language-support-* packages depend on Firefox, Thunderbird and Open Office Writer on Ubuntu and Kubuntu

I can confirm that problem, although I tried to install language_support_zh.

And I can also confirm that it's very annoying, especially when you are on a dead slow internet connection in china, and that downloading all the firefox and thunderbird packages take several hours.

CONFIRMED! Wow, this can't be all that great. If anything I think the the firefox language packs should "SUGGEST" firefox and not depend on it.

Package: language-support-fi
Priority: optional
Section: translations
Installed-Size: 40
Maintainer: Martin Pitt <email address hidden>
Architecture: all
Version: 1:7.04+20070209
Depends: mozilla-firefox-locale-fi-fi, openoffice.org-l10n-fi, thunderbird-locale-fi, tmispell-voikko, libenchant-voikko, openoffice.org-voikko, openoffice.org-hyphenation
Recommends: language-pack-fi
Filename: pool/main/l/language-support-fi/language-support-fi_7.04+20070209_all.deb
Size: 2406
MD5sum: e33243d413f2a3187cae057266230fed
SHA1: 92ac5eb5376bfceb8bc085a25e383c0b65f4cf62
SHA256: d99bb98afa77bcb39f62858becf7ef85afca5cd1a53bb907e3a75e5ce5ce9de4
Description: metapackage for Finnish language support
 This metapackage depends on all packages that provide native language
 support for applications in Ubuntu (like spell
 checkers, dictionaries, OpenOffice and Mozilla locale packages,
 etc.).
 .
 If you also want your applications and the desktop to be translated,
 please additionally install language-pack-fi.
 .
 Language: Finnish
Bugs: mailto:<email address hidden>
Origin: Ubuntu

============

Package: mozilla-firefox-locale-fi-fi
Priority: optional
Section: web
Installed-Size: 748
Maintainer: Ubuntu Core Developers <email address hidden>
Original-Maintainer: Cesar Martinez Izquierdo <email address hidden>
Architecture: all
Source: mozilla-firefox-locale-all
Version: 2.0.0.1ubuntu-1
Depends: firefox | language-support-fi
Conflicts: firefox (<< 1.99), firefox (>> 2.0.999)
Filename: pool/main/m/mozilla-firefox-locale-all/mozilla-firefox-locale-fi-fi_2.0.0.1ubuntu-1_all.deb
Size: 172406
MD5sum: 253cfd36f05c9d2e9039e255ee37feaa
SHA1: e7c122d0ea870afbbb1c6d019e2d2e76363a6d82
SHA256: aa180e4ef2c23769c03b4caacc1962c7866752367244f26f520b377d5653625a
Description: Mozilla Firefox Finnish language/region package
 Menu and message resource and region property package
 for Mozilla Firefox (Finnish language, fi-FI).
 .
 Homepage: http://www.mozilla.org
Bugs: mailto:<email address hidden>
Origin: Ubuntu

=============

I just emailed the kubuntu-devel list asking if it is possible to switch the depends on the firefox and thunderbird locales to suggest for thunderbird and firefox. This would prevent both from being installed.

> Package: language-support-fi
...
> Depends: mozilla-firefox-locale-fi-fi, openoffice.org-l10n-fi, thunderbird-locale-fi, tmispell-voikko,
> libenchant-voikko, openoffice.org-voikko, openoffice.org-hyphenation
> Recommends: language-pack-fi
...
> Package: mozilla-firefox-locale-fi-fi
...
> Depends: firefox | language-support-fi

Hm. A circular dependency. And how Firefox is a dependency alternative to language-support-fi???

Anyway, what I *would like* to see is that the language installation thing would create
the locale specific language support metapackage on the fly based on what packages are
installed to the system and just install that. This would work automatically right on all
Ubuntu variants.

That kind of a package would be trivial to create:
  if dpkg -s firefox; then
     depends += mozilla-filrefox-locale-$locale
  fi
etc.

