > but there are countless blogs, magazines and stuff either in the fake-wor= ld > or > online that cover the multimedia issues. > > Both Windows and Ubuntu need drivers for any oddly awkward hardware. For > Ubuntu > these are mostly online but it may take some hunting to find them. For > Windows > you might need to find that crusty old Cd that came with the device. > Inevitably > some stuff wont work with Windows because "it is too old and you should b= uy > a > new device and stop being such a cheapskate". With Ubuntu some newer stu= ff > wont > work but might do fairly soon especially if you post a bug-report about i= t. > Ati > & NVidia have communities doing a lot of work right now and updates happen > quite > frequently. Even the companies themselves are making efforts to provide > more > support (for fear of losing customers now linux usage is reaching above > 4%). > Other companies will follow their lead. > > Both Windows and Ubuntu will need to be updated and this is one area that > Ubuntu > really scores highly because it does everything, all the codecs, librarie= s, > drivers, programs, packages, everything all in one go & you can walk away > and > leave it to get on with it with no further interaction. Windows will > usually > require several reboots and requires the update process to be repeated ma= ny > times before it is 'completely' updated. Also Windows tends to make a > fuss > about stuff requiring user-input. Also Windows doesn't update any of the > drivers or programs, not even free ones such as Adobe flash-player or pdf > reader. So an ubuntu system is fully patched and ready whereas a Windows > one > seldom reaches that stage. > > Both systems often need tweaking to set which applications are preferred > for > certain tasks (right-click on a file-type and set what it opens with) > although > with Windows you seldom get a choice and just have to be careful about > which > programs you install last as each one grabs control. With Ubuntu you can > finesse it at almost any point. > > However, none of this is what this bug-report is about. All of this > depends on > the skill (in the particular OS they are attempting to install) of the > person > doing the install and how easy they find it to access useful help if they > run > into problems. Again, that is not what this bug-report is about. > Regards from > Tom :) > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:07:27 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Martin Wildam <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 14:07, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > > This bug report is not about how difficult or easy OSes are to install. > It is > > about how difficult it is to buy a machine with a decent OS > pre-installed. > > Yes, thanks for reminding. But wouldn't it be more likely that more > systems come with Ubuntu preinstalled, if it is more easy to install > it? At least for the small PC shop around the corner it should be. > > Bigger shops for sure have everything automated. But how do they do > when a new model appears? At least for the first of a new product line > they must do it manually, isn't it? > > -- > Martin Wildam > > http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:16:05 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:23 PM, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > On 10/20/2010 12:58 PM, Setve Gentilly wrote: > > Hi, > > I have 4 computers that I cannot even install Ubuntu on because Ubuntu > does > > not have the necessary drivers. > > There are another 2 that I can install Ubuntu on but because the video > > drivers are not very good they do not function at full capacity and my > > add-in cards don't have drivers for Ubuntu. > > My systems are high-end machines, not your stock stuff that Ubuntu works > on. > > So you see until Ubuntu makes drivers for all these wonderful add-in > cards > > and proper video drivers Ubuntu will not exist in my house. > > I don't believe you. I have high end machines too... They all work. > (About 25) Some took some effort, but only a few systems with old and > cheap stuff. This is being typed on a Gigabyte X58A-UD3R motherboard > with a Inetl Corei7 Quad core, and nVidia GTS250 graphics with 24 gig of > ram. (Work system, so that is why the low end graphics) Worked out of > the box with Lucid. I believe there is a lot more to your story. Like > perhaps your "high end" stuff is the cheapest Chinese components you can > source... And they don't have drivers? Those can take a bit > more effort. Or perhaps the well known Intel i855 graphics chipset bug? > (Fixed in Maverik, by the way) > > Only being willing to put an hour into learning a new system is not a > bug we can easily patch. > > But if you want help, go ahead and e-mail me. I bet I can find drivers > for much of your stuff. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:16:43 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 10:33 AM, Artem Karimov wrote: > Just specify your problem as precisely as possible, without missing > any details. This way we will either generate a solution to your > problem or, at least, a work-around. > > On 21 October 2010 09:19, Setve Gentilly <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > > Hi Kip, > > > > I would like you to understand the following, > > > > I hate Microsoft, I hate what they are doing, I hate what they stand for > and > > what I hate the most is having to pay hard earned money for 0's and 1's. > > I love the Open Source concept and it should be the *ONLY* way to go. > > There is NOTHING MORE I would like than to be able to use Ubuntu on all > my > > machines. I am constantly looking for Microsoft alternatives. I have > been > > in computers since 1992 and all my learned experience is on Dos, Windows > > (Microsoft Certifications), some Netware and very little on Linux. > > I am now retired and for some weird reason I am busier now than I was in > the > > past. I do a lot of charitable work repairing and fixing defective > computers > > for people who cannot afford to bring their PC's to the repair shop. > > Unfortunately 99% of the people have Windows installed on their PC's. > And > > that I can fix. I would love nothing better than to replace some of the= se > > people's unlicensed OS with Ubuntu. > > But unfortunately I don't have the know how or experience to do that > because > > I don't find Ubuntu user friendly (from a Windows perspective). > > > > So if one of you SMUCKS (wink, lol) is willing to put the effort in my > > proposed project, then I am willing to put in 150% effort to do this. > > And yes I will become responsible for spreading Ubuntu on (at least) a > small > > to medium scale. > > > > What do you think, can we do this??????????????????? > > > > Best regards, > > Gentilli. > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 9:18 PM, Kip Warner wrote: > > > >> Beautifully said Randall. You touched the essence of why the consumer > >> zombies just doesn't understand the world of free software. They > >> generally just want to consume and produce nothing. > >> > >> -- > >> Microsoft has a majority market share > >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > >> of the bug. > >> > >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > >> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > >> Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > >> Status in Tv-Player: New > >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: I= nvalid > >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > >> Status in openSUSE: In Progress > >> Status in Tilix Linux: New > >> > >> Bug description: > >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplac= e. > >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > >> > >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full > potential, > >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > >> > >> Steps to repeat: > >> > >> 1. Visit a local PC store. > >> > >> What happens: > >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > >> pre-installed. > >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > >> > >> What should happen: > >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software li= ke > >> Ubuntu. > >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features a= nd > >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. > >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > >> > >> > >> > >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > >> > >> > > > > -- > > Microsoft has a majority market share > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > > of the bug. > > > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > > Status in Tv-Player: New > > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In= valid > > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > > > Bug description: > > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > > > Steps to repeat: > > > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > > > What happens: > > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > > > What should happen: > > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > > > > -- > Artem Karimov (https://launchpad.net/~a.karimov > ) > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:17:59 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 2:37 PM, Randall Ross (rrnwexec) < randall@executiv.es> wrote: > Did you bother to check which systems are certified first? > http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification/ > > Think of your experiences in the Windows world. You likely have used > hardware that is stickered "Windows Ready", "Works with Windows" etc. > > The Ubuntu world is no different, and Ubuntu does NOT work on > everything. Please reset expectations accordingly. > > More here if you are interested: > http://randall.executiv.es/uwoe3 > > > On 10-10-20 11:21 AM, Setve Gentilly wrote: > > Hi again, > > > > Let me explain it another way so that you may have a better idea of what > I > > am trying to explain here. > > > > I only buy products from some of the following manufactures; XFX, EVGA, > > Asus, Cooler Master, OCZ, Westen Digital, Silverstone, Corsair, Samsung, > > etc., etc., etc. > > When I get a new system (which I get regularly) after it is assembled it > > take me 1 to 1.5 hours to install Windows, the drivers and the necessary > > software to get it to function at 100% efficiency. I don't have the ti= me > to > > fart around and mess with Operating systems and drivers that don't even > run > > on a double click from the mouse, nor do I have the time to learn a new > > programing language (although I do know a few), no thank you. > > Let me give you an example, I installed Ubuntu 10.10RC on an AMD machine > > with an Asus board and an XFX HD 5770. When it came time to install the > ATI > > drivers from ATI, I ran the package and it said nothing to me so I > rebooted > > and guess what, it was not installed. So I then proceeded to install the > > third party drivers that Ubuntu suggested. Well, what a great performi= ng > > card........ It gave 50GFLOPS instead of the 1400GFLOPS Windows gives m= e. > > I don't have time to fart around for days or weeks to get the machine > > working 100%. > > > > When Ubuntu is as easy to install as Windows, then I will have another > look > > at it. > > Not till then....... > > > > Regards, > > Gentilli. > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:23 PM, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> > > wrote: > > > >> On 10/20/2010 12:58 PM, Setve Gentilly wrote: > >>> Hi, > >>> I have 4 computers that I cannot even install Ubuntu on because Ubuntu > >> does > >>> not have the necessary drivers. > >>> There are another 2 that I can install Ubuntu on but because the video > >>> drivers are not very good they do not function at full capacity and my > >>> add-in cards don't have drivers for Ubuntu. > >>> My systems are high-end machines, not your stock stuff that Ubuntu > works > >> on. > >>> So you see until Ubuntu makes drivers for all these wonderful add-in > >> cards > >>> and proper video drivers Ubuntu will not exist in my house. > >> I don't believe you. I have high end machines too... They all work. > >> (About 25) Some took some effort, but only a few systems with old and > >> cheap stuff. This is being typed on a Gigabyte X58A-UD3R motherboard > >> with a Inetl Corei7 Quad core, and nVidia GTS250 graphics with 24 gig = of > >> ram. (Work system, so that is why the low end graphics) Worked out of > >> the box with Lucid. I believe there is a lot more to your story. Like > >> perhaps your "high end" stuff is the cheapest Chinese components you c= an > >> source... And they don't have drivers? Those can take a bit > >> more effort. Or perhaps the well known Intel i855 graphics chipset bu= g? > >> (Fixed in Maverik, by the way) > >> > >> Only being willing to put an hour into learning a new system is not a > >> bug we can easily patch. > >> > >> But if you want help, go ahead and e-mail me. I bet I can find drivers > >> for much of your stuff. > >> > >> > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Cariaga (mzc) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:18:50 -0000 Message-Id: This is exactly what happens when we're enslaved under a monopoly...put yourself back in the early 90's -mid 90's and you bought a mac...you'll say the same thing: "WTF I cant install MS Office to my mac...my mac diskettes does not work on a pc... sigh... GNU/Linux specifically Ubuntu OS has grown and continually growing in a rapid phase...We live a real world were there are optimists and pessimists....there will be people who want proof to believe and be spoonfed... there will also be people like those who bother to follow this thread, support each other and build local ubuntu communities worldwide, and will stick together and wait until the OS monopoly ends. On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 10:53 PM, Kip Warner wrote: > On Sat, 2010-10-23 at 05:36 +0000, Alex M. Lowe wrote: > > Wow. That's what I call a well thought-out, logically-argued, polite > > and in-depth comment right there. Stay classy. > > He was cooked up on deep fried, non-organic, proprietary software. He > needs to go on a raw, organic, freshly squeeze, free software juice > fast. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:19:05 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > So 30mins to install Ubuntu against 1hr30 to install Windows. > > Did the Windows system then need upgrades or additional software? After > the > first round of updates and reboot were all the drivers, codecs and new > programs > all up-to-date and fully patched? > > Installing a system you know well (Windows), with the standard preparation > you > do before an install to that particular set of hardware does not really > compare > against installing a system you have no experience with and have not > prepared > for in advance. > > Comparing is difficult when you are not comparing like with like. > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:22:29 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 3:14 PM, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > On 10/20/2010 02:21 PM, Setve Gentilly wrote: > > > When I get a new system (which I get regularly) after it is assembled it > > take me 1 to 1.5 hours to install Windows, the drivers and the necessary > > software to get it to function at 100% efficiency. I don't have the ti= me > to > > fart around and mess with Operating systems and drivers that don't even > run > > on a double click from the mouse, nor do I have the time to learn a new > > programing language (although I do know a few), no thank you. > > I have expertise in both Windows and Linux. Windows takes longer. > Mainly it is the massive amount of reboots between updates and drivers. > Also, the install is far to interactive, not set it and forget it. As > an aside, the only programming language I know is Perl, and I haven't > really used in in years. > > > Let me give you an example, I installed Ubuntu 10.10RC on an AMD machine > > with an Asus board and an XFX HD 5770. When it came time to install the > ATI > > drivers from ATI, I ran the package and it said nothing to me so I > rebooted > > and guess what, it was not installed. So I then proceeded to install the > > third party drivers that Ubuntu suggested. Well, what a great performi= ng > > card........ It gave 50GFLOPS instead of the 1400GFLOPS Windows gives m= e. > > I don't have time to fart around for days or weeks to get the machine > > working 100%. > > You installed a beta, and it was not perfect? Really? And those Vista > betas were so smooth... And you had ATI driver problems? That is > surely an Ubuntu issue. > http://www.google.com/search?q=3Dati+driver+problems Or maybe not. And > why did you go the the ATI website first? Oh, yes... You picked up > that habit from Windows. In Ubuntu, you go to the repos first. And > yes, the ATI Linux drivers are worse than the Windows drivers for many > ATI cards. One reason I like nVidia. (On both platforms) > > > When Ubuntu is as easy to install as Windows, then I will have another > look > > at it. > > You want Ubuntu to be as easy for a beginner to install with no > experience as Windows is for an expert with years of experience. That > is the bug... Unreasonable expectations. And the thought that > "Windows" is "Computer" and if you know "Windows" you know "computers." > Not so helpfull with Mac, Linux, HP-UX, Aix, Solaris, AS400, VMS, or a > number of accounting specific systems. Now if you give the same test to > your grandmother, I bet Linux is easier. > > And this is the reason I responded. People keep looking at the wrong > bug. The bug is that we did not tell you this BEFORE you started. Now > it is too late... > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:24:18 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 1:26 PM, mzc <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Bug #1 description is outdated! Microsoft windows is a fading os due to > its failure to innovate. We should focus more on why do i use this _____ > os, what apps do use in the _______that i cannot find in Ubuntu os. I > saying this because for the past few years,Apple has successfully gained > market for Macs and ios devices, while Google has also published success > on > their Apps. Hence, where does Ubuntu os stands. IMO, Ubuntu is in right > path with its current release, but we have to focus on innovation to break > to critical mass. > On Oct 21, 2010 7:43 AM, "Artem Karimov" wrote: > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:24:57 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > or we could just keep going as we are to achieve critical mass > > http://blogs.eweek.com/applewatch/content/macbook/microsoft_ceo_scoffs_at= _mac_share_gains.html > > > http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2010/09/debunking-the-1-myth.html > > 4% or perhaps higher seems about right to me. i keep bumping into people > that > have heard of Ubuntu. Not all the time but it does happen > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:25:45 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 2:13 PM, Randall Ross (rrnwexec) < randall@executiv.es> wrote: > Ubuntu awareness (and use) is very very low by our measurements so far. > We're conducting random public surveys in Vancouver BC to get an actual > percentage. Our goal is 1000 people asked "What is Ubuntu?" > We're not publishing until we have a stastistically valid sample. Stay > tuned for results ;) > Want to try it in your city/town? Email me for the methodology. > > > On 10-10-21 10:55 AM, Tom wrote: > > 4% or perhaps higher seems about right to me. i keep bumping into peop= le > that > > have heard of Ubuntu. Not all the time but it does happen > > > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:27:19 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 1:15 PM, Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > > What i suggest for Ubuntu is the following: > > 1. A Ubuntu/Linux/Elf software store. It should be designed so that it > can ship applications for many OS:es, not just Ubuntu. > > 2. A Ubuntu Pro commercial offering. Including boxed Ubuntu, a manual, > and support. Also some commercial stuff like DVD player. > > Ubuntu currently has Fluendo Windows Media and MP3 Playback Pack, Fluendo > Complete Playback Pack and PowerDVD Linux in its online shop. These should > either be provided trough a software store, or included in "Ubuntu Pro". > I would also see more commercial Linux applications there. For example i > know there is a Ubuntu version of Majesty. I know for sure that i would b= uy > that. > > 3. Both of above need a reseller plan. OEMs that preinstall a software > store or Ubuntu Pro have to make money out of it. And Ubuntu pro should > not be cheap. > > A software store and a commercial Linux with a distribution network is > what we need. I am certain that this is exactly what we need. For > servers we have RHEL but for clients the only thing available is > Mandriva, but they effort to build a distribution network is to weak. > They focus on an online store, and I believe thats their weakness. > Operating Systems is OEM products and they are usually sold with > computers, so we must target the OEM builders. > > While i have talked a lot about technology on this issue, technology is > not a #1 bug issue. We have technology, what we need to fix bug #1 is > marketing. > > There is no reason why Linux should have less usage share then OS X. > Linux can run on much more hardware that OS X supports, and it have a > great community. > > On another front, i think the idea of recycling old computers with > Ubuntu and give them to those that cannot afford a brand new PC is > excellent. I have done this a lot with lubuntu on really old computers. > I also have a ThinLinc server that can be used to run applications that > old computers are to weak to run. Its not fast enough for youtube, > however they can play mpeg2. Perhaps an application like minitube can > use a proxy server for transcoding to mpeg2 before a clip reach the old > box? > > > > Martin, > > > > True. Again i agree with that and i think we are in agreement again. = So > the > > various points people have made are valid except where we talk about > noobs > > installing. > > > > > > Surely a shop that installs to perhaps tens of machines has time to pl= ay > around > > with even just 1 and has probably noticed all the quirkiness of > installing > > Windows onto a wide range of very different machines and might realise > that > > lack of knowledge might be the main barrier to a smoother install of > Ubuntu (or > > other distro). Perhaps it is those people that we should target rather > than > > normal users or people that do the odd one or two. Continuing to > approach both > > is probably still best. > > > > Regards from > > Tom :) > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:27:57 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 1:37 PM, mzc <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > @faldegast. You are suggesting an approach that led to mandriva 's > downfall. > On Oct 22, 2010 10:26 AM, "Faldegast" <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > > > > What i suggest for Ubuntu is the following: > > > > 1. A Ubuntu/Linux/Elf software store. It should be designed so that it > > can ship applications for many OS:es, not just Ubuntu. > > > > 2. A Ubuntu Pro commercial offering. Including boxed Ubuntu, a manual, > > and support. Also some commercial stuff like DVD player. > > > > Ubuntu currently has Fluendo Windows Media and MP3 Playback Pack, Fluen= do > Complete Playback Pack and PowerDVD Linux in its online shop. These should > either be provided trough a software store, or included in "Ubuntu Pro". > > I would also see more commercial Linux applications there. For example i > know there is a Ubuntu version of Majesty. I know for sure that i would b= uy > that. > > > > 3. Both of above need a reseller plan. OEMs that preinstall a software > > store or Ubuntu Pro have to make money out of it. And Ubuntu pro should > > not be cheap. > > > > A software store and a commercial Linux with a distribution network is > > what we need. I am certain that this is exactly what we need. For > > servers we have RHEL but for clients the only thing available is > > Mandriva, but they effort to build a distribution network is to weak. > > They focus on an online store, and I believe thats their weakness. > > Operating Systems is OEM products and they are usually sold with > > computers, so we must target the OEM builders. > > > > While i have talked a lot about technology on this issue, technology is > > not a #1 bug issue. We have technology, what we need to fix bug #1 is > > marketing. > > > > There is no reason why Linux should have less usage share then OS X. > > Linux can run on much more hardware that OS X supports, and it have a > > great community. > > > > On another front, i think the idea of recycling old computers with > > Ubuntu and give them to those that cannot afford a brand new PC is > > excellent. I have done this a lot with lubuntu on really old computers. > > I also have a ThinLinc server that can be used to run applications that > > old computers are to weak to run. Its not fast enough for youtube, > > however they can play mpeg2. Perhaps an application like minitube can > > use a proxy server for transcoding to mpeg2 before a clip reach the old > > box? > > > > > >> Martin, > >> > >> True. Again i agree with that and i think we are in agreement again. So > the > >> various points people have made are valid except where we talk about > noobs > >> installing. > >> > >> > >> Surely a shop that installs to perhaps tens of machines has time to pl= ay > around > >> with even just 1 and has probably noticed all the quirkiness of > installing > >> Windows onto a wide range of very different machines and might realise > that > >> lack of knowledge might be the main barrier to a smoother install of > Ubuntu (or > >> other distro). Perhaps it is those people that we should target rather > than > >> normal users or people that do the odd one or two. Continuing to > approach > both > >> is probably still best. > >> > >> Regards from > >> Tom :) > > > > -- > > Microsoft has a majority market share > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > > of the bug. > > > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > > Status in Tv-Player: New > > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In= valid > > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > > > Bug description: > > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > > > Steps to repeat: > > > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > > > What happens: > > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > > > What should happen: > > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Setve Gentilly (gentilly-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:28:57 -0000 Message-Id: You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know that...... I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and they warned me about your type........ Maybe Windows is the best system............... I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my attention. Gentilli. On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 2:20 PM, Randall Ross (rrnwexec) < randall@executiv.es> wrote: > @mzc > I agree. > > @faldegast: > 1) Why would we market a kernel? > 2) Running Ubuntu on scrap/old is not putting our best foot forward, and > creates support issues. > 3) For the server side, we have Ubuntu Server. > 4) Ubuntu Software Centre is just that: a store for Ubuntu-compatible > software. The extension of USC to non-Ubuntu platforms would be > nightmarish in complexity. > > > On 10-10-22 10:37 AM, mzc wrote: > > @faldegast. You are suggesting an approach that led to mandriva 's > > downfall. > > On Oct 22, 2010 10:26 AM, "Faldegast" <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > >> What i suggest for Ubuntu is the following: > >> > >> 1. A Ubuntu/Linux/Elf software store. It should be designed so that it > >> can ship applications for many OS:es, not just Ubuntu. > >> > >> 2. A Ubuntu Pro commercial offering. Including boxed Ubuntu, a manual, > >> and support. Also some commercial stuff like DVD player. > >> > >> Ubuntu currently has Fluendo Windows Media and MP3 Playback Pack, > Fluendo > > Complete Playback Pack and PowerDVD Linux in its online shop. These > should > > either be provided trough a software store, or included in "Ubuntu Pro". > >> I would also see more commercial Linux applications there. For example= i > > know there is a Ubuntu version of Majesty. I know for sure that i would > buy > > that. > >> 3. Both of above need a reseller plan. OEMs that preinstall a software > >> store or Ubuntu Pro have to make money out of it. And Ubuntu pro should > >> not be cheap. > >> > >> A software store and a commercial Linux with a distribution network is > >> what we need. I am certain that this is exactly what we need. For > >> servers we have RHEL but for clients the only thing available is > >> Mandriva, but they effort to build a distribution network is to weak. > >> They focus on an online store, and I believe thats their weakness. > >> Operating Systems is OEM products and they are usually sold with > >> computers, so we must target the OEM builders. > >> > >> While i have talked a lot about technology on this issue, technology is > >> not a #1 bug issue. We have technology, what we need to fix bug #1 is > >> marketing. > >> > >> There is no reason why Linux should have less usage share then OS X. > >> Linux can run on much more hardware that OS X supports, and it have a > >> great community. > >> > >> On another front, i think the idea of recycling old computers with > >> Ubuntu and give them to those that cannot afford a brand new PC is > >> excellent. I have done this a lot with lubuntu on really old computers. > >> I also have a ThinLinc server that can be used to run applications that > >> old computers are to weak to run. Its not fast enough for youtube, > >> however they can play mpeg2. Perhaps an application like minitube can > >> use a proxy server for transcoding to mpeg2 before a clip reach the old > >> box? > >> > >> > >>> Martin, > >>> > >>> True. Again i agree with that and i think we are in agreement again. = So > > the > >>> various points people have made are valid except where we talk about > > noobs > >>> installing. > >>> > >>> > >>> Surely a shop that installs to perhaps tens of machines has time to > play > > around > >>> with even just 1 and has probably noticed all the quirkiness of > > installing > >>> Windows onto a wide range of very different machines and might realise > > that > >>> lack of knowledge might be the main barrier to a smoother install of > > Ubuntu (or > >>> other distro). Perhaps it is those people that we should target rather > > than > >>> normal users or people that do the odd one or two. Continuing to > approach > > both > >>> is probably still best. > >>> > >>> Regards from > >>> Tom :) > >> -- > >> Microsoft has a majority market share > >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > >> of the bug. > >> > >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > >> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > >> Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > >> Status in Tv-Player: New > >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: I= nvalid > >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > >> Status in openSUSE: In Progress > >> Status in Tilix Linux: New > >> > >> Bug description: > >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplac= e. > >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > >> > >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full > potential, > > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > >> Steps to repeat: > >> > >> 1. Visit a local PC store. > >> > >> What happens: > >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > > pre-installed. > >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > >> > >> What should happen: > >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software li= ke > > Ubuntu. > >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features a= nd > > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > >> > >> > >> > >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, > globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Delan Azabani (azabani) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 07:57:09 -0000 Message-Id: <4CC29555.4070502@azabani.com> Please don't spam your comment multiple times to be heard (you won't be). Also, it is quite rude to refer to us as 'your type'; if you don't think Ubuntu is 'worthy of your attention' then please stop and leave. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Eisenhardt (martin-eisenhardt) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 09:20:41 -0000 Message-Id: <78506B23-3DED-4CF2-9601-E6414CCD181C@mneisen.org> Wow, nice wording. Where did you learn that - in Kindergarten? On 23.10.2010, at 07:19, Setve Gentilly wrote: > Why don't you go go fuck yourself you fucking asshole......... > > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:23 PM, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> > wrote: > >> On 10/20/2010 12:58 PM, Setve Gentilly wrote: >>> Hi, >>> I have 4 computers that I cannot even install Ubuntu on because =20 >>> Ubuntu >> does >>> not have the necessary drivers. >>> There are another 2 that I can install Ubuntu on but because the =20 >>> video >>> drivers are not very good they do not function at full capacity =20 >>> and my >>> add-in cards don't have drivers for Ubuntu. >>> My systems are high-end machines, not your stock stuff that Ubuntu =20 >>> works >> on. >>> So you see until Ubuntu makes drivers for all these wonderful add-in >> cards >>> and proper video drivers Ubuntu will not exist in my house. >> >> I don't believe you. I have high end machines too... They all work. >> (About 25) Some took some effort, but only a few systems with old =20 >> and >> cheap stuff. This is being typed on a Gigabyte X58A-UD3R motherboard >> with a Inetl Corei7 Quad core, and nVidia GTS250 graphics with 24 =20 >> gig of >> ram. (Work system, so that is why the low end graphics) Worked =20 >> out of >> the box with Lucid. I believe there is a lot more to your story. =20 >> Like >> perhaps your "high end" stuff is the cheapest Chinese components =20 >> you can >> source... And they don't have drivers? Those can take a =20 >> bit >> more effort. Or perhaps the well known Intel i855 graphics chipset =20 >> bug? >> (Fixed in Maverik, by the way) >> >> Only being willing to put an hour into learning a new system is not a >> bug we can easily patch. >> >> But if you want help, go ahead and e-mail me. I bet I can find =20 >> drivers >> for much of your stuff. >> >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct =20 >> subscriber >> of the bug. >> >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: New >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inv= alid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC =20 >> marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population =20 >> and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full =20 >> potential, >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software =20 >> like >> Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing =20 >> features and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time =20 >> passes. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >> >> > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Eisenhardt (martin-eisenhardt) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 09:21:16 -0000 Message-Id: <6D05EA24-C2E2-4C77-B82B-2999BC03B3D8@mneisen.org> Get lost. We will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if you are worthy =20 of our attention. On 23.10.2010, at 07:25, Setve Gentilly wrote: > You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know > that...... > > I am a senior technician for windows systems with many =20 > certifications, and > they warned me about your type........ > > Maybe Windows is the best system............... > > I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my > attention. > > Gentilli. > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 2:37 PM, Randall Ross (rrnwexec) < > randall@executiv.es> wrote: > >> Did you bother to check which systems are certified first? >> http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification/ >> >> Think of your experiences in the Windows world. You likely have used >> hardware that is stickered "Windows Ready", "Works with Windows" etc. >> >> The Ubuntu world is no different, and Ubuntu does NOT work on >> everything. Please reset expectations accordingly. >> >> More here if you are interested: >> http://randall.executiv.es/uwoe3 >> >> >> On 10-10-20 11:21 AM, Setve Gentilly wrote: >>> Hi again, >>> >>> Let me explain it another way so that you may have a better idea =20 >>> of what >> I >>> am trying to explain here. >>> >>> I only buy products from some of the following manufactures; XFX, =20 >>> EVGA, >>> Asus, Cooler Master, OCZ, Westen Digital, Silverstone, Corsair, =20 >>> Samsung, >>> etc., etc., etc. >>> When I get a new system (which I get regularly) after it is =20 >>> assembled it >>> take me 1 to 1.5 hours to install Windows, the drivers and the =20 >>> necessary >>> software to get it to function at 100% efficiency. I don't have =20 >>> the time >> to >>> fart around and mess with Operating systems and drivers that don't =20 >>> even >> run >>> on a double click from the mouse, nor do I have the time to learn =20 >>> a new >>> programing language (although I do know a few), no thank you. >>> Let me give you an example, I installed Ubuntu 10.10RC on an AMD =20 >>> machine >>> with an Asus board and an XFX HD 5770. When it came time to =20 >>> install the >> ATI >>> drivers from ATI, I ran the package and it said nothing to me so I >> rebooted >>> and guess what, it was not installed. So I then proceeded to =20 >>> install the >>> third party drivers that Ubuntu suggested. Well, what a great =20 >>> performing >>> card........ It gave 50GFLOPS instead of the 1400GFLOPS Windows =20 >>> gives me. >>> I don't have time to fart around for days or weeks to get the =20 >>> machine >>> working 100%. >>> >>> When Ubuntu is as easy to install as Windows, then I will have =20 >>> another >> look >>> at it. >>> Not till then....... >>> >>> Regards, >>> Gentilli. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:23 PM, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 10/20/2010 12:58 PM, Setve Gentilly wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> I have 4 computers that I cannot even install Ubuntu on because =20 >>>>> Ubuntu >>>> does >>>>> not have the necessary drivers. >>>>> There are another 2 that I can install Ubuntu on but because the =20 >>>>> video >>>>> drivers are not very good they do not function at full capacity =20 >>>>> and my >>>>> add-in cards don't have drivers for Ubuntu. >>>>> My systems are high-end machines, not your stock stuff that Ubuntu >> works >>>> on. >>>>> So you see until Ubuntu makes drivers for all these wonderful =20 >>>>> add-in >>>> cards >>>>> and proper video drivers Ubuntu will not exist in my house. >>>> I don't believe you. I have high end machines too... They all =20 >>>> work. >>>> (About 25) Some took some effort, but only a few systems with =20 >>>> old and >>>> cheap stuff. This is being typed on a Gigabyte X58A-UD3R =20 >>>> motherboard >>>> with a Inetl Corei7 Quad core, and nVidia GTS250 graphics with 24 =20 >>>> gig of >>>> ram. (Work system, so that is why the low end graphics) Worked =20 >>>> out of >>>> the box with Lucid. I believe there is a lot more to your =20 >>>> story. Like >>>> perhaps your "high end" stuff is the cheapest Chinese components =20 >>>> you can >>>> source... And they don't have drivers? Those can take =20 >>>> a bit >>>> more effort. Or perhaps the well known Intel i855 graphics =20 >>>> chipset bug? >>>> (Fixed in Maverik, by the way) >>>> >>>> Only being willing to put an hour into learning a new system is =20 >>>> not a >>>> bug we can easily patch. >>>> >>>> But if you want help, go ahead and e-mail me. I bet I can find =20 >>>> drivers >>>> for much of your stuff. >>>> >>>> >> >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct =20 >> subscriber >> of the bug. >> >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: New >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inv= alid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC =20 >> marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population =20 >> and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full =20 >> potential, >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software =20 >> like >> Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing =20 >> features and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time =20 >> passes. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >> >> > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Eisenhardt (martin-eisenhardt) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 09:21:21 -0000 Message-Id: <9D840CA8-8617-4173-BF28-3FCE9E55040E@mneisen.org> Get lost. We will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if you are worthy =20 of our attention. On 23.10.2010, at 07:26, Setve Gentilly wrote: > You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know > that...... > > I am a senior technician for windows systems with many =20 > certifications, and > they warned me about your type........ > > Maybe Windows is the best system............... > > I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my > attention. > > Gentilli. > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 3:14 PM, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> =20 > wrote: > >> On 10/20/2010 02:21 PM, Setve Gentilly wrote: >> >>> When I get a new system (which I get regularly) after it is =20 >>> assembled it >>> take me 1 to 1.5 hours to install Windows, the drivers and the =20 >>> necessary >>> software to get it to function at 100% efficiency. I don't have =20 >>> the time >> to >>> fart around and mess with Operating systems and drivers that don't =20 >>> even >> run >>> on a double click from the mouse, nor do I have the time to learn =20 >>> a new >>> programing language (although I do know a few), no thank you. >> >> I have expertise in both Windows and Linux. Windows takes longer. >> Mainly it is the massive amount of reboots between updates and =20 >> drivers. >> Also, the install is far to interactive, not set it and forget it. =20 >> As >> an aside, the only programming language I know is Perl, and I haven't >> really used in in years. >> >>> Let me give you an example, I installed Ubuntu 10.10RC on an AMD =20 >>> machine >>> with an Asus board and an XFX HD 5770. When it came time to =20 >>> install the >> ATI >>> drivers from ATI, I ran the package and it said nothing to me so I >> rebooted >>> and guess what, it was not installed. So I then proceeded to =20 >>> install the >>> third party drivers that Ubuntu suggested. Well, what a great =20 >>> performing >>> card........ It gave 50GFLOPS instead of the 1400GFLOPS Windows =20 >>> gives me. >>> I don't have time to fart around for days or weeks to get the =20 >>> machine >>> working 100%. >> >> You installed a beta, and it was not perfect? Really? And those =20 >> Vista >> betas were so smooth... And you had ATI driver problems? That is >> surely an Ubuntu issue. >> http://www.google.com/search?q=3Dati+driver+problems Or maybe not. =20 >> And >> why did you go the the ATI website first? Oh, yes... You picked up >> that habit from Windows. In Ubuntu, you go to the repos first. And >> yes, the ATI Linux drivers are worse than the Windows drivers for =20 >> many >> ATI cards. One reason I like nVidia. (On both platforms) >> >>> When Ubuntu is as easy to install as Windows, then I will have =20 >>> another >> look >>> at it. >> >> You want Ubuntu to be as easy for a beginner to install with no >> experience as Windows is for an expert with years of experience. =20 >> That >> is the bug... Unreasonable expectations. And the thought that >> "Windows" is "Computer" and if you know "Windows" you know =20 >> "computers." >> Not so helpfull with Mac, Linux, HP-UX, Aix, Solaris, AS400, VMS, =20 >> or a >> number of accounting specific systems. Now if you give the same =20 >> test to >> your grandmother, I bet Linux is easier. >> >> And this is the reason I responded. People keep looking at the wrong >> bug. The bug is that we did not tell you this BEFORE you started. =20 >> Now >> it is too late... >> >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct =20 >> subscriber >> of the bug. >> >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: New >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inv= alid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC =20 >> marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population =20 >> and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full =20 >> potential, >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software =20 >> like >> Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing =20 >> features and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time =20 >> passes. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >> >> > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Eisenhardt (martin-eisenhardt) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 09:21:25 -0000 Message-Id: Get lost. We will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if you are worthy =20 of our attention. On 23.10.2010, at 07:26, Setve Gentilly wrote: > You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know > that...... > > I am a senior technician for windows systems with many =20 > certifications, and > they warned me about your type........ > > Maybe Windows is the best system............... > > I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my > attention. > > Gentilli. > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Randall Ross (rrnwexec) < > randall@executiv.es> wrote: > >> Not certified (yet). The complete list of Ubuntu-certified systems =20 >> is here: >> http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification/ >> >> On 10-10-20 12:05 PM, Setve Gentilly wrote: >>> Hi, one more time. >>> >>> Another example; I have a AMD system with an Ultra SCSI card from >> Tekram, >>> No flavor of Ubuntu will install on those 10k Seagate drives =20 >>> because you >>> don't have drivers for that card............... >>> >>> Regards, >>> Gentilli. >>> >> >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct =20 >> subscriber >> of the bug. >> >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: New >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inv= alid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC =20 >> marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population =20 >> and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full =20 >> potential, >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software =20 >> like >> Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing =20 >> features and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time =20 >> passes. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >> >> > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Eisenhardt (martin-eisenhardt) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 09:21:29 -0000 Message-Id: <089B7CBB-D0C0-4077-9150-FA5C509360B2@mneisen.org> Get lost. We will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if you are worthy =20 of our attention. On 23.10.2010, at 07:27, Setve Gentilly wrote: > You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know > that...... > > I am a senior technician for windows systems with many =20 > certifications, and > they warned me about your type........ > > Maybe Windows is the best system............... > > I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my > attention. > > Gentilli. > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Randall Ross (rrnwexec) < > randall@executiv.es> wrote: > >> Quite true. >> >> If you've ever watched a new user work with Ubuntu, you'll likely =20 >> have >> noticed that they have a much easier time than "experienced" computer >> users. No bad habits to unlearn, and they tend to involve themselves >> less with "tinkering" on unsupported (and uncertified) hardware. >> >> >>> You want Ubuntu to be as easy for a beginner to install with no >>> experience as Windows is for an expert with years of experience. =20 >>> That >>> is the bug... Unreasonable expectations. And the thought that >>> "Windows" is "Computer" and if you know "Windows" you know =20 >>> "computers." >>> Not so helpfull with Mac, Linux, HP-UX, Aix, Solaris, AS400, VMS, =20 >>> or a >>> number of accounting specific systems. Now if you give the same =20 >>> test to >>> your grandmother, I bet Linux is easier. >>> >>> And this is the reason I responded. People keep looking at the =20 >>> wrong >>> bug. The bug is that we did not tell you this BEFORE you =20 >>> started. Now >>> it is too late... >> >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct =20 >> subscriber >> of the bug. >> >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: New >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inv= alid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC =20 >> marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population =20 >> and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full =20 >> potential, >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software =20 >> like >> Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing =20 >> features and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time =20 >> passes. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >> >> > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Eisenhardt (martin-eisenhardt) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 09:21:33 -0000 Message-Id: <377BBA99-37DE-4ACB-B12E-A1AA3495174A@mneisen.org> Get lost. We will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if you are worthy =20 of our attention. On 23.10.2010, at 07:27, Setve Gentilly wrote: > You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know > that...... > > I am a senior technician for windows systems with many =20 > certifications, and > they warned me about your type........ > > Maybe Windows is the best system............... > > I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my > attention. > > Gentilli. > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 3:31 PM, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > >> If you choose quite a variety of hardware then Windows wont work. =20 >> Entire >> ranges >> of cpu chips are supported by linux but not by Windows. Entire =20 >> types of >> products perform really badly with Windows (such as netbooks) but =20 >> work >> really >> fast with linux. All the space-station systems went down due to a =20 >> virus, >> at >> least all the Windows systems but command&control was fine because =20 >> it was >> all on >> linux. >> >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct =20 >> subscriber >> of the bug. >> >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: New >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inv= alid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC =20 >> marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population =20 >> and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full =20 >> potential, >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software =20 >> like >> Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing =20 >> features and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time =20 >> passes. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >> >> > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Eisenhardt (martin-eisenhardt) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 09:21:36 -0000 Message-Id: <483755D6-F281-4367-BB99-50782AB5B694@mneisen.org> Get lost. We will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if you are worthy =20 of our attention. On 23.10.2010, at 07:28, Setve Gentilly wrote: > You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know > that...... > > I am a senior technician for windows systems with many =20 > certifications, and > they warned me about your type........ > > Maybe Windows is the best system............... > > I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my > attention. > > Gentilli. > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Artem Karimov =20 > wrote: > >> In terminal: >> >> sudo apt-add-repository ppa:ubuntu-x-swat && sudo apt-get update && >> sudo apt-get upgrade >> >> and you have 3D acceleration. >> >> On 20 October 2010 22:21, Setve Gentilly <1@bugs.launchpad.net> =20 >> wrote: >>> Hi again, >>> >>> Let me explain it another way so that you may have a better idea =20 >>> of what >> I >>> am trying to explain here. >>> >>> When it came time to install the ATI >>> drivers from ATI, I ran the package and it said nothing to me so I >> rebooted >>> and guess what, it was not installed. So I then proceeded to =20 >>> install the >>> third party drivers that Ubuntu suggested. Well, what a great =20 >>> performing >>> card........ It gave 50GFLOPS instead of the 1400GFLOPS Windows =20 >>> gives me. >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:23 PM, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 10/20/2010 12:58 PM, Setve Gentilly wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> I have 4 computers that I cannot even install Ubuntu on because =20 >>>>> Ubuntu >>>> does >>>>> not have the necessary drivers. >>>>> There are another 2 that I can install Ubuntu on but because the =20 >>>>> video >>>>> drivers are not very good they do not function at full capacity =20 >>>>> and my >>>>> add-in cards don't have drivers for Ubuntu. >>>>> My systems are high-end machines, not your stock stuff that Ubuntu >> works >>>> on. >>>>> So you see until Ubuntu makes drivers for all these wonderful =20 >>>>> add-in >>>> cards >>>>> and proper video drivers Ubuntu will not exist in my house. >>>> >>>> I don't believe you. I have high end machines too... They all =20 >>>> work. >>>> (About 25) Some took some effort, but only a few systems with =20 >>>> old and >>>> cheap stuff. This is being typed on a Gigabyte X58A-UD3R =20 >>>> motherboard >>>> with a Inetl Corei7 Quad core, and nVidia GTS250 graphics with 24 =20 >>>> gig of >>>> ram. (Work system, so that is why the low end graphics) Worked =20 >>>> out of >>>> the box with Lucid. I believe there is a lot more to your =20 >>>> story. Like >>>> perhaps your "high end" stuff is the cheapest Chinese components =20 >>>> you can >>>> source... And they don't have drivers? Those can take =20 >>>> a bit >>>> more effort. Or perhaps the well known Intel i855 graphics =20 >>>> chipset bug? >>>> (Fixed in Maverik, by the way) >>>> >>>> Only being willing to put an hour into learning a new system is =20 >>>> not a >>>> bug we can easily patch. >>>> >>>> But if you want help, go ahead and e-mail me. I bet I can find =20 >>>> drivers >>>> for much of your stuff. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Microsoft has a majority market share >>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >>>> You received this bug notification because you are a direct =20 >>>> subscriber >>>> of the bug. >>>> >>>> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >>>> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >>>> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >>>> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix >>>> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >>>> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >>>> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress >>>> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress >>>> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >>>> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >>>> Status in Tv-Player: New >>>> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >>>> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >>>> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >>>> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: I= nvalid >>>> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >>>> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress >>>> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: =20 >>>> Confirmed >>>> Status in openSUSE: In Progress >>>> Status in Tilix Linux: New >>>> >>>> Bug description: >>>> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC =20 >>>> marketplace. >>>> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >>>> >>>> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >>>> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's =20 >>>> population and >>>> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full >> potential, >>>> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >>>> >>>> Steps to repeat: >>>> >>>> 1. Visit a local PC store. >>>> >>>> What happens: >>>> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >>>> pre-installed. >>>> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-=20 >>>> installed. >>>> >>>> What should happen: >>>> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free =20 >>>> software like >>>> Ubuntu. >>>> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing =20 >>>> features and >>>> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >>>> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time =20 >>>> passes. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Microsoft has a majority market share >>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >>> You received this bug notification because you are a direct =20 >>> subscriber >>> of the bug. >>> >>> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >>> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >>> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >>> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix >>> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >>> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >>> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress >>> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress >>> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >>> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >>> Status in Tv-Player: New >>> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >>> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >>> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >>> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In= valid >>> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >>> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress >>> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: =20 >>> Confirmed >>> Status in openSUSE: In Progress >>> Status in Tilix Linux: New >>> >>> Bug description: >>> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC =20 >>> marketplace. >>> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >>> >>> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population =20 >> and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full =20 >> potential, >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >>> >>> Steps to repeat: >>> >>> 1. Visit a local PC store. >>> >>> What happens: >>> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >>> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >>> >>> What should happen: >>> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free =20 >>> software like >> Ubuntu. >>> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing =20 >>> features and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >>> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time =20 >>> passes. >>> >>> >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >>> >> >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct =20 >> subscriber >> of the bug. >> >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress >> Status in The Metacity Window Manager: Unknown >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: New >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inv= alid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC =20 >> marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population =20 >> and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full =20 >> potential, >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software =20 >> like >> Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing =20 >> features and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time =20 >> passes. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >> >> > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Eisenhardt (martin-eisenhardt) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 09:21:41 -0000 Message-Id: Get lost. We will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if you are worthy =20 of our attention. On 23.10.2010, at 07:28, Setve Gentilly wrote: > You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know > that...... > > I am a senior technician for windows systems with many =20 > certifications, and > they warned me about your type........ > > Maybe Windows is the best system............... > > I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my > attention. > > Gentilli. > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > >> Mzc, quite! My point exactly. The little bit that takes 1hr30 in =20 >> Windows >> only >> takes 30 in Ubuntu with the difference that Ubuntu then has a stack =20 >> of >> Office >> apps and stuff to use. Windows would be a little empty. >> >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct =20 >> subscriber >> of the bug. >> >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress >> Status in The Metacity Window Manager: Unknown >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: New >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inv= alid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC =20 >> marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population =20 >> and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full =20 >> potential, >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software =20 >> like >> Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing =20 >> features and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time =20 >> passes. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >> >> > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Eisenhardt (martin-eisenhardt) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 09:21:45 -0000 Message-Id: Get lost. We will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if you are worthy =20 of our attention. On 23.10.2010, at 07:29, Setve Gentilly wrote: > You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know > that...... > > I am a senior technician for windows systems with many =20 > certifications, and > they warned me about your type........ > > Maybe Windows is the best system............... > > I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my > attention. > > Gentilli. > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Ben Shadwick =20 > wrote: > >> ** Bug watch added: GNOME Bug Tracker #496536 >> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D496536 >> >> ** Also affects: metacity via >> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D496536 >> Importance: Unknown >> Status: Unknown >> >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct =20 >> subscriber >> of the bug. >> >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress >> Status in The Metacity Window Manager: Unknown >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: New >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inv= alid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC =20 >> marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population =20 >> and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full =20 >> potential, >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software =20 >> like >> Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing =20 >> features and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time =20 >> passes. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >> >> > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Eisenhardt (martin-eisenhardt) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 09:21:52 -0000 Message-Id: <4904B37A-1347-46FF-81DA-0D84CD904417@mneisen.org> Get lost. We will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if you are worthy =20 of our attention. On 23.10.2010, at 07:29, Setve Gentilly wrote: > You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know > that...... > > I am a senior technician for windows systems with many =20 > certifications, and > they warned me about your type........ > > Maybe Windows is the best system............... > > I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my > attention. > > Gentilli. > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 3:45 PM, Artem Karimov =20 > wrote: > >> Sorry for the offtop but could you please provide the link for the >> news about space station virus?? Oo >> >> On 20 October 2010 23:31, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: >>> If you choose quite a variety of hardware then Windows wont work. =20 >>> Entire >> ranges >>> of cpu chips are supported by linux but not by Windows. Entire =20 >>> types of >>> products perform really badly with Windows (such as netbooks) but =20 >>> work >> really >>> fast with linux. All the space-station systems went down due to a =20 >>> virus, >> at >>> least all the Windows systems but command&control was fine because =20 >>> it was >> all on >>> linux. >>> >>> -- >>> Microsoft has a majority market share >>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >>> You received this bug notification because you are a direct =20 >>> subscriber >>> of the bug. >>> >>> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >>> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >>> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >>> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix >>> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >>> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >>> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress >>> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress >>> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >>> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >>> Status in Tv-Player: New >>> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >>> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >>> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >>> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: In= valid >>> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >>> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress >>> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: =20 >>> Confirmed >>> Status in openSUSE: In Progress >>> Status in Tilix Linux: New >>> >>> Bug description: >>> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC =20 >>> marketplace. >>> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >>> >>> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population =20 >> and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full =20 >> potential, >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >>> >>> Steps to repeat: >>> >>> 1. Visit a local PC store. >>> >>> What happens: >>> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >>> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >>> >>> What should happen: >>> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free =20 >>> software like >> Ubuntu. >>> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing =20 >>> features and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >>> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time =20 >>> passes. >>> >>> >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >>> >> >> >> -- >> Artem Karimov (https://launchpad.net/~a.karimov> > >> ) >> >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct =20 >> subscriber >> of the bug. >> >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress >> Status in The Metacity Window Manager: Unknown >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: New >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inv= alid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC =20 >> marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population =20 >> and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full =20 >> potential, >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software =20 >> like >> Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing =20 >> features and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time =20 >> passes. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >> >> > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Eisenhardt (martin-eisenhardt) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 09:21:56 -0000 Message-Id: <89AAA58D-B071-4748-8C9C-7A76346A3CE7@mneisen.org> Get lost. We will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if you are worthy =20 of our attention. On 23.10.2010, at 07:30, Setve Gentilly wrote: > You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know > that...... > > I am a senior technician for windows systems with many =20 > certifications, and > they warned me about your type........ > > Maybe Windows is the best system............... > > I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my > attention. > > Gentilli. > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Bug Watch Updater <1@bugs.launchpad.net = > >wrote: > >> ** Changed in: metacity >> Status: Unknown =3D> In Progress >> >> ** Changed in: metacity >> Importance: Unknown =3D> Low >> >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct =20 >> subscriber >> of the bug. >> >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress >> Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: New >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inv= alid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC =20 >> marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population =20 >> and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full =20 >> potential, >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software =20 >> like >> Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing =20 >> features and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time =20 >> passes. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >> >> > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Eisenhardt (martin-eisenhardt) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 09:21:59 -0000 Message-Id: <9049F6C0-A00E-4C1A-ADD4-E4603B6728AB@mneisen.org> Get lost. We will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if you are worthy =20 of our attention. On 23.10.2010, at 07:30, Setve Gentilly wrote: > You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know > that...... > > I am a senior technician for windows systems with many =20 > certifications, and > they warned me about your type........ > > Maybe Windows is the best system............... > > I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my > attention. > > Gentilli. > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 4:41 PM, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB <1@bugs.launchpad.net> = wrote: > >> Hi guys. >> I don't mean to be rude; I just want the message to be perfectly =20 >> clear >> because we've been through this shit for like million times already =20 >> and >> I'm simply getting sick and tired of hearing the same stupid whining >> over and over again. Bad hardware support is always caused by stupid >> hardware manufacturers and not the operating system in question, =20 >> because >> someone needs to write the damn drivers! If you leave that up to =20 >> them, >> they pretty much always end up spitting out some half broken piece of >> binary crap, not to mention they probably won't even bother if the >> particular operating system isn't used by what they believe to be =20 >> enough >> of their potential customers. I guess you can see why we have a =20 >> problem >> with that and every single operating system is gonna be plagued by =20 >> the >> exact same problem until it reaches critical mass. In fact, all they >> need to do in order for their stuff to be fully and reliably =20 >> supported >> on free operating systems is to publicly release the programming >> documentation (because writing properly working drivers without it >> within reasonable time frame is impossible), but many of them are =20 >> simply >> too stupid to understand that. Until that changes, we're simply =20 >> screwed, >> because we're stuck with either crap that can (and will) stop working >> any time or with nothing at all and there's absolutely not a damn =20 >> thing >> you can do about that by yet another pointless GNU/Linux (BSD, =20 >> Solaris, >> whatever) rant! So, unless you have some constructive criticism or =20 >> other >> valuable ideas, please go post your whining somewhere else! >> >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct =20 >> subscriber >> of the bug. >> >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress >> Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: New >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inv= alid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC =20 >> marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population =20 >> and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full =20 >> potential, >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software =20 >> like >> Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing =20 >> features and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time =20 >> passes. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >> >> > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Eisenhardt (martin-eisenhardt) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 09:22:03 -0000 Message-Id: <1A87FC78-7C54-4E7B-AE23-29E7830F354F@mneisen.org> Get lost. We will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if you are worthy =20 of our attention. On 23.10.2010, at 07:31, Setve Gentilly wrote: > You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know > that...... > > I am a senior technician for windows systems with many =20 > certifications, and > they warned me about your type........ > > Maybe Windows is the best system............... > > I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my > attention. > > Gentilli. > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 5:05 PM, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> =20 > wrote: > >> On 10/20/2010 04:41 PM, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB wrote: >>> ... not to mention they probably won't even bother if the >>> particular operating system isn't used by what they believe to be =20 >>> enough >>> of their potential customers. I guess you can see why we have a =20 >>> problem >>> with that and every single operating system is gonna be plagued by =20 >>> the >>> exact same problem until it reaches critical mass. >> >> This happens with Windows as well. Why write a new driver just =20 >> because >> the new version of Windows doesn't work with it? With bad drivers, =20 >> you >> will get bit, whatever OS you run. I have a lovely PaperPort scanner >> that I keep around as just such an object lesson. It only has =20 >> Windows >> 95 drivers unless you BUY a new one for more than the cost of a =20 >> scanner. >> This is not a Linux bug, but for some reason, Linux gets the blame, >> and Windows and the hardware manufactures get a pass. >> >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct =20 >> subscriber >> of the bug. >> >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress >> Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: New >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inv= alid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC =20 >> marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population =20 >> and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full =20 >> potential, >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software =20 >> like >> Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing =20 >> features and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time =20 >> passes. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >> >> > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Eisenhardt (martin-eisenhardt) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 09:22:08 -0000 Message-Id: <038E48A5-6D31-4663-A96D-D57BC16656D5@mneisen.org> Get lost. We will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if you are worthy =20 of our attention. On 23.10.2010, at 07:32, Setve Gentilly wrote: > You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know > that...... > > I am a senior technician for windows systems with many =20 > certifications, and > they warned me about your type........ > > Maybe Windows is the best system............... > > I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my > attention. > > Gentilli. > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 5:21 PM, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB <1@bugs.launchpad.net> = wrote: > >>> With bad drivers, you will get bit, whatever OS you run. >>> This is not a Linux bug, but for some reason, Linux gets the =20 >>> blame, and >> Windows and the hardware manufactures get a pass. >> >> My point exactly. >> >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct =20 >> subscriber >> of the bug. >> >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress >> Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: New >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inv= alid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC =20 >> marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population =20 >> and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full =20 >> potential, >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software =20 >> like >> Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing =20 >> features and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time =20 >> passes. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >> >> > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Eisenhardt (martin-eisenhardt) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 09:22:12 -0000 Message-Id: Get lost. We will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if you are worthy =20 of our attention. On 23.10.2010, at 07:32, Setve Gentilly wrote: > You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know > that...... > > I am a senior technician for windows systems with many =20 > certifications, and > they warned me about your type........ > > Maybe Windows is the best system............... > > I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my > attention. > > Gentilli. > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 5:48 PM, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB <1@bugs.launchpad.net> = wrote: > >>> This is not a Linux bug, but for some reason, Linux gets the blame, >> and Windows and the hardware manufactures get a pass. >> >> One more thing: >> I'm incredibly sorry to say so, but I forgot to mention that "that >> reason" is probably more and more people being stupid and getting =20 >> more >> and more stupid as the time passes - that's a sad fact that probably >> just about every teacher out there can confirm (I recently joined the >> club and pretty much the whole class - almost all of them senior =20 >> teacher >> professionals - seems to be thinking the same); no offence to anyone >> here intended. >> >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct =20 >> subscriber >> of the bug. >> >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress >> Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: New >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inv= alid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC =20 >> marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population =20 >> and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full =20 >> potential, >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software =20 >> like >> Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing =20 >> features and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time =20 >> passes. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >> >> > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Eisenhardt (martin-eisenhardt) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 09:22:16 -0000 Message-Id: <7F0DFB0E-C398-43E3-A9C1-D3639A858AFC@mneisen.org> Get lost. We will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if you are worthy =20 of our attention. On 23.10.2010, at 07:33, Setve Gentilly wrote: > You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know > that...... > > I am a senior technician for windows systems with many =20 > certifications, and > they warned me about your type........ > > Maybe Windows is the best system............... > > I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my > attention. > > Gentilli. > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 6:10 PM, Randall Ross (rrnwexec) < > randall@executiv.es> wrote: > >> The concept of a computer being a "bicycle for the mind" might be >> helpful here, and might be worth revisiting. >> >> If we (society) are "training" our students purely to be "users" >> (consumers) of software then we will see the exact effect that you >> describe (in the domain of OS'es and computing, at least). (Bug #1 =20 >> has >> in effect created a whole generation of consumers who view =20 >> computers as >> a way to get to entertainment). >> >> We should instead be aiming to teach people to be creators and >> contributors, so their information access tools remain robust and =20 >> enable >> any one to get to any and all information they need to educate >> themselves. Ubuntu is taking that challenge head-on. However, we're >> still not able to channel all the energy that is lost to distractions >> such as Facebook, YouTube, Farmville, WoW, and similar things that =20 >> also >> tend to "dumb down" (or at least divert). That will require a lot =20 >> more >> code... >> >> On 10-10-20 02:48 PM, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB wrote: >>> One more thing: >>> I'm incredibly sorry to say so, but I forgot to mention that "that >>> reason" is probably more and more people being stupid and getting =20 >>> more >>> and more stupid as the time passes - that's a sad fact that probably >>> just about every teacher out there can confirm (I recently joined =20 >>> the >>> club and pretty much the whole class - almost all of them senior =20 >>> teacher >>> professionals - seems to be thinking the same); no offence to anyone >>> here intended. >>> >> >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct =20 >> subscriber >> of the bug. >> >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress >> Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: New >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inv= alid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC =20 >> marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population =20 >> and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full =20 >> potential, >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software =20 >> like >> Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing =20 >> features and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time =20 >> passes. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >> >> > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Eisenhardt (martin-eisenhardt) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 09:22:28 -0000 Message-Id: Get lost. We will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if you are worthy =20 of our attention. On 23.10.2010, at 08:01, Setve Gentilly wrote: > You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know > that...... > > I am a senior technician for windows systems with many =20 > certifications, and > they warned me about your type........ > > Maybe Windows is the best system............... > > I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my > attention. > > Gentilli. > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 11:03 AM, kredh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > >> ** Branch linked: lp:kassie >> >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct =20 >> subscriber >> of the bug. >> >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: New >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inv= alid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC =20 >> marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population =20 >> and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full =20 >> potential, >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software =20 >> like >> Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing =20 >> features and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time =20 >> passes. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >> >> > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Eisenhardt (martin-eisenhardt) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 09:22:30 -0000 Message-Id: <6CC1CF9E-0D69-4421-AD2E-78C091B13103@mneisen.org> Get lost. We will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if you are worthy =20 of our attention. On 23.10.2010, at 08:01, Setve Gentilly wrote: > You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know > that...... > > I am a senior technician for windows systems with many =20 > certifications, and > they warned me about your type........ > > Maybe Windows is the best system............... > > I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my > attention. > > Gentilli. > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:23 PM, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> =20 > wrote: > >> On 10/20/2010 12:58 PM, Setve Gentilly wrote: >>> Hi, >>> I have 4 computers that I cannot even install Ubuntu on because =20 >>> Ubuntu >> does >>> not have the necessary drivers. >>> There are another 2 that I can install Ubuntu on but because the =20 >>> video >>> drivers are not very good they do not function at full capacity =20 >>> and my >>> add-in cards don't have drivers for Ubuntu. >>> My systems are high-end machines, not your stock stuff that Ubuntu =20 >>> works >> on. >>> So you see until Ubuntu makes drivers for all these wonderful add-in >> cards >>> and proper video drivers Ubuntu will not exist in my house. >> >> I don't believe you. I have high end machines too... They all work. >> (About 25) Some took some effort, but only a few systems with old =20 >> and >> cheap stuff. This is being typed on a Gigabyte X58A-UD3R motherboard >> with a Inetl Corei7 Quad core, and nVidia GTS250 graphics with 24 =20 >> gig of >> ram. (Work system, so that is why the low end graphics) Worked =20 >> out of >> the box with Lucid. I believe there is a lot more to your story. =20 >> Like >> perhaps your "high end" stuff is the cheapest Chinese components =20 >> you can >> source... And they don't have drivers? Those can take a =20 >> bit >> more effort. Or perhaps the well known Intel i855 graphics chipset =20 >> bug? >> (Fixed in Maverik, by the way) >> >> Only being willing to put an hour into learning a new system is not a >> bug we can easily patch. >> >> But if you want help, go ahead and e-mail me. I bet I can find =20 >> drivers >> for much of your stuff. >> >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct =20 >> subscriber >> of the bug. >> >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: New >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inv= alid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC =20 >> marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population =20 >> and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full =20 >> potential, >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software =20 >> like >> Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing =20 >> features and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time =20 >> passes. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >> >> > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Eisenhardt (martin-eisenhardt) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 09:22:32 -0000 Message-Id: <245D0924-9C52-434F-9FF4-97FD7F9362CE@mneisen.org> Get lost. We will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if you are worthy =20 of our attention. On 23.10.2010, at 08:01, Setve Gentilly wrote: > You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know > that...... > > I am a senior technician for windows systems with many =20 > certifications, and > they warned me about your type........ > > Maybe Windows is the best system............... > > I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my > attention. > > Gentilli. > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 9:18 PM, Kip Warner =20 > wrote: > >> Beautifully said Randall. You touched the essence of why the consumer >> zombies just doesn't understand the world of free software. They >> generally just want to consume and produce nothing. >> >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct =20 >> subscriber >> of the bug. >> >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress >> Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: New >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inv= alid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC =20 >> marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population =20 >> and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full =20 >> potential, >> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software =20 >> like >> Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing =20 >> features and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time =20 >> passes. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >> >> > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 09:33:20 -0000 Message-Id: <4CC2ABE0.5050500@canonical.com> @Martin That's not a very Ubuntu way of responding. When trolled, just rise above it, don't take the bait and start a noise-war. If you're going to reply, please do it with the code of conduct in mind. Mark --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: skybon (skybon-deactivatedaccount-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 09:51:39 -0000 Message-Id: We are just all tired of guys that respond to help proposals saying "go f*ck yourself". It is _really_ annoying. On 23 October 2010 13:33, Mark Shuttleworth <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > > @Martin > > That's not a very Ubuntu way of responding. When trolled, just rise > above it, don't take the bait and start a noise-war. If you're going to > reply, please do it with the code of conduct in mind. > > Mark > > -- > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the= ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. Th= is bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-ins= talled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > --=20 Artem Karimov (https://launchpad.net/~a.karimov) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Eisenhardt (martin-eisenhardt) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 09:54:48 -0000 Message-Id: Thank you, Mark, for the reminder. I just could not seem to take this =20 kind of stuff from Setve. I promise to behave in a more Ubuntu way =20 from now on. Thanks again! On 23.10.2010, at 11:33, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > > @Martin > > That's not a very Ubuntu way of responding. When trolled, just rise > above it, don't take the bait and start a noise-war. If you're going =20 > to > reply, please do it with the code of conduct in mind. > > Mark > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Eisenhardt (martin-eisenhardt) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 10:07:04 -0000 Message-Id: <2B44820C-3B48-476D-A8C2-6C436214D628@mneisen.org> Hi Artem, thanks for your understanding. Nevertheless, our BDFL is completely =20 right: Even in the face of a flood of flame mails like the ones I =20 replied to, the only right answer is to remain calm and argue with the =20 facts the flame-boy presented - if any. On 23.10.2010, at 11:51, Artem Karimov wrote: > We are just all tired of guys that respond to help proposals saying > "go f*ck yourself". It is _really_ annoying. > > On 23 October 2010 13:33, Mark Shuttleworth <1@bugs.launchpad.net> =20 > wrote: >> >> @Martin >> >> That's not a very Ubuntu way of responding. When trolled, just rise >> above it, don't take the bait and start a noise-war. If you're =20 >> going to >> reply, please do it with the code of conduct in mind. >> >> Mark >> >> -- >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct =20 >> subscriber >> of the bug. >> >> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid >> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress >> Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: New >> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inv= alid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC =20 >> marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, =20 >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population =20 >> and limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full =20 >> potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software =20 >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software =20 >> like Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing =20 >> features and benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time =20 >> passes. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe >> > > > --=20 > Artem Karimov (https://launchpad.net/~a.karimov) > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: zakzor (zakzor) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 10:12:22 -0000 Message-Id: <4CC2B506.8090904@gmail.com> "...they warned me about your type..."??? One of the certifications is the "brainwash" one. @Gentilli: Try to judge people by yourself and not by labels and what=20 other say. zakzor > You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know > that...... > > I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and > they warned me about your type........ > > Maybe Windows is the best system............... > > I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my > attention. > > Gentilli. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 10:27:57 -0000 Message-Id: No, not really. They did have a "pro" version yes, but they don't have a di= stribution network. What i am suggesting is the business model that Microsoft has. Copy that and we will take market share from them. > @faldegast. You are suggesting an approach that led to mandriva 's > downfall. > On Oct 22, 2010 10:26 AM, "Faldegast" <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > > > > What i suggest for Ubuntu is the following: > > > > 1. A Ubuntu/Linux/Elf software store. It should be designed so that it > > can ship applications for many OS:es, not just Ubuntu. > > > > 2. A Ubuntu Pro commercial offering. Including boxed Ubuntu, a manual, > > and support. Also some commercial stuff like DVD player. > > > > Ubuntu currently has Fluendo Windows Media and MP3 Playback Pack, Fluen= do > Complete Playback Pack and PowerDVD Linux in its online shop. These should > either be provided trough a software store, or included in "Ubuntu Pro". > > I would also see more commercial Linux applications there. For example i > know there is a Ubuntu version of Majesty. I know for sure that i would b= uy > that. > > > > 3. Both of above need a reseller plan. OEMs that preinstall a software > > store or Ubuntu Pro have to make money out of it. And Ubuntu pro should > > not be cheap. > > > > A software store and a commercial Linux with a distribution network is > > what we need. I am certain that this is exactly what we need. For > > servers we have RHEL but for clients the only thing available is > > Mandriva, but they effort to build a distribution network is to weak. > > They focus on an online store, and I believe thats their weakness. > > Operating Systems is OEM products and they are usually sold with > > computers, so we must target the OEM builders. > > > > While i have talked a lot about technology on this issue, technology is > > not a #1 bug issue. We have technology, what we need to fix bug #1 is > > marketing. > > > > There is no reason why Linux should have less usage share then OS X. > > Linux can run on much more hardware that OS X supports, and it have a > > great community. > > > > On another front, i think the idea of recycling old computers with > > Ubuntu and give them to those that cannot afford a brand new PC is > > excellent. I have done this a lot with lubuntu on really old computers. > > I also have a ThinLinc server that can be used to run applications that > > old computers are to weak to run. Its not fast enough for youtube, > > however they can play mpeg2. Perhaps an application like minitube can > > use a proxy server for transcoding to mpeg2 before a clip reach the old > > box? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:00:35 -0000 Message-Id: 1) "Linux (commonly pronounced /=CB=88l=C9=AAn=C9=99ks/ LIN-=C9=99ks in Ame= rican English,[4][5] also pronounced /=CB=88l=C9=AAn=CA=8Aks/ LIN-ooks[6] i= n Europe and Canada) refers to the family of Unix-like computer operating s= ystems using the Linux kernel." Thats the common use of the word "Linux" and its quite obvious that i did n= ot talk about the kernel. 2) Thats actually what most people are doing in order to spread Ubuntu, and I agree that it is a good method to spread Ubuntu in a place where Windows cant go. This is not something i suggested, but stated my approval of. There was someone else that posted that they was doing this for people that cannot afford new computers. 3) Yes. And we do not really have a problem on the server side. 4) The creation of a store for both Ubuntu and non-Ubuntu would not be nightmarish using PackageKit. A store? Can you buy applications in USC? How do I add a commercial application to that store? My favourite would actually be something like Java Store. However it would only be good for the few Java applications out there. Take a look at Xandros and their success. CNR seam to work quite well, just to bad that their OS is... Also supporting other OS:es is not a hard requirement. > @faldegast: > 1) Why would we market a kernel? > 2) Running Ubuntu on scrap/old is not putting our best foot forward, and > creates support issues. > 3) For the server side, we have Ubuntu Server. > 4) Ubuntu Software Centre is just that: a store for Ubuntu-compatible > software. The extension of USC to non-Ubuntu platforms would be > nightmarish in complexity. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 13:55:47 -0000 Message-Id: <4CC2E963.2010303@hal-pc.org> On 10/23/2010 01:19 AM, Setve Gentilly wrote: > Why don't you go go **** yourself you ****ing *******......... > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:23 PM, houstonbofh<1@bugs.launchpad.net> >> I don't believe you. Really, that kid of response is a crass way of saying, "Ooops... You=20 Got me." And I wonder why I thought you were less than truthful... On 10/23/2010 01:25 AM, Setve Gentilly wrote: > I am a senior technician for windows systems with many=20 certifications, and > they warned me about your type........ Having been in the business 25 years, and having had to hire windows=20 support people for many of them, I know the value of those=20 certifications. Nothing... But more than that, it does not jibe with=20 this statement... https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/128236 "Asked by Setve Gentilly on on 2010-10-07 I am a computer user, not a technician. I have no intentions in learning=20 a new computer language or how to write programs." That and your crass spamming of the report 50 times... Time to change=20 your screen name again. Amusingly enough, your comment did not bother me. I would still help=20 you work out your Ubuntu problems. But I seriously doubt you want to=20 solve those. Anyway... You stay classy, San Diego. Lee --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 14:06:29 -0000 Message-Id: <4CC2EBE5.2040304@hal-pc.org> On 10/23/2010 07:00 AM, Faldegast wrote: > Take a look at Xandros and their success. CNR seam to work quite well, > just to bad that their OS is... In 2006, there was an announcement of CNR for Ubuntu. It was actually=20 in Hardy. It never went anywhere. See=20 http://ubuntu-tutorials.com/2007/02/10/a-dnr-for-linspires-cnr/ for an=20 example of the response. I do agree that the software "store" could use=20 more prominence, but mixing it up with the FOSS stuff is a bad idea to me. Also, cnr.com appears to be down right now... Amusing timing. :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Paul Flint (flint) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 20:52:51 -0000 Message-Id: Dear Mark, Words to live by. Regards, Flint On Sat, 23 Oct 2010, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 09:33:20 -0000 > From: Mark Shuttleworth <1@bugs.launchpad.net> > To: flint@flint.com > Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > > @Martin > > That's not a very Ubuntu way of responding. When trolled, just rise > above it, don't take the bait and start a noise-war. If you're going to > reply, please do it with the code of conduct in mind. > > Mark > > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > Kindest Regards, Paul Flint (802) 479-2360 /************************************ Based upon email reliability concerns, please send an acknowledgment in response to this note. Paul Flint Barre Open Systems Institute 17 Averill Street Barre, VT 05641 http://www.bosivt.org http://www.flint.com/home skype: flintinfotech Work: (202) 537-0480 Consilium _ gratuitum .~. ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) valet /V\ against HTML e-mail X quanti /( )\ www.asciiribbon.org / \ numerantur ^^-^^ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 21:21:10 -0000 Message-Id: I think that the official name for CNR is something else now. In 2007 the market for a software store was very immature. Now everyone got one. There is Appstore, Android Market, Chrome Web Store, and Microsofts specs for Windows 8 suggests they are planning one. Yeah, there is people that is not interested in using commercial applications. Then just dont, just because we add something like cnr doesnt mean you have to use it. I don't find mixing the FOSS stuff with commercial apps a bad idea. However i would vote for a way to disable it. Technically they should be in their own repo(s), and therefore easy to enable/disable. Just like we handle non-FOSS like flash player right now. This is not for the hardcore Linux users. I probably would buy some games but nothing else, and many others would not buy anything at all. This is for avarage joe that wants his familiar applications easily available. > On 10/23/2010 07:00 AM, Faldegast wrote: > > Take a look at Xandros and their success. CNR seam to work quite well, > > just to bad that their OS is... >=20 > In 2006, there was an announcement of CNR for Ubuntu. It was actually=20 > in Hardy. It never went anywhere. See=20 > http://ubuntu-tutorials.com/2007/02/10/a-dnr-for-linspires-cnr/ for an=20 > example of the response. I do agree that the software "store" could use = > more prominence, but mixing it up with the FOSS stuff is a bad idea to me. >=20 > Also, cnr.com appears to be down right now... Amusing timing. :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Randall Ross (randall) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 21:49:57 -0000 Message-Id: <4CC35885.4000309@executiv.es> @Faldegast The Ubuntu Software Centre (USC) is the way software gets distributed to Ubuntu users. It can accommodate FLOSS, proprietary, and more. New in 10.10 there is a section in USC for commercial apps (that cost money) too. The one thing that all software in USC has in common though is that it is known to work with Ubuntu and can be installed with a single click. (USC is not a place to collect and distribute random software from unknown sources though.) So, are you advocating something bigger than USC? A replacement for it? A more diverse collection of software? Some new features? If so, the best way to proceed would be to write a Blueprint and engage in a discussion with the USC development team. There is a good background document here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter On 10-10-23 02:21 PM, Faldegast wrote: > I think that the official name for CNR is something else now. > > In 2007 the market for a software store was very immature. Now everyone > got one. There is Appstore, Android Market, Chrome Web Store, and > Microsofts specs for Windows 8 suggests they are planning one. > > Yeah, there is people that is not interested in using commercial > applications. Then just dont, just because we add something like cnr > doesnt mean you have to use it. > > I don't find mixing the FOSS stuff with commercial apps a bad idea. > However i would vote for a way to disable it. Technically they should be > in their own repo(s), and therefore easy to enable/disable. Just like we > handle non-FOSS like flash player right now. > > This is not for the hardcore Linux users. I probably would buy some > games but nothing else, and many others would not buy anything at all. > This is for avarage joe that wants his familiar applications easily > available. > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 23:18:13 -0000 Message-Id: Ok. Now I found it. :) I don't think the USC need to be replaced. I will read more about it and perhaps write a blueprint with whatever ideas i get. > @Faldegast >=20 > The Ubuntu Software Centre (USC) is the way software gets distributed to > Ubuntu users. It can accommodate FLOSS, proprietary, and more. New in > 10.10 there is a section in USC for commercial apps (that cost money) > too. The one thing that all software in USC has in common though is that > it is known to work with Ubuntu and can be installed with a single > click. (USC is not a place to collect and distribute random software > from unknown sources though.) >=20 > So, are you advocating something bigger than USC? A replacement for it? > A more diverse collection of software? Some new features? If so, the > best way to proceed would be to write a Blueprint and engage in a > discussion with the USC development team. There is a good background > document here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 08:37:15 -0000 Message-Id: On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 11:51, Artem Karimov wrote: > We are just all tired of guys that respond to help proposals saying > "go f*ck yourself". It is _really_ annoying. Let me neutralize the annoying comment: I would like thank you all for the engagement, the hard work and for the coherence and team spirit that is behind Ubuntu. Whenever I go to the local Ubuntu-Austria meeting I see people I would work with on any project. It's just awesome to see how immediately people help each other. --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 09:53:26 -0000 Message-Id: On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 23:21, Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > In 2007 the market for a software store was very immature. Now everyone > got one. There is Appstore, Android Market, Chrome Web Store, and > Microsofts specs for Windows 8 suggests they are planning one. I think it is necessary to have a software store - for one reason: Just to make it easy to buy the commercial software one wants to use - and then of course the installation must be easy (which on Ubuntu in general already is). If it is hard for people to find, buy and install the software they want to use (and maybe don't know the name of the tool upfront), they might blame the OS for it. That said, regarding making money with/for/from Ubuntu (I read in the news about the money perspective) I thought of the core advantage of Open Source Software: Pay for effort - for work. Nobody thinks of paying a yearly license for having tubes in the wall - no - people pay the plumber when they need him/her for putting additional tubes or doing repair work. I think, it should be the same for software. The advantage of software is that it can be easier duplicated and easier offered than the tubes. In addition to a software store I think what should be introduced in the same easy way is something like pledgebank (http://www.pledgebank.com/) - a platform that allows to easily put money together for implementing feature x or asking for fixing the bug y. Let's say 20 companies are asking for the same thing that maybe costs - lets say - 10000 dollar to implement/fix, it would cost 500 per company. And this payed for one developer working for approximately a month (assuming a country with high taxes). Asking money for using Ubuntu in general (if it is only 10 Dollar, I read about such ideas a few days ago) is not a good idea IMHO. In Hungary for example Microsoft is asking a similar amount for student version of Windows+MSOffice (yes it is like drug-dealing in front of the schools...). DonationCoder (http://www.donationcoder.com/) also have several approaches for funding software development, from micro-donations up to custom-made software request handling through forums. I think, to build an "Ubuntu" for people seeking for programs to be written or bugs to be fixed, combined with a simple way of donation/payment, would be a big gain for Ubuntu. - Especially for companies with need to optimize their overall performance (and the computer is often an important tool for efficient administration in a company). --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 23:50:16 -0000 Message-Id: > On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 23:21, Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > > In 2007 the market for a software store was very immature. Now everyone > > got one. There is Appstore, Android Market, Chrome Web Store, and > > Microsofts specs for Windows 8 suggests they are planning one. >=20 > I think it is necessary to have a software store - for one reason: > Just to make it easy to buy the commercial software one wants to use - > and then of course the installation must be easy (which on Ubuntu in > general already is). If it is hard for people to find, buy and install > the software they want to use (and maybe don't know the name of the > tool upfront), they might blame the OS for it. I think thats one reason. Attracting the developers that currently does not= target Ubuntu/Linux is another. =20 > That said, regarding making money with/for/from Ubuntu (I read in the > news about the money perspective) I thought of the core advantage of > Open Source Software: Pay for effort - for work. >=20 > Nobody thinks of paying a yearly license for having tubes in the wall > - no - people pay the plumber when they need him/her for putting > additional tubes or doing repair work. I think, it should be the same > for software. The advantage of software is that it can be easier > duplicated and easier offered than the tubes. Actually they do. Its called insurance. You pay a monthly fee and if your t= ubes need to be repaired you are not hit with a overwhelming cost. And thats quite similar to software support agreements. You pay a yearly fe= e and when you run into problems, you have someone that will fix it. There = is a huge difference between FOSS business models and closed source busines= s models. If i don't want commercial support, i can download and use the so= ftware. If i want commersial support I can buy RHEL subscriptions, as an ex= ample. The software however, is still free. > In addition to a software store I think what should be introduced in > the same easy way is something like pledgebank > (http://www.pledgebank.com/) - a platform that allows to easily put > money together for implementing feature x or asking for fixing the bug > y. Let's say 20 companies are asking for the same thing that maybe > costs - lets say - 10000 dollar to implement/fix, it would cost 500 > per company. And this payed for one developer working for > approximately a month (assuming a country with high taxes). Perhaps this should be integrated with Ubuntu brainstorm, and other sites w= here such pledges get more exposure? There are also cofundos.org, and possibly other sites? > Asking money for using Ubuntu in general (if it is only 10 Dollar, I > read about such ideas a few days ago) is not a good idea IMHO. In > Hungary for example Microsoft is asking a similar amount for student > version of Windows+MSOffice (yes it is like drug-dealing in front of > the schools...). We already have such an offer for students. Its available for download at w= ww.ubuntu.org. :) I am talking about a commercial version with support, marketing and distrib= ution. And more important, an OEM program.=20 Actually i think Microsoft expect Students to buy a computer with an OEM license and then get the student version, and actually pay more then they have to.... and thats even more evil... > DonationCoder (http://www.donationcoder.com/) also have several > approaches for funding software development, from micro-donations up > to custom-made software request handling through forums. I think, to > build an "Ubuntu" for people seeking for programs to be written or > bugs to be fixed, combined with a simple way of donation/payment, > would be a big gain for Ubuntu. - Especially for companies with need > to optimize their overall performance (and the computer is often an > important tool for efficient administration in a company). Actually i think that is great. But most users don't take time for this. Th= ey would rather buy a box and expect the source of that box to fund such de= velopment. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 11:50:44 -0000 Message-Id: On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 01:50, Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: >> Nobody thinks of paying a yearly license for having tubes in the wall >> - no - people pay the plumber when they need him/her for putting >> additional tubes or doing repair work. I think, it should be the same >> for software. The advantage of software is that it can be easier >> duplicated and easier offered than the tubes. > Actually they do. Its called insurance. You pay a monthly fee and if your= tubes need to be repaired you are not hit with a overwhelming cost. You are right - and I mixed up a few different models. My tube example was comparing to a Windows license and not to a model where you get the software and pay extra and optional for support - as Red Hat offers for example. > Perhaps this should be integrated with Ubuntu brainstorm, and other sites= where such pledges get more exposure? > There are also cofundos.org, and possibly other sites? I would find it good to combine/link Launchpad with brainstorm and integrate something like pledgebank or cofundos - Whether it is a bug or a new feature request, I don't see so much difference in how it should be handled. Even for bugs sometimes it turns out that a complete different solution is better than a quick-and-dirty fix. > I am talking about a commercial version with support, marketing and distr= ibution. And more important, an OEM program. Oh, I understand - I thought that such also already exists. ASFAIK everyone can buy support from Canonical. I personally find those extra commercial versions which maybe include additional patches or maybe not is not very attractive. I like to have one thing and pay for the appropriate support when I have a problem that could need the implementation of a particular fix. > Actually i think Microsoft expect Students to buy a computer with an OEM > license and then get the student version, and actually pay more then > they have to.... That was exactly what I meant. They try to create a dependency. >> DonationCoder (http://www.donationcoder.com/) also have several >> approaches for funding software development, from micro-donations up >> to custom-made software request handling through forums. I think, to >> build an "Ubuntu" for people seeking for programs to be written or >> bugs to be fixed, combined with a simple way of donation/payment, >> would be a big gain for Ubuntu. - Especially for companies with need >> to optimize their overall performance (and the computer is often an >> important tool for efficient administration in a company). > Actually i think that is great. But most users don't take time for this. = They would rather buy a box and expect the source of that box to fund such = development. Yes, agree - not the home users - but you were refering to companies with commercial versions and support. The companies are important to address. IMHO in the home user field Ubuntu cannot be stopped any more in the long run - especially if Ubuntu continues to develop so well as it did in the last one or two years. Of course - as also has been mentioned - it is important to attract developers to address Linux also. Most Windows developers I know are completely ignorant of everything else but Windows although they get beaten by their master (this year use winforms, the next year - oh no - switch to wpf please). One reason might be that software development is under pressure anyway already (so many software vendors - and basically no money needed for a startup or single person to get started). Addressing multiple environments increases complexity signiicantly. And packaging then also must be done separately for each platform. And what options are for a platform agnostic way? Java, Python and Mono - and several very little other players. I do not consider C(++) here because it needs recompile on all supported platforms which then must be maintained at developer side (compiling from source is not an option for getting widely adopted). From those 3 only Java is very well established and many try to ban it to server side only although IMHO the option with the least required effort to make it work on all platforms. Python would also be a good choice but the runtime not widely spread so far (I don't know any Windows workstations at customers where the Python runtime is installed). So for the developers or software vendors it is not an easy thing to develop for multiple platforms - maybe a reason why so many new softwares come as web application and desktop applications still focus on the Windows platform. What does Canonical recommend for companies planning a migration to Ubuntu on the desktop within the next - let's say - 5 years? What should companies do if they need some software development now? OK, this maybe again not seems very relevant to Bug #1, but IMHO there are many factors playing together. Home users buy there hardware often at different shops where companies do and I guess Bug #1 would like to address both groups. --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 12:58:21 -0000 Message-Id: <796288.63606.qm@web24103.mail.ird.yahoo.com> It is not just that Ubuntu has developed a lot over the last 2 or 3 years. Users expectations and hardware have developed into areas either already co= vered=20 by linux kernels or easily implemented as Unix was developed to be a=20 multi-everything system. The introduction of dual/quad-core cpus caught=20 MicroSquish off-balance. They were eventually able to get 64bit versions o= f=20 their OS using it but the rest of their 64bit systems weren't really ready = for=20 widespread use (is anything they use ever ready? I mean before they have=20 dropped support for it). By the time MicroSquish were ready for multi-core= s=20 linux already had it in even lowly 1 'man' 32bit distros. MicroSquish stil= l=20 can't cope with multiple hard-drives in anything but a very broken way. Mm= m,=20 shortcut links (that often break) to certain folders, tasty. Multi-user=20 'security' in Windows is still badly implemented, even for single users it = is a=20 joke but one that people put a huge amount of effort into without actually = solving the inherent flaws in the system. Are Windows 32biut versions able= to=20 handle threading well in multi-core machines? Do their 64bit versions work= for=20 everything else yet? People still have low expectations and low levels of understanding about th= eir=20 systems, at least outside of linux-world. People just don't care about poo= rly=20 produced reports or other documents. It is what they are used to now. Sh= ops=20 are happy to sell extra hard-drives without making it easy to access them. = =20 Blame the user and shame them into not daring to ask questions. Also the forks/off-shoots that have gone on to develop further (such as the= =20 various Spanish Governments ones) have fed back into Ubuntu main as have ni= fty=20 developments first seen in a plethora of totally unrelated distros. Linux kernel developments have benefitted Ubuntu hugely too of course. Yes, Ubuntu has moved on hugely in the past couple of years but this is not= =20 always purely down to Ubuntu's work. OpenSource is really fantastic like t= hat=20 :) Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: zakzor (zakzor) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 13:58:52 -0000 Message-Id: You're absolutely right, Tom. And don't forget our beloved X window system. Long before MS as released its poor and system resource eater Aero, the lin= ux community was ''playing'' with the great Compiz and its cube. And there are some people who still think that Linux has not a graphical en= vironment. Go Linux, zakzor --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 19:43:03 -0000 Message-Id: > On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 01:50, Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > >> Nobody thinks of paying a yearly license for having tubes in the wall > >> - no - people pay the plumber when they need him/her for putting > >> additional tubes or doing repair work. I think, it should be the same > >> for software. The advantage of software is that it can be easier > >> duplicated and easier offered than the tubes. > > Actually they do. Its called insurance. You pay a monthly fee and if yo= ur tubes need to be repaired you are not hit with a overwhelming cost. >=20 > You are right - and I mixed up a few different models. My tube example > was comparing to a Windows license and not to a model where you get > the software and pay extra and optional for support - as Red Hat > offers for example. Yeah, red hat is a very good example. To bad that their desktop version doe= s not have the qualities of the server version. Or actually have the qualit= ies of the server version which is not so desirable for a client... If it w= as as good as Ubuntu I would pay for that to. What i was suggesting was actually a combined business model. We sell ubunt= u packaged like RH does, and we throw in a little extra like a few of the c= ommercial apps available in software center. Currently all we have there is= a DVD player which is a bit dull. I would like to see the few existing gam= es in there to, like Majesty and some more. (yeah, i am a strategy game ner= d. :) ) =20 > > Perhaps this should be integrated with Ubuntu brainstorm, and other sit= es where such pledges get more exposure? > > There are also cofundos.org, and possibly other sites? >=20 > I would find it good to combine/link Launchpad with brainstorm and > integrate something like pledgebank or cofundos - Whether it is a bug > or a new feature request, I don't see so much difference in how it > should be handled. Even for bugs sometimes it turns out that a > complete different solution is better than a quick-and-dirty fix. >=20 >=20 > > I am talking about a commercial version with support, marketing and dis= tribution. And more important, an OEM program. >=20 > Oh, I understand - I thought that such also already exists. ASFAIK > everyone can buy support from Canonical. I personally find those extra > commercial versions which maybe include additional patches or maybe > not is not very attractive. I like to have one thing and pay for the > appropriate support when I have a problem that could need the > implementation of a particular fix. >=20 >=20 > > Actually i think Microsoft expect Students to buy a computer with an OEM > > license and then get the student version, and actually pay more then > > they have to.... >=20 > That was exactly what I meant. They try to create a dependency. >=20 >=20 > >> DonationCoder (http://www.donationcoder.com/) also have several > >> approaches for funding software development, from micro-donations up > >> to custom-made software request handling through forums. I think, to > >> build an "Ubuntu" for people seeking for programs to be written or > >> bugs to be fixed, combined with a simple way of donation/payment, > >> would be a big gain for Ubuntu. - Especially for companies with need > >> to optimize their overall performance (and the computer is often an > >> important tool for efficient administration in a company). > > Actually i think that is great. But most users don't take time for this= . They would rather buy a box and expect the source of that box to fund suc= h development. >=20 > Yes, agree - not the home users - but you were refering to companies > with commercial versions and support. The companies are important to > address. IMHO in the home user field Ubuntu cannot be stopped any more > in the long run - especially if Ubuntu continues to develop so well as > it did in the last one or two years. >=20 > Of course - as also has been mentioned - it is important to attract > developers to address Linux also. Most Windows developers I know are > completely ignorant of everything else but Windows although they get > beaten by their master (this year use winforms, the next year - oh no > - switch to wpf please). One reason might be that software development > is under pressure anyway already (so many software vendors - and > basically no money needed for a startup or single person to get > started). Addressing multiple environments increases complexity > signiicantly. And packaging then also must be done separately for each > platform. >=20 > And what options are for a platform agnostic way? Java, Python and > Mono - and several very little other players. I do not consider C(++) > here because it needs recompile on all supported platforms which then > must be maintained at developer side (compiling from source is not an > option for getting widely adopted). From those 3 only Java is very > well established and many try to ban it to server side only although > IMHO the option with the least required effort to make it work on all > platforms. Python would also be a good choice but the runtime not > widely spread so far (I don't know any Windows workstations at > customers where the Python runtime is installed). So for the > developers or software vendors it is not an easy thing to develop for > multiple platforms - maybe a reason why so many new softwares come as > web application and desktop applications still focus on the Windows > platform. What does Canonical recommend for companies planning a > migration to Ubuntu on the desktop within the next - let's say - 5 > years? What should companies do if they need some software development > now? >=20 > OK, this maybe again not seems very relevant to Bug #1, but IMHO there > are many factors playing together. Home users buy there hardware often > at different shops where companies do and I guess Bug #1 would like to > address both groups. > --=20 > Martin Wildam >=20 > http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam >=20 > --=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. >=20 > Status in Club Distro: Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: New > Status in Ubuntu: In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Inva= lid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: New >=20 > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >=20 > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restrict= ing access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the= ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. Th= is bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >=20 > Steps to repeat: >=20 > 1. Visit a local PC store. >=20 > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-ins= talled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >=20 > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >=20 >=20 >=20 > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2010 21:01:25 -0000 Message-Id: Read in the news that there is planned to use unity in future Ubuntu versions as main desktop. I did not tried myself but heard and read of _many_ people that this is still really buggy. I do personally fully understand, that Ubuntu needs to keep up with innovation and there is the desire to deliver a very easy to use OS - even for the newcomer. But: 1. I find the Gnome desktop already very clean and easy to use - even for the newcomer (I switched >60 year old people without the need of any more support after 2 weeks - this is basically the time a person needs to destroy a Windows installation by virus or any other stuff installed - at least my experience). 2. Today turned on Maverick and after login found 3 new bugs. And there are still some older ones I am still waiting for a fix - for Lucid and for Maverick also - annoying bugs. So the point is: After 9.04 and 9.10 (those really worked in an awesome stable way) my experiences with 10.04 and 10.10 are getting worse. So please, please, focus more on bug fixing than on introducing new user ui, which already is really good! --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: skybon (skybon-deactivatedaccount-deactivatedaccount) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2010 21:24:58 -0000 Message-Id: I agree. I tried running the Unity on Maverick on the 2004 laptop with P4 and Radeon 9600 video. That was a disaster! Even the ppa purge could not make the system gui bootable again. Had to make a transition to Arch Linux. On 2 November 2010 00:01, Martin Wildam <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Read in the news that there is planned to use unity in future Ubuntu > versions as main desktop. > > I did not tried myself but heard and read of _many_ people that this > is still really buggy. > > I do personally fully understand, that Ubuntu needs to keep up with > innovation and there is the desire to deliver a very easy to use OS - > even for the newcomer. > > But: > > 1. I find the Gnome desktop already very clean and easy to use - even > for the newcomer (I switched >60 year old people without the need of > any more support after 2 weeks - this is basically the time a person > needs to destroy a Windows installation by virus or any other stuff > installed - at least my experience). > > 2. Today turned on Maverick and after login found 3 new bugs. And > there are still some older ones I am still waiting for a fix - for > Lucid and for Maverick also - annoying bugs. > > So the point is: After 9.04 and 9.10 (those really worked in an > awesome stable way) my experiences with 10.04 and 10.10 are getting > worse. So please, please, focus more on bug fixing than on introducing > new user ui, which already is really good! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2010 21:49:59 -0000 Message-Id: <972940.71149.qm@web24108.mail.ird.yahoo.com> I am getting most of my people to stick with 10.04 (LTS). I will be trying= out=20 a few newer releases but only on a spare partition especially at first. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2010 23:30:29 -0000 Message-Id: On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 22:49, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > I am getting most of my people to stick with 10.04 (LTS). =C2=A0I will be= trying out > a few newer releases but only on a spare partition especially at first. I am also on 10.04 - although 9.10 would have been the better LTS. Please, please focus on the quality and only then on further improvements of usability. Ubuntu already is very usable. Please focus on removing the bugs. --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2010 00:16:46 -0000 Message-Id: Because of the latest problems with network-manager I tried wicd - and bum - next bug report. Currently I think I could spend the whole day with bug reporting... - that is sad... --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Fabien Basmaison (fabien.basmaison) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 04:39:00 -0000 Message-Id: <4CDF67E4.5090307@arkhi.org> I fully second that. Build to make Ubuntu more robust before adding features. Le 02/11/2010 05:01, Martin Wildam a =C3=A9crit : > So please, please, focus more on bug fixing than on introducing new=20 > user ui, which already is really good! > Fabien Basmaison --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Maddy (nmadhava) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 18:57:21 -0000 Message-Id: <20101123185722.25763.50808.malone@gandwana.canonical.com> Very happy using Ubuntu in my office.=20 Been using it for last 4 years and loving it. BTW, have converted atleast 10-15 to use Ubuntu in our team :) We need to educate people to make them use Ubuntu Thanks Maddy --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2010 09:18:24 -0000 Message-Id: <310070.22203.qm@web24103.mail.ird.yahoo.com> One of my clients has a dual-boot system so that WHEN Windows goes wrong he= can=20 still use the machine but he is reluctant to use Ubuntu and keeps making=20 increasingly small excuses for not trying it. The latest was the nautilus = file-browser displays things as icon (queue long rant). Before he had fini= shed=20 ranting i had changed the default. He has an ancient hand-held which used to need some proprietary software to= =20 synch with the machine. Ubuntu has something better (covers more machines)= free=20 but he can't get a copy of the software he used in Xp. =20 The only blocker now is the few minutes/hours he would need to set-up the U= serID=20 on the hand-held and in JPilot to allow them to synch. He is happier with = the=20 idea of spending days or even weeks trying to get another copy of the old=20 proprietary software which will still need him to spend a few minutes/hours= =20 sorting the UserID on both the hand-held and in the software. When people feel that many days and hours sorting a Windows problem is fine= but=20 spending a few minutes on a Linux problem is unbearable it is difficult and= =20 frustrating for us. In Windows everything "just works" is a lie but one th= at is=20 believed by people even as they spend many hours trying to fix a flaky Wind= ows=20 system. Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2010 09:42:40 -0000 Message-Id: On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 10:18, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > When people feel that many days and hours sorting a Windows problem is fi= ne but > spending a few minutes on a Linux problem is unbearable it is difficult a= nd > frustrating for us. Yes. Full Ack! > =C2=A0In Windows everything "just works" is a lie No, it's not a lie - it's a damn lie! But seriously: Yesterday in train I have seen a young woman with a super stylish Sony notebook with Vista or Win 7 on it, needing 3 attempts of typing a word until finding out the caps lock is on and spending a minute on adjusting the spaces in the Word document header to have a text centered and the (of course manually entered) current date on the right. - You can be sure that there is a large amount of people working that way and seriously: For those it is completely irrelevant if they have menus or ribbons or whatever OS underneath. They are completely lost anyway. - This is a reason why I find it more important to focus development of Ubuntu on those who want to be productive and not on the completely newbies. - Those who have a small rest of flexibiilty will adapt to a little changing in the GUI and the others are lost anyway - with their old or new OS and applications. Best regards, Martin. --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2010 12:35:01 -0000 Message-Id: <847419.57804.qm@web24107.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Anyone buying a Sony computer is onto an sure-fire fail anyway, at le= ast=20 according to many links about their (lack of) customer support =3D notably = around=20 any super-slick fancy machines of 1 or 2 years ago (and still being sold) w= ith=20 the G84 NVidia chip which burns out due to lack of cooling INSIDE the chip!= =20 Although NVidia have admitted some liability, companies using the chip are = still=20 reluctant to help their customers. Oh, except Hewlett Packard of course, f= or=20 some reason they seem to have more honour than most. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2010 13:02:20 -0000 Message-Id: <554543.27356.qm@web24102.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hopefully the unsupported and old hand-held might prove to be one hook for = this=20 person. The clincher should (hopefully) be that their most recent emails a= re=20 now on Thunderbird in Ubuntu and no longer on Thunderbird in Windows. =20 I had to abandon the idea of sharing unless i create a special ntfs specifi= cally=20 for sharing stuff between Windows and Ubuntu which would probably have been= a=20 good idea from the start of the whole 'migration'. Automounting the main=20 Windows partition through fstab looks toooo dangerous. Of course i have=20 installed grsync (very nice gui btw) and the last command-line action was t= o=20 rsync the Ubuntu files to the Windows folder in=20 Docs&Settings/user/ApplicationData/Thunderbird/Profiles to complete the job i think i should have also rsync'd it to=20 Docs&Settings/user/LocalData/ApplicationData/Thunderbird/Profiles as well. Obviously a much easier pathname to reach= than=20 Ubuntu's /home/user/thunderbird (which is safely on a separate partition from the /= =20 Something else Windows is unlikely to ever manage) So all the person needs to do is press up arrow 1 time and then enter to ba= ck-up=20 and get Windows up-to-date. I guess that next time i pop round i could set= that=20 up as a script but i haven't done any scripting before (not counting html, = css &=20 wiki's). It will be easier for me to do the shared partition route i would= =20 guess, at least for me. When i first started posting in this thread, even a few months ago i would = have=20 looked at this post in horror but learning is so easy with Ubuntu it is alm= ost=20 impossible to notice one's own rapid growth. Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 04:56:45 -0000 Message-Id: <227545.55495.qm@web24107.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Lets hope the big switch happens next year! Manufacturers developing OpenS= ource=20 drivers by paying experienced and/or skilled OpenSource devs to do the work= . =20 OpenSource distros decently installed on machines (and tweaked) in shops=20 along-side dual-boots and MicroSquished machines. =20 Merry Christmas to all that observe that holiday, and may everyone else hav= e a=20 good time too :) Many regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 08:01:08 -0000 Message-Id: Hi folks, While I am pretty satisfied now with Ubuntu 10.04.1 with all updates applied, the 10.10 is far from being perfect. I can directly compare because I have 2 times exactly same hardware - one with 10.04.1 and one with 10.10. With the 10.10 I have problems with network (WLAN) and sound as well - just from the drivers perspective. Regarding applications I also have issues. So when we want Ubuntu have real success, the quality must fit. Maybe I am one of the few who thinks that the unity is a good idea, but the quality of the core OS and it's applications is more important! Please keep that in mind. --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Randall Ross (randall) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 08:15:21 -0000 Message-Id: <4D37EF19.4000000@executiv.es> @Martin Wildman, Kindly advise if your hardware is on the Ubuntu-certified list for both Ubuntu 10.04 and 10.10. The list can be found here: http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 08:27:40 -0000 Message-Id: <923228.70924.qm@web24108.mail.ird.yahoo.com> The LTS releases are often quite a lot better than the 6 monthlies but the = 6=20 monthlies are good fun and do often push into interesting areas. So, i tend to have an LTS as my main stable but i use a spare partition fo= r=20 exploring and playing around. If something doesn't work in one but does in= the=20 other then it is usually fixable if you have the time & patience to ask in = forums or read documentation or find your own way. Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 09:09:01 -0000 Message-Id: On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 09:15, Randall Ross (rrnwexec) wrote: > @Martin Wildman, > Kindly advise if your hardware is on the Ubuntu-certified list for both > Ubuntu 10.04 and 10.10. > The list can be found here: http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification/ I have 2x Dell Latitude E-5500. When I bought them I was not aware of the certification list, but however I did research and told my Dell contact person, that I want a Linux compatible machine. I have paid attention to have a supported video card built in and so on. I mean, what do you expect else from people? The list of supported hardware is a pretty small amount in relation to what is on the market. I already focus on Dell and models people tell me that they are working. And guess, it worked without problems on 9.04 (although I remember there were two issues that have been solved with some updates - if I remember right) and I had no real issue with 9.10. With 10.04 I have two issues with workarounds. 10.10 is the worst now. In fact, currently I strictly refer to the list of certified models, but it is not always possible to follow that 100%. People see special offers in shops or at vendor websites or build their PC on their own. In general I was instructed always to check whether the built-in parts are Linux-compatible or not. BTW: Don't know how long it takes after a model is released until certification has gone through - could there be a serious delay? On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 09:27, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > The LTS releases are often quite a lot better than the 6 monthlies but th= e 6 > monthlies are good fun and do often push into interesting areas. On my machine I had everything from 9.04 to 10.10 - can't say, that LTS necessarily was the best from my experience. I would say 9.10 was for me having the least issues. That said, I do use more applications now on 10.04 than I did no 9.10 (number of applications in daily use is increasing I would say). > So, i tend to have an LTS as my main stable but i use a spare partition = for > exploring and playing around. Since 9.10 I do contribute with testing from the early betas helping to push quality - don't leave out a version, but decided not to update every 6 months on my production machine. > If something doesn't work in one but does in the > other then it is usually fixable if you have the time & patience to ask in > forums or read documentation or find your own way. Of course, I use the forums and Launchpad for bug reporting. I do my best to help. If you sum up the hours I helped so far in money, I could have bought Windows and MS Office with no problem... --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 09:16:45 -0000 Message-Id: On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 10:09, Wildam Martin wrote: >> If something doesn't work in one but does in the >> other then it is usually fixable if you have the time & patience to ask = in >> forums or read documentation or find your own way. > Of course, I use the forums and Launchpad for bug reporting. I do my > best to help. If you sum up the hours I helped so far in money, I > could have bought Windows and MS Office with no problem... Don't get me wrong: I am strongly convinced about the Open Source model and I appreciate the work and contribution of everyone. And of course I get all the contributions of the others for free. I am also convinced of the Ubuntu philosophy. My message should be, that with all the new ideas, don't forget about the quality - it is high priority! I left Windows because I could not rely on the core OS any more - that was my main reason to leave. Would be terrible if I would end up the same way using Ubuntu. --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 09:37:30 -0000 Message-Id: <590191.39141.qm@web24105.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) Absence from the list does not mean anything. If something is on the list = then=20 it definitely works but if it is not on the list then it almost certainly w= ill=20 work too. It is a good list for ensuring that new purchases are going to w= ork=20 fairly easily. It is impossible to find&list everything that linux works on. These sorts = of=20 lists tend to be generated by a small percentage of users using the "System= =20 Testing" tool or just reporting back to the list about hardware they person= ally=20 have found easy. Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Randall Ross (randall) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 13:49:38 -0000 Message-Id: <4D383D72.7070308@executiv.es> @Tom, The Ubuntu-certified list is generated by Canonical and is the authoritative list. Absence from this list means that the system in question has not been rigorously tested. There are other lists that the community builds, which are "best guesses". Some of those use "System Testing" but that's not a prerequisite. The statement that "if it is not on the list then it almost certainly will work too" is erroneous. A search through Ubuntu forums, Launchpad Answers, and Ask Ubuntu will yield thousands of counter-examples. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Paul Flint (flint) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 01:14:13 -0000 Message-Id: Greetings, Imagine my surprise that when I arrive in Costa Rica, the public terminals = at the Hotel Aranjuez (http://www.hotelaranjuez.com/) are running Maverick = Meerkat. Could it be that these terminals using Ubuntu are easier to maintain? I will talk to their techie tomorrow... Expect a full report, BTW excellent hotel besides... Kindest Regards, Paul Flint (802) 479-2360 /************************************ Based upon email reliability concerns, please send an acknowledgment in response to this note. Paul Flint Barre Open Systems Institute 17 Averill Street Barre, VT 05641 http://www.bosivt.org http://www.flint.com/home skype: flintinfotech Work: (202) 537-0480 Consilium _ gratuitum .~. ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) valet /V\ against HTML e-mail X quanti /( )\ www.asciiribbon.org / \ numerantur ^^-^^ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: skybon (skybon-deactivatedaccount-deactivatedaccount) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 01:42:17 -0000 Message-Id: Of course. Windows Update is a joke. 2011/3/22 Paul Flint > Greetings, > > Imagine my surprise that when I arrive in Costa Rica, the public terminals > at the Hotel Aranjuez (http://www.hotelaranjuez.com/) are running Maverick > Meerkat. > > Could it be that these terminals using Ubuntu are easier to maintain? > > I will talk to their techie tomorrow... > > Expect a full report, BTW excellent hotel besides... > > Kindest Regards, > > Paul Flint > (802) 479-2360 > > > /************************************ > Based upon email reliability concerns, > please send an acknowledgment in response to this note. > > Paul Flint > Barre Open Systems Institute > 17 Averill Street > Barre, VT > 05641 > > http://www.bosivt.org > http://www.flint.com/home > skype: flintinfotech > Work: (202) 537-0480 > > Consilium _ > gratuitum .~. ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) > valet /V\ against HTML e-mail X > quanti /( )\ www.asciiribbon.org / \ > numerantur ^^-^^ > > -- > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share > > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in GNOME Screensaver: > Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: > In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > New > Status in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: > Invalid > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: > Invalid > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full > potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe > --=20 Artem Karimov --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: zakzor (zakzor) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 02:29:03 -0000 Message-Id: <4D88096F.7090409@gmail.com> Glad to hear someone have their eyes open. Everyone should follow them. Its easier to maintain and its free. zakzor >> Greetings, >> >> Imagine my surprise that when I arrive in Costa Rica, the public termina= ls >> at the Hotel Aranjuez (http://www.hotelaranjuez.com/) are running Maveri= ck >> Meerkat. >> >> Could it be that these terminals using Ubuntu are easier to maintain? >> >> I will talk to their techie tomorrow... >> >> Expect a full report, BTW excellent hotel besides... >> >> Kindest Regards, >> >> Paul Flint >> (802) 479-2360 >> >> >> /************************************ >> Based upon email reliability concerns, >> please send an acknowledgment in response to this note. >> >> Paul Flint >> Barre Open Systems Institute >> 17 Averill Street >> Barre, VT >> 05641 >> >> http://www.bosivt.org >> http://www.flint.com/home >> skype: flintinfotech >> Work: (202) 537-0480 >> >> Consilium _ >> gratuitum .~. ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) >> valet /V\ against HTML e-mail X >> quanti /( )\ www.asciiribbon.org / \ >> numerantur ^^-^^ >> >> -- >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber >> of the bug. >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> >> Title: >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> >> Status in Club Distro: >> Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: >> Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: >> Invalid >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: >> Won't Fix >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: >> Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: >> Invalid >> Status in The Linux OS Project: >> In Progress >> Status in The Metacity Window Manager: >> In Progress >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: >> In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: >> Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: >> Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: >> New >> Status in Ubuntu: >> In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: >> Invalid >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: >> Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: >> Invalid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: >> Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: >> In Progress >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: >> Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: >> In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: >> New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplac= e. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full >> potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software li= ke >> Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features a= nd >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: IDWMaster (webadm) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 02:44:46 -0000 Message-Id: Would be nice if developers only had to support Linux (unfortunately; not=20 enough people use Linux yet, especially for commercial applications). It's = a=20 lot better than trying to run 5 different OSs at once to test for=20 compatibility with different operating systems (I try to make my software=20 work on Windows 7, Ubuntu Linux, Windows XP, Windows Phone 7, and Gentoo=20 Linux). -----Original Message-----=20 From: zakzor Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 9:29 PM To: webadm@elcnet.servehttp.com Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Hotel Aranjuez, San Juan Costa Rica Glad to hear someone have their eyes open. Everyone should follow them. Its easier to maintain and its free. zakzor >> Greetings, >> >> Imagine my surprise that when I arrive in Costa Rica, the public=20 >> terminals >> at the Hotel Aranjuez (http://www.hotelaranjuez.com/) are running=20 >> Maverick >> Meerkat. >> >> Could it be that these terminals using Ubuntu are easier to maintain? >> >> I will talk to their techie tomorrow... >> >> Expect a full report, BTW excellent hotel besides... >> >> Kindest Regards, >> >> Paul Flint >> (802) 479-2360 >> >> >> /************************************ >> Based upon email reliability concerns, >> please send an acknowledgment in response to this note. >> >> Paul Flint >> Barre Open Systems Institute >> 17 Averill Street >> Barre, VT >> 05641 >> >> http://www.bosivt.org >> http://www.flint.com/home >> skype: flintinfotech >> Work: (202) 537-0480 >> >> Consilium _ >> gratuitum .~. ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) >> valet /V\ against HTML e-mail X >> quanti /( )\ www.asciiribbon.org / \ >> numerantur ^^-^^ >> >> -- >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber >> of the bug. >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> >> Title: >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> >> Status in Club Distro: >> Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: >> Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: >> Invalid >> Status in GNOME Screensaver: >> Won't Fix >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: >> Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: >> Invalid >> Status in The Linux OS Project: >> In Progress >> Status in The Metacity Window Manager: >> In Progress >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: >> In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: >> Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: >> Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: >> New >> Status in Ubuntu: >> In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: >> Invalid >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: >> Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: >> Invalid >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: >> Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: >> In Progress >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: >> Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: >> In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: >> New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC=20 >> marketplace. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full >> potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software=20 >> like >> Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features=20 >> and >> benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe --=20 You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber of the bug. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 Title: Microsoft has a majority market share Status in Club Distro: Confirmed Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress Status in Tabuntu: Invalid Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid Status in Tv-Player: New Status in Ubuntu: In Progress Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: Invalid Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: Invalid Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed Status in openSUSE: In Progress Status in Tilix Linux: New Bug description: Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. Steps to repeat: 1. Visit a local PC store. What happens: 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software=20 pre-installed. 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. What should happen: 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like = Ubuntu. 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and = benefits would be apparent and known by all. 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 12:57:52 -0000 Message-Id: <842546.71505.qm@web24104.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Once again i find the draft print is better quality in LibreOffice (Ubuntu = 10.10=20 & 11.04) than in MS Office in Windows. Seemed faster too but i think that = was=20 just fanboyism. Wireless seemed to be a pain to set-up so we really need t= o=20 keep hassling those manufacturers to give us resources to build OpenSource = drivers. Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 05:59:52 -0000 Message-Id: Hi folks, I am pretty sure that there is enough negative feedback on the Unity thing of people not familiar with the UI any more now. I want to tell, that on my Lucid I am about to get the optimum configuration for AWN which I want to use on a regular basis because I think can improve my productivity. When I look at Natty and the Unity desktop I can say that the unity desktop is a step in the same direction. Unfortunately in unity several core elements are inefficient to reach and hidden in a non-user-friendly way and there are still some issues and I definitely would have preferred when unity would have been introduced as a new option and not already as the default UI. However, I am optimistic that things will develop into the right direction and when it is mature and user-proofen for efficiency I will use it. Maybe the reason, why unity already got the default is to have many people use it. If it would have been only an option and not the default, maybe only a very few would have used and tested (maybe only the geeks among us)... --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Cariaga (mzc) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 06:26:53 -0000 Message-Id: Unity is ahead or at least in the direction to resolve bug #1 . I agree with Martin. Looking forward to the outcome of the recent UDS...and hopefully by the time the next release comes out, there would be enough PC makers to make Ubuntu visible and easily available for consumers to buy in at least the major markets. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 22:30:34 -0000 Message-Id: Hi, I wanted to recommend a notebook to a friend - and what do I read on the Ubuntu homepage: http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/make/Dell/laptops - "(Pre-installed only, with notes)" or even worse "(Pre-installed only)" HELLO?!? - I mean, even if there would be a terrific increase in offered machines with Ubuntu on them (which is what Bug #1 wants), I hope we want to keep being open. Ubuntu certified must be that it works out-of-the-box (not only with the preinstalled installation) - as this is what is expected by the Windows users on Windows also (re-install must be possible with whatever CD of Windows) - so when a user buys an Ubuntu-certified machine, he/she should get one that works even after manual reinstall from any Ubuntu-x.y-CD. The Ubuntu-certified standard should not be soaked. Best regards. --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Cariaga (mzc) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 23:51:02 -0000 Message-Id: NEWS FLASH: MICROSOFT Q4 EARNINGS 30% JUMP from previous quarter; WINDOWS SHOWING WEAK SALES - NO GROWTH Looks like bug#1 is halfway to being closed, But where do we steer the ship? Better yet, how do we keep sailing into the horizon? Each and every ubuntu release I see hope that one day we will hit mainstream. The ubuntu community and Canonical has their roles to keep our ship sailing. And we are not out of the storm yet, but probably sailing in the eye of the storm. We must keep on promoting ubuntu on its strengths and keep pushing daily computing tasks easy to do on the ubuntu platform. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 16:52:17 -0000 Message-Id: Hi folks, I followed a discussion on LinkedIn with more than 400 comments and tried to extract the 15 most relevant reasons why people think, that Linux is currently not used on the desktop: 1. Slick Microsoft PR, Windows is the defacto standard or simply inherited monopoly. (18 votes) 2. Missing appropriate software on Linux (for particular needs) / Vendor Lock-in. (18 votes) 3. Compatibility issues Linux-Windows in software when collaborating. (13 v= otes) 4. Too much tech-knowhow needed (just for nerds, servers and/or for commandline junkies). (11 votes) 5. People already know Windows and are simply resistant to change (and will struggle). (10 votes) 6. Lack of awareness / Ignorance or simply decision of management. (9 votes) 7. (Migration) costs (get it to work, experience, train users etc). (9 vote= s) 8. Missing Linux Knowhow (and not enough time to dig into it). (7 votes) 9. Hardware compatibility issues. (7 votes) 10. Less educated specialists/administrators available or cost more. (7 vot= es) 11. People don't want to run risks and do what the others do (using the market leader). (6 votes) 12. Better support (because you pay for the software and have a contract). (6 votes) 13. Windows already there on the shipped PC. (6 votes) 14. Too much confusion because many distros, desktop environments. (6 votes) 15. Windows (and apps) looks/works better, is easier to use and/or has better/more features (6 votes) It took me a while to extract and I think these are relevant for solving bug 1, that's why I post them here. --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 18:05:42 -0000 Message-Id: ad 2.: Mentioned were: Branch specific, special used apps not platform independent and/or not integrated well, AD, Deployment, AS400, Sage, Meeting- and Conference-Software, Photoshop, Exchange-Integration, Smart-Phone-Integration, AutoCAD, Screen Reader ad 3.: Mentioned were: MSO vs OO/LO, some proprietary formats can't be read, Domain-Integration, Some websites are IE only, General compatibility-fears oh, btw - here's the link to the LinkedIn-Thread: http://lnkd.in/g-24Kf --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 22:25:20 -0000 Message-Id: Personally i think MSN is an important showstopper. Linux implementations o= f MSN lacks important futures such as cam support, and there are no good al= ternative. The problem with implementing MSN or other proprietary protocols is that most of the time is spent in trying to preserve portability. I would suggest designing a new MSN-like protocol that is easy to implement. It should have open specifications, and it should reuse existing FOSS projects as much as possible. Also it should be platform-agnostic, it is perhaps more important to have a Windows client then a Linux client. Remember that Firefox would never have made the web platform agnostic without attracting the Windows users. First of all we would need a centralized single sign-on service like passport, that use e-mail and password to sing in. The software for this should not be difficult to design and implement, however someone will have to host it. There are not much profit to be made for a open and free SSO server and if successful it could generate a lot of system load. Here we would have a great advantage. There are no established SSO service other than passport, and its license agreement makes most sites run away as fast as they can, in practice its only usable by Microsoft and some of their partners. If we make something that any site can use, we could attract a lot of sites. Naturally as it would be a open and free solution, we can implement support for it in FOSS software like PHPBB, Drupal etc - something that will never happen with Microsoft Passport. After that we would have to figure out how to design a open and free chat system. It would need to work like MSN which suggest central servers, and not only for sing-on. When you are signed in, you would expect to be able to send messages to any other users that are signed on. Perhaps we can borrow design from IRC with its networks. It may be impossible to have just one network, and probably disadvantageous as whoever operates it gets a lot of power. However the general idea is that by designing a new protocol stack we could compete with and probably replace closed protocols like MSN and make messaging a non-issue. When it comes to Office and Photoshop we don't really need to replace them. The wine team is doing a great job in running them. I consider IE a non issue, it is rapidly losing usage share... while some sites still requires it they will have to rethink it in the next few years, or turn away a lot of users. Also remember that what we need is to break Microsofts majority usage share, not to gain 100% of it... personally i would say that getting 10% is a reasonable goal even if it would still leave Microsoft with a majority share... but it would make FOSS the second largest player and push apple to a third place, and i think that would be a great milestone. In order to grow we do not need to cover every taste, we need to cover the taste of more early adopters. Those that whine about AD and Exchange-integration will continue whining when that is done. They need 100% Windows compatibility and quite frankly we will never have that... Early adopters however care more about stuff like browsers and instant messaging. Just the fact that Firefox made most of the web browsable on Linux probably doubled the Linux usage share. It is my prediction that taking charge of instant messages will have a similar effect. > Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 18:05:42 +0000 > From: 1@bugs.launchpad.net > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > Subject: Re: [Bug 1] >=20 > ad 2.: Mentioned were: Branch specific, special used apps not platform > independent and/or not integrated well, AD, Deployment, AS400, Sage, > Meeting- and Conference-Software, Photoshop, Exchange-Integration, > Smart-Phone-Integration, AutoCAD, Screen Reader >=20 > ad 3.: Mentioned were: MSO vs OO/LO, some proprietary formats can't be > read, Domain-Integration, Some websites are IE only, General > compatibility-fears >=20 > oh, btw - here's the link to the LinkedIn-Thread: http://lnkd.in/g-24Kf > --=20 > Martin Wildam >=20 > http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam >=20 > --=20 > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >=20 > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in elementary OS: > In Progress > Status in GenOS: > In Progress > Status in GNOME Screensaver: > Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: > In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > New > Status in Ubuntu Gnome Remix Metapackages: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: > Invalid > Status in Arch Linux: > New > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New >=20 > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >=20 > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full > potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >=20 > Steps to repeat: >=20 > 1. Visit a local PC store. >=20 > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-i= nstalled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >=20 > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software lik= e Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features an= d benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >=20 > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?q?Danielle_For=C3=A9_=28danrabbit=29?= Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 22:46:07 -0000 Message-Id: <20110729224609.20388.44341.malone@soybean.canonical.com> Marking as invalid for elementary. The goal should not be user hoarding but instead creating a good product. (also I just want to stop getting mail about this "bug") --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 22:51:50 -0000 Message-Id: On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 00:25, Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Personally i think MSN is an important showstopper. > Linux implementations of MSN lacks important > futures such as cam support, and there are no good alternative. I find much more people - even at companies - using Skype over MSN (anyway, final result is the same now ;-) ). > The problem with implementing MSN or other proprietary protocols is that > most of the time is spent in trying to preserve portability. I would > suggest designing a new MSN-like protocol that is easy to implement. It > should have open specifications, and it should reuse existing FOSS > projects as much as possible. Also it should be platform-agnostic, it is > perhaps more important to have a Windows client then a Linux client. > Remember that Firefox would never have made the web platform agnostic > without attracting the Windows users. Agree. > First of all we would need a centralized single sign-on service like > passport, that use e-mail and password to sing in. There is already OpenID - but I don't use it much anyway - I don't like the idea bet everything on one horse. When my openid would then get hacked and somebody changes password I loose everything at once. I use KeePassX which serves me well to manage different passwords. I have put together also a few comments to the reasons of not using Linux, mentioned earlier, who is interested follow this link: http://it-tactics.blogspot.com/2011/07/why-companies-do-not-use-linux-on.ht= ml --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 23:24:49 -0000 Message-Id: <4E334141.2080209@hal-pc.org> On 07/29/2011 05:25 PM, Faldegast wrote: > Personally i think MSN is an important showstopper. Linux implementations= of MSN lacks important futures such as cam support, and there are no good = alternative. > > The problem with implementing MSN or other proprietary protocols is that > most of the time is spent in trying to preserve portability. I would > suggest designing a new MSN-like protocol that is easy to implement. It > should have open specifications, and it should reuse existing FOSS > projects as much as possible. Also it should be platform-agnostic, it is > perhaps more important to have a Windows client then a Linux client. Patch applied. Software - http://jitsi.org/ Sevice - Any Jingle or http://jitsi.org/ Now just get all your friends to use it. :) Lee --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 10:45:00 -0000 Message-Id: Those things are not two different things. More users means more funding, t= esting and development which means building a better product. Mozilla is a = good example of this. If you want to stop getting mail about this bug then read the entire message. Click on the link to the bug and unsubscribe... > Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 22:46:07 +0000 > From: 1@bugs.launchpad.net > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > Subject: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Marking as invalid for elementary. The goal should not be user hoarding > but instead creating a good product. (also I just want to stop getting > mail about this "bug") >=20 > ** Changed in: elementaryos > Status: In Progress =3D> Invalid >=20 > --=20 > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >=20 > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in elementary OS: > Invalid > Status in GenOS: > In Progress > Status in GNOME Screensaver: > Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: > In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > New > Status in Ubuntu Gnome Remix Metapackages: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: > Invalid > Status in Arch Linux: > New > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New >=20 > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >=20 > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full > potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >=20 > Steps to repeat: >=20 > 1. Visit a local PC store. >=20 > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-i= nstalled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >=20 > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software lik= e Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features an= d benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >=20 > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 11:04:53 -0000 Message-Id: Thanks. First i will check it out and see if it meets my demands.=20 > Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 23:24:49 +0000 > From: 1@bugs.launchpad.net > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > Subject: [Bug 1]=20 >=20 > On 07/29/2011 05:25 PM, Faldegast wrote: > > Personally i think MSN is an important showstopper. Linux implementatio= ns of MSN lacks important futures such as cam support, and there are no goo= d alternative. > > > > The problem with implementing MSN or other proprietary protocols is that > > most of the time is spent in trying to preserve portability. I would > > suggest designing a new MSN-like protocol that is easy to implement. It > > should have open specifications, and it should reuse existing FOSS > > projects as much as possible. Also it should be platform-agnostic, it is > > perhaps more important to have a Windows client then a Linux client. >=20 > Patch applied. >=20 > Software - http://jitsi.org/ > Sevice - Any Jingle or http://jitsi.org/ >=20 > Now just get all your friends to use it. :) >=20 > Lee >=20 > --=20 > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >=20 > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in elementary OS: > Invalid > Status in GenOS: > In Progress > Status in GNOME Screensaver: > Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: > In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > New > Status in Ubuntu Gnome Remix Metapackages: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: > Invalid > Status in Arch Linux: > New > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New >=20 > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >=20 > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full > potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >=20 > Steps to repeat: >=20 > 1. Visit a local PC store. >=20 > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-i= nstalled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >=20 > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software lik= e Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features an= d benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >=20 > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 11:24:32 -0000 Message-Id: > Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 22:51:50 +0000 > From: 1@bugs.launchpad.net > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > Subject: Re: [Bug 1] >=20 > On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 00:25, Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > > Personally i think MSN is an important showstopper. > > Linux implementations of MSN lacks important > > futures such as cam support, and there are no good alternative. >=20 > I find much more people - even at companies - using Skype over MSN > (anyway, final result is the same now ;-) ). Thats probably bc you are talking to tech ppl and not to average users. MSN still has a far more massive userbase then Skype. But yes having Skypes functionality in the protocol would be nice. >=20 >=20 > > The problem with implementing MSN or other proprietary protocols is that > > most of the time is spent in trying to preserve portability. I would > > suggest designing a new MSN-like protocol that is easy to implement. It > > should have open specifications, and it should reuse existing FOSS > > projects as much as possible. Also it should be platform-agnostic, it is > > perhaps more important to have a Windows client then a Linux client. > > Remember that Firefox would never have made the web platform agnostic > > without attracting the Windows users. >=20 > Agree. >=20 >=20 > > First of all we would need a centralized single sign-on service like > > passport, that use e-mail and password to sing in. >=20 > There is already OpenID - but I don't use it much anyway - I don't > like the idea bet everything on one horse. When my openid would then > get hacked and somebody changes password I loose everything at once. > I use KeePassX which serves me well to manage different passwords. I know about OpenID but it has a lot of problems. First its non- intuitive and requires some learning before using. Passport does not require much learning as it uses e-mail plus password, a scheme that many websites already uses. This is why it is important that the organization running the identity serv= ice is someone we can trust. If it is hacked there must be a quick way to g= et support. This is similar to the problem of stolen VISA cards. We can call our bank a= nd quickly disable in, and get a new one. This is one of the problems with = OpenID, what provider should i choose in order to feel safe? I know Google = and Facebook is no alternative... I would feel somewhat more safe with the = local computer club but what if it is closed down? And even large companies= may disappear... >=20 > I have put together also a few comments to the reasons of not using > Linux, mentioned earlier, who is interested follow this link: > http://it-tactics.blogspot.com/2011/07/why-companies-do-not-use-linux-on.= html I will read it later. However my main point is that average users is far more important then companies. It is the average users that run companies. If the IT department insist on using Windows when users want Linux, they will lose employees end eventually money. >=20 > --=20 > Martin Wildam >=20 > http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam >=20 > --=20 > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >=20 > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in elementary OS: > Invalid > Status in GenOS: > In Progress > Status in GNOME Screensaver: > Won't Fix > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: > In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > New > Status in Ubuntu Gnome Remix Metapackages: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: > Invalid > Status in Arch Linux: > New > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New >=20 > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >=20 > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full > potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >=20 > Steps to repeat: >=20 > 1. Visit a local PC store. >=20 > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-i= nstalled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >=20 > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software lik= e Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features an= d benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >=20 > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 13:01:07 -0000 Message-Id: <1312030867.91772.YahooMailRC@web24102.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) To un-subscribe visit the page at=20 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 and login using your Launchpad login (OpenId works). Then somewhere up o= n the=20 top right is an "Unsubscribe" link. Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 13:11:30 -0000 Message-Id: <1312031490.99320.YahooMailRC@web24106.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) I definitely appreciate Martin's research into this and getting some = quantifiable stats about it. We can all make assumptions or note 1 or a fe= w=20 personal experiences but the more professional approach gives us more to th= ink=20 about. Such as good questions to ask in future studies and which issues pe= ople=20 weren't so bothered about. Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Kenny Strawn (realkstrawn93) Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2011 01:07:47 -0000 Message-Id: <20110901010747.16000.31565.malone@soybean.canonical.com> Thankfully, Linux is definitely starting to grow in popularity on devices other than desktops (i.e. smartphones, tablets, Chromebooks...) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2011 10:08:51 -0000 Message-Id: <1314871731.17646.YahooMailRC@web24103.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) And on desktops too. A lot of times when it is the default OS on a device = people are still unaware that it is Gnu&Linux. People are still scared of = using=20 non-Windows OSes until they realise that's what they have already been usin= g for=20 some time :) Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Cariaga (mzc) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 02:57:42 -0000 Message-Id: After reading recent posts about the windows 8 preview. It looks like microsoft is copying the Unity side bar and lenses. hmmmm. sign of the times...lol:) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 12:37:37 -0000 Message-Id: <1316003857.30507.YahooMailClassic@web24107.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Lol, so first they copy the KDE "Start button" style and now Unity.=C2=A0 L= ol.=C2=A0 I wonder if they still try to create problems for tech authors th= at use modified screen-shots that happen to have their desktop in the back-= ground! Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Art Cancro (artcancro) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 19:42:19 -0000 Message-Id: <20111104194219.17487.58132.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> Everyone please upvote Bug 886305, which states clearly that Unity is a show-stopping bug that MUST be fixed before Bug 1 can be fixed. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 05:11:38 -0000 Message-Id: <1320469898.73800.YahooMailClassic@web24107.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Gina is, a punk rocker. Yeh, Gee e e ena is. A punk rocker --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Manjul Apratim (manzdagratiano) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 05:41:51 -0000 Message-Id: <20111105054151.4293.50371.malone@soybean.canonical.com> I think instead of channeling their energy into identifying bugs IN unity and fixing them, some regard Unity as a bug itself, which I believe is fairly unreasonable as a critique. IMHO, the heart of the matter lies in the very release model we have, though which is also one of the things that makes Ubuntu great in the first place - Ubuntu always strives to bring the "latest and the greatest" in innovation, and therefore it is understandable that some non-critical bugs for release always end up remaining in the inter-LTS releases. Closed projects like Windows tend to test their new platforms extensively - for three to five years and possibly more, and even after that Vista was heralded as the worst thing they produces, which, IMHO again, was not bad at all compared to XP - even though I would never consider using either of those (or future versions) ever again. Considering such a model would be unethical for something open and free like Ubuntu, and the closest thing along those lines - offering a 'stable' version like Debian does and maintaining testing and unstable versions to be used at one's own peril, would make bringing the latest and the greatest impossible. I think the developers need to be commended for handling effectively such a short release-cycle as ours - start with the unstable Sid and make it become a distro of the masses, and it is through such continued resistance and innovation that we shall eventually indeed squash Bug #1. Aside from that, I have been harshly made to believe that innovation by itself is not enough, because Ubuntu already IS a superior software product, and has been for quite some time - the monopoly that MS holds with computer manufacturers is the other daunting impediment; visit any big vendor's website and you shall find "Windows life without walls. XXX recommends Windows 7." Such a thing already serves as a mind-programming instruments for the average user who is not shown any other "vistas" (ironic much?) out there. I also concede it is impossible for us to "break" this monopoly, but maybe Canonical could push to have such alliances of its own and give MS some competition? - and with prominent vendors that MS itself partners with? (Maybe I am talking from a naive perspective, and I certainly do not understand the complicated undertones, yet, it cannot be an unreasonable question to ask) Dell had a lot of Ubuntu offerings before, and they dropped all of them now - not a signal of confidence in the free software community. Thankfully there are others like System76 which are helping to further confidence in Ubuntu. I see the way Apple made its niche in an MS dominated market - the closed eco-system model that was a brilliant idea except that it began to be used as a lock-down device. If Canonical were to manufacture and sell laptops pre-installed with Ubuntu, which would obviously function without any unexpected hardware-related bugs, and which were sexy and desirable like the Macs were, I am sure the < 1% desktop usage would be higher. Then again, I know this is easier said than done, and maybe we can let these ideas incubate in the backs of our heads. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 07:35:26 -0000 Message-Id: <1320478526.58442.YahooMailClassic@web24106.mail.ird.yahoo.com> The <1% figure is from reports paid for by MicroSquish and may possibly have an inadvertent bias. Machines that are bought with Windows pre-installed and then have any other OS installed could be being counted as Windows machines. This is part of the reason the FSF try to have an annual event where people try to claim a refund for unused Windows licences. Sorry i have not really looked at the rest of the points. =20 Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Dan Kegel (dank) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 12:07:26 -0000 Message-Id: <20111105120726.4496.16688.malone@soybean.canonical.com> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3D2510526&cid=3D37956760 has a nice example use case for corporate deployment: " A competent Windows admin can complete the tasks in about five minutes flat, across thousands of workstations: - Change every users' browser proxy setting, and block them from changing t= he setting. - Hide any control panel icon. - Configure a printer for every workstation on a certain IP subnet, includi= ng the driver. - Force the default desktop wallpaper, home page, and logon message to what= ever corporate branding they came up with this month. - Establish trust across every single server and workstation to a Certifica= te Authority public key. - Disable wireless networking across all computers of a particular model. E= ven new ones that are added after this change is made. - Configure wireless certificates and enterprise WiFi auth, including autom= atic certificate renewal. - Deploy an application to every workstation, including powered off worksta= tions. They're powered on overnight, install the software, and then shut do= wn. Failed installs can be reported. New machines that are deployed later r= eceive the package automatically on first boot. Before you reply to this: I know. I know! I know Linux can do much of that. I know you know how to do it. The problem is that the 'solutions' are all spread across many inconsistent tools that almost always need scripting to use in a large environment. It takes a huge amount of knowledge to bring all of that together into a consistent whole." --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 13:50:46 -0000 Message-Id: <4EB53F36.5080304@hal-pc.org> On 11/05/2011 12:41 AM, Manjul Apratim wrote: > I think instead of channeling their energy into identifying bugs IN > unity and fixing them, some regard Unity as a bug itself, which I > believe is fairly unreasonable as a critique. No one elses critique is unreasonable to them. And I actually agree,=20 that unity is totally unusable for real work right now. It is a giant=20 leap backwards? Sideways? Over a cliff? That said, having unity as a=20 OPTION, is fantastic. But for folkes with powerfull desktops and large=20 screens, it is not as helpfull. It is also why so many people have held=20 on the LTS. The real test will be how many LTS users do NOT upgrade to=20 the next LTS. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 15:22:54 -0000 Message-Id: <1320506574.85870.YahooMailClassic@web24101.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) The LTS is the equivalent of the Stable Branch for Debian except that Stabl= e =3D Old Development Branch so it's usually been around a few years before= it's considered stable. =20 The LTS is developed as new and stable right from pre-planning stages. Updates, patches and all are back-ported to the LTS for 3 years after release (5years for server edition) on a higher priority than they are back-ported to other supported 6monthly releases. So, i tend to get most clients onto the LTS and try to stick with it myself too. Soemtimes i move 1 or 2 machines onto the 6monthlies if there are issues with wireless drivers or something but i try to stay with the LTS if possible. I do quite like Unity and think that it's good to have as the default. Peo= ple that need something a bit beefier tend to be the sort of people that ar= e able to switch DEs anyway. =20 Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Manjul Apratim (manzdagratiano) Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 00:03:16 -0000 Message-Id: <20111106000316.5746.58976.malone@soybean.canonical.com> I don't think that Ubuntu is to be held accountable for making the desktop "unusable" as it stands (I personally do not even share that belief) - if anything, they have indeed added another "option", as houstonbofh asks... the default being gnome-shell, nowhere close to the classic desktop paradigm. It is the gnome devs who decided gnome2 was done for, so what are Ubuntu to do? - they can accept the decision and make gnome-shell the default, or offer an alternative they believe they would like gnome3 to provide. Indeed, I think Unity is closer to gnome2 than is gnome-shell, even though I like and enjoy them both - in Unity, you have the old workspaces, the old classic menus in the form of lenses, the old way to change the wallpaper, the good old Compiz, etc etc etc. Gnome-shell is almost an alien phenomenon, though I like what I saw, and I stuck with it on my Arch and Debian Sid installs... As for gnome2, it simply does not exist anymore, at least actively, and the only possible path is to move on - more and more apps will start with gnome3 libraries, and eventually everyone shall be forced to move elsewhere away from gnome2. I think if you handed the Unity desktop to the average grandma, I think they will have a much easier time than with the old one - pressing the 'Sup' key and just typing in what you want - now that's simplicity! I would humbly like to suggest a change of perspectives to appreciate the positives, as opposed to holding on to ghosts of the past. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Manjul Apratim (manzdagratiano) Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 00:04:45 -0000 Message-Id: <20111106000445.5408.59396.malone@soybean.canonical.com> Also indeed, if one wants Ubuntu to go the gnome-world way, gnome-shell is a mere 'apt-get install' away, so really, with Ubuntu, you get the best of all worlds! - Any DE you want, you have it! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 23:10:22 -0000 Message-Id: On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 06:41, Manjul Apratim <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > I think instead of channeling their energy into identifying bugs IN > unity and fixing them, some regard Unity as a bug itself I know several people who do not understand why Canonical is putting attention to creating a new desktop environment although there are already several around. They think it must be more efficient to contribute to other desktop environments to make them better. Looking at Gnome 3 or KDE, I personally do see reasons doing a separate thing. On the other hand, XFCE or LXDE seem to develop into good directions. - Anyway don't want to start a desktop environment war. Choice is a good thing and of course contributing to other environments means to have less influence on the future directions. > Ubuntu always > strives to bring the "latest and the greatest" in innovation, and > therefore it is understandable that some non-critical bugs for release > always end up remaining in the inter-LTS releases. Before diving more into the Ubuntu community I was not aware of those "quality" differences. I started using Ubuntu on my workplace with 9.04 and it was fully usable and stable, also the 9.10. - 10.10 and 11.04 had IMHO the biggest stability problems since I use Ubuntu. Too few experience yet for 11.10 but from current impression not yet reaching the reliability from 9.04 and 9.10. And of course this does not help to fix Bug 1. > Closed projects like > Windows tend to test their new platforms extensively - for three to five > years and possibly more And basically, when 2003 and XP finally reached a stable state of the art, Microsoft pushed (and now forces) the upgrade... - During the last 2 months I experienced at customers 3 Windows 2008r2 production servers with major stability problems. > Aside from that, I have been harshly made to believe that innovation by > itself is not enough, because Ubuntu already IS a superior software > product I would never turn back to Windows, but: Ubuntu (or other Linux distros) cannot be considered as being superior in any circumstance. Just to give an example: When I go to customers and connect my notebook to a beamer, it happened already several times that I had problems (reaching from X hangup when activating the beamer to screen resolution messed up). Related to that there are issues using my Ubuntu on a laptop with a docking station (and I only use Dell laptops with official Linux support). Windows 7 is doing a superior job here for example. A bad image for Ubuntu when I do get problems while many people are all looking at my desktop. For example, fixing such issues would have been more important than introducing a new desktop environment (as my experience with Unity regarding this is not any better). > and has been for quite some time - the monopoly that MS holds > with computer manufacturers is the other daunting impediment; visit any > big vendor's website and you shall find "Windows life without walls. XXX > recommends Windows 7." Such a thing already serves as a mind-programming > instruments for the average user who is not shown any other "vistas" > (ironic much?) out there. I agree with you, that MS is doing a lot of things to keep their monopoly. But: Word of mouth weighs more in the long run than most of the advertisments. So in the long run, offering the better OS that people are constantly satisfied with, is a good strategy. > Dell had > a lot of Ubuntu offerings before, and they dropped all of them now - not > a signal of confidence in the free software community. Most hardware manufacturers have their most customers on the Windows side. I remember when Dell even came out with the message that Ubuntu is the better OS. Yes, they stopped that and I am pretty sure that MS told them to stop or MS will ask more money for the Windows licenses from them. - They could go even further and try to force companies to drop Linux by offering cheaper licenses to those manufacturers who do only support Windows. - I am very happy that Dell has a lot of Ubuntu certified models (still should be more) and I know that you can get models with Ubuntu preinstalled even if that is not published on their site. A reason why I do recommend Dell to everybody who is asking me for a hardware recommendation. > Thankfully there > are others like System76 which are helping to further confidence in > Ubuntu. Unfortunately Sytem76 is not shipping to Austria. :-( > I see the way Apple made its niche in an MS dominated market - the > closed eco-system model that was a brilliant idea except that it began > to be used as a lock-down device. Today I talked to the only person I know who switched from Ubuntu to Apple. Reason: He just likes the Apple design a lot. For me design is secondary. My primary priority is a fast, reliable OS that can be adjusted to my needs. > If Canonical were to manufacture and > sell laptops pre-installed with Ubuntu, which would obviously function > without any unexpected hardware-related bugs, and which were sexy and > desirable like the Macs were I think, this can be an option: To have own certified hardware. I personally appreciate the choice, to use Ubuntu on different hardware very much. I am a power user and hence need a laptop with a good quality keyboard etc. Other occassional users (using mostly the mouse to read news online) could be already very satisfied with a cheaper hardware - so with your own hardware design (and quality) you could never fit everybodies needs. But it is one of the big pros for using Linux that it can be adjusted for many different use cases - including to run on many different hardware platforms (from servers and desktops over laptops to routers). On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 13:07, Dan Kegel wrote: > " A competent Windows admin can complete the tasks in about five minutes > flat, across thousands of workstations: [...] Most of the operations you mention are probably easy to do for a competent Windows admin - but I doubt they are for the _average_ Windows admin. My experience is that Linux admins in general have a better know-how level (even on Windows) than most of the Windows admins out there (YMMV). Further most of the operations you mentioned are actions to lock down the user. So far I never faced a locked-down Windows PC that I couldn't trick in one or the other way. Those admins who try hard to lock down the user as much as they can, I always recommend to just let go from that idea. I saw people completely being locked down and anyway finding a way to watch movies during working hours. ;-) > I know you know how to do it. The problem is that the 'solutions' > are all spread across many inconsistent tools that almost always need > scripting to use in a large environment. It takes a huge amount of > knowledge to bring all of that together into a consistent whole." And there are other issues that seem to be even impossible to solve. I would like to see resolved owner and group names for example for folders mounted remotely from other networks... On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 16:22, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > I do quite like Unity and think that it's good to have as the default. I do appreciate the idea to do something new - even the idea to have one OS that fits all use cases from laptops over netbooks to tablets and phones. But the cost shouldn't be a big decrease in efficiency on one of those architectures. Of course that is a big challenge. If Canonical would have held back Unity because not finished enough then the question would have been: Switch to Gnome 3 or what? - Switching to something completely different while knowing there will again be big change sooner or later? - No. BTW: Probably we shouldn't discuss this here, but on the other hand, I do not really know where I should put my considerations about strategy or where the strategy of Canonical or - more important - the strategy of the whole Ubuntu community - is discussed. I am not an official (LoCo-)Team member. Any hints? Best regards, Martin. --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: justfred (frederic-durodie) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 18:46:26 -0000 Message-Id: <20111107184626.2490.55196.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Hi, In my opinion (and possibly it has been mentioned before but I did not have the courage to read through all the posts) the main problem is the office suite one. I've switched to Ubuntu 3-4 years ago but and I don't think I will ever come back to Windows. However I still do need a virtual machine running Windows because when in a world dominated by the MS Office Suite documents you want to contribute efficiently OpenOffice/LibreOffice simply aren't up to the task (I'll be happy to stand corrected though). Otherwise, yes, Linux and more specifically Ubuntu is a great OS : at home we switched to Ubuntu a few years ago and neither my son or daughter or wife would like to switch back to Windows. Again, however, as my son started his engineering studies and some of the tasks requires the use of Autodesk Inventor, we had to make his laptop dual boot into Windows 7. I myself, as an engineer, cannot e.g. install a CATIA v5 viewer from Dassault Systems in Linux (again I need to use the virtual machine). So, IMHO, it is not the quality of the OS that is holding back the penetration of the Linux OS in the market, but rather the lack of an office suite that is compatible with, like it or not, the dominating standard as well as other key software that is Windows only (AutoCAD, CST MicroWave Studio, CATIA v5, ...) or just works better on Windows (e.g. ANSYS). I was told that as an outcome of the big look-and-feel law suites between MS and Apple the outcome was that MS was forced to produce an up to date MS office suite for Macs and that is probably Macs are still around (IMHO). I guess that Apple returned the favor by providing an iTunes that works on Windows (and their latest generation of iPods need iTunes to load music). my 2 cents ... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Pako (elektrobank01) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 22:35:45 -0000 Message-Id: <20111107223545.17386.69075.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> Technical - Ubuntu should drop xorg in favor of Wayland, 50% of bugs will = be fixed immediately. Windows uses 90% of GPU to draw the GUI, that's why i= s so snappy. Philosophical - Ubuntu should drop the stupid services like "Brainstorming"= I like the fact that GNOME developers don't give a sh*t about users for th= eir wishes and ideas, that's why GNOME 3 is so good. In this way of free th= inking and ideas, you get crap, because carpenter knows programing and have= wishes, waiter knows design and have wishes, doctor likes design, car race= r knows design.... That's why you need 3 excellent graphic designers and th= ree software engineers only, users and community for testing and patches on= ly, no ideas no visions. I like the way Mark doing this with such a passion= but has to resolve this things. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Manjul Apratim (manzdagratiano) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 22:49:04 -0000 Message-Id: On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 6:10 PM, Martin Wildam <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > > Before diving more into the Ubuntu community I was not aware of those > "quality" differences. I started using Ubuntu on my workplace with > 9.04 and it was fully usable and stable, also the 9.10. - 10.10 and > 11.04 had IMHO the biggest stability problems since I use Ubuntu. Too > few experience yet for 11.10 but from current impression not yet > reaching the reliability from 9.04 and 9.10. And of course this does > not help to fix Bug 1. > I agree with you there... I had first used Ubuntu with 9.04, and it was rock solid stable for me. I had trouble with Karmic and Lucid upgrades, and I had to do fresh installs, but then they did become rock solid stable. Maverick I think was the most solid release I saw, but Natty and Oneiric - not so much; for instance, in Oneiric, nautilus still freezes for me on my VAIO - everything works well now on the other Vostro V13, ever since the nautilus-open-terminal bug was fixed. I would never turn back to Windows, but: Ubuntu (or other Linux > distros) cannot be considered as being superior in any circumstance. > Just to give an example: When I go to customers and connect my > notebook to a beamer, it happened already several times that I had > problems (reaching from X hangup when activating the beamer to screen > resolution messed up). Related to that there are issues using my > Ubuntu on a laptop with a docking station (and I only use Dell laptops > with official Linux support). Windows 7 is doing a superior job here > for example. A bad image for Ubuntu when I do get problems while many > people are all looking at my desktop. For example, fixing such issues > would have been more important than introducing a new desktop > environment (as my experience with Unity regarding this is not any > better). > I am surprised you had projector blues - I regularly connect from Ubuntu/Arch Linux to projectors, and they work with plug and play in seconds! - ever since Karmic actually (never really had to do a dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg). The Vaio has an nvidia card, and to connect it to a projector, or even to a TV using an HDMI cable, all I need to do is to go to Display Settings and select Twinview, and its on! As for the Vostro, which has an Intel chip, the last time I tried it - a week ago - I just plugged the projector in and it was all good to go! All I did was select whether to mirror screens or have a separate screen for starting a slideshow presentation. And guess who had trouble connecting that day - Mac users! - for the lack of an adapter for the projector, which I feel is unnecessary to require in the first place. > They could go even further and try to force companies to > drop Linux by offering cheaper licenses to those manufacturers who do > only support Windows. - I am very happy that Dell has a lot of Ubuntu > certified models (still should be more) and I know that you can get > models with Ubuntu preinstalled even if that is not published on their > site. A reason why I do recommend Dell to everybody who is asking me > for a hardware recommendation. > My Vostro V13 came with Ubuntu 9.04. I had heard that you can still order laptops with Ubuntu pre-installed, but the last time I tried to order a laptop from them on the phone, I was told they were unable to get me one with Ubuntu. I ended up not getting one (it was to replace the Vostro whose LCD I had stepped on and broken, and which they wanted to charge almost the cost of the laptop for fixing it for me even though it was still under warranty. Angered by this fact, I decided to fix it myself, and it turned out to be MUCH easier than I had thought - unscrew, put, screw, done!). The problem is still, I insist, MS monopoly, and vendor lock-in for drivers, and software lock-in for proprietary stuff - my Fiancee has to use Windows because she needs a certain software called "Tooth Atlas" - runs on Windows and Mac, and not so great with Wine. Well, maybe that will change someday when people realize GNU/Linux is a tour-de-force - after all, it indeed IS superior! I myself am happy to have expurgated all traces of Windows from my own laptops! I think the self-certified hardware phenomenon would be awesome if implemented; with Macs, you get their machines, but you can still buy OSX and install it on other machines (whether it works will be a different issue). With Ubuntu, you would then be able to get their machines with everything working, and be able to install it on any other machine you wish with mostly no issues still, because GNU/Linux is that much more awesome!!! Manjul --=20 Manjul Apratim --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 23:08:59 -0000 Message-Id: On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 19:46, justfred wrote: > In my opinion (and possibly it has been mentioned before but I did not > have the courage to read through all the posts) the main problem is the > office suite one. I would say (and you mention also other examples like AutoDESK Inventor), it is branch specific and other widely adopted packages (like MS Office) that often create real headache. I know the MS Office issue very well. While it worked already acceptable for .doc etc formats, with .docx etc it got worse again. I myself switched to Open Office long before I switched from Windows to Ubuntu, just because it was the more reliable product (regarding crashes and particular very annoying bugs). In cases where I write the documentation, I solely use LibreOffice now on my Ubuntu machine. But all my collegues are using MS Office (I am the only Ubuntu user among about 130 people) and I get all type of crazy stuff - including MS OneNote files or Outlook e-mail template files (I am using Thunderbird). They are just too used to it and ignore the different. And yes, it is one reason that holds Ubuntu back from gaining more market share. > So, IMHO, it is not the quality of the OS that is holding back the > penetration of the Linux OS in the market, but rather the lack of an > office suite that is compatible with, Summed up: There is a lack of interoperability. On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 23:35, Pako <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Technical =C2=A0- Ubuntu should drop xorg in favor of Wayland, > 50% of bugs will be fixed immediately. I imagine, you are right, but my fear is that Wayland also has a lot of teething troubles - as Unity has. It is not very helpful, fixing 50 bugs, but introducing 60 new... ;-] > Windows uses 90% of GPU to draw the GUI, that's why is so snappy. > Philosophical - Ubuntu should drop the stupid services like "Brainstormin= g" > I like the fact that GNOME developers don't give a sh*t about users > for their wishes and ideas It is better to invest into convincing people instead of building walls to hold them back and avoid them to speak to others. I find the community very important. Probably, Canonical should improve their way of communicating the reasons for their decisions. I for myself - after digging a little - understood, why the are creating Unity. Nevertheless it is still not stable enough for my needs and the community and Canonical should know and act on such Community-feedback. Best regards, Martin. --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Pako (elektrobank01) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 23:41:29 -0000 Message-Id: <20111107234129.6307.435.malone@gac.canonical.com> @ Martin Wildam It is better to invest into convincing people instead of building walls to hold them back and avoid them to speak to others........... Thats what I'm saying, 1529 thoughts and needs is hard to satisfied, you are all free to argue here, but someone has to pay the bill. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 00:42:51 -0000 Message-Id: <1320712971.78979.YahooMailClassic@web24106.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) MS doesn't aim for interoperability. Even it's "Open" formats are designed= to push people into buying their latest products. Note that a DocX writte= n in MS Office 2010 often doesn't display properly in MS Office 2007. =20 At work i have set-up LibreOffice to be the package that opens by default when opening OpenDocument Formats but not when opening Doc, DocX and the rest of the MS formats. When people are able to keep using MS Office but find that documents with i= mages behave better in LO they are gradually using LO more. Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: turbolad (turbolad995) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 14:32:13 -0000 Message-Id: <20111108143213.8262.21886.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> Here's why Microsoft has the perfect monopoly with Windows and home users = =E2=80=93 this will sound very cruel but it is true: Windows assumes the ho= me user is dumb and makes everything easy for home users. Here's a good ex= ample: in Windows, you have a fully stealthing firewall enabled by default, but in= Ubuntu you have to manually install a firewall AND manually edit a file (b= efore.rules ) so that the firewall in Ubuntu passes the "Shields Up" test: https://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2 Things like parental controls are absent in Ubuntu and simple things are no= t included in the default install, such as "gnome-games". Here's another frustrating issue: why doesn't Ubuntu alert the user that th= e "restricted extras" can be installed to use things like Flash Player, pla= y mp3 files etc.? I know Ubuntu can't legally include the restricted extra= s in the default installation, but why not TELL the user that they can inst= all the restricted extras? Another thing that home users are familiar with and Ubuntu doesn't seem to care about: the user interface. Ever since Windows 95 =E2=80=93 i.e. fr= om about the time when people started using computers at home =E2=80=93 Windows users have the familiarity of the single task bar at the bottom of the screen and it's been constant ever since. In Ubuntu, you have the cumbersome "Unity" interface which frustrates users =E2=80=93 it really doe= s! If Ubuntu were to see how much easier "Lubuntu" is for newcomers from Windows, instead of forcing users to learn the Unity interface, then Ubuntu would become MUCH more successful. I'm sorry if this message has sounded too critical, but it needs to be said and I would love to see more and more people use Ubuntu instead of Windows, but that won't happen until Ubuntu follows Microsoft's example of making everything very easy and always using the single "task bar" at the bottom of the screen like "Lubuntu" does. Finally =E2=80=93 this IS a killer for Ubuntu... Users must upgrade the entire Ubuntu install just to: run newer programs, u= se newer hardware and still have their installed version of Ubuntu supporte= d? Upgrading Ubuntu can break things, such as power management, drivers fo= r wireless or other hardware devices. I have strongly suggested in the "Ub= untu Brainstorm" that there should be a "live" testing mode before upgradin= g, to see if the newer version of Ubuntu will work before the user upgrades= Ubuntu AND I have urged the Ubuntu developers to make the installation "cl= eanly" install without affecting the /home directories. This is where Microsoft wins again! Look at Windows XP for example. It was released in 2001 and it is *still* supported by Microsoft until April 2014: http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?LN=3Den-gb&C2=3D1173 Users don't have to upgrade Windows just to use a newer versions of most programs, except for some newer games, which require Windows Vista or Windows 7. I really wish I could print this whole comment and discuss it with the Ubuntu team and Mark Shuttleworth. It would be BRILLIANT if more and more people used Ubuntu instead of Windows, but that won't happen until these problems are addressed. To finish this comment, I must say the security in Ubuntu is excellent and more user-friendly than Windows i.e. in Ubuntu, you just need the right password, from the user who has sufficient privileges. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Dave Stroud (bigdavesr) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 15:09:40 -0000 Message-Id: I dont know what windows os your are referring to., Or what ubuntu you are using.Every windows os I used I have had to set up my own firewall and am stuck with the way windows is set up, even if I dont like it.I dont like unity either, but ubuntu gives me a choice to use some thing else . I dont have to set up my firewall on ubuntu either. It gives me the option to add or remove rules.I can pretty much set up my desktop to suite me. Why would anyone want to pay $ 150.00 or more for a system that is not theirs , when you can own one for nothing. Linux will win hands down. On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 8:32 AM, turbolad <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Here's why Microsoft has the perfect monopoly with Windows and home users > =E2=80=93 this will sound very cruel but it is true: Windows assumes the = home user > is dumb and makes everything easy for home users. Here's a good example: > in Windows, you have a fully stealthing firewall enabled by default, but > in Ubuntu you have to manually install a firewall AND manually edit a file > (before.rules ) so that the firewall in Ubuntu passes the "Shields Up" te= st: > https://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2 > > Things like parental controls are absent in Ubuntu and simple things are > not included in the default install, such as "gnome-games". > Here's another frustrating issue: why doesn't Ubuntu alert the user that > the "restricted extras" can be installed to use things like Flash Player, > play mp3 files etc.? I know Ubuntu can't legally include the restricted > extras in the default installation, but why not TELL the user that they c= an > install the restricted extras? > > Another thing that home users are familiar with and Ubuntu doesn't seem > to care about: the user interface. Ever since Windows 95 =E2=80=93 i.e. = from > about the time when people started using computers at home =E2=80=93 Wind= ows > users have the familiarity of the single task bar at the bottom of the > screen and it's been constant ever since. In Ubuntu, you have the > cumbersome "Unity" interface which frustrates users =E2=80=93 it really d= oes! > If Ubuntu were to see how much easier "Lubuntu" is for newcomers from > Windows, instead of forcing users to learn the Unity interface, then > Ubuntu would become MUCH more successful. > > I'm sorry if this message has sounded too critical, but it needs to be > said and I would love to see more and more people use Ubuntu instead of > Windows, but that won't happen until Ubuntu follows Microsoft's example > of making everything very easy and always using the single "task bar" at > the bottom of the screen like "Lubuntu" does. > > Finally =E2=80=93 this IS a killer for Ubuntu... > Users must upgrade the entire Ubuntu install just to: run newer programs, > use newer hardware and still have their installed version of Ubuntu > supported? Upgrading Ubuntu can break things, such as power management, > drivers for wireless or other hardware devices. I have strongly suggested > in the "Ubuntu Brainstorm" that there should be a "live" testing mode > before upgrading, to see if the newer version of Ubuntu will work before > the user upgrades Ubuntu AND I have urged the Ubuntu developers to make t= he > installation "cleanly" install without affecting the /home directories. > > This is where Microsoft wins again! Look at Windows XP for example. It > was released in 2001 and it is *still* supported by Microsoft until > April 2014: http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?LN=3Den-gb&C2=3D1173 > > Users don't have to upgrade Windows just to use a newer versions of most > programs, except for some newer games, which require Windows Vista or > Windows 7. > > I really wish I could print this whole comment and discuss it with the > Ubuntu team and Mark Shuttleworth. It would be BRILLIANT if more and > more people used Ubuntu instead of Windows, but that won't happen until > these problems are addressed. To finish this comment, I must say the > security in Ubuntu is excellent and more user-friendly than Windows i.e. > in Ubuntu, you just need the right password, from the user who has > sufficient privileges. > > -- > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to Jaunty. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share > > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions > --=20 @Dave Stroud@ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Manjul Apratim (manzdagratiano) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 15:48:55 -0000 Message-Id: On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 9:32 AM, turbolad <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > > Here's another frustrating issue: why doesn't Ubuntu alert the user that > the "restricted extras" can be installed to use things like Flash Player, > play mp3 files etc.? I know Ubuntu can't legally include the restricted > extras in the default installation, but why not TELL the user that they c= an > install the restricted extras? > That was a thing of the past... the new installer, starting with Maverick I believe, indeed DOES tell the user that they should install restricted extras if they wish to be able to play mp3 files and the like. > > Another thing that home users are familiar with and Ubuntu doesn't seem > to care about: the user interface. Ever since Windows 95 =E2=80=93 i.e. = from > about the time when people started using computers at home =E2=80=93 Wind= ows > users have the familiarity of the single task bar at the bottom of the > screen and it's been constant ever since. In Ubuntu, you have the > cumbersome "Unity" interface which frustrates users =E2=80=93 it really d= oes! > If Ubuntu were to see how much easier "Lubuntu" is for newcomers from > Windows, instead of forcing users to learn the Unity interface, then > Ubuntu would become MUCH more successful. > People are used to the "taskbar" because that is what they had been given from the start, and had known nothing else. Unity, as well as Gnome-shell, are revolutionary interfaces designed to explore an entirely new paradigm that has not been explored before - the point of view is that things such as menus etc are irrelevant now - one can just search for what they want with a single click and typing, rather than wading through endless lists. It is most certainly because users are used to the old desktop model that they do not like the new one - for someone who picks up a computer with the new model, I am pretty sure they would think the old menus + taskbar style was a dinosaur from the past; it pretty much is. Then again, if you absolutely still hate it, what is good about GNU/Linux is the plethora of choice - install Openbox + tint2 (my other desktop of choice), or XFCE, or LXDE... All the other *buntus are basically spinoffs with the defaults changed, which can be attained from any one of the distros. > Finally =E2=80=93 this IS a killer for Ubuntu... > Users must upgrade the entire Ubuntu install just to: run newer programs, > use newer hardware and still have their installed version of Ubuntu > supported? Upgrading Ubuntu can break things, such as power management, > drivers for wireless or other hardware devices. I have strongly suggested > in the "Ubuntu Brainstorm" that there should be a "live" testing mode > before upgrading, to see if the newer version of Ubuntu will work before > the user upgrades Ubuntu AND I have urged the Ubuntu developers to make t= he > installation "cleanly" install without affecting the /home directories. > This is where Microsoft wins again! Look at Windows XP for example. It > was released in 2001 and it is *still* supported by Microsoft until > April 2014: http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?LN=3Den-gb&C2=3D1173 > > Users don't have to upgrade Windows just to use a newer versions of most > programs, except for some newer games, which require Windows Vista or > Windows 7. > MAC OSX also does system upgrades in the same manner as Ubuntu - incremental ones that you purchase. Upgrading an XP install to Vista is no different - there are dangers of breaking things all the time, and many recommend a clean install is better. The Ubuntu upgrade is designed to handle everything smoothly, and ever since Maverick, I have never had any issues with upgrades - I upgraded from Lucid -> Maverick, Maverick -> Natty, and Natty -> Oneiric, and still running strong! And even with XP, it is becoming more and more cumbersome to install stuff that works on Windows 7, and that's not just because people are eventually going to stop making installers for it - so yes, even though MS supports XP till 2014, it was not because they planned to - XP support was supposed to end in 2009 or something, but because people hated Vista so much with a passion (which I think was unjustified too - IMHO, Vista, minus the Aero interface, was indeed a superior product compared to XP... bloated by an order of magnitude, but superior nonetheless, although still nowhere as awesome as GNU/Linux) they had no choice but to continue support, else people might have dumped MS altogether. Also, I think what you really wish to have is a "rolling release" model, where you perform occasional updates but the system as a whole never needs to be upgraded.... Such a thing exists in the GNU/Linux world, just not with Ubuntu's model - there's Arch Linux, which is pretty rock-solid stable for everyday use, and Debian Testing/Sid are quasi-rolling release. There are many others... Windows XP/Vista/7 - none of them are rolling... When Win8 comes out, 7 will be obsolete, since it has a completely new interface. I believe we are almost there to closing this bug... All we need is a way to give the monopoly some competition, and to bring Ubuntu more so to the masses than it already has! Manjul --=20 Manjul Apratim --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 22:30:44 -0000 Message-Id: <1320791444.68170.YahooMailClassic@web24105.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Errr, most of the reason Xp is still supported is due to the 'success' of Longhorn and Vista.=C2=A0 Apparently Win8 is set to be just as good.=C2= =A0 Win7 seems to have been a blip but people have learned to be wary of new offerings from MS.=C2=A0 Why upgrade Ubuntu without first giving it a trial run??=C2=A0 LiveCd/Usb, spare partition or Virtual Machine are all so easy in almost any Gnu&Linux.=C2=A0 None of those options are easy in Windows.=C2=A0 Also I've not seen people install Windows to a usb-stick with any amount of success.=C2=A0 Ubuntu also lacks the other features of Windows such as paranoia and vulnerabilities.=C2=A0 A reluctance to deal with a malware problem or even admit to it even after thousands or millions of users have been affected.=C2=A0 Ubuntu doesn't slow down so badly and doesn't need hefty hardware upgrades just to keep running. Hmmm, Unity interface woes or 2 taskbars giving more info (such as the date= ) and a workspace switcher.=C2=A0 Either way i'm happier than when i am for= ced into using Windows. Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 01:30:34 -0000 Message-Id: Actually it's much easier than we thought: the root cause of all this mess is a simple fact that traditional model of personal computing is proprietary to hell and back - you've got proprietary hardware running proprietary code processing proprietary data. Proprietary solutions are designed to impose vendor lock-in on their users and that's why we're completely screwed until we somehow manage to establish free and open alternative as a widely enough recognised standard or until we completely reverse engineer at least the most commonly used ones in order to provide solid interoperability. Notice that open standards tend to dominate areas which M$ and the likes never touched or where they were too late to the party, because they actually empower their users instead of tying them down in exchange for questionable short-term "benefits"; it's just hard to break the vicious circles that are already there and I have to insist that being unable to get any machine you like without mandatory initial dose of proprietary infection certainly doesn't help. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 02:33:23 -0000 Message-Id: Oh and one more thing: some of you guys suggest that we need to become more like our proprietary competition in order to become more widespread - you do realize that would make us headed exactly for the same shit that made us refuse proprietary crap in the first place, right? Let's learn from their mistakes and embrace any good ideas they might come up with, but copying Adobe, Apple, M$ and the likes to the letter is gonna get us all screwed and not just because of patents. Remember that victory at all cost can cost us more than we can afford=E2=80= =A6 and why don't we drop that obsession with victory altogether while we're at it? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 15:13:11 -0000 Message-Id: On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 23:49, Manjul Apratim <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 6:10 PM, Martin Wildam <1@bugs.launchpad.net> >> Related to that there are issues using my >> Ubuntu on a laptop with a docking station (and I only use Dell laptops >> with official Linux support). Windows 7 is doing a superior job here >> for example. > I am surprised you had projector blues - I regularly connect from > Ubuntu/Arch Linux to projectors, and they work with plug and play in > seconds! Strange - but maybe it has to do with the fact, that I do not use my laptop monitor as a second monitor (most people I know do that) - I leave my laptop closed when using with the docking station and indeed that was and is (still) causing troubles. Oh BTW: Sometimes my Ubuntu 10.04 laptop is very slow to respond when return back and find the laptop screen locked. I discovered yesterday only when that occurs: When the laptop runs on battery and the screen locks (asking for password on mouse-move). At least that happens the first time it locks after reboot while on battery the whole time and without having been attached to docking station. I then need to close the laptop-lid and reopen - then everything gets fast in a sudden. I know that are stories to be discussed in the appropriate bug reports - but those are just examples of problems that are still there and not really acceptable for a desktop OS that is meant to be superior to everything else. If you imagine "normal" business users trying out Ubuntu - they will not take much time to investigate the problem - they will get back to their Windows and telling that Ubuntu/Linux is buggy. And there will be people immediately responding with the old myth that it is understandable as Linux is developed just by hobby developers. > My Vostro V13 came with Ubuntu 9.04. I had heard that you can still order > laptops with Ubuntu pre-installed, but the last time I tried to order a > laptop from them on the phone, I was told they were unable to get me one > with Ubuntu. Yes, I had the same experience - but I have some direct contact emails from Dell employees and if I insist I get everything I want. Just a wild guess: Could it be possible that Microsoft put pressure on them and is doing test calls sometimes, so everybody on the Dell-phone-line is instructed to sell only Windows preinstalled? > The problem is still, I insist, MS monopoly, and vendor lock-in for > drivers, and software lock-in for proprietary stuff Of course that is a big problem - but not the only one. If Ubuntu is superior enough - I mean, if the gap of stability, features, usability and coolness is large enough, more and more people will migrate. Currently I see a very big issue in IT departments not thinking long-term and urge their software vendors to offer platform independent solutions. For long-term return of investment (ROI) platform independent solutions are the best option but in many cases that priority is not high enough when heading for new software projects. > I think the self-certified hardware phenomenon would be awesome if > implemented It would be nice to have a cool Ubuntu laptop with a cool design - but of course it must be cooler than Mac to have more people buying it. And it should be a good layout and quality keyboard integrated (that's a thing, where so many laptop-vendors suck). On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 01:42, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > MS doesn't aim for interoperability. Even it's "Open" formats are design= ed to push people into > buying their latest products. Note that a DocX written in MS Office 2010= often doesn't display > properly in MS Office 2007. Indeed! And I often wonder how many IT people are accepting that. I mean, that completely sucks. And guess what: I see people trashing their Word-documents and even more crazy stuff like visio files into their long-term-audit-proven archives! What the hack are they expecting to get in 10 years out of it? It is not only Microsoft - the companies are really accepting such crazy situations. It often seems to me that nobody is ever seeing any chance to put Microsoft under pressure to do a better job - so why should Microsoft care? And the cloud is not _the_ topic in IT only because of flexibility of available resources - no, companies are tired of frickling around with their unstable IT landscapes so they are happy about everything they do not need to administrate themselves any more. > At work i have set-up LibreOffice to be the package that opens by > default when opening OpenDocument Formats but not when opening Doc, DocX > and the rest of the MS formats. When I was still working with Windows I was doing it similar. For the last about 6 years I was writing every documentation created by me with OO and only had one second guy who was co-authoring the documents and he also was ok with using OO (but hated it the same way as MSO :-| ). This year things are different - all others are using MSO - even intensively use MS OneNote. Co-authoring documents on my Ubuntu-machine is quite impossible. I need to use a virtualbox machine to edit their shitty Word documents. I do know the MSO products also quite from their beginning and used them very intensively. I really can tell you that the ribbon UI and several other changes in MSO 2007 and 2010 are full crap for one who knows how to write documentation (intensive use of styles for example). Again M$ went for the default dummy user when "improving" their GUI. I try to get everybody on the OO/LO ship, but very hard work and only works where single persons or very small teams are co-authoring documents. I personally try to write documentation with OO/LO and send out only PDFs - when somebody asks for the original editable document I first try to send the odt pointing to OO/LO download page. However, in a larger company there are company standards (i.e. driven by ISO 9001 standardization strategies etc) given, everybody must follow - which for many is .doc or .docx. > When people are able to keep using MS Office but find that documents with= images behave > better in LO they are gradually using LO more. Individuals usually have a free choice - employees in larger companies do not. There you have to convince those who are taking the decisions and those are often the people who are not using their PC so intensive because they have employees for doing that... On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 15:32, turbolad <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Here's why Microsoft has the perfect monopoly with Windows and home users= =E2=80=93 this will sound > very cruel but it is true: Windows assumes the home user is dumb and make= s everything > easy for home users. From 9 to 5 the standard home user often is an employee in some office with not more experience. The only difference: In the office there is an IT department that manages the user's PC. > Here's a good example: > in Windows, you have a fully stealthing firewall enabled by default, > but in Ubuntu you have to manually install a firewall AND manually > edit a file (before.rules ) One Moooment: In Windows by default there are plenty of ports open - a default Ubuntu desktop installation does not run services on public ports ASFAIK. So you don't need a firewall if there is nothing running that responds to the request. If you are installing software that might open ports of course it is a good idea to install a firewall. But i.e. gufw is dummy-simple I would say. > Things like parental controls are absent in Ubuntu and simple things are = not included > in the default install, such as "gnome-games". Honestly I don't want to have any game installed by default. And regarding parental control: You have that on your router or you can forget about it. Local solution is useless. Apart from that: For 50 euros you get a mobile internet stick here in Austria - paired with any Linux live CD and your parental control (wherever it was) is overruled. Honestly: You are better off educating your children accordingly (that is anyway necessary for a lot of other realms). > Here's another frustrating issue: why doesn't Ubuntu alert the user that = the "restricted extras" > can be installed to use things like Flash Player, play mp3 files etc.? It does (since 10.10 if I remember correctly)! > Another thing that home users are familiar with and Ubuntu doesn't seem > to care about: the user interface. Ever since Windows 95 =E2=80=93 i.e. f= rom > about the time when people started using computers at home =E2=80=93 Wind= ows > users have the familiarity of the single task bar at the bottom of the > screen and it's been constant ever since. Even in Windows XP it was possible to drag the taskbar to the left side and have it vertical. And I know people who had it always that way. In Windows 7 that is even better supported. I know people who use their Windows 7 that way. With the increasing number of wide-screen displays you want to save vertical space and so having the taskbar on the left side is better. That said, of course unity should be configurable in the way that I can drag it to the bottom. BTW: AWN, Cairo Dock and others offer vertical and horizontal alignment (as you like it) since years either. In general there should be both options - fullstop. > I would love to see more and more people use Ubuntu instead of > Windows, but that won't happen until Ubuntu follows Microsoft's example > of making everything very easy and always using the single "task bar" at > the bottom of the screen like "Lubuntu" does. > Finally =E2=80=93 this IS a killer for Ubuntu... I see more and more people switching from Windows to Mac. There are a lot more serious differences, that just the position of the taskbar. You are familiar with this after a week. On my work laptop I still use 10.04 (taskbar on the bottom as I am used to since at least 15 years) and at home I already use 11.10 with unity. I don't have a problem using this or that either. > Users must upgrade the entire Ubuntu install just to: run newer programs,= use newer hardware > and still have their installed version of Ubuntu supported? Upgrading Ubu= ntu can break things, > such as power management, drivers for wireless or other hardware devices. This is a point that I have never thought about. You are right in this and I wonder why I never considered this to be an issue. Maybe because I never do manipulate my hardware other than inserting a new HD. I don't build my hardware myself. I buy something where all components work well together and I leave it that way. I neither add memory. And if I install a new PC I usually use an up-to-date OS version. With Ubuntu being supported for 5 years even on the desktop now, I find this issue to get either less important - however, in general you are right, this is easier to handle on Windows. > This is where Microsoft wins again! Of course there are still several issues where Microsoft wins. Not so long ago there was a very, very long discussion on LinkedIn about Linux on the desktop and why it's not used. Because interested I tried to summarize and consolidate the reasons. Here are the results if you are interested: http://it-tactics.blogspot.com/2011/07/why-companies-do-not-use-linux-on.ht= ml > Users don't have to upgrade Windows just to use a newer versions of most > programs, except for some newer games, which require Windows Vista or > Windows 7. Not sure, but think, that .deb packages could also be quite version independent, am I right? I have some older .deb files that still work. > I really wish I could print this whole comment and discuss it with the > Ubuntu team and Mark Shuttleworth. Yes, would also like to discuss that with Mark Shuttleworth. From Linus I already read excerpt of an interview that he doesn't care how many people are using Linux. I see it different because I want to use Linux but with the constraints given by the world I am connected to does not allow a flawless use of Linux/Ubuntu. On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 16:09, Dave Stroud wrote: > I dont know what windows os your are referring to., Or what ubuntu you are > using.Every windows os I used I have had to set up my own firewall and am > stuck with the way windows is set up, even if I dont like it. With Windows 7 or Windows 2008 Server the Windows firewall gets more features but also gets much more complicated. > I dont like > unity either, but ubuntu gives me a choice to use some thing else . I dont > have to set up my firewall on ubuntu either. It gives me the option to add > or remove rules.I can pretty much set up my desktop to suite me. Why would > anyone want to pay $ 150.00 or more for a system that is not theirs , when > you can own one for nothing. Linux will win hands down. You are right for the power user and the one who wants to optimize his PC experience and efficiency. The "normal" user isn't either interested to change any setting - it just has to work. This is the same as some people do handicraft work on their cars and others do not - or some design and sometimes even build their house themselves and other buy a "ready-made-standard-house". There are power Windows users (when I was still using Windows I was one of those), who can do a lot of tweaks to optimize their Windows experience. And I remember, it was a very lot of work to redo everything, when I had to reinstall Windows on a new machine. Ubuntu is very superior here. 95 % of my tweaks follow me with copying my profile folder. On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 16:48, Manjul Apratim <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > People are used to the "taskbar" because that is what they had been given > from the start, and had known nothing else. Unity, as well as Gnome-shell, > are revolutionary interfaces designed to explore an entirely new paradigm > that has not been explored before - the point of view is that things such > as menus etc are irrelevant now - one can just search for what they want > with a single click and typing, rather than wading through endless lists. I think, the user should have both options as there are use cases for both ways to work. > MAC OSX also does system upgrades in the same manner as Ubuntu - > incremental ones that you purchase. Upgrading an XP install to Vista is no > different - there are dangers of breaking things all the time, and many > recommend a clean install is better. The Ubuntu upgrade is designed to > handle everything smoothly, and ever since Maverick, I have never had any > issues with upgrades - I upgraded from Lucid -> Maverick, Maverick -> > Natty, and Natty -> Oneiric, and still running strong! Until upgrading to 10.10 I had problems several times (even in more critical situations on servers) - never tried it again since then - maybe I should. :-) - But you are right that Windows is not better in this discipline. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 03:33, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Oh and one more thing: some of you guys suggest that we need to become > more like our proprietary competition in order to become more > widespread - you do realize that would make us headed exactly for the > same shit that made us refuse proprietary crap in the first place, > right? Let's learn from their mistakes and embrace any good ideas they > might come up with Fully agree - never ever behave like those we lost confidence and trust in! --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 00:02:27 -0000 Message-Id: > never ever behave like those we lost confidence and trust in! Absolutely, because if we're going to do this, and I mean any time in the future, let's just turn tail and pack up right now. Because making free copycats of proprietary crap in the world, where you can simply literally copy (in copyright parlance "steal") the original for free any time you want would in my humble opinion be a complete waste of time. Libre software and open standards are all about preferring freedom of choice to horribly broken one size fits all proprietary solutions and they're meant to be free as in freedom, but not necessarily free as in free beer. Accepting broken proprietary stuff in a free system and doing everything to accommodate it's creators is no different from going back to where you came from. Such user should simply revert to whatever proprietary platform he used until now and save everyone (including himself) lots of trouble. > From Linus I already read excerpt of an interview that he doesn't care ho= w many people are using Linux. Linus is my personal Jesus Christ and he's got that right. Like libre software? Great! You don't? Who cares? I believe that most users of libre software share a common characteristic of not being sheeple by nature and that people using libre software are generally the ones willing to get their hands dirty whenever there's a problem to be solved rather than just sitting around while bitching and waiting for someone else to save their sorry asses. The "success" and predominance of proprietary platforms simply prove that people actually like being tied up and locked down while maintaining their convenience and illusion of freedom. > I see it different because I want to use Linux but with the constraints g= iven by the world I am connected to does not allow a flawless use of Linux/= Ubuntu. Well, that just sucks, doesn't it? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: turbolad (turbolad995) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 03:05:59 -0000 Message-Id: <20111110030600.4180.2628.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Before starting this long comment, I MUST say that I'm a *huge fan* of Ubuntu and I will do ANYTHING to make more and more people discover Ubuntu and how much better it is at things like: security, speed, never slowing down, no need for anti-virus programs and so on. It has saved me so much stress, aggro and time - compared to constantly troubleshooting Windows, defragging Windows, reinstalling Windows over and over again and so on and so on and so on. Ubuntu has been such a "lifesaver" for me that I use it all the time - and in return, I feel it's my duty to help improve it and make it more popular. I am so grateful to Mark Shuttleworth for creating Ubuntu and giving it away for free. I really wish he could be reading this. Let's focus on the newbies to Ubuntu and the world of Linux: I'm sure these are the type of users we are trying to "win over" from Windows? The "advanced" stuff like customising the firewall etc. would be performed by experienced users, not newbies. I believe my advantage here is that I *DO* see "everyday" computer users and "home" users who struggle with even the simplest things on computers and if they were loaned a computer with Ubuntu on it with Unity, they would be totally bamboozled! Trust me on that. Imagine you have never used or seen Ubuntu in your life, then you are presented with it. Ubuntu looks new and scary. Here's a few ideas which would help such users like that... To help avoid this comment from becoming too long, I'll summarise: *Newbies to Ubuntu=20 These users are different to advanced users who know how to edit configurat= ion files, use the Terminal and change their GUI etc. Setup everything for= newbies... start with a firewall integrated in Ubuntu (and variants of Ubu= ntu) that passes the "Shields Up" test on grc.com =E2=80=93 advanced users = can remove these things or tweak them, but newbies won't know how. *Upgrading Ubuntu can sometimes break things=20 I've seen a netbook get upgraded from Ubuntu 10.04 to 10.10 and its wireles= s stopped working. This is why upgrading Ubuntu is not always ideal, but a= s Ubuntu gets upgraded more often than Windows and these upgrades are free,= then it is *IMPERATIVE* that the upgrade first runs in a "test" mode to se= e if ALL of the hardware devices will work AND the power saving modes too. = If one of these fail, then the user should be directed to upload a bug rep= ort, without having to register with Launchpad first. Then the installer s= hould not prompt the user to upgrade until the affected problem has been fi= xed (but the upgrade could still be manually performed via the "Update Mana= ger" if desired, albeit with that option hidden in another tab there.). *Unity vs. taskbar Unity would be good for touch-screen devices, but the "Lubuntu" bar at the = bottom of the screen on desktop computers would make newbies use Ubuntu as = if it were Windows. I agree that GNOME, KDE and other shells can be used i= f preferred, but the focus here is on newbies who have been using Windows f= or many years and suddenly use Ubuntu - changing the operating system for n= ewbies is scary to them, so keeping it familiar would mean newbies see that= Ubuntu is so much better, faster etc. *The "restricted extras" You must still install the "restricted extras" in Ubuntu (and its variants)= after installing Ubuntu, regardless of the options to install the 3rd-part= y software during the installation. Yes I know Ubuntu can't legally includ= e Flash Player and the rest, but offering the "restricted extras" and remin= ding users this option exists is not illegal. If the person installing Ubu= ntu forgot to install these, remind the user these are available (and give = them the option to not be reminded again by means of a checkbox/tick box). I could type forever in my quest to help Ubuntu, so I better stop. :P Thank you for reading. :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 10:36:10 -0000 Message-Id: Am 10.11.2011 04:15 schrieb "turbolad" <1@bugs.launchpad.net>: > Imagine you have never used or seen Ubuntu in your life, > then you are presented with it. Ubuntu looks new and > scary. I do not agree on this. I know plenty of people who switched from a classic mobile phone to an iPhone or Android for example. Of course, it is a bit scary in the beginning, but then they begin to like the advantages over the drawbacks (most important: battery life) and - they feel being much cooler now. Similar applies when people change car manufacturer after many years. A lot of small things are different when you change car, but in general you can drive it. Whether the taskbar is on the bottom or on the left, is the least important difference between Windows and Ubuntu! People will be really scared when they open the first complex Word document in LibreOffice. On the other hand they will enjoy the software center which is similar to appstore or Android market which they already know from their mobile phone and no need to search the internet for plenty of download links. > *Newbies to Ubuntu > These users are different to advanced users who know how > to edit configuration files, use the Terminal and change > their GUI etc. Setup everything for newbies... start with a > firewall integrated in Ubuntu (and variants of Ubuntu) that > passes the "Shields Up" test on grc.com =E2=80=93 advanced users > can remove these things or tweak them, but newbies won't > know how. Most dummy users on Windows first call an advanced user to install and setup their new PC as it was before. And they struggle in the switch from XP to Windows 7 or from Office 2003 to 2010 - all those people struggle anyway and by this fact plenty of people switch to Mac because they see their need to adapt to something new anyway and they already own an iPhone. I would like to see those using Android switch to Ubuntu. :-) > *Upgrading Ubuntu can sometimes break things > I've seen a netbook get upgraded from Ubuntu 10.04 to > 10.10 and its wireless stopped working. It was already mentioned, that this should be better now but anyway: Other OS suffer the same. > Windows for many years and suddenly use Ubuntu - > changing the operating system for newbies is scary to them See above - and as long as think of this argument, the more examples I find about scary UI changes. Happens either, when your wife gets a new washing machine or new TV to some extent - compared to the taskbar on the left maybe even worse... > *The "restricted extras" > You must still install the "restricted extras" in Ubuntu > (and its variants) after installing Ubuntu It's just a checkbox during install - puhhh... Really, there are more important problems! -- Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: ehcpdeveloper (ehcpdeveloper) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 11:19:00 -0000 Message-Id: microsoft is no longer majority market share, regarding browsers: http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Pako (elektrobank01) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 11:41:12 -0000 Message-Id: <20111110114112.5969.83307.malone@wampee.canonical.com> John, you mean learn from Linux community mistakes? Because I can't see any= mistakes since their share is 95%. Linux is good because is 100% pure Unix, there is only know-how and don't-k= now-how of developing something. For now yes, we all have benefits from free software, the 100% free social = network services you are enjoy today is an example, and that's good, I can'= t denied. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:13:58 -0000 Message-Id: On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:19, ehcpdeveloper wrote: > microsoft is no longer majority market share, > regarding browsers: http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp Plenty of people are using Firefox on Windows because of increased security and/or the large amount of plugins available for Firefox. Bug #1 is about OS market share and not about browser market share (BTW Firefox is used more than IE already since years). --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 16:28:30 -0000 Message-Id: <4EBBFBAE.9010307@hal-pc.org> On 11/10/2011 04:36 AM, Martin Wildam wrote: > Similar applies when people change car manufacturer after many years. A l= ot > of small things are different when you change car, but in general you can > drive it. Whether the taskbar is on the bottom or on the left, is the lea= st > important difference between Windows and Ubuntu! People will be really > scared when they open the first complex Word document in LibreOffice. On > the other hand they will enjoy the software center which is similar to > appstore or Android market which they already know from their mobile phone > and no need to search the internet for plenty of download links. What a wonderful example. Lots of things are different, yes. But; The=20 pedle on the right is always gas, and just to the left of that break,=20 and on the far left clutch if so equipped. The turn signals and high=20 beam controls are always on the left. The gear shifter or selector is=20 almost always in the center console. There are a few exception with=20 gear selection on the dash, and they are almost universally ridiculed. Short version, while there are some changes, most things are standard.=20 There is a reason for this. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 17:47:05 -0000 Message-Id: Am 10.11.2011 17:36 schrieb "houstonbofh" <1@bugs.launchpad.net>: > Short version, while there are some changes, most things are standard. > There is a reason for this. I do not consider the taskbar position so important as gas and break in a car. Compare it to old-style gear and automatic - a big change to car usage and people managed it. On iphone or Android there is no taskbar at all and guess: Nobody is seeing that as a core issue. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 02:22:31 -0000 Message-Id: <4EBC86E7.7050603@hal-pc.org> On 11/10/2011 11:47 AM, Martin Wildam wrote: > On iphone or Android there is no taskbar at all and guess: Nobody is seei= ng > that as a core issue. And on motorcycles there is no wiper control. Comparing phones and=20 computers is about the same as cars and motorcycles. Very different use=20 and applications, even if they both do "web." --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Kumarasingam (dr-kumarasingam) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 06:13:52 -0000 Message-Id: <20111111061352.27336.82221.malone@gac.canonical.com> I regret to let the community know that here in Malaysia they only sell windows PC. The non windows PC come pre-Installed with dos. Most Computer shop don't support linux and they insist they never heard of linux before. I bought an laptop with dos and now using linux mint. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Bernard Banko (beernarrd) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 13:49:08 -0000 Message-Id: <20111112134908.4730.66777.malone@wampee.canonical.com> I have done even worse - baught a laptop with windows7 preinstalled and now= using oneiric ubuntu. One thing scarries me though about this bug: we are going in the direction = when this won't be that easy eny more. MS is pushing his Bios compiler whic= h makes crippeled bios (of course) and then supplements the shortcomings in= his OS, not documented and not standard. That is why we have problems with= suspending and hibernating and so on. On long term it might be needed to h= ave a "hardware branch" of Ubutnu just to avoid the need to adapt to crippl= ed and obscured hardware. The tablets could be a good area for the new focus of the battle, but is se= ems we are a bit late on that one, except if there is going to be an ubuntu= tablet within a year with an excelent killing feature, let it be handwriti= ng recognition, e-ink in colours, enhanched reality features combined with = tomtom, garmin or whatsoever. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Youp.net (youp.net) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 00:15:12 -0000 Message-Id: <20111124001512.24814.51453.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Ubuntu has hurt itself. The new Unify interface is worthless to new users. Where to find an overview of installed applications? Calculator is a name you can guess to type, but what if I wanted to start a= n excel like program? Excel is not a name which is supported by Unify (probably due to copyrights= ) but there's no way (for a newbee) to find the launching command. This is keeping more people at that damned MS os. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 00:36:56 -0000 Message-Id: <1322095016.68076.YahooMailClassic@web24101.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) As it happens "Calc", the spreadsheet program roughly comparable to "Excel"= is on the dock/taskbar/thingy to the left.=C2=A0 All the Office Suite apps= are (i think) and Firefox too.=C2=A0 For a significant portion of office w= orkers that is all they really need.=C2=A0=20 However, i do kinda agree with the main point you are making even if the pa= rticular specific example happens to be one of the very few things that are= easy to find. Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: MestreLion (mestrelion) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 12:35:14 -0000 Message-Id: <20111124123514.1684.76194.malone@gac.canonical.com> @ Youp.net (#1550): "... but what if I wanted to start an excel like program? [...] there's no way (for a newbee) to find the launching command."" You can just type "spreadsheet", or "calc", which is exactly what an "Excel-like" program is. All programs in Ubuntu can be found by category or function. Unlike Windows, you don't need to know the program name. For a computer illiterate, "presentation", "chat", "email" is much easier than Windows' "powerpoint", "mirc", "outlook" Ubuntu groups programs does by category. Windows by developer company. Which one is easier for newbies: "internet, games, graphics, utilities", or "Azerus, Blizzard, Adobe, Powerquest," ? "Excel is not a name which is supported by Unify (probably due to copyrights)" Its not about being supported, it's about being installed. Excel is not pre-installed in Windows either. You wont find "Excel" unless you install it, just like in Windows. And if you do (using wine), Unity will show it just fine. The big difference is: Ubuntu *does* come with a spreadsheet, out of the box, for free. Windows does not "This is keeping more people at that damned MS os." I'm glad it is keeping you there. Ubuntu is fine without trollers. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 15:40:16 -0000 Message-Id: <4ECE6560.8070002@hal-pc.org> On 11/24/2011 06:35 AM, MestreLion wrote: > "This is keeping more people at that damned MS os." > > I'm glad it is keeping you there. Ubuntu is fine without trollers. I have been with Ubuntu since Breezy, and in the industry over 25 years.=20 I found he had a very good point. Searching for something by name=20 reminds me of being told to look up words I could not spell in the=20 dictionary as a kid. "But is psychology spelled S I or S Y?" I find=20 the old an abondoned menue system much more intuitive. And remember that not everyone who disagrees with YOU is a troll. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Daniel Case (monotoko) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 16:20:32 -0000 Message-Id: >Searching for something by name >reminds me of being told to look up words I could not spell in the >dictionary as a kid. How else are you supposed to search for something other than by name..? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 17:04:27 -0000 Message-Id: <4ECE791B.80608@hal-pc.org> On 11/24/2011 10:20 AM, Daniel Case wrote: > How else are you supposed to search for something other than by name..? OK. Find me the DVD player. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 20:25:53 -0000 Message-Id: <1322166353.36832.YahooMailClassic@web24102.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) Search by date, location, type of thing, description, size...=C2=A0 Wild-ca= rds can be useful. Regards from Tom :) --- On Thu, 24/11/11, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: From: houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share To: TomDavies04@Yahoo.Co.Uk Date: Thursday, 24 November, 2011, 17:04 On 11/24/2011 10:20 AM, Daniel Case wrote: > How else are you supposed to search for something other than by name..? OK.=C2=A0 Find me the DVD player. --=20 You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug report. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 Title: =C2=A0 Microsoft has a majority market share Status in Club Distro: =C2=A0 Confirmed Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: =C2=A0 Confirmed Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: =C2=A0 Invalid Status in dylan.NET: =C2=A0 Invalid Status in EasyPeasy Overview: =C2=A0 Invalid Status in GenOS: =C2=A0 In Progress Status in GNOME Screensaver: =C2=A0 Won't Fix Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: =C2=A0 Invalid Status in JAK LINUX: =C2=A0 Invalid Status in LibreOffice: =C2=A0 In Progress Status in The Linux Kernel: =C2=A0 New Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: =C2=A0 In Progress Status in The Linux OS Project: =C2=A0 In Progress Status in The Metacity Window Manager: =C2=A0 In Progress Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: =C2=A0 In Progress Status in Tabuntu: =C2=A0 Invalid Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: =C2=A0 Invalid Status in Tv-Player: =C2=A0 New Status in Ubuntu Gnome Remix Metapackages: =C2=A0 In Progress Status in Ubuntu: =C2=A0 In Progress Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: =C2=A0 In Progress Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: =C2=A0 Invalid Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: =C2=A0 Invalid Status in Arch Linux: =C2=A0 New Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: =C2=A0 Invalid Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: =C2=A0 In Progress Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: =C2=A0 Confirmed Status in openSUSE: =C2=A0 In Progress Status in Tilix Linux: =C2=A0 New Bug description: =C2=A0 Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketpl= ace. =C2=A0 This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. =C2=A0 Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, =C2=A0 restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population a= nd =C2=A0 limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full =C2=A0 potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. =C2=A0 Steps to repeat: =C2=A0 1. Visit a local PC store. =C2=A0 What happens: =C2=A0 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pr= e-installed. =C2=A0 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. =C2=A0 What should happen: =C2=A0 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software = like Ubuntu. =C2=A0 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features= and benefits would be apparent and known by all. =C2=A0 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passe= s. To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 22:25:51 -0000 Message-Id: I find the search effective - as it is/was also in synaptic package manager. Anyway: What the hack is the problem with keeping the menu in addition to th search? (on the left or whereever) http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/5662/workspace1003.png -- Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 03:47:52 -0000 Message-Id: <4ECF0FE8.5000405@hal-pc.org> On 11/24/2011 04:25 PM, Martin Wildam wrote: > Anyway: What the hack is the problem with keeping the menu in addition > to th search? Been asking this for a while. Still no answer, other than "You can get=20 to the old menu if you clock on the magic bar and type "idkfa" three times." --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 09:23:47 -0000 Message-Id: <1322213027.30185.YahooMailClassic@web24101.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) The problem was that Gnome 3 is going in this dumbed down direction anyway = and with less consideration of what people actually want (outside of the Gn= ome gang).=C2=A0 I think they are unhappy with distros such as Ubuntu using= and updating their code without actively maintaining it.=C2=A0 Unity bring= s control back into the Ubuntu project.=C2=A0=20 While Unity's starting point is as bad as Gnome 3's end result it is only the starting point and will evolve (hopefully) in a direction that users want rather than what programmers want.=C2=A0 This is not really the place for this old tired argument to flame up again.= =C2=A0 There are plenty of other places to get involved with that.=C2=A0 Th= is thread is supposed to be about getting Ubuntu and the wider Gnu&Linux mo= re widely accepted on desktops and mobile devices.=C2=A0=20 Just my 2cents Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Eliah Kagan (degeneracypressure) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 04:17:55 -0000 Message-Id: <20111128041759.18537.36925.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> The recent change in Ubuntu from In Progress to Confirmed seems clearly to be a mistake; it seems highly unlikely that this bug is no longer being actively worked on in Ubuntu. (All work on Ubuntu could be considered active work on this bug.) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:21:32 -0000 Message-Id: On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 10:23, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > This is not really the place for this old tired argument to flame up agai= n. > There are plenty of other places to get involved with that. > This thread is supposed to be about getting Ubuntu and the wider Gnu&Linu= x more widely accepted on > desktops and mobile devices. There are a lot of bigger or smaller decisions actively contributing to how good this bug is addressed - as already mentioned - all work on Ubuntu could be seen related to this one. --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 18:22:20 -0000 Message-Id: <1322590940.77235.YahooMailClassic@web24108.mail.ird.yahoo.com> +1 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: codejodler (codejodler) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 00:04:02 -0000 Message-Id: <20111130000402.20571.79114.malone@gac.canonical.com> Update for Germany, 2011: Most internet cafes i see switched to Ubuntu meanwhile. This is always a good starting point for students (for example moving or on holiday) who use cafes a lot. The very single thing they use in the first place is the internet browser. It is not really adding to this discussion but it must be siad that the available browsers (and preferably firefox or konqueror) need to be priority #1 today, especially at the brink of cloud computing. That said, this will alll change since more and more young people have PDAs and other internet mobiles. They won't need internet cafes anymore. (I believe these will all die away sooner or later.) So the mobile or PDA market would be another priority, but this is a totally different stage. But getting students to know Linux is not fully efficient anyway. The first computer experience is what counts, and that's (for most kids) when they are in school age. Which means, schools and of course, parents are the multiplyers. And there we need an easy desktop again. I propose: * To supply marriage offices with linux distros to hand out. * To convince school directors with presentation visits and selfmade high q= uality coffee. * To initiate a unified taskforce to create a fully operational linux OS fo= r mobiles, based on Debian, and convince Blackberry to be the first member. * To convince Novell SuSe to move to Debian too. (I am sorry but what the h= eck) * A good media PR for the first space enabled Ubuntu for the ISS (handed ov= er by Shuttleworth) * Append 'created on linux to every mail and document. * nuclear-power free linux :) All that payed by governemnt of course. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Michael Basse (michael-alpha-unix) Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2012 14:19:37 -0000 Message-Id: <20120107141937.31263.55908.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> Nice to see that there is a little progress on fixing this bug http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Desktop-Linux-increases- presence-1404957.html --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Bart Willemsen (b-willemsen8) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 14:59:29 -0000 Message-Id: <20120112145929.18770.87583.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> Well, nice to see that the Linux marketshare starts to rise a little bit. Still, we are just 1,5% according to those statistics, which still is really small, we need to grow faster! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 17:07:18 -0000 Message-Id: On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 15:59, Bart Willemsen <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Well, nice to see that the Linux marketshare starts to rise a little > bit. Still, we are just 1,5% according to those statistics, which still > is really small, we need to grow faster! It really also depends on country! For example look here: http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-UY-monthly-201009-201109-bar Linux 4,29 % Uruguay! or: http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-CU-monthly-201009-201109-bar Linux 6,84 % in Cuba !!! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 18:03:13 -0000 Message-Id: <1326391393.23769.YahooMailClassic@web24105.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) As always the stats are somewhat spurious. If someone buys a new machine a= nd then puts Gnu&Linux on it and never uses Windows then they still count a= s a Windows user in almost every set of stats. The machine was sold with W= indows so it counts as a Windows machine. Unless they bought it from a Mac= store of course. =20 Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 19:23:56 -0000 Message-Id: OS X is not that much larger. I think growing as large as OS X should be ou= r goal. That would make it required to make Linux version of games and othe= r apps that we dont have... > Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 14:59:29 +0000 > From: 1@bugs.launchpad.net > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > Subject: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Well, nice to see that the Linux marketshare starts to rise a little > bit. Still, we are just 1,5% according to those statistics, which still > is really small, we need to grow faster! >=20 > --=20 > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >=20 > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in The Linux Kernel: > New > Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: > In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > New > Status in Ubuntu Gnome Remix Metapackages: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: > Invalid > Status in Arch Linux: > New > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New >=20 > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >=20 > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full > potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >=20 > Steps to repeat: >=20 > 1. Visit a local PC store. >=20 > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-i= nstalled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >=20 > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software lik= e Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features an= d benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >=20 > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 20:59:51 -0000 Message-Id: <1326401991.15601.YahooMailClassic@web24104.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) Perhaps try these links=20 http://www.unixmen.com/gaming-on-linux1131-19-awesome-opensource-games-for-= linux/ http://trine-thegame.com/site/ It is possible to purchase games that run in Gnu&Linux.=C2=A0 Those people = need to know that you are using Gnu&Linux if you buy them.=C2=A0 If you do = buy them make a point of writing in to tell them you use Gnu&Linux.=C2=A0 I= must admit i haven't bought as i find endless enjoyment from Wesnoth, Gles= t and some other native Gnu&Linux games. Regards from Tom :) --- On Thu, 12/1/12, Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: From: Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> Subject: RE: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share To: TomDavies04@Yahoo.Co.Uk Date: Thursday, 12 January, 2012, 19:23 OS X is not that much larger. I think growing as large as OS X should be our goal. That would make it required to make Linux version of games and other apps that we dont have... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 23:09:27 -0000 Message-Id: It is. But there is still far more games released for OS X. If we grow larg= er then OS X, then we will have more games then OS X... > Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 20:59:51 +0000 > From: 1@bugs.launchpad.net > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > Subject: RE: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Hi :) > Perhaps try these links=20 > http://www.unixmen.com/gaming-on-linux1131-19-awesome-opensource-games-fo= r-linux/ > http://trine-thegame.com/site/ > It is possible to purchase games that run in Gnu&Linux. Those people nee= d to know that you are using Gnu&Linux if you buy them. If you do buy them= make a point of writing in to tell them you use Gnu&Linux. I must admit i= haven't bought as i find endless enjoyment from Wesnoth, Glest and some ot= her native Gnu&Linux games. > Regards from > Tom :) >=20 >=20 > --- On Thu, 12/1/12, Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: >=20 > From: Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> > Subject: RE: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share > To: TomDavies04@Yahoo.Co.Uk > Date: Thursday, 12 January, 2012, 19:23 >=20 > OS X is not that much larger. I think growing as large as OS X should be > our goal. That would make it required to make Linux version of games and > other apps that we dont have... >=20 > --=20 > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >=20 > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in The Linux Kernel: > New > Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: > In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > New > Status in Ubuntu Gnome Remix Metapackages: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: > Invalid > Status in Arch Linux: > New > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New >=20 > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >=20 > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full > potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >=20 > Steps to repeat: >=20 > 1. Visit a local PC store. >=20 > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-i= nstalled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >=20 > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software lik= e Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features an= d benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >=20 > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 07:12:48 -0000 Message-Id: <1326438768.47076.YahooMailClassic@web24108.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) The point i was making is that such things have moved on from just a couple= of years ago.=C2=A0 The games industry has made occasional forays into Gnu= &Linux-land but never gains traction.=C2=A0 This is despite such forays som= etimes making significant profits.=C2=A0=20 I don't know how true but there is a story about someone porting quite a few famous legacy games such as Elite and releasing in a few different sizes and then asking people to pay what they felt it was worth, even allowing people to download for free.=C2=A0 The "unexpected" result was that a huge amount of cash flooded in and when broken down by OS it was the Gnu&Linux users that paid far more per download and in total.=C2=A0 The games industry then did what people normally do when they find something enourmously successful and highly profitable but a little unusual and possibly contra-intuitive.=C2=A0 They ignored the results.=C2=A0 Regards from Tom :) --- On Thu, 12/1/12, Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: From: Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> Subject: RE: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share To: TomDavies04@Yahoo.Co.Uk Date: Thursday, 12 January, 2012, 23:09 It is. But there is still far more games released for OS X. If we grow larger then OS X, then we will have more games then OS X... > Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 20:59:51 +0000 > From: 1@bugs.launchpad.net > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > Subject: RE: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Hi :) > Perhaps try these links=20 > http://www.unixmen.com/gaming-on-linux1131-19-awesome-opensource-games-fo= r-linux/ > http://trine-thegame.com/site/ > It is possible to purchase games that run in Gnu&Linux.=C2=A0 Those peopl= e need to know that you are using Gnu&Linux if you buy them.=C2=A0 If you d= o buy them make a point of writing in to tell them you use Gnu&Linux.=C2=A0= I must admit i haven't bought as i find endless enjoyment from Wesnoth, Gl= est and some other native Gnu&Linux games. > Regards from > Tom :) >=20 >=20 > --- On Thu, 12/1/12, Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: >=20 > From: Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> > Subject: RE: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share > To: TomDavies04@Yahoo.Co.Uk > Date: Thursday, 12 January, 2012, 19:23 >=20 > OS X is not that much larger. I think growing as large as OS X should be > our goal. That would make it required to make Linux version of games and > other apps that we dont have... >=20 > --=20 > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >=20 > Title: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Status in Club Distro: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Confirmed > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0In Progress > Status in The Linux Kernel: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0New > Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0New > Status in Ubuntu Gnome Remix Metapackages: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0In Progress > Status in Ubuntu: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0In Progress > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Invalid > Status in Arch Linux: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0New > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0New >=20 > Bug description: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop= PC marketplace. >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >=20 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT i= ndustry, >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's = population and >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0limiting the ability of software developers to reach the= ir full >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the P= C industry. >=20 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Steps to repeat: >=20 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A01. Visit a local PC store. >=20 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0What happens: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A02. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free= software pre-installed. >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A03. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pr= e-installed. >=20 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0What should happen: >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A01. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only fr= ee software like Ubuntu. >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A02. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amaz= ing features and benefits would be apparent and known by all. >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A03. The system shall become more and more user friendly a= s time passes. >=20 > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions --=20 You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug report. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 Title: =C2=A0 Microsoft has a majority market share Status in Club Distro: =C2=A0 Confirmed Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: =C2=A0 Confirmed Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: =C2=A0 Invalid Status in dylan.NET: =C2=A0 Invalid Status in EasyPeasy Overview: =C2=A0 Invalid Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: =C2=A0 Invalid Status in JAK LINUX: =C2=A0 Invalid Status in LibreOffice: =C2=A0 In Progress Status in The Linux Kernel: =C2=A0 New Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: =C2=A0 In Progress Status in The Linux OS Project: =C2=A0 In Progress Status in The Metacity Window Manager: =C2=A0 In Progress Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: =C2=A0 In Progress Status in Tabuntu: =C2=A0 Invalid Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: =C2=A0 Invalid Status in Tv-Player: =C2=A0 New Status in Ubuntu Gnome Remix Metapackages: =C2=A0 In Progress Status in Ubuntu: =C2=A0 In Progress Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: =C2=A0 In Progress Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: =C2=A0 Invalid Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: =C2=A0 Invalid Status in Arch Linux: =C2=A0 New Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: =C2=A0 Invalid Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: =C2=A0 In Progress Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: =C2=A0 Confirmed Status in openSUSE: =C2=A0 In Progress Status in Tilix Linux: =C2=A0 New Bug description: =C2=A0 Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketpl= ace. =C2=A0 This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. =C2=A0 Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, =C2=A0 restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population a= nd =C2=A0 limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full =C2=A0 potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. =C2=A0 Steps to repeat: =C2=A0 1. Visit a local PC store. =C2=A0 What happens: =C2=A0 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pr= e-installed. =C2=A0 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. =C2=A0 What should happen: =C2=A0 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software = like Ubuntu. =C2=A0 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features= and benefits would be apparent and known by all. =C2=A0 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passe= s. To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 09:56:42 -0000 Message-Id: Perhaps we need to gather information about such successes and spread the i= nformation. If we can find enough data perhaps we can get press attention a= nd thus more attention from game studios. Perhaps you are referring to projects like "The Humble Indie Bundle". Such games are often very inspired by old games, but naturally avoid using any original material... Interestingly enough The Humble Indie Bundle stats show that there are more Linux gamers then OS X gamers. If we can find more such stats then we can claim that Linux GAMING MARKET SHARE is larger then OS X, imagine what such headlines does to game studio decision makers... Remember then market share !=3D user share. > Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 07:12:48 +0000 > From: 1@bugs.launchpad.net > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > Subject: RE: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Hi :) > The point i was making is that such things have moved on from just a coup= le of years ago. The games industry has made occasional forays into Gnu&Li= nux-land but never gains traction. This is despite such forays sometimes m= aking significant profits. =20 >=20 > I don't know how true but there is a story about someone porting quite a > few famous legacy games such as Elite and releasing in a few different > sizes and then asking people to pay what they felt it was worth, even > allowing people to download for free. The "unexpected" result was that > a huge amount of cash flooded in and when broken down by OS it was the > Gnu&Linux users that paid far more per download and in total. >=20 > The games industry then did what people normally do when they find > something enourmously successful and highly profitable but a little > unusual and possibly contra-intuitive. They ignored the results. >=20 > Regards from > Tom :) >=20 >=20 > --- On Thu, 12/1/12, Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: >=20 > From: Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> > Subject: RE: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share > To: TomDavies04@Yahoo.Co.Uk > Date: Thursday, 12 January, 2012, 23:09 >=20 > It is. But there is still far more games released for OS X. If we grow > larger then OS X, then we will have more games then OS X... >=20 > > Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 20:59:51 +0000 > > From: 1@bugs.launchpad.net > > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > > Subject: RE: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share > >=20 > > Hi :) > > Perhaps try these links=20 > > http://www.unixmen.com/gaming-on-linux1131-19-awesome-opensource-games-= for-linux/ > > http://trine-thegame.com/site/ > > It is possible to purchase games that run in Gnu&Linux. Those people n= eed to know that you are using Gnu&Linux if you buy them. If you do buy th= em make a point of writing in to tell them you use Gnu&Linux. I must admit= i haven't bought as i find endless enjoyment from Wesnoth, Glest and some = other native Gnu&Linux games. > > Regards from > > Tom :) > >=20 > >=20 > > --- On Thu, 12/1/12, Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > >=20 > > From: Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> > > Subject: RE: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share > > To: TomDavies04@Yahoo.Co.Uk > > Date: Thursday, 12 January, 2012, 19:23 > >=20 > > OS X is not that much larger. I think growing as large as OS X should be > > our goal. That would make it required to make Linux version of games and > > other apps that we dont have... > >=20 > > --=20 > > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > > report. > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > >=20 > > Title: > > Microsoft has a majority market share > >=20 > > Status in Club Distro: > > Confirmed > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > > Confirmed > > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > > Invalid > > Status in dylan.NET: > > Invalid > > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > > Invalid > > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > > Invalid > > Status in JAK LINUX: > > Invalid > > Status in LibreOffice: > > In Progress > > Status in The Linux Kernel: > > New > > Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: > > In Progress > > Status in The Linux OS Project: > > In Progress > > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: > > In Progress > > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > > In Progress > > Status in Tabuntu: > > Invalid > > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > > Invalid > > Status in Tv-Player: > > New > > Status in Ubuntu Gnome Remix Metapackages: > > In Progress > > Status in Ubuntu: > > In Progress > > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: > > In Progress > > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: > > Invalid > > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: > > Invalid > > Status in Arch Linux: > > New > > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > > Invalid > > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > > In Progress > > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > > Confirmed > > Status in openSUSE: > > In Progress > > Status in Tilix Linux: > > New > >=20 > > Bug description: > > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketpla= ce. > > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > >=20 > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full > > potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > >=20 > > Steps to repeat: > >=20 > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > >=20 > > What happens: > > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre= -installed. > > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > >=20 > > What should happen: > > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software l= ike Ubuntu. > > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features = and benefits would be apparent and known by all. > > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > >=20 > > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions >=20 > --=20 > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >=20 > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in The Linux Kernel: > New > Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: > In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > New > Status in Ubuntu Gnome Remix Metapackages: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: > Invalid > Status in Arch Linux: > New > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New >=20 > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >=20 > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full > potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >=20 > Steps to repeat: >=20 > 1. Visit a local PC store. >=20 > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-i= nstalled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >=20 > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software lik= e Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features an= d benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >=20 > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions >=20 > --=20 > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >=20 > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in The Linux Kernel: > New > Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: > In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > New > Status in Ubuntu Gnome Remix Metapackages: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: > Invalid > Status in Arch Linux: > New > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New >=20 > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >=20 > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full > potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >=20 > Steps to repeat: >=20 > 1. Visit a local PC store. >=20 > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-i= nstalled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >=20 > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software lik= e Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features an= d benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >=20 > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 13:36:48 -0000 Message-Id: <1326548208.74014.YahooMailClassic@web24106.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) Yes, the "The Humble Indie Bundle".=C2=A0 I think we have to catch and prom= ote such things at the time but articles could mention previous successes t= o perhaps gain more advantage. Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Neil Tallim (red-hamsterx) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 17:47:00 -0000 Message-Id: Before drawing conclusions from that source, note the group donations values. Some, like me, put most of our monetary contribution through those paths, and demographic stats aren't collected via that avenue. -Neil On Jan 14, 2012 6:45 AM, "Tom" <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Hi :) > Yes, the "The Humble Indie Bundle". I think we have to catch and promote > such things at the time but articles could mention previous successes to > perhaps gain more advantage. > Regards from > Tom :) > > -- > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share > > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 20:42:06 -0000 Message-Id: <1326573726.76538.YahooMailClassic@web24108.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) Yes, but what i found interesting was=20 1.=C2=A0 the profits were quite high=20 2.=C2=A0 that Gnu&Linux users were very ready to pay to play.=C2=A0=20 Both of those points are completely opposite to current 'wisdom'.=C2=A0 The= fact that some Gnu&L:inux users were not even included in the stats just a= dds to both points.=C2=A0=20 regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 21:31:29 -0000 Message-Id: I personally don't give much on games. Nowadays there's Nintendo wii or stuff like that. I rely and depend on my Ubuntu desktop on my daily work and hence want to see the focus there. -- Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam Am 14.01.2012 18:56 schrieb "Neil Tallim" : > Before drawing conclusions from that source, note the group donations > values. Some, like me, put most of our monetary contribution through those > paths, and demographic stats aren't collected via that avenue. > > -Neil > On Jan 14, 2012 6:45 AM, "Tom" <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > > > Hi :) > > Yes, the "The Humble Indie Bundle". I think we have to catch and promo= te > > such things at the time but articles could mention previous successes to > > perhaps gain more advantage. > > Regards from > > Tom :) > > > > -- > > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > > report. > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > > > Title: > > Microsoft has a majority market share > > > > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions > > > > -- > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share > > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in The Linux Kernel: > New > Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: > In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > New > Status in Ubuntu Gnome Remix Metapackages: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: > Invalid > Status in Arch Linux: > New > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full > potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Sam_ (and-sam) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 15:47:50 -0000 Message-Id: <20120120154750.31967.55364.malone@soybean.canonical.com> The Internet-Enquete-Commission of the German Federal Parliament, published= their first results of their two-year study (quote translated from german = media coverage): A mobile computer in every school bag - with this recommendation to the str= engthening of media literacy, the Internet Parliament Study Commission pres= ented its first results. "This is a good way, we must now follow through th= e states and municipalities," said the chairman of the Working Group, Thoma= s Jarzombek. "If only every student brings it's (learning)-computer into the classroom, all parties will be forced to deal with the Internet," says the newly published interim report on media literacy. The goal of all efforts to promote media literacy is to empower individuals and strengthen it, especially the interactive media, "to use it self- determined, competent and confident". https://blog.internetenquete.de/ - - - - - - snip Conclusion, the German Federal Parliament needs to become acquainted with U= buntu rather sooner than later. Imagine kids in Germany having an Ubuntu laptop in their school bag and tea= chers have their teaching plans ready in Ubuntu Cloud. Ubuntu's footprint in Germany would play an essential role since European P= arliament is also sympathizing with open source, not to mention Cities like= Munich (Limux-Project), police-departments in France and others which alre= ady stepped up. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: turbolad (turbolad995) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 17:00:51 -0000 Message-Id: <20120120170051.32546.8328.malone@soybean.canonical.com> If you want more people to migrate to Ubuntu, please scrap the Unity interf= ace. Unity breaks familiarly, is too confusing and drives users' back to t= heir "comfort zone" of using Microsoft Windows. I have written in great de= tail about Unity and why users' don't get on with it - read comments 12 and= 13 from this link for a detailed overview from me (turbolad): http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/29021/ Clearly Mark Shuttleworth does not care about Unity destroying any chance Ubuntu has of becoming successful! Feel free to copy and paste them comments from that link. I couldn't fit it all into one comment on there, so I split it across two comments instead. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 17:20:16 -0000 Message-Id: <1327080016.32519.YahooMailClassic@web24102.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) The new Gnome has gone weird too.=C2=A0 It's easier to influence the direct= ion that Unity takes whereas Gnome is firmly taking it's own path regardles= s of what distros want.=C2=A0 Distros that are sticking with Gnome tend to = avoid Gnome 3 or tweak it back to look like Gnome 2 (ie Mint).=C2=A0 Hopefu= lly Unity will start to look more familiar as it becomes more friendly for = power-users.=C2=A0=20 Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 17:27:50 -0000 Message-Id: <4F19A416.4080301@canonical.com> On 20/01/12 17:20, Tom wrote: > Hopefully Unity will start to look more familiar as it becomes more frien= dly for power-users. Heavy users are a specific focus for Precise, we're testing on=20 developers and all-day multitaskers specifically, which has thrown up=20 some rough edges for smoothing. Hope you will like the result :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Zentai Andras (andras-zentai) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 13:08:03 -0000 Message-Id: <20120122130803.32546.63663.malone@soybean.canonical.com> Two of my Friends are already using Ubuntu because I showed them as a better alternative than Windows. And they are very contented! Thanks for your lot of work! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: turbolad (turbolad995) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 21:48:11 -0000 Message-Id: <20120122214811.21601.86657.malone@gac.canonical.com> I really wish to see EVERYONE with a computer using Ubuntu. I'm scared Unity will see the demise of Ubuntu! Here's the advantage I can offer here which few others can: I see how computers get used by people who have little knowledge about using computers; such users find it difficult to understand what the rest of us know without thinking. Here's the secret to win-over new users: assume new users DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING. It's like they have landed on another planet and need to make sense of things. Such users can use a cashpoint/ATM without even knowing what operating system it's running underneath. If the cashpoint/ATM is not running Windows, they have no idea. An interface which the user does not have to =E2=80=9Clearn=E2=80=9D may be th= e reason why tablet devices like the iPad have become so successful? When you design a user interface, it must be *fast*. A blazingly fast interface will instantly impress users who are familiar with the slower response times of Microsoft Windows. It also allows programs to run faster, especially when Ubuntu is installed on older computers. I think it will be at least 10 years before we see a fully =E2=80=9C3D=E2= =80=9D graphical user interface, so let's focus on 2D user interfaces for now and later introduce more advanced and powerful user interfaces on newer computers in the future. Don't allow all the bells and whistles of the user interface to conflict with programs like Flash Player and Wine - a weakness with Unity at the moment. Remember that users are likely to be relying on Wine to run Windows programs which are not available for Ubuntu/Linux. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:29:48 -0000 Message-Id: On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 18:27, Mark Shuttleworth <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wro= te: > Heavy users are a specific focus for Precise, we're testing on > developers and all-day multitaskers specifically, which has thrown up > some rough edges for smoothing. Hope you will like the result :) I am really glad to read that. So far I did not have a chance to look into the development version (due to job transition). A highly efficient and reliable desktop (with an easy way for fast and reliable backup and restore) is essential for me as I do depend on it in my daily work. I am with you that the home users and other groups are desired new users but the current user base is even more important. AND: WE are those going to install Ubuntu on the computers of our family members and friends. In very rare cases "dummy users" will try Ubuntu without a specialist in the neighbourhood who can help. If i am not convinced of this system, how to convince others? Once a month we have a local Ubuntu meeting here in Vienna (Austria) and what I see is: Not even two people - even the more beginner types - have a same looking desktop. This is an important sign that Ubuntu lives from and needs this freedom and possibiliity to adjust to people's needs. People and their (way to) work is so different that the most efficient way is also different. Hence Unity also needs to be flexible and I really hope to see more flexibility there. For example, the old Gnome menu was so dare simple even for the mouse-only users that I don't want to loose that option. BTW: Happily I am in the situation that in my last two jobs my bosses were willing to hire me together with my Ubuntu laptop. Once I was asked if I would either use Windows also and my response was: I would cost much more money then ;-) On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 22:48, turbolad <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > I really wish to see EVERYONE with a computer using Ubuntu.=C2=A0 I'm sca= red > Unity will see the demise of Ubuntu! I wish that too but not because I am a fanboy. The problem is: In my daily work I get annoyed by Windows - if it is just People nagging me with .docx files that look like hell when opened in LibreOffice. I hate it and want all to use LibreOffice. Same applies for Exchange Servers and Outlook which is not able to correctly display a well cited E-Mail sent in HTML format (no, even not the Outlook 2010). Etc etc. > Here's the secret to win-over new users: assume new users DON'T KNOW > WHAT THEY ARE DOING.=C2=A0 It's like they have landed on another planet a= nd > need to make sense of things. > [...] > An interface which the user does not have to =E2=80=9Clearn=E2=80=9D may = be the reason why > tablet devices like the iPad have become so successful? The users you are talking about do also have problems using current smartphones. Apart from using the phone (in some cases neither that) those people have similiar problems using their smartphone as using their PC/Laptop. And they have continously problems using their (Windows-)PC also. WHATEVER OS you will give them, they will struggle. The example you gave (which I don't know what it is) probably is a UI for a simple operation/workflow/action by itself already. Even somebody can experience troubles using simple GUIs - e.g. buying a ticket for the train - when you do not know something already about the environment. E.g. in Italy public means of transport are charged in a completely different way than in Vienna (by time you travel rather than by direction for a single ticket). Those people most probably will never try Ubuntu anyway. They are scared by computers in general that you would need to force them to use Ubuntu. I can do this with my family members where they simply don't get support if they don't switch, but not with anybody else. Getting back to Ubuntu: a) People - and I am talking about the interested ones that want to try Ubuntu - are not so inflexible as you might think. I have seen people much older than 60 learning Ubuntu in 2 weeks and never looking back. b) I don't care of those people who struggle with technology in general. And Canonical should at least not care too much about those. Car vendors also do not focus on people using their car only once a month. They focus on those who sit hours and hours in the car and drive day and night. An OS is a core thing on a computer and should fit for those who make intensive use of it. > When you design a user interface, it must be *fast*.=C2=A0 A blazingly fa= st > interface will instantly impress users who are familiar with the slower > response times of Microsoft Windows.=C2=A0 It also allows programs to run > faster, especially when Ubuntu is installed on older computers. Of course, fast is important. But you can't get many features + fast. Therefore there are variants like Xubuntu and Lubuntu or other distributions meant for low-power machines. Lubuntu for me is missing some features in the main GUI, that I consider important for me. My machine is fast enough even with adding a few "gimmicks". So the default desktop environment must be a right combination of features and speed. Best wishes, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:53:11 -0000 Message-Id: <1327323191.41875.YahooMailClassic@web24107.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) Ubuntu is already much faster than Windows.=C2=A0 Even where Windows is fre= shly installed and perhaps tweaked for maximum performance i still find eve= n an old crumbling and messed-up Ubuntu on a usb-stick out-performs it.=C2= =A0=20 It's difficult to test now because i put an hour into re-installing Ubuntu 10.04 to the same usb-stick so it works like new and i haven't lost any data.=C2=A0 On a similar machine a reinstall of WIndows took about= 2 days (including updates, reboot, update again, reboot again, update again ... and i am still not sure everything (eg all drivers, all programs)) is updated).=C2=A0 If speed was the only issue then Ubuntu beats Windows hands-down.=C2=A0 No = contest.=C2=A0=20 Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: B Bobo (yout-bobo123) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 15:57:14 -0000 Message-Id: <20120123155714.22555.2013.malone@soybean.canonical.com> Can we at least acknowledge that Ubuntu's own bug tracking system does not even work properly, see e.g. bug 892824? Until that is solved, I don't think Ubuntu is even in the same race as Microsoft. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 16:23:09 -0000 Message-Id: On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 16:57, B Bobo <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Can we at least acknowledge that Ubuntu's own bug tracking system does > not even work properly, see e.g. bug 892824? Until that is solved, I > don't think Ubuntu is even in the same race as Microsoft. a) Launchpad is not Ubuntu b) Are you kidding? I never had any access to some sort of bug tracking system at Microsoft and I think that the feature "Send report" on crashing MS apps is redirected to /dev/null - at least to me nobody has ever responded to such a report. For me bug tracking at MS is non-existing - at least from my experience. Best regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: B Bobo (yout-bobo123) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 16:59:45 -0000 Message-Id: <20120123165945.1424.66846.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> 1) Ubuntu is separate from Launchpad. But I thought Ubuntu has some kind of relationship to Launchpad. Oh yes, I remember: Ubuntu does not have a bug tracking system of its own - it uses Launchpad. That's a absolutely important relationship between Ubuntu and Launchpad, but let's ignore it, anyway, so we can keep our distance from the Launchpad project and ignore the fact that Ubuntu development is crippled without a properly functioning bug tracking system. 2) Because Microsoft (allegedly) lacks a (public) bug tracking system that works, it is perfectly ok for Ubuntu to lack one too. We can be absolutely certain that none of Microsoft's employees and contractors have ever used the internal Microsoft bug tracking system. It just sits there all day, unused, untouched. And there is no semi-public interface via KB. 3) Ubuntu is beyond constructive criticism. The Launchpad bug tracking system basically works - promise! :-) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:14:20 -0000 Message-Id: On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 17:59, B Bobo <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > 1) [...] That's a absolutely > important relationship between Ubuntu and Launchpad Yes of course, you are right, and it should be improved where it lacks. > 2) Because Microsoft (allegedly) lacks a (public) bug tracking system > that works, it is perfectly ok for Ubuntu to lack one too. Of course, just because Microsoft has no public relation with the users, it is not ok, that other products and vendors ignore their lacks. > absolutely certain that none of Microsoft's employees and contractors I have worked for two different Microsoft Gold Partners and I have not seen any bug tracking system of them. > 3) Ubuntu is beyond constructive criticism. The Launchpad bug tracking > system basically works - promise! :-) I had good experiences with launchpad - better experences than with many other bug tracking systems. Of course there is always room for improvement... Best regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: B Bobo (yout-bobo123) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 19:19:07 -0000 Message-Id: <20120123191907.1424.10430.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> 1,3) Given that Ubuntu's own bug tracking system perpetually times out without fail under common use cases such as in bug 892824, I don't think it can be described as fit for purpose. In this state, Launchpad wastes Ubuntu developers' and users' time; it is f= undamentally broken. Worse, none of the Launchpad developers has yet commented on the issue of t= he perpetual time outs. This makes a bad impression of Ubuntu because Ubunt= u has chosen Launchpad as its bug tracking system. There are alternative bu= g tracking systems that work reliably, have better features than Launchpad,= and could replace Launchpad right now. 2) In my universe, I know a Microsoft employee who regularly uses one of their internal bug tracking systems and confirms it works better than Launchpad on a larger database at higher TPS :-) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 08:41:08 -0000 Message-Id: On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 20:19, B Bobo <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > 1,3) Given that Ubuntu's own bug tracking system perpetually times out > without fail under common use cases such as in bug 892824, I don't think > it can be described as fit for purpose. I did not face this problem so far - however, I am not a power user of Launchpad. It is the first time that I read about such problems. Is this a recent problem or an old problem? > In this state, Launchpad wastes Ubuntu developers' and users' time; it is= fundamentally broken. If there are fundamental flaws I am sure there is a way to fix it - if it is just to use a different software. BTW: Have you ever reported a bug on redhat Fedora? That's where I was annoyed by the poor performance. Maybe they solved that - don't know - already a longer while ago. > Worse, none of the Launchpad developers has yet commented on the issue of= the perpetual time outs. > 2) In my universe, I know a Microsoft employee who regularly uses one of > their internal bug tracking systems and confirms it works better than > Launchpad on a larger database at higher TPS :-) At least at Microsoft they have access to a bug tracking system - even if it does not help me... Best regards, Martin. --=20 Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 11:30:58 -0000 Message-Id: <1327404658.90173.YahooMailClassic@web24103.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) It is possible to post bug-reports against Launchpad.=C2=A0 Same as Bugzill= a which a lot of other projects use.=C2=A0=20 Not many projects have their own bug-tracking system.=C2=A0 Most use an independent system such as Bugzilla, Launchpad or perhaps others.=C2=A0 This creates competition between those projects.=C2=A0 If one behaves exceptionally well then distros or perhaps smaller projects start using it if they were disatisfied with whatever they were currently using.=C2=A0 It's the same for most packages.=C2=A0 For example Ubuntu doesn't create it= 's own Office Suite or Web-browser.=C2=A0 The default choices can be swapped-o= ut and replaced for other ones.=C2=A0 I tend to remove OpenOffice and replace with LibreOffice and now many distros have switched to defaulting to LibreOffice.=C2=A0 If OpenOffice suddenly became awesome i might switch back.=C2=A0 By keeping it's independence OpenOffice is given the chance to compete in a fair way and perhaps bounce back.=C2=A0 This approach means th= at projects tend to make sure they respond quickly to users requirements.=C2=A0 Indeed one of the problem of OpenOffice has been it's lack of competition (KOffice/Caligra had a tiny niche as did Gnome Office although all 3 can be run on Windows) and so it was able to get away with very little progress.=C2=A0 The Microsoft way is very similar to the Borg.=C2=A0 They absorb/take- over/assimilate a project and force it to comply with what management demands of it.