[maverick-beta] Disabled menu items unreadable

This is particularly an issue when trying to read today's date in the indicator-datetime menu.

Moreover, using disabled menu entries is the only way to present information (passive) when using appindicator to implement a status icon.

+1

This is even worse in Maverick than it was in Lucid. It seems the separators (in tomboy notes, messaging, etc) are now smaller and almost the same color as the background.

This is not a problem in Lucid, IMHO. The problem has been introduced with Maverick's new version of the light themes, and (again IMHO) is a big usability issue.

+1
Especially when I use transparent popup menus - no word is readable.

Also, some apps display disabled items in the main menu.

raising the priority since its a problem with Brasero, indicator-datetime which are in main and shipped with Ubuntu.

after some discussion with Andrea, it seems that latest light-themes is way better at it. Please, reopen the bug if you don't agree to that.

Reopen it. The issue is still here with latest light-themes (Ambiance).

let's see what people think about it, the new version is fat better than the previous

Can someone please explain how do I install the latest version of light theme. I have just installed latest upgrade and haven't noticed any change at all.
I still have some kept back updates (but no theme related).

I am on 64-bit Maverick with Unity.

It's way better than before, but I'm not sure those items are visible enough yet. On older CRTs, older CCFL-backlit LCD panels (loose brightness over time), or dimmed panels (to save battery) it might still be hard to read.

Looking at these screenshots I think I actually have the latest theme.
In that case, I strongly disagree that it's any better.

Andrea, to see why it's bad I'd recommend you try Unity.
If you click on the clock applet, you won't be able see the current date which is just above the calendar.
The disabled items are only visible when looked straight and from very short distance.
Since the clock applet is located at the top right corner, people normally look at it from at an angle.

I am not attaching a screenshot since I haven't found an app yet that can make screenshots from an angle :).

The change is almost not observable. It's slightly better though not ready for release IMO. Menus with disabled items look like having big gaps. Not really appealling. The same holds for Radiance (not that pronounced).

For me this bug is not fixed.

Still unreadable with the latest light-themes.

I can fix the disabled menus (forgot to fix them), but to be honest I find the disabled menuitems enough contrasted. They are disabled, not enabled, they should be readable while keeping the attention to the enabled ones. Let's see what other designers think.
The only way I have to increase the readability is making them even darker, but then we will ruin the overall look of the theme.

The indicator datetime is behaving in the wrong way, I can't see any reason why the date should be "insensitive"

"should be readable" you say? I agree :)

They are not even close to readable. On multiple displays I've tried, and even my laptop with the brightness turned all the way up. Add the CPU Frequency monitor to your panel, and try to read the numbers displayed (enable "show frequency units"). It's not even possible to read them.

> The indicator datetime is behaving in the wrong way, I can't see any reason why the date should be "insensitive"

The indicator-datetime, Dropbox and half the desktop. Really now... This is going to be the buggiest theme that ever shipped with a Linux distro: can't resize a window because the theme will be ugly, can't read text because the theme will be ugly, can't make the menus faster because the theme will look ugly. How about making it usable too for a change?

This is another bug, has nothing to do with "disabled menuitems", please
file a new bugreport

don't you think you're exaggerating? I think so, thanks for your feedback anyway.

Andrea, you can use Dust theme behavior (when the disabled text is
*lighter*than the background). It's more easier to do it in Ambiance
because the
background is darker than in Dust.

https://code.launchpad.net/~cimi/light-themes/more-contrasted-disabled-menuitems

Branch with more contrasted disable menuitems.

Andrea,
We really appreciate the work you put into this theme and that you're responding to feedback.
However, it's hard for us to understand why you insist: you either have a very special type of display (Mac Cinema 27"?) or very sharp eyes or both :)

Many people here (and also 3 of my colleagues whom I represent) find it absolutely unreadable.

It is much better in Firefox which I believe still carries elements of Lucid theme.

very sharp eyes :) working on a small 10" 2 years-old display of my netbook :)

Do you really have problems in reading the menuitems, even in the latest branch?

I don't have any problems with them, while making them bright will expose a "blur" problem (the shadow is 1px and brighter than the menu bg, the text is brighter then bg, resulting in a blurred font at the bottom, as in Dust).
The problem is with the dark menu...

Oops, I think we commented simultaneously. Will update and report back.
Might take some time on my slow connection.