And as to the versioning of that package, that package version needs just to increase
each time, it doesn't need to be tied to anything else.

Once a language support is installed once, it could have an option that it checks e.g.
monthly whether new packages are installed which need language support and ask
user whether they should be installed.

Alternatively solution would be an apt hook that checks new packages against a list
of packages which need locale specific language pack and which would install the selected
locale(s) package for them automatically.

I think both of these solutions are superior (work better for the user) than just fiddling
with fixed metapackage dependencies.

> Once a language support is installed once, it could have an option that it checks e.g.
> monthly whether new packages are installed which need language support and ask
> user whether they should be installed.

It's bad idea. If I install new software I want it to be in language I specified with the first start of this app, not in a month.

> Alternatively solution would be an apt hook that checks new packages against a list
> of packages which need locale specific language pack and which would install the selected
> locale(s) package for them automatically.

IMHO it would be the best option in the long term.

First, the mozilla-firefox-locale-* will disappear soon, since they are for Firefox 2, and with Firefox 3 we'll get the translations directly in the language packs.

Also, all dependencies are actually designed in a way to *not* pull in the application itself:

  Package: openoffice.org-l10n-fi
  Depends: openoffice.org-common (>= 1:2.4.0~rc2) | language-support-fi

  Package: thunderbird-locale-de
  Depends: thunderbird | language-support-de

and so on, thus the oo-l10n-* packages can be installed *without* openoffice itself being installed. The alternative dependency will make sure that installing l-support-* won't install the application, but installing thunderbird-locale-fr will properly pull in thunderbird itself if you don't have the French language-support package installed.

Not an ubuntu-meta bug

Not a kubuntu-meta bug.

Ah, I found the culprit:

  Package: openoffice.org-help-fr
  Depends: openoffice.org-l10n-fr, openoffice.org-writer

Those must become "Depends: openoffice.org-l10n-fr, openoffice.org-writer | language-support-fr", or simply "Depends: openoffice.org-l10n-fr".

On Thu, Apr 03, 2008, Martin Pitt wrote:
> Also, all dependencies are actually designed in a way to *not* pull in
> the application itself:
>
> Package: thunderbird-locale-de
> Depends: thunderbird | language-support-de

Ah, for me the problem is that aptitude decides it wants both of them. I
can manually mark thunderbird as not to be installed without breaking
the dependency resolution but by default it selects an imperfect
solution that installs it. So it's not a bug in the dependencies so much
as a UI problem in aptitude: typically, users trust the presented
solution.

I believe that this problem has been fixed in OpenOffice in Hardy so I am marking it as Fix Released.

It now shows up as:

Package: openoffice.org-help-fr
Depends: openoffice.org-l10n-fr, openoffice.org-writer | language-support-translations-fr

In fact, installing Chinese language support after-the-fact on an English language Ubuntu still manages to install thunderbird on its own...

Not that I have anything against thunderbird...

language-support-translations-zh depends on thunderbird-locale-zh-(cn|tw). They depend on thunderbird OR language-support-zh, so language-support-zh itself satisfies the dependency.

Which package are you installing to get Chinese language support, and which program (apt-get, aptitude, synaptic... are you using to install it)?

I used System->Administration->Language Support, which I think uses
Synaptic to do its work.

On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 10:36 PM, Mary Gardiner <email address hidden> wrote:
> language-support-translations-zh depends on thunderbird-locale-
> zh-(cn|tw). They depend on thunderbird OR language-support-zh, so
> language-support-zh itself satisfies the dependency.
>
> Which package are you installing to get Chinese language support, and
> which program (apt-get, aptitude, synaptic... are you using to install
> it)?
>
>
>
> --
> language-support-* packages depend on Firefox, Thunderbird and Open Office Writer on Ubuntu and Kubuntu
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/114503
> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber
> of the bug.
>

see also bug 220817 (about openoffice).