=C2=A0 There is almost no chance of normal users being able to influence the default choices.=C2=A0 Projects inside MS compete with each other to please upper management, not users.=C2=A0 Borg drones move very slowly and machines running Windows are very slow too.=C2=A0 I have not used MS bug-tracking.=C2=A0 In fact i can't access it at all.=C2= =A0 I have not used Launchpad much either but i do notice that a lot of bug= -reports do get solved.=C2=A0=20 Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Gianfranco Costamagna (costamagnagianfranco) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 13:27:16 -0000 Message-Id: <20120124132716.2573.89441.malone@soybean.canonical.com> @Tom you are right, but I have to tell you that the ubuntu way should be sometimes more like borg unimatrix. Sometimes bugs has patches but nobody takes care to put the patch in the pa= ckage and release the updated version. After submitting a patch you have to wait months before the patch is revise= d and accepted. I personally think more forces should be provided in the bug hunting and maybe less in developing program. just my opinion Locutus --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 14:02:14 -0000 Message-Id: <1327413734.58926.YahooMailClassic@web24106.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) Ouch.=C2=A0 I guess there is already a bug-report about this?=C2=A0 I think= they call it "work-flow"?=C2=A0 It would be great to streamline that proce= ss but there have to be regular freezes in order to make sure releases are = stable.=C2=A0 Hopefully patches should get moved into the relevant package = fairly quickly after the freeze is over.=C2=A0=20 Anyway all this is not really relevant to this bug-report although obviousl= y it has been a legitimate tangent.=C2=A0=20 Regards from Tom :) --- On Tue, 24/1/12, LocutusOfBorg wrote: From: LocutusOfBorg Subject: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share To: TomDavies04@Yahoo.Co.Uk Date: Tuesday, 24 January, 2012, 13:27 @Tom you are right, but I have to tell you that the ubuntu way should be sometimes more like borg unimatrix. Sometimes bugs has patches but nobody takes care to put the patch in the pa= ckage and release the updated version.=C2=A0=20 After submitting a patch you have to wait months before the patch is revise= d and accepted. I personally think more forces should be provided in the bug hunting and maybe less in developing program. just my opinion Locutus --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: MFauzilkamil Zainuddin (apogee) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:56:39 -0000 Message-Id: <20120128175641.21303.64054.malone@gac.canonical.com> We are working on this for Malaysia market --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Stephen Birch (sgbirch) Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2012 10:20:47 -0000 Message-Id: <20120201102047.19171.23368.malone@wampee.canonical.com> We must be making a small amount of progress with this irritating bug, the BBC just published a report about ubuntu in the mainstream media: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16731071 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Justin Force (justin-force) Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2012 17:22:50 -0000 Message-Id: <20120201172250.7712.40127.malone@gac.canonical.com> This is not a bug. The quality and functionality of Microsoft's products have nothing to do with the quality or functionality of Ubuntu. The notion that market share is a bug is cute, but please explain to me how a feature of another product (a statement beginning "Microsoft has...") is a bug in Ubuntu. Bugs in Ubuntu start with statements like, "Unity crashes when...", "Ubuntu boots slowly because...", "Banshee uses too much memory." If the subject of the bug isn't about Ubuntu, this is not an Ubuntu bug. Maybe this could be restated as, "Ubuntu's market share is too small." --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2012 18:07:50 -0000 Message-Id: <4F297F76.5000800@hal-pc.org> On 02/01/2012 11:22 AM, Justin Force wrote: > ... but please explain to me how > a feature of another product (a statement beginning "Microsoft has...") > is a bug in Ubuntu. When one company has a totally dominant position, it creates barriers to=20 entry for other players. In this case, since Windows is the dominant=20 player, many vendors create drivers, software, and websites that are=20 only compatible with or tested against Windows. For example, look at=20 network attached DVRs. Many of them are based on Linux, but you can not=20 use Linux to view them as they require a Windows only plugin to decrypt=20 the stream. Think of this as an upstream bug that we can not fix directly. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2012 19:00:23 -0000 Message-Id: <1328122823.50526.YahooMailClassic@web24108.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) It's not just an Ubuntu problem.=C2=A0 It's a "unix-based desktop platform"= although some drivers do get written by manufacturers for Apple hardware.= =C2=A0 Hmm, given the history of drivers written by manufacturers it might = be an advantage that unix-based platforms need to reverse engineer and then= re-write drivers.=C2=A0 A lot of work though.=C2=A0=20 Regards from Tom :) --- On Wed, 1/2/12, Justin Force <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: Maybe this could be restated as, "Ubuntu's market share is too small." --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2012 19:51:01 -0000 Message-Id: > > given the history of drivers written by manufacturers it might be an > advantage that unix-based platforms need to reverse engineer and then > re-write drivers. Exactly. Take ANDROID as an example - it's #1 mobile (rapidly growing and therefore extremely interesting market) platform, so the driver code has to be at least just as "good" as it is for Winblow$ on the desktop. I've read some SAMSUCK and BROADCOM sources for my cell phone and believe me when I say that we're infinitely better off the way we are because the code that hardware/device vendors keep spewing when left at home alone is (euphemistically put) THE WORST CRAP EVER; unless they aim for mainline inclusion where Linus beats them to their senses whenever they try shoving some half-baked crap down his throat. That's where the whole anti-blob mind set comes from - just looking under the hood almost makes you wanna throw up; no wonder it causes all kinds of clusterfucks all the time. Not to mention that it allows them to force you into buying the same stuff over and over by simply depriving you of updates whenever they see fit. A lot of work though. Yeah, but it's a work that definitely pays off in the long run. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: haydoni (andyhayden1) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 17:10:05 -0000 Message-Id: I'm writing this with tears in my eyes, my family and I came down here to Madrid,Spain for a short vacation,unfortunately we were mugged at the park of the hotel where we stayed all cash,credit card and mobile phone were stolen off us but luckily we still have our passports with us. We've been to the Embassy and the Police here but they're not helping issues at all the bad news is our flight will be leaving in less than 8-hrs from now but we're having problems settling the hotel bills and the hotel manager won't let us leave until we settle the bills. Am freaked out at the moment! I'll need your help (LOAN) financially. I promise to make the refund once we get back home. Please let me know if you can help and i need you to keep checking your email because it's the only i can reach you. andy hayden --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 17:31:04 -0000 Message-Id: <1329413464.36667.YahooMailClassic@web24107.mail.ird.yahoo.com> First time i got this spam it was someone allegedly stuck in Wales.=C2=A0 There were some contact details on that one.=C2=A0 Honestly, people can't even get spam right these days! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 17:37:39 -0000 Message-Id: <4F3D3EE3.7010902@hal-pc.org> Kind of a perfect example of the problem with a monoculture. Easy=20 hacking... Yes, it can happen with anything, but it is easier if you=20 only have to learn one method. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Gianfranco Costamagna (costamagnagianfranco) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 17:44:06 -0000 Message-Id: <20120216174406.28687.752.malone@soybean.canonical.com> can somebody please delete the previous comment? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1600 I really don't like so much spam http://www.snopes.com/fraud/distress/family.asp --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 19:46:20 -0000 Message-Id: <1329421580.40776.YahooMailClassic@web24105.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) Yes, now i think about it i got the London one.=C2=A0 I got stuck in London= a few times and had a great time even once sleeping rough in Regent's Park= in the snow, well a few yards away from the snow tbh.=C2=A0 A couple of ti= mes i ended up in weird gigs i would never have gone to and once at a party= where i knew no-one.=C2=A0 I'm usually pretty shy so i found the party har= d to cope with.=C2=A0=20 Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: turbolad (turbolad995) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 13:06:36 -0000 Message-Id: <20120223130636.16435.54061.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Have the Ubuntu team considered trialling the newest Unity interface with newbies who have never used or seen Ubuntu before? If Unity can be worked on, made faster and stop it conflicting with Wine (Unity makes Wine run *very* slow, GNOME does not), I think Ubuntu will have a better chance of succeeding. Also consider that Ubuntu is generally used as a second operating system, with Microsoft Windows kept for things that don't run in Ubuntu e.g. Nokia Ovi Suite. This is why Unity needs to be faster, because Ubuntu is usually installed on older computers when people buy newer ones with Windows 7. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 14:45:13 -0000 Message-Id: On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 14:06, turbolad <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Have the Ubuntu team considered trialling the newest Unity interface > with newbies who have never used or seen Ubuntu before? I am tired of the focus winning the dummy users. The reality is: Nobody is giving Ubuntu (or other Linux distro) any chance or any try if there are not peole in the near (in most cases physical neighbourhood required) who can help out. And in most cases it's the people around that push others to try it. As far as I can see at least in Austria and Germany the very major Ubuntu/Linux user base is in IT business and those are the multiplying factor and an important base of the community (as they are doing the mostly free support). Loose them (the IT folks and such power users) and you loose all! - This should be my major message at this point! Unfortunately a big portion of IT and such power users are not satisfied with Unity. I personally do prefer Unity over Gnome 3 and I understand Mark's decision going a different direction. On the other hand there are many other environments - e.g. XFCE - why not contribute there instead of starting over at zero? - I need to do a lot of testing and I assume that I have to expect problems (e.g. NXClient and Server which even non-power-users use - of course I installed and configured it for them) as the client does not offer unity as choice when connecting to the server). > If Unity can be > worked on, made faster and stop it conflicting with Wine (Unity makes > Wine run *very* slow, GNOME does not), I think Ubuntu will have a better > chance of succeeding. Personally I use Wine in the one and only case of TeamViewer (because the Linux version ships with it's own version of it). I do not have any further use of Wine. For Windows crap that I need to use I have a VirtualBox running. From my point of view, those who want to game should either use the Linux games available or should buy an X-Box (which I consider quite similar to any other Windows version ;-) ). I never installed a dual boot so far as for me it does not make any sense. Thanks for mentioning possible issues - so I have to test that as well in an intensive manner (puhh - a lot of work waiting). > Also consider that Ubuntu is generally used as a second operating > system, with Microsoft Windows kept for things that don't run in Ubuntu > e.g. Nokia Ovi Suite. Who nowadays cares about the Nokia suite? - Switch to an Android phone! While you consider Ubuntu as second OS, I use it as my primary OS since 2009 even at work under several conditions everywhere having Windows around me. I need a stable and reliable OS that operates well everywhere. With a very few exceptions everything works well. However, after 9.04, 9.10 and 10.04 I have seen reduced stability and hence I am still on 10.04. I really need a stable 12.04 - and I hope it will be! > This is why Unity needs to be faster, because > Ubuntu is usually installed on older computers when people buy newer > ones with Windows 7. Unity needs to be at least faster than Windows 7/8 on _recent_ machines because otherwise I get laughed by the Windows users sitting next to me. On older machines I install Xubuntu or Lubuntu anyway because they are much more lightweight. On my primary machine I don't need just speed, I also need features - where e.g. Lubuntu falls too short for me (YMMV). Best regards, Martin. --=20 Martin Wildam http://sites.google.com/site/mwildam/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 16:20:44 -0000 Message-Id: <1330014044.87891.YahooMailClassic@web24106.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) As i understand it the Unity interface has something crucial or at least mo= re easily implemented than other UIs.=C2=A0 Touchscreen.=C2=A0 Unity can ca= tch-up with what power-users want later.=C2=A0 It also offers more opportun= ities for revolutionising the UI in ways other UIs could never hope for.=C2= =A0=20 Quite whether it will pan out that way is a different story but i would rat= her start out where Gnome 3 is than end-up there with no way of moving forw= ards and no flexibility.=C2=A0=20 Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:28:25 -0000 Message-Id: <4F467739.7060106@hal-pc.org> On 02/23/2012 10:20 AM, Tom wrote: >Unity can catch-up with what power-users want later. This is the big mistake. Power users are your base, and a lot of them=20 HATE Unity and Gnome 3. Many of us have halted on 10.04, or have moved=20 to XFCE, or KDE (now unsupported...) and these people are no longer able=20 to help with questions. I know that in my case I stoped contributing in=20 the newbie forums when my only answer to every post was "Roll back to=20 Gnome 2." --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 18:19:58 -0000 Message-Id: <1330021198.43759.YahooMailClassic@web24105.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) True.=C2=A0 I don't think this path would have been chosen if there had bee= n any choice about it.=C2=A0 I think we had 2 choices 1. stick with Gnome which had no touchscreen support and no intention of bu= ilding that in any-time in the next few years plus watch Gnome=20 1.a) Watch Gnome head towards where Unity is now 1.b) copy Mint's idea of developing a "plugin" for gnome3 to make it look m= ore like gnome2, with an ever increasing amount of work to keep the plugin = working 2. Find something else that did have touchscreen support (or could develop it fairly easily) and was willing to be developed in a direction that might gain a larger user-share I think both the Gnome project and the Ubuntu project failed to work together in a mutually beneficial way apparently causing perfectly reasonable and justifiable ire on both sides.=C2=A0 I don't follow the relevant threads and i am not invoved with either project so please forgive me if i have got it all wrong.=C2=A0 I'm just giving my own impression as i squint from the distant side-lines.=C2=A0 Ubuntu has taken a hefty beating over this and has dropped from the 1st place position it has occupied for many many years in the opinion polls that i do occasionally glance at (at DistroWatch).=C2=A0 Mint chose option = 1b which gives us all at least 1 possible place to go in the short-term but it's an untenable position so hopefully Ubuntu's position will prove best in the longer-term as i would like to return to it if i am ever 'forced' to go to another member of the same family or perhaps even give Mageia or something for a try for a year or so.=C2=A0 Don't forget that support for the 10.04 LTS lasts until at least 2013, April so if the 12.04 LTS is not what we would hope then we still have a year more after that.=C2=A0 Also while many of us had a bit of a nightmare moving from Windows to Ubuntu it is much easier to move between different distros, especially if they are in the same family.=C2=A0 Even on= es in different families are less of a stretch than between say Xp and Vista or Win7 in my opinion.=C2=A0 Back when Ubuntu first started Gnome probably wasn't as great as it was just before Gnome 3 arrived.=C2=A0 Things move forwards.=C2=A0 Unity will m= ove forwards i am sure.=C2=A0 Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 18:43:10 -0000 Message-Id: <1330022590.83066.YahooMailClassic@web24105.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) Hmmm, that was all a bit negative.=C2=A0 Ubuntu is still about the only dis= tro reaching the mainstream press and it's a fairly huge community with ton= s of new people arriving all the time.=C2=A0 I don't think i will really be= leaving it anytime soon and my original plan of installing the 10.04 on al= l the machines at work was to stick with it regardless of what happened wit= h the 6 monthlies.=C2=A0 So really i am just a bit bemused by the sudden ch= anges as they don't affect me at all and i just keep on using Ubuntu. Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: turbolad (turbolad995) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 21:19:18 -0000 Message-Id: <20120223211918.16230.83634.malone@wampee.canonical.com> I believe Unity can be made faster and bugs fixed, such as the problem of Unity making Wine malfunction. In the "real world", Windows has the monopoly because too many apps and games have been developed only for Windows. Now that mobile devices and tablets are popular, Microsoft now have to compete for the first time in about 20 years! Unity is obviously being designed for tablets etc - but don't forget that users still have desktop computers with keyboards and mice. Some users will still rely on certain Windows apps and that's why Wine exists. In the real world, moving from Windows to Ubuntu is not a simple snap. There will be issues and I always recommend keeping a Windows installation around "just in case" you have something like a hardware device or critical program that can only run in Windows - I DON'T mean Windows in VirtualBox. In such cases, Ubuntu can be used for regular web browsing and so on, but the Windows computer can be used ONLY when needed. Finally, I wish Ubuntu would advertise with glossy marketing. That's how American companies like Apple become very successful. People buy iPads - NOT because they NEED them - but as a result clever MARKETING that makes people want iPads. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 22:06:46 -0000 Message-Id: On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 17:20, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > As i understand it the Unity interface has something crucial or at least = more easily implemented than > other UIs.=C2=A0 Touchscreen. Could be - have seen impressing videos with Ubuntu on the Phone. However, > Unity can catch-up with what power-users want later.=C2=A0 It also offers= more opportunities for > revolutionising the UI in ways other UIs could never hope for. I hope that I don't have to wait too long for the things I require... On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 18:28, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > On 02/23/2012 10:20 AM, Tom wrote: >>Unity can catch-up with what power-users want later. > This is the big mistake. Power users are your base, and a lot of them > HATE Unity and Gnome 3. I do not hate Unity - I find a lot of plus but also a lot of minus. From my point of view Canonical was too early setting Unity as default. > Many of us have halted on 10.04, or have moved > to XFCE, or KDE (now unsupported...) and these people are no longer able > to help with questions. I know that in my case I stoped contributing in > the newbie forums when my only answer to every post was "Roll back to > Gnome 2." Indeed. In my local Ubuntu community most switched to Mint because they try to still offer a Gnome2 look and feel (which IMHO is of course only possible with some quirks), some switched to a completely different distribution or on the way doing so. I personally do not want to leave Ubuntu because from what I have seen yet, Ubuntu so far did the best job in my opinion. Of course there are big challenges today. On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 19:19, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > True. I don't think this path would have been chosen if there had been a= ny choice about it. I think we had 2 choices > 1. stick with Gnome which had no touchscreen support and no intention of = building that in any-time in the next few years plus watch Gnome > 1.a) Watch Gnome head towards where Unity is now > 1.b) copy Mint's idea of developing a "plugin" for gnome3 to make it look= more like gnome2, with an ever increasing amount of work to keep the plugi= n working > > 2. Find something else that did have touchscreen support (or could > develop it fairly easily) and was willing to be developed in a direction > that might gain a larger user-share It's not only about the touch-screen stuff - even just looking at the desktop, I find Gnome 3 failing in a similar way that when KDE did their last major release update. > Mint chose option 1b > which gives us all at least 1 possible place to go in the short-term but > it's an untenable position so hopefully Ubuntu's position will prove > best in the longer-term Yes, I also think, that Ubuntu has chosen the better path for the longer term! > Don't forget that support for the 10.04 LTS lasts until at least 2013, > April so if the 12.04 LTS is not what we would hope then we still have a > year more after that. Probably I should consider sticking a little longer to 10.04 - but I did not have a look at 12.04 so far, so that is the first step for me! Be it only to contribute with testing! Best regards, Martin. --=20 Martin Wildam http://sites.google.com/site/mwildam/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 00:04:12 -0000 Message-Id: Actually most basic users hate unity to, its just simply bad for desktop us= age. It may be great for Ubuntu TV or pads. But not for desktop users. > Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:28:25 +0000 > From: 1@bugs.launchpad.net > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > On 02/23/2012 10:20 AM, Tom wrote: > >Unity can catch-up with what power-users want later. >=20 > This is the big mistake. Power users are your base, and a lot of them=20 > HATE Unity and Gnome 3. Many of us have halted on 10.04, or have moved=20 > to XFCE, or KDE (now unsupported...) and these people are no longer able = > to help with questions. I know that in my case I stoped contributing in = > the newbie forums when my only answer to every post was "Roll back to=20 > Gnome 2." >=20 > --=20 > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >=20 > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: > New > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in The Linux Kernel: > New > Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: > In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > New > Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu Gnome Remix Metapackages: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: > Invalid > Status in Arch Linux: > New > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New >=20 > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >=20 > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full > potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >=20 > Steps to repeat: >=20 > 1. Visit a local PC store. >=20 > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-i= nstalled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >=20 > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software lik= e Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features an= d benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >=20 > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 07:02:53 -0000 Message-Id: <1330066973.15291.YahooMailClassic@web24101.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) Yes, i assumed that people here do test-drive a release before really comme= nting on it, even if it's only as briefly as my trial-runs of 11.10 and Min= t.=C2=A0 LiveCds and virtual machines or even a LiveCd on a vm are soo easy= and tempting that i can't imagine not trying a new release of favourite di= stros.=C2=A0=20 Now that i think about it like that i wonder if the different paths taken by Ubuntu and Mint were deliberate and coordinated.=C2=A0 Previously i have assumed that they chose different paths at roughly the same time by coincidence and that Mint chose without thinking but now it looks too convenient that each one takes advantage of a niche left by the other.=C2=A0 I agree that it would be good to see glossy adverts or on television and product placement but those things cost money.=C2=A0 It is far far cheaper = to ring up a local reporter and get a full article in the local or even national newspaper (or even a magazine if you are really good at this and get lucky) with far more surface-area giving more information.=C2=A0 Ideally about 1 article per month is about what it takes before people start to vaguely notice.=C2=A0 The trick is to not give the full story all = at once the first time so that you have another angle for them to cover next-time.=C2=A0 Note that "Document Freedom Day" is coming up in March so perhaps an articl= e about that focusing on LibreOffice with perhaps a mention of Google-docs,= OpenOffice, Calligra/KOffice, AbiWord&Gnumeric.=C2=A0=20 Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 23:10:45 -0000 Message-Id: Tablets and phones popular? They have less then 4% usage share which makes = OS X more popular. And no they don't even have that because there are also = SmartTV and a lot of other usages of Android included in those 4%. > Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 21:19:18 +0000 > From: 1@bugs.launchpad.net > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > Subject: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > I believe Unity can be made faster and bugs fixed, such as the problem > of Unity making Wine malfunction. >=20 > In the "real world", Windows has the monopoly because too many apps and > games have been developed only for Windows. Now that mobile devices and > tablets are popular, Microsoft now have to compete for the first time in > about 20 years! Unity is obviously being designed for tablets etc - but > don't forget that users still have desktop computers with keyboards and > mice. Some users will still rely on certain Windows apps and that's why > Wine exists. >=20 > In the real world, moving from Windows to Ubuntu is not a simple snap. > There will be issues and I always recommend keeping a Windows > installation around "just in case" you have something like a hardware > device or critical program that can only run in Windows - I DON'T mean > Windows in VirtualBox. In such cases, Ubuntu can be used for regular > web browsing and so on, but the Windows computer can be used ONLY when > needed. >=20 > Finally, I wish Ubuntu would advertise with glossy marketing. That's > how American companies like Apple become very successful. People buy > iPads - NOT because they NEED them - but as a result clever MARKETING > that makes people want iPads. >=20 > --=20 > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >=20 > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: > New > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in The Linux Kernel: > New > Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: > In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > New > Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu Gnome Remix Metapackages: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: > Invalid > Status in Arch Linux: > New > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New >=20 > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >=20 > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full > potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >=20 > Steps to repeat: >=20 > 1. Visit a local PC store. >=20 > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-i= nstalled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >=20 > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software lik= e Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features an= d benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >=20 > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 23:42:42 -0000 Message-Id: On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 00:10, Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Tablets and phones popular? They have less then 4% usage share which make= s OS X more popular. > And no they don't even have that because there are also SmartTV and a lot= of other usages of Android > included in those 4%. All those mobile and touch devices are good for consuming, but for production (writing, statistics, sound or photo editing, software development and many more) these devices are very suboptimal! --=20 Martin Wildam http://sites.google.com/site/mwildam/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 23:48:57 -0000 Message-Id: FYI: From what I have read although Microsoft is slow, they are not completely sleeping: Windows 8 should have the option to fully run from USB stick (like Ubuntu does), should consume by itself less than 300 MB RAM and also should get an app store. --=20 Martin Wildam http://sites.google.com/site/mwildam/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Kyle Hall (pcfreak2-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 15:40:21 -0000 Message-Id: <20120226154021.22471.24048.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> The HHD/SSD should be blank when I buy a new PC. That's the way I think it should be. But PC manufactures want money, and Microsoft will give that to them. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 16:36:27 -0000 Message-Id: > > The HHD/SSD should be blank when I buy a new PC. > > That's the way I think it should be. > Most people have absolutely no idea how computer works, so asking them to install the OS themselves is too much, but *THE LICENSE DEFINITELY HAS TO BE OPTIONAL*, because that way you can either - order the machine *WITH LICENSE* and have it *shipped tramp-stamped with an OEM sticker for the price including cost of the hardware, shippi= ng and handling and the license fees* - order the machine *CLEAN* and have it *shipped with a blank drive for the price including to the cost of the hardware, shipping and handling* Nobody gets hurt - except M$ stranglehold on the industry. Unlike in the current situation where *M$ taxes almost everyone* buying a new computer - *INCLUDING THE OWNERS OF RETAIL LICENSES*. That just ain't right. Not to mention legal - as demonstrated by anyone who ever sued for refund. But PC manufactures want money, and Microsoft will give that to them. Exactly. M$ absolutely loves to maintain their monopoly by bribery, extortion and intimidation. Remember OLPC and OOXML? And that's just a few notable cases from the top of my head. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Terry (terry-kryogenic) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 01:04:58 -0000 Message-Id: <20120227010458.23563.41562.malone@gac.canonical.com> "Most people have absolutely no idea how computer works, so asking them to install the OS themselves is too much, but *THE LICENSE DEFINITELY HAS TO BE OPTIONAL*, because that way you can either" I agree, or at least simply have the option to say no thanks. This is the way it should be but I see little about anyone doing anything about it. The OFTC for instance apparently receive very few complaints about this so are not bothered. I've recently had to pay Microsoft tax when I purchased a new laptop because my PC went pop, I had no real choice in the matter except not buy a new PC. I tried to buy one without but I get blank looks in the stores and calling Dell for instance lead me nowhere but into an argument about consumer rights (the lack of). Just annoys that I have paid for something I will never use or even look at and I can't do anything about it short of a small claims case which is just a waste of everyone's time anyway. To be honest, as much the GNU/Linux community alone feels large, it's just not big enough to make our respective authorities change the rules just that little bit to make a difference. Anyway, I look forward to the day this bug gets fixed and see a level playing field= for once. Thanks Ubuntu! :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?q?Andr=C3=A9_Desgualdo_Pereira_=28desgua=29?= Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 04:19:25 -0000 Message-Id: <20120227041925.24364.59285.malone@gac.canonical.com> Just to remember that there are vendors who sell computers without Windows like http://system76.com/ , http://www.zareason.com/ for USA and http://www.malibal.com/ which delivery internationally (I've got one). Also here is more suggestions: http://askubuntu.com/questions/32152/who- makes-laptops-for-ubuntu/32157#32157 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 06:33:55 -0000 Message-Id: On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 02:04, Terry <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > I had no real choice in > the matter except not buy a new PC. I tried to buy one without but I get > blank looks in the stores and calling Dell for instance lead me nowhere > but into an argument about consumer rights (the lack of). Sometimes I had to insist a little to get to the right persons but in general I have no problems with Dell getting a clean machine or one with Ubuntu on it. And the local service here in Austria is awesome. I only buy Dell any more. On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 05:19, Andr=C3=A9 Desgualdo Pereira wrote: > Just to remember that there are vendors who sell computers without > Windows like http://system76.com/ , http://www.zareason.com/ for USA and > http://www.malibal.com/ which delivery internationally (I've got one). > Also here is more suggestions: http://askubuntu.com/questions/32152/who- > makes-laptops-for-ubuntu/32157#32157 They all have limitations on countries they ship to (Austria for example always missing) as far as I have seen and for Malibal I had difficulties to find out and anyway prices are quite high already without shipping - not to mention that on the first page the write that they recommend Windows 7... Best wishes. --=20 Martin Wildam http://sites.google.com/site/mwildam/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 07:42:51 -0000 Message-Id: > > Sometimes I had to insist a little to get to the right persons but > in general I have no problems with Dell getting a clean machine or one wi= th > Ubuntu on it. > That's what I'm talking about - you always have to insist and jump through hoops, so *there's obviously interest that people don't have a free choice or at least nobody knows that they do*. Just to remember that there are vendors who sell computers without Windows > The problem is not finding a vendor who sells computers without mandatory M$ crap, but *the vast majority of vendors having a policy of giving you as much trouble getting the machine you want from them as they possibly can*. not to mention that on the first page the write that they recommend Windows > 7=E2=80=A6 This is both *absolutely disgusting* and *absolutely unacceptable* as it *proves that OEMs can be bought*. *They should be there to sell hardware, not to foist people some third party's software including free advertisement on their web sites*. No wonder you can't get any machine you want free of their crap as they're all in Steve's pocket. If this is not a proof of the M$ monopoly, I don't what is. And that's just a start, because ARM systems with UEFI secure boot are gonna make things a whole lot of easier=E2=80=A6 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 15:52:34 -0000 Message-Id: <4F4BA6C2.8040303@hal-pc.org> On 02/27/2012 01:42 AM, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB wrote: > This is both *absolutely disgusting* and *absolutely unacceptable* as > it *proves that OEMs can be bought*. Of course they can be bought. They are a business, with a mandate to=20 make money. That is the purpose of business. And Windows makes money. Starting with Dell, Windows volume licenses are cheap. One figure is as=20 low as $35. Preloaded trial software product placement is expensive.=20 One figure is $10 per item. So add MS Office, Symantic AntiVirus, and a=20 half dozen games, and you have Windows making about $30 per unit. Now support... People have less support issues WHERE THEY CALL IN TO=20 DELL on Windows. Yes, they have issues all the time, but the call a=20 friend, ask the local geek, or go to Best Buy. Linux has less common=20 support options, so they get more calls. The fact is that for making money, Windows is a better product. Now if=20 Canonical were to work with Crossover office to create a triel version=20 with trial office, they might get a product placement package for OEMs=20 to include. Make Linux profitable for a business, and it will use it. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Cariaga (mzc) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 16:32:31 -0000 Message-Id: There are places like Vancouver,BC,Canada that have a lively community that offers support. But the problem also lays on Ubuntu Pre-installed hardware. We see more people having issues with unrecognized hardware than OS features. Also there are a subset of people that think running ubuntu on e.g. Intel Pentium 3 or Celeron pc's will make them at par with new pc's. On 2012-02-27 9:01 AM, "houstonbofh" <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > On 02/27/2012 01:42 AM, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB wrote: > > This is both *absolutely disgusting* and *absolutely unacceptable* as > > it *proves that OEMs can be bought*. > > Of course they can be bought. They are a business, with a mandate to > make money. That is the purpose of business. And Windows makes money. > > Starting with Dell, Windows volume licenses are cheap. One figure is as > low as $35. Preloaded trial software product placement is expensive. > One figure is $10 per item. So add MS Office, Symantic AntiVirus, and a > half dozen games, and you have Windows making about $30 per unit. > > Now support... People have less support issues WHERE THEY CALL IN TO > DELL on Windows. Yes, they have issues all the time, but the call a > friend, ask the local geek, or go to Best Buy. Linux has less common > support options, so they get more calls. > > The fact is that for making money, Windows is a better product. Now if > Canonical were to work with Crossover office to create a triel version > with trial office, they might get a product placement package for OEMs > to include. Make Linux profitable for a business, and it will use it. > > -- > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share > > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: > New > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in The Linux Kernel: > New > Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: > In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > New > Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu Gnome Remix Metapackages: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: > Invalid > Status in Arch Linux: > New > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full > potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 16:41:57 -0000 Message-Id: > > Of course they can be bought. They are a business, with a mandate to make > money. That is the purpose of business. And since when does "being a business with a mandate to make money" justify barely legal and ethically unacceptable practices of doing so=E2=81=88 Do y= ou even realize how perverted and dangerous mindset this is=E2=81=88 How on earth i= s it possible that so many people keep coming up with endless list of ridiculous excuses to justify this kind of behaviour=E2=81=88 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 16:47:06 -0000 Message-Id: On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 16:52, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Now support... =C2=A0People have less support issues WHERE THEY CALL IN TO > DELL on Windows. =C2=A0Yes, they have issues all the time, but the call a > friend, ask the local geek, or go to Best Buy. =C2=A0Linux has less common > support options, so they get more calls. Of course I assume it's more the dummy users calling in to support... Which brings us back to: The bigger and more stable user base of Ubuntu is the power user and IT user. The dummy user with no linux geek in the near to help out will quite likely fall back to Windows soon. --=20 Martin Wildam http://sites.google.com/site/mwildam/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 17:39:58 -0000 Message-Id: <1330364398.73416.YahooMailClassic@web24105.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :) I think you meant LibreOffice rather than Crossover office.=C2=A0=20 Support costs are minimal if forums are used.=C2=A0 Organisations such as Canonical and others offer the traditional telephone support and such like.=C2=A0 Often existing support providers might be happier working with Gnu&Linux because it's easier to fix if something does go wrong or maybe they would be less happy because they wouldn't get so many call-outs.=C2=A0 Windows forums and online support tends to be fairly abysmal so it's difficult to get people to trust that sort of support until they see how much better it is for Gnu&Linux.=C2=A0 Gnu&Linux already is more profitable for businesses if they are prepared for initial costs such as installation, set-up, retraining.=C2=A0 Similarly with Macs.=C2=A0 Reports repeatedly show that TCO (=3DTotal Cost of Ownersh= ip (which includes support calls and maintenance)) is all far lower for Macs.=C2=A0 However companies see the higher initial costs and choose the cheaper purchase.=C2=A0 I think it's less about cost and more about ease and familiarity.=C2=A0 If they could just pick-up a machine easily that already had everything they need already installed then they might consider it.=C2=A0 One of the other problems is that when they get discounted Windows they are told the costs.=C2=A0 Say a =C2=A3200 piece of software getting install= ed for just =C2=A335 sounds like they are getting a good bargain.=C2=A0 When peopl= e say this equivalent thing is free they can't cope and have to ask "What is wrong with it that it's not being sold at a much higher cost? " Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:33:37 -0000 Message-Id: <4F4BCC81.8080102@hal-pc.org> On 02/27/2012 11:39 AM, Tom wrote: > Hi :) > I think you meant LibreOffice rather than Crossover office. No, I meant Codeweavers "Crossover" product for sale. (Used to be=20 called Crossover Office) http://www.codeweavers.com/products/crossover/#dl http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxgames/#dl Packaged with another proprietary for sale app or game. As a trial...=20 That way, the publishers pay the OEM to place their app in front of the=20 user. These fees varry, but the OEM can get between $3-$5 for each=20 install, or a significant portion of each activation, or both. This is=20 what Dell does in a big way. (Well, everyone, but Dell is the master)=20 Trial software generates revenue, and revenue is what business listens to. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:39:27 -0000 Message-Id: <4F4BCDDF.6020107@hal-pc.org> On 02/27/2012 11:39 AM, Tom wrote: > One of the other problems is that when they get discounted Windows they > are told the costs. Say a =C2=A3200 piece of software getting installed = for > just =C2=A335 sounds like they are getting a good bargain. When people s= ay > this equivalent thing is free they can't cope and have to ask "What is > wrong with it that it's not being sold at a much higher cost? " Sorry to reply to myself, but I left this out... Windows is less than free for most OEMs. The OEM cost is $35-$90, and=20 the revenue from trial software preinstalled is $50-$150 or more. As a package like this, Windows is cheaper than Linux. This is not Microsoft being evil, this is product placement, and it is=20 only going to grow in the future.=20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_placement In some case, the=20 revenue from trialware is more than 75% of the margin of the entire=20 computer. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 19:39:25 -0000 Message-Id: > > the publishers pay the OEM to place their app in front of the user. Pumping someone's computer full of crap nobody ever asked for - what a gentle and natural way of selling stuff=E2=80=A6 "I took the liberty to dump whatever crap they paid me to all over your system, sir. I'm sure you're gonna love it." this is product placement, and it is only going to grow in the future. > That's just great, because everybody's gotta love getting his "computer" bloated with crapware that is neither needed nor wanted right from the start. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 20:37:57 -0000 Message-Id: <4F4BE9A5.90402@hal-pc.org> On 02/27/2012 01:39 PM, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB wrote: > Pumping someone's computer full of crap nobody ever asked for - what a > gentle and natural way of selling stuff=E2=80=A6 "I took the liberty to d= ump > whatever crap they paid me to all over your system, sir. I'm sure you're > gonna love it." > That's just great, because everybody's gotta love getting his "computer" > bloated with crapware that is neither needed nor wanted right from the > start. To be fair, you can get systems without this. You either pay for them=20 (Dell Vostro and Microsoft "Signature" PCs) or you clean it yourself.=20 (The PC Decrapifier) And not just PCs. Have you taken a flight lately?=20 Talk about adds... But while this is no fun, it is the way it is.=20 Wishing it were otherwise will not change it. If we want the basement=20 brands to carry Linux, we have to give them a financial reason to do so. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 20:52:50 -0000 Message-Id: I really had a lot of discussions, read a lot of threads and pro and contra Windows-Linux. My conclusions: - Windows is less secure (viruses, time to fix issues after they got discovered, architecture) - Windows is less reliable regarding stability (for Ubuntu if you have chosen the right hardware it works, for Windows - although everybody is developing drivers for it - there are still problems with drivers now and then but the most stability problems are from the software in the way that software A is ruining software B and vice versa. - I can't customize Windows as I want my computer to work. People have different jobs and different style to work - and different focus. Hence there are different requirements. Windows is simply not that flexible. That were the major reasons for me to switch - and it was a hard step for me - not only because it was the first time in my history that I had a system I could not program. Best regards, Martin. --=20 Martin Wildam http://sites.google.com/site/mwildam/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Terry (terry-kryogenic) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 15:30:17 -0000 Message-Id: <20120228153017.27050.98419.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> But it all comes down to choice, and where's the choice where it's not poss= ible for us to buy from those few that offer Microsoft free PC's? We shoul= d have the right to choose if we want Windows or not whether we use Windows= or some form of GNU/Linux.=20 Basically, Windows needs to be separated as a product (because it is) to th= e PC it is normally bundled with, even if the default is to have Windows bu= ndled with the PC to satisfy the people who do not like choice, it should b= e possible to not have it at all. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Cariaga (mzc) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 16:37:43 -0000 Message-Id: Unfortunately, the major sellers are partners with Microsoft. There is choice in north America but no effective sales channels compared to best buy. On 2012-02-28 8:36 AM, "Terry" <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > But it all comes down to choice, and where's the choice where it's not > possible for us to buy from those few that offer Microsoft free PC's? We > should have the right to choose if we want Windows or not whether we use > Windows or some form of GNU/Linux. > Basically, Windows needs to be separated as a product (because it is) to > the PC it is normally bundled with, even if the default is to have Windows > bundled with the PC to satisfy the people who do not like choice, it shou= ld > be possible to not have it at all. > > -- > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share > > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: > New > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in The Linux Kernel: > New > Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: > In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > New > Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu Gnome Remix Metapackages: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: > Invalid > Status in Arch Linux: > New > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full > potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 17:34:59 -0000 Message-Id: On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 17:37, mzc <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Unfortunately, the major sellers are partners with Microsoft. =C2=A0There= is > choice in north America but no effective sales channels compared to best > buy. Yep, there were a few days when Dell did marketing for Ubuntu - suddenly stopped again. The thought that came to my mind was: Probably Microsoft told them something like: "Stop this or the Windows licenses will become a lot more expensive for you." - And of course as more people ask for Windows... Best regards, Martin. --=20 Martin Wildam http://martin.wildam.org/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 20:06:20 -0000 Message-Id: This is actually not much of a problem if it is good bundlings. Such as a d= ecent appstore... and Ubuntu already have a semi-decent appstore... and noo= ne would complain much about a preinstalled WoW client and so on... not tha= t such exist for Linux yet... Make OEM:s able to share some of the profits from the software that can be purchased within Ubuntu, and that may be payment enough. Also search result revenue etc could be shared in some way. > > the publishers pay the OEM to place their app in front of the user. >=20 > Pumping someone's computer full of crap nobody ever asked for - what a > gentle and natural way of selling stuff=E2=80=A6 "I took the liberty to d= ump > whatever crap they paid me to all over your system, sir. I'm sure you're > gonna love it." >=20 > this is product placement, and it is only going to grow in the future. > > > That's just great, because everybody's gotta love getting his "computer" > bloated with crapware that is neither needed nor wanted right from the > start. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: David L. Craig (dlc) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 08:02:08 -0000 Message-Id: <20120306080208.2124.3369.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> Towards Resolving Bug 1: Microsoft Has A Majority Marketshare -- Presenting A Template As An RFC Allow me to submit the following document I just completed as part of fixing a friend's XP-HE laptop for give-away to someone else as an informal RFC that may be refined into a tool to help this bug finally get resolved. The new owner will be getting this in hardcopy with the disks it mentions when he picks it up. It is meant to be viewed in a fixed font. If you believe deploying something like it the next time you return a Microsoft system someone has begged you to fix, please, change it as needed and pass it on without attribution--make it as personally composed for the recipient as you can for the best chance of turning on the light within. Some details have been converted into _Template_Fields_ in this version to maintain the confidentiality of the original as well as help you tailor it for your not-quite-ready-for-prime-time sysadmin. Let the ideas for improving it come forth. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 09:46:40 -0000 Message-Id: <1331027200.18027.YahooMailClassic@web24102.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi :)For documentation, artworks, photos and other non-software stuff you m= ight be interested in these copyleft agreements. http://creativecommons.org/licenses/ Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alberto Salvia Novella (es20490446e) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 13:26:58 -0000 Message-Id: <20120306132658.11263.37945.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Pecise quality can be critical to this bug to be solved, since many people who's not using Ubuntu is because being sometimes buggy and having a non polished interface. With this Long Term Support edition Unity is so much better than before, and we have a great oportunity to make an all-rounded operating system. The point here is to make in-deep beta testing, so lets make this project a reality now. Regards --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Ramchandra Apte (ramchandra.apte) Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2012 05:10:44 -0000 Message-Id: <20120308051044.9408.73462.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> I wish we had ads about Ubuntu. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Fabien Basmaison (fabien.basmaison) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 12:41:52 -0000 Message-Id: <4F5C9D90.8060403@arkhi.org> There is :) http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/03/ubuntu-ads-start-appearing-online/ Le 08/03/2012 13:10, mani and ram a =C3=A9crit : > I wish we had ads about Ubuntu. Fabien Basmaison --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 01:04:23 -0000 Message-Id: After an afternoon of testing desktop environments (with the Ubuntu 12.04 beta 1 installation as base) I want to mention the following (as a power user at home and work): Unity won. Yes, I am still missing things and found some small bugs, but it took me far less time to configure the missing to get started working efficiently. It took me a while after giving up on trying to add a "mouse hotkey" (left edge + Button 3) for switching to virtual desktop on the left (previous) - but I found a workaround using the bottom edge with Button 1 and 3 for virtual desktop navigation with the mouse (3 clicks to switch desktop is definitely too much as it is on default Unity environment). That aside there are keyboard hotkeys and mouse actions put quite efficiently. I also tried classic Gnome with AWN or Cairo-Dock instead of Unity but was not as stable and anyway stuff missing I wanted to have so came back to Unity. --=20 Martin Wildam http://martin.wildam.org/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 14:29:21 -0000 Message-Id: I just stumbled upon one of ESR 's articles which suggests that GNU/Linux is extremely unlikely to gain any significant desktop presence in our lifetime. Read itand weep. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?TMOqIEtp4bq/biBUcsO6YyAobGUta2llbi10cnVjKQ==?= Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 14:53:09 -0000 Message-Id: <20120316145309.4206.44530.malone@wampee.canonical.com> In Vietnam now a day, many of Laptop has ubuntu preinstalled. Just because Microsoft prevent PC store to install trial Windows on the product. And I'm very happy that now they are displayed with ubuntu --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: norberto (netcaster) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:47:57 -0000 Message-Id: <20120320144757.15471.96681.malone@gac.canonical.com> Workaround: It's your choice, you can buy an old, expensive and inefficient Windows V8 or take a ride for free in a modern, fast and eco Ubuntu LTS 2012. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: crippled user (saddharmap) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:15:08 -0000 Message-Id: <20120325201508.27120.24529.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> "Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix." This is a very nice sentiment and one that was valid until myself and others test drove 12.04 beta. Basic Disability Accessibility features needed to even test drive the CD seem to be deprecated - don't function and those that supposedly do function either break the Unity Desktop - or make it unusable. It is a spectacular Own Goal - and quite disgraceful. The situation is so poor and discriminatory that it prevents disabled people from taking part in testing and bug reporting - and even being able to report bugs on accessibility. That itself is direct discrimination. The matter has been checked against 10.04 through 11.10 which all worked correctly and allowed valid and utile access as live CD and as full install. 12.04 fails both. It would appear that basic Disability Accessibility has been thrown out in the dash to Unity and some future dream of Ubuntu on tablets retailed in China! It is alarming to see that compliance with basic protocols and standards of Accessibility seem to have been sacrificed and are not addressed. Short cuts to use them are even still there - but greyed out and inaccessible! Bug report filed under #964685 "Failed disability accessibility standards - 12.04 - Live CD & Installed". I note that bugs addressing disability accessibility issues remain unaddressed for years! I fully expect this more recent report to also be ignored for as long. I am no lover of certain none Linux operating systems and have been a promoter of Ubuntu for over 5 years. However, if this disgraceful state of affairs concerning Disability Access and Accessibility is not addressed promptly and fully resolved it will be the end. Other operating systems seem to have recently also started beta testing in their version 8 - and the accessibility options and requirements there are met. That is why so many Public and Private sector providers use them - it prevents litigation risk from poor quality and dysfunctional software which causes both direct and indirect Disability Discrimination. They simply will not be able to risk using Ubuntu 12.04. It may be of interest to consider that there are 1 Billion recognised Disabled people on planet earth. Ubuntu 12.04, in it's present discriminatory form, is an insult to all of them. Ubuntu is reported to mean -"I am what I am because of who we all are.". Ubuntu 12.04 means "WE are all disabled because Ubuntu 12.04 disables disabled people even more than before." That is not the way to promote a replacement for pay software and operating systems - it simply reinforces their monopoly. I have contacted Canonical directly in an attempt to have matters highlighted - and still await contact by return. It seems that no-one there has oversight or responsibility - a rather large oversight in itself. It would seem that there is a focus upon snippets of code - but Code and Protocol which even pre-dates Ubuntu defining larger issues such as compliance with standards and even legal obligations is not a feature of Ubuntu anymore! 12.04 is proof of that. Ubuntu is now not designed to fix any bug - only promote other operating systems as good risk management - and even provides Public Relations Kudos and opportunity free of charge to the supposed bugs it set out to fix! Such a pity - and such a mess! Well Done - NOT! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:09:06 -0000 Message-Id: <1332796146.42801.YahooMailClassic@web171003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hi :) +1 I agree that we seem to have taken a step backwards and can only hope that= it means taking 2 steps forwards soon as a result. Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:38:00 -0000 Message-Id: On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 23:09, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > I agree that we seem to have taken a step backwards =C2=A0and can only ho= pe that it > means taking 2 steps forwards soon as a result. > Regards from Don't know for handicapped people, but after changing a little the settings and tweaking at two places, I do now prefer Unity over Kubuntu, Xubuntu and Lubuntu (tested them all). At least with the least tweaking I get close to working highly efficient. I hope there is a chance to get the features for disabled people well integrated into Unity. BTW: There is one little damn thing which I find very annoying: While I find it totally cool to activate the last active window of that type when clicking on the terminal launcher after having the browser active and vice versa - there shouldn't be the other windows of the same type also brought to front. Usually one switches between several windows of the same type or between the same two windows of different type. And I would desire a gnome menu button on the Unity launcher bar optionally - sometimes I would prefer that over searching in Dash. But after all the arguing against Unity since it was started - I need to say that it's getting there where I can be really satisfied with it. Really hope that disabled people could get also some increased productivity. Best regards and thanks for all the brave programmers, Martin. --=20 Martin Wildam http://martin.wildam.org/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Christian Brandt (brandtc) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 18:34:50 -0000 Message-Id: <20120331183450.4400.31530.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Most people do not care what Operating System they are using as long as it is the same they used before. Honestly, I have some customers who stifly refuse to abandon Windows98SE and Outlook 2000 and which are eager to discuss every single change of a button as an ultimate reason for not changing their OS, no matter the alternatives. These people are obviously unable to rationalize their own needs. I suggest to increase overall intelect of the human race as smart people usually quickly see the benefits of open software. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 19:36:36 -0000 Message-Id: On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 20:34, Christian Brandt wrote: > Honestly, I have some customers who stifly refuse to abandon Windows98SE > and Outlook 2000 and which are eager to discuss every single change of a > button as an ultimate reason for not changing their OS, no matter the > alternatives. If Ubuntu would go for those people, I would worry. - Honestly I don't care of such people you describe. I have to use a computer on a day-to-day base and I need to get my work done as efficient as possible. Satisfy those people and improve for new users also for the simple reason that there are also for me tasks that I do once in a month or so and from one to the next time I forget how it's done and have to discover for new. Best regards, Martin. --=20 Martin Wildam http://martin.wildam.org/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: vekotin (ve-kotin) Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2012 13:27:09 -0000 Message-Id: <20120407132709.18383.97961.malone@wampee.canonical.com> So why don't ubuntu-, linux- and open source -communities do anything to offer better products? I think that by dividing into masses of distros and not working more together, caused that very own problem of linux. linux- and open source -communities shoult take a look at themselves with a mirror, and stop blaming others of problems of their very own. That would be the only solution and way to better success, to make better linux-products. I have seen during last years, how same problems exists again and again with ubuntu releases. It is shameles to see them exist that way. I have laptop that is among the most sold laptops in the world and every ubuntu release has problems with it, mostly same problems again and again. Then those problems are solved within some months after release, but still, that Windows-world does that much much better. And moreover, some things work in Fedora and openSUSE - and not in ubuntu, so how on earth open source can't make that open source thing work in reality? So, market share of Windows isn't the problems. Problems is the lack of real as good alternatives, made by really good co-work. Aim must be good alternatives, not just amount of alternatives. And ubuntu's Unity has been a huge mess - much bigger mess than Vista ever did. I have always wondered, how free hobby work can aim to be professional. Within these ubuntu years I have seen, that hobby work really can't be so professional. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: vekotin (ve-kotin) Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2012 13:44:12 -0000 Message-Id: <20120407134412.3361.31757.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> Btw why don't ubuntu community demand free computers, so free hardware too?= =20 Why is it just that operanting system and software that are demanded to be = free?=20 Operating system and software is the sould of computers, so at least I think that they are more valuable product of good work than just hardware. I appreciate good work. I would even willing to pay for example 10 euros of ubuntu, so of really good ubuntu, if such would exist. Those licenses of Windows in preinstalled machines cost only 5-15% of the price of those ready to use computers. That isn't bad price at all of that all value. I think that instead of putting that all energy in developing Unity, canoni= cal would had been wiser to develop better graphical interface for majority= users, so for those "normal users" to cope with ubuntu.=20 And to participate in projects that develop genome and kde. canonical got b= lind focusing so much, again, in something like unity, that doesn't give so= much benefit after all - compared to the work with it. canonical forgot th= e users again and worshipped the product itself. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Dave Stroud (bigdavesr) Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2012 14:14:04 -0000 Message-Id: I just installed a new nvidia geforce video card on my system. When I rebooted I got a blank screen. I searched the forums and found a solution that fixed it within a few hours. On the other hand, the last time I ran Windows,I bought a new printer that sat unused and gathered dust for 3 months before I found a driver that would run it. Linux support is free and windows charges for their support. Yes linux does have some problems, but its free thats why there is more ditros. Every one has diferent taste so if you dont like one try another, they are free and support is free. Or pay $250.00 for windows vista or 7 and support is not free and you are stuck with it. On the other hand most of the problems in linux is caused because vendors dont cooperate with their drivers, and linux and open source has to come up with a way to work around it.They are doing a good job of it in most cases. Ill stick with linux. I dont like unity either so I stick with gnome. On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 8:44 AM, vekotin wrote: > Btw why don't ubuntu community demand free computers, so free hardware to= o? > Why is it just that operanting system and software that are demanded to be > free? > > Operating system and software is the sould of computers, so at least I > think that they are more valuable product of good work than just > hardware. I appreciate good work. I would even willing to pay for > example 10 euros of ubuntu, so of really good ubuntu, if such would > exist. Those licenses of Windows in preinstalled machines cost only > 5-15% of the price of those ready to use computers. That isn't bad price > at all of that all value. > > I think that instead of putting that all energy in developing Unity, > canonical would had been wiser to develop better graphical interface for > majority users, so for those "normal users" to cope with ubuntu. > And to participate in projects that develop genome and kde. canonical got > blind focusing so much, again, in something like unity, that doesn't give > so much benefit after all - compared to the work with it. canonical forgot > the users again and worshipped the product itself. > > -- > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to Jaunty. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share > > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions > --=20 @Dave Stroud@ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2012 16:00:33 -0000 Message-Id: On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 16:14, Dave Stroud wrote: > Every one has diferent taste so if you dont like one try another, they ar= e free and support is free. Serve different tastes is one of the biggest advantages of Linux. And BTW you can have paid support too. > On the other hand most of the problems in linux is caused because > vendors dont cooperate with their drivers, and linux and open source has = to > come up with a way to work around it.They are doing a good job of it in > most cases. I stick with vendors where I know that they use compatible hardware when building their laptops. > I dont like unity either so I stick with gnome. I think, Unity got much better in the last months regarding stability and with a little changing of my habits I like it besides one big problem left: I have many programs I need very often and I have usually many programs open. The launcher on the left (even with smallest possible icons) gets annoying when you then often need to scroll down. Sub-Launchers (or submenus in the launcher - however you call it) would help me but ASFAIK currently not supported. Hope they will add something like that. On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 15:27, vekotin wrote: > I think that by dividing into masses of distros and not working more > together, caused that very own problem of linux. Too many working on the same thing can even decrease productivity, outcome and speed. Not sure if it would help if all would work just on one single UI style. I either think that the diversity increases creativity of all. > linux- and open source -communities shoult take a look at themselves > with a mirror, and stop blaming others of problems of their very own. > That would be the only solution and way to better success, to make > better linux-products. Again, diversity I don't see as a problem. Vendors not providing drivers for Linux or ignorant software vendors still focusing on Windows only is reason to blame. I know people who would prefer Linux if the specific stuff they need would be available on Linux too. Don't blame the Linux community! Blame the software vendors who still live in 15 years ago, where 99,9 % on the client was Windows. Although everybody still speaks of the 1-5 % - I don't believe this any more as I encounter more and more people using Linux. > I have seen during last years, how same problems exists again and again > with ubuntu releases. It is shameles to see them exist that way. I have > laptop that is among the most sold laptops in the world and every ubuntu > release has problems with it No matter how many times it is sold - the tipping point is: What components are built in there? Probably those are not good for Linux. > mostly same problems again and again. Then > those problems are solved within some months after release, but still, > that Windows-world does that much much better. On my laptop - using since Jaunty, I never had important issues with Ubuntu. One thing you are right: There are some bugs that - although already fixed - sometimes come back and then get fixed again. > And moreover, some things work in Fedora and openSUSE - and not in > ubuntu, so how on earth open source can't make that open source thing > work in reality? My experience: More things work in Ubuntu and don't work in Fedora (openSUSE I do not use). > So, market share of Windows isn't the problems. Problems is the lack of > real as good alternatives, made by really good co-work. My experience: Where the good alternatives are missing is for that software that is made by external vendors not well integrated in the rest of the Linux and open source world. > And ubuntu's Unity has been a huge mess - much bigger mess than Vista > ever did. I have a different view on that. 80 % of the standard-users would be perfectly fine with it. > I have always wondered, how free hobby work can aim to be professional. > Within these ubuntu years I have seen, that hobby work really can't be > so professional. Still widespread myth. Linux world is not just students coding in their spare time - indeed most of the work is done by paid employees. - Have a look at recent statistics - like http://apcmag.com/linux-now-75-corporate.htm And apart from that I have a lot of experience with commercial software on Windows too and I can tell you: The quality is very poor there! By tendency more features than in open source but they are very buggy. Tendency for the Ubuntu apps is: Less features but they simply work (of course there are bugs there also). Best regards, Martin. --=20 Martin Wildam http://martin.wildam.org/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2012 16:04:52 -0000 Message-Id: > > Btw why don't ubuntu community demand free computers, so free hardware to= o? > Why is it just that operanting system and software that are demanded to be > free? > You're completely missing the point. It's just that some people actually realize that freedom is infinitely more important than price. Let me borrow the words of Matthew Garrett: "I was greatly relieved to discover that commercial software sucks just as much as Free software does, except I can't fix the bugs myself." The only way to debug or customize proprietary programs is by begging it's authors to do it for you (since they're the only ones who can) and hoping that they eventually comply with your demands. I can tell you that the vast majority of them just doesn't give a shit, but don't take my word for it and see for yourself. You can try paying them, but I guarantee you'll never be able to afford the outrageous prices they'll charge you. Again - don't take my word for it and see for yourself. Proprietary code is notorious for being a steaming pile of crap held together by truckloads of duct tape and the list of ancient bugs, that it's authors never bother to fix until it's too late just goes on forever. Try being the only one affected by one of them and see what happens. There could be thousands of others like you and as far as the ones in charge are concerned, it's still nothing compared to the hundreds of millions of those who were lucky enough to never hit that bug, so it stays exactly the way it is, otherwise it's wasted profit. There's just no way in hell you can ever trust such code to be reliable and secure, because you would be completely insane to trust the corporations producing it. Nobody's trying to imply that libre software can never have the exact same problems, but at least it's inherently fixable, because the code is publicly available and anyone can do what it takes to the benefit of everyone else. This freedom makes libre software the only sustainable solution. That's what this is all about and I just can't see where you got so terribly misinformed to come up with the whole "us demanding gratis software" thing. Bottom line is that you can trust only code produced by people sharing your interests, which makes libre software superior even if it's seemingly lacking in whatever respect. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2012 16:31:11 -0000 Message-Id: On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 18:04, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Let me borrow the words of Matthew Garrett: > "I was greatly relieved to discover that commercial software sucks just as > much as Free software does, except I can't fix the bugs myself." It takes a while to dig into a project and although I have invested a few time for 2 or 3 projects to fix a few bugs, I cannot dig into every project where I find bugs. I have to rely on others fixing it - of course just because of time and not because of being impossible - at least I can choose which projects are more important for me and of course they need to be programmed in a language that I am quite familiar with. > Proprietary code is notorious for being a steaming pile of crap held > together by truckloads of duct tape and the list of ancient bugs, that it= 's > authors never bother to fix until it's too late just goes on forever. Oh yes, how true! - I have written code that I knew will never be seen by others and other code I have written with the others in mind. Already the others in mind made my code cleaner and better documented. Best regards, Martin. --=20 Martin Wildam http://martin.wildam.org/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2012 18:01:32 -0000 Message-Id: > > It takes a while to dig into a project and although I have invested a few > time for 2 or 3 projects to fix a few bugs, I cannot dig into every proje= ct > where I find bugs. I have to rely on others fixing it The point isn't that you should try to fix everything yourself, but that always have much more than just a single place to go, that is pretty much guaranteed to screw you. I have written code that I knew will never be seen by others and other code > I have written with the others in mind. Already the others in mind made my > code cleaner and better documented. > And your diligence makes you extremely respectable at least in my book, but unfortunately not everyone is like that. For example the good old M$ with their Hyper-V drivers : > As a result of being beaten through staging process, their Hyper-V drivers > are now significantly cleaner and tighter to the point of 60% reduction in > the overall lines of code, significant performance and stability > improvements were made, and a solid architectural basis created. That tells you two things: 1. *they're not ashamed to publicly produce crap* 2. *they never improve it on their own, even if it is in their own best interest* That gives you a taste of their nature (and a reason why I don't trust the word they say), but there are way too many completely valid reasons to suspect that the reality is much worse than that. For example these quotes: This one officially confirms what I already said - they just don't care about their customers as long as it's profitable: > There are no significant bugs in our released software that any > significant number of users want fixed. =E2=80=A6 I'm saying we don't do = a new > version to fix bugs. We don't. Not enough people would buy it. You can ta= ke > a hundred people using Microsoft Word. Call them up and say "Would you buy > a new version because of bugs?" You won't get a single person to say they= 'd > buy a new version because of bugs. We'd never be able to sell a release on > that basis. Bill Gates, Focus Magazine No. 43 (23 October 1995) This one officially confirms, that they deliberately lock users to their software and sabotage competition, because it's highly profitable: > One thing we have got to change in our strategy - allowing Office > documents to be rendered very well by other peoples browsers is one of the > most destructive things we could do to the company. We have to stop putti= ng > any effort into this and make sure that Office documents very well depends > on PROPRIETARY IE capabilities. Bill Gates' 1998 a memo to the Office product group Feel free to substitute "correctly rendering Office documents" for "reliably reproducing their interfaces" and see where this is going. This, my friends, is why proprietary software sucks and why we have these problems. Not that we didn't contribute more than enough ourselves, but the root cause is the ruthlessness of (not only) today's businesses. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2012 22:20:52 -0000 Message-Id: <1333837252.97083.YahooMailClassic@web171005.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hi :) Windows tries to be all things for all people on all hardware (not includin= g Arm, hand-helds, netbooks, 'old' or low-spec hardware, phones, Apple hard= ware, Sony Playstation, embedded devices, servers, firewalls, routers and s= o on).=C2=A0 The result is that it is very slow, heavy and "bloated".=C2=A0= It's difficult to streamline for any particular purpose.=C2=A0 It's very v= ulnerable to a wide range of malware and viruses.=C2=A0=20 Even distros that have the same general idea tend to aim at slightly different niches in the market.=C2=A0 Mostly the wide variety is so that ve= ry different types of use can still have choices.=C2=A0 Between the different distros it is co-operative competition.=C2=A0=20 Regards from Tom :) --- On Sat, 7/4/12, vekotin <> wrote: I think that by dividing into masses of distros and not working more together, caused that very own problem of linux. And moreover, some things work in Fedora and openSUSE - and not in ubuntu, so how on earth open source can't make that open source thing work in reality? Aim must be good alternatives, not just amount of alternatives. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2012 09:04:43 -0000 Message-Id: I don't really think it is impossible to gather all that under one roof. Ho= wever I tend to think that perhaps we have to much in the distributions. Do= we really need a Firefox package for every distribution? A common packaging of common apps should simplify a lot. Windows is slow, heavy and "bloated" because it is monolithic and not optimized. They keep adding functions without bothering to improve them once they have them. Also it is one single large blob, not organized in packages like Linux. Also there is to much spaghetti in the code making it hard to modularize core functionality often depends on binaries that are not core functionality. The MinWin team is improving on this but it will take time.... > Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2012 22:20:52 +0000 > From: 1@bugs.launchpad.net > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Hi :) > Windows tries to be all things for all people on all hardware (not includ= ing Arm, hand-helds, netbooks, 'old' or low-spec hardware, phones, Apple ha= rdware, Sony Playstation, embedded devices, servers, firewalls, routers and= so on). The result is that it is very slow, heavy and "bloated". It's di= fficult to streamline for any particular purpose. It's very vulnerable to = a wide range of malware and viruses. =20 >=20 > Even distros that have the same general idea tend to aim at slightly > different niches in the market. Mostly the wide variety is so that very > different types of use can still have choices. >=20 > Between the different distros it is co-operative competition. =20 > Regards from > Tom :) >=20 >=20 > --- On Sat, 7/4/12, vekotin <> wrote: >=20 > >=20 > I think that by dividing into masses of distros and not working more > together, caused that very own problem of linux. >=20 > >=20 > And moreover, some things work in Fedora and openSUSE - and not in > ubuntu, so how on earth open source can't make that open source thing > work in reality? >=20 > >=20 > Aim must be good alternatives, not just amount of alternatives. >=20 > >=20 > --=20 > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >=20 > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: > New > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in The Linux Kernel: > New > Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: > In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > Invalid > Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: > Invalid > Status in Arch Linux: > New > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New >=20 > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >=20 > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full > potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >=20 > Steps to repeat: >=20 > 1. Visit a local PC store. >=20 > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-i= nstalled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >=20 > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software lik= e Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features an= d benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >=20 > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2012 12:38:39 -0000 Message-Id: On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 11:04, Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > perhaps we have to much in the distributions. > Do we really need a Firefox package for every distribution? > A common packaging of common apps should simplify a lot. Yes, that would indeed help. But which one of the existing is the best packaging system? Probably there have been already hundreds of discussions about that... > Windows is slow, heavy and "bloated" because it is monolithic and not > optimized. [...] > The MinWin team is improving on this but it will take time.... For sure, M$ will not sleep. Linux community should also look ahead. - I am confident. Best regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2012 15:45:18 -0000 Message-Id: <1333899918.96127.YahooMailClassic@web171006.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hi :) It doesn't really work out that way.=C2=A0 Mostly every distro fits neatly = into 1 of about 8 main families and even different families only have minor= differences between the way they do things.=C2=A0=20 With package management there are only about 4 main different ways.=C2=A0 I= f you look at one good example, Adobe Reader http://get.adobe.com/reader/otherversions/ The top drop-down shows, for; * Windows, 7 different downloads.=C2=A0 One for each of 7, Vista, Xp and so= on * Mac, 4 different downloads * Linux, 1, well 4 when you look at the bottom drop-down but of those 1 is = deb and another is a tarball so that is just 1 really * Solaris, 2 * Android, 1 So it's really not the case that there needs to be hundreds for Gnu&Linux even tho that is often used as the excuse for not even offering 1.=C2=A0 If hardware manufacturers didn't mind producing 1 OpenSource driver then it would cover all the different Gnu&Linux families, Solaris, Android, Bsd and Macs.=C2=A0 Plus being OpenSource would mean that it could be updat= ed faster if malware exploits were found.=C2=A0 So the simple answer to "Do we really need a Firefox package for every distribution?" is No.=C2=A0 And at the moment we don't have a separate package for each one anyway.=C2=A0 Regards from Tom :) --- On Sun, 8/4/12, Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: I don't really think it is impossible to gather all that under one roof. However I tend to think that perhaps we have to much in the distributions. Do we really need a Firefox package for every distribution? A common packaging of common apps should simplify a lot. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2012 09:29:32 -0000 Message-Id: > Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2012 12:38:39 +0000 > From: 1@bugs.launchpad.net > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 11:04, Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > > perhaps we have to much in the distributions. > > Do we really need a Firefox package for every distribution? > > A common packaging of common apps should simplify a lot. >=20 > Yes, that would indeed help. But which one of the existing is the best > packaging system? Probably there have been already hundreds of > discussions about that... There virtually no difference between them and there are build systems=20 that generate both .rpm and .deb packages. The simple solution therefore is to chose both. There are some difference between the distibutions and their policies.=20 For example fedora/rpm have a "no conflict" policy where debian/ubuntu=20 lets the user resolve conflicts. Yum just fail when there is conflicts=20 between multiple repos, which can be solved with yum priorities which=20 automatically resolves the conflict by choosing the package from the=20 most prioritized repo. This makes yum more suitable for scripted updates - and is as far as I can see the only difference in functionality. However my vote goes for using a build system that support both deb and rpm and generate both apt and yum repositories. >=20 >=20 > > Windows is slow, heavy and "bloated" because it is monolithic and not > > optimized. [...] > > The MinWin team is improving on this but it will take time.... >=20 > For sure, M$ will not sleep. Linux community should also look ahead. - > I am confident. Microsoft is probably very aware of any advantage that the Linux community has, and makes plans on how to nullify those advantages. MinWin is such a project and is a requirement for making a neat package- able operating system. MSI packgages are nice, but has far less functionality then .deb/.rpm. It does not have a prowerful way to handle dependencies or update repositories. I am sure Microsoft knows this but before MinWin is complete they have no use of such package management because they will have to build blobs anyway. The Linux community should also look ahead and I think the best way to do that is the common repos. When we can focus all resources on one repo we will free all those resources that goes into building multiple versions of everything and can use that time for other awesomeness. Also i think we should focus on one single desktop environment and I think we are currently going that way. When KDE and Gmome went useless I turned to LXDE which suffer from slow development. When Qt Desktop came around i switched to that and stayed. Its development cycle are short and I really think it will fill the void of what KDE and Gnome used to be. However it will take months or years before we really know if that's gonna happen. Remember that the Windows FOSS community have a single desktop environment - LiteStep. >=20 > Best regards, Martin. >=20 > --=20 > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >=20 > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: > New > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in The Linux Kernel: > New > Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: > In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > Invalid > Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: > Invalid > Status in Arch Linux: > New > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New >=20 > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >=20 > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full > potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >=20 > Steps to repeat: >=20 > 1. Visit a local PC store. >=20 > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-i= nstalled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >=20 > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software lik= e Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features an= d benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >=20 > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: netbook (78luphr0rnk2nuqimstywepozxn9kl19tqh0tx66b5dki1xxsh5mkz9gl21a5rlwfnr8jn6ln0m3jxne2k9x1ohg85w3-9z4q7lx5t-a811i2i3ytqlsztthjth0svbccw8inm65tmkqp9sarr553jq53in4xm1m8wn3o4rlwaer06ogwvqwv9mrqoku2x334n7) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2012 17:19:56 -0000 Message-Id: <20120409171956.18383.10206.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Here's the biggest problem with this bug. The bug's food is failure http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=3D1953490 Stop feeding it and it'll die :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: hexafraction (rarkenin) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:23:01 -0000 Message-Id: <20120410152301.8195.11304.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> Easily reproduced. Also working on word-of-mouth bugfix and distributing CD's locally to friends and acquaintances. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: arnupharb (arnupharb-master) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 11:50:31 -0000 Message-Id: <20120411115031.4471.46563.malone@gac.canonical.com> Ubutu never give up Ubuntu is freedom don't need to crack Ubuntu is kind and friendly with my computer Ubuntu is Global operating system --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: them par (thmanoy) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 11:31:01 -0000 Message-Id: <20120412113101.16712.20705.malone@soybean.canonical.com> When I was a windows 7 user and I discovered Ubuntu, I was disappointed abo= ut Unity and Gnome classic, I liked KDE. However, when I installed ubuntu I= loved unity and I use it until now. Some things I don't like about Ubuntu = are: * The default Ambiance theme is good but there are a lot of people who do n= ot like the orange-brown combination. Ubuntu should include different color= versions of the Ambiance theme or at least a blue version preinstalled and= black instead of brown. * Ubuntu should have gufw preinstalled and turned on by default. * A Unity configurator like MyUnity should be preinstalled. * A short ubuntu desktop video should be included on how to use Ubuntu and = unity or something like the Ubuntu tour. It may advise the user to install = some programs. For example, a new user will not be aware of the HUD feature= or that when he maximizes a window, the title bar are migrated in the top = bar, about the global menu or how to use the Ubuntu Software Center. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 17:30:10 -0000 Message-Id: On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 13:31, them par <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > * Ubuntu should have gufw preinstalled and turned on by default. This one, I wondered why Ubuntu comes without firewall preinstalled but then somebody told me: If there is - by default - no service providing services there is no vulnerable point. So the security problem is solved at it's root (which I like in general: solving problems at their root). On Windows there are a plenty of vulnerable points on a default install. But instead of closing down those, Windows enables the firewall by default (you may not see the sense - as in both situations the services cannot be used from outside ;-) ). > * A Unity configurator like MyUnity should be preinstalled. > * A short ubuntu desktop video should be included on how to use Ubuntu an= d unity or something like the Ubuntu tour. It may advise the user to instal= l some programs. For example, a new user will not be aware of the HUD featu= re or that when he maximizes a window, the title bar are migrated in the to= p bar, about the global menu or how to use the Ubuntu Software Center. Let me add three things: * A few more quick-access hotkeys or mouse activity (e.g. One of my first things is to add in Compiz desktop switch (left or right) using left or right mouse buttons on upper or lower screen edge. * Sub-Launchers - the left edge is simply far too small for all my often needed icons. There is no room left and all the time scrolling down is annoying. Optionally at least allow smaller icons than 32x32. * There should a traditional Gnome menu button (optionally if you want) be added to the launcher for those who want to strive through everything that is installed. There are many reasons for why users may want that (e.g. striving through the menu a support guy gets a good overview on what the user has installed - or - a user wants to use the first video editor that is already available without seeing all the stuff that is available, but probably not installed) in a categorized way. Some people simply think in categories and menus (maybe because of the file structures that they are used to - I am working in DMS and ECM field and it's simply hard to get people stop that category and file system thinking). And basically it doesn't hurt anybody having both options to find stuff. Best regards, --=20 Martin Wildam http://martin.wildam.org/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 11:33:10 -0000 Message-Id: Hi, today I made an experiment which for me is difficult to do: I showed Ubuntu 12.04 beta to a person (about 70 years old) completely new to computers (only used the mouse to click through a set of photos so far but that's it). I only know a very few people of this type because most already have used computers. I have seen a lot of funny and interesting behaviour (like hit the key with the pipe character written on it instead of i ;-) ) - but here the relevant results in very short: a) The unity launchers - because of the size and because they are quadratic were the only things easy to click for the person with low mouse experience level. I am sure rectangular size - e.g. on traditional taskbars would have been more difficult to click. b) Without explanations - whatever Operating System - a complete newbie person cannot learn only on his/her own. There needs to be a person that explains. Not to talk about administration. A newbie with low experience level will never administrate the computer on his/her own. There must be a person with higher experience level helping out and doing this for everyone who just wants to do a few things (or must do). This draws a very important conclusion for me - confirming my belly feeling somehow: The operating system must try to minimize the annoyance for that guy behind everything. The person that needs to help out the core family and a dozen of friends! - That usually are IT people or at least the very technical interested guy/girl. SO FOCUS ON THOSE PEOPLE MORE THAN YOU FOCUS ON THE NEW USERS! If the guy/girl that needs to administrate, hates the OS he/she will install something else and the user needs to adapt. c) Most websites are far more complicated than the base operating system. Navigating those sites is far more hassle. Simple example: First attempt on the first found website was to click on a quadratic bullet that was used there instead of the link text next to it - of course the bullet looked more similar to the Unity launchers. ;-) - Not to talk about organization of the websites (each different and often information very hidden - in many cases the newbie would loose the most hours here). Best regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 13:20:16 -0000 Message-Id: <4F897990.5080001@hal-pc.org> > This draws a very important conclusion for me - confirming my > belly feeling somehow: The operating system must try to minimize the > annoyance for that guy behind everything. The person that needs to > help out the core family and a dozen of friends! - That usually are IT > people or at least the very technical interested guy/girl. SO FOCUS ON > THOSE PEOPLE MORE THAN YOU FOCUS ON THE NEW USERS! If the guy/girl > that needs to administrate, hates the OS he/she will install something > else and the user needs to adapt. This is very insightful. The newbie market will never come to Ubuntu=20 unless someone brings them here, and if the technical people that do=20 that are not happy... (Yes, I still find Unity to get in the way of how=20 I work, and am still on 10.04) For example, I only buy an recommend printers that are supported in=20 Linux. I may only buy one printer, but my Mother bought one, and a few=20 friends, people at work, and so on. Guess who they asked what printer=20 to buy? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 20:45:41 -0000 Message-Id: On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 15:20, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: >> This draws a very important conclusion for me - confirming my >> belly feeling somehow: The operating system must try to minimize the >> annoyance for that guy behind everything. The person that needs to >> help out the core family and a dozen of friends! - That usually are IT >> people or at least the very technical interested guy/girl. SO FOCUS ON >> THOSE PEOPLE MORE THAN YOU FOCUS ON THE NEW USERS! If the guy/girl >> that needs to administrate, hates the OS he/she will install something >> else and the user needs to adapt. > This is very insightful. =C2=A0The newbie market will never come to Ubuntu > unless someone brings them here, and if the technical people that do > that are not happy... For the unexercised user efficiency differences of one or the other operating system are irrelevant - not so for the power user or IT guy! So all those driving Ubuntu (or other Linux distros) forward with their experience and with their desires for improving efficiency are the key group - they are the experts others will trust. Who would you rather ask which new car to buy - the flower lady at the corner or the taxi driver? Best regards, Martin. --=20 Martin Wildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 21:18:33 -0000 Message-Id: <1334524713.47800.YahooMailClassic@web171001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hi :) I would rather have a bike.=C2=A0 Smaller carbon footprint :) Regards from Tom :) --- On Sun, 15/4/12, Martin Wildam <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: Who would you rather ask which new car to buy - the flower lady at the corner or the taxi driver? Best regards, Martin. --=20 Martin Wildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 22:36:34 -0000 Message-Id: <4F8B4D72.7020207@hal-pc.org> On 04/15/2012 04:18 PM, Tom wrote: > Hi :) > I would rather have a bike. Smaller carbon footprint :) So who would you ask, the guy next door or a bike messenger? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 10:32:54 -0000 Message-Id: <1334572374.1497.YahooMailClassic@web171004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hi :) Both.=C2=A0 But the more important thing is their reasoning.=C2=A0 I might = not take the 1st choice of either because our requirements might be complet= ely different or their reasons seem contrary to what i'm looking for (ie ne= ither expensive racers nor mountain bikes are ideal for riding around a fai= rly flat town to get into work in the morning but might be great on holiday= or if the morning run is longer or hillier).=C2=A0=20 The neighbour might be more useful if he/she let me test-drive.=C2=A0 The a= cknowledged expert might not have time to share any wisdom. Regards from Tom :) --- On Sun, 15/4/12, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: On 04/15/2012 04:18 PM, Tom wrote: > Hi :) > I would rather have a bike.=C2=A0 Smaller carbon footprint :) So who would you ask, the guy next door or a bike messenger? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 20:40:44 -0000 Message-Id: On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 12:32, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Both.=C2=A0But the more important thing is their reasoning. I might not t= ake the 1st choice of either because our requirements might be completely d= ifferent or their reasons seem contrary to what i'm looking for Yes, true. Requirements can be different. But I am pretty sure that the bike messenger can tell you more about which vendor makes better quality bikes and either can help you better, repairing a few things - more obvious situation when you have a friend who is car mechanic. Even if he might prefer a sports car and you a family van, he can tell you about some features or car properties that you should pay more attention to. > (ie neither expensive racers nor mountain bikes are ideal for riding arou= nd a fairly flat town to get into > work in the morning but might be great on holiday or if the morning run i= s longer or hillier). By far not all towns are in the flat... --=20 Martin Wildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 20:59:16 -0000 Message-Id: On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 22:45, Martin Wildam wrote: >>> belly feeling somehow: The operating system must try to minimize the >>> annoyance for that guy behind everything. The person that needs to >>> help out the core family and a dozen of friends! - That usually are IT >>> people or at least the very technical interested guy/girl. > [...] > For the unexercised user efficiency differences of one or the other > operating system are irrelevant - not so for the power user or IT guy! Talked to another person - met at a customer - guess who is fixing his computer at home: His 15 year old son... --=20 Martin Wildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Emerson Hsieh (emersonhsieh) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 00:50:01 -0000 Message-Id: <20120423005001.23051.47528.malone@gac.canonical.com> 100% agree with this bug! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: shubham (shubhammaheshwariy) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:06:53 -0000 Message-Id: <20120424090653.18502.15191.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> this bug is highly in india and i dont think it will fix here in other countires i beilve it can fix i agree 100% with this bug --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Q (thread13) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 01:53:42 -0000 Message-Id: <20120426015343.14051.72756.malone@wampee.canonical.com> In addition to comment 1647 ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1647 ) I'd like to shed some additional light that may help in debugging: http://glyphobet.net/blog/essay/140 . From my personal experience, I have seen similar things happening with the whole bunch of linux kernel USB 2.0 problems -- see e.g. comment 594 ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux- source-2.6.20/+bug/88746/comments/594 ) for bug 88746 ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bug/88746 ) . Please note that this comment was added more than three years after the ini= tial bug was filed! ( After living for several years with this bug, and a lot of digging, I hav= e finally realized how complex the situation was, and for me it seems to ha= ve almost gone -- two more years later and with a backported kernel, but fr= om a new user's point of view -- no one even have _tried_ to explain all th= e difficulties and intrinsic details for USB 2.0 support in the linux kerne= l! All we've got from Canonical was "declined / won't fix" ) As a more general thing -- if then, back in the times of 7.10, the installa= tion procedure for Ubuntu to an average computer looked like "click a few t= imes" -- then around 9.04 it was more like "click a few times and then fix = one or two minor things".=20 Now it is a nightmare ( "plug and pray", "and prepare to spend from days to= weeks on the forums, digging into the problem(s), testing patches, etc" ).= =20 I have stopped even trying anything but LTS releases long ago, and still wa= it for every next upgrade with fear and trembling. =20 To conclude, Ubuntu is (imho) still the best linux for desktop, but with growing number of features etc, it's getting less and less stable, and without admitting that I doubt that this bug would ever be fixed. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Q (thread13) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 01:59:25 -0000 Message-Id: <20120426015925.1785.87020.malone@soybean.canonical.com> In addition to comment 1647 ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1647 ) I'd like to shed some additional light that may help in debugging: http://glyphobet.net/blog/essay/140 . From my personal experience, I have seen similar things happening with the whole bunch of linux kernel USB 2.0 problems -- see e.g. comment 594 ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux- source-2.6.20/+bug/88746/comments/594 ) for bug 88746 ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bug/88746 ) . Please note that this comment was added more than three years after the ini= tial bug was filed! ( After living for several years with this bug, and a lot of digging, I hav= e finally realized how complex the situation was, and for me it seems to ha= ve almost gone -- two more years later and with a backported kernel, but fr= om a new user's point of view -- no one even have _tried_ to explain all th= e difficulties and intrinsic details for USB 2.0 support in the linux kerne= l! All we've got from Canonical was "declined / won't fix" ) As a more general thing -- if then, back in the times of 7.10, the installa= tion procedure for Ubuntu to an average computer looked like "click a few t= imes" -- then around 9.04 it was more like "click a few times and then fix = one or two minor things".=20 Now it is a nightmare ( "plug and pray", "and prepare to spend from days to= weeks on the forums, digging into the problem(s), testing patches, etc" ).= =20 I have stopped even trying anything but LTS releases long ago, and still wa= it for every next upgrade with fear and trembling. =20 To conclude, Ubuntu is (imho) still the best linux for desktop, but with growing number of features etc, it's getting less and less stable, and without admitting that I doubt that this bug would ever be fixed. PS. Got multiple "timeout errors" while trying to submit this comment. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Axel H. (staff-pro-unreal) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 09:22:05 -0000 Message-Id: <20120430092205.5385.88258.malone@gac.canonical.com> Since Unity is the default Desktop environment Ubuntu has becon VERY unstable. I've upgraded two machines to Ubuntu 12.04: both are unusable now! LTS is LTI now: Long Term Instability ... For every 10.04 LTS user I'd recommend NOT to upgrade but to switch the Dis= tribution. I like the idea behind Unity but it's instability is the horror. Every upgr= ade to the next Ubuntu release since 11.04 was a pain! As long as Unity won't be rock solid stable, Ubuntu will never gain a appropriate Market share. I used to recommend Ubuntu but now: No way! I'd rcommend Mint or Fedora or an alternative like xubuntu or kubuntu. Comment #1680 is right with: "To conclude, Ubuntu is (imho) still the best linux for desktop, but with growing number of features etc, it's getting less and less stable, and without admitting that I doubt that this bug would ever be fixed.", except that Ubuntu is still the best linux for desktop. It used to be, but since 11.04 it's going down the drain. Go and get Unity stable and stop this featuritis. Become the Ubuntu that it used to be, then you might have a chance. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 09:52:55 -0000 Message-Id: <1335779575.10536.YahooMailClassic@web171004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hi :) A fresh install is always better than upgrading.=C2=A0 Also the more steps = you take the less likely to be satisfactory.=C2=A0 It's usually possible to= upgrade from 1 LTS to the next LTS without upgrading to all the intermedia= rry 6monthlies.=C2=A0=20 There is a neat trick for installing any version over any other version (so you can even go backwards too! 12.04 to 10.04 or whatever).=C2=A0 Step 1 is to use a LiveCd session or similar but when you get to the partitioning section choose "Manual" or "Advanced" or "Something else" depending on which version of Ubuntu you are installing.=C2=A0 It's always the bottom option.=C2=A0 It rescans your drives and lets you choose which partition to use as what.=C2=A0 The trick is the crucial part here.=C2=A0 D= O NOT let it format any partition except for the Swap.=C2=A0 So, make sure there are NO ticks in the "Format?" column.=C2=A0 Step 2 =3D after the install is complete.=C2=A0 Work out which programs you= had installed (or at least those you want) that are not currently installed.=C2=A0 A quick look in /home/username at all the .somethings (eg .libreoffice or .config/libreoffice indicates that you have LibreOffice).=C2=A0 There are some sub-folders such as .gconf and .mozilla but you only need a hasty skim through, and compare with whatever is (or rather is not) in the menus.=C2=A0=C2=A0 It's unclear what people mean by "broken" or "unstable" unless you know the person.=C2=A0 One chap (granted he was an office worker) told me his machine was "completely dead" and spent about a week ranting about how bad it all was and how useless tech support was he finally let me onto his machine and i solved it in 3 clicks.=C2=A0 So, if you say something is broken or unstable then it's better to give a h= int as to what sort of things are going wrong.=C2=A0 Otherwise many techies= just assume you're an idiot and the instability is user-error because that= 's what it so often turns out to be.=C2=A0=20 Regards from Tom ) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Axel H. (staff-pro-unreal) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:03:11 -0000 Message-Id: <20120430140311.31057.73374.malone@soybean.canonical.com> At first I'm a developer as well. And adding features, features, features and refactoring all the times keeps the bugs left back on track, or worse, is introducing new bugs. And this is what makes me upset about unity. Its receiving features and refactorings but no stabilizations. It seems to me that nobody takes care of the many stability issues. ie. This Bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/nvidia-drivers- ubuntu/+bug/728745 is still open as "undecided". And the "Fix Released" for unity is bad joke: "We added the graphics card to blacklist ..." wtf? By unstable I mean: - Window decorator disappears (crashes) randomly in 11.10 - Unity is freezing the whole desktop. In 11.04 win Nvidia GF7 series and, = since ubuntu 12.04 and 11.10 (latest upgrades) with GF8 series=20 - In Ubuntu 11.10 Unity is freezing randomly - It's sometimes not reactin properly to the Super-Key (in version 11.10 - = 12.04 is freezing so untestable) This seems to be related to the nvidia proprietary driver which is not open= source and not fixable. But why the heck is Canonical making their primary desktop environment depe= ndent to proprietary graphics drivers? And why are other desktop environmen= ts working smoothly with the proprietary drivers? There are issues reported for the latest nvidia driver causing these issues= due to a security fix. Why is canonical not using an stable, known working version of the driver. = They're restrictive with all other software (i.e. PHP is still 5.3 but coul= d easily be upgraded to 5.4) but the essentials are updated to untested ble= eding edge. What the hell? Provide bleeding edge packages for the people who desire to use it but use = well tested software especially for LTS. It's disappointing and it started with making Unity the primary DE. I really like the Unity concept: * It's intuitive * It's easy * It saves time But that doesn't help a thing when it's freezing my desktop and I cannot use it. "Otherwise many techies just assume you're an idiot and the instability is = user-error because that's what it so often turns out to be." And this is the way Ubuntu want's gain market share? Well good luck then ... Btw: I don't want to reinstall everything when going to the next distro version = with the probability that it will still not work. Then I could use MS Windo= ws with the exception that it spares me from "probably it will not work eit= her"! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:37:46 -0000 Message-Id: <4F9EA3BA.3020807@hal-pc.org> On 04/30/2012 04:52 AM, Tom wrote: > Hi :) > A fresh install is always better than upgrading. For whom? Not the non-technical user... Lee --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Emerson Hsieh (emersonhsieh) Date: Sat, 05 May 2012 18:00:03 -0000 Message-Id: <20120505180003.26401.68046.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> I think Ubuntu Linux is going to fix this --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: ruediix@gmail.com (ruedii) Date: Sun, 06 May 2012 00:00:49 -0000 Message-Id: <20120506000049.7420.48484.malone@wampee.canonical.com> I think that the Linux community in general will eventually fix this. It should be considered a high priority long term project. However, we can be grateful that we have averted a similar bug in the mobile market. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: arnupharb (arnupharb-master) Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 17:49:15 -0000 Message-Id: <20120510174915.17590.16966.malone@wampee.canonical.com> in fact --don't rebuke me--- my country know only windows and they don't kn= ow anything about linux i think one way to fix it is tell people how ubuntu free and free -flexibl= e=20 make some advertiment to show on TV --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: freacert (erik-grtz) Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 08:38:30 -0000 Message-Id: <20120518083830.18848.16469.malone@wampee.canonical.com> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1683 [quote]This seems to be related to the nvidia proprietary driver which is = not open source and not fixable. But why the heck is Canonical making their primary desktop environment depe= ndent to proprietary graphics drivers? And why are other desktop environmen= ts working smoothly with the proprietary drivers? [/quote] Exactly, running 10.04 on an 3 years old desktop. I love it. Today i though= t, i give 12.04 a try. 5 minutes, and it hang. I have Nvidia hardware like = so many people in the world. I prefer a desktop which works, I prefer a computer which runs, and which w= ith every update i don't need to buy a new computer. Why not make the LTS a= vailable for 5 or even 8 years. Windows is also still supporting xp, aren t= hey? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 09:21:27 -0000 Message-Id: <1337332887.67676.YahooMailClassic@web171004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hi :) +1 Continuing to support 10.04 would be great.=C2=A0 MS seem to have finally s= topped supporting Xp except under unusual conditions but it's true they kep= t adding a few more years on.=C2=A0 Unity has grown fast into a very usable= interface.=C2=A0 I thought it would take a couple more years to get this f= ar.=C2=A0 The 10.04 still has 1 year support left but it would be great to = see another year or so added to that.=C2=A0 On machines that i have 12.04 i= still favour the classic DE but i miss some of the things i could do with = 10.04 even tho some of those things probably do have equivalents i haven't = yet learned in Unity.=C2=A0=20 Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 09:30:29 -0000 Message-Id: Hi, while setting up my production 12.04 machine I stumbled upon a few issues, e.g. bug #768931 - "no custom icon on launcher displayed for mono winforms and ogre apps". This bug also crashes/closes the complete unity interface when the user does the wrong click. And the Bug is there since 11.04 as far as I could see. I went crazy using Windows, but there are some categories of annoyances you would never experience on Windows - as the bug above. What image do I get with Ubuntu in front of newly converted Duncan Defaultuser telling him, that unfortunately not all applications are displayed well on your taskbar. I mean, this is a core desktop feature that should work in the same reliable way as the underying core OS. Such issues (and there are a few) feed the image of Linux being only suitable for the server side. :-( Best regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 21:59:24 -0000 Message-Id: Thats the thing i like about CentOS/EL... It is very stable and reliable. A= lso it is quite boring and does not ship with for example wine or azureus. = However Neither does XP which is still quite popular... naturally we want t= o avoid a situation where we do not have centralized package management... = but that does not mean that everything has to be distro-based. Take rpmfusi= on and atrpms for example. They both are multi-distro and multi-version. Perhaps some of the packages in Ubuntu should not belong to Ubuntu but in a repository that is shared between debian-based distributions. Possibly a build system could be used to make a common repository with both yum and apt repositories and QA teams for the mayor distributions. This would allow the distributions to focus more on distribution- specific task and less on building firefox and azureus.... As far as I am concerned 12.04 ks far to edgy and unpolished. 10.04 will be my choice for Ubuntu LTS edition until (and if) 12.04 matures. For servers I will stick to CentOS/EL because of the unbeatable support cycle, I can only get better support cycles if turning to Solaris or other non-FOSS software. I think that for most users Linux are only suitable for the server side. They need reliable tools and not edgy and buggy things with the highest possible version number. Ubuntu 12.04 has not even passed alpha (appliance test) yet in my world, and 10.04 has to much outdated software. This is also true for the Red Hat camp... Fedora is to unstable and CentOS is to stable and conservative for desktops. A repository that brings loads of fresh apps in the desktop category like firefox azureus and pidgin to conservative dists like 10.04 would and CentOS would be what these users need. Some of us wanna play with the latest kernel, btrfs and KVM features that makes Fedora/latest Ubuntu the best choice, but "Duncan Defaultuser" would want something right between a stable LTS/CentOS and our edgy dists... and no such option do exist unless they build packages themselves or install software in highly unrecommended ways. The closest thing we have is CentOS + Extra Packages for Enterprise Linux (EPEL) which is Fedora packages ported to CentOS/EL that is not supported by Red Het. However EPEL is seriously outdated and under staffed. This may have something to do with the part where it only supports CentOS/EL... I started working on a wider repository but got stuck on porting Fedoras azureus to CentOS because it depends on maven3 which have circular dependencies and my knowledge of packaging was not enough to solve that... I gave up after about a week... In truth maven3 packaging belong to the jpackage project, but they seem to be as understaffed as the EPEL project. I did however have some minor Fedora Ra=E1=BA=83hide packages buil= ding on Fedora 15 and 16 plus CentOS 5 and 6 on the SUSE build farm from common source packages. SUSE do not support debian distributions so I never tried compiling for those. > Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 09:30:29 +0000 > From: 1@bugs.launchpad.net > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Hi, >=20 > while setting up my production 12.04 machine I stumbled upon a few > issues, e.g. bug #768931 - "no custom icon on launcher displayed for > mono winforms and ogre apps". >=20 > This bug also crashes/closes the complete unity interface when the > user does the wrong click. And the Bug is there since 11.04 as far as > I could see. >=20 > I went crazy using Windows, but there are some categories of > annoyances you would never experience on Windows - as the bug above. > What image do I get with Ubuntu in front of newly converted Duncan > Defaultuser telling him, that unfortunately not all applications are > displayed well on your taskbar. I mean, this is a core desktop feature > that should work in the same reliable way as the underying core OS. > Such issues (and there are a few) feed the image of Linux being only > suitable for the server side. :-( >=20 > Best regards, Martin. >=20 > --=20 > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >=20 > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: > New > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in The Linux Kernel: > New > Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: > In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > Invalid > Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: > Invalid > Status in Arch Linux: > Confirmed > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New >=20 > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >=20 > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full > potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >=20 > Steps to repeat: >=20 > 1. Visit a local PC store. >=20 > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-i= nstalled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >=20 > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software lik= e Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features an= d benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >=20 > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Hein (hhanssen) Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 14:30:44 -0000 Message-Id: <20120523143044.13413.58608.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> Ubuntu looks nice and tries to copy the Apple way, but in an open source manner. That's not bad. What is bad is that you can't get Ubuntu Hardware. That's Apple's strength: if you buy an Apple you know it just works. If you buy Windows you know your hardware will most probably work as this is the most widespread system for desktop computers. If you download and install Ubuntu you need luck and/or knowledge to get things (hardware and software) going. It took almost 2 years before my atheros network card in my laptop was supported by default and Bluetooth still doesn't work. Need software for your Blackberry? available for Windows and OSX and of course not for Ubuntu. Need to sync your Android device? : not possible with Ubuntu. Need a scanner: no problem for Windows or OSX: just look for the respective logos on the box in the shops. Linux: search for supported devices, read what features are or are not supported, and try to get this (mostly outdated) model. Cannonical should team up with hardware manufacturers, open a Web Shop and start selling hardware that works with Ubuntu out of the box: just like Apple does, but it an open manner. It doesn't need to be an Ubuntu- branded product, though it would be nice to see beautiful orange colored hardware on desks as a statement. And we desperately need: ebooks, music, etc. It's still very annoying that I can't easily buy ebooks with Ubuntu; I'll have to rune adode digital editions either with wine or in virtualbox. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 15:57:56 -0000 Message-Id: <4FBD0904.7040302@hal-pc.org> On 05/23/2012 09:30 AM, Hein wrote: > ... Need a scanner: no problem for Windows or OSX: just look > for the respective logos on the box in the shops. Linux: search for > supported devices, read what features are or are not supported, and try > to get this (mostly outdated) model. I have actually had the totally opposite result. I plug in any Cannon=20 Lide scanner and it just works. Any HP stand alone scanner, and it just=20 works. On Windows 7, I needed to buy software for the HP scanners, and=20 could not get some of the Cannon scanners to work. Only found one=20 scanner that would not work with Linux, a Microtik, and it was total=20 junk. It was replaced on Windows with an HP and a paid driver... And if you buy hardware with no research, whatever the OS, you have a=20 good chance of getting disappointing junk. (By the way... How does a scanner get "outdated?" I mean, aren't the=20 features mostly set now?) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 22:24:26 -0000 Message-Id: Scanners gets outdated by using older proprietary protocols that are not in= wider circulation. Check for a FOSS Linux driver BEFORE you buy a printer or scanner. If there= are a high quality FOSS driver now, there will be decades from now... > Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 15:57:56 +0000 > From: 1@bugs.launchpad.net > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > On 05/23/2012 09:30 AM, Hein wrote: > > ... Need a scanner: no problem for Windows or OSX: just look > > for the respective logos on the box in the shops. Linux: search for > > supported devices, read what features are or are not supported, and try > > to get this (mostly outdated) model. >=20 > I have actually had the totally opposite result. I plug in any Cannon=20 > Lide scanner and it just works. Any HP stand alone scanner, and it just = > works. On Windows 7, I needed to buy software for the HP scanners, and=20 > could not get some of the Cannon scanners to work. Only found one=20 > scanner that would not work with Linux, a Microtik, and it was total=20 > junk. It was replaced on Windows with an HP and a paid driver... >=20 > And if you buy hardware with no research, whatever the OS, you have a=20 > good chance of getting disappointing junk. >=20 > (By the way... How does a scanner get "outdated?" I mean, aren't the=20 > features mostly set now?) >=20 > --=20 > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >=20 > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: > New > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in The Linux Kernel: > New > Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: > In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > Invalid > Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: > Invalid > Status in Arch Linux: > Confirmed > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New >=20 > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >=20 > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full > potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >=20 > Steps to repeat: >=20 > 1. Visit a local PC store. >=20 > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-i= nstalled. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >=20 > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software lik= e Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features an= d benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >=20 > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 23:08:34 -0000 Message-Id: On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 12:24 AM, Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Check for a FOSS Linux driver BEFORE you buy a printer or scanner. If the= re are a high quality FOSS driver now, there will be decades from now... Indeed - I always check the OS support of the hardware before buying. But instead of searching a lot, for example when buying a laptop, I tell my vendor, that the thingy must be fully Linux compatible otherwise they get it thrown back. Worked so far. So the hardware support is IMHO not the problem. For the unsupported hardware it is the non-thinking of it when buying the stuff. Much more of a problem is it, when I anyway face annoying bugs, e.g. docking station support in Ubuntu 10.04 (it took my hours to sort out the issue and find a workaround). Currently in 12.04 that seems to be solved (Juhu!), but on the other hand I have problems starting applications written in Mono for example - Unity launcher simply doesn't get it. Because you were talking of printers: There was somebody in my neighbourhood to whom I gave Ubuntu and using SimpleScan there was an annoying bug that caused scans (Printer+Scanner) to be scanned with the wrong paper format all the time (although manually configured correctly). - These are the real annoyances in my opinion, because they take me 80 % of installation and configuration time and that reminds me too much to Windows. Best regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: nameremoved (errorwhywhywhy-deactivatedaccount) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 11:30:45 -0000 Message-Id: <20120720113045.19156.71325.malone@wampee.canonical.com> This bug is widely evident in Australia Never have I ever seen a computer without this bug, the computer manafacturers should man up and sell more computers without OS's on them! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Sarabveer Singh (sarabveer) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:59:49 -0000 Message-Id: <20120725175949.30964.51679.malone@soybean.canonical.com> I think I heard or read somewhere IBM was going to start shipping Ubuntu with their computers --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Sarabveer Singh (sarabveer) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:12:33 -0000 Message-Id: <20120725181233.2746.36595.malone@wampee.canonical.com> To fix this bug, bur a computer and install Linux on it and then take the Microsoft sticker off carefully and give Windows 7 Key to your friend for like ten bucks and give him a Windows 7 dvd you downloaded from a torrent website and tell your friend to use the key on the sticker. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:15:22 -0000 Message-Id: <1343240122.93778.YahooMailClassic@web28902.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) That would be great, even if they replaced LibreOffice with their flavour o= f Apache's OpenOffice.=C2=A0 LO and AOO are not really competing with each = other so much as they are co-operatively competing with the rather larger r= ival.=C2=A0=20 It would be great to see IBM taking on MS.=C2=A0 They might even be large e= nough to get soemwhere especially if other OEMs follow their lead a bit.=C2= =A0=20 Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: nameremoved (errorwhywhywhy-deactivatedaccount) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 10:32:48 -0000 Message-Id: <20120726103248.15032.24786.malone@gac.canonical.com> In Australia there is a bug in the education system where the only OS they seem to use is Windows XP or 7. At a Tafe open day I asked if their network supported Ubuntu, the guy pauses and says no. This bug is everywhere I look! The Australian DET will not allow any Linux distrobutions to connect to the internet, they allow Macs as well, but not a single Linux! To fix this bug: - There should be at least 1 Linux computer per Computer room. (The Win7 Co= mputers are so restrictive it's not funny) - Preferably they should remove this propiatary bias and allow to learn abo= ut an OS that will allow them to learn about it. - Even more preferable, remove Microsofts greedy corporate grip off of ever= yone, and get rid of Windows! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Shaun Husain (shaun-husain) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 18:36:41 -0000 Message-Id: I believe the major issue is lack of consumer software available in the Linux community. I'm not saying that I don't find tons of open source projects and some of high quality, but there's nothing to compete with the top of the line proprietary graphics and audio software available on Windows and Mac. For a developer Linux makes the most sense, it's lightweight and therefore fast and can run Eclipse and other full on IDEs and generally there's a compiler available for every language and to target many systems (VMs or Processors). So for a dev like myself it makes perfect sense, however for someone I work with who strictly does creative work, ever having to deal with the command line is probably too much to ask. They have lots of work to do and if the software available doesn't make their work as fast as it can be on a Windows or Mac OS machine then it just can't sell. Believe me I'm all for Linux and FOSS and Ubuntu, but I think for it to really happen the open source community needs to step up the game with regard to media editing/creation software (ffmpeg is great but explain it to a video editor, granted the video editing GUIs for Ubuntu I've found are very fast, but just lack advanced features). As it stands today I think we have the following large groups of computer users: Developers | Love Linux, works great for them, all the tools you need nothing you don't, fast, easy customization. System Admins | Love Linux, works great for them, cheap solution good performance good security history can run J2EE and other enterprise scale application servers/containers. General Public (mom & pop) | Are frightened of change, have been fed the Windows bread all their professional lives. Linux can work for them and well but they need some help to get started (e-mail, web-browsing all great, UI is easy enough for these tasks, it's fast did I mention that). Media/Content Creators | Tools are not up to par cannot really use Linux on a Day to Day basis simply because the tools are not refined or in-depth enough to match their Windows/Mac OS counter-parts. If a corporation like the one I work for was offered the opportunity to have all of their employees work without licensing costs for OS upgrades and knowing everyone is getting the best bang for their buck out of their hardware, and would be supporting just 1 open source OS, I don't think anyone would be complaining and this bug would dissolve quickly. I believe LibreOffice/OpenOffice are good alternatives to MS Office and the e-mail clients are fine, I think another major area that needs to be addressed by the open source community is Exchange server. GMail has made some strides in providing a replacement but it's not 100% in terms of group contact management and other features that Exchange offers for businesses. So I say we create the following and get this bug closed. Replacement for the following: Final Cut/Premiere Pro Tools Exchange/Outlook Photoshop Illustrator Here's the list I can come up with of possible replacements in Ubuntu, but none seem totally up to par: Video editing http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/top5-linux-video-editing-system-software/ (I've used KDen live not the others here, it was as I said above fast but not feature full) Audio editing Rezound or Audacity, Rezound seems to be dead with regard to development, Audacity is okay but again not great UX/UI interactions and not a ton of features. In terms of Mail servers I believe they're just missing the calendar side of exchange, and contact management/integration in Active Directory, though perhaps there's an alternative for that I'm unaware of https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MailServer I've also heard good things about Citadel and Zimbra and had a brief stint playing with Zimbra but got caught up in other work, some others talking about it here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=3D1231456 Photo Editing: GIMP, decent but hard learning curve, kind of slow to start up and generally work-flow in PhotoShop seems to be smoother, although this coming from someone who has used PhotoShop far more. SVG editor: Inkscape, haven't used this one honestly just assuming from what I've heard from those who have that it's not as easy to use as Illustrator (granted the Adobe suite has been refined by paid engineers for some time and is still a resource hog) I think hardware vendors will support Linux more once consumers demand it, and not before. So yah currently that's my two cents. Please respond and tell me how wrong I am and point me towards all the bad ass software I'm missing out on :). Thanks for reading if you got through that, -Shaun PS I would love a Lenovo with Ubuntu pre-installed (and no Windows OEM fee to boot). On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 5:32 AM, MDV <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > In Australia there is a bug in the education system where the only OS > they seem to use is Windows XP or 7. At a Tafe open day I asked if their > network supported Ubuntu, the guy pauses and says no. > > This bug is everywhere I look! > > The Australian DET will not allow any Linux distrobutions to connect to > the internet, they allow Macs as well, but not a single Linux! > > To fix this bug: > - There should be at least 1 Linux computer per Computer room. (The Win7 > Computers are so restrictive it's not funny) > - Preferably they should remove this propiatary bias and allow to learn > about an OS that will allow them to learn about it. > - Even more preferable, remove Microsofts greedy corporate grip off of > everyone, and get rid of Windows! > > -- > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share > > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: > New > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in The Linux Kernel: > New > Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in The Metacity Window Manager: > In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > Invalid > Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: > Invalid > Status in Arch Linux: > Confirmed > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. > This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. > > Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, > restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and > limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full > potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > What happens: > 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software > pre-installed. > 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. > > What should happen: > 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like > Ubuntu. > 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and > benefits would be apparent and known by all. > 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. > > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Shaun Husain (shaun-husain) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 18:38:38 -0000 Message-Id: Ah sorry to spam after an already long e-mail but one other group I left out that I wanted in the list Gamers, but I believe this will only follow consumer demands like the hardware vendors, since only when there's an audience will a game development company put money into it. On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 1:36 PM, Shaun Husain wrote: > I believe the major issue is lack of consumer software available in the > Linux community. I'm not saying that I don't find tons of open source > projects and some of high quality, but there's nothing to compete with the > top of the line proprietary graphics and audio software available on > Windows and Mac. For a developer Linux makes the most sense, it's > lightweight and therefore fast and can run Eclipse and other full on IDEs > and generally there's a compiler available for every language and to targ= et > many systems (VMs or Processors). So for a dev like myself it makes > perfect sense, however for someone I work with who strictly does creative > work, ever having to deal with the command line is probably too much to > ask. They have lots of work to do and if the software available doesn't > make their work as fast as it can be on a Windows or Mac OS machine then = it > just can't sell. Believe me I'm all for Linux and FOSS and Ubuntu, but I > think for it to really happen the open source community needs to step up > the game with regard to media editing/creation software (ffmpeg is great > but explain it to a video editor, granted the video editing GUIs for Ubun= tu > I've found are very fast, but just lack advanced features). > > As it stands today I think we have the following large groups of computer > users: > Developers | Love Linux, works great for them, all the tools you need > nothing you don't, fast, easy customization. > System Admins | Love Linux, works great for them, cheap solution good > performance good security history can run J2EE and other enterprise scale > application servers/containers. > General Public (mom & pop) | Are frightened of change, have been fed the > Windows bread all their professional lives. Linux can work for them and > well but they need some help to get started (e-mail, web-browsing all > great, UI is easy enough for these tasks, it's fast did I mention that). > Media/Content Creators | Tools are not up to par cannot really use Linux > on a Day to Day basis simply because the tools are not refined or in-depth > enough to match their Windows/Mac OS counter-parts. > > If a corporation like the one I work for was offered the opportunity to > have all of their employees work without licensing costs for OS upgrades > and knowing everyone is getting the best bang for their buck out of their > hardware, and would be supporting just 1 open source OS, I don't think > anyone would be complaining and this bug would dissolve quickly. I belie= ve > LibreOffice/OpenOffice are good alternatives to MS Office and the e-mail > clients are fine, I think another major area that needs to be addressed by > the open source community is Exchange server. GMail has made some strides > in providing a replacement but it's not 100% in terms of group contact > management and other features that Exchange offers for businesses. So I > say we create the following and get this bug closed. > > Replacement for the following: > > Final Cut/Premiere > Pro Tools > Exchange/Outlook > Photoshop > Illustrator > > Here's the list I can come up with of possible replacements in Ubuntu, but > none seem totally up to par: > > Video editing > http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/top5-linux-video-editing-system-software/ (I= 've > used KDen live not the others here, it was as I said above fast but not > feature full) > Audio editing Rezound or Audacity, Rezound seems to be dead with regard to > development, Audacity is okay but again not great UX/UI interactions and > not a ton of features. > In terms of Mail servers I believe they're just missing the calendar side > of exchange, and contact management/integration in Active Directory, thou= gh > perhaps there's an alternative for that I'm unaware of > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MailServer I've also heard good things > about Citadel and Zimbra and had a brief stint playing with Zimbra but got > caught up in other work, some others talking about it here: > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=3D1231456 > Photo Editing: GIMP, decent but hard learning curve, kind of slow to start > up and generally work-flow in PhotoShop seems to be smoother, although th= is > coming from someone who has used PhotoShop far more. > SVG editor: Inkscape, haven't used this one honestly just assuming from > what I've heard from those who have that it's not as easy to use as > Illustrator (granted the Adobe suite has been refined by paid engineers f= or > some time and is still a resource hog) > > I think hardware vendors will support Linux more once consumers demand it, > and not before. > > So yah currently that's my two cents. Please respond and tell me how > wrong I am and point me towards all the bad ass software I'm missing out = on > :). > > > Thanks for reading if you got through that, > -Shaun > > PS I would love a Lenovo with Ubuntu pre-installed (and no Windows OEM fee > to boot). > > > On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 5:32 AM, MDV <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > >> In Australia there is a bug in the education system where the only OS >> they seem to use is Windows XP or 7. At a Tafe open day I asked if their >> network supported Ubuntu, the guy pauses and says no. >> >> This bug is everywhere I look! >> >> The Australian DET will not allow any Linux distrobutions to connect to >> the internet, they allow Macs as well, but not a single Linux! >> >> To fix this bug: >> - There should be at least 1 Linux computer per Computer room. (The Win7 >> Computers are so restrictive it's not funny) >> - Preferably they should remove this propiatary bias and allow to learn >> about an OS that will allow them to learn about it. >> - Even more preferable, remove Microsofts greedy corporate grip off of >> everyone, and get rid of Windows! >> >> -- >> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug >> report. >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> >> Title: >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> >> Status in Club Distro: >> Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: >> Confirmed >> Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: >> New >> Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: >> Invalid >> Status in dylan.NET: >> Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: >> Invalid >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: >> Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: >> Invalid >> Status in LibreOffice: >> In Progress >> Status in The Linux Kernel: >> New >> Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: >> In Progress >> Status in The Linux OS Project: >> In Progress >> Status in The Metacity Window Manager: >> In Progress >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: >> In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: >> Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: >> Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: >> Invalid >> Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: >> In Progress >> Status in Ubuntu: >> In Progress >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D package in Ubuntu: >> In Progress >> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: >> Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Cubuntu-express=E2=80=9D source package in Jaunty: >> Invalid >> Status in Arch Linux: >> Confirmed >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: >> Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: >> In Progress >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: >> Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: >> In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: >> New >> >> Bug description: >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplac= e. >> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix. >> >> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, >> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and >> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full >> potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> >> What happens: >> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software >> pre-installed. >> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed. >> >> What should happen: >> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software >> like Ubuntu. >> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features >> and benefits would be apparent and known by all. >> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes. >> >> To manage notifications about this bug go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions >> > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 04:10:23 -0000 Message-Id: <50175AAF.8020507@hal-pc.org> Some patch feedback. http://www.internetnews.com/blog/skerner/linux-desktops-dominate-at- black-hat.html It's a start! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 06:39:35 -0000 Message-Id: Folks, Windows 8 is another big chance for Linux on the Desktop. Should not be missed! And don't forget: The Linux usage is higher among sys-admins and those are often the ones also administrating the PCs of family and friends. Best regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Warren Hill (warren-hill) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 10:25:37 -0000 Message-Id: <20120903102537.31963.10617.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> I think we need to work with schools. When a kid comes home from school saying I need a computer for school then the parents naturally go out and buy something that does the same as the school computer. If however we can convince the schools to use Linux machines then that is what the kids will want. If that is what the kids want then that's what the shops will sell. It's = simple supply and demand. Increase the demand and the supply will follow. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 11:50:17 -0000 Message-Id: On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 12:29 PM, Warren Hill <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > I think we need to work with schools. When a kid comes home from school > saying I need a computer for school then the parents naturally go out > and buy something that does the same as the school computer. I already heard about a school telling parents that they need to buy a Windows-PC because of several Windows-material, they use. Never, ever would I buy a Windows-PC for my kids. Apart from that that they will never see anything else but Ubuntu until they get into school. Unfortunately they same ignorance I see in professional IT companies and software development companies. I have talked to a customer a few weeks ago who doesn't have a Windows AD-Domain and doesn't want to have Windows servers at all, but he told me that he has to use them because certain software is running only on Windows servers but they need that software... So certainly there would be demand but it does not really work with the supply. That's because people accept the Windows where the alternatives lack of functionality and where the vendors stick with their ignorance. Vendors can only ignore Linux where the alternatives lack and where the the critical mass hasn't yet switched to Linux/Ubuntu. Only then they would loose a big amount business without providing platform independent (or pure Linux) solutions. Best regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Ubuntu QA Website (ubuntuqa) Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2012 22:16:44 -0000 Message-Id: <20120908221644.14020.56574.malone@soybean.canonical.com> This bug has been reported on the Ubuntu ISO testing tracker. A list of all reports related to this bug can be found here: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/reports/bugs/1 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Ricardo J. Arteta (recontrapanche) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 22:51:59 -0000 Message-Id: <20120914225159.3299.42070.malone@wampee.canonical.com> This might be a good oportunity to gain market share: http://battellemedia.= com/archives/2012/09/am-i-an-outlier-or-are-apple-products-no-longer-easy-t= o-use.php By the way, I use kde because for me has the best family of programs, but s= till has many UX problems that some times makes me wonder if I should chang= e, but yet again, I cannot find a better desktop environment --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Guruprasad (lgp171188) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 15:28:52 -0000 Message-Id: <20120929152852.21194.93833.malone@soybean.canonical.com> Bump. Just wondering if we have completed a full cycle from this bug #1 to #1055766 (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome- terminal/+bug/1055766). Perhaps another bug for liberation? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 22:33:56 -0000 Message-Id: On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 5:28 PM, Guruprasad wrote: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-terminal/+bug/1055766 While funny on one side, it seems that some more important issues are overlooked currently: "ubuntu 12.04 completely freezes frequently." https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/993= 187 "This bug affects you and 305 other people"... "Window management - Cursor position changes relative to window while dragging windows" https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/201681 "This bug affects you and 74 other people"... "Automatic remount of safely removed drive" https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/792085 "This bug affects you and 68 other people"... "Dragging and holding a selection over an entry in the Launcher should spread out windows belonging to that application" https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/607796 "This bug affects you and 114 other people"... "pdftops CUPS filter has several problems" https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/poppler/+bug/382379 "This bug affects you and 50 other people"... "xmlcopyeditor does not start - needs a no-change rebuild in both Precise and Quantal" https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xmlcopyeditor/+bug/901547 "This bug affects you and 34 other people"... "Drag & Drop of browser links to the desktop does nothing" https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1012633 "This bug affects you" (wonder why only affects me - however, bug is confirmed)... "Error while burning - some files may be corrupted on the disc" https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/brasero/+bug/367037 "This bug affects you and 28 other people" Just to mention a few... Sincerely, I give a s... on Amazon search results in the Dash - at least not until all of the above are fixed. Best regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2012 00:37:18 -0000 Message-Id: <5068E5BE.7040504@hal-pc.org> On 09/30/2012 05:33 PM, Martin Wildam wrote: > On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 5:28 PM, Guruprasad wrote: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-terminal/+bug/1055766 > > While funny on one side, it seems that some more important issues are > overlooked currently: I would say far more than funny. :) But also, quite sad. In the rush to be everything to the new user, the experienced user is=20 being thrown under the bus. (You may argue that this is not your=20 intent, but the view from under the bus says intent is not the only=20 issue.) I have not seen an exodus like this since Windows ME. And it=20 is not just Unity (since now you can get full Gnome 2 functionality=20 without to many ugly hacks) or the Amazon ads (since your can turn them=20 off) or the dumping of the alternate install disk, a tool without which=20 this system I am typing on currently now could not have been installed=20 on. (Graphics glitch which while fixable, it required changing things on=20 the install and a reboot, something hard to do on a Live CD) It is the fact that over and over (including in the humorous thread=20 listed) we are being told we are wrong. (Example=20 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-terminal/+bug/1055766/comme= nts/4=20 ) We are being told that they way we choose to do things is not the way=20 they should be done, and if we don't like it, go to Lubuntu. The thing=20 is that when you do that, you loose people. (Not just to Lubuntu, but=20 you loose the spirit they once had.) I still promote Ubuntu, but not=20 like I once did. I was the recruitment guy for the Houston LoCo. I=20 sponsored Ubuntu hours, and launch parties. I even mentioned Ubuntu in=20 an InformationWeek interview. I worked to get Ubuntu installed on=20 Desktops in two different companies I worked in since I started using=20 Breezy, but I would not do so now. (I still recommend it for=20 non-technical new users and tablet fans.) It is far to risky. In the rush to get the new people, I am seeing something I had not seen=20 in the Ubuntu community before; Churn. Churn is expensive, and is a=20 regression towards fixing Bug1. I am not saying the direction you are=20 going is a bad one. Just to look at the people you are leaving behind... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2012 08:18:47 -0000 Message-Id: On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 2:37 AM, houstonbofh <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > In the rush to be everything to the new user, the experienced user is > being thrown under the bus. (You may argue that this is not your > intent, but the view from under the bus says intent is not the only > issue.) I have not seen an exodus like this since Windows ME. And it > is not just Unity I like unity although I consider myself to be a power-user. It's not unity that is the problem and since 12.04 it works quite well. However, there are a few extremely annoying details (samples see buglist I posted before) that should get fixed before implementing new stuff. Finish one thing before introducing more new and unstable stuff. Already now I am worrying about wayland - although I perfectly understand and appreciate that decision, I worry there will be major issues in the beginning that makes it unusable for at least two versions of Ubuntu. It's the same as you don't need to talk somebody about self-fulfillment, who doesn't have a flat to live in. The basics must be solved before you can take it up to the next level. > (I still recommend it for > non-technical new users and tablet fans.) It is far to risky. I also trying to get Ubuntu spread - but a) I do not try to talk somebody into Ubuntu any more, I just tell them to choose a distribution they like and b) yes, I also feel be more on the risky side than ever (although there are different reasons for that which are not all the fault of Canonical). > In the rush to get the new people, I am seeing something I had not seen > in the Ubuntu community before; Churn. Churn is expensive, and is a > regression towards fixing Bug1. I didn't know the word "Chrun" and looked it up in the dictionary getting several very different translations. Pretty sure, I don't get you right here. Best regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2012 16:08:19 -0000 Message-Id: <1349107699.20662.YahooMailClassic@web28901.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) I think the switch to Unity is beginning to pay off.=C2=A0=20 Other distros that decided to write their own flavour of the new Gnome are going to get increasingly bogged-down with that.=C2=A0 Hopefully they might be able to combine a few of those projects and at least one will remain sustainable and go in a good direction.=C2=A0 It's a bit of a gamble though and there is no certainty in what they are doing.=C2=A0 Ubuntu is primarily a gateway project to help people migrate away from non-Gnu&Linux.=C2=A0 As such it is still highly successful.=C2=A0 Even if a= lot of people are still jumping-ship it doesn't really=C2=A0 hurt Ubuntu all that much.=C2=A0 Most of those people are likely to be working upstream in projects such as LibreOffice and other programs that are often used in Ubuntu.=C2=A0 By working upstream they help more than one distro.=C2=A0 Unity is becoming increasingly useful to power-users so many of those people will probably return but with new-found (or rediscovered) skills and interests and hopefully some interesting new ideas too.=C2=A0 I wasn't a huge fan of Unity at the start but i had a feeling that things would go this way.=C2=A0 Fortunately for me i am really happy with Unity in the 12.04 so i was able to stick with the 10.04 and then smoothly 'upgrade' (actually did a fresh reinstall on most machines) from one LTS to the next.=C2=A0 So, for me it's all been a bit of a storm in a tea-cup.=C2=A0=20 Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2012 20:54:47 -0000 Message-Id: On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 6:08 PM, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > I think the switch to Unity is beginning to pay off. Mee too. However, I am experiencing other issues that do make me more worry - I think I have mentioned that earlier. Currently I am reinstallating the laptop of my father because he was accidently clicking the upgrade button on his 10.04 and then he couldn't either re-login.... - Such experiences worry less experienced people as they cannot fix it on their own (I tried a while to fix it without success and then I decided that data and settings-backup + clean reinstall is maybe the far better option) and they loose trust into their OS (although my father uses Ubuntu for a longer time now he still uses a second Windows PC also - and now switched fully back to the windows machine until I have time to fix his Ubuntu-Laptop :-( ). Best regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Ma Hsiao-chun (mahsiaochun) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 06:09:18 -0000 Message-Id: <20121019060918.11610.64536.malone@soybean.canonical.com> The current ubuntu.com shows a laptop with one Super key covered with Ubuntu logo and another unchanged, anyone? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 06:37:55 -0000 Message-Id: Hi, On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 8:09 AM, Ma Xiaojun wrote: > The current ubuntu.com shows a laptop with one Super key covered with > Ubuntu logo and another unchanged, anyone? What the hack should I do on an Ubuntu laptop with a Windows key... ;-) My laptop has also just the Ubuntu key. When you buy the stickers at the Canonical shop, you get either some exactly sized for that key: http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=3D718 It's one of the things I usually do while the installation is running. ;-) Best regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Randall Ross (randall) Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:47:25 -0000 Message-Id: <20121112164725.31652.17676.malone@soybean.canonical.com> @kxra: Rather than modify this bug to extend to all "proprietary systems", please open a new bug. The entire history and comment chain is based on the original bug opened by sabdfl, and should be preserved. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Marius B. Kotsbak (mariusko) Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:02:07 -0000 Message-Id: <20121113130207.16541.90338.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> Randall: the change that has happened is that Microsoft has no majority market share in computing as a whole, as it is just in desktop market they still have it. In mobile market, Linux based (but otherwise much proprietary) Android as the majority together with Apple. In the server market, Linux and Ubuntu has a major market share. Also, the change from Microsoft to Apple in the title does not help on the proprietary dominance . --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:58:40 -0000 Message-Id: <1352815120.93834.YahooMailNeo@web28905.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) MS never had a majority market-share in computing as a whole.=C2=A0 Most pe= ople only notice what happens on the one machine sitting on their desk.=C2= =A0 They assume the entire rest of the world must be using exactly the same= thing that keeps crashing on their machine, from massive supercomputers to= tiny phones and up to the space station, Mars and beyond and the ocean flo= or and upwards.=C2=A0=20 However, none of that has ever really been run on Windows, or at least not = for long.=C2=A0 Most have been using Unix-based operating systems.=C2=A0 Ho= wever most office and home users have only been aware of using Windows on t= heir own personal machines.=C2=A0=20 Now that people are exploring other types of machines and moving away from = just personal desktops they find themselves increasingly moving away from W= indows.=C2=A0=20 Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Ma Hsiao-chun (mahsiaochun) Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 20:43:18 -0000 Message-Id: <20121113204318.17238.62265.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> I wonder how much we should care about mobile market. Most people still using Windows for gaming, personal use, company use , emb= edded system (e.g., ATM). Many education institution still teaches Microsoft lock-in stuff. Linux desktop or Ubuntu desktop's share is still around 1% niche. Think about GNOME's 1010 (have 10% share at 2010) goal and the reality. We really need certain share in desktop market. Even in mobile market, Google's Linux based Android is successful. Other Li= nux based system virtually all failed. A notable company even switched to t= he Windows Phone camp. It's a pleasure for me and probably other "life hackers" to see Ubuntu runs= on Nexus 7. But this kind of stuff won't change the market landscape in a= ny way. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 21:17:52 -0000 Message-Id: On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 9:43 PM, Ma Xiaojun wrote: > I wonder how much we should care about mobile market. Apart from phone-calling the mobile market (tablets and smartphones) is mostly for consuming (web surfing, news-reading, video, ...). A "real" computer (laptop, desktop or at least netbook) is needed for production work (design, book-writing, software-development, CAD, image-editing and -processing, desktop-publishing, ...). Both types of work (consumption such as news reading can be a needed part of work for several jobs) are required and must be considered in general. This does not necessarily mean that both worlds must be considered in bug 1. > We really need certain share in desktop market. Although some say the PC era is over - I don't share this opinion. Maybe the desktop-era is over, but certainly not the laptop-era. So I agree that desktop market is still a needed focus. > Even in mobile market, Google's Linux based Android is successful. Other = Linux based system virtually all failed. Indeed, agree. > It's a pleasure for me and probably other "life hackers" to see Ubuntu ru= ns on Nexus 7. > But this kind of stuff won't change the market landscape in any way. Not sure, from all attempts to have one OS for desktop and mobile I think, Ubuntu is doing the best job here - OS looks more the same on both platforms (mobile and desktop) which helps all people having troubles using technical stuff - or docking your smart phone into a docking station with big screen, mouse and keyboard and have your working desktop there looks nice. However, there are a few implications with this scenario: a) Have a fitting docking station wherever you go. - Requires a certain market share until this can be expected. Otherwise no gain as you would need to carry your own docking station aroun= d. b) Having enough power and battery life in your smart phone. Otherwise laptop or netbook makes a lot more sense. c) People want using their computer on many different places. Otherwise they are still perfectly fine with their desktop PC. There are people using the computer mainly at work or mainly at home and while on the road just checking email or doing minimum internet surfing (for which the smart phone is enough). IT people often apply their thoughts of computer use to others which is often not a valid assumption. So, to make a long story short, yes, desktop market should still be a major focus and the mobile market should probably be handled on a different bug. BTW: Bug 2 seems to be still not set yet and could be used for that. ;-) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 21:40:49 -0000 Message-Id: <1352842849.65446.YahooMailNeo@web28906.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) The desktop is not dead.=C2=A0 It's resting.=C2=A0=20 Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Indian Art (goldfish-aol) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:50:55 -0000 Message-Id: <20121122165056.2608.10437.malone@soybean.canonical.com> Why can't we have an OS ballot like the Europeans have some Browser ballot? Can we start a movement where where ODF format support in mandatory for all Governments so that LibreOffice on Ubuntu has a fair chance? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Sam_ (and-sam) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2012 18:55:55 -0000 Message-Id: <20121203185556.1057.5059.malone@soybean.canonical.com> Others will do the work for Ubuntu. http://www.businessinsider.com/steve-ballmers-nightmare-is-coming-true-2012= -11 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: john ridley (noahwuzhere) Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2012 14:19:10 -0000 Message-Id: <20121207141910.24497.76562.malone@wampee.canonical.com> The problem lies in Linux' marketing. As power users, we can carry this effort and make linux #1. Simply go speak at schools, colleges, and libraries on the benefits of open source technologies (emphasize the free aspect as well as the lack of viruses.) I already do this at my local universities and have converted hundreds of MS users to linux. I even have turned some of the professors at these colleges into linux evangelicals. I find that kids in college are never taught that there are alternatives to Apple and Windows. When I tell them that I went through college and run my business with FREE and VIRUS FREE software their jaws fall on the floor. By the end of the class they are downloading and installing ubuntu on their laptops while I am speaking. I even had one gentleman who converted his entire music studio to linux as the overhead of keeping Apples was killing him. He just didn't know any other way. Bottom line, it will take effort from everyone of us to fix this bug. Get out in your community and tell them about the benefits of open source. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2012 15:43:12 -0000 Message-Id: @John: I am a big advocate of Linux and agree with you that many simply do not know any alternative. I personally do run - against all odds - my Workstation on Ubuntu in a nearly Windows-only company. Nobody, neither in IT nor in management is ever considering Linux (and Mac). And I had a similar situation at another company last year. In both cases there are product decisions done that make it very hard for me as a Linux user (ranging from IE-only web-apps - yes, still done in Microsoft-brainwashed environments - to other windows-only apps). None of the internal installation and setup documentations do ever contain information for Linux users. Similar situation when it comes to VPN clients used at different clients. Only with a lot of begging they try to get me a Linux client (if available). I got a new co-worker in august and got him to install Ubuntu after some driver-troubles when installing Windows on his company laptop. Guess what: He migrated back to Windows as he noticed a whole bunch of workarounds he needed to do. It started with the fact that he as a support-guy needs to use a IE-only trouble ticket system. Attempts with IE under Wine/Playonlinux) failed because of stability issues. Not to tell about some TeamViewer glitches on Linux (extremely annoying when TeamViewer is one of the only remote-support tools that work on Linux and you either pay for it when using it for the daily job). Apart from that I had a few issues on my workstation myself that have nothing to do with the Windows environment, I have to cope with: I had lock-up and reboot issues after switching to 12.04 (several different reasons - see https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/993187 just for example). So far everything solved with tweaking, manual updates and hand-work. Most annoying: The current kernel status is not stable (not only for me) and so I currently use 12.04 with the manually installed 3.5.0-18 kernel. But this means, I need to manually upgrade to newer versions with security updates. :-( - Stuff I cannot put onto the shoulders of the "normal" user. - BTW: Most major distros these days have problems - be it stability issues with changing desktop environments or "early-adopter" style run to newer technologies when finally older ones got stable enough (nearly every month I read about some planned change - I already worry about what will be after change to wayland...). Compiz is also such a thing - finally quite stable (for me personally since about september or october) I hear that they want to throw it out for the sake of something else. So - by now - status for me is: a) I finally (after a lot of extra analyses, bug reporting, testing etc) got - again - a very stable system with Ubuntu 12.04 + kernel 3.5.0-18. And this although I use a Canonical-certified machine! Unfortunately with some manual udpates that now mean I don't get newer versions automatically through normal update channel. - However, at least I am ok. b) I currently do not try to convince other people to Linux/Ubuntu because they will blame me if some windows-only crappy thing does not work or some shitty windows-only file format is sent to them and they can't cope with it. If somebody really wants to have Linux, I will help of course, but so far I am quite fine by telling people, that I don't fix their Windows machines. Lost some "friends" - but only those I don't care about after noticing the reason why they keep their contact with me. But - to fix Bug 1 from current point of view: 1. Things must work out-of-the-box again (we had this status already but IMHO currently somehow lost) and Ubuntu must be rock-solid and stable again. My current experience in comparison with Windows 2008r2 over the last months is: Far more lock-ups/freezes and accidential reboots than on Windows Servers I need to work on. Far more RDP connection drops (remmina still crashing at least once a day on my machine). 2. Before doing marketing for Linux/Ubuntu, marketing for open standards is required - I mean open protocols and open file formats that can be handled on all platforms. In the ideal world it should be irrelevant which OS you are using. To real success of Linux/Ubuntu there need to be less barriers. Regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2012 00:15:31 -0000 Message-Id: > Guess what: He migrated back to Windows as he noticed a whole bunch of > workarounds he needed to do. It started with the fact that he as a > support-guy needs to use a IE-only trouble ticket system. Attempts > with IE under Wine/Playonlinux) failed because of stability issues. What about virtualbox + Windows + IE? > Not to tell about some TeamViewer glitches on Linux (extremely > annoying when TeamViewer is one of the only remote-support tools that > work on Linux and you either pay for it when using it for the daily > job). There are also rdesktop for RDP. But yes we would need a lot more tools. =20 > Apart from that I had a few issues on my workstation myself that have > nothing to do with the Windows environment, I have to cope with: I had > lock-up and reboot issues after switching to 12.04 (several different > reasons - see https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/993187 just for > example). So far everything solved with tweaking, manual updates and > hand-work. Most annoying: The current kernel status is not stable (not > only for me) and so I currently use 12.04 with the manually installed > 3.5.0-18 kernel. But this means, I need to manually upgrade to newer > versions with security updates. :-( - Stuff I cannot put onto the > shoulders of the "normal" user. - BTW: Most major distros these days > have problems - be it stability issues with changing desktop > environments or "early-adopter" style run to newer technologies when > finally older ones got stable enough (nearly every month I read about > some planned change - I already worry about what will be after change > to wayland...). Compiz is also such a thing - finally quite stable > (for me personally since about september or october) I hear that they > want to throw it out for the sake of something else. That's why I install RHEL/CentOS on novice users. Its far from fancy, but n= oone can blame EL for being unstable. > So - by now - status for me is: > a) I finally (after a lot of extra analyses, bug reporting, testing > etc) got - again - a very stable system with Ubuntu 12.04 + kernel > 3.5.0-18. And this although I use a Canonical-certified machine! > Unfortunately with some manual udpates that now mean I don't get newer > versions automatically through normal update channel. - However, at > least I am ok. That's bad. Certified hardware should be supported, or the certification be= comes useless. > b) I currently do not try to convince other people to Linux/Ubuntu > because they will blame me if some windows-only crappy thing does not > work or some shitty windows-only file format is sent to them and they > can't cope with it. If somebody really wants to have Linux, I will > help of course, but so far I am quite fine by telling people, that I > don't fix their Windows machines. Lost some "friends" - but only those > I don't care about after noticing the reason why they keep their > contact with me. Whoever gave you the idea of don't fixing their Windows machines? :) Some actually stick to Linux because I and others do not support Windows. T= hey bitch about it, but they are free to do as they please. > But - to fix Bug 1 from current point of view: > 1. Things must work out-of-the-box again (we had this status already > but IMHO currently somehow lost) and Ubuntu must be rock-solid and > stable again. My current experience in comparison with Windows 2008r2 > over the last months is: Far more lock-ups/freezes and accidential > reboots than on Windows Servers I need to work on. Far more RDP > connection drops (remmina still crashing at least once a day on my > machine). That's why I stick to EL when I can. It has been rock solid for man years a= nd do not disappoint me. Of course with three different mayor versions (4, = 5 and 6) supported in parallel they can make sure that the two first are ro= ck solid while keeping the latest a bit edgy. However I am sure that when t= hey release EL 7 this will also apply to EL 6. Ubuntu is a lot sexier, but on enterprise servers i prefer stable and reliable. > 2. Before doing marketing for Linux/Ubuntu, marketing for open > standards is required - I mean open protocols and open file formats > that can be handled on all platforms. In the ideal world it should be > irrelevant which OS you are using. To real success of Linux/Ubuntu > there need to be less barriers. This is the mayor issue today. The popularity of Firefox and Chrome did a lot for Linux in defeating IE. However some artifacts like Flash (not lightspark but the adobe version) and proprietary office packages have to be defeated as well. Html+JavaScript and Java are on the racetrack here. However web standards (and their implementation) are not up to the task yet. Java may be further ahead because OpenJFX and possible OpenGL support in the Java standard. However the development process are not very transparent. Also office documents continue to be a problem. Documents from open/libre-office do not work well with Microsoft Office and vice versa. This is the far worst problem. One solution would be to have a OpenOffice-comatible import filter for Microsoft Office. However we also be able to open Office documents properly. One of my brightest ideas here are to make a linux emulation layer for Windows. Similar to what Wine is to Linux. Then we could RPM/DEB our applications to a windows system and have some of the Linux experience which will smoothen the migration. I know that many Windows users would use it just because of the package management. Who don't remember the pain of getting openoffice + pidgin + firefox and other FOSS applications AND manually keep them all updated? Automatic yum or apt upgrades would make the Windows environment a lot maker, and lure users towards FOSS software while doing so. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2012 08:34:28 -0000 Message-Id: <1355042068.44385.YahooMailNeo@web28904.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) The problem with the MS Office formats us that they are not consistent across different versions of MS Office itself.=C2=A0 The version they have managed to get registered as an ISO standard is different again.=C2=A0 Even worse is that MS's installer claims there will be inconsistences between even the same version of MSO on their different OSes.=C2=A0 So a document written in MSO 2010 on Win7 may well have problems when opened in MSO 2010 on Win Xp.=C2=A0 The places the blame on any user that doesn't upgrade to the latest version= of their OS at the time when everyone else does and their latest version o= f MS Office when everyone else does.=C2=A0 When only a minority upgrade tho= se people get a little flack from people for causing problems but their cou= nter argument is that everyone else is being cheap and risking security pro= blems.=C2=A0 Once critical mass is achieved everyone else is seen as being = guilty if they haven't already upgraded and feels guilty themselves.=C2=A0 = So, when it's an MS program that fails to read an older version of the curr= ent MS format then it's the author that gets blamed.=C2=A0 When it's a non-= MS program then it's IT Support or the program that gets blamed.=C2=A0=20 The newest version of MS Office (called 365 this time) claims to have proper support for OpenDocument Format 1.2.=C2=A0 MSO 2010 and 2007 only supported ODF 1.0 which was quite a long way behind what all the other Office Suites were using at the time.=C2=A0 So MS were able to claim they supported ODF and try to blame all the other Suites for any problems.=C2=A0= =C2=A0 The question is why don't people realise what is right in front of their ey= es.=C2=A0 Why aren't they worried about what is going to happen to their ol= d documents.=C2=A0 They seem to just accept and be happy with the fact that= any documents they might need to access in a few years time, say around 5y= ears, needs to be printed out because it wont be readable otherwise.=C2=A0 = How is it that people are ok with that??=C2=A0=20 Of course some organisations (such as the US Senate allegedly) decide to se= ttle on a format based on MS's promises that they will always be able to re= ad it and then find that MS has already started withdrawing support for it.= =C2=A0 Again that somehow leads to non-MS programs being treated with suspi= cion.=C2=A0=20 Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?wrtKb2huwqsgKGpvaG4uZGVudG9uKQ==?= Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2012 10:10:27 -0000 Message-Id: http://meandubuntu.wordpress.com/ms-and-floss/ Please read this VERY carefully and cover to cover. The truth is actually very simple - it's not bugs (notice that bugs in proprietary crap never really stopped established proprietary crap vendors and neither did their approach to "fixing" them), the lack of marketing (notice how impossibly hard it is to make a dent in ANDROID after it was here "first" and managed to actually take off and the extremely poor standing of Winblow$ Phone despite all the hype) or anything else along these lines that's holding the adoption of free software. The root cause of most of our problems is that THOSE WHO STAND TO PROFIT FROM THE CURRENT STATUS QUO WILL STOP AT NOTHING TO MAINTAIN THEIR PROFITS. It doesn't even have to be LEGAL - all that matters is that all the dirt stays well hidden because nobody gets prosecuted for something nobody knows or cares about. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Graham (ubuntu-grahams) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2012 17:27:29 -0000 Message-Id: <20121209172730.16761.60683.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> Of course, we all know this, John. This is the cold hard face of profiteering. The problem is how to fix this bug without falling into that same devils trap. I'm sure Bill Gates with his "Our mission was to put a computer in every home and we've succeeded" stance feels very exonerated but this is one "good intention" road which quite definitely did lead to hell. The free software movement is not about profiteering, it's about enabling. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2012 22:41:56 -0000 Message-Id: On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 1:15 AM, Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: >> Guess what: He migrated back to Windows as he noticed a whole bunch of >> workarounds he needed to do. > What about virtualbox + Windows + IE? Yes, he could have done that - and tried it. But just think about any hyperlink (be it a TIF, PDF etc then all opening in the virtualbox where he then needs to have an application for everything there that it can be opened. Basically he then needs to keep two systems up-to-date). And that was just one of the annoyances - the IE-only app. >> Not to tell about some TeamViewer glitches on Linux (extremely >> annoying when TeamViewer is one of the only remote-support tools that >> work on Linux and you either pay for it when using it for the daily >> job). > There are also rdesktop for RDP. But yes we would need a lot more tools. RDP is definitely no alternative to TeamViewer! - For RDP you need an already established VPN connection (as neither the dummy Windows-Admin is exposing RDP port directly to the internet). Only a few customers give VPN to you so that you can connect whenever you want. > That's why I install RHEL/CentOS on novice users. Its far from fancy, but= noone can blame EL for being unstable. But those are a huge step back usually because they come with medieval versions of several software (e.g. LibreOffice), isn't it? >> So - by now - status for me is: >> a) I finally (after a lot of extra analyses, bug reporting, testing >> etc) got - again - a very stable system with Ubuntu 12.04 + kernel >> 3.5.0-18. And this although I use a Canonical-certified machine! >> Unfortunately with some manual udpates that now mean I don't get newer >> versions automatically through normal update channel. - However, at >> least I am ok. > That's bad. Certified hardware should be supported, or the certification = becomes useless. To be honest: I was deciding for the new laptop a few weeks after 12.04 release and my laptop was certified for 11.10 - and I am running 12.04 on it now. But it was the first certified hardware and I couldn't think of experiencing more problems than ever before. > That's why I stick to EL when I can. It has been rock solid for man years= and do not disappoint me. > Of course with three different mayor versions (4, 5 and 6) supported in p= arallel they can make sure > that the two first are rock solid while keeping the latest a bit edgy. > However I am sure that when they release EL 7 this will also apply to EL = 6. Apart from the enterprise versions comming around the corner with old versions usually (I know also from Debian) I was switching from Fedora to Ubuntu because Fedora is lacking hardware support. Interestingly (although all distributions somehow use the common Linux kernel) Ubuntu for me always showed the best hardware support. > Ubuntu is a lot sexier, but on enterprise servers i prefer stable and rel= iable. It's not just about "sexier". Although I initially did not like Unity, know I got more effective and don't want to miss it anymore. IMHO times of classic task bars are over and I didn't manage to get Cairo dock or AWN to the stability and comfort of Unity - even after many hours of playing around with the settings. > This is the mayor issue today. The popularity of Firefox and Chrome did > a lot for Linux in defeating IE. Yes, indeed - I agree. Without breaking the monopoly of IE situation for Linux-users would be far worse! > Java may be further ahead because OpenJFX and possible OpenGL > support in the Java standard. However the development process are not > very transparent. Fortunately I see a few business applications are using Java even for there desktop client (on server side a lot is Java, but on the desktop many stick to Windows-only .net clients). Java is IMHO ahead even for GUI development - just try to get a .net GUI to adapt it's widget sizes to different languages for example, which in Java is no problem since years, I couldn't get this feature working on .net neither using Winforms nor using WPF. Microsoft is causing a lot of migration work to developers and I got more and more angry upon Microsoft. After many years of Windows-only-Development, when switching to Java (and I only switched my focus to Java a few years ago) I started to enjoy programming again. > Also office documents continue to be a problem. Documents from open > /libre-office do not work well with Microsoft Office and vice versa. > This is the far worst problem. One solution would be to have a > OpenOffice-comatible import filter for Microsoft Office. However we also > be able to open Office documents properly. This is the wrong way IMHO. OO and LO work fine on Windows. People on Windows even should use that. :-) > One of my brightest ideas here are to make a linux emulation layer for > Windows. Similar to what Wine is to Linux. This could be helpful, but again an addional huge extra piece that will suffer from the same incompatibilities as Wine does. My experience with wine is that a) only a very few stuff is really working on wine and b) you are exposed to Windows viruses. On the Linux side there are already such layers available like cygwin or xming. Tried both and did not get convinced. > Then we could RPM/DEB our > applications to a windows system and have some of the Linux experience > which will smoothen the migration. I know that many Windows users would > use it just because of the package management. If you bring such Linux features to Windows there would be even less pressure for people to migrate to Linux. Package management is one of the benefits one gets when switching to Linux. Personally I would say: Windows users should drown in their own DLL hell! > Who don't remember the > pain of getting openoffice + pidgin + firefox and other FOSS > applications AND manually keep them all updated? LibreOffice, Firefox and Thunderbird all have their own update-feature and already automatically update on Windows. On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 9:34 AM, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > The problem with the MS Office formats us that they are not consistent > across different versions of MS Office itself. [...] Of course, the Microsoft formats are not the choice when you want a format that can be read in a reliable way even 15 years from now. Basically when archiving documents pretty everybody converts those documents to PDF. Of course they could also use the open office formats and sign them to be safe against content change. OO/LO would support that out-of-the-box. > So, when it's an MS program that fails to read an older version of the cu= rrent MS format then > it's the author that gets blamed. > When it's a non-MS program then it's IT Support or the program that gets = blamed. You are right - but you now gave me another argument that would help me after the day when I will decide to pay back Windows users with the same ignorance I get from them. > The newest version of MS Office (called 365 this time) claims to have > proper support for OpenDocument Format 1.2. MSO 2010 and 2007 only > supported ODF 1.0 which was quite a long way behind what all the other > Office Suites were using at the time. So MS were able to claim they > supported ODF and try to blame all the other Suites for any problems. One thing is opening and reading those formats. The other thing is saving it back in the same manner that OO/LO does not get the shit that MS is putting into the documents then. Just think of destroying styles. I really tried my best in designing templates that are compatible and can be used without major flaws in both office suites. I failed! It is impossible (even when assuming everybody is using MS Office 2010)! So the only way to get painless document sharing across OS is to get Windows-users to use OO/LO - fullstop. > Why aren't they worried about what is going to happen to their old docume= nts. > They seem to just accept and be happy with the fact that any documents th= ey might need to access in a few years time, > say around 5years, needs to be printed out because it wont be readable ot= herwise. > How is it that people are ok with that?? Some ignore the problem but serious companies convert their documents to PDF (or in the past often to TIF) which of course is not for editing then. Where editable versions are archived most indeed just use the original .doc, .docx etc formats and just close their eyes and hope (I know it as I am working in DMS and ECM field since years). On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 6:27 PM, Graham wrote: > The problem is how to fix this bug without falling into that same devils = trap. Not sure if I understand what you mean with "that same devils trap"? Which trap? Of incompatible formats? Or are you speaking of the main idea of bug 1 in having choice of OS when buying a PC? > I'm sure Bill Gates with his "Our mission was to put a computer in every > home and we've succeeded" stance feels very exonerated but this is one > "good intention" road which quite definitely did lead to hell. No, greed and the monopoly lead to hell, not the idea to put a computer in every home (apart from the fact that we are fare away from computer at every home - when you really look at world population and computer owners). Of course, when I say that everybody should use open office or libre office instead could lead from one monopoly to another - but there is a difference: Look at what happened with Open Office when Oracle tried to close it. OO got forked in an instant and now basically everybody switched to LO and Oracle lost a lot of trust. So investing into OO (or now LO) was and is always better than investing into Microsoft Office if you look at investment risk / protection. Best regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2012 23:09:55 -0000 Message-Id: On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 11:10 AM, =C2=BBJohn=C2=AB <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wr= ote: > http://meandubuntu.wordpress.com/ms-and-floss/ > Please read this VERY carefully and cover to cover. Did not read to the end of this very, very long article - however - I already knew a lot of that what I read. And yes, > The root cause of most of our problems is that THOSE WHO STAND TO PROFIT > FROM THE CURRENT STATUS QUO WILL STOP AT NOTHING TO MAINTAIN THEIR PROFIT= S. > It doesn't even have to be LEGAL - all that matters is that all the dirt > stays well hidden because nobody gets prosecuted for something nobody kno= ws > or cares about. of course this is a huge problems. But if you ask the "normal user" who is not really interested in computers, but just wants to do his/her work or doing his/her hobby with the help of the computer would ask you (as one of the experts - if not the only they know): "What do you recommand? What should I use?" - At least I am getting asked this by people and mostly the question comes out of the fact that their old computer gets too slow and they want to buy a new one. Lately I get asked more often what I do think of Apple for example which shows that people getting aware of Apple laptops because they maybe have an iPhone. And at this point it comes down to bugs because I know what is behind the marketing of Microsoft of maybe even Apple. But if I recommend Linux and then the people get back to me when their laptop frequently freezes and their work is gone then it is me who needs to explain. - I am not willing to get blamed - and loose the reputation as the one giving good IT advices (I mean my job is IT consulting - if people cannot rely on my advice - what should they rely on then...). That's why currently I do stay away from the recommendation to switch to Linux. Main reason: Quality problems This does not mean, that other operating systems do not have quality problems - but why changing from one thing that has problems to another that has other problems? In this case it is better to stay with the thing where you already know the problems a little better and know what to do (if it is reinstalling your PC every year or whatever). Best regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Graham (ubuntu-grahams) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 07:03:01 -0000 Message-Id: <20121210070301.17873.93113.malone@soybean.canonical.com> Martin, You are basically saying it's better to stay with the devil you know. I disagree because my experiences are not like yours. Firstly, I never recommend removing a users current installation and leaving them with something they are unfamiliar. I always set up machines to dual boot and leave them with the option to go back to their existing installation. This has a very high switchover rate, since they can compare one to the other and find the Linux installation is far more reliable and dependable. I talking about housewives, psychiatrists, clergymen, plumbers, care worker= s. These are the people I have deployed to and they do not look back. From your post, it seems you actually do not have any Linux experience to compare. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Achilles12 (cvg1-cool-man) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 07:13:55 -0000 Message-Id: <2015059542-1355123641-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-682085635-@b12.c6.bise7.blackberry> I agree with Graham. Dual booting is very practical & usable solution. The = fall back option to Windows helps sometimes.=20 Sent on my BlackBerry=C2=AE from Vodafone -----Original Message----- From: Graham Sender: bounces@canonical.com Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 07:03:01=20 To: Reply-To: Bug 1 <1@bugs.launchpad.net> Subject: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share Martin, You are basically saying it's better to stay with the devil you know. I disagree because my experiences are not like yours. Firstly, I never recommend removing a users current installation and leaving them with something they are unfamiliar. I always set up machines to dual boot and leave them with the option to go back to their existing installation. This has a very high switchover rate, since they can compare one to the other and find the Linux installation is far more reliable and dependable. I talking about housewives, psychiatrists, clergymen, plumbers, care worker= s. These are the people I have deployed to and they do not look back. >From your post, it seems you actually do not have any Linux experience to compare. --=20 You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug report. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 Title: Microsoft has a majority market share Status in Club Distro: Confirmed Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: New Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: Invalid Status in dylan.NET: Invalid Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid Status in LibreOffice: In Progress Status in The Linux Kernel: New Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: In Progress Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress Status in Tabuntu: Invalid Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid Status in Tv-Player: Invalid Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: In Progress Status in Ubuntu: In Progress Status in Arch Linux: Confirmed Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed Status in openSUSE: In Progress Status in Tilix Linux: New Bug description: Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to all." "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software gives= everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with whoever th= ey like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the spectrum it enab= les the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective experience and ex= pertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the other, we are able= to give access to essential software for those who couldn=E2=80=99t otherw= ise afford it =E2=80=93 an advantage that=E2=80=99s keenly felt by individu= als and organisations all over the world." =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0* http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubunt= u/our-philosophy Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and concentrates control over the technology which powers our society into the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic practices. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. Steps to repeat: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A01. Visit a local PC store. =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A02. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprieta= ry software. What happens: Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre- installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operating system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be proprietary. What should happen: A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0* http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0* http://www.debian.org/social_contract#gui= delines =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0* http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 08:04:24 -0000 Message-Id: On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 8:03 AM, Graham wrote: > You are basically saying it's better to stay with the devil you know. I did not want to say, that I find it better to stay with the devil I know - that's the behaviour of the users (regardless what the users say, that's the behaviour I observe. > I disagree because my experiences are not like yours. > Firstly, I never recommend removing a users current installation and > leaving them with something they are unfamiliar. I always help them a lot in the beginning - I don't leave them alone. However, of course, it is the unfamiliar thing in the beginning. > I always set up machines to dual boot and leave them with the option to > go back to their existing installation. > This has a very high switchover rate, since they can compare one to the > other and find the Linux installation is far more reliable and > dependable. I never do dual-boot installations - tried it a few times and it is additional complexity added. However, maybe I should try your way of offering the dual-boot. > I talking about housewives, psychiatrists, clergymen, plumbers, care work= ers. > These are the people I have deployed to and they do not look back. I cannot say that I have such a wide-spread target audience. I think there are two types of "normal users": Those who are interested in computers and do more than just email and web-surfing and those who are not. The latter is usually no problem to migrate. - However, this is always home users somehow where in general is less problematic. The problems arise when you have people who are e.g. working as freelancers and need to communicate a lot with other companies. >From your post, it seems you actually do not have any Linux experience to = compare. Oh I have several different experiences: I do manage the server at a very small company (3-4 people) and I helped migrating users with less and with more IT knowledge. - Far not so many as you - I think, but enough to know the pitfalls, as I can look back also to a few failures also (failure in the sense, that people did not continue to use Ubuntu or still use it for particular tasks only). I myself are facing the biggest hurdles as I am running my Ubuntu in a Windows-only environment in the office where whole IT department is fully Microsoft-conform. Just to make it clear: I do not want to say, that Linux or Ubuntu is failing. It's just that I am experiencing more issues during the last months than before. So this is, why I don't even understand the efforts put into discussions of shopping lenses and the like - such things are worth discussing and implementing when everything else is running fine. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Graham (ubuntu-grahams) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 09:02:07 -0000 Message-Id: <20121210090207.27698.6273.malone@gac.canonical.com> "I never do dual-boot installations - tried it a few times and it is additional complexity added. However, maybe I should try your way of offering the dual-boot." Martin, you are right it is more complex to deploy. I have developed a method of deployment which seems to cover most cases and= seems to be reasonably popular: 1. Basically repartition the current HDD to free a 10G space somewhere and = install Ubuntu into that. 2. Then mount the original partitions into Ubuntu to appear as folders on t= he desktop. 3. Then install as much of the equivalent software and get as much working = as possible. 4. Add a swap file into the Ubuntu installation (1-3G depending on free spa= ce) 5. Ensure Windows boots OK and make sure Ubuntu is the default. 6. Demonstrate to the user how to boot Windows and run through the Ubuntu e= quivalents, how to install software etc. 7. Leave them to it and be available to help. Once you do this you find that after a few months of them on their own, they sing the praises of Ubuntu and wonder how they put up with Windows. "The problems arise when you have people who are e.g. working as freelancers and need to communicate a lot with other companies." I am a freelancer so I have directly experienced this. My experience is this is purely FUD. I deal with agencies, consultancies and clients and all through I have used= Linux machines to do my business. Very rarely I have a stubborn customer who insists you use some Microsoft p= ackage. Once I go round the roundabout of complaining it doesn't work (but not tell= ing them why) they will allow you to provide a solution which works and mov= e on. "I myself are facing the biggest hurdles as I am running my Ubuntu in a Windows-only environment in the office where whole IT department is fully Microsoft-conform." As a freelancer I feel your pain with this one. Again I have a strategy for this, which basically involves installing Ubunt= u into virtualbox on whatever equipment they provide, then after a couple o= f weeks setting up dual boot and continuing with that. I usually avoid telling the client I have set up dual boot since this start= s the FUD again, but they usually never ask. -- So you are now asking why I go through all this pa-lava just to use Ubuntu = and why don't I just put up with Windows and keep the client happy? Again in my experience they thank the fact that I can keep near 100% uptime and connectivity when everyone else is complaining about their IT dept keep messing around with their machine and breaking it on patch Tuesday and locking them out of access. On more than one occasion I have been asked by my line managers to perform tasks on their behalf since they can't do it do to their companies enforced IT policy, or simply because my machine is the only one still working in the office! If you want support feel free to contact. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 09:35:21 -0000 Message-Id: On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 10:02 AM, Graham wrote: > I deal with agencies, consultancies and clients and all through I have us= ed Linux machines to do my business. > Very rarely I have a stubborn customer who insists you use some Microsoft= package. > Once I go round the roundabout of complaining it doesn't work (but not te= lling them why) > they will allow you to provide a solution which works and move on. Oh, maybe I shouldn't tell anybody that I am using Linux. This is usually one of the first things I tell just to ensure the cause of the (compatibility) problem can be found faster. - But you are right, I should also pay back with a little ignorance. > Again I have a strategy for this, which basically involves installing Ubu= ntu > into virtualbox on whatever equipment they provide, then after a couple o= f weeks setting > up dual boot and continuing with that. I never accept a job if they don't allow me to use Ubuntu. Usually they do, but then I am facing hurdles. Nothing impossible to get over, but leaving a lot of annoyances to remember or workarounds I need to do on a daily basis. I play it the other way round: My base system is Ubuntu and I have the Virtualbox-installation of Windows. > I usually avoid telling the client I have set up dual boot since this sta= rts the FUD again, but they usually never ask. Not sure if the next time I would prefer not to say it. Would be a problem if they then use internal stuff that is an absolute no-go for me. If I tell them first and have it as a precondition to even start working there, I have more arguments that they need to at least provide the minimum required environment to use Thunderbird for example (e.g. activating the IMAP service at the Microsoft Exchange server). Best regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 12:02:08 -0000 Message-Id: <50C5CF40.8040705@hal-pc.org> On 12/10/2012 03:35 AM, Martin Wildam wrote: > Oh, maybe I shouldn't tell anybody that I am using Linux. This is > usually one of the first things I tell just to ensure the cause of the > (compatibility) problem can be found faster. - But you are right, I > should also pay back with a little ignorance. This is one of my frustrations with ATT. When on the phone with support=20 if I say the word Linux, they instantly respond "Oh, we don't support=20 Linux." I reply, "I do not need you to support Linux. I can do that.=20 I need you to support your DSL." > I never accept a job if they don't allow me to use Ubuntu. Usually > they do, but then I am facing hurdles. Nothing impossible to get over, > but leaving a lot of annoyances to remember or workarounds I need to > do on a daily basis. I play it the other way round: My base system is > Ubuntu and I have the Virtualbox-installation of Windows. I do not have any Windows on my laptop, nor any VM. In the few places=20 where a Windows desktop was required, they provided it as a VM. Lee --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Graham (ubuntu-grahams) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 15:36:52 -0000 Message-Id: <20121210153652.24415.60421.malone@wampee.canonical.com> "This is usually one of the first things I tell just to ensure the cause of= the (compatibility) problem can be found faster." What actually happens is they refuse to continue until you try the Windows = platform solution. If you don't tell them it's Linux, they assume it is Windows and the questi= on never arises. The likelihood that they have problems with Windows/MAC uses it usually qui= te high too. You can then provide something which you magically got to work and they tha= nk you for getting them out of the situation. "I never accept a job if they don't allow me to use Ubuntu." You are braver than me. I'd rather avoid the issue until contracts are signed and I'm onsite. It's harder to back out of a contract than not to sign in the first place. "If I tell them first and have it as a precondition to even start working there, I have more arguments that they need to at least provide the minimum required environment to use Thunderbird for example (e.g. activating the IMAP service at the Microsoft Exchange server)." This is the utopian view, but I find that clients will simply move to the next CV. Most exchange servers now have web access enabled so employees can work fro= m home. This means support is not an issue for email, LibreOffice will do a pretty = good job of interfacing with Microsoft Office stuff and you can CIFS mount = the windows shares. I find it is better basically not to tell anyone you are using Linux until you either have to (for support/request reasons) or after you have been working on the clients project awhile (like a month) and then reveal it. Once you have established that it is not a hindrance to the project and working relationship they are more likely to just let you get on with it. To tell them beforehand sets all sorts of bells ringing (for the wrong reasons) and then you become the "problem" with your weirdo software. I have worked with 10+ clients onsite on their internal networks since I started to use Linux and I have a 100% hit rate this way. Trust me, I do ensure they know I'm using Linux and let them find out why as the working relationship progresses, but I'm careful to ensure it is introduced the right way and the FUD is seen for what it is. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: teledyn (garym-teledyn) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 20:27:18 -0000 Message-Id: <20121213202718.17598.9541.malone@gac.canonical.com> this bug can be marked as closed now: Microsoft only has a 20% share according to this video released today by the Linux Foundation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DUnfx2qCj6Ao --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 14:14:56 -0000 Message-Id: <1355494496.3252.YahooMailNeo@web28905.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) An interesting mix of current stats and stories with along with projections= that would make sense if people knew about those stats and made intelligen= t choices based on them!=C2=A0=20 An extremely high percentage of the worlds supercomputers are already runni= ng Linux, the next highest percentage is Bsd and then other unix-based OSes= account for the rest.=C2=A0 Also i heard that Android does already beat iP= hone.=C2=A0 Even if it doesn't iPhone is still a unix-based platform anyway= so either way it's a win for us.=C2=A0 Windows is only 4th or 5th place on= smart-phones and i think tablets and such too.=C2=A0 Employers still deman= d MS experience without realising that most of the time they aren't even us= ing Windows themselves (it's only when they are at their desk).=C2=A0=C2=A0 Great video!=C2=A0 Thanks for cheering me up on this wet and windy Friday (= and that is just inside the office) Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Indian Art (goldfish-aol) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 18:13:37 -0000 Message-Id: <20121214181337.25840.78143.malone@gac.canonical.com> Aren't monopolies illegal? Please can we have an OS ballot? Like, I think, the Europeans have an OS ballot. We can get expertise from Opera Browser guys on this ballot. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: magilus (magilus) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 01:42:43 -0000 Message-Id: <20121216014243.25617.48069.malone@gac.canonical.com> As part of fixing this bug, you should make sure that Ubuntu certified computers shipping with Ubuntu pre-installed work as good as computers certified and shipped with Windows. See: https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu-certification/+question/216889 This is quite frustrating, I will never ever buy a Ubuntu certified system = anymore. What for? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Ma Hsiao-chun (mahsiaochun) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 02:09:57 -0000 Message-Id: On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 7:42 PM, pirast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > As part of fixing this bug, you should make sure that Ubuntu certified > computers shipping with Ubuntu pre-installed work as good as computers > certified and shipped with Windows. Agree. > See: https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu-certification/+question/216889 > This is quite frustrating, I will never ever buy a Ubuntu certified syste= m anymore. What for? I can understand your feeling. However, if you ever buy crappy Windows certified system? Will you give up Windows entirely. Your problem belongs to the manufacturer, not the operating system. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: magilus (magilus) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 02:36:28 -0000 Message-Id: <20121216023628.26154.30080.malone@gac.canonical.com> Well, Ubuntu/Canonical certified that Laptop, so that it gets a shiny Ubunt= u sticker and can be sold as "Ubuntu certified". I would expect at least some person from Canonical/Ubuntu to look at it bef= ore certifying it, so that there's an acceptable user experience available. I have bought many (>10) Windows certified systems, and they all worked jus= t fine. It's the first time in my life that I bought a computer system that does no= t do what I expect it to do (bad battery life, fan running all the time, ha= rdware/touchpad not working right - never had that before). That's a pretty poor out of the box experience, isn't it? And saying that the problem belongs to the manufacturer is not fair I think: See http://www.canonical.com/engineering-services/oem-services/oem-services= : Dell has at least booked the Standard package from there, which includes = "Hardware enablement". Has Canonical made the hardware work, what it promis= es there to do? No! Has Canonical provided any fixes upstream? No.=20 The way it is I would not say that Ubuntu is a serious competitior to Windo= ws. Back to the drawing board. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Ma Hsiao-chun (mahsiaochun) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 03:08:30 -0000 Message-Id: On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 8:36 PM, pirast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Well, Ubuntu/Canonical certified that Laptop, so that it gets a shiny Ubu= ntu sticker and can be sold as "Ubuntu certified". > I would expect at least some person from Canonical/Ubuntu to look at it b= efore certifying it, so that there's an acceptable user experience availabl= e. > > I have bought many (>10) Windows certified systems, and they all worked j= ust fine. > It's the first time in my life that I bought a computer system that does = not do what I expect it to do (bad battery life, fan running all the time, = hardware/touchpad not working right - never had that before). > > That's a pretty poor out of the box experience, isn't it? > > And saying that the problem belongs to the manufacturer is not fair I thi= nk: > See http://www.canonical.com/engineering-services/oem-services/oem-servic= es: Dell has at least booked the Standard package from there, which include= s "Hardware enablement". Has Canonical made the hardware work, what it prom= ises there to do? No! Has Canonical provided any fixes upstream? No. > > > The way it is I would not say that Ubuntu is a serious competitior to Win= dows. Back to the drawing board. Most of your points are pretty valid. I've used Ubuntu since 5.10 but never bought Ubuntu certified computer. Have you tried given support contact before using community channel like this bug? I'm familiar with Ubuntu community so I subscribe to this bug. But if I'm a random customer I won't post my review here. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 14:35:40 -0000 Message-Id: <1355668540.98750.YahooMailNeo@web28905.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) Also i think it might help to just run a standard programs updates/upgrades= while sticking with the 12.04 LTS.=C2=A0 With the Unity interface i usuall= y use the Software Manager to install Synaptic Package Manager and then do = all my installs and upgrading from Synaptic.=C2=A0 Dunno what came as stand= ard but i tend to add Gimp and a few other things for my work.=C2=A0=20 It really should all work out of the box.=C2=A0 I'm sure Canonical would be= very interested to hear that there are problems.=C2=A0=20 Good luck and regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: magilus (magilus) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 15:19:50 -0000 Message-Id: <20121216151951.26154.5378.malone@gac.canonical.com> Hi Ma, thanks for your commitment :)=20 The Dell support does not have a clue, and on the Ubuntu-side I only have t= he option to rely on community based support. Basically, I am just trying to draw attention of officials to this problem. Personally, it really saddens me because I've been a free software advocate= and have been using Ubuntu since 4.10. Now I think that some things are going into the wrong direction : - Amazon integrated into search - bad hardware support for "certified" systems, while manpower goes into su= pporting Google Nexus (!! what for if even normal laptops are not supporte= d well) - manpower used to develop multiple desktop environments (GNOME 3, Unity, n= one of it being perfect), while I know much more severe desktop bugs that m= ight be worth looking into - little given back to upstream (i.e. for GTK, there is one person full-tim= e working on it, and hes not employed by Canonical) - still (since 2006) no results in making third party software easier to in= stall and manage on all products of the Linux platform (see https://wiki.li= nuxfoundation.org/en/Packaging) I'm not really requesting any help, because for sure there is a way to some= how compile a newer mouse driver supporting my alps touchpad, to take a new= er kernel improving fan control and run it with tweaked power options (I gu= ess I'd somehow figure it out). But after installing Windows and having it almost running perfectly after 3= 0 minutes (while I miss apt/yum package management), I have given up. Maybe= I will have a look at Ubuntu/Linux in 1 year again, and I would be really = happy if those things would be fixed, but I'm not that positive about it to= be honest. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 16:39:41 -0000 Message-Id: <1355675981.12643.YahooMailNeo@web28905.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) If you have really been using Ubuntu for 8 years then it seems=20 really strange to try using this thread to contact "officials".=C2=A0 I'm=20 sure you would have found better ways over the years.=C2=A0=C2=A0=20 Also it=20 seems strange that the 1st thing you tried was installing Windows!=C2=A0=20 Freshly installed Windows systems often need a lot of extra programs to=20 be installed and then a lot of updats&reboot cycles.=C2=A0 Even newly=20 bought Windows machines often need it and need their "teething troubles" sorted too.=C2=A0 I think most people with even just 1 years experience of= =20 using any Gnu&Linux distro would have simply tried a different=20 version of Ubuntu and/or another distro or 2 (such as Mint).=C2=A0=20 Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: magilus (magilus) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 19:30:34 -0000 Message-Id: <20121216193034.25462.1974.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> HI :) Well, the post that I created here originally was thought as a supplement t= o this bug (in order to break Microsoft's major market share, certification= has to be improved). And as Mark is the reporter of the bug, I thought the= re might be chance that he'd read it.=20 The rest is just a discussion emerged from my original post, in which I let flow in some things that I am unhappy with and which could be improved (sorry for offending anyone, if I did) While there may be other ways to contact the persons responsible for certif= ication, I do not know what is wrong of posting the feedback as a question = on Launchpad to which the Canonical Hardware Certification Team is subscrib= ed to (see question #216889). I did not install Windows first, I also tried other distributions, includin= g Fedora 18 Beta, which ships with a quite recent kernel. I do not see the point of trying Linux Mint (as it ships with the same Kern= el as Ubuntu) or a different version of Ubuntu (as I already tried two). For Windows, it worked pretty straight forward: It detected everything, except the touchpad and the harddrive acceleration sensor. Installed both drivers, and I was ready to go. Still better than having to compile a custom touchpad driver that adds support for my Alps touchpad. Just to sum it up, I do not want to harp on Ubuntu's hardware support - of course it is harder to support hardware if vendors do not provide drivers or anything. If I install Ubuntu on some machine, it is acceptable for me that I may have to tweak something, considering it is free and open. BUT: If I buy a Ubuntu certified machine (I suppose that Dell pays some money to Canonical for certification, rights to use the Ubuntu brand, Hardware enablement...), shipping with Ubuntu, I expect everything to work (as it is with Windows normally) and that the changes required to make the hardware work are made flow back upstream, so that it works with other distributions, too. Otherwise, I do not think that Ubuntu can not be seen as a serious competitor to Windows. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 20:50:38 -0000 Message-Id: Hi, On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > If you have really been using Ubuntu for 8 years then it seems > really strange to try using this thread to contact "officials". I'm > sure you would have found better ways over the years. I am not sure what is the best way to reach the official Canonical-members (not talking about the staff in the support or development - I am talking about the managers). I even tried emailing Jono some time ago and never got a response. The main reason why I am still subscribed to this bug is because once - a longer while ago there was a comment from Mark Shuttleworth (if authentical) and I hope he is sometimes having a look here. > Also it > seems strange that the 1st thing you tried was installing Windows! As far as I understood, it was already there. But anyway, I remember times when Ubuntu was claiming to solve a lot of problems, Windows users had - now the argument I see more often lately is " is not better on Windows." > using any Gnu&Linux distro would have simply tried a different > version of Ubuntu and/or another distro or 2 (such as Mint). Yes, but after some time you get also tired of distro-hopping. And however, I do see stability problems rising in pretty all distributions. Regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Ma Hsiao-chun (mahsiaochun) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 22:18:08 -0000 Message-Id: On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 9:19 AM, pirast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Hi Ma, thanks for your commitment :) > The Dell support does not have a clue, and on the Ubuntu-side I only have= the option to rely on community based support. That's probably the case for many Linux OEM systems. I once bought a desktop computer with Linspire pre-intsalled. I cannot find a way to start X so I gave up soon and installed Ubuntu 10.04. One guy asked a question about SUSE Enterprise Linux on his laptop the other day in local LUG mailing list, no one has a clue since no one used that distribution before. Ubuntu is a little better since there is a community. > Personally, it really saddens me because I've been a free software advoca= te and have been using Ubuntu since 4.10. > Now I think that some things are going into the wrong direction : > - Amazon integrated into search I hope you can discuss this issue somewhere else. > - bad hardware support for "certified" systems, while manpower goes into supporting Google Nexus (!! what for if even normal laptops are not supported well) That annoys me also. We are using, contributing, advocating Linux distributions but we have no clue what kinds of laptop is fully supported, even those with Ubuntu brand. I'm not aware of a well maintained hardware knowledge base for Linux or Ubu= ntu. There is no graphical hardware listing still, newbies still need to understand what is terminal and what is lspci/lsusb/... I tried to help solving a bug of hardware issue but I didn't get very active response. > - manpower used to develop multiple desktop environments (GNOME 3, Unity, none of it being perfect), while I know much more severe desktop bugs that might be worth looking into This problem somehow belongs to Red Hat I believe. They develop GNOME Shell that make many people unhappy. I don't think Ubuntu's decision to shipping a different DE is a problem. The problem is that Unity seems quite buggy. I use and contribute MATE, a GNOME 2 fork, now. > - little given back to upstream (i.e. for GTK, there is one person full-time working on it, and hes not employed by Canonical) That guy probably works for Red Hat? I'm not a fan of GTK3. http://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotting-in-threes/ For upstream contribution, I don't think Canonical actually developed that many things different from upstream of GTK. Are you a fan of Overlay scrolling? I'm not. > - still (since 2006) no results in making third party software easier to install and manage on all products of the Linux platform (see https://wiki.linuxfoundation.org/en/Packaging) Use Ubuntu Software Center if a third-party developer focus on Ubuntu. For distribution agnostic packaging, there is an interesting research work: http://www.pgbovine.net/cde.html > I'm not really requesting any help, because for sure there is a way to so= mehow compile a newer mouse driver supporting my alps touchpad, to take a n= ewer kernel improving fan control and run it with tweaked power options (I = guess I'd somehow figure it out). > But after installing Windows and having it almost running perfectly after= 30 minutes (while I miss apt/yum package management), I have given up. May= be I will have a look at Ubuntu/Linux in 1 year again, and I would be reall= y happy if those things would be fixed, but I'm not that positive about it = to be honest. I do dual-boot on my MacBook now. You may consider this option too. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: paolode (paolo-debortoli) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 14:06:29 -0000 Message-Id: <20121230140629.23876.35150.malone@gac.canonical.com> there are just a few firms (garlach44, system76 and others) selling pcs and servers with linux preinstalled. expanding linux in the server sector might be a very good first step. maybe one day linux enterprises and communities will own small pc firms. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2013 00:09:43 -0000 Message-Id: Hi, not sure, if anybody who can make decisions is still reading this, but I have installed Ubuntu 12.10 for a total beginner (this is what Ubuntu claims to be most adapted for): a) Never ever a total beginner is able to install and setup Ubuntu on his own - will always need help (I already wrote that a while ago)! This does not apply only for the installation and basic configuration, but also for online accounts (register new accounts - reuse existing ones - most people don't even remember or write down their passwords, decision what application to use for what task (depending on the person and tasks there can be major differences). Not all of this can be made simpler by the operating system. b) I just felt lucky to install the newest 12.10 (instead of the 12.04 that has been previously there on the same machine) and unfortunately - although already a good while ago the release - I rushed into a few annoying bugs like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1069504 or https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/848164 (quite similar bug descriptions). That ever worked since 10.04 as far as I remember - and now it does not - where this feature was never so important for me as it is now because the very beginner user (even beginner in mouse handling) now needs 2 more clicks onto ... ... an icon that cannot be made bigger (person also does not see very, very good). c) Apart from the fact that I did not have the impression that with the switch to upstart the startup process really got faster (on a two-processor-machine) it also seems to introduce problems. On my machine sometimes compiz does not come up fine, but who cares, I can restart it manually if it does not because I did the login too fast. But in this case I set the autologin for the beginner user and now I experience different problems that might occur as skype not started which happened once or - even worse - network manager is disabling wireless network after autologin. So now I must also train the user to make sure the right checkmarks are activated. d) For the beginner user the buttons for closing the window are too small. While that was no problem on Gnome2 in Ubuntu 9.04 up to 10.04 with the introduction of Gnome 3 and unity those buttons simply don't grow when I increase the font size in Universal access - and I cannot do this in the same way (by specifying the dpi) I could under Gnome 2 - Now I have only 3 choices (as in Windows 8-P). But at least on Windows the Window-Buttons grow together with the fonts. e) For recharging the mobile internet stick I had to register at the provider homepage with the stick's number and it sent me an SMS message. Guess what: I could not find any crappy application that was able to read the messages from the huawei USB stick (that fortunately worked out-of-the-box to get the internet connection). Finally I put the USIM card into one of my older phones and read the mesage with the initial password there. - Is this meant to be user friendly? f) I experience several options for the display not working as disabling of dimming of the screen. Somehow changing the settings and disabling the ambient light sensor in the bios now brought an acceptable solution - that worked on 10.04 on the same machine for sure! And so on and so forth! - I am really loosing the will of frickling around - neither with Windows nor with Linux - it is so sad, that such things do not work fine but on the other hand focus is put elsewhere (Amazon lenses and Ubuntu-Phones for example) while the laptop or PC is still (for a long, long time, I would bet) a very important tool. I am really loosing all kind of joy that way... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alberto Salvia Novella (es20490446e) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 00:25:49 -0000 Message-Id: <20130117002549.13173.121.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> I would say two things, one intellectual an one moral: - The intellectual: no one really knows why some important decisions are taken in certain direction in this project. For example like why in the Ubuntu One Client naming jumping the promise of branding "Ubuntu" only the project itself , offering privative software in the Software Center, prohibiting the selling of Ubuntu CDs, violating the European laws about digital privacy with the dash search, and using beta and unmaintained software for building the alpha versions. Many people perhaps will figure themselves, but not sharing the whys clearly is mostly completely destroying the culture of the project. - The moral: this bug's description say "a majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software", so this won't fit Ubuntu. I left Windows because I felt its software was bad and unsustainable, and later realized it was because of not being libre. Except for videogames, which are a pieces of software with their own peculiarities, I don't feel I'm using privative software although in Ubuntu. Privative software is buggy, inefficient, restrictive, malicious, and worse if you are not using Windows. This reasoning doesn't begin with freedom, but begins with software quality and leads to software freedom. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: nameremoved (errorwhywhywhy-deactivatedaccount) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 07:43:08 -0000 Message-Id: <20130117074308.877.38885.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Something needs to be done to get the OEM's to start making laptops without operating systems or a linux distro. For example, Dell appears to have broken their partnership with ubuntu, and on their website the laptops seem to only be bundled with Windows 7 or 8, with no option of having the laptop without an os. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 11:56:26 -0000 Message-Id: <1358423786.29666.YahooMailNeo@web28906.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) There might be proprietary software in the Software Centre but that is like= saying you can't walk into a high-street shop if you have no intention of = buying anything.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Of course you can still buy and sell Cds or Dvds with Ubuntu on and of course you can still sell support services either by the hour or as structured support for for a given length of time or whatever.=C2=A0 Selling the Cds/Dvds has always=C2=A0 been a bit of a moral grey area =3D it's allo= wed by the GPL but people sometimes tend to feel it's wrong somehow.=C2=A0 Selling support is fine and puts you in an open competitive market with plenty of fair competition that people could look-up online.=C2=A0 Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Ramchandra Apte (ramchandra.apte) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 12:08:04 -0000 Message-Id: +1 On 17 January 2013 17:26, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Hi :) > There might be proprietary software in the Software Centre but that is > like saying you can't walk into a high-street shop if you have no intenti= on > of buying anything. > > Of course you can still buy and sell Cds or Dvds with Ubuntu on and of > course you can still sell support services either by the hour or as > structured support for for a given length of time or whatever. Selling > the Cds/Dvds has always been a bit of a moral grey area =3D it's allowed > by the GPL but people sometimes tend to feel it's wrong somehow. > Selling support is fine and puts you in an open competitive market with > plenty of fair competition that people could look-up online. > > Regards from > Tom :) > > -- > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share > > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: > New > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in The Linux Kernel: > New > Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > Invalid > Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu: > In Progress > Status in Arch Linux: > Confirmed > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC > marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant > to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is > driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to > all." > > "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software > gives everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with > whoever they like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the > spectrum it enables the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective > experience and expertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the > other, we are able to give access to essential software for those who > couldn=E2=80=99t otherwise afford it =E2=80=93 an advantage that=E2=80=99= s keenly felt by > individuals and organisations all over the world." > * http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy > > Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and > concentrates control over the technology which powers our society into > the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles > innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious > anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic > practices. > > This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > 2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software. > > What happens: > > Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre- > installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operating > system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be > proprietary. > > What should happen: > > A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. > > * http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html > * http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines > * http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd > > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: nameremoved (errorwhywhywhy-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 05:16:34 -0000 Message-Id: <20130126051634.27327.18248.malone@gac.canonical.com> Here are some suggestions to help fix this bug: Firstly something that would appeal to the gaming market is an overclocking and underclocking feature, as some people prefer to do overclocking in their OS, but we don't appear to have any such programs. And other groups like to underclock their laptops to help fix overheating problems.. Secondly, something really needs to stop is Ubuntu spamming error messages = when there is a problem.=20 For example when Ubuntu has lost it's internet connection it will spam you = to type the password in atleast half a dozen times, and when a program has = crashed apport wil spam you to report the problem atleast half a dozen time= s. Thirdly, we NEED some form of advertising, as Micro$oft has almost fallen of its throne. Ads on the TV (For example) that tell people that Linux is the most secure OS ever and doen't get viruses would get people to make the switch. (But would the switch also cause undetected security problems to show themselves after being exploited by hackers?) Fourthly: Stability. Ubuntu definatly needs a netbook version again, as Ubuntu runs horribly on intel atom processors and lags like hell (I tried running Ubuntu on a 1.6Ghz dual-core intel atom that had 1gb of ram). However smaller distros like lubuntu seem to work well. Also, something as stupid as nautilus crashing when idle needs to be fixed. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 10:41:53 -0000 Message-Id: On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 6:16 AM, MDV <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Firstly something that would appeal to the gaming market is an > overclocking and underclocking feature, as some people prefer to do > overclocking in their OS, but we don't appear to have any such programs. > And other groups like to underclock their laptops to help fix > overheating problems.. http://helpdeskgeek.com/linux-tips/control-your-cpu-speed-from-the- ubuntu-indicator-applet/ > Secondly, something really needs to stop is Ubuntu spamming error message= s when there is a problem. > For example when Ubuntu has lost it's internet connection it will spam yo= u to type the password in atleast > half a dozen times Yes, you are right. I usually choose in the network menu to disconnect, when I face longer offline time. Of course then I don't see immediately when it is back - I have to test from time to time. > and when a program has crashed apport wil spam you to report the problem = atleast half a dozen times. In former times I got the option to report a bug and launchpad site was opened. Now it is the same shit as with Windows - I don't know if and where the error will be reported/posted to. In reality I don't see those messages as "spam" - I want to see if there is a problem and I do not want it to silently fail. However, the idea should be to get the appropriate stability in the way that those problems get fixed instead of muting the messages! > Thirdly, we NEED some form of advertising, as Micro$oft has almost > fallen of its throne. Ads on the TV (For example) that tell people that > Linux is the most secure OS ever and doen't get viruses would get people > to make the switch. (But would the switch also cause undetected security > problems to show themselves after being exploited by hackers?) MS really puts more and more advetising - too much advertising I have often seen as the last action of getting customers - when there is no more innovation and other reasons why people should buy the product. I am pretty sure, there will be a momentum of change in the masses even without much publicity. In fact, if many people would - in a gold rush - switch to Linux or Ubuntu in particular, I am pretty sure I would be affected negatively at least in update download rates, so basically I wouldn't see an advantage for me having the others going Linux. However: We need more Linux and Ubuntu users just for the sake of getting the appropriate respect by the software and hardware vendors. Currently far too many vendors do not consider users that are not using Windows (even Mac is still widely ignored). > Fourthly: Stability. Ubuntu definatly needs a netbook version again, as > Ubuntu runs horribly on intel atom processors and lags like hell (I > tried running Ubuntu on a 1.6Ghz dual-core intel atom that had 1gb of > ram). However smaller distros like lubuntu seem to work well. > Also, something as stupid as nautilus crashing when idle needs to be fixed. I have several Ubuntu desktops, laptops and a netbook running where I have regular access too and it is a while ago when I had those annoying nautilus crashes the last time. This bug here is expired - but anyway, I don't experience it any more: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/404351 And don't remember where I faced this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/905686 But although does not seem to be fixed yet, I don't experience it any more. But don't know which bug you mean... Generally spoken, I find it a nice presentation of Mark at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DcpWHJDLsqTU and I find that Ubuntu does innovate, however at 1:00 he cites several reviews and I must say: At the beginning of 12.04 I had a lot of issues and only since manually updating to 3.5-Kernel I got my 12.04 stable. So from my experience 10.04 was a lot more stable than 12.04 (without the manual hacking)! Best regards, Martin Wildam. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 11:16:48 -0000 Message-Id: <1359199008.79045.YahooMailNeo@web28903.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) I don't have any of those problems.=C2=A0=20 Perhaps you need to check that you have an official Cd or downloaded from the official website and then md5sum or Sha check the Cd or Usb that you use to install Ubuntu.=C2=A0 1.=C2=A0 Overclocking and underclocking.=C2=A0 Doesn't this need to be done= from inside the bios or by physical changes to the hardware?=C2=A0 I've not heard of anyone being able to do this from inside any OS.=C2=A0 I agree it would = be good if Ubuntu could lead the way on this.=C2=A0 2.=C2=A0 If my internet connection drops out i just get a discrete notification and the icon on the top taskbar changes to show i have no network connection.=C2=A0 None of that grabs focus and i can keep typing without interference.=C2=A0 With crash reports i get a pop-up dialogue just once and have to cancel or allow it (ie it grabs focus).=C2=A0 Either way it doesn't appear a 2nd time.=C2=A0 The only place i've seen the type of behaviour that MDV described was in Windows, never in any Gnu&Linux.=C2=A0 3.=C2=A0 Advertising would be great.=C2=A0 Public perception of OpenSource = vs MS is generally exactly the opposite of reality.=C2=A0 A good example is that greater numbers of desktop users would NOT increase security problems.=C2=A0 Currently malware and remote attackers focus on desktop machines despite that only affecting 1 person at a time and thus being an extremely inefficient method of attacking people.=C2=A0 Attacking a server would affect far more people.=C2=A0 A single server going down could affect hundreds or thousand of people rather than just 1.=C2=A0 The reason we don't see more servers getting attacked and taken down could have something to do with the fact that almost no serious servers run Windows.=C2=A0 Servers almost entirely run unix-based platforms such as Bsd or Gnu&Linux.=C2=A0 4.=C2=A0 Dunno.=C2=A0 I've not tried running Ubuntu on Atoms.=C2=A0 However= , on extremely low spec machines i have found Ubuntu 12.04 (using Unity) runs a LOT better than 8.04 or 10.04 (using Gnome).=C2=A0 10.04 was fine but 12.= 04 is better.=C2=A0 Few to no crashes and no problems.=C2=A0 Windows on the s= ame machine constantly runs into problems.=C2=A0 I've not had nautilus crash when idle even when i have many tabs open and some of those looking at local folders and others at networked file- shares.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Summary So, it sounds to me like MDV either has a corrupted version of Ubuntu or is= getting the errors on Windows and somehow think they are on Ubuntu.=C2=A0 = I would recommend buying some official Ubuntu Cds from the Canonical store = and also try re-downloading Ubuntu from the official website.=C2=A0 It woul= d be nice to nkow where he/she got the version of Ubuntu from so that we co= uld try to stop corrupted versions from being distributed.=C2=A0=20 Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 11:25:33 -0000 Message-Id: <1359199533.17004.YahooMailNeo@web28901.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) Wow!!=C2=A0 Some good links there from other people!=C2=A0=20 There was 1 release that had a lot of problems with "segmentation fault"s.= =C2=A0 That got fixed and doesn't seem to have reappeared in any of the sub= sequent releases in the last few years.=C2=A0=20 Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Achilles12 (cvg1-cool-man) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 11:29:37 -0000 Message-Id: <1999854400-1359199778-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-329264637-@b27.c6.bise7.blackberry> Tom,=20 I agree with you. I also have the same response as yours to those problems.= =20 Sent on my BlackBerry=C2=AE from Vodafone -----Original Message----- From: Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> Sender: bounces@canonical.com Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 11:16:48=20 To: Reply-To: Bug 1 <1@bugs.launchpad.net> Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share Hi :) I don't have any of those problems.=C2=A0=20 Perhaps you need to check that you have an official Cd or downloaded from the official website and then md5sum or Sha check the Cd or Usb that you use to install Ubuntu. 1.=C2=A0 Overclocking and underclocking.=C2=A0 Doesn't this need to be done= from inside the bios or by physical changes to the hardware?=C2=A0 I've not heard of anyone being able to do this from inside any OS.=C2=A0 I agree it would = be good if Ubuntu could lead the way on this. 2.=C2=A0 If my internet connection drops out i just get a discrete notification and the icon on the top taskbar changes to show i have no network connection.=C2=A0 None of that grabs focus and i can keep typing without interference.=C2=A0 With crash reports i get a pop-up dialogue just once and have to cancel or allow it (ie it grabs focus).=C2=A0 Either way it doesn't appear a 2nd time.=C2=A0 The only place i've seen the type of behaviour that MDV described was in Windows, never in any Gnu&Linux. 3.=C2=A0 Advertising would be great.=C2=A0 Public perception of OpenSource = vs MS is generally exactly the opposite of reality. A good example is that greater numbers of desktop users would NOT increase security problems.=C2=A0 Currently malware and remote attackers focus on desktop machines despite that only affecting 1 person at a time and thus being an extremely inefficient method of attacking people. Attacking a server would affect far more people.=C2=A0 A single server going down could affect hundreds or thousand of people rather than just 1. The reason we don't see more servers getting attacked and taken down could have something to do with the fact that almost no serious servers run Windows.=C2=A0 Servers almost entirely run unix-based platforms such as Bsd or Gnu&Linux. 4.=C2=A0 Dunno.=C2=A0 I've not tried running Ubuntu on Atoms.=C2=A0 However= , on extremely low spec machines i have found Ubuntu 12.04 (using Unity) runs a LOT better than 8.04 or 10.04 (using Gnome).=C2=A0 10.04 was fine but 12.= 04 is better.=C2=A0 Few to no crashes and no problems.=C2=A0 Windows on the s= ame machine constantly runs into problems. I've not had nautilus crash when idle even when i have many tabs open and some of those looking at local folders and others at networked file- shares. Summary So, it sounds to me like MDV either has a corrupted version of Ubuntu or is= getting the errors on Windows and somehow think they are on Ubuntu.=C2=A0 = I would recommend buying some official Ubuntu Cds from the Canonical store = and also try re-downloading Ubuntu from the official website.=C2=A0 It woul= d be nice to nkow where he/she got the version of Ubuntu from so that we co= uld try to stop corrupted versions from being distributed.=C2=A0=20 Regards from Tom :) --=20 You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug report. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 Title: Microsoft has a majority market share Status in Club Distro: Confirmed Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: New Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: Invalid Status in dylan.NET: Invalid Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid Status in LibreOffice: In Progress Status in The Linux Kernel: New Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: In Progress Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress Status in Tabuntu: Invalid Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid Status in Tv-Player: Invalid Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: In Progress Status in Ubuntu: In Progress Status in Arch Linux: Confirmed Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed Status in openSUSE: In Progress Status in Tilix Linux: New Bug description: Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to all." "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software gives= everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with whoever th= ey like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the spectrum it enab= les the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective experience and ex= pertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the other, we are able= to give access to essential software for those who couldn=E2=80=99t otherw= ise afford it =E2=80=93 an advantage that=E2=80=99s keenly felt by individu= als and organisations all over the world." =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0* http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubunt= u/our-philosophy Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and concentrates control over the technology which powers our society into the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic practices. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. Steps to repeat: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A01. Visit a local PC store. =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A02. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprieta= ry software. What happens: Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre- installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operating system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be proprietary. What should happen: A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0* http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0* http://www.debian.org/social_contract#gui= delines =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0* http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 11:45:06 -0000 Message-Id: On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 12:16 PM, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Perhaps you need to check that you have an official Cd or downloaded > from the official website and then md5sum or Sha check the Cd or Usb > that you use to install Ubuntu. I only use images from the official download page and while I installed my main 12.04 laptop (that I use for my work) from the original 12.04 image now I only have the 12.04.1 image left, so I cannot re-check the image as I don't have it any more. And apart from that - I am usually not alone with my problems - e.g. some of the kernel problems I had, I reported them directly to the kernel folks and got confirmed. What is far more probably the case: I have a lot of stuff installed (no games, no Wine but VMware, Virtualbox, Citrix, several VPN clients I need to access customers, 2 different versions of TeamViewer, etc etc). My experience with others where I install and support Ubuntu is that especially for distribution upgrades they tend to fail as soon as you do a little non-standard stuff (add some repositories for particular needs and the like). > 1. Overclocking and underclocking. Doesn't this need to be done from > inside the bios or by physical changes to the hardware? I've not heard > of anyone being able to do this from inside any OS. I agree it would be > good if Ubuntu could lead the way on this. My netbook offers switching from the panel - with the tool I mentioned above. Maybe it's just a fake - I never digged into it. ;-) > 2. If my internet connection drops out i just get a discrete > notification and the icon on the top taskbar changes to show i have no > network connection. None of that grabs focus and i can keep typing > without interference. Yes, you are right, when internet connection just drops that e.g. DNS down or so. But if the WLAN-Router is rebooted then you get those password dialogs. > A good example is that greater numbers of desktop users would NOT > increase security problems. Currently malware and remote attackers > focus on desktop machines despite that only affecting 1 person at a time > and thus being an extremely inefficient method of attacking people. But the attacks mostly done "automatically" from infected servers. Indeed two days ago at a family member I have seen a virus setting DNS servers to a server at Google - so you can be sure that there are even servers at Google that are hijacked! Also have seen even online-banking servers being hijacked and distributing viruses over the browser. Servers do get infected! And yes, even those that are running Linux! I have seen hijacked Linux-servers. However in those cases they always got into the system through PHP issues. Best regard, Martin --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 13:51:00 -0000 Message-Id: <1359208260.81348.YahooMailNeo@web28902.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :)=C2=A0 Martin, i wasn't referring to you having bad Cd images, i was referring to the person that seems to have had multiple problems that the rest of us hasn't (or only had in certain unusual cases when doing something quite peculiar).=C2=A0 I am curious about setting up a login to a Ctirx server btw.=C2=A0 Could yo= u give links or contact me off-list? TomDavies04@Yahoo.Co.Uk I wasn't aware of the options to over&under clock systems from inside OSes.=C2=A0 I've only ever done that sort of thing inside the bios and by carefully selecting appropriate hardware (well, i have a colleague who sorts my hardware tbh).=C2=A0 Also i've played around with quite a few fair= ly low-spec machines but not actual netbooks.=C2=A0 With regards to supporting other people i tend to find that it really doesn= 't matter which OS they are given or how much help and advice they are give= n they somehow always manage to stuff up whichever system they are given.= =C2=A0 Of course some few exceptions.=C2=A0 Typically i find the easiest on= es to recover from and solve are Ubuntu or other OpenSource systems.=C2=A0 = The most intractable ones tend to be Windows systems that have become infec= ted or where the user themselves has managed to actively destroy things.=C2= =A0=20 Wrt the banking sector's idea of security i have to say that banks seem to = have the number 1 most appalling security.=C2=A0 They have insisted on me i= nstalling ActiveX and Java in order to use their systems despite many high = profile cases of malware and remote attackers using those to compromise sys= tems.=C2=A0 It seems they want me to installing unsafe systems in order to = be able to blame me when things go wrong.=C2=A0 If they used the same type = of security advice for their physical assets then they would regularly be g= etting robbed by kids with water-pistols or old men with a bottle-in-a-bag.= =C2=A0 It honestly would not surprise me to learn they were using Windows 1= 998 server (home), unpatched, and with passwords such as "password" Wrt the virus resetting DNS to Google servers that somehow seems a bit tooo= o obvious.=C2=A0 The fact that there was a problem was found fairly easily.= =C2=A0 Presumably even the weeu (wide eyed end user) noticed their machine = was having a problem.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Also a LOT of times i find that people claim to have become infected by some sort of virus as a way out of admitting they might have done something themselves to create the problem.=C2=A0 It's better than them admitting to having gone to a reported attack site, downloaded something, chosen to run it and ok'd the computer's grumble!=C2=A0 Ok, so i've not found people doing that but they do somehow install all sorts of strange crap and then blame anyone but themselves for having tons of toolbars in their web-browser.=C2=A0 The only time i have heard of Gnu&Linux servers getting compromised was=20 1.=C2=A0 Under coordinated attacks from thousands or millions of machines a= ll at the same time 2.=C2=A0 One network of servers that was left unpatched for 6 years and did= n't even have a maintenance chap sweeping away cobwebs between machines!=C2= =A0 Not even so much as a reboot or even a glance through their logs.=C2=A0= =C2=A0 On the other hand i have seen people having to reboot Windows servers every few days and keep patched wekly and put a lot of time into dealing with all sorts of petty issues even for a simple internet-gateway, little more than a router really.=C2=A0 As for Gnu&Linux getting infected it's a relative term.=C2=A0 People i have= had to trust have given me infected files which my system remained immune = to and oblivious of and then i have passed the file on to other people.=C2= =A0 Nowadays i tend to run an antivirus program purely to stop myself accid= entally passing on such infected files from other people.=C2=A0=C2=A0 People such as Google are known to respond quickly if/when problems arise.=C2=A0 They don't spend the best part of 3 years adamantly insisting there is no problem and that you should buy certain stuff to fix it and then finally admit that there was a problem all that time but buying their newer release fixes all that.=C2=A0 Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 13:57:04 -0000 Message-Id: <1359208624.50334.YahooMailNeo@web28901.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) +1 I think MDV somehow got a corrupted Cd or else was using Windows and didn't= notice.=C2=A0 I've done it myself sometimes at work.=C2=A0 Xp and Ubuntu f= eel so comfortable, even the 12.04.=C2=A0=20 Win7 is not to bad either although it's a bit weird to get a pop-up box dem= anding to know if you want to do what you just asked it to do.=C2=A0 At lea= st with Win7 it gives a clue about what it's talking about so you are not j= ust ok'ing things randomly (i'm sooo glad to have leap-frogged past Vista!) Regards from Tom :)=C2=A0=C2=A0 >________________________________ > From: Achilles12=20 >=20 >Tom,=20 >I agree with you. I also have the same response as yours to those problems= .=20 >Sent on my BlackBerry=C2=AE from Vodafone > > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 14:27:53 -0000 Message-Id: On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > I am curious about setting up a login to a Ctirx server btw. Could you g= ive links or contact me off-list? I have sent you information. > Also a LOT of times i find that people claim to have become infected by > some sort of virus as a way out of admitting they might have done > something themselves to create the problem. [...] Ok, so > i've not found people doing that but they do somehow install all sorts > of strange crap and then blame anyone but themselves for having tons of > toolbars in their web-browser. In the case I mentioned there were viruses - definitely. And with IE (needed for work by this person) without any adblocker etc whereever you go you see at least 5 download buttons - even if you don't want to - it is easy to accidently download wrong things. Horror! > 1. Under coordinated attacks from thousands or millions of machines all = at the same time > 2. One network of servers that was left unpatched for 6 years and didn't= even have a maintenance chap sweeping away > cobwebs between machines! Not even so much as a reboot or even a glance = through their logs. I worked at a company where security issues of several web apps (written in PHP) were used to drop other PHP web apps and so they got an MP3 and video host (of course just for a while until the admin noticed it). > On the other hand i have seen people having to reboot Windows servers > every few days and keep patched wekly and put a lot of time into dealing > with all sorts of petty issues even for a simple internet-gateway, > little more than a router really. Yup, I know. Of course, windows usually needs more attention. However, in such things I don't want to compare a pitty situation (Linux) with a total desaster (Windows). I want to have problems solved instead of being happy, that I am not worse. ;-) > As for Gnu&Linux getting infected it's a relative term. People i have ha= d to trust have given me infected files which my > system remained immune to and oblivious of and then i have passed the fil= e on to other people. > Nowadays i tend to run an antivirus program purely to stop myself acciden= tally passing on such infected files from other > people. Some people say that if Linux would be more widely used there would be more virus for it. I am not sure - I think there are some differences in the system (e.g. the executable flag) that make life harder for a Virus. Other things, like not working with full admin permissions is something that in the meantime even Windows users do in many cases and something like sudo (confirm administrative tasks) also exists on Windows in the meantime. > People such as Google are known to respond quickly if/when problems > arise. They don't spend the best part of 3 years adamantly insisting > there is no problem Don't know - I have written them of the probably hijacked server, but no response since then. Greetings, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 15:04:28 -0000 Message-Id: <1359212668.6665.YahooMailNeo@web28904.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) Thanks for the off-list help there Marin :)=C2=A0 Should help improve my re= lationship with my boss :) All Windows 'security' seems to be just a layer added on top of a fundamentally insecure system.=C2=A0 Where Win7 appears to have something similar to sudo or gksu that really feels like something that is just on the surface.=C2=A0 Programs need to operate without constantly asking the users permissions but have they all really been totally re-written so that they never need SuperUser permissions?=C2=A0 Have you tried surfing with cookies being totally blocked?=C2=A0 Even micro= soft.com gives a dozen pop-up asking you to accept this or that cookie with= no real detail about the individual cookies.=C2=A0 You just have to either 1.=C2=A0 accept pretty much all unknown cookies or=20 2.=C2=A0 forget even legitimate and 'safe' websurfing (ie NO 3rd party site= s, only ones condoned by MS and security advisers)=C2=A0 I know what you mean about not wanting to be just better and safer but real= ly being safe.=C2=A0 The way i think of it is that with Gnu&Linux i feel ab= out 90% safe, perhaps 99% safe.=C2=A0 With Windows i feel about 9% safe.=C2= =A0 Almost all the time i take actions to stay safe in Gnu&Linux it feels l= ike it's just me being pedantic and unnecessary.=C2=A0 In Windows it seems = the slightest thing can cause problems.=C2=A0=20 Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 00:37:10 -0000 Message-Id: On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Thanks for the off-list help there Marin :) Should help improve my relat= ionship with my boss :) Sounds familiar to me... ;-) > Programs need to operate without constantly asking the > users permissions but have they all really been totally re-written so > that they never need SuperUser permissions? I don't think so - with Windows 7 (or XP service pack something don't know exactly), Windows even learned the symlink thing which can help here (however most windows folks still don't know that they can do this now using mklink... ;-) ). > Have you tried surfing with cookies being totally blocked? Even microsof= t.com gives a dozen pop-up asking > you to accept this or that cookie with no real detail about the individua= l cookies. It's not only the cookies - on several sites you already have to allow some included third-party web-site-java-scripting (either referencing to other websites) to allow display of advertising until they show you the real site content. So they urge you to view the advertising also - otherwise nothing. But this affects every OS putting them on a higher risk. > I know what you mean about not wanting to be just better and safer but re= ally being safe. > [...] > In Windows it seems the slightest thing can cause problems. I was also able to keep my Windows clean of Viruses - until 2009 where I fully switched - because I had my ad- and script-blockers and I know where to pay attention and what not to do. But there are plenty of people, even working in IT, who get viruses because they forget to be careful. I would be really interestet in hearing the opinion of an expert if Linux is really safer than Windows or only the fact that >90% of users running Windows make that OS the most attacked ones at client side. I am pretty sure that at server-side there is full attention of hackers is on Linux-machines but I don't know anything about statistics how many Linux servers get hijacked to end up in a bot-net. Best regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: nameremoved (errorwhywhywhy-deactivatedaccount) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:29:42 -0000 Message-Id: <20130128232942.26764.35332.malone@gac.canonical.com> To all those who are asking: Firstly: I initially installed ubuntu 12.10 beta on the computer I am using now, I downloaded it from the offical daily builds. After that I directly upgraded to 13.04. Secondly: I do have the apport package, It will only start spamming about program crashes after apport is installed. Thirdly: The computer I am using origionally did have windows Vista on it. (It was very, very slow and it had a virus of some sort), but now it has only Ubuntu 13.04 on it. Fouthly: I have the Wine emulator. Fithly: I have other computers with ubuntu on them, same problem under the same conditions. Sixthly: The whole reason I swithched to Ubuntu was because of those damn viruses. (The origional computer I used ran XP, and got a 'super' virus that stopped me using ever way I knew to distroy it.) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 01:58:33 -0000 Message-Id: <1359424713.93831.YahooMailNeo@web28906.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) The best place to get normal Ubuntu from is http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop and avoid installing apport.=C2=A0=C2=A0 It sounds like you are looking for trouble by trying to use unstable alpha-test versions that would only normally be used by certain devs working on fairly specific projects.=C2=A0 Most of us never use any of that= .=C2=A0 We tend to stick with stable versions and in most cases the more stable the better.=C2=A0 Almost all 'my' machines only have 12.04 LTS.=C2=A0 It's easier to maintain= .=C2=A0 A couple still have 10.04 LTS (again because it's easy to look afte= r) but they almost never get used.=C2=A0 It's only my own home machine and = the one i actually use almost all the time at work that multi-boot into oth= er systems.=C2=A0 Errr, they all have Windows as a dual-boot.=C2=A0 None ha= ve apport and i have never used it.=C2=A0=20 I get the feeling that you either are a dev or that devs have somehow convinced you that unstable experimental versions are 'better'.=C2=A0 When i first tried moving from Windows i was looking for the "best" of the bewildering amount of choices and somehow settled on the server edition.=C2=A0 It took me a while to figure out that what i really needed w= as a normal, reliable desktop.=C2=A0 Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: nameremoved (errorwhywhywhy-deactivatedaccount) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 02:52:20 -0000 Message-Id: <20130129025220.4264.75226.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Firstly I report bugs that I find if I am on the internet when they occur. Secondly I am sorry if I come across as looking for trouble, but what I say is what I think could help combat this bug. Thirdly, when I was asking about overclocking I meant that there was no 'Custom Setting' sort of overclocking feature that allows the user to push the clock speed past the design speed of the cpu. (Ie. Pushing a cpu designed at 1.215Ghz to 2.1Ghz) The other thing is that a lot of computers don't have the overclocking feature in their bios. I do know however that Windoze has programs that do the overclocking on computers that don't have the feature. (I only have 2 computers that can be overclocked out of a dozen, one is a pentium 2 and the other is an AMD Athlon XP) Something I forgot to add in my last post is that when I first used ubuntu I actually bought the CD's from canocal, to be accurate is was that pack that came with Ubuntu 11.10, Kubuntu 11.10 and Ubuntu server 11.10. The first computer I installed it on was my Toshiba satellite L30. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 03:31:31 -0000 Message-Id: <1359430291.46494.YahooMailNeo@web28901.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) Sorry, i didn't mean you were deliberately seeking out trouble.=C2=A0 Just = that it seems you have done what most of us did in our early days too.=C2= =A0 There is a LOT of advice out there and not all of it is good for all oc= casions.=C2=A0=20 Often people claim that the only legitimate way of doing anything is to do = it exactly the way they do it.=C2=A0 They imply that any variation on what = they do is foolish =3D you have to get it exactly 'right' (according to the= m).=C2=A0 However they seldom tell us why their way is 'better' and when th= ey do it turns out that while their way might be best for them it's actuall= y completely the opposite of what would be right for you.=C2=A0=20 The 11.10 was a bit of a nightmare for a lot of us and the 11.04=C2=A0 (6mo= nths earlier) was even worse.=C2=A0 Generally i find the 6monthly releases = are Ok but the LTSes are much better (for me) because i find them much more= stable.=C2=A0 It does mean i don't always get the cutting edge versions of= things but to me that just means i bleed less.=C2=A0=20 Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 12:24:47 -0000 Message-Id: <1359462287.76507.YahooMailNeo@web28903.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) Sorry about my last post!! I found this article very interesting and it put across the key ideas much = better than i could.=C2=A0 It's a bit old but it's well worth reading http://librenix.com/?inode=3D21 Regards from Tom :)=C2=A0=20 >________________________________ > From: Martin Wildam <1@bugs.launchpad.net> >To: TomDavies04@Yahoo.Co.Uk=20 >Sent: Sunday, 27 January 2013, 0:37 >Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 >On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: >> Thanks for the off-list help there Marin :)=C2=A0 Should help improve my= relationship with my boss :) > >Sounds familiar to me... ;-) > > >> Programs need to operate without constantly asking the >> users permissions but have they all really been totally re-written so >> that they never need SuperUser permissions? > >I don't think so - with Windows 7 (or XP service pack something don't >know exactly), Windows even learned the symlink thing which can help >here (however most windows folks still don't know that they can do >this now using mklink... ;-) ). > > >> Have you tried surfing with cookies being totally blocked?=C2=A0 Even mi= crosoft.com gives a dozen pop-up asking >> you to accept this or that cookie with no real detail about the individu= al cookies. > >It's not only the cookies - on several sites you already have to allow >some included third-party web-site-java-scripting (either referencing >to other websites) to allow display of advertising until they show you >the real site content. So they urge you to view the advertising also - >otherwise nothing. But this affects every OS putting them on a higher >risk. > > >> I know what you mean about not wanting to be just better and safer but r= eally being safe. >> [...] >> In Windows it seems the slightest thing can cause problems. > >I was also able to keep my Windows clean of Viruses - until 2009 where >I fully switched - because I had my ad- and script-blockers and I know >where to pay attention and what not to do. But there are plenty of >people, even working in IT, who get viruses because they forget to be >careful. > >I would be really interestet in hearing the opinion of an expert if >Linux is really safer than Windows or only the fact that >90% of users >running Windows make that OS the most attacked ones at client side. I >am pretty sure that at server-side there is full attention of hackers >is on Linux-machines but I don't know anything about statistics how >many Linux servers get hijacked to end up in a bot-net. > >Best regards, Martin. > >--=20 >You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug >report. >https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > >Title: >=C2=A0 Microsoft has a majority market share > >Status in Club Distro: >=C2=A0 Confirmed >Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: >=C2=A0 Confirmed >Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: >=C2=A0 New >Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: >=C2=A0 Invalid >Status in dylan.NET: >=C2=A0 Invalid >Status in EasyPeasy Overview: >=C2=A0 Invalid >Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: >=C2=A0 Invalid >Status in JAK LINUX: >=C2=A0 Invalid >Status in LibreOffice: >=C2=A0 In Progress >Status in The Linux Kernel: >=C2=A0 New >Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: >=C2=A0 In Progress >Status in The Linux OS Project: >=C2=A0 In Progress >Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: >=C2=A0 In Progress >Status in Tabuntu: >=C2=A0 Invalid >Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: >=C2=A0 Invalid >Status in Tv-Player: >=C2=A0 Invalid >Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: >=C2=A0 In Progress >Status in Ubuntu: >=C2=A0 In Progress >Status in Arch Linux: >=C2=A0 Confirmed >Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: >=C2=A0 Invalid >Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: >=C2=A0 In Progress >Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: >=C2=A0 Confirmed >Status in openSUSE: >=C2=A0 In Progress >Status in Tilix Linux: >=C2=A0 New > >Bug description: >=C2=A0 Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC >=C2=A0 marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant >=C2=A0 to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is >=C2=A0 driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to >=C2=A0 all." > >=C2=A0 "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software= gives everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with whoe= ver they like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the spectrum i= t enables the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective experience = and expertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the other, we ar= e able to give access to essential software for those who couldn=E2=80=99t = otherwise afford it =E2=80=93 an advantage that=E2=80=99s keenly felt by in= dividuals and organisations all over the world." >=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0* http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about= -ubuntu/our-philosophy > >=C2=A0 Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner a= nd >=C2=A0 concentrates control over the technology which powers our society i= nto >=C2=A0 the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles >=C2=A0 innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious >=C2=A0 anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic >=C2=A0 practices. > >=C2=A0 This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > >=C2=A0 Steps to repeat: > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A01. Visit a local PC store. >=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A02. Attempt to buy a machine without any pro= prietary software. > >=C2=A0 What happens: > >=C2=A0 Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pr= e- >=C2=A0 installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operat= ing >=C2=A0 system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be >=C2=A0 proprietary. > >=C2=A0 What should happen: > >=C2=A0 A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0* http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-= sw.html >=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0* http://www.debian.org/social_contra= ct#guidelines >=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0* http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd > >To manage notifications about this bug go to: >https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions > > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: nameremoved (errorwhywhywhy-deactivatedaccount) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 05:19:52 -0000 Message-Id: <20130131051952.24745.31922.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> "The 11.10 was a bit of a nightmare for a lot of us and the 11.04 (6months earlier) was even worse." The thing I always remembered about 11.10 was that I would get some stupid error message stating that it couldn't update after a week or two of installing, another time I used ubuntu 10.04 on a laptop with a celeron CPU (1.6GHz) and it was soo slow, then I updated the kernel to 3.5.4, it was fast but there was a wireless bug that caused the wireless to drop out. (I was mainly doing experements on it, so I didn't really need the Internet, but I did need it inititally though) "I found this article very interesting and it put across the key ideas much= better than i could. It's a bit old but it's well worth reading http://librenix.com/?inode=3D21" =20 I remember reading a similar article about Linux and viruses right before I= started using Linux. After I tried ubuntu on the netbook, I ended up doing a fork from lubuntu (= as lubuntu ran nicely on it). And there is Zero viruses on all of the distr= os. That is why I love open source! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: nameremoved (errorwhywhywhy-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2013 05:52:22 -0000 Message-Id: <20130309055222.1558.29412.malone@soybean.canonical.com> Another problem that should be fixed in ubuntu is the data leaks caused by = the spyware of the webapps.=20 On one particular occasion I experienced a MASSIVE data leak beaming to an = IP address owned by canonical. The lag caused by this actually quite litera= lly grinded my web surfing to a halt. I even I had the spyware turned off, = and I wasn't updating either, It took me a whole hour to plug it. (It beaco= ned as soon as the internet was connected) Richard Stallman Dislikes Ubuntu, because of the Spyware. (He even goes as = far as saying its as bad as Windoze.) The link to what he says: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DDXnfa0H30L4 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2013 08:18:42 -0000 Message-Id: > Another problem that should be fixed in ubuntu is the data leaks caused by the spyware of the webapps. Not again! Yes, it was not really ok to add the amazon and online search. I think, even Canonical knows in the meantime that everybody else in the community dislikes that. But please, there is the switch to turn it off even in the GUI of the privacy settings, so this is not really a problem! On the other hand, the rookie computer user mostly cannot even distinguish between the url location field and the google search in the browser (that's why browsers and google managed both to implement both functions). So I do see a logic in the idea of Canonical to incorporate everything into the dash because the rookie user will expect to find everything from there. > On one particular occasion I experienced a MASSIVE data leak beaming to an IP address owned by canonical. Otherwise it would be Google or Microsoft collecting your data - or - mostly ignored: Your internet provider. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: nameremoved (errorwhywhywhy-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 07:40:37 -0000 Message-Id: <20130310074037.14090.75434.malone@wampee.canonical.com> >Yes, it was not really ok to add the amazon and online search. I think, even Canonical knows in the meantime that everybody else in the community dislikes that. Agreed. > But please, there is the switch to turn it off even in the GUI of the privacy settings, so this is not really a problem! I had already turned it off, and then it decided to leak the data. I am also curious what the 'Data' that it was sending was. > Otherwise it would be Google or Microsoft collecting your data - or - mostly ignored: Your internet provider. I did a reverse IP adress lookup, and the IP adress is owned by canonical. And I deny ALL cookies. And Micro$haft can go die in a hole before I hand over my data. > So I do see a logic in the idea of Canonical to incorporate everything into the dash because the rookie user will expect to find everything from there. I personally believe that if this 'feature' must be incorparated, it should at least ask the user if they want it installed during an update/ fresh install. Or at least have it turned off by default. (Although my preference is for it to NOT be installed) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 08:35:50 -0000 Message-Id: <513C45E6.4030703@hal-pc.org> > I had already turned it off, and then it decided to leak the data. I am > also curious what the 'Data' that it was sending was. There are three things off the top of my head that could be=20 communicating back... The Amazon silliness, Landscape and Popularity=20 Contest (popcon) assuming, of course, that the system updates are not=20 what you are seeing. If you could narrow this down for us, it would help. Lee --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 08:46:14 -0000 Message-Id: On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Martyn Vallett <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrot= e: > I had already turned it off, and then it decided to leak the data. I am > also curious what the 'Data' that it was sending was. Do you have more details on the data or how you discovered the leak? For example the update manager is of course checking for updates from time to time (not only at reboot) so what you noticed could also be this. Similar if you are using Ubuntu one - then of course there is data transfer from and to Canonical which would be no wonder. > I personally believe that if this 'feature' must be incorparated, it > should at least ask the user if they want it installed during an update/ > fresh install. Or at least have it turned off by default. (Although my > preference is for it to NOT be installed) I agree with you: The user should be asked at first logon if he/she wants to enable online searches and the like in the dash. Regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: nameremoved (errorwhywhywhy-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 22:17:59 -0000 Message-Id: <20130310221759.29342.32028.malone@gac.canonical.com> > Do you have more details on the data or how you discovered the leak? I was causually surfing the web and I noticed it was overly laggy, so I went into the system monitor and noticed that my system was uploading at it's maxiumum rate. (Which in my case is about 30kb/s) This was leaving barely anything for surfing the web. Becuase the upload was so desprate to send itself I could only achive a download rate of 20-30kb/s (When it's normally 160-170Kb/s) >For example the update manager is of course checking for updates from time to time (not only at reboot) so what you noticed could also be this. The conditions seem suspicous, it only had the intention of only uploading. >If you could narrow this down for us, it would help. I will probably open a bug report with the details if I encounter it again, as I did a fresh re-install about an hour ago. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 23:04:34 -0000 Message-Id: On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 11:17 PM, Martyn Vallett <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wro= te: >> Do you have more details on the data or how you discovered the leak? > > I was causually surfing the web and I noticed it was overly laggy, so I > went into the system monitor and noticed that my system was uploading at > it's maxiumum rate. (Which in my case is about 30kb/s) This was leaving > barely anything for surfing the web. Becuase the upload was so desprate > to send itself I could only achive a download rate of 20-30kb/s (When > it's normally 160-170Kb/s) What? You didn't grab a real data-stream and investigated the content? regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: nameremoved (errorwhywhywhy-deactivatedaccount) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 02:36:48 -0000 Message-Id: <20130311023648.29223.81464.malone@gac.canonical.com> > What? You didn't grab a real data-stream and investigate the content? How do I do that? (I didn't even know that was possible...) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 13:00:18 -0000 Message-Id: <1363006818.49335.YahooMailNeo@web28902.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) Are you sure you are not Torrenting something? =C2=A0I usually deliberately= leave my torrenting-client on for a while after i download something with = the aim of uploading it 2 or 3 times before switching it off. =C2=A0The def= aults are to upload as much as possible but i usually throttle that down us= ing the torrenting-clients settings menu. =C2=A0 Have you donwloaded something recently that downloaded quite quickly? =C2= =A0If so that was probably a torrented file and you are still letting it ge= t uploaded from your machine. =C2=A0=C2=A0 Regards from Tom :) =C2=A0 >________________________________ > From: Martyn Vallett=C2=A0 > > > > >=C2=A0noticed that my system was uploading at >it's maxiumum rate. (Which in my case is about 30kb/s) This was leaving >barely anything for surfing the web.=C2=A0 > > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 13:49:27 -0000 Message-Id: "Martyn Vallett" <1@bugs.launchpad.net>: > How do I do that? (I didn't even know that was possible...) It looks like you are pretty fast in making conclusions without enough proove. You could use tcpdump or wireshark to investigate traffic - as maybe it's just ubuntuone. Use the inotify tools (just google for it) to check what local files are accessed. But first of all: This is not a topic for bug one - please file a new bug using ubuntu-bug on the commandline. Regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Luis Alvarado (luisalvarado) Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 17:34:06 -0000 Message-Id: <20130405173407.9655.67742.malone@wampee.canonical.com> There is work in progress to solve this bug. You can find some of the progress here: http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/2408515 and http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/04/microsofts-market-dominance-is- coming-to-an-end-say-leading-analysts The fix will arrive "soon" on Ubuntu --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mind Booster Noori (marado-isp) Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 14:09:18 -0000 Message-Id: <20130409140918.10507.32839.malone@gac.canonical.com> Luis Alvarado (luisalvarado) wrote on 2013-04-05:=09 > There is work in progress to solve this bug. You can find some of the pro= gress here:=20 > http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/2408515 and=20 > http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/04/microsofts-market-dominance-is-coming-= to-an-end-say-leading-analysts >=20 > The fix will arrive "soon" on Ubuntu Microsoft's market share is still at 78%[1]. This is, however, a measure of "what's running", and if we consider the word "marketplace" and the reproduction steps in the bug report, then maybe the bug report is about "what's available to purchase", instead, and your links are more relevant. But in the same vein, the majority of the market share isn't from Microsoft anymore according to the same link, Android having the biggest slice of the pie, and, still, being only a 22% slice (2012 numbers). So, in one hand, the "Microsoft" part of the bug is solved, but on the other hand the report talks about devices without proprietary software, and I bet almost 100% percent of the Android devices out there for sale have include proprietary software. In summary, I think there is a flaw in this bug report: it isn't clear what's being considered a bug here. Maybe there are two bugs (Microsoft dominance, Proprietary software dominance), and, if that's the case, then this bug should probably split in two. [1] http://mindboosternoori.blogspot.pt/2010/09/evolution-of-operating- systems-usage.html --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 15:03:59 -0000 Message-Id: <1365519839.85186.YahooMailNeo@web28902.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) When this bug-report was first posted the IT world was a very different pla= ce.=C2=A0 I think it was even before netbooks!=C2=A0=20 There are a couple of ironies now 1.=C2=A0 The long awaited "Year of the Linux Desktop" is already happening = but we kinda missed it or don't notice it because it's not about desktops a= nymore.=C2=A0 It's about mobile devices such as hand-helds, tablets and the= rest.=C2=A0=20 2.=C2=A0 People happily use Android, Blackberries and others without even s= eeming to realise it's not MS.=C2=A0 Even while tapping away at their Andro= ids or Blackberry they state that they would never use Linux or that there = is no option other than Windows or they make other absurd statements.=20 3.=C2=A0 If Netbooks hadn't been around already and just newly arrived now = then Win8 wouldn't need to be touch-screen to run on them.=C2=A0 Which migh= t have saved MS a bit of a headache and allowed them to keep a more familia= r UI and compete favourably against tablets.=C2=A0 By killing off netbooks = they have ended up with a UI that is hated by WIndows fanboys (and girlies)= and forced into competing in an unfamiliar market that they've already los= t.=C2=A0 Dohh!!=C2=A0=20 The question is will we work together and ensure it stays the "Year of the = Linux Mobile Devices" or will Android, Blackberry and others fall to bitter= in-fighting leaving MS clear to waltz to the finish line?=C2=A0=20 Regards from=20 Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Leslie Zhai (xiangzhai83) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 07:28:48 -0000 Message-Id: <20130425072849.7336.21891.malone@gac.canonical.com> Ubuntu has a majority Chinese market share Ubuntu has a majority market share in the Chinese desktop PC marketplace.=20 This is a bug which Linux Deepin and other projects are meant to fix.=20 As the philosophy of the Linux Deepin Project states, "Our work is driven b= y a belief that software should not only be free and accessible to all, but= also be suitable to Chinese customers." Linux Deepin software is Chinese-suitable. Always was, always will be.=20 Chinese-suitable software is more than Online Music searcher, Lunar Calenda= r, nor Weather Widget; Linux Deepin 12.12 means more to Chinese customers, = for example: 1. new desktop environment, deepin-desktop-environment, is more beautif= ul than gnome shell or unity; 2. new software center, deepin-software-center, is much easier to insta= ll & update software; 3. new music player, deepin-music-player, is an awesome music player wi= th brilliant and tweakful UI; This bug is widely evident in Chinese PC industry. Steps to repeat: 1. Visit a local PC store. 2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software. What happens: Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows or Ubuntu pre-installed. What should happen: A majority of the PCs for sale should include not only free software but also Chinese-suitable. * https://github.com/xiangzhai/myblog/blob/master/Ubuntu_has_a_majorit= y_Chinese_market_share * http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html * http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines * http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Ubuntu Foundations Team Bug Bot (crichton) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 08:19:05 -0000 Message-Id: <20130425081905.7429.33013.malone@gac.canonical.com> The attachment "Ubuntu_has_a_majority_Chinese_market_share" seems to be a patch. If it isn't, please remove the "patch" flag from the attachment, remove the "patch" tag, and if you are a member of the ~ubuntu-reviewers, unsubscribe the team. [This is an automated message performed by a Launchpad user owned by ~brian-murray, for any issues please contact him.] --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Barry Drake (b-drake) Date: Sat, 04 May 2013 21:02:59 -0000 Message-Id: <20130504210259.25081.93361.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> I've been trying to find a workaround for this bug for about four years. My latest effort has not been directly to confront the bug, but to look at the effect it is having on peripherals. A recent complaint about support for printers from our local branch of PC World brought me the following when I complained to the CEO. "For the pre-loaded Linux operating system on the product, the manufacturers directly provide technical support. For PC peripherals such as printer there is an option for customer to download drivers for different operating system like Windows, Linux and MAC. We would recommend customer to check or ask the store whether these drivers are available from the manufacturer direct. Our store endeavour to provide any assistance of different versions of operating system, however, this cannot be guaranteed all the time. I have logged your complaint under reference CC2000722." The writer also promised to take this up with the manager of our local store. My first response before writing to the CEO was negative - to the effect that the company does not supply Linux operating systems, and therefore does not offer support training to staff. When I pointed out that the company sells a vast number of Linux compatible peripherals, they had to re-think the answer. I've shared this answer with the UK Ubuntu group, and with the Nottingham Linux User Group, who will no doubt pester the life out of more than one store manager! This is as it should be. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Barry Drake (b-drake) Date: Sun, 05 May 2013 18:55:59 -0000 Message-Id: <20130505185559.14508.60929.malone@gac.canonical.com> Thought I'd attach all the bug report responses from Dixons/PC-World group. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Barry Drake (b-drake) Date: Sun, 05 May 2013 18:57:42 -0000 Message-Id: <20130505185743.14535.47168.malone@gac.canonical.com> attachment 1 :currys_1.pdf --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Barry Drake (b-drake) Date: Sun, 05 May 2013 18:59:02 -0000 Message-Id: <20130505185903.14628.10442.malone@gac.canonical.com> attachment 2: currys_3.pdf --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Barry Drake (b-drake) Date: Sun, 05 May 2013 19:04:38 -0000 Message-Id: <20130505190438.17399.72825.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Also attached: currys_a.pdf, currys_ceo_1.pdf, currys_ceo_resp.pdf, currys_f.pdf, currys_reply_2.pdf, currys_resp_1.pdf, currys_resp_1.pdf, kodak_2.pdf Hope some of you can pester the folk concerned unti the bug-fix is released!!! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Barry Drake (b-drake) Date: Sun, 05 May 2013 19:13:33 -0000 Message-Id: <20130505191334.24616.18383.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Barry Drake (b-drake) Date: Sun, 05 May 2013 19:14:34 -0000 Message-Id: <20130505191434.14991.63489.malone@gac.canonical.com> --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Barry Drake (b-drake) Date: Sun, 05 May 2013 19:17:10 -0000 Message-Id: <20130505191710.14628.36765.malone@gac.canonical.com> --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Barry Drake (b-drake) Date: Sun, 05 May 2013 19:18:54 -0000 Message-Id: <20130505191854.24874.58733.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Barry Drake (b-drake) Date: Sun, 05 May 2013 19:20:05 -0000 Message-Id: <20130505192005.25039.9106.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Barry Drake (b-drake) Date: Sun, 05 May 2013 19:21:04 -0000 Message-Id: <20130505192104.24678.87481.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sun, 05 May 2013 19:24:30 -0000 Message-Id: <1367781870.21335.YahooMailNeo@web28904.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :)Lol, nice!=C2=A0 Errr, you realise this is an intenational online resource that may stand forever?=C2=A0 Also that this bug-repoort is usually used for general gripping or for occasionally shouts of triumph/joy.=C2=A0 It's not usually used as a marketing list for assessing specific strategies= or ideas.=C2=A0 There must be a marketing list or something that would rea= lly appreciate all this work a lot more and be able to use the intelligence= .=C2=A0 Now that it is up and avilable it might be easier for anyone in mar= keting to get hold of and use.=C2=A0 So, the effort is NOT wasted!=C2=A0 Fa= r from it, i have really enjoyed it.=C2=A0 I'm not on any of the marketing = lists and have been getting increasingly down-hearted about the scene in th= e UK so it's been a really positive boost to see someone really pushing and= getting good results here.=C2=A0 Timing could not have been better because= in local elections on Thursday we have just voted in an increasingly right= -wing, almost fascist, government that is increasingly dedicated to increas= ing the wealth of the rich and the poverty of the poor.=C2=A0 UKIP got 15%-= 25% of the vote!! :(=C2=A0=C2=A0 So, it's good to see an international open= movement having success here.=C2=A0=20 Thanks and retards from=C2=A0=20 Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Barry Drake (b-drake) Date: Sun, 05 May 2013 20:12:05 -0000 Message-Id: <5186BD15.5060201@ntlworld.com> On 05/05/13 20:24, Tom wrote: > It's not usually used as a marketing list for assessing specific strategi= es or ideas. There must be a marketing list or something that would really= appreciate all this work a lot more and be able to use the intelligence. = Now that it is up and avilable it might be easier for anyone in marketing t= o get hold of and use. So, the effort is NOT wasted! Far from it, i have = really enjoyed it. I'm not on any of the marketing lists and have been get= ting increasingly down-hearted about the scene in the UK so it's been a rea= lly positive boost to see someone really pushing and getting good results h= ere. Timing could not have been better because in local elections on Thurs= day we have just voted in an increasingly right-wing, almost fascist, gover= nment that is increasingly dedicated to increasing the wealth of the rich a= nd the poverty of the poor. UKIP got 15%-25% of the vote!! :( So, it's g= ood to see an international open movement having success > here. Oh, this is exactly why I spammed this bug! I have spent many hours on=20 Ubuntu Marketing, Ubunty Advertising et al. With no effect because we=20 have received little or not support from Canonical, and infighting has=20 taken care of the rest! Ubuntu is a fantastic community, but is is too fragmented and anarchic=20 to debug this particular bug! -- Barry Drake is a member of the the Ubuntu Advertising team. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sun, 05 May 2013 22:22:21 -0000 Message-Id: Hi, On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 10:12 PM, Barry Drake wrote: > Ubuntu is a fantastic community, but is is too fragmented and anarchic > to debug this particular bug! If Ubuntu would be a terror organisation, I think everybody would see exactly that - the "thinking global and acting locally" as the most dangerous thing. ;-) And by the way - this is called "mission-type tactics": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission-type_tactics ;-) Best regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Graham (ubuntu-grahams) Date: Mon, 06 May 2013 13:39:17 -0000 Message-Id: <20130506133917.15030.79190.malone@gac.canonical.com> I have Ubuntu in my home, I have also an IT built laptop at work (build with Windows 7) on which I run a VM with Ubuntu. I use Linux and Ubuntu in all areas of computing where usually one would expect to see Windows I have no _need_ for Windows, nor has anyone else in my opinion. Not withstanding some stoneage business apps which refuse to run in Linux. So I go to my local PC world and look for a Linux PC ..? To cut to the chase we need an anti-monopoly class action case to stop Microsoft dealing Linux out of the picture every time PC World et al speak to them. Everybody knows it goes on. The last antitrust case should have gone ahead and broke Microsoft up when they had the opportunity. I really hate posting this, but until this happens, sadly, it's just a pipe dream. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Barry Drake (b-drake) Date: Mon, 06 May 2013 21:34:50 -0000 Message-Id: <20130506213451.17892.98665.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Graham said: "So I go to my local PC world and look for a Linux PC ..?" NO you go to your local PC World and complain ... to the staff, then to the manager. Gently, but firmly, to the effect that they are bound to give proper support to all of their Linux compatible products, (at this time peripherals only). If the staff and the branch manager fail to help, please write to the CEO. This is the way to do it! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Mon, 06 May 2013 22:34:09 -0000 Message-Id: <1367879649.51297.YahooMailNeo@web28902.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) +1 Long gone are the days of behaving like a gentleman and getting treated with respect as a result.=C2=A0 If you think you might be shy&embarrassed then read up on Richard Stallman's philosophies or get the slightly more corporate approach from the Free Software Foundation.=C2=A0 Either should help you clarify your thoughts and maybe give you ideas or good justifications.=C2=A0 Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Graham (ubuntu-grahams) Date: Wed, 08 May 2013 11:27:00 -0000 Message-Id: <20130508112700.24913.66171.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> @Barry and @Tom I appreciate that you are telling me the way which is supposed to give results, but have you actually done this yourselves? Trust me, I am not shy in expressing my opinions. If I walked into a PC World and started ranting off about the lack of suppo= rt for Linux I would be escorted off the premises. And you know it. As far as complaining to the CEO... have you considered what is in it for them? Do you think you could provide a business case why PC world should invest in Linux products if there is no market pull and no return? This is what they are being told by the Microsoft. ....with a side salad of withdrawing volume discounts if they even dare to = speak the word "Linux". Like I say, I hate that this is the situation, but we are not dealing with = a level playing field here. This is why it needs a class action case to level the playing field. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Wed, 08 May 2013 12:27:25 -0000 Message-Id: <1368016045.69135.YahooMailNeo@web28902.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) Barry has.=C2=A0 Check his recent attachments to this list.=C2=A0=20 I'm not suggesting ranting.=C2=A0 Richard Stallman seems to get away with it b= ut i probably wouldn't.=C2=A0 Barry's approach seemed to be very effective.= =C2=A0=20 Make them feel the market pull.=C2=A0 The market is changing.=C2=A0 These s= hops=20 will only realise that if increasingly they find that customers ask for=20 compatibility with Gnu&Linux.=C2=A0=20 As the "age of the desktop"=20 ends we see people use a plethora of mobile devices, from laptops to=20 hand-helds and even down to watches which almost all entirely run on=20 unix-based platforms.=C2=A0 Mostly that is Gnu&Linux (such as Android,=20 Blackberry, soon Ubuntu) but Apple's iThings (iPad, iPhone etc) are also strong in the market.=C2=A0 Often devices are used in a combinations tha= t=20 co-operate with each other.=C2=A0 MS is infamous for taking over rather tha= n=20 co-operating.=C2=A0 Gnu&Linux tends to co-operate.=C2=A0=20 There needs=20 to be many different layers of approach.=C2=A0 Richard Stallman is good for= =20 those that are into "Direct Action" such as ranting or finding the=20 specific day that FSF organises for massed returns of desktops to demand refunds on unused Microsoft licenses.=C2=A0 Direct action entrenches peopl= e=20 though and pushes them into fighting back so we need other approaches.=C2= =A0=20 Class actions and legal routes have been used against MS before and MS often=20 loses in such cases.=C2=A0 The RTF case.=C2=A0 The web-browser wars.=C2=A0 = Generally=20 fighting MS in court seems to suck all the energy and drive of an=20 organisation.=C2=A0 Opera won against Internet Explorer in court but they=20 don't reap the benefit.=C2=A0 At least, not yet.=C2=A0 The companies involv= ed in=20 the RTF case similarly vanished.=C2=A0 They won pyrrhic victories.=C2=A0 Co= urt=20 action needs to continue but so do other approaches.=C2=A0=20 The=20 professional approach of Mark Shuttleworth and they way Barry used are=20 more likely to result in dialogue that opens the way for businesses to=20 realise they need to support the new range of devices that almost=20 exclusively don't use Windows.=C2=A0 If they only support Windows in the=20 future then a lot of those businesses will go bust.=C2=A0 They need to know= =20 that.=C2=A0 We need to let them know.=C2=A0 Humour and professionalism go a= long=20 way.=C2=A0=20 As you point out businesses might suffer if they offer=20 options at the moment because MS will withdraw support from them.=C2=A0=20 However there will be a tipping point where businesses find that they=20 can do without the support because so many people have been demanding=20 non-MS support.=C2=A0=20 It's not the case the 1 approach is good and=20 another bad or that 1 way leads to victory and another doesn't.=C2=A0 All=20 different ways going on at the same time does seem to be getting there.=C2= =A0=20 So, if you are in the UK then check out Barry's recent attachments.=C2=A0 M= odify and apply for yourself.=C2=A0=20 Regards from=20 Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Barry Drake (b-drake) Date: Wed, 08 May 2013 13:39:50 -0000 Message-Id: <20130508133951.24806.24395.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> Exactly Tom! And it gets better! A colleague to whom I recommended the Ad= vent printer contacted Kodak as I suggested. He received the following rep= ly: "Firstly, thank you very much for your feedback. I understand your concerns= and would like to apologise for any inconvenience that the lack of support= may have caused you. The Kodak R&D team had been intending to include Linu= x support with future products, however as you may be aware, we announced w= e would be exiting the consumer inkjet category at the end of 2012 and will= no longer manufacture inkjet printers. Whilst we will provide support for = existing products (including ink) in the market, this does not extent to pr= oviding support for new operating systems." Almost all peripheral manufacturers are now very 'Linux aware'. Our task is to ask questions at local supplier level, and make senior management aware when local staff fail to advise on compatibility. The old Latin motto which translates as "A drop wears a hole in a stone not by force, but by falling often" best describes the method of action I am proposing. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: houstonbofh (leesharp) Date: Wed, 08 May 2013 14:04:27 -0000 Message-Id: <518A5B6B.80309@hal-pc.org> On 05/08/2013 06:27 AM, Graham wrote: > If I walked into a PC World and started ranting off about the lack of sup= port for Linux I would be escorted off the premises. > And you know it. > > As far as complaining to the CEO... have you considered what is in it > for them? > > Do you think you could provide a business case why PC world should > invest in Linux products if there is no market pull and no return? This is where my patch comes in. I am a consultant, and for all of my=20 clients, including full Windows shops, I only recommend hardware with=20 Linux support. I say this directly to vendors. When asked why, I say; "Linux driver support is a demonstration of the vendor commitment to=20 driver support in general. If they will not support Linux, why should I=20 think they will support Windows 9? Or Chromebook? Or whatever comes=20 next? By only using vendors with a high commitment to driver support, I=20 am making the best plans I can to maximize my investment." There is your business case to only purchase Linux supported hardware.=20 And that significantly increases the size of your market. Lee --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 09 May 2013 00:31:08 -0000 Message-Id: On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 1:27 PM, Graham wrote: > If I walked into a PC World and started ranting off about the lack of sup= port for Linux I would be escorted off the premises. > And you know it. And that's why sometimes Linux folks are put into the same basket as anarchists or even terrorists. > As far as complaining to the CEO... have you considered what is in it fo= r them? That's indeed one of the first problems: While the IT admins and developers are mostly already pro-Linux and some users even, it's the CEOs that decide. And that's why the year of the Linux desktop will not come before the young pro-Linux users get into CEO positions (which I think may probably occur in 30 years - if so). In my opinion a switch to Open Source pays off in the long run. Most managers do consider only the next quarter, so here already begins the problem. > Do you think you could provide a business case why PC world should > invest in Linux products if there is no market pull and no return? Only yesterday I had a discussion with an IT admin about some software and he complained, that he would use more platform independent software or Linux software if there would exist the appropriate software. The point is: As long as the customers are not telling company xyz: "Hey, your product looked interesting, but you don't support Linux so I don't buy it", no vendor sees the need to act. Fortunately some vendors care in the meantime. Only if the customers say no - definitely no - to propriatary solutions, vendors need to act accordingly. > This is what they are being told by the Microsoft. > ....with a side salad of withdrawing volume discounts if they even dare t= o speak the word "Linux". And this is what we have seen with Dell... > Like I say, I hate that this is the situation, but we are not dealing wit= h a level playing field here. > This is why it needs a class action case to level the playing field. Agree with you. Best regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Aditya Avinash (adityaavinash) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 12:03:58 -0000 Message-Id: <20130524120359.7396.30222.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> The usability of windows is easier than ubuntu. Why? It's the mind that pla= ys the game. Every person i know is afraid to install ubuntu on their metal= . Why? Because they think of it as a "geek", "hacker", "complex" operating = system. Smart people use ubuntu. Why android is so popular even though it i= s an open-source os? Because, you dont need to install extra libraries and = packages like N900. People like to have "easy to deploy and start using" ut= ilities. When i first installed ubuntu, it's a pain in the ass. I have form= atted about 10 times to get the correct configuration. People hate to do th= at. Don't say to me that i am wrong and novice. People you want to use them= ubuntu are far dumber than me. Solution: Make more fuss about software center than using terminal. Geeks t= hinks it's cool to use terminal. But, people hate it. Bring more apps to ub= untu. Develop installers rather than installing from software center (at le= ast the softwares that are not present on software center). --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 14:47:04 -0000 Message-Id: On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 2:03 PM, Aditya Avinash <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrot= e: > The usability of windows is easier than ubuntu. Why? It's the mind that p= lays the game. Every person i know is afraid to install ubuntu on their met= al. Why? Because they think of it as a "geek", "hacker", "complex" operatin= g system. [...] People like to have "easy to deploy and start using" utilit= ies. When i first installed ubuntu, it's a pain in the ass. a) There's barely a normal end-user who self-installs his operating systems. In the company there are IT departments for preparing the machine and at home family members or friends who are in IT. Or for home users even more common: They just take what comes preinstalled from the shop - and that's where bug 1 gets relevant. b) If you use certified hardware, the installation is no pain and works out-of-the-box for the most common stuff. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: A. Denton (aquina) Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 01:40:30 -0000 Message-Id: <20130526014031.26143.96165.malone@wampee.canonical.com> The bugs name should be altered. I think Microsoft is just one player in this game. Have you realized some things changed since the 90's? Just imagine... Oracle took over Sun, Apple released OS 10 (X) and BSD is a powerful and usable OS . :-] Seriously guys I think Microsoft is not the biggest problem we have and neither is Apple or some other company. The biggest problem right now is 'us'. I think we have a problem with Linux, with quality and with the direction in which things are going. Yes, I say we have a problem with quality and 100k+ bugs here. We have a problem with users still making a valid point in saying Ubuntu is to hard to install and to yet not usable in the same way and everywhere like the systems of our competitors. All that is not Microsoft's fault. And even a major market share for a dinosaur like them is not a problem in the first place. However it matters whether our quality is better or not. Bill Gates was wrong when he replied to Jobs in the 80's that it doesn't matter. It does matter =E2= =80=93 you can see it yourself! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Barry Drake (b-drake) Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 09:49:42 -0000 Message-Id: <20130526094942.26210.51107.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Part of the problem has to be OUR negative thinking. "We have a problem with users still making a valid point in saying Ubuntu is to hard to install". Just try installing Microsoft Windows from scratch. The last fresh install of Ubuntu 13.10 took me less than twenty minutes and worked 'out of the box'. On the same hardware, Windows 7 took about an hour plus the time finding drivers ... Even then the resulting installation was far more clunky than the Alpha version of Ubuntu. Also, if a user works with the Ubuntu Software Centre, isn't that really simple compared with the messy installation of Windows applications? Last week, my burglar alarm engineer was telling me that their company is considering moving to Linux because Microsoft is not secure, and is unreliable these days. Apple is too 'locked in'. Linux is perfect for their needs. As more and more organisations turn to Linux for these reasons, then ordinary folk who work for them will want something better on their home computers. The biggest problem we face is still the lack of Ubuntu pre-installed kit. We can aid that situation by raising awareness with total confidence that we represent the BEST operating system in the world!!!!! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 12:29:41 -0000 Message-Id: <1369657781.92657.YahooMailNeo@web28903.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :)=C2=A0=20 I think it is fairly easy to install for most people.=C2=A0 Even people tha= t have no experience installing any other OS.=C2=A0 It takes me around an h= our or more but i add tons of extras such as Medibuntu and am typically doi= ng so on fairly ancient machines.=C2=A0 As a noob it took me a lot longer b= efore i was happy with my system.=C2=A0=20 I hope the alarms company has someone that has some experience and preferably with a Gnu&Linux rather than purely Windows-based experience.=C2=A0 Perhaps offer them your services?=C2=A0 Regards from=20 Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 12:59:53 -0000 Message-Id: <1369659593.30708.YahooMailNeo@web28905.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) The problem is that people are comparing installing Ubuntu against using a = system that is already installed for them.=C2=A0=20 A pre-installed systems means you don't have to do anything to install it.= =C2=A0 Of course that is easier than installing it yourself!=C2=A0=20 I'm not quite sure about the quality issue.=C2=A0=20 1.=C2=A0 Bug-reports:=C2=A0 Is there anywhere you can look up how many bug-= reports have been filed against non-unix-based systems?=C2=A0 Do any Windows users know how to post bug-reports against their system?=C2=A0 Is it positively encouraged and made easy to post them?=C2=A0 How many of the 100K are duplicates or likely to be fixed by fixing the same bit of code?=C2=A0 Do a= ll the 100K affect Ubuntu or are some against other distros? 2.=C2=A0 Works anywhere:=C2=A0 Errr, everywhere i have installed Ubuntu it = works well.=C2=A0 I even have a full install on a usb-stick (not a LiveUsb so it doesn't do hardware checking so thoroughly) that seems to work in every machine (not tried it on a Win8 on yet) 3.=C2=A0 Malware:=C2=A0 Ubuntu never suffers from this.=C2=A0 Mac seems to = get 1 or 2 every couple of years.=C2=A0 Android and Blackberry seem fairly immune too.= =C2=A0 Also what do we consider as competitors, as rivals?=C2=A0 Mac, Android, Bla= ckberry, Bsd and other unix-based OSes seem to operate as fair competition.= =C2=A0 Each has a niche.=C2=A0 Each, to some extent, operates in co-operati= ve competition for/against each other.=C2=A0=20 Regards from=20 Tom :)=C2=A0=20 >________________________________ > From: A. Denton <> >Sent: Sunday, 26 May 2013, 2:40 > >=20 >The bugs name should be altered. I think Microsoft is just one player in >this game. Have you realized some things changed since the 90's? Just >imagine... Oracle took over Sun, Apple released OS 10 (X) and BSD is a >powerful and usable OS . :-] > >Seriously guys I think Microsoft is not the biggest problem we have and >neither is Apple or some other company. The biggest problem right now is >'us'. I think we have a problem with Linux, with quality and with the >direction in which things are going. Yes, I say we have a problem with >quality and 100k+ bugs here. We have a problem with users still making a >valid point in saying Ubuntu is to hard to install and to yet not usable >in the same way and everywhere like the systems of our competitors. > >All that is not Microsoft's fault. And even a major market share for a >dinosaur like them is not a problem in the first place. However it >matters whether our quality is better or not. Bill Gates was wrong when >he replied to Jobs in the 80's that it doesn't matter. It does matter =E2= =80=93 >you can see it yourself! > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 13:17:02 -0000 Message-Id: On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 3:40 AM, A. Denton wrote: > The bugs name should be altered. I think Microsoft is just one player in > this game. I agree with you. However, from all the players Microsoft is the one that affects me most (in a negative way). And I say this although (or maybe exactly because of that ;-) ) I still know Windows better than Linux. > The biggest problem right now is > 'us'. I think we have a problem with Linux, with quality and with the > direction in which things are going. Yes, I say we have a problem with > quality and 100k+ bugs here. Yes, you are right - too many bugs and e.g. such things as recently, that an update of libreoffice makes all menus appearing empty should definitely not occur (even if fixed pretty fast imagine how annoying for all people under stress by finishing some documentation and then menus are gone). So of course, quality should be better regardless of the crap that others are producing. Pointing to others that they produce even worse results is not a solution and bad behaviour even if of course it is less annoying chosing the option that produces less (long-term) troubles among the amount of crappy solutions. And yes, instead of fighting (like Wayland vs Mir) there should be more combined power. > We have a problem with users still making a > valid point in saying Ubuntu is to hard to install and to yet not usable > in the same way and everywhere like the systems of our competitors. The difference here is: The normal end user pretty seldom installs Windows on his/her own (as in Companies this is done by IT departments and at home by family members or friends who are more in IT - or it already comes preinstalled) while Ubuntu they _have to_ install on their own often because no Linux guy in reach and you can't get so easily a machine with Linux preinstalled (we are back to bug #1 core request here). > All that is not Microsoft's fault. And even a major market share for a > dinosaur like them is not a problem in the first place. However it > matters whether our quality is better or not. Bill Gates was wrong when > he replied to Jobs in the 80's that it doesn't matter. It does matter Of course quality matters! And if Ubuntu would be a type of "Download one single install medium for everything - insert install medium - click ok for default install (or advanced to reach the options for the IT guys) and run out-of-the-box on any hardware" would be awesome so that even a trained monkey could do it. But still I see this as a secondary issue because installation is already quite simple and easier than installing Windows (from scratch with all the needed drivers). On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 11:49 AM, Barry Drake wrote: > Part of the problem has to be OUR negative thinking. "We have a problem > with users still making a valid point in saying Ubuntu is to hard to > install". Just try installing Microsoft Windows from scratch. The last > fresh install of Ubuntu 13.10 took me less than twenty minutes and > worked 'out of the box'. On the same hardware, Windows 7 took about an > hour plus the time finding drivers ... Even then the resulting > installation was far more clunky than the Alpha version of Ubuntu. Yup, I have similar experiences - but as I mentioned earlier, "normal" Users usually don't install their computer on their own. And further: I know people who bought a new PC (completely new hardware + Windows preinstalled) because their PC got viruses and they never got an installation media when buying their PC (and of course didn't know that somewhere at Microsoft you can download it - BTW never searched myself for those, I just heard that this is possible). > [..] their company > is considering moving to Linux because Microsoft is not secure, and is > unreliable these days. Apple is too 'locked in'. Linux is perfect for > their needs. Yes, there are these and other reasons to move to Linux. Despite many advantages of course there are still issues. For example I am trying to get a new PC for my wife and on my last attempt about two weeks ago for the first time I had (and still have) serious issues to get a Windows-free PC from Dell that is not about 100 % more expensive than a comparable PC with Windows. And I never had such problems before! So regarding to Bug #1 for me currently it seems to get even worse than better. > As more and more organisations turn to Linux for these > reasons, then ordinary folk who work for them will want something better > on their home computers. My experience is the other way round: Employees want to work on what they know from home (because grew up with it). Nowadays in schools there are even laptop-classes where they do everything on their laptop. Expect those people running their own company later: If they are more familiar with Ubuntu they will tell their IT department to install that everywhere. And that's why we are still about 30 years away from the year of the Linux desktop - because the CEOs currently steering companies grow up with Windows. ;-) Best regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Gianfranco Costamagna (costamagnagianfranco) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 13:34:53 -0000 Message-Id: <20130527133453.26281.31061.malone@wampee.canonical.com> The problem is that on one side we have "Microsoft" "Apple" "Google" and so on, on the other we have http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Linux_Distribution_Timel= ine.svg Having this kind of fragmentation isn't really BAD for the whole linux community, as a developer I spend so much of my time in fixing bugs and watching if other distros already fixed it. I don't like your program/distro? instead of contributing and trying to find some balance between requirements I fork your project. This fork will spare many developers forces, likely die in a couple of years and every good improvement will be lost forever. This is a bug in linux, not in microsoft in my opinion. I can understand debian/ubuntu, mint of me is not an useful distro, since i= t comes with the same pourpose as ubuntu. Debian instead wants to be stable and "free", so there is a good reason for= leaving it. Anyway I have to say as a developer I NEVER introduced a delta in packages I maintain, I always try to find a way to include the fix in debian too, and wait for the ubuntu sync. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 10:38:52 -0000 Message-Id: <20130530103854.27265.92789.malone@gac.canonical.com> Personal computing today is a broader proposition than it was in 2004: phones, tablets, wearables and other devices are all part of the mix for our digital lives. From a competitive perspective, that broader market has healthy competition, with IOS and Android representing a meaningful share (see http://www.zdnet.com/windows-has-fallen-behind-apple-ios-and- google-android-7000008699/ and in particular http://cdn- static.zdnet.com/i/r/story/70/00/008699/meeker620-620x466-620x466.jpg?hash= =3DZQxmZmDjAz&upscale=3D1). Android may not be my or your first choice of Linux, but it is without doubt an open source platform that offers both practical and economic benefits to users and industry. So we have both competition, and good representation for open source, in personal computing. Even though we have only played a small part in that shift, I think it's important for us to recognize that the shift has taken place. So from Ubuntu's perspective, this bug is now closed. There is a social element to this bug report as well, of course. It served for many as a sort of declaration of intent. But it's better for us to focus our intent on excellence in our own right, rather than our impact on someone else's product. In the (many) years since this bug was filed, we've figured out how to be amazing on the cloud, and I hope soon also how to be amazing for developers on their desktops, and perhaps even for everyday users across that full range of devices. I would rather we find a rallying call that celebrates those insights, and leadership. It's worth noting that today, if you're into cloud computing, the Microsoft IAAS team are both technically excellent and very focused on having ALL OS's including Linux guests like Ubuntu run extremely well on Azure, making them a pleasure to work with. Perhaps the market shift has played a role in that. Circumstances have changed, institutions have adapted, so should we. Along those lines, it's good to reflect on how much has changed since 2004, and how fast it's changed. For Ubuntu, our goal remains to deliver fantastic experiences: for developers, for people building out production infrastructure, and for end-users on a range of devices. We are doing all of that in an environment that changes completely every decade. So we have to be willing to make big changes ourselves - in our processes, our practices, our tools, and our relationships. Change this bug status is but a tiny example. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Paul Flint (flint) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 10:50:29 -0000 Message-Id: Dear Mark, Nice job fixing this bug. Kindest Regards, Paul Flint (802) 479-2360 Home (802) 595-9365 Cell /************************************ Based upon email reliability concerns, please send an acknowledgment in response to this note. Paul Flint 17 Averill Street Barre, VT 05641 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Cariaga (mzc) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 10:57:19 -0000 Message-Id: Great job Ubuntu! It's time to file a regression... Localized bug perhaps... It's the lack of retail presence (e.g. Walmart, best buy, etc) of Ubuntu desktop and laptops in North America. And yes, there are popular online stores here, but not that much physical stores yet. On 2013-05-30 3:46 AM, "Mark Shuttleworth" <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Personal computing today is a broader proposition than it was in 2004: > phones, tablets, wearables and other devices are all part of the mix for > our digital lives. From a competitive perspective, that broader market > has healthy competition, with IOS and Android representing a meaningful > share (see http://www.zdnet.com/windows-has-fallen-behind-apple-ios-and- > google-android-7000008699/ and in particular http://cdn- > > static.zdnet.com/i/r/story/70/00/008699/meeker620-620x466-620x466.jpg?has= h=3DZQxmZmDjAz&upscale=3D1 > ). > > Android may not be my or your first choice of Linux, but it is without > doubt an open source platform that offers both practical and economic > benefits to users and industry. So we have both competition, and good > representation for open source, in personal computing. > > Even though we have only played a small part in that shift, I think it's > important for us to recognize that the shift has taken place. So from > Ubuntu's perspective, this bug is now closed. > > There is a social element to this bug report as well, of course. It > served for many as a sort of declaration of intent. But it's better for > us to focus our intent on excellence in our own right, rather than our > impact on someone else's product. In the (many) years since this bug was > filed, we've figured out how to be amazing on the cloud, and I hope soon > also how to be amazing for developers on their desktops, and perhaps > even for everyday users across that full range of devices. I would > rather we find a rallying call that celebrates those insights, and > leadership. > > It's worth noting that today, if you're into cloud computing, the > Microsoft IAAS team are both technically excellent and very focused on > having ALL OS's including Linux guests like Ubuntu run extremely well on > Azure, making them a pleasure to work with. Perhaps the market shift has > played a role in that. Circumstances have changed, institutions have > adapted, so should we. > > Along those lines, it's good to reflect on how much has changed since > 2004, and how fast it's changed. For Ubuntu, our goal remains to deliver > fantastic experiences: for developers, for people building out > production infrastructure, and for end-users on a range of devices. We > are doing all of that in an environment that changes completely every > decade. So we have to be willing to make big changes ourselves - in our > processes, our practices, our tools, and our relationships. Change this > bug status is but a tiny example. > > ** Changed in: ubuntu > Status: In Progress =3D> Fix Released > > ** Also affects: Ubuntu Dapper > Importance: Undecided > Status: New > > -- > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share > > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: > New > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in The Linux Kernel: > New > Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in Neobot: > New > Status in Novabot: > New > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > Invalid > Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu: > Fix Released > Status in The Dapper Drake: > New > Status in Arch Linux: > Confirmed > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC > marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant > to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is > driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to > all." > > "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software > gives everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with > whoever they like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the > spectrum it enables the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective > experience and expertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the > other, we are able to give access to essential software for those who > couldn=E2=80=99t otherwise afford it =E2=80=93 an advantage that=E2=80=99= s keenly felt by > individuals and organisations all over the world." > * http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy > > Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and > concentrates control over the technology which powers our society into > the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles > innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious > anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic > practices. > > This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > 2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software. > > What happens: > > Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre- > installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operating > system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be > proprietary. > > What should happen: > > A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. > > * http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html > * http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines > * http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd > > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: nameremoved (errorwhywhywhy-deactivatedaccount) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 11:14:24 -0000 Message-Id: <20130530111424.5528.52778.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> Micro$haft still have a grip in Australia, but I have been noticing that chrome OS and andriod have made a decent appearence. However as of yet I have not seen a single computer with Ubuntu Pre-installed. (Or any Linux distros.) Good to hear that bug 1 is being fixed elsewhere! However I believe that there is still work to be done, If we start to slow down our progress there is a possiblity that the propietary giants will have time to get back on their feet. We also, need a market presence here in Australia. And all I got from what Mark Shuttleworth said was 'Give Up'... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Gianfranco Costamagna (costamagnagianfranco) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 11:20:17 -0000 Message-Id: <20130530112017.6151.83078.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> 2004-08-20 2013-05-30 Almost ten years and 1834 comments, and bug FIXED. great job Open Source! Anyway would be really nice if google one day will start calling android just Android/Linux --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Cariaga (mzc) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 11:25:24 -0000 Message-Id: Martyn putting $ on Microsoft is not cool anymore. It's used by trolls. If we advocate enough, eventually we'll see changes.... On 2013-05-30 4:21 AM, "Martyn Vallett" <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Micro$haft still have a grip in Australia, but I have been noticing that > chrome OS and andriod have made a decent appearence. However as of yet I > have not seen a single computer with Ubuntu Pre-installed. (Or any Linux > distros.) > > Good to hear that bug 1 is being fixed elsewhere! > > However I believe that there is still work to be done, If we start to > slow down our progress there is a possiblity that the propietary giants > will have time to get back on their feet. We also, need a market > presence here in Australia. > > And all I got from what Mark Shuttleworth said was 'Give Up'... > > -- > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share > > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: > New > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in The Linux Kernel: > New > Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in Neobot: > New > Status in Novabot: > New > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > Invalid > Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu: > Fix Released > Status in The Dapper Drake: > New > Status in Arch Linux: > Confirmed > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New > > Bug description: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC > marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant > to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is > driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to > all." > > "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software > gives everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with > whoever they like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the > spectrum it enables the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective > experience and expertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the > other, we are able to give access to essential software for those who > couldn=E2=80=99t otherwise afford it =E2=80=93 an advantage that=E2=80=99= s keenly felt by > individuals and organisations all over the world." > * http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy > > Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and > concentrates control over the technology which powers our society into > the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles > innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious > anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic > practices. > > This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > 2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software. > > What happens: > > Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre- > installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operating > system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be > proprietary. > > What should happen: > > A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. > > * http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html > * http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines > * http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd > > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Shuduo Sang (sangshuduo) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 13:30:37 -0000 Message-Id: <20130530133038.4231.80892.malone@soybean.canonical.com> I'm very happy to see this bug be closed. :D --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Dmitry Marakasov (amdmi3) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 13:33:37 -0000 Message-Id: <20130530133337.27733.47626.malone@gac.canonical.com> The fix is invalid: the bug clearly states that it covers desktop PC market, while the "fix" cites general consumer computing market statistics. While it is true that with the spread of mobile platforms desktop market share is less important for Ubuntu, desktop market specifically is still heavily dominated by Microsoft: http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market- share.aspx?qprid=3D8&qpcustomd=3D0 and that creates real problems for Linux users: http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/24869.html --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Zisu Andrei (matzipan) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 13:57:51 -0000 Message-Id: <20130530135751.4366.97472.malone@soybean.canonical.com> I do not agree with this bug being fixed. Even if the PC market is declining, it's still going to be here for a long while, as tablets/phones are currently consumer-centric and we still need workstations. That market still has only two major players in it: Mac OS and Windows. Which means Microsoft will still lead it. This is still the big chapter where FOSS fails badly. And #1 should show that and should be open until FOSS gets polished as it should. Hardware support (and I'm looking especially at you Nvidia and AMD/ATI!), endless minor bugs that even when confirmed are never checked, friendliness to the end-user (when things go bad, it's back to the command line, not too helpful for my grandma), and an easy way to find software that you need which runs on your platform with at least one proper choice in each category (Ubuntu Software Center has failed so far, but, no worries, Windows Store has failed too). Only if the shiny new Unity will fix these, then it will have the chance to succeed, and this bug can be closed in a few years after that (2016-2017?). If you want to say the market has changed and Canonical will no longer focu= s on PCs, mark it as Won't fix.=20 If you want to say Canonical won't focus only on PCs, go ahead. But doesn't= mean the problem has been fixed. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: motters (fuzzgun) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 14:40:52 -0000 Message-Id: <20130530144052.10368.93317.malone@wampee.canonical.com> As some others have said I wouldn't yet regard this bug as having been fixed, although the situation today is marginally better than it was in 2004. If I walk into an electrical store, supermarket or any of the places where people commonly buy desktop or laptop computers chances are that there will be no GNU/Linux option available, and certainly no option to buy a computer without proprietary software preinstalled. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Bradley M. Kuhn (bkuhn-ebb) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 15:44:58 -0000 Message-Id: <87vc60tqth.fsf@ebb.org> I'm not against the closing of this bug; however, the closed status should be something like "Can't Fix" [0]. While, technically speaking, Microsoft doesn't have the majority of the marketshare anymore, the originally prescribed goal of this bug was: > A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. Note that *even if* we count Android/Linux, and also count every type of device like mobile phones and tables, nearly all of those devices -- even those running Android/Linux or Ubuntu -- include proprietary software. (Many Android/Linux devices include *mostly* proprietary software, since nearly all the applications are proprietary.) Thus, it's just not accurate at this time to argue "Fix Released" for the key issue that this bug was supposed to be about: namely, "most devices in use today are running mostly proprietary software". It'll probably be generations before we close that bug, and that's why I'd argue the problem probably can't be fixed as part of the lifecycle of Ubuntu itself. Thus "Can't Fix" is the right bug-close status. [0] "Won't Fix" isn't right because that would presupose Ubuntu actually had the ability to fix the problem and chose not to. Sadly, I don't think it was ever really within the power of the Ubuntu project to fix the problem in the first place. Nevertheless, I thank Ubuntu for the early years (i.e., pre-UbuntuOne: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-servers/+bug/375272 ) when Ubuntu truly tried to close Bug 1. It's a tough job to give software freedom to the majority of users, but we should all keep trying to do it. --=20 -- bkuhn --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: ttoine (ttoine) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 15:57:44 -0000 Message-Id: <20130530155744.27389.13253.malone@gac.canonical.com> Back when the #1 bug was fixed, PC was almost the only stuff to work and communicate in the digital world. Since, smartphones, tablets and other devices appear. They are computers, and they don't run a Microsoft OS. So, yes, the bug is fixed. And in many countries, brands like Lenovo sells more PC with Ubuntu than with Windows. So, yes, the bug is fixed. Next step: having Ubuntu or other OS than Windows on PC, in physical stores and shops!!! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: IKT (ikt) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 16:13:36 -0000 Message-Id: <20130530161336.6184.79677.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> Good news everyone :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Presianbg (presianbg) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 16:44:54 -0000 Message-Id: <20130530164454.5984.52616.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> 10x to Win 8 :D --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Paul White (paulw2u) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 17:15:07 -0000 Message-Id: <20130530171507.6118.26434.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> In my view this was never really a bug. There are dozens of other bugs that need to be fixed to make the Ubuntu family 100% usable and a real alternatives to Windows. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 17:16:41 -0000 Message-Id: <1369934201.49275.YahooMailNeo@web28901.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) +1 It is already "the year of the linux desktop" except that it's really "the = year of the linux portable device" because people are increasingly moving a= way from desktops.=C2=A0=20 Regards from Tom :)=C2=A0 >________________________________ > From: ttoine >Sent: Thursday, 30 May 2013, 16:57 > >Back when the #1 bug was fixed, PC was almost the only stuff to work and >communicate in the digital world. Since, smartphones, tablets and other >devices appear. They are computers, and they don't run a Microsoft OS. >So, yes, the bug is fixed. And in many countries, brands like Lenovo >sells more PC with Ubuntu than with Windows. > >So, yes, the bug is fixed. Next step: having Ubuntu or other OS than >Windows on PC, in physical stores and shops!!! > > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Ma Hsiao-chun (mahsiaochun) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 17:25:57 -0000 Message-Id: <20130530172557.5887.79617.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> It's werid that we celebrate the fact that we already failed in the desktop market; consider GNOME's 10x10 goal and the reality. I'm a FOSS advocate but I feel that the result is well deserved. What's the point of Windows? It is a DEPENDABLE platform that developers can write software and make profits. Yes, Microsoft ended VB6, VFP9, ..., which annoyed many loyal developers. However, Microsoft continue to support the runtimes even in Windows 8. On the other hand, Linux GUI programs get obsoleted very fast, if it is not continously maintained. Linux people are always trying to build fancy systems using FOSS while being hostile towards third-parties; third-party software is hard to package and it may work for only a limited time before things break. Default Ubuntu installation includes a productivity suite, LibreOffice. Wow! But as it is generally inferior to Microsoft Office, it is worthless. Every point Windows sucks, there is some software to deal with, most notably the virus issue. Ubuntu seems to become the reference platform of Linux desktop over years. I find that "Linux =3D Ubuntu" is a life saver for a non-FOSS- enthusitic third-party developer, it's a good start but too late. Do we have a well-defined SDK yet? No. Moving to Qt is a sane decision but a bit too late.=20 ( Microsoft's SDK is called Visual Studio, quite integrated, just slow ) Do we have a package system suitable for end users yet (like Android's syst= em)? No. I see some work in process, also too late. ( Windows before Windows Store make installation much easier than uninstall= ation. Though the installation system is abused by many software to include= toolbars crap, it is still the way many people familiar with. ) Do we have a well-defined UX yet? Yes and No. The Unity UX is well-defined, I presume. But the apps from GNOME is constantly having stupid changes. Don't forget t= hat we don't have a huge pool of third-party software; we cannot ship crapp= y apps, .e.g, Notepad, like MSFT do. ( Microsoft breaks UI in Windows 8, but they have resource to do that. ) Can people do almost everything with Ubuntu in GUI? Yes and No. Many GUI program in Linux is simple-minded, when things OK it works. When t= hings go wrong, terminal is the only rescue. How can one know which repo has certificate error when Update Manager compl= ains? Do we have good support from OEMs? No. There are Ubuntu pre-installed on some low-end computer models but OEMs don= 't put enough resource to back them. They always recommend Windows. ( You must know who is the real boss of the OEMs. ) I have some personal advices for people have similar feeling. 1. When possible do FOSS in HTML5. HTML5 seems to be the only way to destru= ct the notion of system requirement WinX/WinY/WinZ.=20 2. Otherwise, do cross-platform FOSS. It can be hard, but I feel that it is= worthwhile to test our software stack by buidling cross-platform applicati= on. We may also leave some useful documentation during the process. Cross-p= latform also ensures a wider user base. 3. Try do things in the "Windows way" and report bugs, if any, to direct up= stream. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Charles Profitt (cprofitt) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 17:26:02 -0000 Message-Id: <20130530172602.10399.72370.malone@wampee.canonical.com> I agree with Mark that things have changed... If we take the term PC to mean personal computing, which is proper, then indeed Microsoft no longer has market dominance. I also focus on this part of Mark's statement: "But it's better for us to focus our intent on excellence in our own right, rather than our impact on someone else's product." I, again, agree... in fact I have had this issue with bug #1 since the beginning of my time using Ubuntu. Microsoft was never 'the problem'; the problem was the lack of a quality alternative. Ubuntu has helped create an environment that has a quality alternative to OS X and Windows. People, more than ever, can make a choice. Sure there are still issues with hardware compatibility, but they are not anywhere near as bad as they once were. It is time to look forward and pursue expanding the quality of open source applications to give users more and more choices. Thanks to all of those that worked on the open source bits that went in to making Ubuntu what it is today. May the next 10 years be as fruitful! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 17:59:58 -0000 Message-Id: <1369936798.60921.YahooMailNeo@web28905.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) I do not think this bug-report should be closed.=C2=A0=20 There have been some good developments but it's not the end of the story.= =C2=A0=C2=A0 I think Ubuntu does have the ability to close this bug but only in collaboration with other projects and that is happening even if it's unofficially.=C2=A0 People often start with Ubuntu as their 1st step into Gnu&Linux and then so= me of those go on to other projects.=C2=A0 Reactions against the Unity UI h= as given strength to Cinnamon and Mate perhaps giving each the critical mas= s they needed to become more viable.=C2=A0 Both became quite strong.=C2=A0 = Maybe some merging will happen but even if not there is a lot of discussion= and a lot of lessons being learned and great developments in an area that = had seemed to be getting quite stuck in following a certain path.=C2=A0 I'm= finding a LOT more people are suddenly far more willing to try out Ubuntu = BECAUSE OF the Unity interface.=C2=A0=C2=A0 If you think of Ubuntu as a stand-alone project then maybe it wont ever be the one that topples MS's dominance but Ubuntu is NOT ALONE.=C2=A0 It's part of a huge eco-system that are in co-operative competition with each other.=C2=A0 I think a lot of people that left Ubuntu may well return.=C2=A0 It's part o= f the cycle that many people have gone through since the earliest days of U= buntu.=C2=A0 The people that join because they like the Unity UI may also s= tep up and become very useful in the future.=C2=A0=20 So, it's not over at all.=C2=A0 It's not even the beginning of the end.=C2= =A0 It's just the beginning of another tumultuous and possibly exciting cha= pter in the history of Ubuntu.=C2=A0=20 Regards from=20 Tom :)=C2=A0=20 >________________________________ > From: Bradley M. Kuhn > > > >[0] "Won't Fix" isn't right because that would presuppose Ubuntu actually >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 had the ability to fix the problem and chose not to.=C2=A0=20 > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: PJO (lexicographer) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 18:23:16 -0000 Message-Id: <20130530182318.27389.26769.malone@gac.canonical.com> The closure comment reads like something agreed to as part of a deal with Microsoft. Declaring a bug to be fixed and actually fixing it are two different things. Shuttleworth should know this. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Ma Hsiao-chun (mahsiaochun) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 18:27:59 -0000 Message-Id: On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 1:59 AM, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > People often start with Ubuntu as their 1st step into Gnu&Linux and then = some of those go on to other projects. Reactions against the Unity UI has = given strength to Cinnamon and Mate perhaps giving each the critical mass t= hey needed to become more viable. Both became quite strong. Maybe some me= rging will happen but even if not there is a lot of discussion and a lot of= lessons being learned and great developments in an area that had seemed to= be getting quite stuck in following a certain path. I'm finding a LOT mor= e people are suddenly far more willing to try out Ubuntu BECAUSE OF the Uni= ty interface. Who cares the desktop UI? Most non-Linux people cares about gaming, from my limited observations. For example, my friends are playing DotA, what should I do as a Linux user do? I know I can use wine or buy CrossOver. But none of them can make I feel Linux superior in any sense. Worse if my GPU doesn't work well (though Warcraft III should be a piece of cake today) . Why do people go to other distros where they basically get alternative desktop UI and arguably better software repository and/or packaging system? Why bother? Yes, Ubuntu is more convenient if the user has a *nix mind. But how is such mind cultivated? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Randall Ross (randall) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 19:26:34 -0000 Message-Id: <51A7A7EA.90705@ubuntu.com> My thoughts: 1) On perseverance: Giving up is not an option. "Can't Fix" admits defeat. 2) On pragmatism: We might need to temporarily accept a binary blob (or three) or even a proprietary service along the road to Freedomville. When we do, we've introduced a bug to be fixed later. (It's a bit like taking shortcuts in programming. Sometimes we do that to get the result faster, knowing that there's debt to be repaid down the road.) 3) On timeline: Ubuntu will outlive all of us. "Ubuntu is not just software." When making plans we should consider a planning horizon of at least 20 years. 4) On history: Just because others have failed to implement a business model that maintains independence from capital markets, and respects, spreads and preserves freedom, we should not assume that is the 100% probable case. History is not always a good predictor of the future and swans are sometimes black. Cheers, Randall. Ubuntu Evangelists Team. --=20 Ubuntu Buzz Generator /"Ubuntu is not just software."/ Join Ubuntu Vancouver and see for yourself. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 19:41:19 -0000 Message-Id: <1369942879.64136.YahooMailNeo@web28904.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) That is what i thought at first but there was a crucial paragraph in there = that said the main aim is now to just increase the quality of the product r= ather than the main aim being to fix this bug.=C2=A0=20 Personally i have always seen this as a longer-term "wish-list" or "feature= request" rather than something being worked on directly.=C2=A0 Sure some i= ndividuals and organisations have deliberately done work on this but i wasn= 't here early enough to catch any seriously coordinated work across the who= le of the project to fix this bug.=C2=A0 The best i've seen was Barry's att= achments and game-play.=C2=A0=20 I thought Ubuntu had always been primarily focused on quality of the produc= t and on developing an open friendly community with this bug being one of t= he inevitable results of that work.=C2=A0 So, as far as i'm concerned there= are no changes in direction.=C2=A0=20 Maybe things were different before 2008 but i joined then and found the pro= duct was far better quality than Windows in all sorts of ways that had real= ly niggled me about Windows.=C2=A0 Sure there were a few things that didn't= work perfectly, a few apps where i had to leave long-term favs behind and = switch to others (which became new favs) and a few stupid games but now i h= ave more fun getting involved and meeting interesting people all over the w= orld (not afk tho).=C2=A0 I don't have so much time for games but do have m= uch more fun and still enjoy Wesnoth and others when i get time.=C2=A0=20 Btw i prefer the term "Microsquish".=C2=A0 It's less combative and is frien= dly and cute.=C2=A0 Even Windows fanboys seem quite happy with it.=C2=A0 It= still gets the point across.=C2=A0=20 Regards from=20 Tom :)=C2=A0 >________________________________ > From: Martyn Vallett <1@bugs.launchpad.net> >Sent: Thursday, 30 May 2013, 12:14 > >And all I got from what Mark Shuttleworth said was 'Give Up'... > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Barry Drake (b-drake) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 19:58:02 -0000 Message-Id: <20130530195802.5887.8476.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> Well, I don't think Mark said anything like 'give up'. I agree that this bug has evolved to the point that it has to be closed due to a major change in character. My suggestion: Mark (not anyone else) submit a new bug commanding the 'state of the art'. If Mark is still of folowing this after closing off the bug. Regarding non-foss software. It might not be our ideal, but folk ought to be allowed to make a penny from their work if they so wish. The late versions of our software-centre reflect this. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 20:06:12 -0000 Message-Id: <1369944372.94469.YahooMailNeo@web28901.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) Have to disagree with the top man.=C2=A0 Ubuntu played a huge part.=C2=A0=20 Ubuntu got out there into the mainstream press over and over again.=C2=A0 N= ot as a quirky, insane, anarchistic, geek toy but as a serious business too= l with repeated successes in many companies around the globe.=C2=A0 Redhat = had already been doing some of that for years but Ubuntu took it and ran w= ith it straight onto the main stage.=C2=A0 No other distro managed that so = consistently.=C2=A0=20 Can Ubuntu be the 1st to achieve what so many others are aiming for and be = the 1st OS to successfully run on smart-phones, handhelds, tablets and wher= e it already succeeds?=C2=A0 Can Android reach the desktop or can Windows t= urn their dismally failing mobiles and slate/tablets into success before Ub= untu get there?=C2=A0 The race is on.=C2=A0=20 Regards from Tom :)=C2=A0=20 >________________________________ > From: Mark Shuttleworth <1@bugs.launchpad.net> >Sent: Thursday, 30 May 2013, 11:38 >=20 > > > >Even though we have only played a small part in that shift > > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 19:48:39 -0000 Message-Id: <1369943319.53676.YahooMailNeo@web28904.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) +1=20 to all that.=C2=A0 Except point 4.=C2=A0 I think it's precisely because of = the failures of others that our chances of success are increased 1.=C2=A0 the failures at least raise awareness of the fact there are differ= ent opinions 2.=C2=A0 It allows us to learn from the mistakes and try things a bit or a LOT differently Oh, and except point 1 also.=C2=A0 No-one is talking about giving up except the people saying "that is not an option" or words-to-that-effect.=C2=A0 Regards from=20 Tom :)=C2=A0=20 >________________________________ > From: Randall Ross >Sent: Thursday, 30 May 2013, 20:26 >Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Closing makes sense; but close status is wrong >=20 > >My thoughts: > >1) On perseverance: Giving up is not an option. "Can't Fix" admits >defeat. > >2) On pragmatism: We might need to temporarily accept a binary blob (or >three) or even a proprietary service along the road to Freedomville. >When we do, we've introduced a bug to be fixed later. (It's a bit like >taking shortcuts in programming. Sometimes we do that to get the result >faster, knowing that there's debt to be repaid down the road.) > >3) On timeline: Ubuntu will outlive all of us. "Ubuntu is not just >software." When making plans we should consider a planning horizon of at >least 20 years. > >4) On history: Just because others have failed to implement a business >model that maintains independence from capital markets, and respects, >spreads and preserves freedom, we should not assume that is the 100% >probable case. History is not always a good predictor of the future and >swans are sometimes black. > >Cheers, >Randall. >Ubuntu Evangelists Team. > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Manjul Apratim (manzdagratiano) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 20:29:36 -0000 Message-Id: @Barry For the record, FOSS does not imply software that is "free" as in beer. The protagonists of free software - the folks at GNU - openly state on www.gnu.org that it is perfectly acceptable to sell software "free" as in "freedom" for money. Hi :) Have to disagree with the top man. Ubuntu played a huge part. Ubuntu got out there into the mainstream press over and over again. Not as a quirky, insane, anarchistic, geek toy but as a serious business tool with repeated successes in many companies around the globe. Redhat had already been doing some of that for years but Ubuntu took it and ran with it straight onto the main stage. No other distro managed that so consistently. Can Ubuntu be the 1st to achieve what so many others are aiming for and be the 1st OS to successfully run on smart-phones, handhelds, tablets and where it already succeeds? Can Android reach the desktop or can Windows turn their dismally failing mobiles and slate/tablets into success before Ubuntu get there? The race is on. Regards from Tom :) >________________________________ > From: Mark Shuttleworth <1@bugs.launchpad.net> >Sent: Thursday, 30 May 2013, 11:38 > > > > >Even though we have only played a small part in that shift > > > -- You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug report. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 Title: Microsoft has a majority market share Status in Club Distro: Confirmed Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: New Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: Invalid Status in dylan.NET: Invalid Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid Status in LibreOffice: In Progress Status in The Linux Kernel: New Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: In Progress Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress Status in Neobot: New Status in Novabot: New Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress Status in Tabuntu: Invalid Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid Status in Tv-Player: Invalid Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: In Progress Status in Ubuntu: Fix Released Status in Arch Linux: Confirmed Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed Status in openSUSE: In Progress Status in Tilix Linux: New Bug description: See Mark's closure comment here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834 ------ Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to all." "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software gives everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with whoever they like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the spectrum it enables the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective experience and expertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the other, we are able to give access to essential software for those who couldn=E2=80=99t otherwise afford it =E2=80=93 an advantage that=E2=80=99s keenly felt by in= dividuals and organisations all over the world." * http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and concentrates control over the technology which powers our society into the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic practices. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. Steps to repeat: 1. Visit a local PC store. 2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software. What happens: Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre- installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operating system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be proprietary. What should happen: A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. * http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html * http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines * http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 22:00:43 -0000 Message-Id: Sorry Mark, but as many above I also cannot consider this bug being fixed. Only last week I wanted to buy a new Canonical certified hardware from Dell - they definitely do not want to sell a non-Windows PC to me. Best offer I could get (after insisting) is at about 1 third more expensive. I never had such problems before with Dell and of course this is not the first time I want to buy a non-Windows PC. - Just to give an example. Similar issue at other places. On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Mark Shuttleworth <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Personal computing today is a broader proposition than it was in 2004: > phones, tablets, wearables and other devices are all part of the mix for > our digital lives. From a competitive perspective, that broader market > has healthy competition, with IOS and Android representing a meaningful > share Yes, but these new devices mostly cannot be considered to be a replacement for a desktop PC or laptop. Most people owning a tablet also own a PC. For productive work in most cases a laptop or PC is still the best choice. Tablets and Smartphones are still only a secondary device used for emailing and news-reading (or playing) in the very most cases. > It's worth noting that today, if you're into cloud computing, the > Microsoft IAAS team are both technically excellent and very focused on > having ALL OS's including Linux guests like Ubuntu run extremely well on > Azure, making them a pleasure to work with. At the server side Linux already won a long time ago, but not at client side and I always thought that Bug #1 focuses on the client. Best regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Pedro Galvan (pedrogk) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 22:05:30 -0000 Message-Id: <20130530220530.10501.86873.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Just this week, a corporate customer with whom I am starting a business rel= ationship sent me a ms word document with a form that I needed to fill in o= rder for them to register me as a supplier.=20 Needless to say, I had to use ms word to open it. I tried to do it in libreoffice but all the layout was messed up, and I didn't want to return my customer a messed up document. Also, the document had a field that was a digital signature, and libreoffice didn't recognize it properly. As many people do, I used to have a windows partition just for cases like this. However, a few months ago my HDD failed and I decided to replace it with a SSD. With space being much more limited on SSD, I decided there was no use in having Windows around anymore. So ... I had to send the documents to my wife and ask her to open them up in windows+office and fill them up. Fortunately, she is also an executive in the company and was legally allowed to digitally sign those papers. Otherwise, I would have had to install a digital signature certificate of myself, in somebody else's computer, and I wouldn't have liked that. I know that some will say that they would have told the customer to send the document in a non-proprietary format. Yeah, right. I would like to see you tell that to a new customer with an important deal. Probably others will also tell me that there were ways to cimcurvent this and still do it from Linux by using certain programs/commands/hacks. That doesn't matter, because even if I were able to do it, your average user wouldn't. So, if you only care about the consumer+mobile world, then probably we could say this bug is fixed. But if you care about professionals, who mainly use personal computers for work, this bug is far from being fixed. Don't get me wrong. I agree that there has been an advance in some areas and I cheer for that. But that is no reason to give a blind eye to the areas where we haven't advanced. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 05:42:33 -0000 Message-Id: <1369978953.5909.YahooMailNeo@web28903.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :)=C2=A0 It's probably better to tell them further down the road.=C2=A0 Once you have become a bit friendlier with each other and they know 1st hand that you are excellent and provide good quality services.=C2=A0 It might surprise them how much extra effort you had to and were willing to= put in to secure the relationship.=C2=A0 It might embarrass them to know t= hat Word formats are increasingly tough for people now that Windows is not = number 1 and that their form causes people such problems.=C2=A0 Are they st= arting to lose business by sticking to such temperamental formats? MS Office 2007, 2010, 2013 and 365 can "Save As ..." "OpenDocument Format" = (.odt for 'text' (really documents done by word-processor NOT text-files)).= =C2=A0 That's 6 years and 4 versions.=C2=A0 2007 and 2010 cunningly used th= e outdated Odf version 1.1 but that's only a problem for spreadsheets.=C2= =A0 2013 and 365 use Odf version 1.2 same as everyone else has been using f= or over 7 years.=C2=A0=20 Odf is becoming much more widely used because it means documents will be ab= le to be read long after MS's formats have changed so much that old documen= ts are unreadable.=C2=A0 Entire countries and large organisations are switc= hing to it.=C2=A0 The French police force over a year ago, hospitals in Cop= enhagen about a year ago, all government desktops in one of the 'States' of= Spain (40,000 machines) added to 70,000 machines in schools which switched= a few years ago, all of Brasil for many years now.=C2=A0 Errr, those are j= ust a few that caught my eye.=C2=A0=20 It's probably still better to use the older Word formats (.Doc) (fomr MS Of= fice 2000, Xp, 2003) rather than their newer ooxml .DocX format even if the= y want to restrict their business to other MS Office users because the DocX= implementation changes with every release.=C2=A0 In fact we often find tha= t it's the LibreOffice user that has to act as "go between" in offices when= 2 people have trouble sharing documents with each other.=C2=A0 The DocXs p= roduced by LibreOffice are the only ones that can be read by all different = versions of MS Office!!=C2=A0=20 So, it is tough at the moment but things are moving your way and beginning = to move quite a lot more quickly.=C2=A0 Are businesses going to be ready?= =C2=A0 Your new corporate customer's isn't.=C2=A0 Yours is.=C2=A0=20 Regards from=20 Tom :)=C2=A0=20 >________________________________ > From: Pedro Galvan <> >Sent: Thursday, 30 May 2013, 23:05 >Subject: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > >Just this week, a corporate customer with whom I am starting a business re= lationship sent me a ms word document with a form that I needed to fill in = order for them to register me as a supplier.=20 > >Needless to say, I had to use ms word to open it. > > > >I know that some will say that they would have told the customer to send >the document in a non-proprietary format. Yeah, right. I would like to >see you tell that to a new customer with an important deal. > > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 05:53:28 -0000 Message-Id: <1369979608.22763.YahooMailNeo@web28901.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) This is true but all eyes are on the portable devices.=C2=A0 It will be a f= ew years before people realise that they really do need a proper desktop.= =C2=A0=20 The problem is that desktops are seen as slow monstrosities.=C2=A0 Sure they are fast when you first get them but they soon suffer slowdowns and multiple problems.=C2=A0 People see portable devices being faster and stayi= ng fast.=C2=A0 They just don't make the connection that it's the OS not the machine.=C2=A0 Windows successfully killed off the 1st wave of smaller, lighter machines (netbooks) by insisting on the Windows versions being sold in shops and blocking the ones with OSes made for the form factor.=C2=A0 Everyone i know of that still has the original OSes or replaced them or the Windows with Ubuntu still loves their machines all these years later.=C2=A0 Everyone that stuck with Windows on them thinks they are retarded, even though the specs are probably higher than the tablets they love. So the question is will people remember only how slow desktops quickly became or will they wonder if the 'new' OSes such as Android or Ubuntu can work on the desktops too.=C2=A0 Regards from=20 Tom :)=C2=A0=20 >________________________________ > From: Martin Wildam <1@bugs.launchpad.net> >To: TomDavies04@Yahoo.Co.Uk=20 >Sent: Thursday, 30 May 2013, 23:00 >Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > >Sorry Mark, but as many above I also cannot consider this bug being >fixed. Only last week I wanted to buy a new Canonical certified >hardware from Dell - they definitely do not want to sell a non-Windows >PC to me. Best offer I could get (after insisting) is at about 1 third >more expensive. I never had such problems before with Dell and of >course this is not the first time I want to buy a non-Windows PC. - >Just to give an example. Similar issue at other places. > >On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Mark Shuttleworth ><1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: >> Personal computing today is a broader proposition than it was in 2004: >> phones, tablets, wearables and other devices are all part of the mix for >> our digital lives. From a competitive perspective, that broader market >> has healthy competition, with IOS and Android representing a meaningful >> share > >Yes, but these new devices mostly cannot be considered to be a >replacement for a desktop PC or laptop. Most people owning a tablet >also own a PC. For productive work in most cases a laptop or PC is >still the best choice. Tablets and Smartphones are still only a >secondary device used for emailing and news-reading (or playing) in >the very most cases. > > >> It's worth noting that today, if you're into cloud computing, the >> Microsoft IAAS team are both technically excellent and very focused on >> having ALL OS's including Linux guests like Ubuntu run extremely well on >> Azure, making them a pleasure to work with. > >At the server side Linux already won a long time ago, but not at >client side and I always thought that Bug #1 focuses on the client. > >Best regards, Martin. > >--=20 >You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug >report. >https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > >Title: >=C2=A0 Microsoft has a majority market share > >Status in Club Distro: >=C2=A0 Confirmed >Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: >=C2=A0 Confirmed >Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: >=C2=A0 New >Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: >=C2=A0 Invalid >Status in dylan.NET: >=C2=A0 Invalid >Status in EasyPeasy Overview: >=C2=A0 Invalid >Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: >=C2=A0 Invalid >Status in JAK LINUX: >=C2=A0 Invalid >Status in LibreOffice: >=C2=A0 In Progress >Status in The Linux Kernel: >=C2=A0 New >Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: >=C2=A0 In Progress >Status in The Linux OS Project: >=C2=A0 In Progress >Status in Neobot: >=C2=A0 New >Status in Novabot: >=C2=A0 New >Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: >=C2=A0 In Progress >Status in Tabuntu: >=C2=A0 Invalid >Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: >=C2=A0 Invalid >Status in Tv-Player: >=C2=A0 Invalid >Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: >=C2=A0 In Progress >Status in Ubuntu: >=C2=A0 Fix Released >Status in Arch Linux: >=C2=A0 Confirmed >Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: >=C2=A0 Invalid >Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: >=C2=A0 In Progress >Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: >=C2=A0 Confirmed >Status in openSUSE: >=C2=A0 In Progress >Status in Tilix Linux: >=C2=A0 New > >Bug description: >=C2=A0 See Mark's closure comment here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/= +bug/1/comments/1834 >=C2=A0 ------ > >=C2=A0 Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC >=C2=A0 marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant >=C2=A0 to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is >=C2=A0 driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to >=C2=A0 all." > >=C2=A0 "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software= gives everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with whoe= ver they like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the spectrum i= t enables the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective experience = and expertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the other, we ar= e able to give access to essential software for those who couldn=E2=80=99t = otherwise afford it =E2=80=93 an advantage that=E2=80=99s keenly felt by in= dividuals and organisations all over the world." >=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0* http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about= -ubuntu/our-philosophy > >=C2=A0 Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner a= nd >=C2=A0 concentrates control over the technology which powers our society i= nto >=C2=A0 the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles >=C2=A0 innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious >=C2=A0 anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic >=C2=A0 practices. > >=C2=A0 This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > >=C2=A0 Steps to repeat: > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A01. Visit a local PC store. >=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A02. Attempt to buy a machine without any pro= prietary software. > >=C2=A0 What happens: > >=C2=A0 Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pr= e- >=C2=A0 installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operat= ing >=C2=A0 system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be >=C2=A0 proprietary. > >=C2=A0 What should happen: > >=C2=A0 A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0* http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-= sw.html >=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0* http://www.debian.org/social_contra= ct#guidelines >=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0* http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd > >To manage notifications about this bug go to: >https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?TGFkaXNsYXYgVXJvxaFldmnEhyAodXJvc2xkcCk=?= Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 15:14:05 -0000 Message-Id: <20130531151405.27764.79566.malone@gac.canonical.com> Next thing to be changed is Ubuntu promise --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Damon Hartman (area51pilot) Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 15:17:29 -0000 Message-Id: <20130531151731.10893.7383.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Bravo Zulu! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: William Smith (wrsmith-y) Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2013 09:41:04 -0000 Message-Id: <20130601094104.27764.25797.malone@gac.canonical.com> Getting the refund back for an unused Windows license on purchased computer with Windows preinstalled can be difficult or impossible. Toshiba Finland, for example, doesn't even bother to answer enquiries of this sort. Nowadays, you *can* find laptops preloaded with Ubuntu from Amazon. The last 3 I have bought have come with Ubuntu preinstalled. (all Asus brand) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Shashank VRSN Sabniveesu (fossterer) Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2013 11:42:55 -0000 Message-Id: <20130601114255.27234.43185.malone@gac.canonical.com> Dear Mr Shuttleworth, I'm happy to see that this bug is fixed but you could have attached the correct patch (read as 'valid proof'). Humbly, the figure above doesn't reflect the global perspective of adoption of FOSS in desktop market. Android/Chrome OS on desktops .. here in India? No way. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: northrup (northrupthebandgeek) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2013 18:44:18 -0000 Message-Id: <20130606184418.21385.8610.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> This bug is not fixed. Based on the outlined steps to repeat: 1. Visit a local PC store. 2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software. At least in the Reno, NV area, the results of the "steps to repeat" involve relatively-nonexistent availability of free-and-open-source purchasing options; nearly all PCs sold here are preinstalled with either Windows or (in the case of those originally manufactured by Apple, Inc.) Mac OS X. Some PCs can be purchased without operating systems if from a small vendor, but in those cases it's reliant upon me having technical experience and making it clear that I am capable of installing software myself; larger vendors do not offer this ability. Perhaps this is different in other areas (if it is, further clarification - as well as real estate listings and job offerings to assist with me packing my bags and moving - would be appreciated). While PC manufacturers are beginning to make their Linux offerings more apparent (namely, Dell, in addition to Linux-only vendors like System76), this is far from the mainstream, and PC users without technical experience/capability will likely be stuck with a non-free operating system preinstalled. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2013 21:22:55 -0000 Message-Id: Not only visiting a shop you still mostly see Windows on the PCs, it took me a lot of discussion and cost me about 200 bucks more than expected to get a new PC from Dell (today) with Ubuntu preinstalled. First time, Dell made troubles selling me a Windows-less PC, so for my experience here in Austria things seem even to get worse. But the positive point: Comparing to the words of Gandhi we are in the phase where they fight you. Best regards. -- Martin Wildam Am 06.06.2013 20:51 schrieb "northrup" <1@bugs.launchpad.net>: > This bug is not fixed. Based on the outlined steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > 2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software. > > At least in the Reno, NV area, the results of the "steps to repeat" > involve relatively-nonexistent availability of free-and-open-source > purchasing options; nearly all PCs sold here are preinstalled with > either Windows or (in the case of those originally manufactured by > Apple, Inc.) Mac OS X. Some PCs can be purchased without operating > systems if from a small vendor, but in those cases it's reliant upon me > having technical experience and making it clear that I am capable of > installing software myself; larger vendors do not offer this ability. > Perhaps this is different in other areas (if it is, further > clarification - as well as real estate listings and job offerings to > assist with me packing my bags and moving - would be appreciated). > > While PC manufacturers are beginning to make their Linux offerings more > apparent (namely, Dell, in addition to Linux-only vendors like > System76), this is far from the mainstream, and PC users without > technical experience/capability will likely be stuck with a non-free > operating system preinstalled. > > -- > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share > > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: > New > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in The Linux Kernel: > New > Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in Neobot: > New > Status in Novabot: > New > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > Invalid > Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu: > Fix Released > Status in Arch Linux: > Confirmed > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New > > Bug description: > See Mark's closure comment here: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834 > ------ > > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC > marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant > to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is > driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to > all." > > "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software > gives everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with > whoever they like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the > spectrum it enables the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective > experience and expertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the > other, we are able to give access to essential software for those who > couldn=E2=80=99t otherwise afford it =E2=80=93 an advantage that=E2=80=99= s keenly felt by > individuals and organisations all over the world." > * http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy > > Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and > concentrates control over the technology which powers our society into > the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles > innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious > anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic > practices. > > This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > 2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software. > > What happens: > > Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre- > installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operating > system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be > proprietary. > > What should happen: > > A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. > > * http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html > * http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines > * http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd > > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: nameremoved (errorwhywhywhy-deactivatedaccount) Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 07:48:39 -0000 Message-Id: I firmly believe that this bug is no where near being fixed! Things that need to be fixed: 1. Quite a few of the OEM's still don't support Linux, and whenever=20 drivers are asked for (I'm talking about items that aren't supported=20 correctly by the kernel, such as my particular GPU.) they try to get you=20 to use windows. I know this through experience! Now if bug 1 was truly=20 fixed then I should have had no problem at all getting what I needed, or=20 not to have needed to get the drivers in the first place. 2. This has already been mentioned a lot but the retail stores dislike=20 selling anything other than windows pre-installed. 3. I've already mentioned this before but, we really need some=20 advertising of some sort. I only know two people other than myself in my=20 town that use Linux. Advertising/Public awareness could change that. I agree with PJO about the closure statement, It definitely sounded a=20 bit odd. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 08:57:22 -0000 Message-Id: <1370595442.88594.YahooMailNeo@web28903.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) Wow, i find it amazing that you don't see more people using mobile or hand-= held devices in your town!=C2=A0 Also amazing that you can't buy any hand-h= eld or mobile devices anywhere.=C2=A0=20 Such devices have already pretty much taken over here in the Uk.=C2=A0=20 However i do agree that this bug is not really fixed.=C2=A0 Quite the contr= ary!=C2=A0=20 Now is the time to really start working at it!=C2=A0 Now that mobile device= s and hand-helds have become so common-place it should be easier to go into= stores and demand peripherals (such as printers, wireless routers etc) tha= t are Gnu&Linux friendly.=C2=A0 Demands such as "I need a printer for work = but need to know that i will be able to print from my Android.=C2=A0 So, is= this printer Gnu&Linux friendly?"=C2=A0 or "I need a wireless router so th= at my Android can access my home/work network.=C2=A0 Does this router have = drivers for Gnu&Linux?" This demand needs to reach the OEMs.=C2=A0 Stores need to know that they ha= ve got to start supporting Gnu&Linux =3D that there is demand for it and th= at the demand is growing.=C2=A0=20 Regards from=20 Tom :)=C2=A0=20 >________________________________ > From: Martyn Vallett <1@bugs.launchpad.net> >To: TomDavies04@Yahoo.Co.Uk=20 >Sent: Friday, 7 June 2013, 8:48 >Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > >I firmly believe that this bug is no where near being fixed! > >Things that need to be fixed: > >1. Quite a few of the OEM's still don't support Linux, and whenever=20 >drivers are asked for (I'm talking about items that aren't supported=20 >correctly by the kernel, such as my particular GPU.) they try to get you=20 >to use windows. I know this through experience! Now if bug 1 was truly=20 >fixed then I should have had no problem at all getting what I needed, or=20 >not to have needed to get the drivers in the first place. > >2. This has already been mentioned a lot but the retail stores dislike=20 >selling anything other than windows pre-installed. > >3. I've already mentioned this before but, we really need some=20 >advertising of some sort. I only know two people other than myself in my=20 >town that use Linux. Advertising/Public awareness could change that. > >I agree with PJO about the closure statement, It definitely sounded a=20 >bit odd. > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 10:15:15 -0000 Message-Id: Hi, On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Wow, i find it amazing that you don't see more people using mobile or han= d-held devices in your town! > Also amazing that you can't buy any hand-held or mobile devices anywhere. > Such devices have already pretty much taken over here in the Uk. Of course mobile devices are all around also here in Austria, but: Mobile devices are an addon - they help on the go and they are good for consuming IT content, but they are bad when it comes to "production" like Programming, Document Writing, Foto Editing, Desktop Publishing, Design, CAD, ... This is why I do give nothing on those news headliner telling that the PC era is over. Of course: A lot of people do use a computer (approx guess) 80 % internet surving or watching video, 10 % email reading and 10 % email writing. - Those are perfectly service with a large enough tablet. Anyway I do not know any tablet or smartphone user not having also a laptop or PC at home. BTW: I consider PC and laptop as both being relevant for this bug #1. > However i do agree that this bug is not really fixed. Quite the contrary! Yes, indeed! > Now is the time to really start working at it! Now that mobile devices a= nd hand-helds have become so common-place it > should be easier to go into stores and demand peripherals (such as printe= rs, wireless routers etc) that are Gnu&Linux > friendly. Demands such as "I need a printer for work but need to know th= at i will be able to print from my Android. This is an uncommon use case. What I see always: Documents are sent by email to somebody who has the desired printer on his laptop or PC already configured in the list of available printers. At least 2 times a week I am at customers and I would never go to connect to a wild number of printers and after changing to the next phone model have to do it again anyway. I already reduce the list of configured W-LAN entries in my phone. Even if it would be just 2 clicks or touches away - I first would have to ask some person at customer side to what printer I should send the document xy, would maybe need to configure page size, make sure enough paper is in the trays and so on. Apart from the fact that on many network printers you first need to login anyway and have to be within the customers real network and not only in the guest W-LAN. > So, is this printer Gnu&Linux friendly?" This of course is an issue sometimes, but I experience less problems to get a Linux compatible printer than a Linux compatible laptop/PC. > or "I need a wireless router so that my Android can access my home/work = network. > Does this router have drivers for Gnu&Linux?" I never heard of drivers I need on my client to support particular routers. Routers are running their own operating system inside and most of them alreasy run a flavour of Linux ASFAIK. I do consider routers - as servers - already to be taken over by Linux. Best regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 11:50:18 -0000 Message-Id: <1370605818.25920.YahooMailNeo@web28906.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi :) I usually find one of the main blockers to Ubuntu migrations is trying to g= et wireless connections to work.=C2=A0 They should work because yes, both s= ides are running Gnu&Linux but somehow it's only the Windows laptops that c= an connect, not the Ubuntu ones (or the Ubuntu side of the dual-boot).=C2= =A0=20 We are now in a position to demand that wireless connections do work with G= nu&Linux.=C2=A0 No more of this Cd with only Windows drivers.=C2=A0 We need= wireless devices that give us the equivalents for Mac and for Gnu&Linux.= =C2=A0=20 People and the mainstream media (even the tech press) are years away from realising that desktops are a vital part of the eco-system.=C2=A0 At t= he moment they are still wowed by the tiny machines being faster and doing more than their crumbling ancient Windows-'driven' desktops.=C2=A0 Eventual= ly they might realise they still need desktops but maybe ones that don't rely on Windows.=C2=A0 Lets capitalise on the brief moment we have to push mobile devices and their capabilities.=C2=A0 Most office workers work in only 2 or 3 locations;=C2=A0 home, work and may= be "in-transit between the 2".=C2=A0 It's fairly rare to have multiple work locations.=C2=A0 About half the people at my main work-place bring in their Androids, iPad/iPhones with no thought or expectation of being able to use them productively.=C2=A0 To be fair even desktop users tend to email documents to each other in order to get them onto the machine that can print.=C2=A0 They don't seem to understand that they can save to the network and them reach from any machine and they don't seem to realise that all machine can print.=C2=A0 However, why not print directly from their Android's?=C2=A0 Maybe only to 1= or 2 of the printers at work or the 1 at home (depending on where they are= ).=C2=A0=20 We have only a couple of years to push this type of work-flow before everyone starts to return to their desktops but right now we have an opportunity to really push for peripherals that are compatible.=C2=A0 Btw i have huge troubles trying to get a proper office photocopier to work.=C2=A0 We have a large Ricoh with a multi-sheet feeder on top, supposedly able to staple as well as collate.=C2=A0 It's so tall that it's made to stand on the floor and comes up to just over waist high on me although it's more like chest high to a lot of the ladies.=C2=A0 We also ha= ve an A3 colour printer that we normally use to print A4 in colour.=C2=A0 I can't get the Oki C810 nor the Ricoh to work at all under Gnu&Linux.=C2=A0 The tiny hewlett packard printers worked "straight off the bat" with 0 effort.=C2=A0 Regards from=20 Tom :)=C2=A0 >________________________________ > From: Martin Wildam <1@bugs.launchpad.net> >To: TomDavies04@Yahoo.Co.Uk=20 >Sent: Friday, 7 June 2013, 11:15 >Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > >Hi, > >On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: >> Wow, i find it amazing that you don't see more people using mobile or ha= nd-held devices in your town! >> Also amazing that you can't buy any hand-held or mobile devices anywhere. >> Such devices have already pretty much taken over here in the Uk. > >Of course mobile devices are all around also here in Austria, but: >Mobile devices are an addon - they help on the go and they are good for co= nsuming IT content, but they are bad when it comes to "production" like Pro= gramming, Document Writing, Foto Editing, Desktop Publishing, Design, CAD, = ... > >This is why I do give nothing on those news headliner telling that the PC = era is over.=C2=A0 Of course: A lot of people do use a computer (approx gue= ss) 80 % >internet surving or watching video, 10 % email reading and 10 % email writ= ing. - Those are perfectly service with a large enough tablet.=C2=A0 Anyway= I do not know any tablet or smartphone user not having also a laptop or PC= at home. > >BTW: I consider PC and laptop as both being relevant for this bug #1. > > >> However i do agree that this bug is not really fixed.=C2=A0 Quite the co= ntrary! > >Yes, indeed! > > >> Now is the time to really start working at it!=C2=A0 Now that mobile dev= ices and hand-helds have become so common-place it >> should be easier to go into stores and demand peripherals (such as print= ers, wireless routers etc) that are Gnu&Linux >> friendly.=C2=A0 Demands such as "I need a printer for work but need to k= now that i will be able to print from my Android. > >This is an uncommon use case. What I see always: Documents are sent by ema= il to somebody who has the desired printer on his laptop or PC already conf= igured in the list of available printers. At least 2 times a week I am at c= ustomers and I would never go to connect to a wild number of printers and a= fter changing to the next phone model have to do it again anyway. I already= reduce the list of configured W-LAN entries in my phone. Even if it would = be just 2 clicks or touches away - I first would have to ask some person at= customer side to what printer I should send the document xy, would maybe n= eed to configure page size, make sure enough paper is in the trays and so o= n. Apart from the fact that on many network printers you first need to logi= n anyway and have to be within the customers real network and not only in t= he guest W-LAN. > >>=C2=A0 So, is this printer Gnu&Linux friendly?" > >This of course is an issue sometimes, but I experience less problems to ge= t a Linux compatible printer than a Linux compatible laptop/PC. > > >>=C2=A0 or "I need a wireless router so that my Android can access my home= /work network. >> Does this router have drivers for Gnu&Linux?" > >I never heard of drivers I need on my client to support particular routers= . Routers are running their own operating system inside and most of them al= reasy run a flavour of Linux ASFAIK. I do consider routers - as servers - a= lready to be taken over by Linux. > >Best regards, Martin. > > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Ramchandra Apte (ramchandra.apte) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 03:16:59 -0000 Message-Id: Agree strongly. On 7 June 2013 15:45, Martin Wildam <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Hi, > > On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > > Wow, i find it amazing that you don't see more people using mobile or > hand-held devices in your town! > > Also amazing that you can't buy any hand-held or mobile devices anywher= e. > > Such devices have already pretty much taken over here in the Uk. > > Of course mobile devices are all around also here in Austria, but: > Mobile devices are an addon - they help on the go and they are good > for consuming IT content, but they are bad when it comes to > "production" like Programming, Document Writing, Foto Editing, Desktop > Publishing, Design, CAD, ... > > This is why I do give nothing on those news headliner telling that the > PC era is over. > Of course: A lot of people do use a computer (approx guess) 80 % > internet surving or watching video, 10 % email reading and 10 % email > writing. - Those are perfectly service with a large enough tablet. > Anyway I do not know any tablet or smartphone user not having also a > laptop or PC at home. > > BTW: I consider PC and laptop as both being relevant for this bug #1. > > [snip] > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2013 04:23:37 -0000 Message-Id: <20130703042337.15038.44248.malone@gac.canonical.com> Hi :) How can you change the summary? =20 It's a bit rude too. I do realise you have a single agenda to push but it = would be better to start a new bug-report rather than change an existing on= e. People's replies now make no sense because they were replying to the or= iginal bug-report as originally reported. It is not possible to go back an= d edit everyone's replies to make them relevant to your new summary and to = do so would be a travesty anyway. This is a historic bug-report that has b= een widely reported in the media and surely deserves to be treated with som= e respect especially if you ex hope to be treated with respect too. Please= change it back. Regards from=20 Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2013 07:38:48 -0000 Message-Id: <20130703073848.20958.18826.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> Hi :) Thanks YannUbuntu! :)) I accidentally read some early comments in this thread. I really liked 113= 's code! :) If we could have something like that on LiveCds as part of Cla= mAv's check or something! :)) Regards from=20 Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: efa (efa) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 19:59:00 -0000 Message-Id: <20130820195900.30891.33393.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> we miss old "Ubuntu Manifesto" speaking about =E2=80=98free of charge=E2=80= =99 and we feel be betrayed by the "portfolio of services provided by Canonical" of current policies --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: nameremoved (errorwhywhywhy-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2013 06:09:33 -0000 Message-Id: <20130907060933.25780.69114.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> It looks like in the latest ubuntu pre-release, all us users have been ignored in favour of more spyware and adware, which leaks info to the british an US governments, through all those useless lens addon that connect to all those websites. I suspect that this spyware will become a dependency and later merged into other programs. (I noticed that all ubuntu specific programs are all dependancies of each other despite not needing the others to run in most cases.) I also am one of the many people that have dumped ubuntu in favour of other distros because of this. I am hoping that canonical removes the spyware by 14.04, but I doubt they will considering they are a company and most companies don't give a stuff bout the users. In a nutshell: Ubuntu gives GNU/Linux a bad name and Canonical is now as ba= d is Apple and Microsoft. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Gianfranco Costamagna (costamagnagianfranco) Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2013 06:30:10 -0000 Message-Id: <20130907063010.23608.18472.malone@gac.canonical.com> "(I noticed that all ubuntu specific programs are all dependancies of each other despite not needing the others to run in most cases.)" could you please give examples? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: nameremoved (errorwhywhywhy-deactivatedaccount) Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2013 11:45:28 -0000 Message-Id: I don't remember which it was exactly, it would have probably been unity. Anyway, the program needed the location tracker, but didn't want such filth on my system, and I eventually was able to satisify the dependancy of the program that required the location tracker by compiling the whole thing into a deb, with its data files blank. And ubuntu ran with no problem with the modification. The next oddity is the greeter, I don't see why that would need the whole desktop enviroment. Does gdm or kdm need their entire corrosponding emviroment, no. Both of which can run on Lubuntu, and kdm can even be shipped on a custom remastersys style livecd with no issues. Therefore there is no valid reason for ubuntu's greeter to require all of ubuntu. All this is, is locking users into what cononical wants, just like Apple and Microsoft with their OSes. As far as I'm concerned, Ubuntu is only riding on it's former glory, as it is quite likelly that if a distro now came out with as much spyware as ubuntu, they would be rejected instantly. Canonical has lost my trust completly, to the point that I don't want to use ubuntu again. --- Original Message --- From: "LocutusOfBorg" Sent: September 7, 2013 4:36 PM To: rodneyrules2008@hotmail.com Subject: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share "(I noticed that all ubuntu specific programs are all dependancies of each other despite not needing the others to run in most cases.)" could you please give examples? -- You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug report. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 Title: Microsoft has a majority market share Status in Club Distro: Confirmed Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: New Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: Invalid Status in dylan.NET: Invalid Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid Status in LibreOffice: In Progress Status in The Linux Kernel: New Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: In Progress Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress Status in Neobot: New Status in Novabot: New Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress Status in Tabuntu: Invalid Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid Status in Tv-Player: Invalid Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: In Progress Status in Ubuntu: Fix Released Status in Arch Linux: Confirmed Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: In Progress Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed Status in openSUSE: In Progress Status in Tilix Linux: New Bug description: See Mark's closure comment here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1= /comments/1834 ------ Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to all." "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software gives= everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with whoever th= ey like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the spectrum it enab= les the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective experience and ex= pertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the other, we are able= to give access to essential software for those who couldn=E2=80=99t otherw= ise afford it =E2=80=93 an advantage that=E2=80=99s keenly felt by individu= als and organisations all over the world." * http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and concentrates control over the technology which powers our society into the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic practices. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. Steps to repeat: 1. Visit a local PC store. 2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software. What happens: Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre- installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operating system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be proprietary. What should happen: A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. * http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html * http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines * http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Gadmer-Tv (mesut-b) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 10:13:19 -0000 Message-Id: bu ne > Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2013 19:12:25 +0000 > From: 1@bugs.launchpad.net > To: mesut_b@hotmail.com > Subject: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > ** Package changed: linux (Fedora) =3D> fedora >=20 > ** Changed in: fedora > Status: New =3D> Confirmed >=20 > --=20 > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to Tivion. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >=20 > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: > New > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in The Linux Kernel: > New > Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in Neobot: > New > Status in Novabot: > New > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > Invalid > Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu: > Fix Released > Status in Arch Linux: > Confirmed > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fedora: > Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New >=20 > Bug description: > See Mark's closure comment here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug= /1/comments/1834 > ------ >=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC > marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant > to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is > driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to > all." >=20 > "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software giv= es everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with whoever = they like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the spectrum it en= ables the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective experience and = expertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the other, we are ab= le to give access to essential software for those who couldn=E2=80=99t othe= rwise afford it =E2=80=93 an advantage that=E2=80=99s keenly felt by indivi= duals and organisations all over the world." > * http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy >=20 > Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and > concentrates control over the technology which powers our society into > the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles > innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious > anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic > practices. >=20 > This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >=20 > Steps to repeat: >=20 > 1. Visit a local PC store. > 2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software. >=20 > What happens: >=20 > Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre- > installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operating > system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be > proprietary. >=20 > What should happen: >=20 > A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. >=20 > * http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html > * http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines > * http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd >=20 > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: simon65 (simon-65) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 18:22:59 -0000 Message-Id: <20131021182302.11907.47828.malone@soybean.canonical.com> no --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 23:49:06 -0000 Message-Id: I think this bug should be forked into two because regarding PC/Laptops the bug is IMHO definitely not fixed. Why there should be a difference? - Well, although most people I know do have a smartphone (or two - a private one and a business phone) and maybe also have a tablet, ALL OF THEM do their main computer work with a PC or laptop. You cannot assume that most of the serious computer work is done from an Android phone or tablet. And IMHO that won't be the case for the next years. > This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > 2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software. > > What happens: > > Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre- > installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operating > system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be > proprietary. > > What should happen: > > A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. > Best regards, Martin. --=20 Martin Wildam --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mahara Bot (dev-mahara) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2014 05:50:20 -0000 Message-Id: <20140808055020.87F7B2997E@hudrit.servers.catalyst.net.nz> Patch for "master" branch: https://reviews.mahara.org/3624 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?q?P=C3=A1ll_Haraldsson_=28pall-haraldsson=29?= Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 12:13:12 -0000 Message-Id: <20141023121312.2736.90538.malone@gac.canonical.com> Shuttleworth may have closed this bug prematurely (haven't followed all comments..) based on iOS plus Android having majority over Windows. Anyway not important now as Android alone seems bigger than Windows now (including iOS and OS X etc - all others). @mwildam: "although most people I know do have a smartphone (or two - a private one and a business phone) and maybe also have a tablet, ALL OF THEM do their main computer work with a PC or laptop. You cannot assume that most of the serious computer work is done from an Android phone or tablet." Why is that? And not sure it's true for all. For the global perspective most people probably do not have a PC while they may have a smartphone. You could say they only surf the web.. Programming for Android is even somewhat possible within the OS. Keyboard (and mouse) can be connected. QT works for Android and I wander how difficult it is to port most Linux programs to Android. My post on Ubuntu Touch to the mailing-list being a dead-end and Android compatibility being essentioal didn't make it there.. In 2013, Android-based devices outsold Windows' 2.8:1 (2:1 in mature markets) or by 573 million units (estimating the gap to widen much in 2014 and 2015). In India and other countries Android is the most popular operating system including for browsing the web; according to Statcounter; "Mobile usage has already overtaken desktop in several countries including India, South Africa and Saudi Arabia"[226] with several countries in Africa having done so already, including Ethiopia and Kenia (there mobile is 72.23%) See also: http://www.thedrum.com/news/2014/10/22/twitter-ceo-costolo- launches-free-mobile-development-kit-fabric-unite-developers-and --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 15:02:07 -0000 Message-Id: Hi On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 2:13 PM, P=C3=A1ll Haraldsson wrote: > @mwildam: "[...] ALL OF THEM > do their main computer work with a PC or laptop. You cannot assume > that most of the serious computer work is done from an Android phone or > tablet." > > Why is that? And not sure it's true for all. Because Computer work is not only web surfing and email. Imagine a photographer, technical designer, architect, lawyers, ..., and pretty everyone working in IT - just to give a few examples. Imagine all the people working with branch specific software - e.g. dental technician. - I cannot imagine any of those working on a smartphone or tablet only. > For the global perspective most people probably do not have a PC while > they may have a smartphone. You could say they only surf the web.. Of course - somebody cleaning toilets all day long (and this example is not because I do not appreciate the work of those!) does not need a high sophisticated operating system and neither does a waitress! But do you want to build an OS that an IT guy and lawyer likes to use or do you want to build one that is likes by a waitress? - Both should be satisfied, but let's be honest: If you need to mail and surf the web only then it is pretty irrelevant which OS you use! > In India and other countries Android is the most popular operating > system including for browsing the web; according to Statcounter; "Mobile > usage has already overtaken desktop [...] That is no wonder - you should get also statistics about how many people are working in which branch and: I do a lot of web surfing on my way to work or to customers while traveling - reading (IT) news for example. But while programming or writing concept documents at/for/with customers nearly no web network traffic is produced. And guess what: Usability and software features are far more relevant to me in these situations! - So be aware that such statistics are partly useless if it comes to usage of an operating system. Please do _not_ reduce computer work to email, web surfing and chat! And I am still convinced that this bug 1 has been closed prematurely. Best regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 16:19:55 -0000 Message-Id: Hi :) +1 except the question is really out-dated now. There's really 3 forks of it; 1. desktop only =3D still not fixed 2. total devices used by weeus =3D done but debatable 3. handhelds =3D definitely done. Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 17:19:58 -0000 Message-Id: Actually no. This was always about desktop. Of course the fact that many usecases have an alternative that works on android or chrome have made things better. But I still can't use Photoshop or Cubase on Linux. Personally I don't think we have fully won before Microsoft starts supporting Linux with Office etc. Of course replacing vendor-locked applications with open source are optimal but so far we have only succeed with webbrowsers. If Google succeeds in moving everything into the browser thats a win against OS monopoly but we should remember that Chrome Store are NOT Open source. But Native Client and PPAPI is so building an alternate store is possible and moving offering software in more than one store are a lot easier than supporting different operating systems. > Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 16:19:55 +0000 > From: 1@bugs.launchpad.net > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Hi :) > +1 > except the question is really out-dated now. There's really 3 forks of > it; >=20 > 1. desktop only =3D still not fixed > 2. total devices used by weeus =3D done but debatable > 3. handhelds =3D definitely done. >=20 > Regards from > Tom :) >=20 > --=20 > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >=20 > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: > New > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in The Linux Kernel: > New > Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in Neobot: > New > Status in Novabot: > New > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > Invalid > Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu: > Fix Released > Status in Arch Linux: > Confirmed > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fedora: > Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New >=20 > Bug description: > See Mark's closure comment here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug= /1/comments/1834 > ------ >=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC > marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant > to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is > driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to > all." >=20 > "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software giv= es everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with whoever = they like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the spectrum it en= ables the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective experience and = expertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the other, we are ab= le to give access to essential software for those who couldn=E2=80=99t othe= rwise afford it =E2=80=93 an advantage that=E2=80=99s keenly felt by indivi= duals and organisations all over the world." > * http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy >=20 > Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and > concentrates control over the technology which powers our society into > the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles > innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious > anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic > practices. >=20 > This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >=20 > Steps to repeat: >=20 > 1. Visit a local PC store. > 2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software. >=20 > What happens: >=20 > Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre- > installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operating > system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be > proprietary. >=20 > What should happen: >=20 > A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. >=20 > * http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html > * http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines > * http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd >=20 > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Randall Ross (randall) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 17:29:16 -0000 Message-Id: <544A8C6C.1090008@executiv.es> Perhaps we should change the bug name to: "Microsoft has a majority market share on the Desktop" If need be, bugs can be opened for other form factors. On 10/24/2014 10:19 AM, Faldegast wrote: > Actually no. This was always about desktop. Of course the fact that many > usecases have an alternative that works on android or chrome have made > things better. But I still can't use Photoshop or Cubase on Linux. > > Personally I don't think we have fully won before Microsoft starts > supporting Linux with Office etc. Of course replacing vendor-locked > applications with open source are optimal but so far we have only > succeed with webbrowsers. > > If Google succeeds in moving everything into the browser thats a win > against OS monopoly but we should remember that Chrome Store are NOT > Open source. But Native Client and PPAPI is so building an alternate > store is possible and moving offering software in more than one store > are a lot easier than supporting different operating systems. > >> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 16:19:55 +0000 >> From: 1@bugs.launchpad.net >> To: faldegast@hotmail.com >> Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >> >> Hi :) >> +1 >> except the question is really out-dated now. There's really 3 forks of >> it; >> >> 1. desktop only =3D still not fixed >> 2. total devices used by weeus =3D done but debatable >> 3. handhelds =3D definitely done. >> >> Regards from >> Tom :) >> >> --=20 >> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug >> report. >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >> >> Title: >> Microsoft has a majority market share >> >> Status in Club Distro: >> Confirmed >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: >> Confirmed >> Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: >> New >> Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: >> Invalid >> Status in dylan.NET: >> Invalid >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: >> Invalid >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: >> Invalid >> Status in JAK LINUX: >> Invalid >> Status in LibreOffice: >> In Progress >> Status in The Linux Kernel: >> New >> Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: >> In Progress >> Status in The Linux OS Project: >> In Progress >> Status in Neobot: >> New >> Status in Novabot: >> New >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: >> In Progress >> Status in Tabuntu: >> Invalid >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: >> Invalid >> Status in Tv-Player: >> Invalid >> Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: >> In Progress >> Status in Ubuntu: >> Fix Released >> Status in Arch Linux: >> Confirmed >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: >> Invalid >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: >> In Progress >> Status in Fedora: >> Confirmed >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: >> Confirmed >> Status in openSUSE: >> In Progress >> Status in Tilix Linux: >> New >> >> Bug description: >> See Mark's closure comment here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bu= g/1/comments/1834 >> ------ >> >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC >> marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant >> to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is >> driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to >> all." >> >> "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software gi= ves everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with whoever= they like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the spectrum it e= nables the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective experience and= expertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the other, we are a= ble to give access to essential software for those who couldn=E2=80=99t oth= erwise afford it =E2=80=93 an advantage that=E2=80=99s keenly felt by indiv= iduals and organisations all over the world." >> * http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy >> >> Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and >> concentrates control over the technology which powers our society into >> the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles >> innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious >> anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic >> practices. >> >> This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >> >> Steps to repeat: >> >> 1. Visit a local PC store. >> 2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software. >> >> What happens: >> >> Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre- >> installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operating >> system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be >> proprietary. >> >> What should happen: >> >> A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. >> >> * http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html >> * http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines >> * http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd >> >> To manage notifications about this bug go to: >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Marcelo Atie (marceloatie) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 18:29:51 -0000 Message-Id: i think Bug #1 was closed, and "Microsoft has a majority market share on the Desktop" is another bug. 2014-10-24 15:29 GMT-02:00 Randall Ross : > Perhaps we should change the bug name to: > > "Microsoft has a majority market share on the Desktop" > > If need be, bugs can be opened for other form factors. > > > On 10/24/2014 10:19 AM, Faldegast wrote: > > Actually no. This was always about desktop. Of course the fact that many > > usecases have an alternative that works on android or chrome have made > > things better. But I still can't use Photoshop or Cubase on Linux. > > > > Personally I don't think we have fully won before Microsoft starts > > supporting Linux with Office etc. Of course replacing vendor-locked > > applications with open source are optimal but so far we have only > > succeed with webbrowsers. > > > > If Google succeeds in moving everything into the browser thats a win > > against OS monopoly but we should remember that Chrome Store are NOT > > Open source. But Native Client and PPAPI is so building an alternate > > store is possible and moving offering software in more than one store > > are a lot easier than supporting different operating systems. > > > >> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 16:19:55 +0000 > >> From: 1@bugs.launchpad.net > >> To: faldegast@hotmail.com > >> Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share > >> > >> Hi :) > >> +1 > >> except the question is really out-dated now. There's really 3 forks of > >> it; > >> > >> 1. desktop only =3D still not fixed > >> 2. total devices used by weeus =3D done but debatable > >> 3. handhelds =3D definitely done. > >> > >> Regards from > >> Tom :) > >> > >> -- > >> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the b= ug > >> report. > >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > >> > >> Title: > >> Microsoft has a majority market share > >> > >> Status in Club Distro: > >> Confirmed > >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > >> Confirmed > >> Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: > >> New > >> Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > >> Invalid > >> Status in dylan.NET: > >> Invalid > >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > >> Invalid > >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > >> Invalid > >> Status in JAK LINUX: > >> Invalid > >> Status in LibreOffice: > >> In Progress > >> Status in The Linux Kernel: > >> New > >> Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: > >> In Progress > >> Status in The Linux OS Project: > >> In Progress > >> Status in Neobot: > >> New > >> Status in Novabot: > >> New > >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > >> In Progress > >> Status in Tabuntu: > >> Invalid > >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > >> Invalid > >> Status in Tv-Player: > >> Invalid > >> Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: > >> In Progress > >> Status in Ubuntu: > >> Fix Released > >> Status in Arch Linux: > >> Confirmed > >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > >> Invalid > >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > >> In Progress > >> Status in Fedora: > >> Confirmed > >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > >> Confirmed > >> Status in openSUSE: > >> In Progress > >> Status in Tilix Linux: > >> New > >> > >> Bug description: > >> See Mark's closure comment here: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834 > >> ------ > >> > >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC > >> marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant > >> to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is > >> driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to > >> all." > >> > >> "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software > gives everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with > whoever they like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the > spectrum it enables the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective > experience and expertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the > other, we are able to give access to essential software for those who > couldn=E2=80=99t otherwise afford it =E2=80=93 an advantage that=E2=80=99= s keenly felt by > individuals and organisations all over the world." > >> * http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy > >> > >> Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and > >> concentrates control over the technology which powers our society in= to > >> the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles > >> innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious > >> anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic > >> practices. > >> > >> This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > >> > >> Steps to repeat: > >> > >> 1. Visit a local PC store. > >> 2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software. > >> > >> What happens: > >> > >> Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre- > >> installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operati= ng > >> system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be > >> proprietary. > >> > >> What should happen: > >> > >> A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. > >> > >> * http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html > >> * http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines > >> * http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd > >> > >> To manage notifications about this bug go to: > >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions > > -- > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share > > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 18:37:47 -0000 Message-Id: What are the numbers of the fork bugs? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 18:45:54 -0000 Message-Id: I still do not agree. Microsoft never had majority market share on anything but desktop. > Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 18:29:51 +0000 > From: marceloatie@gmail.com > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > i think Bug #1 was closed, and "Microsoft has a majority market share on > the Desktop" is another bug. >=20 > 2014-10-24 15:29 GMT-02:00 Randall Ross : >=20 > > Perhaps we should change the bug name to: > > > > "Microsoft has a majority market share on the Desktop" > > > > If need be, bugs can be opened for other form factors. > > > > > > On 10/24/2014 10:19 AM, Faldegast wrote: > > > Actually no. This was always about desktop. Of course the fact that m= any > > > usecases have an alternative that works on android or chrome have made > > > things better. But I still can't use Photoshop or Cubase on Linux. > > > > > > Personally I don't think we have fully won before Microsoft starts > > > supporting Linux with Office etc. Of course replacing vendor-locked > > > applications with open source are optimal but so far we have only > > > succeed with webbrowsers. > > > > > > If Google succeeds in moving everything into the browser thats a win > > > against OS monopoly but we should remember that Chrome Store are NOT > > > Open source. But Native Client and PPAPI is so building an alternate > > > store is possible and moving offering software in more than one store > > > are a lot easier than supporting different operating systems. > > > > > >> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 16:19:55 +0000 > > >> From: 1@bugs.launchpad.net > > >> To: faldegast@hotmail.com > > >> Subject: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share > > >> > > >> Hi :) > > >> +1 > > >> except the question is really out-dated now. There's really 3 forks= of > > >> it; > > >> > > >> 1. desktop only =3D still not fixed > > >> 2. total devices used by weeus =3D done but debatable > > >> 3. handhelds =3D definitely done. > > >> > > >> Regards from > > >> Tom :) > > >> > > >> -- > > >> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the= bug > > >> report. > > >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > >> > > >> Title: > > >> Microsoft has a majority market share > > >> > > >> Status in Club Distro: > > >> Confirmed > > >> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > > >> Confirmed > > >> Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: > > >> New > > >> Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > > >> Invalid > > >> Status in dylan.NET: > > >> Invalid > > >> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > > >> Invalid > > >> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > > >> Invalid > > >> Status in JAK LINUX: > > >> Invalid > > >> Status in LibreOffice: > > >> In Progress > > >> Status in The Linux Kernel: > > >> New > > >> Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: > > >> In Progress > > >> Status in The Linux OS Project: > > >> In Progress > > >> Status in Neobot: > > >> New > > >> Status in Novabot: > > >> New > > >> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > > >> In Progress > > >> Status in Tabuntu: > > >> Invalid > > >> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > > >> Invalid > > >> Status in Tv-Player: > > >> Invalid > > >> Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: > > >> In Progress > > >> Status in Ubuntu: > > >> Fix Released > > >> Status in Arch Linux: > > >> Confirmed > > >> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > > >> Invalid > > >> Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > > >> In Progress > > >> Status in Fedora: > > >> Confirmed > > >> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > > >> Confirmed > > >> Status in openSUSE: > > >> In Progress > > >> Status in Tilix Linux: > > >> New > > >> > > >> Bug description: > > >> See Mark's closure comment here: > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834 > > >> ------ > > >> > > >> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC > > >> marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are mea= nt > > >> to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work = is > > >> driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to > > >> all." > > >> > > >> "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software > > gives everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with > > whoever they like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the > > spectrum it enables the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collecti= ve > > experience and expertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At t= he > > other, we are able to give access to essential software for those who > > couldn=E2=80=99t otherwise afford it =E2=80=93 an advantage that=E2=80= =99s keenly felt by > > individuals and organisations all over the world." > > >> * http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy > > >> > > >> Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner = and > > >> concentrates control over the technology which powers our society = into > > >> the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles > > >> innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious > > >> anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic > > >> practices. > > >> > > >> This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > >> > > >> Steps to repeat: > > >> > > >> 1. Visit a local PC store. > > >> 2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software. > > >> > > >> What happens: > > >> > > >> Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows p= re- > > >> installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux opera= ting > > >> system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be > > >> proprietary. > > >> > > >> What should happen: > > >> > > >> A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. > > >> > > >> * http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html > > >> * http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines > > >> * http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd > > >> > > >> To manage notifications about this bug go to: > > >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions > > > > -- > > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > > report. > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > > > Title: > > Microsoft has a majority market share > > > > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions > > >=20 > --=20 > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >=20 > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: > New > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in The Linux Kernel: > New > Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in Neobot: > New > Status in Novabot: > New > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > Invalid > Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu: > Fix Released > Status in Arch Linux: > Confirmed > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fedora: > Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New >=20 > Bug description: > See Mark's closure comment here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug= /1/comments/1834 > ------ >=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC > marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant > to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is > driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to > all." >=20 > "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software giv= es everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with whoever = they like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the spectrum it en= ables the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective experience and = expertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the other, we are ab= le to give access to essential software for those who couldn=E2=80=99t othe= rwise afford it =E2=80=93 an advantage that=E2=80=99s keenly felt by indivi= duals and organisations all over the world." > * http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy >=20 > Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and > concentrates control over the technology which powers our society into > the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles > innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious > anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic > practices. >=20 > This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >=20 > Steps to repeat: >=20 > 1. Visit a local PC store. > 2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software. >=20 > What happens: >=20 > Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre- > installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operating > system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be > proprietary. >=20 > What should happen: >=20 > A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. >=20 > * http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html > * http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines > * http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd >=20 > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alberto Salvia Novella (es20490446e) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 19:38:30 -0000 Message-Id: <544AAAB6.7010605@gmail.com> Randall Ross: > Perhaps we should change the bug name to: > > "Microsoft has a majority market share on the Desktop" I agree with the proposal, as it will put things on "scope" :-) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2014 12:42:10 -0000 Message-Id: Hi :) When this bug was first posted even laptops were quite rare. So the only form-factor that people were aware of was desktops. It is already difficult to imagine such a time! It was after this bug was posted that netbooks came out and they were swiftly crushed by clever tactics from MS. Do you remember going through that time? It was unthinkable that normal users might have access to anything non-MS. That is what this bug-report is about. If the original poster could go back in time then i am certain there would have been at least 3 bug-reports in order to still apply today. Almost everyone who posted to this thread was basing their responses on the solid fact that desktop machines were the only form-factor available to normal users. This bug-report was about reaching normal users. As such it HAS been solved. Now the whole landscape has changed radically. There are new words to cover technology that hadn't been anticipated outside of Sci-fi. Many of the responses are laughably wrong these days but were quite wise at the time. We have an opportunity to recognise that things were different back in the old days and an opportunity to cut away legacy stuff that is no longer useful. Continuing with this thread would be much like keeping a bug-report open about support for Betamax systems or even VHS ones. While technically not solved it has become largely irrelevant because it fails to account for the new landscape. Of course 1 slight difference is that people still have movies that were recorded onto Betamx or VHS ;) Regards from Tom :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Faldegast (faldegast) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 14:45:47 -0000 Message-Id: Yeah a lot of things have changed. But what's not changed are the fact that a majority of Internet users are surfing on Windows. Yeah I remember reading this bug on a Symbian smartphone. The growth of smartphones and pads are certainly an expression of discontent with Windows, and a big blow to Microsoft. But a majority of the users are still on desktops running windows. I hope that chromeos will defeat windows on this battlefield. Personally I will not consider this bug solved until Window joins Internet Explorer's decline, which I think will happen if ChromeOS success continues. > Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2014 12:42:10 +0000 > From: 1@bugs.launchpad.net > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > Subject: Re: [ubuntu-marketing] [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority mark= et share >=20 > Hi :) > When this bug was first posted even laptops were quite rare. So the only > form-factor that people were aware of was desktops. It is already > difficult to imagine such a time! >=20 > It was after this bug was posted that netbooks came out and they were > swiftly crushed by clever tactics from MS. Do you remember going through > that time? It was unthinkable that normal users might have access to > anything non-MS. That is what this bug-report is about. >=20 > If the original poster could go back in time then i am certain there would > have been at least 3 bug-reports in order to still apply today. Almost > everyone who posted to this thread was basing their responses on the solid > fact that desktop machines were the only form-factor available to normal > users. >=20 > This bug-report was about reaching normal users. >=20 > As such it HAS been solved. >=20 > Now the whole landscape has changed radically. There are new words to > cover technology that hadn't been anticipated outside of Sci-fi. Many of > the responses are laughably wrong these days but were quite wise at the > time. >=20 >=20 > We have an opportunity to recognise that things were different back in the > old days and an opportunity to cut away legacy stuff that is no longer > useful. >=20 > Continuing with this thread would be much like keeping a bug-report open > about support for Betamax systems or even VHS ones. While technically not > solved it has become largely irrelevant because it fails to account for t= he > new landscape. Of course 1 slight difference is that people still have > movies that were recorded onto Betamx or VHS ;) >=20 > Regards from > Tom :) >=20 > --=20 > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 >=20 > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share >=20 > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: > New > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in The Linux Kernel: > New > Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in Neobot: > New > Status in Novabot: > New > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > Invalid > Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu: > Fix Released > Status in Arch Linux: > Confirmed > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fedora: > Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New >=20 > Bug description: > See Mark's closure comment here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug= /1/comments/1834 > ------ >=20 > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC > marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant > to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is > driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to > all." >=20 > "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software giv= es everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with whoever = they like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the spectrum it en= ables the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective experience and = expertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the other, we are ab= le to give access to essential software for those who couldn=E2=80=99t othe= rwise afford it =E2=80=93 an advantage that=E2=80=99s keenly felt by indivi= duals and organisations all over the world." > * http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy >=20 > Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and > concentrates control over the technology which powers our society into > the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles > innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious > anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic > practices. >=20 > This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. >=20 > Steps to repeat: >=20 > 1. Visit a local PC store. > 2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software. >=20 > What happens: >=20 > Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre- > installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operating > system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be > proprietary. >=20 > What should happen: >=20 > A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. >=20 > * http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html > * http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines > * http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd >=20 > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 17:48:00 -0000 Message-Id: Hi :) I thought hand-helds had over-taken desktops? Surely that was the point? So the majority of users are using non-Windows platforms. Hence all the fuss, in magazines and other articles, about "the end of the desktops" (which i think we mostly agree is unlikely) Regards from Tom :) On 27 October 2014 14:45, Faldegast <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Yeah a lot of things have changed. But what's not changed are the fact > that a majority of Internet users are surfing on Windows. > > Yeah I remember reading this bug on a Symbian smartphone. The growth of > smartphones and pads are certainly an expression of discontent with > Windows, and a big blow to Microsoft. > > But a majority of the users are still on desktops running windows. I > hope that chromeos will defeat windows on this battlefield. > > Personally I will not consider this bug solved until Window joins > Internet Explorer's decline, which I think will happen if ChromeOS > success continues. > > > Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2014 12:42:10 +0000 > > From: 1@bugs.launchpad.net > > To: faldegast@hotmail.com > > Subject: Re: [ubuntu-marketing] [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority > market share > > > > Hi :) > > When this bug was first posted even laptops were quite rare. So the on= ly > > form-factor that people were aware of was desktops. It is already > > difficult to imagine such a time! > > > > It was after this bug was posted that netbooks came out and they were > > swiftly crushed by clever tactics from MS. Do you remember going throu= gh > > that time? It was unthinkable that normal users might have access to > > anything non-MS. That is what this bug-report is about. > > > > If the original poster could go back in time then i am certain there > would > > have been at least 3 bug-reports in order to still apply today. Almost > > everyone who posted to this thread was basing their responses on the > solid > > fact that desktop machines were the only form-factor available to normal > > users. > > > > This bug-report was about reaching normal users. > > > > As such it HAS been solved. > > > > Now the whole landscape has changed radically. There are new words to > > cover technology that hadn't been anticipated outside of Sci-fi. Many = of > > the responses are laughably wrong these days but were quite wise at the > > time. > > > > > > We have an opportunity to recognise that things were different back in > the > > old days and an opportunity to cut away legacy stuff that is no longer > > useful. > > > > Continuing with this thread would be much like keeping a bug-report open > > about support for Betamax systems or even VHS ones. While technically > not > > solved it has become largely irrelevant because it fails to account for > the > > new landscape. Of course 1 slight difference is that people still have > > movies that were recorded onto Betamx or VHS ;) > > > > Regards from > > Tom :) > > > > -- > > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > > report. > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > > > Title: > > Microsoft has a majority market share > > > > Status in Club Distro: > > Confirmed > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > > Confirmed > > Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: > > New > > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > > Invalid > > Status in dylan.NET: > > Invalid > > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > > Invalid > > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > > Invalid > > Status in JAK LINUX: > > Invalid > > Status in LibreOffice: > > In Progress > > Status in The Linux Kernel: > > New > > Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: > > In Progress > > Status in The Linux OS Project: > > In Progress > > Status in Neobot: > > New > > Status in Novabot: > > New > > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > > In Progress > > Status in Tabuntu: > > Invalid > > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > > Invalid > > Status in Tv-Player: > > Invalid > > Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: > > In Progress > > Status in Ubuntu: > > Fix Released > > Status in Arch Linux: > > Confirmed > > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > > Invalid > > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > > In Progress > > Status in Fedora: > > Confirmed > > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > > Confirmed > > Status in openSUSE: > > In Progress > > Status in Tilix Linux: > > New > > > > Bug description: > > See Mark's closure comment here: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834 > > ------ > > > > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC > > marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant > > to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is > > driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to > > all." > > > > "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software > gives everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with > whoever they like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the > spectrum it enables the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective > experience and expertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the > other, we are able to give access to essential software for those who > couldn=E2=80=99t otherwise afford it =E2=80=93 an advantage that=E2=80=99= s keenly felt by > individuals and organisations all over the world." > > * http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy > > > > Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and > > concentrates control over the technology which powers our society into > > the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles > > innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious > > anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic > > practices. > > > > This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > > > Steps to repeat: > > > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > 2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software. > > > > What happens: > > > > Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre- > > installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operating > > system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be > > proprietary. > > > > What should happen: > > > > A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. > > > > * http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html > > * http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines > > * http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd > > > > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions > > -- > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share > > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: > New > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in The Linux Kernel: > New > Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in Neobot: > New > Status in Novabot: > New > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > Invalid > Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: > In Progress > Status in Ubuntu: > Fix Released > Status in Arch Linux: > Confirmed > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Invalid > Status in =E2=80=9Clinux=E2=80=9D package in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fedora: > Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New > > Bug description: > See Mark's closure comment here: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834 > ------ > > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC > marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant > to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is > driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to > all." > > "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software > gives everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with > whoever they like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the > spectrum it enables the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective > experience and expertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the > other, we are able to give access to essential software for those who > couldn=E2=80=99t otherwise afford it =E2=80=93 an advantage that=E2=80=99= s keenly felt by > individuals and organisations all over the world." > * http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy > > Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and > concentrates control over the technology which powers our society into > the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles > innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious > anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic > practices. > > This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > 2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software. > > What happens: > > Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre- > installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operating > system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be > proprietary. > > What should happen: > > A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. > > * http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html > * http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines > * http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd > > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Ubuntu QA Website (ubuntuqa) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 22:56:55 -0000 Message-Id: <20150113225655.24171.3563.malone@gac.canonical.com> This bug has been reported on the Ubuntu ISO testing tracker. A list of all reports related to this bug can be found here: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/reports/bugs/1 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mohican (mohican) Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 19:19:34 -0000 Message-Id: <20150522191934.5988.51208.malone@gac.canonical.com> ------------------------- Summary : The only strategy that could lead to GNU/Linux [Ubuntu] being adopted by a = large number of users is to do what Apple has done with the "Mac" : sell sp= ecifically assembled computers with a distinctive brand (e.g. the "Tux") an= d build a user-friendly brand-image through marketing. ------------------------- 1. Harware compatibility is the number one problem I've been installing Ubuntu on friend's computers since 2010. I installed 12 different machines (4 desktops and 8 laptops). I had various harware compatibility problems on 75% of these machines ! (mainly related to GPU, Wifi, Bluetooth, ACPI (suspend), brightness, keyboard special keys, touchpad, kernel mei module and black screen on the first run). Plus compatibility problems with peripheral hardware (smartphones, printers, scanners, TV tuners...). This is exhausting. (And people are not won for Ubuntu : when a friend buys a new machine I have to do the job again.) I do it only because I am highly motivated. Highly motivated people are scarce, they cannot change significantly the marketshare of GNU/Linux. It is not true that ordinary users can simply download and install Ubuntu e= asily on their machine. This will never happen because new hardware are con= stantly been released without Linux compatibility. Ordinary people will never buy PCs to install Ubuntu on it. (Ordinary peopl= e never install OS anyway !) ***Ubuntu need to be sold pre-installed on 100% compatible harware.*** But this is not enough, people will not buy PCs with an alternative OS on i= t. People buy PCs with Windows because they know it and expect it to work 1= 00% (or they install a cracked version of Windows on their new PC) - or - i= f they can afford it - they buy Macs*. *In the last years a lot of people have switched from PCs to Macs. This was= a lost opportunity for GNU/Linux. But it is not too late. ***Ubuntu need to be sold pre-installed on 100% compatible harware that has a distinctive GNU/Linux branding.*** Let's call these machines "Tux". There should also be Tux-certified periphe= rals or even Tux-peripherals. When these machines are available in stores, then people will have the choi= ce to buy either PCs, Macs or "Tuxes". Why would people buy Tuxes rather than Macs or PCs ? 2. GNU/Linux is unknown or has a "designed-for-geeks" reputation They will buy them if a succesful marketing campaign convinces them that : - Tuxes are as innovative, stable, user-friendly and cool as Macs ; - Tuxes are even better than Macs because they bring more compatibility wit= h other systems and more freedom ; - It should also be clear that "Tuxes" are fully integrating with Ubuntu ph= ones and FirefoxOS phones. Tuxes then should sell better than Macs because they will be cheaper. (Tuxe= s should be at the same price as PCs or a little higher.) Apple is the most successful business in the world. Mostly because they wer= e very succesful in building a brand-image. We have the OS to do better than them. What are we waiting for ? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mohican (mohican) Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 22:33:36 -0000 Message-Id: <20150522223336.6122.53487.malone@gac.canonical.com> Reading more of this topic, I noticed that Faldegast (in post #1293) and torpedolos (in post #1301) also introduced this idea of having a harware brand for GNU/Linux. Then a few others supported the idea. These posts have been made in august 2010. FIVE YEARS AGO... Let's not wait another five years please. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Marius B. Kotsbak (mariusko) Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 07:30:55 -0000 Message-Id: 2015-05-22 21:19 GMT+02:00 mohican <1@bugs.launchpad.net>: > ***Ubuntu need to be sold pre-installed on 100% compatible harware.*** > > But this is not enough, people will not buy PCs with an alternative OS on > it. People buy PCs with Windows because they know it and expect it to work > 100% (or they install a cracked version of Windows on their new PC) - or - > if they can afford it - they buy Macs*. > *In the last years a lot of people have switched from PCs to Macs. This > was a lost opportunity for GNU/Linux. But it is not too late. > > Add to this that it must at least support the latest LTS. My Dell M4800 is still only supporting 12.04.x (which has issues solved in later versions, but might never be backported) even though 14.04 LTS is there. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Barry Drake (b-drake) Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 07:49:29 -0000 Message-Id: <20150523074929.5988.19047.malone@gac.canonical.com> There is a hardware platform - it's called Lenovo. It is built to be totally compatible with Linux, and sold as a Linux machine in many parts of the world. AFAIK every Lenovo machine works totally out of the box with Ubuntu. I just upgraded my Lenovo Netbook from 14.04 to 15.04 and will shortly be getting a Lenovo Laptop for my daughter. Please, guys, lobby Lenovo to get their product out with Linux into our less civilised parts of the world (Europe, USA etc) where restrictive practices are still tolerated and corruption is rife ..... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 09:06:10 -0000 Message-Id: Checked in half an hour ago at a hotel where they use open office, Thunderbird, Firefox etc. - they are on a good way. I also switched all the required applications and only at the end changed the underlying OS. That way the switch works step by step. -- Martin Wildam Am 23.05.2015 09:56 schrieb "Barry Drake" : > There is a hardware platform - it's called Lenovo. It is built to be > totally compatible with Linux, and sold as a Linux machine in many parts > of the world. AFAIK every Lenovo machine works totally out of the box > with Ubuntu. I just upgraded my Lenovo Netbook from 14.04 to 15.04 and > will shortly be getting a Lenovo Laptop for my daughter. Please, guys, > lobby Lenovo to get their product out with Linux into our less civilised > parts of the world (Europe, USA etc) where restrictive practices are > still tolerated and corruption is rife ..... > > -- > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share > > Status in Club Distro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: > New > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in The Linux Kernel: > New > Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in Neobot: > New > Status in Novabot: > New > Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > Invalid > Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: > In Progress > Status in Wine: > Unknown > Status in Ubuntu: > Fix Released > Status in Arch Linux: > Confirmed > Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: > Confirmed > Status in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fedora: > Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix Linux: > New > > Bug description: > See Mark's closure comment here: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834 > ------ > > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC > marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant > to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is > driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to > all." > > "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software > gives everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with > whoever they like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the > spectrum it enables the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective > experience and expertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the > other, we are able to give access to essential software for those who > couldn=E2=80=99t otherwise afford it =E2=80=93 an advantage that=E2=80=99= s keenly felt by > individuals and organisations all over the world." > * http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy > > Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and > concentrates control over the technology which powers our society into > the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles > innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious > anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic > practices. > > This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > 2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software. > > What happens: > > Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre- > installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operating > system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be > proprietary. > > What should happen: > > A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. > > * http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html > * http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines > * http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd > > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: OpenContrail Admin (ci-admin-f) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2015 11:42:53 -0000 Message-Id: <20150601114253.6720.70256.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Review in progress for https://review.opencontrail.org/11113=20 Submitter: Vinay Vithal Mahuli (vmahuli@juniper.net) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: efa (efa) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2015 11:46:17 -0000 Message-Id: <20151005114617.22516.37290.malone@gac.canonical.com> bugs are ignored than closed, see: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-nouveau/+bug/1= 314804 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: ruediix@gmail.com (ruedii) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 22:13:38 -0000 Message-Id: <20151024221338.29902.80226.malone@wampee.canonical.com> I noticed that it hasn't been mentioned, but Microsoft Windows Mobile has failed to take hold of the mobile market. That is some serious progress on this bug. Devs are realizing that Windows is not superior. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Shaun Husain (shaun-husain) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 00:18:29 -0000 Message-Id: In 2013 Mark Shuttleworth marked the bug as resolved in Ubuntu since Android and ios have created diversity in the market which defeats the issue despite Ubuntu itself not having a direct hand in the shift. Also, mentioned in the post was the fact that the desktop os should focus on creating a better experience for the developer and end user. On Oct 24, 2015 5:20 PM, "ruediix@gmail.com" wrote: > I noticed that it hasn't been mentioned, but Microsoft Windows Mobile > has failed to take hold of the mobile market. > > That is some serious progress on this bug. Devs are realizing that > Windows is not superior. > > -- > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share > > Status in Clubdistro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: > New > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Invalid > Status in Ichthux: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in Linux: > New > Status in Linux Mint: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in Neobot: > New > Status in Novabot: > New > Status in OpenOffice: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in Tivion: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > Invalid > Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team: > In Progress > Status in Wine: > Unknown > Status in Ubuntu: > Fix Released > Status in Arch Linux: > Confirmed > Status in Baltix: > Confirmed > Status in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fedora: > Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix: > New > > Bug description: > See Mark's closure comment here: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834 > ------ > > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC > marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant > to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is > driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to > all." > > "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software > gives everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with > whoever they like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the > spectrum it enables the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective > experience and expertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the > other, we are able to give access to essential software for those who > couldn=E2=80=99t otherwise afford it =E2=80=93 an advantage that=E2=80=99= s keenly felt by > individuals and organisations all over the world." > * http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy > > Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and > concentrates control over the technology which powers our society into > the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles > innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious > anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic > practices. > > This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > 2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software. > > What happens: > > Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre- > installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operating > system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be > proprietary. > > What should happen: > > A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. > > * http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html > * http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines > * http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd > > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Ubuntu QA Website (ubuntuqa) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 10:12:39 -0000 Message-Id: <20151219101239.26114.91615.malone@gac.canonical.com> This bug has been reported on the Ubuntu Package testing tracker. A list of all reports related to this bug can be found here: http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/reports/bugs/1 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Mark Cariaga (mzc) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 00:02:48 -0000 Message-Id: <20160331000248.30307.72501.malone@gac.canonical.com> This if was not really closed. We just gave in: http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-and-canonical-partner-to-bring- ubuntu-to-windows-10/ --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: george2706 (george-bungarzescu) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:59:49 -0000 Message-Id: <20160331125949.3102.35345.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> I have to agree with @Mark Cariaga (mzc) The bug was never sent a proper solution. The reason is that there are a large base of software running ONLY on Windo= ws. Wine is hard at this moment to be configured and there are so many things = that can go wrong that never=20 In order to be able to fix this bug, wine must be fixed in the same way mi= crosoft engineers thought about. It can be done (see reactos for example ) = but only with the help of entire community I have to tell that from some point of view, open source comunity was not so wheel organised in order to fix what need to be fixed instead of adding and adding more and more features. So, Microsoft can do such things like "Windows Subsystem for Linux" (ok some times ago was another similar project with small impact , Windows Subsystem for Unix ) ) and open source developers are not able to ? Is this for real ? Is this a non fixable bug ? P.S Why everybody in recruitment use Microsoft Word format instead of open docu= ment format ??? Have Microsoft win the battle ? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Fernando Casar (conescandalo) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 06:20:06 -0000 Message-Id: <20160401062006.19027.49118.malone@soybean.canonical.com> This is the time for this bug to be expanded and moved to any other bug-tra= cker that's not part of canonical group ltd. There are so many issues to be addressed, ie. "the company I believed for m= ore than a decade is turning back on my principles" I understand that having a Linux container on windows is profitable for man= y people who's already running windows on their servers. But I must stand in the other side what about ms office running on native U= buntu? At most we can struggle to have ms office 2010 running with wine li= braries, but having power-point videos in this set-up isn't supported neith= er by Microsoft nor wine nor Canonical. This leaves us, the users and developers in a huge, asymmetrically driven r= ace condition. At this moment I have the exact same feeling as being ruled by an authorita= tive government. The involved companies are operating in the same corruption of world states= and their corrupted slug. I can't stand for ubuntu nor canonical any more, it is a huge disillusion. As a side note, I must state that the orthographic correction on this site doesn't like ubuntu nor microsoft but Ubuntu and Microsoft, so please give a thought about how linguistics influence our decisions, and if you should follow " THE STANDARD" or just give away. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Randall Ross (randall) Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 17:45:47 -0000 Message-Id: <5700054B.6010704@executiv.es> The fix for Bug #1 is to spread free software everywhere. With the recent Ubuntu in/on Windows announcement, (many many many) millions of people who couldn't access or participate in Ubuntu will soon have that ability, giving them a glimpse into our world and a chance they've never had. We're making good progress. Or, stated more poetically: / //=E2=80=9CThere is a crack in everything.// //That's how the light gets in.=E2=80=9D // -- Leonard Cohen / Cheers, Randall./ / --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 08:18:05 -0000 Message-Id: Neither the way Microsoft will/says/wants bringing Ubuntu to Windows nor the rise of Android on the mobile phones is IMHO an argument to mark Bug 1 solved. Even from the usability of the basic operating system I think there are still to-dos left to make more people move to Linux - apart from the bigger problem of 3rd-party Windows-only-application lockin and dependency of formats that are Windows-only (only yesterday I was confronted with a QuarkXpress user and couldn't tell, what Linux app can open and edit them). I mean there are basics like this: http://askubuntu.com/questions/285493/how-to-show-full-date-and-time-in-nau= tilus-files-3-6-list-view - Not sure if everything fixed in https://launchpad.net/~mc3man/+archive/ubuntu/nauty-mods has found it's way into the latest Ubuntu 14.04 and into 16.04 (will check when it's out). Or like this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/792085 There are other annoyances and none of them will hold back those who know well about the benefits of Linux, but it may hold back new users when they try Ubuntu for a week and struggle with such basic things. And as long as users do not definitely request and demand for Linux they won't get it from the hardware vendors because they don't care if the users don't care. Best regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 14:44:39 -0000 Message-Id: Post scriptum: IMHO as the description of bug 1 shows it is pretty obvious that the bug is not solved so I do not understand why it's status is "fix released". > This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > 2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software. > > What happens: > > Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre- > installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operating > system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be > proprietary. > > What should happen: > > A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. This is simply not the case. Sorry for repeating, but it seems to me that somehow the original idea has been forgotten. And a smartphone is not a PC and a tablet isn't either! I do not know a single person using a smart phone or tablet as a replacement for the PC - in best case those mobile devices are used _in addition to_ PC or laptop. Best regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: zakzor (zakzor) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 23:13:59 -0000 Message-Id: <20160406231359.9781.4359.malone@wampee.canonical.com> @Martin Wildam +1 This bug was never fixed. Not even close. And the word "liberation" was added later and I don't see any of it. Microsoft "loves" Linux? What about open source being a cancer a few years ago? Yes, they are afraid but, as always, they know what they are doing. We, on the other hand, do we know what we are doing? Letting things flow and say Android fixed this bug? Where I work we only sell machines with Windows preinsalled and my machine uses Windows. I am "free" to use an Ubuntu live session for troubleshooting purposes only. Sad.... But true. Take care all, Tiago Ribeiro aka zakzor --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?b?4Kaw4Ka/4KaCICh0b3NoYXplZCk=?= Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 21:19:07 -0000 Message-Id: <20160627211907.14879.81342.malone@soybean.canonical.com> Hi I am Shazedur Rahim Joardar Ring from Bangladesh. In here the vendors like hp and dell brings up the laptops with Ubuntu or OpenSuse pre- installed but when it reaches to the peoples hand it got the distros demolished by the IT support people of the retailers and fenestra (synonym of MS ..) is loaded with some pirated software like photoshop, maya etc. This is how bad it is going so far. Since 2011 in here in Bangladesh, FOSS Bangladesh had organized 80+ events in the various universities, colleges and schools to aware the next generation-the pupils about the freedom or liberation they need in the digital world. We had also organized some "GNU/Linux installation fest" to give real end user support. We had forums in local languages in here in Bangladesh where the end users are getting online support in using distros like Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora, OpenSuse etc. Approximately 500K peoples get noticed about their freedom, get the end user support and began their fight for their freedom in the digital world and makes sure it sustained since 2011. Now a days pupils of various universities in here goes to the market with pen drives with live distros and checkout the hardwares before buying them, if those happily working with ubuntu or not! This is how this Bug#1 is going to be fixed, someday near future. But we shouldn't get relaxed of thinking that, the Fix will sustain forever. We all need to raise our voice and make it loud to louder for our freedom. Every day, Every second of it needs hard labour for being liberated. :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Luca Ciavatta (cialu) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2016 14:40:08 -0000 Message-Id: <20161213144009.27677.69395.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> I confirm this bug. I visited some local PC stores (middle-sized city in Italy) and I attempted= to buy a machine without any proprietary software. All the computers on sale had proprietary software. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Tom (tom6) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2016 12:20:47 -0000 Message-Id: Hi :) While this is still true and unlikely to change many people are using chromebooks, tablets, phones and other devices to do things that they previously would have had to use a desktop to do. Laptops have also become much more popular too. A few years ago some study allegedly found that 80% of computer usage is now done using tablets and phones. For tablets and phones gnu&linux is king. Android is a flavour of gnu&linux on a layer of java. Blackberry is gnu&linux, and of course Chrome is too. iPads and iPhones, really anything Apple, is a flavour of BSD, which is another unix-based system =3D practically a sister/brother of gnu&linux. Apparently only about 1% of hand-helds (tablets and phones etc) use a Windows-based system. Windows has one major disadvantage in trying to run on hand-helds which is that it's a huge great big bloated behemoth despite their best efforts at slashing it down-to-size. It just about manages to cope on laptops but when they tried to push it onto netbooks it performed so badly that it killed the entire netbook market. We see some resurgence of the netbook market through Chromebooks but people are still wary of that form-factor, thanks to Windows. Windows are attempting to rewrite Windows to work on Arm chips, having recently abandoned their earlier recent attempt, but it's likely they will still need vast amounts of resources, such as one would reasonably expect from a desktop/laptop - and still not work on other form-factors. So wearables (incl watches) and handhelds, and chromebooks are likely to keep using unix-based systems, usually specifically gnu&linux. This bug was first raised when the word "desktop" covered all the form-factors that could be used in small-business and by families or other private usage. Nowadays the term "desktop", even if expanded to include laptops, only represents under 20% of that market. Regards from Tom :) On 13 December 2016 at 14:40, Luca Ciavatta wrote: > I confirm this bug. > I visited some local PC stores (middle-sized city in Italy) and I > attempted to buy a machine without any proprietary software. > > All the computers on sale had proprietary software. > > -- > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share > > Status in Clubdistro: > Confirmed > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > Confirmed > Status in LibreOffice: > New > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > Invalid > Status in dylan.NET: > Invalid > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > Confirmed > Status in Ichthux: > Invalid > Status in JAK LINUX: > Invalid > Status in LibreOffice: > In Progress > Status in Skylinux: > New > Status in Linux Mint: > In Progress > Status in The Linux OS Project: > In Progress > Status in Neobot: > New > Status in Novabot: > New > Status in OpenOffice: > In Progress > Status in Tabuntu: > Invalid > Status in Tivion: > Invalid > Status in Tv-Player: > Invalid > Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team: > In Progress > Status in Wine: > Unknown > Status in Ubuntu: > Fix Released > Status in Arch Linux: > Confirmed > Status in Baltix: > Confirmed > Status in Debian: > In Progress > Status in Fedora: > Confirmed > Status in Fluxbuntu: > Confirmed > Status in openSUSE: > In Progress > Status in Tilix: > New > > Bug description: > See Mark's closure comment here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ > ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834 > ------ > > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC > marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant > to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is > driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to > all." > > "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software > gives everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with > whoever they like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the > spectrum it enables the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective > experience and expertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the > other, we are able to give access to essential software for those who > couldn=E2=80=99t otherwise afford it =E2=80=93 an advantage that=E2=80=99= s keenly felt by > individuals and organisations all over the world." > * http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy > > Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and > concentrates control over the technology which powers our society into > the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles > innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious > anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic > practices. > > This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > Steps to repeat: > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > 2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software. > > What happens: > > Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre- > installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operating > system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be > proprietary. > > What should happen: > > A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. > > * http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html > * http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines > * http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd > > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: zakzor (zakzor) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2016 13:02:27 -0000 Message-Id: "So wearables (incl watches) (...) are likely to keep using unix-based systems, usually specifically gnu&linux." Tizen is one of them. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tizen Regards, zakzor On Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 12:35 Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > Hi :) > While this is still true and unlikely to change many people are using > chromebooks, tablets, phones and other devices to do things that they > previously would have had to use a desktop to do. Laptops have also beco= me > much more popular too. A few years ago some study allegedly found that 8= 0% > of computer usage is now done using tablets and phones. > > For tablets and phones gnu&linux is king. Android is a flavour of > gnu&linux on a layer of java. Blackberry is gnu&linux, and of course > Chrome is too. iPads and iPhones, really anything Apple, is a flavour of > BSD, which is another unix-based system =3D practically a sister/brother = of > gnu&linux. Apparently only about 1% of hand-helds (tablets and phones et= c) > use a Windows-based system. Windows has one major disadvantage in trying > to run on hand-helds which is that it's a huge great big bloated behemoth > despite their best efforts at slashing it down-to-size. It just about > manages to cope on laptops but when they tried to push it onto netbooks it > performed so badly that it killed the entire netbook market. We see some > resurgence of the netbook market through Chromebooks but people are still > wary of that form-factor, thanks to Windows. > > Windows are attempting to rewrite Windows to work on Arm chips, having > recently abandoned their earlier recent attempt, but it's likely they will > still need vast amounts of resources, such as one would reasonably expect > from a desktop/laptop - and still not work on other form-factors. > > So wearables (incl watches) and handhelds, and chromebooks are likely to > keep using unix-based systems, usually specifically gnu&linux. > > > This bug was first raised when the word "desktop" covered all the > form-factors that could be used in small-business and by families or other > private usage. Nowadays the term "desktop", even if expanded to include > laptops, only represents under 20% of that market. > > Regards from > Tom :) > > > On 13 December 2016 at 14:40, Luca Ciavatta > wrote: > > > I confirm this bug. > > I visited some local PC stores (middle-sized city in Italy) and I > > attempted to buy a machine without any proprietary software. > > > > All the computers on sale had proprietary software. > > > > -- > > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > > report. > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > > > Title: > > Microsoft has a majority market share > > > > Status in Clubdistro: > > Confirmed > > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: > > Confirmed > > Status in LibreOffice: > > New > > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: > > Invalid > > Status in dylan.NET: > > Invalid > > Status in EasyPeasy Overview: > > Confirmed > > Status in Ichthux: > > Invalid > > Status in JAK LINUX: > > Invalid > > Status in LibreOffice: > > In Progress > > Status in Skylinux: > > New > > Status in Linux Mint: > > In Progress > > Status in The Linux OS Project: > > In Progress > > Status in Neobot: > > New > > Status in Novabot: > > New > > Status in OpenOffice: > > In Progress > > Status in Tabuntu: > > Invalid > > Status in Tivion: > > Invalid > > Status in Tv-Player: > > Invalid > > Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team: > > In Progress > > Status in Wine: > > Unknown > > Status in Ubuntu: > > Fix Released > > Status in Arch Linux: > > Confirmed > > Status in Baltix: > > Confirmed > > Status in Debian: > > In Progress > > Status in Fedora: > > Confirmed > > Status in Fluxbuntu: > > Confirmed > > Status in openSUSE: > > In Progress > > Status in Tilix: > > New > > > > Bug description: > > See Mark's closure comment here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ > > ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834 > > ------ > > > > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC > > marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant > > to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is > > driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to > > all." > > > > "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software > > gives everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with > > whoever they like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the > > spectrum it enables the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collecti= ve > > experience and expertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At t= he > > other, we are able to give access to essential software for those who > > couldn=E2=80=99t otherwise afford it =E2=80=93 an advantage that=E2=80= =99s keenly felt by > > individuals and organisations all over the world." > > * http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy > > > > Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and > > concentrates control over the technology which powers our society into > > the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles > > innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious > > anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic > > practices. > > > > This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. > > > > Steps to repeat: > > > > 1. Visit a local PC store. > > 2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software. > > > > What happens: > > > > Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre- > > installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operating > > system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be > > proprietary. > > > > What should happen: > > > > A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. > > > > * http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html > > * http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines > > * http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd > > > > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions > > > > -- > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 > > Title: > Microsoft has a majority market share > > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions > --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2016 21:22:42 -0000 Message-Id: On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 1:20 PM, Tom <1@bugs.launchpad.net> wrote: > A few years ago some study allegedly found that 80% > of computer usage is now done using tablets and phones. You mean 80 % of the computer usage that nobody really needs is now done using tablets and phones. Apart from storekeepers that nowadays do their checklists and confirm their good receipts via tablet I barely see people doing their real work via phone or tablet (at least apart from writing emails). Or would you say 80 % of the computer work is e-mailing. mmmhh - could even be... ;-) > [...] > This bug was first raised when the word "desktop" covered all the > form-factors that could be used in small-business and by families or other > private usage. Nowadays the term "desktop", even if expanded to include > laptops, only represents under 20% of that market. My experience is, that everybody still uses desktop or laptop - at least for the more sophisticated work. I don't know a single person who owns just a phone or tablet and not also a desktop or laptop computer. Of course I would put desktops and laptop together in the group. Anyway, Bug 1 is not fixed yet! Best regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: brian russell (vagemulo) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2017 16:44:40 -0000 Message-Id: <20170104164440.2953.68600.malone@gac.canonical.com> bug 1 is a platform monopoly problem. In the case of Ebay, Uber, Airbnb, Windows, most people are on each of these platforms, because, well, everyone else is on that platform. Not because the platform is better. Fortunately, it seems there is a bugfix emerging for the plaform monopoly problem, and its called crowdacting. crowdacting.org it will take some time before truly massive migration like a windows to linux migration is possible, but smaller migrations are sure to start taking place and inspiring larger migrations. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Karim "TheSola10" Vergnes (bobilesoft) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 08:24:34 -0000 Message-Id: <20170227082434.20258.14563.malone@gac.canonical.com> Let us ponder for a moment on the Founding Bug of Ubuntu. Now that Shuttleworth has accepted to port Ubuntu as the official platform for the Windows Subsystem for Linux. Maybe it is time to think about that "fix released". I know, =C2=AB the world has changed =C2=BB, =C2=AB we've c= ome to better terms =C2=BB... Microsoft does NOT change. You don't "come to better terms" with Microsoft, you leave your project be abducted by Microsoft. I think our fellow Mark closed this bug too soon. Too hastily. So long as WSL exists, the bug will exist. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 17:55:10 -0000 Message-Id: PC and laptop times are not over, no, tablets and mobile phones are not an alternative. Alternative devices may obsolete a PC at many places, but: For those who want a PC or laptop if they go to a shop, they still pretty everywhere only find Windows. There should be some hardware that comes preinstalled with Linux/Ubuntu (and maybe not only the old slow hardware), but this is not the case (neither for the older hardware). So this bug is very clearly not-solved. It might be obsolete, if Android is used on PCs also and even the CAD users have there software running on Android also. Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: mohican (mohican) Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2017 22:44:06 -0000 Message-Id: <20170306224406.6055.10242.malone@soybean.canonical.com> I suggest changing the title of this bug to : "Non-free systems have a majority market share" which is certainly the original intended idea of this bug. (Of course Google Android is not a free system because it contains non- free Google Mobile Services.) And therefore re-opening the bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Boris Malkov (hikari968) Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2017 11:20:29 -0000 Message-Id: <20170309112029.27378.94823.malone@gac.canonical.com> I'm using Ubuntu since 8.04, and have noticed something. It was improving w= ith every single release, but since 12.04 I don't see neither the progress = nor at least stability: it is getting worse. The 16.04 tortures me with man= y glitches on the daily basis, and I found here a bug report already submit= ted by other people for every problem I have. Most of those reports are YEA= RS old and still are UNASSIGNED. This tells me: Ubuntu doesn't give a s**t = to user experience and bug reports any more. So I think this particular bug will never be resolved, at list because no o= ne cares. And, btw, Ubuntu became so s**tty that I switched to other distro= after many years with Ubuntu. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Martin Wildam (mwildam) Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2017 23:58:24 -0000 Message-Id: On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 12:20 PM, Boris Malkov wrote: > I'm using Ubuntu since 8.04, and have noticed something. It was improving= with every single release, > but since 12.04 I don't see neither the progress nor at least stability: = it is getting worse. I am not an Ubuntu developer, but as far as I know, lately most things happening, happen in the background / under the hood (e.g. X11 replacement). And of course this might cause more bugs rising (temporary). And yes, I also experience some issues, such as [Bug 792085] Re: Automatic remount of safely removed USB 3.0 drive which finally got fixed (even if on launchpad it is not yet marked as fix released). But I am still fine with the overall stability and I use Ubuntu all day on my primary work laptop and several other machines/devices. > The 16.04 tortures me with many glitches on the daily basis, and I found = here a bug report already submitted by other people for every > problem I have. Most of those reports are YEARS old and still are UNASSIG= NED. I found 2 bugs you are following which are older. One is Bug #304345: "File chooser dialog doesn't provide network access" - which is a duplicate of another bug which has been fixed. The other is Bug #971219: "Remmina Crashes with when connecting to some RDP hosts" which in reality is not an Ubuntu issue only. People write that it depends on the certificate on the remote Windows machine. And oh yes, there is a third issue that is related to launchpad itself. Is that what you identify as reduced overall Ubuntu stability? What I see at co-workers and customers what they fight with Windows, I am still way better off with Linux. > This tells me: Ubuntu doesn't give a s**t to user experience and bug repo= rts any more. > So I think this particular bug will never be resolved, at list because no= one cares. > And, btw, Ubuntu became so s**tty that I switched to other distro after m= any years with Ubuntu. My experience is that the better details on a problem you serve the better the answer is, what you get. So maybe try to provide more exact details on your problems to help the developers finding the bug faster. Best regards, Martin. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: You Probably Expected Something But It's Just Me, (minaokorosu) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 20:09:45 -0000 Message-Id: <149565658519.22938.13767446427006156719.malone@wampee.canonical.com> Regards from Kaliningrad, Russia That bug is being fixed here partially by now, see below. Just to make sure, I visited some PC shops around and, to my surprise, found some computers with Ubuntu and few with FreeDOS (and, as consultant said, any linux distro from list could be installed for free). The fun is what some own Linux distro is used (AFAIK) by Russian Ministry o= f Internal Affairs, and there is military Rosa linux (totally shitty from w= hat I heard but still).=20 If only we could make schools to teach students to use Linux systems instea= d, that would change the game.=20 I estimate the prevalence of free software in education here as about 15-18%, maybe 25% based on what I see in university. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Wine-z (wine-z) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 18:19:17 -0000 Message-Id: <151411368603.24077.11862636149930124037.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. A lot of software depends on the win32 api, so wine should eventually have to be the most popular implementation of it. This idea came from https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1 ;-) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jan-wine (jan-wine) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 18:23:42 -0000 Message-Id: <151411368624.24077.9923158142069110938.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> This depends on having very good and complete documentation. Currently even though msdn contains many errors their documentation is more complete. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Alexandre Julliard (julliard) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 18:28:37 -0000 Message-Id: <151411368628.24077.394288191740083507.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> Actually the Wine source code is a much better documentation of the Win32 API than MSDN... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Dan Kegel (dank) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 18:36:13 -0000 Message-Id: <151411368635.24077.3938116676337178444.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> We can do it without extra documentation, we just have to write lots of conformance tests to see how MS win32 behaves. Setting "Difficulty" field. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Detlef (winspool) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 18:40:55 -0000 Message-Id: <151411368639.24077.15279810142158940067.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> Created attachment 8519 Windows API Documentation test The Windows API Documentation test failed --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jan-wine (jan-wine) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:31:29 -0000 Message-Id: <151411368642.24077.7970707788992903311.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> Yes conformance tests are the first step. And yes the source code is good to find out what happens. But that is not a replacement for good documentation in written prose ( http://source.winehq.org/WineAPI/ ). --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Dmitry-baikal (dmitry-baikal) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 15:39:00 -0000 Message-Id: <151411368645.24077.5973254236054721101.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> What is this bug about? Is it a joke to just take a bug with number 10000? I'm tempted to close it as invalid. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Dmitry-baikal (dmitry-baikal) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 05:07:47 -0000 Message-Id: <151411368651.24077.3630904920456839196.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> Popularity is not a technical merit. Closing as invalid. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Dmitry-baikal (dmitry-baikal) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 05:08:00 -0000 Message-Id: <151411368656.24077.11906143895188457193.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> Closing. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Dan Kegel (dank) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:50:35 -0000 Message-Id: <151411368659.24077.12835083557533277182.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> Think of this bug as a milestone rather than a conventional bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Wine-z (wine-z) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 01:24:57 -0000 Message-Id: <151411368663.24077.8410400919218563081.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> *** Bug 13396 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. *** --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Dan Kegel (dank) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 03:11:45 -0000 Message-Id: <151411368670.24077.15576590891541233700.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> Still an issue with wine-1.0. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Austin English (austinenglish) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 19:53:19 -0000 Message-Id: <151411368675.24077.11140218260716754541.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> Still present in git. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: =?utf-8?q?Rafa=C5=82_Rzepecki_=28divided-mind=29?= Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:13:09 -0000 Message-Id: <151411368679.24077.971260997617364181.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> I can confirm as of 1.1.16. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Sorceror (shacklein) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 23:42:06 -0000 Message-Id: <151411368685.24077.5490993651669596919.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> I can't reproduce this bug, and haven't been able to for about 5 years or so. Does anyone have steps to reproduce? I suspect it has something to do with me deleting my Windows install from my desktop ... --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Dan Kegel (dank) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 23:46:19 -0000 Message-Id: <151411368691.24077.3105406701612506540.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> 1. Visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems 2. Note that the wedge devoted to Linux is too small to see with the naked = eye. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Sorceror (shacklein) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 03:03:46 -0000 Message-Id: <151411368695.24077.716720861195964965.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> You're such a buzzkill, Dan ;) I can see the wedge fine, but it doesn't prove much. It's very difficult, if not impossible, to accurately measure OS shares, partly due to the fact that Linux is free so you can't go by number of sales/downloads. With webservers logging user-agents, things like user-agent spoofing (User-Agent Switcher extension in Firefox, and built in to browsers like Opera and Konqueror) skew the results in favour of Windows. Even Wine Gecko will register as in the user-agent string. Regardless, this bug is not apparent *for me*. I can't speak for the rest of the world, but the alternative win32 implementation irritates me much more than Wine does :) --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Dan Kegel (dank) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 14:49:53 -0000 Message-Id: <151411368699.24077.8770837925730024159.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> Web server access logs are a pretty good measure, and they show that this bug is still definitely a problem. As you point out, non-windows systems are now capable, but that wasn't the bug; the bug is that fewer people are using them than are using Windows. And that's demonstrably still true. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Lukasz (lukp12) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:10:42 -0000 Message-Id: <151411368703.24077.1683064607675555631.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> The Bug still present under 1.1.25. But not affect my life at all. Hardcore solve (may can help someone, but can make also your life hard): - make a list of at least ten friends using win32 api - find out when they are not at home - delete MS:W$ - install linux Some of them may not see the diffrence. But after some time of using linux they may consider "hey, where is my bluescreen? And why my OS is working so fast? Where are my viruses?" etc. Than you can explain what you did. I suppose they won't install W$ again. But if The Bug returns - try again. Hope it helped. Good luck! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Zilforever (zilforever) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 10:51:36 -0000 Message-Id: <151411368708.24077.11498582622723325014.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> Im using WindowsXP because of games. Until games will be multi OS or games will work with Wine, I need both OS o= n PC :(. Question: In theory, can windows games can run faster or at least equal un= der Wine. If Wine and drivers would be optimized? --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Sorceror (shacklein) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 11:15:52 -0000 Message-Id: <151411368713.24077.665654983008728463.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> (In reply to comment #19) > Until games will be multi OS or games will work with Wine, I need both OS= on PC > :(. You may be interested in www.linuxgamepublishing.com. > Question: In theory, can windows games can run faster or at least equal = under > Wine. Yes and this does happen sometimes. In some cases, it's due to OpenGL running faster on Linux systems in general (typically thanks to nVidia's drivers) but other factors include better memory and process management in Linux compared to Windows. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: ruediix@gmail.com (ruedii) Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 04:53:30 -0000 Message-Id: <151411368717.24077.4812386282044703946.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> This is obviously an excellent milestone goal. Getting full support for Win32 standards to the vast majority of Alternative OSs will really be the first step towards this. The main disadvantage right now is that people feel safe with their applications and don't want to switch them all to switch OSs. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Olof-nord (olof-nord) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 17:02:17 -0000 Message-Id: <151411368726.24077.5627654346476248864.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> Issue still persists in latest wine (1.3.20). Have not tried the solution proposed in comment 18 though. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Hverbeet (hverbeet) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:21:00 -0000 Message-Id: <151411368730.24077.1218207924390694939.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> IMHO this should be closed WONTFIX as popularity shouldn't be a project goal purely on its own. I suppose "project goals" may be an interesting conversation to have at some point though. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Andre_H (nerv-dawncrow) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2013 15:13:04 -0000 Message-Id: <151411368735.24077.4993378464826285162.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> This might be fixed already for ARM or will be fixed for ARM at some point, just have a look what's going on with Windows RT. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: ruediix@gmail.com (ruedii) Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2013 15:53:43 -0000 Message-Id: <151411368740.24077.6908186160166583303.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> (In reply to comment #23) > IMHO this should be closed WONTFIX as popularity shouldn't be a project g= oal > purely on its own. I suppose "project goals" may be an interesting conver= sation > to have at some point though. I think we will close this as NOTABUG once Wine functions more reliably and accurately than the more popular Win32 platform, as then it will be an issue with the keyboard to chair interface, or more often the case, the controlling process of the keyboard to chair interface. With the bugs pouring in on the latest version of that competing platform, with it's developer denying the existence of said bugs and even large companies like Valve refusing to work around those bugs, our job may have just gotten a lot easier. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Shubhambtps (shubhambtps) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2015 05:00:12 -0000 Message-Id: <151411368748.24077.7862532274465457904.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> Comment on attachment 8519 Windows API Documentation test What are we supposed to do with this bug because i don't think it's a real bug. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Rebe (rebe) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 10:40:04 -0000 Message-Id: <151411368756.24077.9705539241526938670.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> The original implementation removed .hlp file support (Win32help.exe). The option to reinstall the app only works for Win <10. Wine continues to support the legacy format. Some bugs remaining e.g. #29579 #14286 #14296 #14299 --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Artyom Pozharov (artyom-pozharov) Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 21:39:52 -0000 Message-Id: <158992439270.30446.5707815990673183658.malone@chaenomeles.canonical.com> Sorry RMS, we pissed off everything! --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Jens-n-j (jens-n-j) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2022 23:19:06 -0000 Message-Id: <166874861870.12513.1832725117269411224.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> Unfortunally this is still a big issue. I heard valve is also working towards a solution with their steam deck. Maybe there is a way to fix it with combined efforts? ;-) Btw. this bug should also include the win64 implementation. --===============5161760673932583939== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Author: Sorceror (shacklein) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2022 23:22:03 -0000 Message-Id: <166874861882.12513.15844372706090233865.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> (In reply to Jens N from comment #28) > Unfortunally this is still a big issue. I heard valve is also working > towards a solution with their steam deck. Maybe there is a way to fix it > with combined efforts? ;-) >=20 > Btw. this bug should also include the win64 implementation. I think we need to wait for bug #65535 before addressing the win64 issue --===============5161760673932583939==--