On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 21:39, Andrea Cimitan <email address hidden> wrote:
> very sharp eyes :) working on a small 10" 2 years-old display of my
> netbook :)
>
> Do you really have problems in reading the menuitems, even in the latest
> branch?
>
> I don't have any problems with them, while making them bright will expose a "blur" problem (the shadow is 1px and brighter than the menu bg, the text is brighter then bg, resulting in a blurred font at the bottom, as in Dust).
> The problem is with the dark menu...
>
> --
> [maverick-beta] Disabled menu items unreadable
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/617192
> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber
> of a duplicate bug (636169).
>
> Status in “light-themes” package in Ubuntu: Confirmed
>
> Bug description:
> Binary package hint: light-themes
>
> See attached screenshot.
>
> ProblemType: Bug
> DistroRelease: Ubuntu 10.10
> Package: light-themes 0.1.6.8 [modified: usr/share/themes/Ambiance-maverick-beta/index.theme]
> ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 2.6.35-14.20-generic 2.6.35
> Uname: Linux 2.6.35-14-generic i686
> NonfreeKernelModules: nvidia
> Architecture: i386
> Date: Fri Aug 13 05:20:42 2010
> PackageArchitecture: all
> ProcEnviron:
>  LANG=en_US.UTF-8
>  SHELL=/bin/bash
> SourcePackage: light-themes
>
> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/617192/+subscribe
>

Downloading 60MB of updates, but the only theme related update is for plimouth.
Am I doing something wrong?

Yes... the code is not in a package... it's in the branch... don't mind!

I've applied the patch and the disable menu items still are unreadable
for me, sorry.

Why the need to use a SO dark color for that? Remember that the dark
color is not only used in disabled menu items. It's used too in
Network Manager applet, for instance, as well as other places.

IMHO, we should use a color:

- darker than the enabled menu items' color, AND
- lighter than the menu background color.

The color used in Lucid's version of Ambiance theme satisfies both of
the above requisites. Please, use that.

If you notice, text in Lucid's Ambiance (and dust too) looks blurred. That's
because you're using a color brighter than the bg (and the inset is still
brighter than the bg).
For lighting/shadowing aspects, if we go with a brighter color, then we
should have a darker inset at the top of the text (while we have a bright
inset at the bottom, which works for dark text but not bright).

Comparison between current and branch.

Thanks, Fernando. The branch theme looks good for me.

The branch version is very readable on my five years old notebook with a CCFL-backlit TN-panel - even from an angle like when reading disabled me-menu items, even at the lowest brightness setting. (Not so much on my CRT, but that thing is ten years old and gotta diediedie!)

I really prefer it over the bright version current Firefox and Thunderbird menus use (see screenshot) - readable yes, but also too present for a disabled item. I guess if you'd make those darker you'll again end up with too low contrast.

@Hernando, how Network Manager applet looks to you using the patched theme?

I don't think I have control over network manager, it looks like it's using
something customized (in other words, it sents the color statically in the
source code of the applet)

also, what do you think of the disabled menuitems in RADIANCE?

All Ok in Radiance for me.

Ditto.

Radiance: basically ok for me. Personally, I'd like to see disabled menu items in Radiance slightly darker to make it less dependent on display type etc. (and yes I use a 8 years old CRT and indeed, themes look different compared to LCD panels).

Even with the branch theme, there are still some issues:
 * (Important!) Menu bar items (Bug 627796)
 * Embedded items in the menus, like in Chromium (Bug 617000)

Just updated to the latest theme.
The change is noticeable when I look attentively, but ...

I feel really ashamed that I don't understand the intricacies of color blending and such, but what I know for sure is that this theme strains my eyes hard. I don't think I'll be able to stand it for long.

By the way, why is it so important to emphasize that an item is disabled? If in doubt, one can always hover the mouse over it and the enabled items would be highlight with bright orange color.

This bug was fixed in the package light-themes - 0.1.8.1

---------------
light-themes (0.1.8.1) maverick; urgency=low

  * helps making disabled menu items more readable (LP: #617192)
 -- Andrea Cimitan <email address hidden> Mon, 27 Sep 2010 16:42:10 +0200

I think they are still not enough recognizable, using as disabled color for the text a color which is not between the enabled color and the background is a very brave choice and in my opinion is not paying off.

I can work on this for Natty